Paul Byrne - Navigating MAHA: The Future of Fitness in American Healthcare

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to future of fitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. Since launching in 2012, they've consistently had one mission: facilitate the best customer experiences with the most cutting-edge solution for franchises, studios, gyms, and boxes. At its core, TeamUp is a tech solution for businesses looking to unlock their next phase of growth with the most reliable partner in technology on the market. Spanning over 4,000 clients in 40 plus countries, TeamUp has a vast global network with its roots right here in North America. Whether it's AI, new features, new partnerships, and new markets, TeamUp's sites are set on raising the bar of the industry to enable their customers to perform and operate at the highest level locally, nationally, and over speed. Powered by the most reliable AP guys on the market, you can deliver premium customer experiences and scale-your-fittest enterprise with the strongest technological infrastructure our industry has to offer. Empower your staff, engage your members, and unlock your next chapter of growth with software design for you. Learn more at goteemup.com. That is G-O-T-E-A-M-U-P.com. Hey friends, this is Eric Malzone, and this episode of the Future of Fitness is brought to you by the Podcast Collective. Since our inception in 2023, we have emerged as the fitness, health, and wellness industry's premier podcast placement agency. We're honored to work with many of the industry's most prominent technologists, thought leaders, startup founders, and business executives. Why? Because they recognize that being on podcasts is the most effective way to authentically connect with their specific target audiences and rapidly grow a lucrative professional network. From podcast placements to speaking engagements, go-to-market strategies to investor relations, and media kits to press releases, the podcast collective brings a level of professionalism and deep industry expertise that can only be achieved by spending decades in the trenches. If you are a startup founder, business executive, emerging thought leader, or simply a savvy operator that understands the power of authentic media, learn more at podcastcollective.io and feel free to book a 30-minute strategy session with yours truly. Traditional media is dying on the vine. Podcasts are rising quickly to fill the void. Do not miss the boat. That's podcastcollective.io. All right, we are live. Paul Byrne, welcome back.

Hey, good morning, Eric. Good to be back.

Yeah, it's it's always a pleasure. Always a pleasure to have you. And the uh material that we've kind of isolated to discuss today is really important. I want to give it a lot of time and depth on it because you know we're gonna talk about Maha, we're gonna talk about some tariffs, we're gonna talk about a lot of things. And from with your background, which I'll let you explain here in a minute, you know, it's it's it's a very you have a very valued opinion and insights, both you and the whole team at Harrison Company, with what you guys do. So let's uh I don't want to tease anybody anymore. Let's get into it. Maybe you just give us your your background again, Paul, and then we'll we'll dive right in.

Sure, sure. Quick recap. Pretty much my entire career spent in the fitness business from from late 70s, but most of it with pre-corps, a very young pre-corps. I started there with one product company, $20 million, head of sales and marketing. Uh was there for 15 years net role, 15 years as CEO. Grew it from that 20 million to about 450 million, and and I think one of the more respected brands in the industry. I've retired about 10 years ago, joined Harrison Co., which is an investment bank headed up by Bill Harrison, who is a good friend and actually handled the transaction when we sold Pre-Corps to Amor Sports back in whatever that was, oh one, oh two. Anyway, I just joined his uh company after retiring. And so it's a whole different perspective now from being somebody who was really fixed on operations and just in that world of building a company to one now that helps companies grow, either find financing or sell themselves if that's that's what they want to do. But that operational part of my background is really great for analyzing new companies and positioning them favorably when you take them to market. So that's my background. Lots of interest just in the industry, where it's going, high-level drivers, those kinds of things. As you know, I've written a couple of papers already. We wrote the first paper, right? I think in the industry on GLP ones back in, I think that was like 2022. We even heard you were mocked for that, saying it was gonna grow the industry. We saw how that turned out. And then another paper on the explosion and strength training, which was very favorably uh received. We sent out over 500 copies of each of those uh to industry people that have requested it. So yeah, now we're talking about something we haven't written a paper on yet, Maha. But I think it's it's really an exciting uh subject, one that's gonna be a super po positive, high-level driver of the industry. And uh yeah, let's see where it goes. Kick me off with a good question.

Yeah. Well, it it is really exciting, and it's also controversial, right? Just like anything uh nowadays is you know, people have very strong opinions. Uh and I I think one of the biggest struggles, and you and I were just talking about this and recording, is people A, don't have a lot of time anymore to personally research these things, right? And B, we don't really know where to get trusted information about these things. So it's like, you know, opinions fly and we tend to hear it from a neighbor or a friend or a family member, and then that kind of solidifies our opinion, and then blah, blah, blah. And then we're not really having good discussions anymore about the opportunity. And I think that's what I want here is like it's when people listen to this, I want you to just take your political affiliation aside. Think about the health of our country, the health of your children, the health of our industry. And let's look at it from that perspective. And I think we can have a really nice open conversation about where this can go for us. So let's start with that. I mean, you you mentioned something to me that that made me do some more research on this, was like the key players in in the Maha movement, the make America healthy again. And we're seeing a lot of I did a recent interview that was published with Aflatech uh unscripted, along with Eddie Hertzman. We interviewed Anthony Geisler, and you know, he talked about his opinions on that, which I thought was really interesting. And one of the things he mentioned was like, we're seeing a lot of also private industry players come into the political sphere, not necessarily getting paid to do it, but but it seems like they feel compelled that now is the time where we can finally course correct, you know, how our our country's health is going because it's it's not good. So maybe let's start with that. Like, what what do you know about the health of our country at this point? And how can you describe that to our audience?

Well, it's not good to work. It's not good. You have 60% of the country that has chronic diseases, right? So 70% is overweight or obese, you know. Let's just start there. Yeah, it's not good. And that's why these appointees I think are all super favorable because the this is what they're focused on. You know, Badacharya, Maro Key, RFK Jr. What do you think about him? He's he's all about getting people healthy, kind of root cause analysis. Where does it come from? Lack of exercise, poor diet. That's that's it in an in a nutshell.

And when you look at the Maha movement, like what are what are some of the primary initiatives? Like, you know, if they I know they've laid out some goals and things they want to accomplish. And right now, I believe, you know, as we're recording, they're still in kind of their assessment and reporting phase. But what do you think are are you know maybe the the three top three or four big directives that we have?

Yeah, I don't know if we're down to directives yet beyond what RFK Junior did with dyes and banning some of those supplements. But you can certainly predict where it's going based on the background of each of these players, I think. And if you look at Bhadacharya, I think you'll see much more on the research side, he's National Institutes of Health. He's he's gonna want to figure out cause and effect a little more clearly. So he put programs together. So I think NIH will fund on some of that. Whereas uh Makari is more focused on the where he's uh FDA, he's he's more focused on the food side of things. And if you look at his background, I can't quote precisely what he said, but something to the effect that the food pyramid was the biggest uh scam ever perpetrated on Americans by the government. And it's his opinion that it's that food pyramid that has led us to where we are today. I mean, if you don't you know what the food food pyramid is, right? But it's really based on no no real science. So it was the food pyramid that said fats are bad. So we took fats out of everything. As we took it out, like I'll use an example, yogurt. You take out fat, what do you do to replace the calories and give it a little more flavor? Because flavor is carried in fat, right? Primarily. Give it a little more flavor, sugar, high fructose, corn chip, syrup, or sucrose, tons of calories, empty calories. So that's that's taking place throughout our entire uh food chain, right? So way, way, way too much too much sugar, too little flat fat, totally unbalanced. And it's led to like the common feeling that, well, fat's gonna give me coronary artery disease. Not true. High levels of flesh food. No, it's it's it's inflammation that causes that. What causes inflammation? Chronic disease causes inflammation.

It is, you know, I look back in my own life, Paul, and I was, you know, a child, a product of the 80s and 90s. And I was I was a chubby little kid. And a lot of it was due to, I just distinctly remember everything in our cupboards going to fat-free, right? Like, oh, as long as it was fat-free, I can eat as much entomens. People will laugh if they know what that is, like, as I want to. Yeah, that's delicious.

That's right.

But it's just loaded with sugar, but it was fat-free. And it was like, well, I can eat as many bagels as I want because they're fat-free as long as I use fat-free cream cheese. And it was like all these things that got real chubby. And if I didn't have sports, and this was all the way through college too, even as you know, in our athletics department, we were told, you know, hey, low-fat diet. So we go to the dining hall, we get, you know, same thing as like bagels and chicken breasts, and but just loaded up with cheap carbs and no fat. And, you know, I have to imagine that also played, you know, some role in performance as sports. But, you know, if I didn't have if I didn't have sports, I would probably be obese by now. I'll just say that, because that was how I learned nutrition. So I'm grateful for that. But it was, it was very much, I just remembered so distinctly, it was everything was like fat-free, no fat, low fat, right? And everybody thought, you know, my dad had a series of heart attacks during that time too. And I have to imagine it's because of the nutrition that we thought we were doing the right thing, right? So anyway, let's talk about like some of these players and and uh maybe we start with Marty McCurry, the the FDA guy. Like, tell me about how that what that role is from your research and and how he's taking a different approach.

Well, the role as head of FDA, yeah. Like I said, his his approach is going to be much more science-based. I think one of his key, not initiatives, but tenants, is to get the industry out of the FDA. So he doesn't want the food companies on advisory committees. He wants scientists on the advisory committee. He wants to understand cause and effect as much as he can, where where to put, where to focus, what to change. So that's probably his number one thing. He believes industry is is a quote bad influence on on the FDA, and they need to be more independent and more scientific with science that's repeatable. Somebody else can take that same experiment and repeat it, and you'll get the same outcomes. So it's not based on opinion, it's based on science, it's based on facts.

And I I mean if you're going to look at like the last 20 years of the FDA, I mean, is that the major faulting point for them? Was that food companies were too involved and and pharmaceutical companies were too involved? I mean, that seems to be the issue.

I mean, it's a lot of and and the and the latter being the bigger problem. The uh pharmaceutical companies. I was reading somewhere, just heard heard this on a podcast, that the legacy quote legacy media, so you know, we're talking about ABC, FBC, Fox and S NBC, over 50% of the advertising. It's pharmaceutical companies. Five zero. And so that one of the things I think McCorready wants to get out is is to start to prohibit advertising of drugs on TV. Now, whether it gets away with that or not, who knows? Because that's a lot of advertising dollars that would that would go away. But I think there's a concern that the drug companies are you know driving behavior, whether it's healthy or unhealthy, and there's there's truth to that.

It is uh it's outrageous. I mean, if you sit and watch a sports game, so I I like to watch football, American football for our European listeners. Like the every time it's like, I don't even know what this drug is for, like this commercial that I'm watching. But all I know is the side effects are freaking awful. Yeah, you know, and all I see is someone dancing with a bunch of other people dancing through the street, and you're like, What is this? Like, how how does this even get get out there? And how is it even does it work? It must work, otherwise, they wouldn't do it, right? Uh, but isn't there something to like there's only a few countries in the world that allow this level of of advertising for phone? The only country. I saw a little bit in Canada. I saw a little bit in Canada. I was up, I was up there a couple weeks ago and I was watching the TV, but I saw a little bit, I think, uh maybe Australia as well. But yeah, I think we're it's very limited.

Yeah. And I think if you if you Googled or whatever research you want to use to look at those diseases and so what percentage of the population actually has that disease, it's I guarantee you most of those are under well under 10%.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So Jay Bodacari Bodacaria?

Badacharya.

Badacharya. Thank you. Batacharya.

Yeah.

So the NIH, I think there's a lot of people who don't really fully understand, like myself, what the NIH does and what that role is. So maybe you could, you know, shed some light on that one.

Yeah, it's primarily a uh research inst institute. I think they're but they have pretty pretty significant budget. I think it's about 50, 50 billion dollar budget. A lot of that money is deployed externally to universities and research houses. And a much smaller portion is research actually takes place at the NIH. I think that's about 10 or 15 percent of the budget. But yeah, anything having to do, obviously, with with healthy living. I think if if you look at what they invest in, number one is cancer, understanding cancers that's the primary. Secondary to that, I think, is is diabetes. Third is heart disease. So yeah, they're responsible for short and long-term research into all of those aspects of disease and healthy living.

And what is Jay, do you think, what changes is he hoping to bring to that now that he's at the helm?

He again, he's very much uh a solid science guy. Like he wants well-designed experiments, repeatable. He's looking for bigger leaps in understanding right now. I think one of his criticisms has been the NIH, you're just doing this incremental funding of stuff we we already know about. You know, we're gonna learn a little bit more, but it's it's really not worth it. It's not worth the time, it's not worth the money. We need we need big advances. Big advances in fat science will result in big advances in health.

Yeah, interesting. And then last question I'm kind of just setting the table for for our industry here is like in the health and human services, that oversees it all. Is that correct? Is that generally speaking? That's correct. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So the question that most people are thinking, like, cool. All right. So we have, you know, this uh these initiatives that sound amazing, like we're gonna get, you know, really gonna start to tackle the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem our country have is our is our health. You know, the the sheer numbers uh financially are staggering, what they'll do to to the national debt, what they'll do to our healthcare system, everything. It's like it's now this is a very legitimate immediate concern that we need to address. It's urgent. So for our industry, like what do you think all this means? What what should we be paying attention to and where could we be taking action to play a bigger role?

Yeah. Well, let's let's first start maybe you know, another 10,000 feet up or 20,000 feet up for the industry. And and and I think that it's clear to me that this is like a huge operation. You put this on the heels of COVID, which really sensitized the country to how important healthy living is, right? I think what's the percentage of people who died died from COVID had at least one comorbidity? It was like 90 percent like off the charts, right? So people were old and fat and had diabetes. Hate to say it, but that's all true, right? So, but still, COVID sensitized people to the need for a healthier lifestyle. So already have that. We're seeing that rebound in people coming back to clubs and all that's happening. Now you put on top of that this Maha movement where they're they're making the government, this is the government's agenda, healthy living, right? This is this is massive. I mean, this is like when I was growing up, you know, president President Kennedy, President Council on Physical Fitness. I remember in school, like we had the do the shuttlecock rubber. You were tested every year. Fitness was a big deal, all because of John F. Kennedy. He's really the father of our industry, actually. So it's interesting that RFK Jr. is the one that kickstarted now, or resuscitated is probably a better word. But yeah, so I think I think it's a big opportunity. And how that manifests itself, I think really depends on where you're where you're playing. Because for people that are already going to the gym, that's that sort of thing. I can see that people are already committed to healthy living, may be convinced to do more. They may be convinced to buy more supplements, for instance, which I think supplements are one of the areas that's gonna benefit from this, you know, expanding their approach to a healthy lifestyle. I I think there are gonna be opportunities at the at the youth level. And and that's the area that really needs to be addressed because you were you were talking earlier. Okay, so you you grew up, you ate terrible food, you were fat, but you worked out and that was your that was your savior. Unfortunately, now people don't work out, they eat worse foods than you ate, and they're obese or overweight at a very, very, very young age. They don't work out, there's no gym in school anymore. You know, sports teams, if you don't make the select team when you're you know two months out of the womb, you know, forget it. You know, you're not gonna make any teams, there's no place to play, there's the playgrounds aren't open. So it's that's gonna be an area of opportunity. How it gets addressed, I don't know. I know that um how do you pronounce it, uh Oz? Is it Memet? Memet.

I think it's Oz.

Now he's head of the Medicare and Medicaid, interestingly enough. But one of his one of his endeavors, I know that he funds, is a, I think it's called Youth Corps. I'd have to double check. I think it's called Youth Youth Corps, and it's sending young ambassadors out to schools, getting people interested and exciting about a healthy lifestyle. So he's he's getting 17, 18-year-old kids, they go out and they they volunteer and they go to schools and they talk about it, and they get kids excited about their bodies and how great it could be to be fit and how good it feels and and the importance of it to live a long, healthy, prosperous life. So that's a start, a small start, but I think that's an area now should that should receive a lot of attention. My one concern would be you know, have people make money on it, because this this is really what people most people are capitalists, and they they're gonna try up, they're gonna they're gonna migrate the opportunities that are gonna be profitable.

And that was like that got me right to my next question, which is you know, you see, I agree there's gonna be opportunities in, you know, I don't know if it's through education. You know, I think of people that I know personally as like uh Juliet and Kelly Starrett have been very involved in you know kids' movement and you know, trying to get uh standing desks and things like that in schools. And uh Jeff and Mickey Martin from Brand X method have done a great job of educating coaches on how to work with youth and developing youth programs. It's a hard place to make money. Yep. And uh, you know, that's that's a concern is like how do we actually and to motivate, you know, the the private industry networks that we have, you know, is like how how do we get there? How do we get it where it's actually monetizing? And does that mean you know, federal grants and money that way? I I have no idea, but do you have any theories of what that could look like?

In terms of the industry itself like let's talk about youth industry.

Let's talk about youth fitness and health specifically, yeah.

Okay, yeah. So youth fitness itself, as as we just discussed, I think is one of is one of the more difficult ones.

Yeah.

Just because as you as you point out, like how do you make money? But I I think one sort of obvious path would be that parents of memes will focus on on their kids whether they're athletes or not. So I could see I could envision places that aren't really training kids to be you know the next major league shortstop or three-point shooter or whatever. They just want to. kid to be fit and young. So I can see programs that do that after after school programs of some kind for for sure. Because it's either that or you go back and you fund the stuff in in school. And I'd say that's unlikely. It's to me it's preferable because that way everybody participates regardless of socioeconomic status. But start somewhere, start where obviously money could be made.

And as I said, I think parents of or of the children of parents that are successful and have the means, I see parents funding these kinds of these kinds of and there's uh one of the things I I've noticed over the past few years is, you know, in the wellness category, just this skyrocketing amount of products, uh like consumer products, food products that are all healthy, right, organic, uh environmentally friendly, all these things. So like the the CPG market is really taking a hold and and and getting to it. I mean a lot of these products are really expensive, you know, let's be honest. Like you know, like but what you and I probably know have been in this industry so long is like good health and fitness isn't expensive. And you don't really have to pay for it. Like if you just stay more active you walk right do you lift a little bit of weights you eat generally healthy whole foods right you get enough sleep you focus on your community all these things that we know like it's hard to make money on that it really is. Like people will pay for specific things people like like me and you probably like a nice gym. We like home fitness equipment you know I like my aura ring but that's that's not the general public so it's like how do we as an industry or do we even do we're built on passion. I was just having this conversation industry is built on passion right but passion only lasts so long we got to have profit after a while otherwise it's unsustainable. So it's like yeah how do how do we start to work ourselves in create really valuable solutions that we can also make money on or do we just kind of stick to what we have and just hope that we increase percentage by percentage every year into the total available market of who goes to gyms like I don't know that's a huge question Paul. I know you're not an Oracle but like what what is what do you think about this stuff?

Oracle Oracle Delphi no I agree I agree with what you're saying then totally totally agree. But it's it's an interesting sort of incongruity because on the one hand as you're you're talking about look this doesn't take much when you get a pure pair of sneakers a couple dumbbell tiarettes but you're you're you're good to go. You're fine. But what are we doing? Like you're saying well we're eating uh we're eating with protein creatinine greens gazillion other supplements all of which are heat to break it to you of dubious or unknown value most of them like there's there's really little to no science uh around a lot of that stuff and and if you look at how I don't know if it's the Center for Disease Control or if I think it's the FDA a lot of these things fall under this grash GRA are generally generally regarded as safe. So they're not going to hurt you but there's not a lot of science that says this is great. Right? So you I mean you go you you look at all these recovery studios and drips and all I mean there's little to no valid science around any of that frankly some of it can even be dangerous if you're taking IVs of vitamins especially fat soluble vitamins you know they can become toxic and so I'm not saying there's a big risk there but again of of duty dubious value. All the supplements you take for the most part of do dubious to little bag. So then you know how big that industry is 50 billion. It's 50 billion I mean it's it's it's bigger than the health club health club memberships are what two 43 billion something like that 50 billion supplements so that's a huge incentive you know if you're walking in to you know I belong to LI Fitness super well-run company they have their supplements there for sale they know they don't push them but they sell them uh the lifetime is already said that's going to be one of their next big building blocks supplements so there's not a lot of proof of efficacy around any of that today's episode of the future of fitness is proudly brought to you by EGI a vertically integrated market leader in the fitness and health industry with an incredible vision transforming healthcare from repair to prevention I've been a huge fan of eGym's team and technology for years now and I can tell you that their commitment to innovation is unparalleled within our industry.

Here's what makes EGIM so special. They partner with companies to improve employee health by providing access to fitness and health facilities. Then they equip those facilities with cutting edge smart gym equipment and digital solutions. The benefits are clear companies see reduced healthcare costs and increased productivity while fitness facilities benefit from a growing engaged membership base. What really excites me is EGM's smart fitness ecosystem. By combining their strength equipment with AI powered software and their corporate wellness platform Wellpast they are leading the shift to proactive preventative health this isn't just AI for show this is the real deal.

If you're interested in learning more about EGM and how they're transforming healthcare through exercise visit eGim.com that is eGYM.com That's one of the risks actually with the the Maha group with Batacharya and and and Makari you know on the one hand you know they're looking for like a broader approach to health and well-being the but on the other they're scientists and they're saying well does this stuff really work is this is it efficacious so they could they could put more more pressure on supplement companies to prove because because now right now the onus is on the the supplement company to say it's safe and manufactured to uh safe specifications. Fox in charge of the proverbial in halves.

Well there isn't uh you know it's not like they're getting double blind placebo studies done on this stuff, right? And because they don't have the time and the money really it's not worth it. I mean I was going to say what I was hearing is that Paul's we should start a future fitness supplement line and maybe we waited out another year and just gonna see what happens. Because I always joke about that I'm like man if I was really if I was really focused on making money and maybe I should be because I I would definitely get into the supplement basis it just seems like that there's a lot of quick quick fast dollar.

It is some some things do work. I mean you know I listened to to a tea and Huberman and and they're really solid science based guys. And you know there's certain things that they recommend that that have been shown to work in some fashion like magnesium like these for sleep or glycine same thing. So there there are supplements that have been shown to be helpful. So I'm not painting this with super broad brush that none of this works it it does. It's just as you point out it's really hard to do a double blind especially on humans. Like what do you what do you do do you I mean do you put them in a cage and make sure so right so if right off the bat if it's self-reporting hey I I did this over the forget they don't know yeah I did it I took two I can't remember so it's just not solid solid science. I mean it's sort of directional but it's it's not it it's not the gold standard.

So uh let me ask you this so if you were an operator I mean you mentioned LA fitness right let's use that example because it's easy is there anything that you would be repositioning or changing right now to align yourself better with the initiatives of Maha and kind of what the government is doing.

You know I think one of the outcomes that we should all be looking for is more people joining the the party right so Maha gets out there the importance of healthy living as we talk you know parents might start sending kids so so there's this high level of awareness. So for people that haven't quote joined the joined the party yet they're they're wanting they're gonna want to go to some place that's packaged it nice and tightly for them here's our program here's our four week introduction this is what it looks like we're gonna you know I I think like assess personally assessment should be part of that movement assessment uh you know maybe body fat body comp analysis some some baseline you can build from and then sell it four week programs six six week programs show the difference and I think once people see that they're making progress they're much more likely to stick with it just hey yeah let's let's make it free on Medicare like I I go to the gym I'm there with you know early in the afternoon or late in the morning when all the other I call them Q-tips like like me are there and and I watch they you know most of them have no freaking idea what they're doing you know they're just walk they're just wandering around yeah chit chatting yeah chit chatting you know that meanwhile the you know the 17 year old girls are doing deadlifts yeah I love that that that's my young young women just are just crushing it in the way it's yeah yep so anyway that that that would be my my recommendation yeah uh you know I at a macro level my sense and my my intuition is is saying that we are fitness is evolving and becoming a a specific player in this health and wellness market right you I mean you know the difference between the size of the wellness market trillions right the fitness market billions do you think A do you do you think that's happening?

Do you think we're kind of getting swallowed into or actually merging into the wellness market? And then if so like what do you think that means for our industry and how do you think it'll change over the next 10 years? What do you think it'll look like in 10 years?

So we say merging with the wellness market. Yeah so like things like so let's let's let's define the well what's defined wellness market. Well what are the components?

Yeah I think wellness or maybe maybe I should say health like you're looking a lot of like YMCA now has a chief health officer right Dr. Gloria Winters and she's looking to be at the forefront of healthcare with maybe like actually having in-house or partnerships with medical professionals where it's like hey we're actually health like yeah we do fitness we do weight training we do aerobic classes but we're actually monitoring your health for producing healthier health outcomes for our clients I think that's a significant change you know lifetime and what Jeff Swefel's doing with the Miora program. You know sure that's framed as longevity, but it's it's health it's preventive health, right? So I think we're seeing that step being made. I mean is that something in the research in the conversations you have do you think that's a very legitimate thing?

Well I still think it's it's kind of fuzzy around what is quote quote wellness. And and I think you you kind of trying to get it down to just basic building blocks and correct me if I'm wrong but I I think we're talking about exercise we're talking about nutrition and we're talking we're talking about sleep and we're talking about mental well being yes I think those are the components now under under fitness you know you can drop the covery and a bunch of those other things so you know if you're like you're diagramming a sentence that would be a subplot to that. But so so yes to answer your question is emerging absolutely and and I and I think you're seeing things pop up like like function functional medicine. You don't read a lot about functional medicine but if you do if you if you'll dig into it you see there's companies like uh that's I think it's called Parsley Health out there and they're they're all about looking at root cause analysis to diseases and ailments which makes sense because what would we do now if we if we have we have a disease an ailment we go to the doctor we take care of the symptoms for the most for the most part that's what we do like shut down whatever that symptom is stop it. But you don't you don't always get to the root cause especially when you get to things like gut health can really drive a lot of issues with inflammation and others that if you just you know take some prilocet that's not gonna do it that's not going to take care of it. So again I think it's back to what are the components and how do we address them. But if you look at uh Biora and what Jeff's doing that's you know it's that's really cool stuff. But that's for the talk about the upper 1% right so you know a lot of us join the industry because we we believe in healthy living and having it reach as many people as possible. Now that's not to disparage what Jeff's doing that's fantastic and that's a wonderful company. But I think what Maha presents is the opportunity to get more and more people in even if it's at a very basic level because again back to what you you mentioned earlier like this pretty simple stuff. Like let's get you into moving let's get you eating right let's get you feeling better about yours about about yourself let's make sure you get you you know those eight hours of sleep go out and buy an order ring that's it that's it that's all you that's all you really need. But as we talked earlier to get these people in that have not done it you have to package it so it's so it's easy. And again I take a baseline get them in measure them put a structured program together teach them teach them how it's the dull teach a man to fish.

Yeah I was I was going to say education is so critical and just making it approachable and meeting I mean this is all stuff we know already as an industry you got to meet people where they are and I think what's different now is as the Maha movement and all these what I call like consumer wellness uh influencers, right? So the the Hubermans, the Gary Brecas, the Dr. Gabriel Lyon, Dr. Stacey Sims, like all these people are out there and they're becoming bigger and bigger names. Like they're they're big time names now. And I think that education is is closing the gap a little bit of how far we have to go to meet people where they are. I think people are generally interested. And I think there's more people educating themselves and I think it's really important. I remember you know when I was coaching I would do uh at my gym I would have every once in a while once a quarter we would do a paleo nutrition challenge right because that was that was my indoctrination I was indoctrined into to paleo at the time a full believer. But I was I would always start with like okay well who knows what a vegetable is like this sounds ridiculous but this is really the conversations I have in front of people. I'm like I know that okay who knows what a macro is a macronutrient and almost no hands would go up like okay great now I know where to start and I think we have to assume like it sounds sad sad to say but most people have a a kindergarten level education when it comes to their nutrition their lifestyle factors. Even I was you know on a recent trip with a bunch of old friends and we were talking about sleep. And I was like how much sleep do you guys get like I don't know five six hours I'm like you realize if you get seven you're gonna feel astronomically better. If you get eight you're gonna be an absolute all-star that day they're like really it was like oh yeah yeah like it'll change your life and you know once I got a text message from a friend recently who's on that trip and he's like dude I got seven hours of sleep every night this week and I can do anything. I was like yeah it's it's that simple. So I think I don't know how to get the education out there, but I think there's a lot of very smart people. I think podcasting is leading the way for many but I think people are searching it out and I think that's probably one of the coolest trends that's hard to measure but I think it's yeah I I agree with I I agree with that analysis.

I think that right now the people listening to Huberman and Acheeta, those kinds of podcasts is people already interested in kind of self-select for that and when they want to dig even more deeply and you know I've got a few friends whose names I I won't uh disclose on this podcast because you know some of them but like longevity is one of their main foci right and just I want to live as long and as healthy as possible which fantastic feel exactly exactly the same way. But most of these fun most of these friends are already pretty pretty darn healthy and have plenty of dough and can get whatever they want. I'm gonna get a red light therapy you know go for it eight sleep I'm there they can afford all that it's it's so they're they're listening to those podcast back to your original point. How do you get the the message to those other people that we want to bring into the full of healthy living and I'm not sure I have the answer there other than you know you point out meet quote meet and where they are so I think if from a marketing point of view you you understand that demographic who are these people it was associated socioeconomic status more importantly how do they consume information? You know we did that paper on strength and the thing that blew me away was what was driving the whole huge move towards strength in retrospect not very surprising at all but podcasts but number number one TikTok I mean five by far influencers.

So is it babes who lift or something like Matthews or hash some of those like billions of hash unbelievable.

Yeah an influencer and the the the scary thing about influencers is you can be an influencer and not not know what the hell you're talking right you're just you're just you're an influencer. You're good in front of a good in front of a camera you know got some good music all with whatever it is you're spewing and there you go.

Yeah you got some nice Lulu and you you're good.

And there you go. But but back to the original point understanding how people consume their information that's how you that's good.

Yeah yeah you know one of the things I I want to ask you is like we the fit act right that's been around for a very long time. I don't know what to say about it anymore. I feel like it keeps every once in a while to hear about it. I'm like oh it's still out there. All right. Now what do you think is different about what we've tried in the past and what is is happening now? I mean obviously it seems like the political will has has lined up in a very congruous way right so what where where where gives you new hope at this point versus what we've heard of the last few decades?

Oh I think this would be the most advantageous time to try to push the Fed Act through I mean no question. I mean that you look at us right so he heads up Medicare Medicare in in Medicaid big big believer in in healthy living fitness I can see him saying Medicare is going to cover gym memberships all all baby boomers. Come on down right I mean I wouldn't be surprised now it's unfortunate I think they're they're doing the budget almost as we speak and you know whether they get the Fit Act bolt that on or not I don't know. But like I said I these are the most favorable times ever. Because before let's face it Ursa was swimming upstream there against a pretty strong current because you know a lot of people looked at it and just said you know we're just helping that industry they want more members they want us to pay for it. Bullshit we're not going to do that. Now completely different narrative how important this is what a big component is we're trying to attack this this is like a net this is a crisis. 60% of the country has a chronic disease and people with chronic disease are responsible for I Google me on this but I'm pretty sure it's like 90% of healthcare costs. Diabetes alone is like 60% of health of healthcare costs. Right? So this is a like this is an emergency and so it's an it's a a a much better environment now to to to pass that than it was like say you know whatever 10, 15 years ago.

Yeah. And it just uh it baffles me too like I I don't care I I you don't need to throw an opinion on this Paul I'll do it. The the political landscape that we have now is like how many people are so hardened on one side that they can't see that this is a huge opportunity. They just want to hate the people doing it. And it's like I you know guys like let's just who doesn't want better health for our children? Who doesn't want a a longer healthier life with less sickness at the end of people's lives like I don't if you love yourself or anybody else uh on this planet like this is a huge opportunity. So you know just kind of just put it aside for a second grow up and look at the opportunity and let's just realize this is where we're at and this is this is TG.

Well as we talked off off camera earlier you know RFD Jr huge lightning rod.

Right.

Oh yeah and you know huge and I would say probably the majority of the people maybe it's Swift 5050 but have a less than favorable view mainly because of his position on autism and vaccines I would think so so in that regard you know like I said lightning rod people right away it's RFK I'm not I'm not gonna listen to it because everything comes out of his mouth is bullshit. The flip side argument is what a better guy to put in charge of that because look at all the attention it's drawn. Yeah yeah right it wasn't uh old Leah Mather or one of the two those there's no such thing as bad publicity. So in some some regards it was a a brilliant selection.

Yeah well you know I uh everyone keeps saying that he's he does crazy stuff and I just remember distinctly and this is you know a little off target but it's funny so there was a story about the him putting a a black bear in uh in central park I don't know if you heard this one when he was and he was you know he admit he is uh he was a little crazy in his younger days sorted past drug issues drinking problems all kinds of stuff but when I first started hearing I started reading it I actually read the transcript of him that's saying it and I was like oh and as a guy from Montana who does some hunting I was like okay well he found roadkill which you can legally process the roadkill I'm like okay that's not that weird and then it started to get weirder and weirder I'm like okay this guy's a he's a little bit of a freak right like who takes that bear and puts it behind a bicycle rack in Central Park right so I was like okay well that's I can't defend that that's just odd but you know I think you're right like he's you gotta have and also just to stand up and take punches for like this you got to be a little wacky right you can't no sane person really wants to do that job no at this point.

I don't I don't want yeah and if people want any consolation the bottom line is yes he's head of the F he's the FDA but he's got a huge number of people there executing that are going to be unfazed by the fact that RFK Jr is their boss so I wouldn't look for any dilution and services or capability. I think we're fine.

Yeah yeah cool. Okay so slight shifts where it's the end here Paul is um you don't want to touch on Tariffs too. There's a lot of and for people, we are recording in May of 2020. It's really thrown the markets upside down, sideways, laterally, you name it. It's gone in every direction for the past like 30 days, days. And I think the industry is very uncertain about what's going to happen. But if you could give any sage advice to the industry right now about this period of time of tariffs, what what would you say? Is it hold steady, prepare, take any drastic movement? Like where what what would you tell us?

Well, when you say industry, I mean it depends on you know where what segment you're in, right? I I I would I would think for a club, not much you could do, hold hold steady. The concern would be if these linger, they go on for years, year or more. Um, you know, it's it's a tax, it's a huge tax on people. So you may have people who can't afford to, frankly, to go to the club anymore. And if it really keeps going and you might not want to refurbish your equipment on the same pace you did, maybe you've flipped everything out every four or five years, maybe that goes to seven because of cost, that impacts manufacturers, that their business is going to be impacted by it. So nobody wins the tariff thing. Yeah, it's it's a tax on everybody. It just depends on where you are in the food chain.

And I would imagine uh if the tariffs hold and you know, companies that obviously ship from China or have to deal a lot with, you know, a lot of these, they're they're gonna get hit hard on the consumer or the product side. Do you think there's gonna be a lot of consolidation coming across the board this year? I mean, do you think that's gonna force you know a lot of um transactions like in the investment banking world? What do you what would you predict there?

That is a possibility. I think the ones at the greatest risk are the smaller companies who maybe don't have the cash cushion to basically wait this, weight this out. I mean, it's one thing to pay a more from China and you bring it in and sell it for a higher price, and maybe your volume goes down, but you keep going. But if if you are impacted to the degree that you can you're no longer at break even, which is much more likely to happen with a smaller company, I would think, then yeah, you could go out of business. And so some of those people who may be China Cash right now might be great free grant grants. They might be great products. It's just they got caught in this totally unexpected squeeze, and they have no they have no other alternative than to declare you know chapter 11 or to put the company up for sale or both.

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be a wild ride. I'm hoping it's just very short term, but we'll see.

I would say more more likely than not, it will be short term. No, not that I'm a sage prognosticator, but I just think uh Trump's under so much pressure now from everyone. Everyone. I mean he's got he's got Navarro, and that's a best. I mean, the the the universe people really believe in what he's doing from a tariff perspective is is a number less than ten.

Well, we'll see, man. It's not boring. So far, 2025 has been uh not boring, and uh that's that's that's something.

It's been it's been fun so far.

Yeah, that's been interesting. Uh Paul, go ahead.

No, no, that's fun. Go ahead.

Uh, I was just gonna say thank you for for joining me. And uh if if people want to get like you have those reports on strength training, you have the the report on GLP one. Are you gonna be having a new report coming out soon? And and where can people find that information?

I don't have a new one teed up quite yet. This was going to be its own report. I don't know if we'll follow through with that or not. Uh, but there's plenty of interesting areas to do deeper dives into. So I'll keep you posted.

Yeah, that'd be great. And uh of course, if people want to connect with you personally, what's what's a good way for them to do that?

So you could reach me at HarrisonCo Pburn, B Y R-N E at Harrisonco.com. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, two most simple ways to contact.

Awesome. Well, Paul, I I always really appreciate your insights. Uh, every conversation I have, I get value from it. And I think, you know, I I would urge people to really go get those reports, even if they're you know now seemingly outdated, they're really not, especially the strength one. And I think you go back to what you you said about GLP ones, and people will be like, oh wow, there's still a lot to learn here, and there's still a lot of value in those. So yeah, I would urge people to do it. And thanks so much for doing this. And uh, you know, hopefully you get some good fishing in this weekend.

Uh not this weekend, but maybe next week. Awesome. Awesome. Have you been out?

Not yet. Not yet. But soon, soon the rivers are still running a little too fast. So we'll we'll see. Awesome.

Good, my friend. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it.

Paul Byrne. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futurofitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.