Gilad Jacobs - Hyperice, NormaTec, & The Recovery Boom

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. I've been a subscriber for over four years now, and it's my go-to, trusted source for staying informed and getting the in-depth information that I need. Anthony, Joe, and the team do great work, from wearables to health optimization to the latest updates from companies like Woof and Java. FitInsider is one of the few newsletters that I actually look forward to seeing in my inbox. Plus, the platform also includes a weekly podcast, jobs board, investment fund, and resources for health tech operators. Check out the latest issue and subscribe at fitinsider.com. That's F-I-Dou-Tinsider.com. All right, we are live. Gila Jacobs, welcome to the future of fitness. What's going on? Yeah, it's uh good to be in there. Yeah, it's great to have you. I've I I'm already enjoying our conversations and we just hit record. And uh it's it's been a lot of fun. So uh I've been using some of the Norma Tech technology now for a few months. And I was alluding to when, you know, prior to our recording here is that, you know, I I know I like it, I know it works, but I'm not exactly sure what it's doing. And uh what a great person to ask is you, right? And there's so many things we can talk about today. I think recovery as an industry has really um evolved strongly over the last decade, and what does that mean for the future? And of course, you know, Normatech and HyperIts and all the great work you guys are doing there seem to be leaders in in that space. So before we get into uh some of those details about the technology and the company and the industry overall, just give us your background, G. Where uh how'd you get to be the chief innovation officer over there?

Yeah, it's been uh um quite the uh quite the ride. And sometimes when you sit back and kind of reflect on that, um, it's it's really interesting. A lot of people sometimes ask, you know, uh eventually when I write my book, uh, you know, what are those chapters going to be? And um when we really got started, it was a family business. My late mom was our founder, um, and she was an MD PhD, so a physiatrist, which no one knows what that is, but it's a rehab physician and um kind of the physician that sits um you know right on top of physical therapists and dealing with physical medicine rehab. Um, she before she actually became a physician, she was a PhD bioengineer. So she had a lot of schooling. I actually remember when she was in her early 40s, she finished her last student loan payment, and um she was like, all right, that's it, we're going out to dinner. And um I don't remember what we ordered, but I remember it was uh it was an event for the family. Um and her mission in life was to really help patients after breast cancer surgery uh who develop something called lymphedema, which is a swelling that can happen when your lymphatic system that we all have doesn't clear the lymph fluid out of your extremities um efficiently. And that can happen because you're born not connected up um the right way, or you've sustained an injury or gone through surgery, like women uh many times after breast cancer with lumpectomies and mastectomies. And they would have this really awful swelling, um, and the physicians wouldn't know what to do about it, their primary care docs. So they would go down to their uh surgeons who did the surgery, and the surgeon would say, Lady, you know, I just cured your cancer, you're not gonna die. Who cares if you have a swollen arm? Just go home and wrap it and bandage it and uh live your life. So they would go see her, and she was chief of rehab at this large hospital in New Jersey, right outside of Philly, where we were living at the time as a family in the 90s. And she said, you know, the solutions that were available at the time and and continue to persist today really didn't meet her standard of care, of clinical care. And she recognized that, excuse me, this issue was um something that was a micro vessel disorder, something that was really um uh, you know, very small in the body, not something that a surgery or medicine could really help. So this idea of external compression made a lot of sense, and she went around and got all these pumps that have been on the market uh since the 1960s and tried them out and didn't get very good clinical outcomes. And it was her brilliance to kind of say, well, the medicine of compression is actually how you're compressing, not just what the machine looks like or you know, what color the sleeves are. And she devised this really awesome and based on physiology way of increasing blood flow circulation in the body through a series of pulses and holds and releases. That's what you're, you know, Eric, what you're experiencing when you're in the Normotex sleeves, based on physiology, the same way your calf muscle, gastrocinemia soleus complex is pulsating moving fluid. Um, same kind of deal there. We have a pulsing action, we have a few other things we can get into if you're interested. But putting that kind of into something that somebody can easily use really does a wonderful job increasing circulation. So, long story short, she started the company for patients with breast cancer. I came out of college and I said there's got to be an application in sports. Um, I was always, you know, more into sports than the rest of my family. And she said, kiddo, it's not my jam, sink or swim, five grand, two machines, good luck. And coming right out of college, probably not knowing that I shouldn't be doing some of the things I was doing, like walking up to the Boston Celtics and knocking on the training room door and them looking at me like, you know, who is this kid? Um probably uh, you know, ended up helping me. Um I wasn't less self-aware back then than I am now. Um but again, maybe that was that was a technique that um one can employ when uh when you got to hustle and get things started. Um, but you know, to your point, what is it actually doing? We're increasing blood flow and and fluid movement in the body in a very effective way. And it also happens to feel really good. And from a scientific perspective, you need the science and and the medicine component that's there, but you also need the feel-good because we always know about these things that don't have both sides of the coin. Um, I think it was like a decade ago, the Eagles were you know making a uh a run through the playoffs and they swore by pickle juice, or you know, whatever the thing of the day is. Um obviously there's no science behind it, but if an athlete believes in it and it's legal and um they're not harming themselves, you know, why not do it? And if you believe in it, go for it. But when the psychosomatic kind of psychology and the medicine and science kind of match up, that's when um really cool things can happen. And uh that's what we uh see with Normotech and a lot of the hyperized technologies.

Yeah, interesting. So I've seen it, you know, over the last four years kind of iterate. Um how did you originally start it? Was it was it always the long the long leg sleeves that you put with, or how how has it evolved um in the, I guess, the the mass consumer applications?

Yeah, it actually started with the uh upper extremity sleeves um with patients. Um, and then we recognize very quickly in the sports world that while we have a lot of throwing athletes with quarterbacks and pitchers, uh, combat athletes that are grappling or rock climbing and stuff like that, um, not every athlete is using their upper body the same way that the majority of them are using their lower bodies. Um, so we actually found that legs um were and still are the number one kind of uh muscle group that you kind of want to hit from a recovery standpoint, at least to get started. Um, just about everyone is using their legs. Um, I would say everyone outside of wheelchair athletes, where we do a lot of stuff with the US uh Paralympic Committee and athletes um around the world. Obviously, upper extremity is really important for that and some of those other disciplines that we talked about. But everyone starts off with the Normatech legs, and then we have these great hip pieces that you can put on that look like a pair of ice hockey pants that get your upper quads and your lower back and your glutes. Um and then I would say um we have a lot of people who use the arms as well.

Yeah, interesting. It you mentioned a bunch of different sports, uh, but where where did you find that you got your your most important traction early? Was there any specific sports that that grappled onto this, grabbed onto this, sorry?

Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, when we got started, um, you know, beggars can't be choosers, so I literally couldn't get people to try our product even for free. I mean, that's how kind of not integrated um this concept was. And going back to one of your earlier thoughts around what do people do around recovery and how over the last decade, decade and a half, it's really kind of become more mainstream. Um, we had a connection at the University of Florida. Someone who had worked at Norma Tech, which was acquired by HyperIce in 2020, um, but had worked for Normatech in the early days, used to be in student health at uh down in Gainesville, and said, All right, I'll make a connection for you. So we go down there, we meet with basketball and uh their head football athletic trainers, and we said, Hey, do you want to check out some of our product? And they said, Great, you know, don't call us, we'll call you. Because Florida's always good, but especially in the mid-2000s, they were winning back-to-back basketball championships, football championships. I mean, they were you know the school to work with, and you can imagine that everyone was trying to come uh at them from every angle to say, you know, use my product, say you're using my product, endorse my product. And about three weeks in, it really just exploded, uh, where they started calling up and said, we need more machines. And I said, How do you know it's working? And they said, Well, one, and and kind of going back to that, that um those days, we never really focused on recovery. We didn't even know that that was a thing. At first, it was a modality, which is what they call it in the industry, is a tool to be utilized in a given medical scenario for post-stop post-injury. So you have an ankle sprain, right? Go guys go down the court, guy tears his ACL and it's going through uh rehab for it. You have a swollen area of the body. Let's put this on, because again, that's how we got started with the medical side of the business, and everything will kind of roll from there. Um, so they said, well, we know it works because you put it on, and we see the area get smaller. And we know that it works also because um most of the time it's really hard to keep the guys in the training room for more than like their mandated 15 minutes post-workout or whatever it is, post-game. They're coming in asking us to put on uh the Normotech. And he's like, That's you know really hard when you have a 19 or 20-year-old kid who'd rather be out there, you know, doing playing Xbox or running after girls or you know, whatever they're into in college, um, when you actually have them coming in saying, I want to dedicate time. And what started off as this concept of rehab, which we knew could have a really big impact once we started seeing the traction, um, it took about two, two to three years to kind of develop into this concept of recovery um and something that's kind of more of a mainstay in in athletic training rooms uh around the world.

It's been an interesting evolution for recovery. I I now that we're talking, I I remember when it first caught my attention, it was probably like 12 years ago, I had uh coach Bob Tacano, who is big in the USA weightlifting world. He came to uh my gym and he ran a workshop. And afterwards, uh, for my coaches and me and um or people who are just really into Olympic lifting. The uh I asked him, like, what you know, when you look at the United States and our athletes here, you know, what what what are we missing compared to other countries? And without a he didn't even skip a beat, he's like recovery. We don't talk about it nearly enough, and it's not a thing here. But you go to, you know, the Eastern Bloc or China, like they have, you know, dedicated it's it's it's training and recovery are synonymous with performance, right? And and we just seem to be missing the mark on recovery. We were just it was all about training, right? Train harder, you know, how much do I train? You know, reps, sets, schemes, all that stuff. It was just about the training, but no one was really talking about recovery yet. What do you, I mean, over the last decade, what what have you seen in the evolution of this category? Um, and what do you think has been fueling it so far?

I mean, I think you're totally right on recovery. Um, I always like to say you go back far enough, you would say recovery to someone, and they would say drug or alcohol.

Yeah.

You say, no, no, no, athlete recovery. And you would say, well, there's a problem. And now recovery doesn't mean problem. Recovery means um how can we get back to a place where you can compete at a higher level, whether that's training or an actual um game, competition, whatever your your sport of choice is for that day. And when we got started, um, some of the colleges picked it up, some of the NBA teams, and mostly the older guys who were trying to extend their careers by a season or two, get that last contract. And it wasn't until the U.S. Olympic Committee in Colorado Springs um picked up the technology, a guy named Dr. Bill Sands, who was their head sports physiologist, who started and was tapped to start their um Olympic recovery center in the springs. And he latched on to it. We became really good friends over the years. He's now since retired. Um, but when he got started, it was like, well, we have massages, we have ice baths, we have rest. And that never made sense to me. Massages made sense because you're trying to flush out the legs. And we've always known that flushing out the legs were important. Put your legs up on some pillows or up on a wall, you know, at the end of a day. Um you know, we used to see athletes do all the time. Massages feel really good, whether you're an athlete or not, it feels really good. Um, ice baths, and we can go into the science there, why it's maybe not as advantageous and can sometimes be negative depending on who you are and how you're using it. But it never made sense to me that we would be really passive about our recovery when we're so active about so many other things. And if you look at sports, any sport, whether it's weightlifting or basketball, baseball, I mean badminton, whatever it is, they kind of sit follow a similar trajectory where you're trying to improve performance. The first is well, we got to get the right coach, right? We all remember Hoosier's 1950s, you're gonna get the coach, we're gonna, you know, go to State, it's gonna be awesome. Great movie. Bill Bowerman with Nike, um, obviously before with University of Oregon. Um, and and the coach was really important. And you need a good coach for sure, need a whole coaching staff. Well, then what else is there? Well, then there's the training, right? We're smarter than we're just you know running laps until we drop anymore, or going in the gym and lifting as hard as possible. You look at guys like LeBron and their lifting schedule, and it's eye-opening how much these guys are not really kind of just powerlifting the way that you would think an athlete who needs to perform at his or her best is really doing it. A lot of it is stretching, a lot of it is movement, a lot of it is longevity, lengthening muscles, and kind of getting yourself to a place where you're really good, in addition to a lot of the cardio and strengthening that they have to do, but it's not nearly as much kind of just pushing plates around the way that you know people used to back in the 80s. Then it came to um gear, uh, where you know Air Jordan's gonna make you dunk because it's a cooler shoe and and it's it's got better loft and all the other things that go into it. Um, and then in the 90s, 80s, 90s, it really started around nutrition, right? So it was coaching, um, training, gear, nutrition. And the question is, what is that next evolution to enhance performance? Again, legally, right? Because we know you talked about Eastern Bloc and China, and there's things that go on in in some of those countries, obviously, that um are less than uh ideal from a uh sports um cleanliness perspective. Um but from a legal perspective, if you can focus on what your body needs in a given moment, and that's can sometimes obviously be different athlete to athlete, and within an athlete, based on what they got going on uh you know, uh in in their given day, can be different. Um, but when you can focus on that, and and that concept, I guess, getting back to it, of being passive never made sense. We're so active on so many other levels with our nutrition, with our training, and with our you know, mindfulness and everything else that goes into it, um, being passive about something that you're literally doing, even if you work out four hours a day, five hours, six hours, go crazy, six hours a day, right? That's still 18 hours a day that you're not working out. Take another hour to eat, right? Well, what are you doing the rest of the time? And just to take time off never made sense. So focusing on your recovery and doing it in a way that really works and feels good, and that's that's the double thing, right? So again, you gotta have something that athletes are gonna want to do, even if it works, um, they need to keep coming back to it. It's gotta be easy, it's gotta be um able to be consumable, travel with them. Some of these other modalities that are out there that you know some teams will use, they'll have one cryo chamber, which is awesome in many instances, but no one's going on the road with a cryo chamber. Um, even if you wanted to do an ice bath, you're going to 7-Eleven to pick up you know 30 bags of ice. Um, not everyone has you know that um in their backyard. So figuring out kind of what tools you can use that you're going to use that feel really good, you get the most bang for your buck, because you obviously can't also just sit around all day and just be in a in a modality. That's not going to work either for people, even if you're a pro athlete. Um and we have we found over the years that Normatex seems to be one of those consistent things that people keep coming back to.

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How far do you think it's Terry Bradshaw coined that, right? He was like, once you've been in an NFL, one NFL play, it's like you've been in a car crash. Um and it's unbelievable. And that's why you know some injuries are up, and and some of the types of injuries that you're seeing are different than it was in the 70s and 80s, even with more pads, just because of the size of these guys. I forget the exact stat, but if you look at kind of offensive linemen average body weight um in the 70s and 80s versus in the 2000s, I mean it's it's like 30 or 40 pounds heavier, and and they're able to kind of breed these athletes from an early age, because that's what the sport requires. And in some, you know, some ways it's great, in some ways it's not so great. Um, to get back to your question about where does this end, you know, I think Cressy's right. Um you don't know. I don't think we're gonna see a sub one hour um marathon. I mean, I think it has to be you know within reason. Um, but Bill Sands, who is a sports scientist at the U.S. Olympic Committee, had to go into US weightlifting when he started with the Normotech and said, listen, your athletes are actually recovering faster now with this Normotech modality. Don't just start loading up um your barbells with more and more weights, even if you think they can do it, because at some point, the natural structure of the body, right, with with with the tendons and the muscles and ligaments and and bones, it can only do kind of so much. So I think we're gonna start to see um some of this. And I love using the analogy of going back to Roger Bannister, I think it was the 50s, right, with a sub-four minute mile. Yep. And now high school athletes, you know, the top-tier high school athletes, runners in that distance are hitting sub-four minute miles like it's nothing. Um I shouldn't say nothing, but you know, they can absolutely do it. It's not just world class caliber athletes anymore. So it's gonna be really interesting, and I think we're finally at the point where people are now zeroing in on those things that are um I I think with recovery um and nutrition becoming completely mainstream. Um I'm really curious to see what's gonna happen over the next five to ten years. It's going to be interesting.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. So your uh, I guess, merger with uh hyperize, tell me about that. Like how did how did that come about? Um it was over the last few years, right? Yeah, give me some details on that. I'm I'm really curious to find out how that happened and what that means for for you and your business.

Yeah. So uh NormaTech was acquired by HyperIce in March 2020, right before the pandemic. Um it was great timing on a whole bunch of different levels. Certainly. Um and it really started with HyperIce's founder, Anthony Katz. Him and I met through the industry, probably going back to 2014, 2015, and we would just see each other at conferences and shows and kind of, you know, touch base. And we kind of developed this organic friendship and talk about a lot uh in business and outside of business. And we just realized we were um kind of uh, you know, we developed this kinship on a bunch of different levels. But over the years, I'd call him or he'd call me just to kind of shoot the shit about industry stuff that um it's kind of hard to find someone who, you know, if if you run a company and you have the challenges um that come with running a company, um, it's kind of a lonely world sometimes. Not everyone understands your position, not everyone understands some of the things you're grappling with, the HR issues, the manufacturing issues, um uh team issues, whatever you got going on, right? There's a million things that are going on in a given day. So it was really great to have someone that was kind of on a parallel track, so to speak, that was starting off a little bit after we did, but but pretty close in time, and would see a lot of the um training rooms and athletes and work and rub shoulders with a lot of these um individuals. And what started to happen is that I would go into an athletic training room in the NBA, NFL, NHL, whatever it is, and see his stuff, and he would do the same thing and see my stuff. And we were constantly ping-ponging contacts back and forth. He would say, Oh, I got this guy at this gym out in LA, and you know, he wants some Normatex, you know, text him up, here's the stuff. And I would do the same thing. Oh, this guy, you know, out here wants your stuff, and um, you know, give him a call and he's looking forward to uh hearing from you. And at some point, we were just literally, it was like some random Thursday, we were just talking. I think I was on my way home where I was walking around, and and I like to walk and talk. It helps fuel my brain activity, I guess. Um people know that I kind of put depressions in the parking lot outside of work, just kind of going in circles. Some people call it like what a caged animal will do, just circling around, but I don't know. I just I think better that way. And we just started talking, we're like, you know, what's the potential that we could be more powerful together as opposed to just kind of working separately and what would that look like? And when we started kind of diving into it along with Hyperaces CEO uh Jim Heather, who's just awesome, um, we started kind of putting a plan together and um it went pretty quickly. And one of the interesting things was because we were friends going into it, and because we had a similar vision of where we wanted the kind of technology to go and where we wanted the industry to go, and we were very on the same page about that, um, the acquisition happened really quickly. And our lawyers kind of both said to us, This is probably the quickest acquisition of the size that we've ever been a part of, because every time the lawyers would run in, and we need lawyers, we love lawyers many times, but every time they would run in to a problem head on and lock horns, we would say, time out, turn to either Anthony or myself, depending on you know who's paying your bill that month, and um we'll work it out. And him and I would just text or call about it, and we'd go back to our lawyers and say, Yep, this is what we want to do, and you know, put it in a dock. So um it worked out really well. And and since the acquisition, obviously COVID has been uh an interesting thing to navigate, as everyone's had to navigate it. Um, but it's it's been awesome. Um originally Hyperice, you know, based in Irvine, California, Normatech based uh right outside Boston and Watertown, Massachusetts. We became the East Coast um arm of HyperIce. Uh they were able to absorb a lot of our people kind of very quickly and right off the bat, it increased the size of the overall organization and um brought kind of a new ethos to uh to the forefront that we've been able to really kind of work to envelop and develop into kind of this new new company, um, which we're really excited about. And one of the things that always persists is this kind of desire to continue to innovate. And a lot of the things that we um have come out with and that we're working on now has really just been um because of the marriage of companies and um the brain power, the brain trust that we've been able to bring forward with our great engineers and um individuals that we work with to develop stuff, uh it's just been really, really cool. Um and it's it's worked out great. I know not every founder that sells a company can can say that, but um, you know, almost three years on, I'm I'm still working every day and um excited to be here. And um it's it's been really, really tremendous.

Oh, that's great, man. Congratulations. And you know, uh, I want to unpack that a little bit. I mean, the innovation side of things, uh, you know, what what's been new, I guess, over the last six months? And, you know, just for people to know, we're recording this in Q1 2023. But uh what's new and and what's what's on the docket? What do you guys plan on releasing? Share what you can, of course.

Yeah, well, we don't generally talk about all the things that we're kind of working on. Um, some things take longer than than others, and and surprises both ways. Some things come out quickly and some things take longer. Um, and we have a lot of regulatory because this is such high-powered equipment, um, a lot of our stuff goes through, whether it's FDA or other ISO regulatory bodies to make sure that we're coming out with stuff that's safe and effective for individuals around the world. Um, but some of the stuff that we came out with towards the end of last year was how do we take the Normatech technology with you know larger leg boots connected to a machine and make them even more portable and kind of uh deployable, I guess, in other situations? Because again, the mindset is um the technology can be the best thing in the world, but if you can't get athletes to access it because it's too expensive, because it's too big, because it's too cumbersome, um, that doesn't help anybody. So we got to lower the price, we got to make it more accessible, gotta use it in more environments. We realized a lot of people were sitting at their desks, a lot of people were um kind of hanging around. And um, whether you're at your desk, you're on a plane, using the Normatech was a little bit cumbersome. So we came out with this awesome um tool called the NTGO or Normatech Go. It's these calf wraps that go around your calves and they sink automatically and wirelessly, and they can massage in a similar Normatech pattern to what really kind of gets the job done. But the calf is really the heart of the lower body. Um in fact, um if you've had a grandparent or know an athlete who's injured and they're not really ambulatory, they're not walking around, they're in a wheelchair, they're just sitting or whatever it is for long periods of time, your kind of ankle kind of gets swollen. You see, especially with kind of older folks that aren't ambulating, you know, that it kind of spills over their shoe. I remember looking at one of my great-grandmas growing up, and I'm like, A, how do you put your shoe on in the morning? And B, like, there's no way I'm ever going to turn into that. Uh, obviously, you think different things when you're eight years old. Um, but the whole point is that that heart down below is pulsating when you're kind of moving forward. It's activating through the calf muscle action. So having that is really important. So we were able to kind of zero in on the calf as kind of the most important aspect of the lower body, and it feels really good. And you're on a plane, you strap these things on, um, they're basically silent and uh they just tremendous.

Yeah, they are awesome. That's the ones that I've been I've been using. I really enjoy it. So I one of the questions I have to ask is that, you know, it seems like obviously athletes gravitate towards this. They have a very, they're very motivated to recover more. Um, and then I call it the one percents on either end. So like the high performers on one end, and then on the other end of the spectrum, there's the people um struggling with disease or sickness. And what about the middle, the other 98%? Like what who what markets are you starting to see uh you know growth in um as far as like you know uh specific types of consumers? And uh is there anything that's surprised you so far?

Yeah, it's really it's great. I'm gonna take your east-west continuum. I'm just gonna flip it 90 degrees. Um, I've always thought about things as like a pyramid where you look at the top 1%, and those are the best performers in the world, the the pros, um, maybe the top 2%, those are the individuals who are training like pros. Um, we've done a lot in triathlon, running, cycling. Um unbelievable subset of athlete that goes into that. They literally train like they're they're pros and the amount of time you have to put in to do a half iron man, let alone an Iron Man, uh, in terms of training, 10, 20, 30, 40 hours a week, it's it's just unbelievable. Um and then you have obviously the base of the pyramid, which are those individuals, whether it's disease, whether it's illness, whether it's um old age, that maybe aren't going to be your prime kind of targets. Although it's really interesting, though, with a lot of the Normotech technologies and hyperice technologies, we're able to affect really awesome outcomes in those populations as well. But if you look kind of at that middle section of the pyramid, it's really exciting because when we start at the top of the pyramid with the best in the world, that was my objective and Anthony Katz's uh objective too at HyperIce. Let's start with the best in the world, let's learn from them. Some companies start at the bottom and try to work their way up to something that a pro would eventually use. But I said, let's start with the best. They can afford anything, they can use anything, they do use anything that they want, and let's get that feedback. And we continue to do so. As we access those next few subsequent kind of lower down tier levels, what we find is those are the bulk of people, right? Most people aren't right at the bottom 1, 2%, obviously, and they're in that you know, middle, 80, 90% range. So, how do we access them? So, whether it's education, whether it's going to retailers like Best Buy, like like Target, um, and having our products there in an area where now even those retailers are starting to recognize that recovery, wellness, rejuvenation is not just a buzzword that an NBA individual will use, but something that everybody is kind of craving. We all, you know, just about everyone wants to age as as well as we can for as long as we can, right? It's not just about how many years you have on this earth, it's how many life, how much life you have in those years. And um we all want to kind of just move as effectively with the least amount of pain. I just hit 40, so um things are not the same as uh when I was 20 uh for sure. Um, but what can we do to kind of feel as good as we can? Because when that happens, one life is better, and two, you're also gonna reduce the rate of injury because you're not gonna be pulling from other muscle groups when you're trying to overcompensate. Uh, we all know we do that. We have a heavy squat day. The next two days we're let's say it's kind of sore, and all of a sudden we're now pulling with our lower back as opposed to bending because our glutes hurt and our quads hurt, um, and all of a sudden that's where more injuries start to happen. That's just one of many examples, obviously, that's out there. Um, but yeah, we're really excited to see, and there's just so many humans that are out there, so many people that are out there that this technology really helps. And um that's kind of been from a business standpoint, um, our focus over the last few years is starting to access those individuals through education and through placement of the product so that they can really try it. Very much so, we're an experiential product. You can read all the signs, you can read all the um you know buzz things and see the pictures, the marketing pieces that we put out, which I feel are are pretty good. But you you put the boots on, you use the hypervolt, you use some of our Venom uh heat line products, and it just instantaneously you know that it works. You don't have to use it for three weeks to see results.

Yeah, yeah. And I would imagine too that partnerships uh are significant um as far as the importance for growth. And I'm particularly curious about two areas of partnerships for you guys, uh like the the technology slash wearable, right? Because that's that's where people are starting to become more aware of of recovery. Um, you know, people have, you know, whether it be an Apple Watch or a Fitbit or a Whoop, you know, recovery is starting to become part of their nomenclature and what they do every day and they're aware of it. Um that's one. And then the other one is the evolution of the category of wellness third places, right? So the restore hyper wellness, the um pause studios, the uh who else recently, serotonin centers, remedy place, all these areas where it becomes, you know, wellness is becoming the focus, not just a secondary service. So maybe start with technology. Like what what partnerships have you guys seen work so far? And as, you know, what ones would you be interested in?

Um yeah. So going, I guess, to your first point, um, you mentioned Woop. We actually just launched, uh, I think it was like a week or so ago, a partnership with Whoop where people are able to access more data from their Whoop uh with HyperIce and vice versa to be able to glean more information. So what's really cool about these technologies that are out there from a wearable perspective is that not only are we able to discern more information from the body, but we can do it in a more complete kind of way before um, and and this is where the tech, what I'm really excited about. You asked me before we kind of jumped on officially here, kind of what some of my passions are from an industry perspective. I think what I'm most excited about from an industry perspective is as these wearables become more integrated, whether it's into shirts or underwear or belts or whatever the thing is, and I still think that we're trying to figure this out as an industry. It's not quite there yet. Obviously, you have the Fitbits, the apples, the whoops, you're doing more risk-based stuff. Um, but when you can start integrating it, it's less of a thought, it's just like an automatic, yeah, now I have that data. What do we do with that data? How do we interpret that data and then make adjustments to given routines based on that data? And as we talked about, not everyone is the same. And intra person, right? There's you might be about to come down with something, you might be getting over something, you might have worked out really hard, you might be just lazy for a couple of days, and your body's gonna present differently. So being able to take that kind of minute-to-minute data and be able to interpret it in a way that's going to allow you to kind of tweak things is is super important. Um, and I'm kind of really, really excited about that. Um, I think more data in many ways, the better these days. And we're doing some studies now with Woo, figuring out both how it affects sleep and overall what's going on with individuals and how some of the hyperized technologies, Normotech technologies, are really impacting um individuals and how we can kind of squeeze the most juice um out of the berry, so to speak.

Yeah, yeah, interesting. It makes a lot of sense, those partnerships do. And uh, you know, I had Alex Adorne from Aid Sleep On recently, and some of the stuff they're doing with that technology where they think it can go is mind-boggling. Like it's not just, you know, okay, how well I slept and you know, sleep fitness, but you know, her vision for it was this could become the centerpiece of all like health. Like imagine if your mattress notified you of any significant health changes and risks that may occur from that. Like, you know, it's monitoring blood pressure and all kinds of different things, and it just gives you heads up, uh, a warning really of things that could go wrong. It's it's it's gonna be, I mean, we are living in the Jetsons and it's only gonna get crazier and crazier. What about uh, gee, the the evolution of that category I was discussing, the wellness third places? Because I would imagine, you know, like you said, it's experiential, right? People need to go in and use it. And these places seem to be a great opportunity for people to try it for the first time and then maybe decide, God, I love this. I want to get it in my house.

For sure. So, you know, they cater to a couple of different um aspects of life. What's interesting about some of these locations and and um a lot of partnerships that we have with some of the people you mentioned and a lot of others that are out there is that it's kind of a one-stop shop, and that's where you go, and that's what people want. Sometimes gyms will incorporate this um as well. Um I was listening to the podcast that you had done a week or so ago with um the executive from Equinox. And same kind of concept there is how can we give the most to our individuals that are coming through our doors? Um, if you want to sign up for one of these kind of standalone clinics where you can go in and get the most, um, is it's tremendous. I mean, you feel like you're being pampered. It's like a spa next level, next level spa. Um, and it feels really good. Question is, how often can you kind of go into those? And a lot of times, some of the technology, some of the infrared, some of the cryo, um, some of the other things that they're um presenting there that feel really good, and there's a lot of science behind it, are tremendous in those environments because people generally can't afford, you know, a hundred thousand dollar uh cryo machine at home or don't have the space for an infrared sauna. Um, where we find that we're kind of hitting our stride uh from a business perspective is being able to both be impactful in those areas, in those environments, but also be something that is well within reach of a consumer to be able to pick up for five, six, seven hundred bucks on the high end of our technology, let alone some of the hypervolt stuff, and have at home. Um you come out to the cost per session of a Normatech, and while you know it costs six, seven hundred bucks to access a pair of our um uh NormaTech 3 um boots and machine, um it really comes out to about a buck or two a session when you amortize it over the course of you know however long you're gonna have it for, and the compressor will last forever. So you're not gonna if you kill a compressor, come back, talk to me, you get the you get the prize because we haven't seen one of those yet. Challenge accepted. Um But no, I mean it's it's really cool. It's it's just kind of being able to see what where the industry is going and that these things are popping up and that people are accessing them again is just probably a testament to how much people are looking and craving feeling good and and being able to be at their absolute best, whatever that means, because obviously that's different person to person.

Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. And I always like to cover too, just the the business numbers and and share what you can. You know, stuff as far as like, you know, where are you guys at now, number of employees, investment come in, you know, if you want to share revenue numbers, that's great. But give us some some ideas of what scale you're at now.

Yeah, so um we don't generally share um too much information on that front. Um I've always found, and and again, another area where Anthony and I and Jim have always been aligned where you know we we work really hard. If you throw out big numbers, people sometimes will think you're bigger than you are. If you throw out small numbers, people think you're smaller than you are. Um, and numbers can kind of change. I can tell you that what we've seen and where the industry is going has only kind of grown. Um we're sitting at about um, again, I don't want to get too too into the nitty-gritty of the numbers. Um, right now we're we're feeling really good, um, both in terms of what we've been able to accomplish this past year. But what we're most excited about is when we actually look at how many people we've penetrated, how many people the technologies um generically have penetrated, it's a very, very small fraction. You look at how many people know about massage guns in the industry, yes. But how many people are not in the industry? It's so many, right? The vast majority of people. So while you know 10 or 15% of households may have a massage gun, um, the fact that 70 to 80 percent don't even know what percussion is, don't know what pneumatic compression and Normotech is, um, is just really, really exciting for us because that means that there's a lot more runway for us to kind of go hit. We haven't saturated the market like some technologies have. And all right, now you saturated the market, now what do you do? You know, um, you're in trouble. So for us, we're really excited about being able to kind of see that with the pros and early adopters kind of now zeroing in on what this is, um, some of those facilities you talked about, um, promoting that as well and kind of having the discussion, like we are, around recovery and what does that mean? Recovery, rejuvenation, feeling good. You're not just injured, but you're coming back and wanting to hit it harder and better the next day. Um, because we haven't kind of tapped that out yet, um, and there's a lot more to come, we're really excited about that right on.

So uh in the spirit of collaboration, what what is it that you need right now? You know, as far as you know, if the audience is listening and you want people to reach out to you or or engage with what you guys are doing? Is there any, you know, are you building a team? Are you guys looking for more investment? Are you guys looking for partnerships? What's uh all of the above? What do you need right now, G?

Yeah, so we actually closed around not too long ago. So from an investment standpoint, um, you know, never turned down a good conversation, but um we're we're in a healthy spot right now. Um we are looking for certain uh key individual players. We have some openings that are there. Uh we also have just a really phenomenal team that has stuck with us through COVID uh that we're really excited about continuing to build um with. And overall, you know, our mission every day is come out with the best stuff we possibly can at a price point that makes sense and uh hopefully, you know, highlight the benefits uh while we're giving access to the technology. Um that has that that really has kind of um allowed us to get to this point and something that we're gonna continue to do as we push into uh 23 and beyond. Excellent.

And uh if you want the audience to go somewhere online either to uh you know get more information or maybe reach out to you personally, where would you like them to go?

Sure. Yeah, so obviously check out hyperice.com. We got all kinds of uh media pieces up there with all the athletes and all the great technologies that we have. Um, and just go on the website, shoot us an email, give us a call if you have any questions. Uh we really want people, obviously, to get knowledgeable about the products, but also ask any questions. And it never really made sense to me that you'd sell a product and while good, because now you've gotten you know the revenue, if it just sits around and isn't being utilized, that never made sense to me because that's not what I would want as a consumer to spend money and not use it. Um but B, from a marketing standpoint, we count on all of the units that go out, whatever the product is, being kind of placement in the hands of someone else to say, hey, you know, I just got this new tool, come out and check my Normatech out, check my hypervolt out, check out my my new Venom uh, you know, two uh heated and vibrate, you know, vibratory back. And it feels really good. So people are gonna come over, tell them to bring beer or pizza or five bucks or you know, whatever it is, or maybe you owe them something, and this is something you can give back. Um and that for us has always been a really awesome marketing opportunity. So call up, ask questions, and uh we want you happy. If you're not happy, give us a call also, we'll talk it out.

Yeah, right on, G. Well, this is uh I I you know, overall, I just really like your vibe. Your story is pretty fascinating. I mean, starting with your mom and the technology she did and the way you kind of took the reins and pushed it to where it is now is pretty incredible. And uh, I love stories like that. So it's it's it's awesome. And uh yeah, overall, just really appreciate you coming on. Congratulations on all your success so far. Uh I'm more than excited to see where this this whole industry, the recovery side of things goes. I think it's uh it's wide open, it's exciting, and you know, I don't think anyone really knows for sure, but uh it's gonna be a wild ride.

All right, well, we'll have to do this again in another year or two and uh see where things are at.

Yeah, I look forward to it. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. Gila Jacobs. Uh hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, on iTunes, Spotify, Catbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share, put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the feature of fitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I'd love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Mildone, and this is the feature of Fitness. Have a great day.