Michael Chapp - Oura Ring: Better Tech, Better Sleep, Better Health

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. Hey friends, I couldn't be more proud and excited to announce that today's episode is powered by workout, the ultimate tool for modern fitness professionals just like you. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Hyperite, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases the products you've already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business with store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-ut.com. Just one-o. W-r-k-o-ut-go get it. All right, we are live. Michael Chapp, welcome to the future of fitness.

Eric, thank you so much. I've been looking forward to this.

Me too. I'm I'm really I'm giddy today. I uh, you know, I love the product, I love the field, I love wearables. Um you and I have had you know great banter right before recording here. So there's so much to talk about with what you're doing, Aura. It's become so popular. And uh a lot of my colleagues and you know, Kurt and Mitch over at workout, they love Aura. Um and yeah, so uh let's get into it. I mean, there's a lot to cover. I want to make sure we optimize this time. So let's start with this, Michael. If you can just give us a little bit of your background, uh, how you got to be the chief operating officer at Aura, and then we'll we'll take it from there.

Yeah, thank you. Um, I might might go a little bit back in time. Uh I know this might be a little bit untraditional, but um, I actually want to maybe start off with um, you know, I think I really owe a lot of my interest and uh curiosity in both physiology, physiology and technology uh from my mom. Um so she was actually a physical therapist, and um what uh what she would do is she would often come home and she'd be like, I have this kid who's in a wheelchair. Um how can we develop something that would you know make them independent? So how could we you know help them pick up a pencil that's on the floor and not have to ask somebody to help them, right? And I think that was my first window into the idea that technology or something that you could build could actually help someone. And from that point, I kind of was like, I want to do this for a lifetime goal, right? Like I want to help people. And I really just was thinking about physiology, thinking about this passion, and so I was like, I'll be a doctor, right? And so I started talking to my family members who were doctors, and actually one of them said something which really stuck with me, which was do you want to have a local impact or do you want to have a global impact? And that stuck with me, and it really shaped the way that I started thinking, and and I was like, how do we change it to make it global? And that's where technology came into my life, and I I went on to pursue um engineering and material science degrees, and so I started doing research in in more of the physiological, like um the medical space, and um, but growing up in Michigan, of course, you know, you got to go work for one of the big three. Um, so I started working out in the automotive industry, and why I'm connecting this is one of the first things I did was I want to put a patent through to put heart rate sensors in the steering wheel, and I want to put sensors in the seats so that we can give people some diagnostics as they're driving. And you should have seen the glare back that I got from people. And the statement was a little too early. This is a car. We get people from point A to point B. And I started realizing this might not be the industry that I should be in right now. Um, and so I actually went on and I was thinking, all right, if I if my goal is to really make a global impact, that means I can't sit in my comfort zone. And so I actually moved to Germany, studied in Germany, um, and put myself out there and started doing research in robotic surgical platforms. Um, and the thought model and how they think out there was drastically different than how I was trained here in the US. And I started to put these pieces together and saying, you know what, there's more out there. And so you'll probably look at my career, it's kind of scattered all throughout, but it was actually intentional. So I've worked in different industries, at different functions and capacities, and in different geographies. And the reason was is because I was like, you know what? If we can make these connections, what are the best practices, what are the best pieces of technology? One day, how do we combine all of this to make that global impact? Um, and today I feel like I'm I'm able to do that, right? And um, so my everything, I I feel blessed that I am able to kind of fulfill that dream. Um, but really what brought me here to Aura was during that journey, I actually ran upon, uh stumbled upon them for the Kickstarter campaign that they had. And to be completely honest, I was like, I'm skeptical that they can deliver on this because my engineering background is telling me you need a big team to deliver this. And I was seeing the size of the team that they had, and I was like, this will be a wonder if they can do it. And lo and behold, they did, right? And it was, I I reunited in with with their Gen 2, and I had just come off of my own startups. I was in severe burnout, and I was looking for something to kind of help me get through that period, and it was the first wearable, and I have a junk drawer that sits behind my desk every day, um, and it's full of wearables. I've tried so many of them. And this is the only one that has made change in my life and in the first week. And it was the first one that ever stayed on my person longer than a week, and I was like, there's something here, and I need to be a part of it. And that's kind of what brought me reunited with Aura and you know the rest is history. Um, and I've been very, very fortunate to be able to be on this journey with and and meet all the people who were in that original core group, you know. Um, so we have a pretty amazing team here.

Yeah, that is that's a great story, and it's it's amazing that your, I guess, mission in life has been so aligned since for so many years. You know, it takes a lot of people uh like myself, probably a very long time to kind of find out, well, what is it I really want to do as a grown-up, right? Like, and how do I find it? And uh, you know, coming back to your like your junk tour reference, I same thing. I mean, I want to I I have I I have a lot of devices that I've tried out um and played with. And, you know, I'm curious from your experience after you having that junk drawer and finding Aura, why? Like, why was Aura different to you? What what was the differentiator? Because that was going to be a question I was gonna ask anyway, but this is good context.

Yeah, and and and one of the reasons, you know, first one of the reasons why I have it behind my desk is because it's the first thing that I see when I walk in my office every day. Yeah. And it reminds me, don't ever end up in that drawer. Right, you know, and and and it comes back to the question that you just asked, which is I think in a few for a few of them, I think it was timing. Um, I think some of them were ahead of their time. Um, I don't know if the society was ready for them at that point. I think some of them were execution based. Um, but I also think a big part of it, more than anything, is I feel like, and this is what I feel like also differentiates Aura from others, is they often start off with a piece of technology in search of a problem, right? Like, here's an accelerometer, a great piece of technology. What problem could it solve? Right? In a lot of ways, steps, activity, a lot of things started from that versus kind of aura took a different approach, which was what do we want to do in the world? What do we, what impact do we want to make in the world? And we started off with the problem statement of this world has way too many chronic diseases. And often the time that you it's it's it's more about reactive care versus proactive care. So, how do we shift and change the mindset? But you can't just shift the mindset, you have to give people tools to enable them to do that, right? And so Aura was actually spawned out of like, how do we eliminate or reduce you know, heart disease, diabetes, um, Alzheimer's, dementia, um, things that are you know, the top chronic diseases, like how do we help offset that? Or even if we could just help one person never get to that point, that's a win, right? And what we found was a lot of those are rooted in poor quality sleeps over decades, right? Your body's not able to repair and recover. And so if you start with that problem statement, the next question is, well, how do you enable that? How do you unlock it? And and Aura was born at a time when most were wrist wearables, right? So it would have been really easy to just say, hey, let's go create another wrist wearable, we'll take those physiological signals and create something. And Aura looked at it and go, okay, well, the quality of the signal wasn't quite what we needed in terms of the grade there. So they looked at it and they said, well, why don't we build something that actually uses comes from the finger? Because that's where if you go to the doctor, that's where they measure, right? They measure your SPO2, they measure your heart rate from the finger. And the reason is is because it's arterial blood flow, right? So oxygen rich. And if you ever were asked to measure your heart rate, you typically probably put it on the bottom of your wrist, right? And that's because the signal is stronger, and those arteries actually run up through your fingers. And so that's what we're actually measuring, whereas a lot of the wrist wear balls are either reading from the capillaries or the veins, right? And the signal quality is lower. And so that unlocked an amazing signal quality for us to now go through and say, look, we can expand a lot more, a lot more insights. There's a lot more data-rich things there for us to capture and unlock. And so I would say it's also the thesis of like what we're trying to do and how we approach the problem, I think is why some haven't lasted. And I think it's also what we're able to do in the future with this data is to bring out more of that insights to help people. So I never want to send in that junk drawer. And I think that's uh that's that's a testament to kind of where the founder started off with the problem statement.

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I think you're spot on, and I I I appreciate you saying that because I think often in this the world of wearables, right? I think everybody kind of gets pigeonholed into one area and it typically gets captured around you know, activity tracking. Yeah. Right. And and as I mentioned, like we're actually trying to take that holistic approach of like how could we be, you know, your holistic health companion, if you will, right? Giving you insights, and that that means that we have to go way beyond the activity side, right? And and that's why we actually started with sleep, was because sleep actually really does impact everything, right? It impacts our energy levels the next day, our mood, it impacts like everything from our skin, right? To how are we thinking and and our energy. So it's it's holistic. We have to think of it that way. And if we we look at just one area of activity, we may burn ourselves out, we might overload it, you know, and so we're pushing ourselves too hard. Um, if we sleep and we never get activity, then that also is bad, right? So so we have to look at the person as one being. And and you mentioned something, and I really appreciate that because it's it's it's kind of the tone, right? Like our mission is not to judge you. We want to meet you where you are, and some days, like if you're struggling, the last thing we want to do is hit you when you're gone, right? We want to be that companion who's there to support you and help you live your best day, right? I think there's a buzzword out there right now, which is longevity. Everybody's shooting for longevity, right? Yeah, I I look at it, it's like, what's your health span? And that means that like I want to live a healthy everyday life as long as I possibly can, right? And so, so encourage me, you know, support me and be that companion for me when I need it versus judging me and when when I don't need that at that moment. And so we we are very, very conscious of how we present information, how we you know speak with you, and we kind of think of it as like this is actually your body speaking with you. So it's your physiological like talking, your physiology talking to you versus the data being about us, right? It's about you. And we try to always put our members in the first and foremost, and we're like, how would you want to be you know communicated with? Because it's your body who's speaking with you, if that makes sense.

Oh, it makes total sense. And it it it's different. I mean, there's a lot of wearables are definitely more uh it's ubiquitous now in a lot of the market, right? Uh, but I've noticed, especially in the early days, talking to people who are like, well, I don't need someone to tell me that I'm stressed out, right? I already know I'm stressed out. Like that just compounds the issue. And I'll know sometimes I'm like, I wake up, I'm like, man, I'm tired, and then I'll look at you know, some data uh from my night's sleep or the day before my HRV. I'll be like, oh man, I'm really tired. Like, oh my God, I'm screwed, but I got such a busy day, I gotta keep pushing through it anyway. And then like, you there's no, and we're really hard on ourselves, right? And that's something I've always taught myself too is like, Eric, what would you tell yourself if you're coaching yourself? Well, you probably have a lot more compassion for you and be like, hey, it's all right, it's just one day, right? Like, keep going. And that's the kind of tone that I get from from you guys. And the other thing is that it it also has the um, you know, what I call the the now what. So we get data pushed to us. Most consumers are just like, well, okay, great, now what? And this one gives me some insights, like, hey, you know, Eric, maybe it's just today, just take it easy, man. You know, or do you want me to turn off uh do you want me to turn off the what is it, the activity score, and we'll just focus on recovery? Like it's like someone who's really compassionate and helping you through your day. So it's noticeable, it really is. And where did that come from? You know, like that thought pattern, has that been something new or has that always been kind of one of the core values?

It's always actually been one of the core values, and it goes back to meet you where you are. And that means a lot, right? It's not just where, you know, are in that moment in that time, but it's it's where are you at in your life journey, right? And we all have different need states, right, as time goes on. So a couple of years ago, I didn't have a child, right? So my need state and what I was looking for out of Aura was drastically different than the day my son was born, right? At that point, it was like, hey, how do I get you know quality sleep when I just had a child, right? And so we look at things a little bit differently. It's like it's not a one-size-fits-all, it's also not a one-size-fits-all for that moment in time because you know, six months from now, you may be in a very different state. You may be in a healthier state. It's like, hey, I just want to maintain, you know, or if you're struggling a little bit, it's like, how do we encourage you? How do we help you get through it? So we want to be there with you through all of these moments in your life. And that means that that's that that means that we have to be able to communicate with you in a way that's you know personal, right? Yeah. And and not judgmental. Um, and so we spend a lot of time on that. And that's that's actually been rooted since the the origins of Aura.

Yeah, I think you you put in one of your LinkedIn posts uh, you know, that the context is really important around the data. And that that's so individualized. And personalization is another buzzword this year, just like longevity, right? Personalization. But it's true, you know, that is the future of the fitness and health industry, is how more personalized can we, yeah, because we all, yeah, we're individuals, you know, we have individual stressors and genetics and all that. And I know that aura really hangs its hat on sleep, and that's critical. I mean, I've had a lot of performance experts on the show, and everyone's like, you know, call it the coach's journey is like you you learn a little bit and you know everything, then you learn a little bit more, you know nothing, and then you kind of come back around to the fundamentals, and that's all you need to focus on, right? Which is sleep. And how do you differ in that technology space? Like what makes your tech better, your interface better and more reliable than some of the others?

It's a great question. And I think a lot of it comes back to this was how we started, right? We we've we've like Aura was born out of focusing on sleep because we knew the impact of it on our health overall. And we've been really gracious that like more and more people are starting to become aware of the impact of sleep. But as I go back to our like we we started off in sleep, we continuously improve in sleep. And as an example, we just updated our sleep staging algorithm, right? And we went out, we have now the largest data set um in research, um, which is like 1200 plus nights of sleep and counting. Um and what that did, and that's PSG, uh poly polyptography, sorry, PSG, like I wouldn't be able to pronounce it either. Um but it's it's the sleep ladder, it's a gold standard, right? And what we wanted to do is keep refining what we had and keep improving it. And so now we're at 79% at that accuracy level, which is unfounded, right? And but what we've done in order to get there is we had to do this research in different geographies, right, to capture different skin tones, different cultures, um, you know, different age groups. And so we've really taken it to the next level of like, how do we look at this holistically? If we believe that sleep is so important, which we do, then that means we can't just be in a localized bubble and do 20 nights, which most people base 20 or 30 nights is what most are based off of. We're like, we have to go big and expansive, and so that's really how we continue to improve in that space. And then in other things, like we don't want to just stop there, right? It's not just about the sleep stages, it's not just about the onset. It's like, how are we in sync with ourselves, right? And I'll give an example, like we just introduced body clock, right, and circadian rhythm, right? And are we in sync with that? And I just uh had a meeting earlier this morning, and it's interesting because one of my teammates shifted their sleep schedules and their work schedule because they actually had found all these years they were working and sleeping out of sync, you know, with it. And it was adding, they just never understood why they were so like drained. And now they're coming back to like, hey, I'm really energized now. I'm much more productive and they're living the best life. But like these are the things in terms of sleep we're really pushing on is not just sticking on what we've developed in the past, but how do we keep improving there? How do we keep adding more insights and helping people learn more about what the sleep impact is? But when you ask about the quality and what sets us apart, it really comes back to the form factor, it being on the finger, it being unobtrusive, like most people say that they forget about it, which is wonderful because that means that they keep it on. So we have like people wear this 24-7, almost 24-7, right? And so that's battery life, that's the ability to just feel like, hey, I'm not really being trapped, right? And so it allows us to get more time with the person.

Yeah, that's great. So is that are you referring to like the people's chronotypes? Because you you mentioned that on LinkedIn too. Like some people are, you know, early morning people, some people are late night people. Is that yeah, I am too. I mean, it tells me, like, I think I'm part of the sleep beta now, but it tells me my ideal sleep time go to bedtime is like between 8.15 and 9.15, which is so early, right? I feel like such an old man. But I do get up early and I'm I'm most energetic in the mornings. Uh and I'm wondering if is that is it pulling data somehow and sorting that out for me and informing me? Like how how is that working?

Exactly. So what we do is we look at kind of your data over months and then we start to understand what your behaviors are. So for example, I'm early morning. Like I'm up at 3 a.m. and I'm out. Wow. Like I'm I'm running, like I'm I'm ready to go. Um, and but I don't expect my team to do that, right? Uh and uh so it's it's like being aware, right? You know, it's it's and and the thing is like most people it's I feel like it's also like an affirmation, right? Because you're like, there's something wrong with me. Like, why am I waking up so early? Everybody else is sleeping longer, right? But now you're like, no, this is just really who I am, and and that's great, and that's okay, you know, and I think we make these adjustments because we're learning. And sleep is still like a black box, you know, for most people. Like, you know, I love the book, you know, um, you know, bringing awareness to why we sleep, you know, but there's and what happens during our sleep. Um, but yeah, I think it's still like most people just feel like it happens to us, you know. And at Aura, we look at sleep as kind of of a reflection of your day, right? And if you think about that, everything in your day leads up to what the quality of sleep you're gonna have moving forward, which then impacts the next day, right? So if I know that I drank a glass of wine at 9 p.m., I'm probably gonna have a hit in my deep sleep, right? If I'm gonna eat dinner late, heavy carb dinner, I'm probably gonna have an impact in my sleep. If I work out right before I go to sleep, that's probably gonna so all of these things on their own are not bad, right? But the question is when should I be doing these things for myself? And that's gonna be very different than what it is for you, Eric, right? And so these are the things that we're trying to help people understand and appreciate about them is that like don't judge yourself against others, right? Like learn about yourself and what works for you, and then let's live our best life because of that, you know?

I love it. It's such a great message. Uh, out of curiosity, do you do you have any plans to extend the product line, or is it always going to be the ring? Like, is there is there any thoughts on that moving forward that you could share?

It's a great question. So, right now, I'd say we're really focused on the ring because we realize and we still truly believe that the ring form factor gives us the best quality data to unlock all of these insights and to be able to get to where we need to go. Again, if we look at like where we're headed, it's how do we provide all the information you need to live your healthiest life, right? And right now we believe that to be the ring form factor, so that's where we're focused. But just as anything, the world is changing, so we're always keeping our eye open and and researching what there could be, but there's nothing in the pipeline right now. Everything is really still focused on that. But we we have to keep innovating, right? We have to keep our eye on what's what's next in the future.

Yeah, awesome. Um well, speaking of technology iterating over time, we're we're in Q2 of 2023, and uh generative AI has taken the world by storm, right? Really over like a 60-day span, it's bananas, uh, you know, how how fast that that genie got out of the bottle. Uh when you look at AI in the in the field of preventive health and wearables, like what gets you excited? Um I I know you're a technology you're optimist, right? Um I kind of walk the line, I change every day. But uh yeah, what gets you excited? What what do you see as the possibilities with Aura when it comes to AI? And yeah, share share some thoughts on that.

Yeah, I I think to say that it's advanced rapidly is an understatement, right? I mean it's like just gone kind of crazy. And and you know, the technologist in me loves it because I think there's it's with pushing the envelope. Um, a person who has a lot of personal data, um, you know, and and I kind of look at it as like we need to protect that, right? So there's this healthy balance of I do believe AI is going to make big improvements and advancements in the future, but a lot of it comes down to what is the data set that you're building off of, right? And I still believe that in order for this to be effective, there still needs to be training in the background and oversight by humans, right? And so we're gonna have to, I think as the world, we're we're I think everybody has to embrace that AI is gonna be there some in some form in the future. Um and the question is how do we make sure that we do it in a responsible way, right? And that's the thing that we talk about internally is doing this responsibly, making sure that we're protecting all of our members, all of their data, and being able to protect all of our employees as well, right? And so it's these learning experiences of what you could do, but is it the right thing to do? And I think those are the ethical questions that are going to be challenged over you know the next few months and over the next years, and it's evolving. I but I think it's here to stay. The question is, how do we do it in that responsible form? And we're learning a lot internally, and we're constantly you know learning what's going on in the world. Like I've seen some great health chat GDT chatbots that are out there working, and it at first glance it's really exciting, right? But you're also like, okay, is this secure? Is this the right thing? Is it are are there hallucinations? How do we reduce hallucinations? So I think we have to think about all of this in a way that's holistic, but I do see a future, um, but it's gonna require a lot of the training models, a lot of the oversight from humans.

When you say hallucinations, what do you mean by that?

Um, so they're there when you generate something, it's it it could be artificial, right? Like, so for example, if I was to create a graphic and say, generate my hand and my fingers are all distorted, that that's a hallucination based on uh what I've actually said. It's it's not real, right? And so you probably have seen some of this generative AI where it comes out and it's not a true form. Um and so it's like, how do you reduce some of that so that you're not, for example, giving somebody guidance that isn't accurate? Um so if I was to say, Eric, you're uh you know, an Olympic skier, right? You might be like, wait, where did that come from? Right. But I might believe that because that's what was told to me and I don't know any different. So we have to prevent that misunderstanding and making sure that what we are sharing is accurate, you know, in the future.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I I probably prompt Chat GPT every day. Like I just have it up and I'm like, oh, I wonder what something random pops in my head, or I'm working on a little project. I'm I'm constantly I'm learning more and more, but a lot of time it just spits out junk, you know. And I think that's something that people are starting to realize too, is like maybe it's not as far as we thought, or maybe it's farther in certain areas, but still, you know, has a lot of work in other areas. So it's it's interesting. So it sounds like you guys are on it. You're uh you're you're working with it.

Yeah, well, it's the data sets, right? And I think that's the important part is in order to be able to generate great quality output, you have to have really solid input and understand what that means. Um, so I think a lot of that is it's it's kind of how we think about it. It's like how do we do it in a responsible form? But I think there has to be that oversight still.

Yeah. And uh I want to back up one second too, because we didn't really cover it. But who who is like the primary population that Aura works with? Like, is there a certain demographic that you guys are focused in on? I mean, I'm gonna take a while, I guess, but I'm gonna manage it to say it's a little bit older, right? Probably like 45 and up, but I could be wrong. I'm I'm just curious to see what you guys see on your end.

It's actually interesting. Um, we actually have a pretty wide spectrum in terms of age demographics. Um, and what I would kind of maybe think through there is there's a lot of, I think there's this younger generation that's really conscious about their health. I think COVID really changed the way we think about our health. Um and there's a group who's really, really conscious about how do they improve their life, and actually it's specifically talking about sleep. There's a lot of students who are like, hey, what is your superpower, right, in order to get good grades and be focused? It's sleep, right? So there's some people who've really latched onto that and embraced it at the collegiate level. And so we do have a younger group in the middle. You have us who are like, you know, we're in our prime, hopefully, right? And we're like, you know, advancing and we want to stay healthy. And then we also have an older demographic, which is how do I keep thinking about improving my sleep quality? Because morbidity actually is linked to when you start to reduce the amount of sleep that you have, right? And so we have, I think, a wide spectrum of age demographics. And then I would even say in terms of ethnicities as well, like it's it's kind of all over. Um, but what I would say in terms of the target where we're seeing a natural group are people who want to improve, people who are looking for a solution and don't necessarily know what that solution looks like yet, but is like, hey, I want to start, and I think that or is the right thing to help give me my holistic view versus just steps, right? Or hitting the gym really hard. It's I really want to understand what's happening, you know, to me and how can I influence that so that it's not to me, but for me, right?

Yeah, interesting. And and I would imagine too that you guys have such a large data set that you can start looking at subsets of a population, right? And some underserved, some well, a lot of them underserved. Uh there's a couple that I want to get your your thoughts on. Because first of all, is is shift workers, first responders. Uh, I've I had the pleasure and honor of working with a lot of them back uh when I owned a gym in Santa Barbara. And it was just so challenging. There's so many times where you almost just had to like throw your hands in there and be like, you know what, just try to sleep more, you know, and we'll we'll work it out day by day. So it the them, and then you know, we'll get to this one in a second, but is is the the women's health. You know, those are two areas that seem to be very um keen for a lot of help. So let's start with the the first responders and the shift workers. What what do you guys see in that subset?

Yeah, and I I appreciate that too, because when we I'll go back a few years, actually when COVID um first started impacting the world, we were immediately like, how can we help here? Um and so we actually I personally went and started, you know, working and distributing rings uh actually to frontline workers of the police department, um, ambulance, and and also in the hospitals. And a lot of it was because we didn't know what we didn't know back then, right? And a lot of that was actually trying to help people understand like, are the it, you know, is there an onset of sickness? Are they like what's because we measure temperature, right? And I think this also will lead into the next topic. But like, so we were were really like looking at helping people understand, you know, especially in the frontline workers, HRV is a big one for them. We there's been a study actually out with um with uh a police force where they started wearing it and understanding like how their sleep and their shifts and everything were impacting their health. Um, you know, with with all of the frontline workers in the healthcare, um, you know, all the different shifts, we've actually started looking at pulling that in now, and we have something called sleep irregularity. And so these are all these irregular, you know, time period shifts, um, and we're actually building that into our readiness score now. So it's actually being represented there. Um so if you're polyphasic sleeper as well, that's represented. So we've updated that um within our app to account for that, but a lot of it also is with the um chronotype as well. One of the things is like if you're aware that your chronotype is in mismatch with your career, you know, that's gonna be a challenge, right? And so I think it's again driving awareness to individuals of like what's happening, you know, is it natural? And I think in some cases, giving people affirmation. Um, there's two things we often talk about here as well, which is the willingness to change and the capability of change, right? And so I can give you information, but you have to be willing and capable, right? And a good example is when I had my son, I was willing to sleep. I wasn't capable of it because my life had changed. And so the question is, how do you get both of those, right? And you may have to make some life changes, or if you don't, how do you minimize the impact of one or the other um to help you get there? But we want to bring at least the awareness to you that that's um you know available to you. Um, and then that's how we also incorporate it into the scores now, so you're not either it's not accounting for your sleep because of the the shift, now we do, right? Um, so we want to make sure we're always listening to feedback um from all of our members and how do we help them um reach what they're trying to accomplish as well. Um and then yeah, in terms of women's health, um so we we've had a temperature sensor in our ring since origins. So we've been measuring temperature, and we have probably one of the largest data sets of continuous temperature measurement. And one of the things that is really important is for cycle phases, um, period prediction for women is most apps use a calendar method, and they stick you with a 28-day calendar method. That's the that's it's 28 days, that's your period, or sorry, that's uh the time in between. And so only 13% of people who have cycles actually fit within that. And so talk about underserved, right? So we've been able to, with being able to track temperature continuously, be able to help with period prediction for those who do experience them, and so that's kind of something we really are looking to help form and shift and like looking at fertility. Um, personally, my wife and I, it took us years. Um, and we went through this really, really long journey together, and you know, we've actually discovered that we were pregnant through Aura before we could actually do the test. And I can tell you, after spending years trying to conceive, when you know a little bit more in advance, you change your behavior. Like we were like, okay, how do we de-stress? How do we like make sure we're home? We're we're providing the best environment for both of us and like thinking through all this, like it changed our behavior because we wanted to increase the opportunity for success, right? And this is when when I personally with my wife we experienced this, we were like, we need to make an impact here in women's health. Aura has such an opportunity here to help women understand their phase cycle phases, um, couples who are looking to go through fertility. Like, this is the future, right? This is a long-term future for us, envision for us is how do we actually work and support women and people who have phase cycles through this journey of life. And um, I think this is gonna be a big, big opportunity for all of our members um and thinking about life a little bit differently moving forward.

It's a huge opportunity. And it's I I've had, gosh, I I think right before this, the episode that would excuse me, they'll release this uh Dr. Stacey Sims. Um, I've had um, you know, Kristen Holmes from Woob. We talked about this as well. Uh Misha Tate, the UFC fire she was on recently as well. And we talked about women specific, you know, uh physiology towards performance and training and relationships and all that. So it's all really starting to come to the forefront. And it's embarrassing that our studies, uh, peer-reviewed studies for so long have just been stuck on the male physiology. You know, it's some of it that problem is like very much coming into the forefront now. And it's it's great that you guys are involved in that. Uh, I really appreciate it. The um the salt lean and one thing, which always really interests me too, is the integration of wearable data into healthcare, right? And what that means. That's it's huge. And some people say we're so far away from it, right? Some people are like, no, it's right around the corner. But to me, it all comes down to a couple things. We need the ability to communicate with the healthcare system. Um, and that comes down to data, right? That's the language, and that data needs to be, it needs to be agreed upon for lack of a better term, peer reviewed and all that. So when you look at Aura's integration into the healthcare systems, and I guess we could really just focus on the US because that's probably the most, you know, right at your doorstep. What uh what does that look like? You know, how how promising is it? How far away is it? What needs to happen for that to take place?

You know, I think we've seen a big shift during COVID. Um, I think in terms of how the FDA, how the medical system is actually thinking about wearables. Um, if if you think prior to that again, it's it was mostly here's activity tracking. And I think people are now uh seeing that there's a lot more to them, there's a lot more um opportunity for us to think about these longitudinal aspects of our life. And and I think there is this convergence that will happen. Um, you'll have wearables getting more expansive, you'll have people wearing them starting to trust them a little bit more. Um, because I do think that's one of the problems with with wearables still is like, do I trust the data? If I trust it, what do I do with it, right? And you know, where do I go from there? And so this is something that I think the industry is is starting to tackle. Um, and Aura specifically, that's where we're focused is the the so what and the now what of like what you just mentioned. Um and then from the healthcare medical side, they there are some you know people who are already starting to embrace it, obviously not relying on it as medical um uh you know inputs, but like they're actually looking at it from the trend perspective to help influence some some of what their decisions are. Um so there are some doctors, some you know, physicians who are using it today. Um but I think that there has to be you know a lot more companies like us who are shifting towards that, going through the the approvals and the certifications. Um that's where we're headed, that's where we'll get to. Um but I think where there's still a lot for us to accomplish on you know the consumer side and being able to get this out there in the masses. The way we've kind of early in the early days, it was more of like if we're medical devices, can we make the direct impact as fast as possible, right? Um and we are not giving anybody diagnoses or things like that. Um, but what we can do is start to help people not get to that point where they have to go um, you know, down the chronic disease path. And so that's what we're really trying to do is how do we offset that so that it doesn't happen? But once it does, how do we enable ourselves to be able to share that information with doctors so that they can make more informed decisions and help you know their patients at that point? Um, but that that is gonna take time. The two systems, I think consumer moves a lot faster, and rightfully so, I think you know, part of the FDA and and the medical systems, like they have to validate, right? And so that's some of the stuff we continue to do is research. How do we validate, how do we build credibility for our own? Like we have really, really strong uh medical grade sensors sensing that we use, um, but you know, I think we still have to pursue everything as as everybody else would to get the certifications.

If you if you had a crystal ball, Michael, and you like how the scenario where I go to my doctor, you know, I have the option of sharing my wearable data. He brings out, you know, a little iPad and we start looking at it and we're reviewing it, we're talking about trends, and you know, that's how we use the data to get me better health outcomes through my medical professional. How far off is that? How far in the future would you guess that is? Five to ten, ten to twenty?

I I think you're probably well, some doctors are doing it say but fully integrated. I think we're talking probably five plus years. Um but um I would love to see that sooner, obviously. Um I just think there's a lot of there's a lot of information out there now. Um, and through wearables, the impact and the power. Like Aura, again, I mean we're we're really focused on the accuracy. We're really focused on being able to make sure that everything that we're stating is true and factual, right? And so we do see that as our future path, but right now we need to make sure that we're serving all of our members and doing it in a responsible way. Um, and I think a lot of doctors are starting to see that, and they can use that, you know, as they choose. Um, but I would hope that in the future we're able to kind of progress this faster. Um because I I do think that it's just getting smarter and smarter, right?

Yeah, yeah. Well, uh I know we're we're starting to run up on time. I do have just a couple more key questions for you, though, Michael. Um so uh uh if my information is correct, about a year ago or hit the benchmark of selling one million rings, right? Uh evaluation, I think you guys raised it 2.55 billion. Um over the last year, like how have those numbers expanded? I don't know if you guys have raised additionally, but maybe give us some insights into the the overall numbers of the business for sharing whatever you can.

Yeah, we've so we've actually had really steady growth. Um, I think some some companies have had contraction, you know, over the last year. We've actually seen really steady growth, which has been really comforting. Um, I think not just from the financial side, but knowing that people see and feel that there's value there, right? And a lot of what we see is um a lot of our our our member attraction is actually through other members, like through word of mouth, right? And so for us, that tells us we're doing something right, but it also tells us we need to keep innovating to keep people excited about what we're doing and also sharing it out with others. And I think that's that's been really comforting and really positive for us is to see that positive growth and to be able to justify and validate everything that was in our mission and vision. And so we've had steady growth and we continue to foresee that. Um now, with the world in which everything, I don't, you know, if everything kind of happened last year, I don't think many of us were able to predict um, you know, kind of war and and prior to that supply chain issues. So I feel you know, Ora has been set up in a really strong position to be able to continue the growth through all of that diversity which we encountered. Um, but I think we still have a strong future ahead and we're gonna continue, you know, innovating and pushing ahead and uh yeah and growing. So um much higher than than where we were last year. Um but it also you know we're we're we're we're very appreciative for all of our members and uh kind of them sharing you know the love with with all of their friends and family as well.

Yeah, good answer. So last question for you is what do you need right now, Michael, when you uh kind of talk to our community here uh you know in the spirit of collaboration? Like who would you like to hear from? What insights are you interested in? Um yeah, what how can we help you?

Yeah, I think the first thing would be, as I just mentioned, actually awareness, right? I think with any startup, um, awareness is a big factor. And I would say awareness for two things. Awareness that sleep and health really matters, right? And taking care of ourselves and listening to our our our our own physiology, like our our we're talking to ourselves. The question is, are we listening? Right. So I think driving awareness for that. And number two is driving awareness for aura to help people unlock that hidden message that our body is telling us, right? And and providing that guidance. Um, the third one is I'll share by the time that this airs, we will be in Best Buy. Wow. And so if you're interested, please go to your nearest Best Buy, try them on, learn more about Aura, and um, we'd be excited to hear what you think. And uh hopefully you become uh a big fan of us as well and uh sharing this dream of ours of empowering every individual to really you know take ownership um of their own health and uh be able to live their best life.

So awesome, man. Well, Michael, this has been a pleasure, and and uh I can send people too. I know that you know you're pretty active on LinkedIn. Uh it looks like a pretty good place to connect with you and follow you. So I urge people to go check that out. And uh this has been great. I I've I almost checked all of the boxes of all the questions I wanted to ask you, uh, but there was always never there's never enough time. So really appreciate it, Michael. And perhaps we can have you on uh again in the year where we can get an update on what you guys are up to.

Look forward to it, Eric. Thank you so much.

Yeah, my pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Chop. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the feature of fitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.