Under Promise and Over Deliver - Fabio Zonin

It was all about getting new clients. And I was looking at this like from 50,000 feet and saying, that's wrong. That's wrong. Why should we always look for new clients? We should look first at well, keeping the ones we have by satisfying them. So why should we always look at new people? This is the problem.

Hey fitness fans, welcome back to the Future Fitness Podcast and Interview Series. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and we are in episode number one, one, three. It's crazy to me. Every time I say the number of the episode, I'm like, wow, I did that many. And then you count in uh fitness blitz, and it's like 450 episodes in the past year. Wow. Anyway, so this one is all about Fabio Zonin and Strong First. So um Fabio's just a cool guy. You know, I really enjoyed my conversation with him, all the conversations I've had with Fabio. He's just a really, really cool guy. Um he's got uh he's accumulated an incredible amount of knowledge um about training and business. And as the CEO of Strong First, obviously he's there for a reason. Uh it's quite a big organization. And I talk about this frequently in the podcast is I'm always impressed when I come across uh people who are strong first within that community. And it just seems like this top-down um emphasis on quality of training, and uh it just really permeates throughout the organization. So it's impressive. And I'm always curious, you know, how organizations or communities like that, tribes, if you will, um, start that and instill it and keep it because you know it's a lot of quality control. And yeah, so it's it's just really insightful. And we have talked about too, uh, you probably didn't see this coming, but we talked about marketing, right? Is it enough nowadays to be just a great coach or a great wellness professional or a great health practitioner? Is it enough? I guess you can argue both sides. I say no. I think you have to be good at marketing. And one of the issues that we have with marketing in the fitness industry nowadays is um making offers that don't align with the values of the actual fitness professional. And you know what I'm talking about. The hooks, right? Get people in and we'll sort it out after. Um, is there a better way? I think there is. Uh, we just need to stop making those damn offers. And uh yeah, anyway, obviously I'm passionate about it because it's it's something I want to change. I want to have a more authentic uh approach to fitness as a profession overall. And I think Fabio shares those those values as well, and uh that's why I enjoyed interviewing. So uh before we get into the interview, I want to give a shout out to Alan Noyd. Um, he uh subscribed to our podcast, left a great um review, and he says, Eric truly is a mastermind. Well, thank you. Uh, when it comes to bringing the best of fitness professionalism to light, I've been listening for months and have gained some of the most valuable knowledge that I've ever had in all of my years in the industry. Start listening today, exclamation point. Thank you, Alan. I really appreciate it, man. And uh yeah, so if you haven't, please go to um iTunes and subscribe to the Future of Fitness Podcast. While you're there, you might as well subscribe to the Fitness Blitz Radio as well and leave us a review. Greatly appreciate it, goes a long way. And uh yeah, so let's get on to it. Number 113 with Fabio Zonin, CEO of Strong First. Enjoy the show. And we're live. Fabio, welcome to the show, man. Hey, great to see you again. Yeah, you and last time. Yeah, you and I've been waiting for this for a long time. Yeah, me too. Me too. So excited about being here. Yeah, me too. So um, I know who you are. Let's just start off with with a quick bio, man. Give us a little bit about what you do, and then we'll get into um you know some of the stories behind you.

Well, at the moment I am a master of Strong First instructor. Uh I teach for Strong First uh all the three modalities, catapult, barbel, and body weight. I teach the Plant Strong seminars. I also into the Strongfirst HQ as a CEO, but I that doesn't really matter. It doesn't give any added value to my teaching skills. So that's uh that's a side thing, side information. I'm a former uh powerlifter, former natural bodybuilder. I've been working for almost 20 years for the Italian Federation of Fitness. Uh, this until 2012, and then I joined Strong First and I started working full-time with Strongfirst and promoting Strongfirst in my country. Um what else?

Uh where are you, Fabio?

Well, I am currently close to Venice, Northern Italy. Nice. This is where I am right now. Oh, by the way, another couple of things I'm doing. I'm helping out um Flexible Steel Program by John Ingram, uh working with Gran Force Method here in Europe and uh regional strength, uh FMS, uh all related, all uh systems that are somehow related to strong first and what we do. Awesome. So you uh you mentioned that you're close to the Alps. Oh yeah, yeah. We were just disclosing, we were talking before I started recording, and I told and we were talking about a temperature here. Yes, I'm close to the Alps. So I'm uh you know, Venice is uh in a gulf and it's it's uh it's a valley, but we're surrounded by by mountains. And I live a little bit northern from Venice, so I'm getting higher. I'm surrounded by Alps and snow right now.

Yeah, that's so cool. I um so totally off target of what we're talking about in the fitness right now is I'm a huge fan of uh well, A, I'm an avid skier, and uh and I love you know backcountry and I also love Anthony Bourdain, uh whether people know him or not, but he's you know recently passed last year and he has a show and he had an episode that I just watched two nights ago on the Alps about the French and Italian Alps. Man, it's on my it's on my goal for 2019 to get out there and and ski, and uh it looks beautiful. Like Well, let me know.

I'll take you somewhere.

Yeah, I'm in the Rockies now, and I can tell you it's beautiful here, but some of the pictures knows some of the things that I see from from the Alps are just outstanding. So, you know, I guess one of the first questions I have for you, just because it popped to mind, is being in Europe, right? Um, you know, we're all on our own kind of like silos, you know, here in the States. Being in California, it was like kind of a different brand of fitness being um up here in Montana, it's a different brand of fitness. I'm sure it's in in what are the differences do you think, you know, because the majority of the people who listen to the show are from North America and United States. Is there any differences you notice being a fitness and health practitioner in Europe versus being here in the States? Because I know you travel all over.

Yeah. It actually uh if we we have two different realities. We have the commercial gyms, and then we have personal training studios and uh uh crossfeed boxes and functional training gyms and so on and so forth. So commercial gyms actually, even if they look similar, are totally different. I one thing that amazes me when I go in the US, you go to any commercial gym, you just pay your daily uh subscription, you go in and you do whatever you want. Wouldn't happen here. Can't happen. Uh you you need to you know you need to have an instructor telling you what to do here, it wouldn't allow you. So as far as for um as far as for uh regular fitness gyms, probably there is more concern about safety for students and teaching them good form and so on. So this is one thing. On the other side, uh there is not the level of knowledge is not that high. So sometimes I end up going to some commercial gyms, and I found some instructors uh stopping me while I was bench pressing and correct me be correcting because hey, you're arching your back, you shouldn't do so. So lift your feet up and your knees up so that your back is flat on the bench. So and you have to take that advice because it's the gym where they work, you're a guest, and that's their rules. So that's interesting on one side. So uh so benefit, good sides and downsides of that. As far as for personal training studios and uh that type of gyms, like like what the strong first gyms are, it's growing now. I mean, we used to have until a few years ago, uh not many chains. So usually the owner of the gym was also uh the one who would teach and do the cleaning and uh register people, you know, and so chains have been have been growing lately on one side, and on the other side, the uh medium-sized gyms kind of disappeared and started appearing the small personal training studios. So either you are into a reality where uh huge place and low price, lots of people, cardio, machines, and so on, or you go into this small personal training studio where you're follow from the moment you enter the door until you get out and you have personalized plans and and so on. And of course, this gives lots of business opportunities for new instructors who work to work and wants to uh want to work with high quality and do not have too much to invest in equipment. Just imagine, just put a cardio equipment in your in your gym. If you it costs you just the cardio, a couple of treadmills and a few bikes would cost you more than opening the CrossFit box. Yeah, yeah. So this part, personal training studios, small gyms, functional training gyms, is growing right now. CrossFit is pretty is pretty big. It's been growing a lot. We have been growing a lot of strong first here. Um I mean, we have, I don't, I don't want to lie, so I just throw a number there. I might be not accurate, but I think we have close to 500 instructors here. Or 500 instructors, strong first instructors. So, and some of them work in regular fitness gym, the rent to room there, some of them have their own gym, some open their studios, and it's working pretty well because quality pays off in the long term.

Yeah, yeah, in long term. In the long term. Yes, and that's that's what's interesting. And I think you know, after I talked to a lot of fitness professionals, as you know, um I've seen a lot of good people, really, really good people, leave the industry because of the frustration over um kind of this it's not a phenomenon at all, but it's it's the promises of significant, you know, transformation in six weeks of you know these these 21-day resets. Uh you know what I'm talking about, right? Even you know, I even saw a five days delen one. Um and uh you know, I don't fault anybody who's running those programs necessarily because they they probably they need marketing, they need clients, right? So they're going to the the path of least resistance, what's the what they see, what's working in the market, be like, hey, they're doing it down the street, I gotta do it too, right? Um, and I think that is the crux of a big problem that we have within the fitness profession is how do we how do we market and if I had an answer for this dude, I would be I would own my own island by now, right? But how do we how do we market honesty, transparency, the long-term play to our clients effectively when someone down the street is gonna say, Hey, I'll give you a six-pack abs in you know five weeks, right? Uh so do you want that answer? Because I want an island.

Oh yeah, it's it's gonna be a long talk. I'm sorry for not for this. So this is the main problem because you see, uh, I give you an analogy with kettlebells. Uh cannibals are bad for your back. Uh no, cannibals are not bad for your back. You may be bad for your back. Cannibal stays there, it's a tool, it doesn't have its own life. If you leave the kettlebell on the ground, it stays on the ground. I got a few there, they don't move. So they can't hurt my back. The only person who can hurt his back, who can hurt my back with a cannibal is me. Right?

Right.

So it's about having the right instruction and know how to do things. So when people enter those six weeks programs for becoming fit and healthy in six weeks, losing 20 pounds in six weeks, getting muscle mass, and so on. If they fail, if those plans fail, and people don't get results or people get injured, the problem is that the general perception is that fitness doesn't work. So those who don't deliver quality give a hard time to those who do deliver quality because they lower the credibility of the industry. This is the main problem. So we have to deal with this first. And I recall, and sorry, I'm gonna go long here, uh, when I was working into the uh uh fitness industry with itself, and we were you know uh going through marketing seminars and so on and so forth, and also uh my the federation I was uh where I belong, I used to belong, they used to run marketing courses, and I realized one thing it was all about getting new clients, and I was looking at this like from 50,000 feet and saying, that's wrong. That's wrong. Why should we always look for new clients? We should look first at well, keeping the ones we have by satisfying them, and probably their word of mouth will be the best to bring new customers for us. So why should we always look at new people? This is the problem. So fitness centers and you know have been growing in number incredibly in the past 20 years. So they do need to bring new customers on board. So their strategy for uh for winning against the competition has been lowering the prices, widening the offer, and uh trying to get as many people as possible roll in now. So short-term view. Register today, don't matter what you do tomorrow. And and in my in my point of view, uh the success of a fitness center is not how many people this center registered in one year, is the ratio between how many people this center is registering in one year and what is the average number of students that are going to the place. Because if I register 2,000 students in a year, but I have an average of 200 every month, I'm gonna lose very soon. If I only register 500 in a year, but I have an average of 350, probably I'm a winner. So the the problem is this is the focus has been and still is making an offer by saying this is gonna cost you less, you're gonna save money, and then you're gonna have results, and then don't deliver the results and overpromise and under deliver. Uh this works in the short term, of course. But here's the problem when someone doesn't get results and get goes away from your fitness center, he will not spend nice words about you and your fitness center. Right. You need word of mouth is the best promotion ever, and also creating community within a fitness center keeps it active and makes it grow. So when you go in a place and you see the same people all the time, you make friends with them, you gather with them, you want to go there. I was amazed uh uh it uh this this summer I was in LA and I was training at goals all the time, and that place works because everyone knows each other there. I mean, you see Arnold popping in, it's Arnold, no one cares. I mean, I almost had a heart attack when I saw Arnold doing it. I went too. Yeah, I went too. I go like good morning, and he goes, hi. Arnold say hi to me. And so I for one month I was hot Arnold training there, I was training here. Good morning, good morning, and yeah, regular, but people know each other, always the same people. So there was there is some community there. So this is something that works. If you just think about selling a product, fitness is not a product that you sell, it's something that you do for your life. You can't think, oh, I gotta get fit in six weeks, okay, and then what's next? You're gonna lose it. So short term is what we see, long term is educating people, and you may lose many at the beginning because those who come to you looking for quick results, and you can't promise them quick results because you know you wouldn't be able to fulfill that promise, they might go somewhere else and listen to those who do give this promise. But if they'll go away, most likely they'll come back to you at one point. So you know, fitness and health is educating people to a different type of lifestyle, it's not a product you sell, it's uh it's um it's teaching them, it's making them grow, it's uh it's instilling into them some values that they will carry on and instilling in them some passion. Unfortunately, and a good example is the diet. Yes, uh diet is something that by definition, by definition, diet will fail. Right because the perception of diet is restriction, you can be under restriction for a certain amount of time, limited time. You can do that, it's an effort, but you know that at one point you will stop being on a diet. So it's something you do, you put some commitment, some effort into, but you can't sustain, it's not sustainable forever. However, if I educate you to eat well, and and I and you realize that not only you look better, but you feel better, and it's not a diet anymore, it becomes a lifestyle. And if it'll if it's a lifestyle, this will not mean that you will have to give up your whiskey or your beer or your pizza all of your life. It means you have a healthy lifestyle, you'll be always fit, and sometimes you will just enjoy yourself. And you don't really need any restriction because you do realize that you feel better the way you the way you're eating currently. So educating people is different than giving them a six-week program, six-week plan. Most of the people will not be able to complete the plan. Those who will complete it, they might have some results, but then results will be will not last. And this is the same thing that applies to the difference between a workout and a plan. You know, I mean, what's a workout? Um, you go to the gym, you do something. Usually, my idea of a workout, I'm thinking about those and reps, as many reps as possible in a certain amount of time, you know, or stuff like that, or how many rounds you can complete, or how how long can you sustain a certain exercise, and so on and so forth. That is not a training session, that is a test. Right. When you test once in a while, you don't test all the time, you train yourself all the time because one day you test yourself and you see if you've been improving in something, but your 99% of your sessions should be training and practicing uh by you know, uh by adjusting the parameters so that whatever you do gradually leads to a goal, specific goal, a measurable goal. Once you measure that goal and you reach that goal, you will have a new goal. So the way in the long term, you know, we can communicate to our students is first of all, underpromise, over the liver rather than the opposite. Uh if you ask me, I want to lose 20 pounds in six weeks, and I don't think you can get it, I will tell. I'm sorry. I can't do that for you. Right. It's your decision. And I will and I will promise you something else. I will promise you to lose some weight, to feel better, to move better, to be stronger, and probably lose your 20 pounds within probably six months, but then keep your new body weight. If you like it, you'll stay with me. If you are in a hurry, you will go somewhere else. Most likely you will fail. Probably I'll see you one day again. You know when? Because here's the problem: they go somewhere else, and they uh they might not get the results, they might get injured, and they might think that that is not for them. Unless they hear that many, several other people who have chosen the other way, you know, the long-term way, did have results, so they might switch. Yeah. I had an experience of um, so my my wife, she's also a former bodybuilder, natural bodybuilder. She was good level, she won the nationals a couple of times. So she did a couple of European natural championships, but she was good. And uh, of course, she keeps training and uh she keeps herself in shape. Uh a young lady started training with her. A young lady, they trained together for a while. It was like the first probably three months, and uh she was still in the learning process. Then she met a guy, uh bodybuilder coach, of course, not a natural bodybuilding coach, and he promised her to take her to the on stage within six months to compete. Of course, she followed the advice. And I don't want to I don't want to list the suggestions, not only as far as for uh nutrition and training, but also you know, other stuff which barely legal or not legal. Uh what happened is that she at one point she she exploded. She couldn't she couldn't keep up with the rhythm anymore, and she completely gave up. But she also had some serious health issues. Now she and she's 25 years old, and now she has to take a substitute of thyroid hormone for the rest of her life because she did something wrong. And uh probably she will never train again.

Oh man.

And this is it, you know, young life ruined. This is an extreme scenario, extreme case. Sure. But those things happen. Those things happen. And uh this is what we need to fight with against with.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay, great, awesome answer, right? What we were just talking about. I I love it. I agree with everything. Yeah, no, it's great. It's it's great because that that's why we have a podcast that goes 45 to 75 minutes, is because answers don't come that easy, right? It has to be an actual discussion, uh, a conversation. Uh if you ask these these questions to the right people, you get a conversation. You're asking the wrong people, you get an argument, right? I like people who have conversations like you. And you know, one thing that I I found, you know, I so I'm my background is CrossFit gyms, right? So um built them up, you know, sold them, consulted. And you know, the the CrossFit thing is a phenomenon within itself, right? I mean, you guys, it's still young, but we had all these problems, right? You know, ultimately CrossFit lost the media war probably around 2012, right? Everyone said it's dangerous, too expensive, it's dangerous, it's dangerous, right? Essentially. And it's just like anything. It's like, well, does the barbell hurt people? Does a deadlift hurt people? No. No, the application thereof again. Yeah, it's the application thereof. Who's it for, who's it prescribed for? And that's where a lot of things went wrong. You know, you just had a lot of people low barrier entry getting in. I started my first CrossFit gym with Traver Boom for $30,000, right? And uh, you know, show me another business where you can get in there and uh and do something like that for $30,000. That's hard to beat. Yeah, definitely. But ultimately, you know, I think if I boil down even more, it's it's this struggle between how do we give people what they want so we can show them what they need, right? And uh, you know, people want um people want diets, right? But what they need is better habits, right? Yeah, exactly. People want accountability, but what they really need is personal responsibility, right? It's all these, it's the it's the want versus what they need. And I think um the most savvy of you know when it comes to a marketing standpoint, purely from marketing, that's all I'm talking about right now, is not the training, because we'll get into that in a little bit, but purely from a marketing standpoint is who delivers the message that um provides the signal to show people what they want, but then allows the mechanism to give them what they need and educate them over time. Like once I said, if I had that answer, I'd have an island, Fabio. You'd be welcome to come anytime. Um we can talk about you can teach me kettlebell training. Um, but I think that's that's the thing. And if people are listening today, I I I want you to deeply think about that. Take that question, go find a rock and sit on it for a while and figure out how you can do both. You know, because I can say I'm I'm no saint, dude. I I pulled trendy plenty of marketing tactics um that I'm not proud of because I needed the money, right? Um, during my gym. I had a tremendous amount of overhead. Um over time, I feel like I'm very ethical in the way I do. Thing it's not about me, but I think I'm like most people. It's like at certain points, you're like, you know what? Well, F it. I'm gonna try the six-week challenge, right? And you know what? It works in the short term. It works really well. It works. And some of those people stick around, small percentage, but they do. So, how do you shift that? How do you make it better? And that's you know, some of the things I'm working on nowadays in the marketing aspect is how do we take what we learned about, okay, we know what people want. How do we shift that, you know, in an elegant way to give fitness professionals who really know what they're doing a better opportunity to help more people? Um obviously, what you're saying, you know, having great quality, having a great service, being honest with integrity, and all those things will build over time. But sometimes we lose a lot of people in this industry because it doesn't happen in two, three years, and they don't have the patience, nor maybe the financial means, nor the situation that allows them to do it. Maybe they have a family to feed. So we lose great people. And uh, you know, and that's that's the thing that I would like to help be a solution to solve. And I want to keep the good people, right, Fabio? I mean, that's that's the point, is we want to keep the good people that will elevate the profession within itself. Uh we don't need more Instagram models, right? No, there's enough. There's enough. Um, so yeah, great insights, man. Uh, so I want to talk to you about, you know, you're very modest and humble about it, but you are the CEO of Strong First, right? That's a great it's a well-known organization. And one thing I've noticed, because I talk to a lot, I talk to a lot of Strong First people, um, very um very open to always coming on and talking about you know their methodologies, and there's always seems to be this core ethos, core value that runs straight through them, you know, all the way from top to bottom with everyone who's certified and part of the organization. And how do you, you know, if if I'm listening, I'm like, you know, I I want to have that type of core value within my organization. I'm a leader, right, of a tribe. What how do you start that? How do you get that going? What is obviously it comes from the top down, right? Yeah. But what what insights do you have?

Well, it's it's all about leading by example and believing in those principles in the first place. I I recall, I mean, when I used to work for the Italian Federation of Fitness, I was a member of the advisory board. I was the uh responsible for natural bodybuilding and for the federation and for uh functional training, and I had a very good pay, and I was all set. I did my RKC and I gave up the Italian Federation of Fitness, and it jumped in the dark because there were like four RKCs in Italy at the time. Uh, three got certified with me, and so I left everything. I risked, I could have failed completely. But the reason why I love the system is that I read the code of conduct, and I thought that's the key. Well, first of all, I recognized myself there because uh everything I achieved in my life, and trust me, I'm not genetically gifted, I am not a genius, whatever. I'm an average person as far as for athletes, knowledge, and uh mental capacities, but I was successful just for one reason. I've always been consistent with my beliefs and my uh principles, and I never gave up. I kept going, I never changed direction, and it paid me in the long term because the short term, trust me, I had problems buying grocery in some times of my life. So people hear this. Now we are it's true that it's easier to believe to to believe to fake promises the easy way, but here's a problem you hear that all the all the time. Yeah, you hear that all the time. At one point, you hear someone that said that tells you, I am challenging you. This is not gonna be an easy path. It's not gonna last six weeks. This is about changing your lifestyle, and you're gonna take this seriously, and you'll be now to be committed and consistent from now on. If you're scared, you give up. But at one point you might realize that this is what wants you to do. But here's the problem: how many times do we hear this from politicians, religious people? They tell us what to do and they talk about principles, core values, and then they don't apply them. But if they see someone that does what he preaches, this means least by example, then you might follow the idea. And this is one of the things that puts together a common thing among strong first instructors and people that stay within the strong first community, is that they've been doing and they do whatever they preach, whatever they tell you. So, for instance, there is not one training plan I gave to anyone I haven't tried before. I wouldn't. It's uh intellectual integrity. Sure, you're not gonna be my guinea pig. I'll be my my own guinea pig first, and if I believe in it, then I'll share it with you. So, you see, people right now, I think are looking for core values, yeah. And I think that this is the key. And seriously, now uh when I got interviewed by Pablo to the to become the CEO, one of the questions was so how are you gonna grow our company? Uh I said, uh, well, I don't care about having one million instructors worldwide. If it's about you know growing to the point that we open the doors to anyone and we just sell off, I'm not a man. The way we're gonna grow is by expanding the new countries, but we're not gonna make it easier, probably gonna make it tougher, and uh unfortunately, it is not for everyone, and it's not for everyone, not because you need to be a better person, just because you need to believe in it and uh and uh be committed to it. So you understand that for instance, why do we have the snatch test and our certifications? We teach strength, right? Snatch test is a hundred snatches with 24 kilos in five or less minutes. What is the reason for that? Preventing people we don't want from showing up.

Yeah.

It's and the same applies for the strength test in other modalities. So, this is the idea. We like you, would love you to be part of us, to join us. However, if you don't believe in what we believe, if you're not committed in changing your lifestyle and helping other people change your lifestyle and becoming the better version of themselves, we still like you, but probably we need to go different ways. And we see this, you know, at Surf, we several people don't pass, don't commit enough. Anyone can pass if it he commits, he or she commits. But those who don't pass, they give up, some give up, some pass, they get the basic knowledge, and then we don't see anymore, they go somewhere else, we're fine. Those who stay share with us the same core values, and we're not like a religious thing or you know, just saying don't scare anyone. We just believe in it in some core values and principles that we carry on. And uh being you know, honest is one of the first ones. Being always honest with uh so show integrity with what we teach, what we promise, and what we give and what we deliver. This is one of the first things. So we don't lie to people, we don't try to sell. It happens. I realized at one point, I have to be honest now. I uh I I kind of I don't have uh specific needs, I don't need uh big house, I don't need to have a boat or anything. So I as long as you know I feed myself and my family, I'm more than fine. I like good food. I spend quite a lot of I'm Italian and probably some good wine, but I I'm making more money than I can spend now, and I never run for money. Right. I mean, financial success has become the side effect of doing the right thing. And I like to think about this. I like to think a perfect swing in kettlebells is not it's not about the kettle. People, if if you look at someone, people look at someone swinging, they look at the bell. That's the side effect, that's the result. They should look at what the body does, the movement. So a perfect swing is the result of a proper perfect movement. Now, being successful in your fitness, in your health, in your strength, goals, or in your career is the side effect of working properly, of doing the right thing. What what people if if you look at one person, what you see is the result of the of what that people that person does and what that person believes in. And you can see it. Yeah, you can see it. So it's weird. I was just thinking, I had blood tests this morning, and I looked at my blood test, and I everything was fine except for the CK. Which, so I gotta call the the lab called me. Your CK is almost 10 times higher than the top limit. You should see a cardiologist right away. I said, No, actually, I did quite a few sets of quad yesterday. That was the reason. It's fun because they call me all the time because that value is always off. And they said, So uh I was thinking, so my blood tests are the screenshot of today, but what is that? This is the result of what I did yesterday, days prior to that. It's a moment in time, it's a moment in time. So if you're successful, I don't believe in in pure luck, you know. Yeah, it doesn't happen by chance. Uh to be successful in anything, could be work, could be uh uh could be fitness, could be uh powerlifting, could be anything. You need I think you need three things. You need to be to have, well, you need to be capable, for sure. You need to be committed and consistent and be a being a person of integrity, and then you also need to be the right place at the right time with the right people. So there is a little bit of luck, there is a lot that comes from your hard work, and there is uh also something that you some gifts you have. Everyone is gifted in different areas. You need to find where the area where you're gifted. For instance, I'm good in mathematics, I can't draw, I have a hard time writing. My wife, oh, she's an artist, she does tattoos, she she can print anything, she can design anything, she's incredible, she does incredible paintings, she's horrible with math, so it's a matter of finding your thing. So find the area of the area where you have qualities, where you're quite where you have capacities, then keep doing what you believe in, keep doing your thing over and over and over, just better. But then you need to meet the right people. Now, going back to fitness, we should be the right people. The instructor, the owner of the fitness center, should be the one who simply helps the person getting the best out of this person's capacities and out of this person's commitment. And I I I'm applying, I think I apply this to life. I think I think I'm capable of what I do, and I'm definitely consistent. Definitely. I never give up. The last training session I missed without recovering was happened at August 15th of 1996, my first marriage day. All the others I recovered if I if I lost one, like when I had shoulder uh shoulder surgery, I recovered it. I never missed a training session, never, since 1996. So I'm I'm committed. But if I didn't meet the right people that helped me, discovered me, and gave me chances, well, I would be just probably a good instructor here in somewhere around the Alps here. So I had three mentors that taught me things and that gave me visibility and gave me the chance to show what I could do and to improve and to learn more. Uh, two are here from Italy, one is not here anymore, the other one is still here, good, very good friend. And the latest last person I met who gave me greatest chance was Pavel. So I think that now my job is that one of being Pavel for someone else. Yeah. Providing the same opportunities. And could be at different levels. It could be for a business, for people who work in the leadership of our company to develop a new country or to grow, but could be to Aunt Jane that comes to the gym, wants to lose weight, and I need to help her. Yeah. This is providing opportunity. Allow this person to get the best out of what this person has. That's being a coach, that's being an instructor. That's that's what we do. Yeah, we don't we don't just say words and make fake promises. This is what we should do. If we did this, we would all be successful, probably not the first six months, not the first year. But you see what happens when you sell those three weeks plans, six weeks plans, and challenges, at one point, if they don't work, at one point you have to change town.

Yeah, yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah. But you said one good thing. Sometimes those challenges, if they are well organized, could be the entry point. Right. You know, when you when you said, well, you know, those six weeks' challenges or transformation programs, they do work up to a certain degree, which is true. And analogy in powerlifting is linear cycles. Linear cycles, increasing the weight every week. It's wonderful. Just doesn't work in the long term. Otherwise, I've been lifting since 1983. I should be able to lift the entire Starship enterprise with the entire crew on top of it. Uh, so it's impossible. But as an entry point, linear cycles for beginners are great. Yes. You gradually increase the intensity, the weight, then you taper down the volume, you get a new PR. If you do it right, you give some taste of results to the person, then you can get this person into a real, more well-structured, more advanced training, strength training plan. So as far as for fitness, if you do start those those challenges, uh, and you do it the right way without exaggerating, while be caring about health always by giving the right instructions as far as for movement and diet and whatever, and people get a good result at the end of it, you need to instruct the people that that is not the goal. They just reached their starting line. Right. You just learned, you showed yourself and all the people around you that you can do it. So the journey that you did from day one to um uh today, whatever, let's say 45, today 45, was your way from home to the start line. Now you know you can make it, now we start seriously from now. And one other thing that I I I guess that I think it's a very good uh strategy for keeping people involved is to teach them to focus on enjoying the journey rather than uh being only hungry for the final destination. Uh if you're only looking at the final destination, first of all, if you don't reach it, you'll be frustrated. Second, once you reached it, it's done. You'll be happy for 30 seconds. But if you enjoy the journey that took you there, you have so many good remindings, so many good experiences that you want to go through that journey again, no matter the goal. You know, so one of my best holidays ever, vacation ever, was uh I think it was 200 and probably six, seven. I booked a flight to San Francisco, and a flight back, I think one and a half months later from Los Angeles. I landed in San Francisco, rented a car, and all I knew is that I had one flight waiting for me in LA a month and a half later. And I've been traveling around California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, and a little bit of Colorado. That was the best journey ever, you know. And really, the goal was not going to let to LA.

Right.

The goal was the journey. So that seems a good, good, good point.

Yeah, yeah. That's great. And you know, there's a couple of things that that you're what you were talking about there, just reminding me. I had Josh Hillis on the show last year. Um, you know, Josh, and uh one of my favorite lines out of all the podcasts I've done was one from Josh Hillis. He says, just remember, you're probably only better than your clients at one or two things fitness and nutrition. They're probably better business people, they're probably better parents, they're probably better at this, this, and this. And he keeps this mindset of humility, like stay in your lane and just get really good at you don't have to be good at everything. And uh I when you're talking about the three things that make you successful, really knowing what you're good at, right? And and moving forward with that. And I think, you know, one of the things I hear from your story that I pull out that I think is a really powerful message for the people listening today, which is another thing that bothers me about social media and the current status of fitness, that I would like to start shifting is that this, you know, it's okay to talk about the struggle as you grow. You know, you don't have to be at the top of success. You know, you see all these people are like, oh, you know, I'm a I'm a seven-figure trainer, right? I'm a six-figure trainer. Um, you know how small of the population, if that's even true, right? How small of a population, it's okay if we all talked about it, be like, you know what? Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't pay my groceries. You know, I I had to do, you know, but I'm staying on the path and committed to it. Because that's the style of stuff that people didn't understand. That's part of the journey, right? Um, there was many nights I was sleepless from in the first couple years of my gym because I didn't know what I was gonna do, man. I had, you know, I didn't know what I was gonna do, right? Um, you know, and everyone feels I I think that should be talked about because that's part of it. You know, since uh I sold my gym, which was a steady income, and you know, started doing the things that I do now. Um, I haven't filled my coffers. I haven't made up for that income yet. And I'm very transparent about that. But, you know, here's the thing is there's nothing wrong with talking about being in the point where you're building. Right? There's there's no shame in that, right? They that that should be honored, I think, more. Like, hey, you know, if people ask me, like, what are you doing now? Well, I'm building businesses that I want to build. How much no one ever asks me how much money I'm making. I'll tell them, you know, if they ask me, I'll tell them straight up how much money I'm making. But that that I think honoring the journey, what you're talking about, honoring the struggle, like let's glorify that for a second because that's the truth. That's what people are gonna think. And you know, this is the point.

That well, two things I'd like to say is that I that as far as I know, there's no skyscraper or building that will start from the roof, from the top. They all start from underground, and the taller is the skyscraper, the deeper go the foundations. So this is so you can't start from the top. Every successful person somehow is struggled to get there. Somehow. So this is you know, this is part of it, and you know, and second, we do fail. We do make round decisions sometimes.

Oh, brother, we do struggle, yeah.

And you know, I mean, we build our success, we become successful by learning from all the mistakes we made. Probably one person that's really successful is the one who has made more mistakes than anyone else.

I agree.

One thing that I tell my students is that you know how I know about training properly, because you can pick anything wrong in training, I did it. Any any mistake, I did them all. I can help you avoiding the mistakes I did in training in the past 35 years of training with weights. You see what I can tell you, and again, you said that quote was awesome. We know more than our students, probably in one or two areas, and we can learn from it from them all the time. It's interesting as this is one of one of the points of our code is I am a teacher of strength, I am a student of strength. You learn all the time. Yeah, it's interesting because I realize when I teach search that I learn from my students. There is one of my favorite tips for the getups. I got it from probably a 60 years old lady. She was doing a cert, and she was doing this move during the getup. I was looking at her, she was doing it naturally, and thought, that's genius. So I asked her permission to apply it. Yeah, and then I always quote this lady, and again, even the person who's not in your industry, but every person knows at least one thing that you can't that you don't, and every single person can teach you something, everyone. Yeah, so you know, being humble all the time, it's it's fundamental. And again, don't be ashamed of your mistakes of the past, because especially uh, you know, mistakes are have another name also, which is experience. Yeah, yeah. So again, the journey.

Yeah. There's um so people uh if you're listening, I a mentor of mine, Ken and Druco, brought brought this up. He's like, Eric, I want you to go watch this video. And uh it's gonna sound ridiculous, but if you go and and watch it, it's called I Want, it's a guy who is on the show Shark Tank, and he has this thing called I Want to Draw a Cat for You. So if you go to his website and it's this, it's so silly and stupid. But this guy is now talking on stage in front of all these people and and go, all he did was go out and look for rejection letters. And he that was his goal, is like, how many rejection letters can I get for this idea, right? And he would put them on his wall and he had a great sense of humor about how great these these rejection letters are, and he, you know, the ones were the best were the ones where the most famous people and he kept shooting for the stars. He was but then eventually it hit, and he was on Shark Tank, right? Which is this incredible opportunity. Then he was, you know, accepted by Mark Cuban to be a business partner, which is probably the the he's the the one shark that everybody wants, right? And now he's on stage and he's talking all because he's he changed his relationship with failure to embrace it, almost look forward to it and see how he can learn and make it like a badge of honor. And it was it was really, really fascinating. And I think uh, you know, there's so many ways and stories and reflections on what you're saying of you know the struggle and and learning and perpetual being a perpetual student and and embracing all that, what it means to be a mentor, right? Is is sharing your failures with everybody else. Uh I think it's it's it's really powerful, man. And um so just just looking forward now, 2019, you know, for you and and Strong First, what what does that look like? What do you guys have going on?

Well, uh we have a lot going on. Yeah, I bet. Yeah, so finally, after uh few years of silence, uh will be uh soon a new book by Pavel coming out. Wow, cool. Uh and there are like more in the works already. And then there was also be probably this came out even sooner, a small e-book co-authored by Pavel and myself about barble training plans. It's about a barble training plan. And we are starting working on a Strongfirst app for that should help our accredited gyms and should help our uh instructors who wish to train people online and uh also those who want to have the app and download some strong first plans created by Strongfirst.

Smart.

And uh we want, of course, to uh we're looking forward to uh increase the number and the quality. Well, can increase the quality, that's already awesome. Increase the number of accredited gyms, so to provide more places where our people who want to learn from us can go. We're expanding new countries, we are improving our online resources. We have a kettlebandal course now. We're gonna work now on the uh barbell, uh body weight, and probably is something about midsection training. So there's a lot of things going on. Uh it's hard to say that you will see something new for us from us because one of our missions is keep doing what we've been doing up to now. Keep doing all with the same thing, only better, only better. Yeah, the idea is you know, one inch wide, one mile deep, try to sharpen the blade rather than changing weapon. Uh always this gifted idea.

Yeah, you guys have the best slogans, man. I love it. It's like the catchiest one. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, go on.

Yeah, we have we we have good people in our community who provide very good content and very good ideas.

Yeah.

And um uh our our chairman Pavel always says world domination is imminent, resistance is futile. So the idea is you know, expanding in different territories, and again, it's about what Pavel has in his mind, and I completely copy his desire, is thinking that when we won't be here anymore, Strongfirst will be still here and we'll still grow. It's about spreading the message. I always like to say that we're a very uncommon type of business because we're not a business, we're a school and uh we believe in what we teach, and uh business is just a side effect of what we do, which is kind of true. And um, I know that some people might not believe this, but seriously, I I never did anything that I did for making money, it just happened. I'm not rich, but I get enough for living, probably more than I need, and never never run for it. It happened, yeah. And I was doing the same things when I was struggling to buy my grocery, by the way. And you know, and many people do the same. It's yeah, but again, if you really believe in what you do, at one point, you will find someone who will be who will also believe in you. That's that's the point. It's like we use this uh joke in Italy. We say if you go into a square, you know, you know, our historical town centers are closed to traffic, so people can walk there. It's like giant uh outdoor malls, right? With all build ancient buildings and people, you know, shops and people walk there, take a coffee, whatever. So you say if you go in the middle of a square and you start gazing at the horizon somewhere, at the sky, and you stay there for an hour, within you know, 15 minutes, a lot of people will get around you and everybody will be look looking the same direction. And at one point in Test Square we'll look in the same direction, try to understand what you're looking for. Yeah, it's think about think about Forrest Gump when he tried, when he started, you know, running. Yeah, he found he had so many followers, and no, no one knew why he was running. Yeah. Very disappointed when he stopped. But again, if you do, if you go straight forward in your direction and you do believe in what you're doing, at some point you will find followers and people who will carry on whatever you're pursuing. So I'm very confident in that.

Well, you have a lot to be confident about, man. And uh this is great. You know, I I knew it was gonna be a really valuable uh interview, um, but it it it really uh I think it's gonna blow some people's doors off. And I think the messaging is spot on. I think it's real, I think it's authentic, I think it's the type of things that people as a fitness profession need to know. Listen, you're not one funnel away from anything. You gotta put in the work and you gotta do it right, and you gotta build something that has a strong foundation so you can have that skyscraper one day, right?

Oh, definitely, definitely. You know, everything in your life doesn't happen by chance. Think about people who win the lottery. Statistically, they all lose all the money.

Yeah.

It's not earned. Yeah, if it falls from the sky, you're gonna lose it. Yeah, the only way you're gonna have you want to have something that is stable is that you need to earn it. If you earn it, you will enjoy it.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, Fabio, thank you, man. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Eric. It was a great, great time, great interview. Thank you so much. I'm so I feel really honored that you invited me. I see that so many people end up in your 10 minutes interview, but not many end up into the main podcast. So I'm very grateful for this. I I feel this is a great honor for me. So thank you so much for giving the opportunity of you know sharing my uh uh my philosophy, my thoughts, my ideas with you and whoever is gonna listen to it.

Yeah, well, I think it's important that people hear it. So with that, man, go enjoy the rest of your evening in the Alps. Uh, I'm gonna go skiing this afternoon. And uh fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask. Actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I asked you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us. It's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel or Fitness Marketing Alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge. That's a big deal for us. And we're we put a lot of work into these episodes uh trying to give you great actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at Fitness Marketing Alliance.com.