Tony Gentilcore - The State of Coaching 2023

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Man, it's been a while. And when was the last time you and I spoke? It's uh two years? It's been a minute.

Yeah, I think it's been about two years been a while. We we talked about uh life when life throws you a dumpster fire and when you had to cut your uh couch in half.

Oh yeah. Holy cow. Yeah, that was that was at least a year and a half ago. That's when we moved into our new place where I'm at now. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that was a fun story.

Yeah, that was a good one. People can go back and listen. We won't regurgitate it here. But uh a lot lots happened at the point being is you know, we were uh, as I was telling you, we're officially coming out of a pandemic now, it may be over because I know because they're giving us the q-tips back in the men's locker room at my gym. They took away our q-tips during the pandemic, but now we got them back, and life is so much better.

I didn't see that on the PBS news hour. Like, as far as that being a litmus test for the pandemic being over, like q-tips are back in public.

Uh so what's been going on? You know, it's been a couple of years. Give us an update on what's going on in Tony Gentle Corps' work.

What is up with me? Um, well, I'm traveling again, which has been great. Um, you know, last I was I was doing my taxes the other day, and I I looked at my my travel expenses from last year and I was like, whoa, I gotta I gotta bring that in. Like uh so but I mean it was it was business travel. So I mean it's that which was nice. Like it was nice to be travel over to London and travel to LA and like start presenting on a regular basis again. So that's a thing, which has been lovely. Like I I love doing that. Um, you know, business here in Boston is going very well. I'm very consistent, I'm very busy. And uh I think I was telling you before we started recording that my wife and I are now in attempt number three to expand my gym and my business model into a larger footprint here in Boston. Awesome. And that's you know, there's a bit of hyperventilating into a paper bag, but thankfully this time around, the management company we're dealing with is is very willing to play ball. They're they're being very accommodating, they're very interested in our model, they think we're a good fit. So we are we are still in early lease, legal lease negotiations, like going over the wording of a lease um and not really red flagging anything yet, just doing like general terms. So that if if that goes through, that's that the the plan for that is for um Q1 of 2024. And um, you know, I just released uh uh a continuing education course, Strategic Strength, which is great. My wife and I are developing an app together where I'm doing the training side of things and she's gonna do uh what we call mindset minutes. So as people are doing my program, which is called Beginner to Badass, so the idea is take a stark beginner, okay, who's very interested in barbells but is kind of intimidated. They're gonna follow a very well thought out, properly progressed program that I write. And then each workout, Lisa's is talking about motivation or barriers to exercise and you know, really common themes that come up with anyone who gets intimidated with barbells or strength training in general. So, you know, we're excited about that. I'm not really sure where that's gonna go or if it will be a hit, but I'm I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there'll be um an appetite for that. I think it I think it'll be it's kind of a cool concept. I don't think there are many apps in this industry that are combining both of those elements. So um yeah, we'll see. And that's uh and then I have a kindergartner now, so that's that's that's always interesting.

What's uh what are you guys gonna call the app? What's what's the title?

Well the app is the app, the umbrella of the app is called Strong Body Strong Mind. So it's it's through a company called Suter. Um they're based, they're kind of a they're kind of a little bit based out of the UK and a little bit based in South Africa. And Sudor, I they had to tell me this. It's like, what the heck does Sudor mean? Like how is that relevant to fitness? It means sweat in Spanish. So this company did a like a lot of companies, did a pivot within the pandemic where they they had their own algorithm or or platform, um, but they they pivoted to where now they um instead of just instead of just uh providing like you know 10-minute hit workouts for the upper body, etc. They're they're recruiting more and more strength and conditioning people to write periodized programming. And um I like it. They and what they're it's a it's a sexy little app. They they do a really good job of helping with uh imaging, logos, branding, which I'm awful with. So that they they've been great on that. And um, you know, they're just kind of holding our hand through the process. So essentially we're using their app and their technology, but it's our it's our videos and our our our intellectual property for lack of a better term. And um I think we're we're we're a couple weeks away. Like I've I've been going through and auditing the app right now. So I actually before I got on the call with you, I was uh I because they they it's called was it test drive or test um something on Apple. Well, I I basically they I get access to the app without it being live, and I'm just going through and auditing it, making sure that like all the exercises are in the right place and all the cues are saying what they need to be saying, and um, and that Lisa's videos are in the right spot. So yeah, it's gonna be cool. And what's nice about it too is I can add a lot of uh past stuff that I've written on say deadlift technique. So instead of me having to re-refilm this entire video on how to deadlift, I can just say, hey, you're deadlifting this month. Here's some here's some simple cues. Here's me demonstrating it, but also for more information, read this, uh, and that'll be included in there. Um but I really think the the yeah, the it's strong body, strong mind is the umbrella, and then each each um block of training, which is three months, like the first block, month one to three, is called beginner to badass. And then I think from when I when I start writing block two, I might call it like badass to beefcake or something like that. You know, I'm just gonna, but the idea is is to make it a year, so there'll be four three month blocks of of traditional, like really simple to the basic straight training. It's nothing, nothing like there's not gonna be a lot of fancy schmancy, you know, set rep schemes and all that jazz. It's just gonna be like really, really simplified, like let's just do, let's just stick to the same movements over and over and over again, add a little bit of load, a little bit of reps each week, um, sprinkle in some nuance, of course. But um, yeah, that that's that's the gist of it. I think we're we're pretty excited.

That's great, man. I love it. Yeah, I think uh I think it'll do well just with your brand, your name, and and your your reputation really well. Yeah, we'll see. Really? I don't know. There's a lot of apps that have uh oh, it's it's insane. Yeah, there's a lot of apps out there. Um so there's there's so many things, as always, Tony, that I want to talk to you about. But I know you just got back from Dallas. Is that where you were? Yeah. What give me some takes now that you know, really, like we pointed out, the pandemic's kind of over. People are meeting in person, you're traveling more, people are back in gyms, doing it in person. Um, you had some, you and a bunch of other great coaching minds on stage talking and collaborating at this event. Like, what were some of the takeaways with with where we are right now in 2023?

Yeah, so I was at the raise the bar conference in in Dallas. Both Lisa and I, Lisa and my wife, we were we presented last year at the inaugural event in Orlando, and that that was an awesome event. It was it was just after things started opening up. So while it was well attended last year, it it was the numbers were certainly lower than what they expected. But we there was a fantastic speaking lineup, fantastic attendees who were there. Um, this year in Dallas, they had twice as many people uh in person, maybe even three, actually, maybe even three times the number of people. It was a really it was a really well-attended event. Nice. Um and they again they had a spectacular speaking lineup over the course of three days. And um I would say it was probably one of the the the uh one of my favorite events I've attended, which is a really well, really well organized and they took care of the attendees, and and and what's nice too is that there's a lot of mingling between presenters and attendees. Like you had easy access to everyone, which is kind of the whole point of the of the the weekend. Um, I think some of the main things that I took from it, um, you know, especially listening to someone like John Goodman talk. Um, uh Luca Hochevar was there as well, talking a lot about business. Um, you know, they they they were they they gave a lot of subtle reminders to coaches and personal trainers that your brain is still your your best commodity, like your ability to think and process your own ideas and and regurgitate your own ideas to the masses is still a very important skill. And writing is still a very important skill. Um, I think both John in particular mentioned how the ability to write and communicate with the written word is probably still going to be your your most valuable asset as a fitness professional. Now, that doesn't mean that you you have to be writing research uh articles and you have to be on in men's health or teenation to be, but this it very much is even just how you write a how you write a tweet, how you write your social media posts, how you write emails. Like, are you able to communicate in a way that educates and isn't just like you know barking at a problem for the sake of barking? Um, so that it was this is not to say that it's not valuable to like be good in front of the camera or you know be really uh creative with your TikTok videos, etc. That's not what they're saying, but they but but it but what they were saying was like hey, all these uh online communities that we've really kind of been sucked into Instagram, TikTok, etc., can go away at any point. Yeah, like none none none of that content is yours. Like all the stuff you put on that is theirs, it is not yours. Uh you know, which which also goes into this idea, like they said everyone time and time and time again, every business coach that was talking was saying how your mailing list and having uh an email list is gonna be your most valuable commodity, uh your other most valuable commodity as a fitness professional. Because those are yours. You own your list, you don't own your content on Instagram, TikTok, et cetera, Facebook. Like if they there's no there's no law stating that they have to exist a week from now, a year from now, etc. So, you know, I think it's important for fitness professionals to remind themselves that writing, communicating, being a people person is important. Um, and that we shouldn't be relying on necessarily, I mean, I I think it's been with the last several weeks, chat GPT has been a very like, or AI has been very much in everyone's mind and and everyone's purview. And, you know, while it seems like it would be, oh great, I can I can just type in these these keywords, and then this this this AI is just gonna write my blog post for me and like you know, great, content solved, content solved. Luca made a point, he pointed to his head, like, listen, your ability to use your brain is is important. And if you just rely on AI to do all your content, you're not gonna you're not gonna thrive, you're not gonna get better as a fitness professional. So I thought that was a very great message to to realize. Like certainly this isn't to say that you can't make your life a little bit easier and kind of lean into this stuff and like make your systems a little bit more um seamless for sure. But you know, I do think you know, the ability to be able to sit down and and and type out and write out a you know a 300-word description on squat technique or whatever um is important. Uh and you and you got it in this idea of communication via the spoken word, the written word, is a very, very, very valuable tool to have in your toolbox.

And what what other takeaways do they have on the on the AI? I mean, did they say that they use it within their businesses and they kind of keep it restricted to certain areas, or is it still being sorted out?

No, no, I don't as of right now, like I don't I don't recall any of them saying that they were using it in to any like um to any like uh what's the word I'm looking for? Um I need some AI right now to help me with my my thesaurus here. Uh none of I don't recall any of them saying they were using it to any extensive uh matter. Like they it was a talking point. Um I mean again this stuff is still relatively new. Um you know they they just caution people to like go all in and say, hey, all your content should just be through this AI because it's just it'll it's gonna make you dull. It's gonna make like your your mind. It's your if you if you if you're not thinking for yourself, like I mean, what are we doing? Like, you know, we're just gonna be we're just all gonna be kind of like regurgitating and sounding the same, and uh you know, that's not gonna be good. And and and and I don't know, like I mean, I don't maybe AI can emulate how my writing style, but you know, I I don't know. Like I think if it takes away a bit of authenticity if you're just gonna be relying on AI to do you know all all the all the thinking for you at all times. So, you know, I'm sure I'm not being as articulate as I can on this matter because I I because I mean you asked me before we got on, hey, have you have you even tried chat GPT yet? And I I honestly have not even all the only time I I I is in my brains when it's on the news and they're talking about it on the news. I've not gone, I've not gone to the is it a website? I have no idea. Like I I've I've not I've not checked it out.

So I I've actually never used it either. I mean that and the reason I asked you because you know, obviously you have a weekly blog that you've been doing for uh 110 years now, I think. And it's you know, it's been a while, right? And uh, you know, I'm just wondering like how you know someone for you who who does so much writing and you know has has it come across anytime I have been introduced to it, like I think um one that kind of caught me by surprise is I'm on uh Ryan Holiday's Daily Stoic email list, which I love by the way, if people are in a stoicism, it's great. Um but like a couple days ago he had one, and I was like, Wow, this is really really well well written. And then at the very end he's like, by the way, this is all written by Chat GPT, and I was like, whoa! And I keep seeing those type of things where I'll read something and then at the very end they just they disclaim like this was written by Chat GPT. I'm like, Well, that was actually better than I thought. But I think it there's you know, there's little like it can even be funny at some times, right? Like your writing's very funny. Like you you give good knowledge and you do it in an entertaining way, and I think that's why people keep coming back, you know, to to your your blog. But I, you know, even sometimes it's kind of funny. So I don't know, I don't think anyone knows. We're all trying to figure out how to use it, but that genie's out of the bottle, dude. Like that's out now, and we're we're just part of life.

I think, and I just think the main point a lot of like you know, Goodman and Hochevar were trying to say was like, listen, this it's great. Like, I mean, they they weren't bashing it, they were just saying, hey, be careful because your brain, you you need to use your brain. And if you're not using your brain, you know, your skills are really gonna soften and they're gonna atrophy. And I I think we just got we have to remind ourselves to caution against that. Um, you know, I don't I don't want to come across as some cantankerous, ornery, you know, curmudgeon of like, oh the old waves are the only way to do it, and you know, like stay off my lawn and like barbells, what's wrong with them? Um but but I think there is some degree of validation of hey, like if you're just gonna be relying on AI to do all the work for you, and then like, I mean, I I I don't know. I I I do think there is some validity in saying like you're gonna you're you're gonna you know lose some of your skills, uh whether it's writing or communicating or whatever. Um so you know, I it was the it wasn't a topic that was like, you know, that was like the the overriding force of the weekend, but it was it was brought up a couple times. And um, you know, and and certainly you know many times with like just the the power of your emailing list and the power of emailing many, many times in a week, which I have a hard time doing. Like I I just did my first launch in three or four years a couple weeks ago for the strategic strength uh digital workshop. And it was really a battle in my mind to to send out multiple emails a week, like reminding people that hey, this thing's out, this is how this is on sale, like here's how much it is. And repeatedly uh presenters were up there saying, You gotta, if you do it, if you email once a week, do it twice. If you email twice a week, do it three times. If you email, like, and it's just in my head, I'm like, no, I can't, I can't do it, I can't. But I've really it's really made me question, you know, hey, am I am I really kind of leaving money on the table because I'm not being as aggressive as uh my my my colleagues and and um you know and there's there's certainly a lot of these people have their systems in place for sure. They you know they a lot of use I use MailChimp. Uh many of them were saying the benefits of of Convert Kit, which I I think I'm saying that correctly. Um, and you know, in terms of how you can systematize your your emailing, like you know, if someone signs up for your newsletter, you know, every two days they're getting this. It's just a series that the that it's just set in place. It's just it's just uh it's automated, which MailChimp does that too. Um, but another thing, powerful thing on on that they brought up was even you know, your your mailers shouldn't be too lengthy, which I have a problem with. I I'm probably too lengthy with some of the stuff I write. Like even, you know, I feel like I can keep people engaged and they they they'll keep reading, but they're saying like two 300 words max for for your mailers is a is a kind of like basically the the the the the sweet spot, um, which isn't much when you think about it. I mean 200 words or 300 words is not that many. It's like it's for some it's really just a paragraph. Um so yeah, uh you know it was just a it was a nice, you know, subtle night like punch in the face of like, okay, Tony, like you gotta sometimes you just gotta put your big big boy pants on and like you know do what these these people say you need to be doing to to grow your list and to grow your business, and you know, you gotta get out of your comfort zone. You can't just rely on, oh, if you just put content out, you know, people are gonna read it, which I think there's some truth in that, but you know, like you it's just people everyone are everyone is battling for everyone else's attention right now, and is it's it really is repeated exposures. Like that's the name of the game, unfortunately. I hate it, but it's it makes me reflect on what I do too.

I've been doing this podcast for almost six years now, and you know, it's always been a weekly. I was doing twice a week. Is that bi-weekly? I was getting confused, but the um, you know, and I think what you're getting at is like, well, you know, it's getting so crowded and there's so much noise that you have to yell louder, right? In order to be heard in this kind of tsunami of content that we live in. But at what point is just everyone yelling way too damn loud and then no one no one's listening anymore, right? And I think that's kind of where we're like, well, we're gonna keep pushing to a critical point where like no one's gonna read any emails, you know, except for a select few, or you know, there's so much content. I mean, gosh, man, I'm not even on TikTok, but everyone keeps talking about it, and I'm like, I can't handle another platform. And yeah, it's it's uh No, I'm not on either God. There's like, well, there's so many podcasts too. I don't even know what the the recent number is, but there's just a lot of podcasts, and I'm you know, I talked to someone this week from helping me launch a podcast. Um so you know, one of the things go ahead.

Well, they were saying who was talking about podcasts who were saying the average podcast, the average new podcaster will do it, will do six episodes. And I think John was saying that, and they were saying, like, I mean, if you're gonna do a podcast, are you doing a podcast to You know, become famous, which is not going to happen. Or are you doing a podcast to grow your business? And, you know, if you and it I forgot the example he he used an example of somebody who this just person, I don't remember the person's name, who was doing a podcast for many years, and it was, you know, he would get hundreds leading up to a thousand dollars a week. Then eventually, you know, he was featured. I mean, for years, it was just kind of like he he was consistent, you know, whether it was one a week or two a week, I forget, but he just, you know, naturally it kind of grew just because you know, inevitably, if you're doing it twice a week, you know, uh someone's gonna be listening to it. Um, but then he got mentioned on, I don't know if it was Forbes or you know, hey, this is a great podcast. Now he's getting millions. Um and it took him, but it took him eight years to get there. You know, so a lot of people who start a podcast, they do six, like, oh, I only had 50 people listen to it. Well, what's I'm not gonna do this anymore. Well, yeah, no, you got to keep going. Like it doesn't happen overnight. Like nothing happens overnight. Is I don't know, I don't know how many times we have to repeat the same message to everyone. Like, you know, you you have to continually do it. Like, you can't just do it and you're you're not gonna be famous out of the get-go. You probably won't, you won't, you probably won't get famous out of it in any way. But um, but I mean, if if if you stick with it, I mean it inevitably like you're going to get some an audience to some degree. So um, I mean, I I I have no interest in part in starting a podcast. I don't have the time, but thankfully I get invited on a podcast enough where uh I kind of have one. But but yeah, I don't know what I don't know if I made any sense there, but I might cut you off.

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Oh, I I hate listening to myself. I uh I hate listening to myself. I it's awful. I remember when we had to do the when we recorded my my my colleague Luke Worthington, who's based out of London. We we recorded, we filmed our strategic strength workshop in LA and we hired an awesome videographer. He he was he was the man. He did such a great job. But part of that process is you have to go back and re-watch every minute of the video just to make sure that you know there are no glitches or like you know, you want to take something out. It's awful. It is like taking nails to a chalkboard bad to to listen and watch yourself present. Uh I'm like, I'm I'm the least narcissistic person in the world, I think. Um, I hate it. I mean, there's probably some people who love watching themselves. I mean, I I can't stand it. Like it's just it is it is awful. But it's a good it's a great it's a great course, everyone. You should you should certainly buy it. Think about it. I think you'll learn a lot.

Uh that's too good. So, Tony, the I mean, uh, you know, I know you won't say it in public, but you're you're kind of you're you've been working very hard in your coaching career to really reach kind of the top echelon of of strength coaches, right? Um and I'm curious, you know, over the last few years during the pandemic, the coaching industry's changed, you know, to some degree. I I don't know exactly. I'm I don't really coach anymore, but you know, the online and now back in person and you know, all hybrid models and all these things that it's going on. When you look at the the state of the coaching industry overall in Q1 2023, which is what we're in right now, like do you feel like it's healthy? Do you feel like coaching's doing well? Do you think it's um on a good trajectory? Do you think it's providing a career for people? Like, where where do you think it is?

I guess it I guess it depends on what silo you're in. If you're like just to give an example, again, this past weekend, I was in Dallas. Uh amongst a lot of like-minded coaches, very engaged coaches. Uh, if you, if you, if that was your silo, you would think that industry was like the healthiest it's ever been. Um, you know, a very positive environment, lots of great information, very authentic information, um, nothing that was too salesy. It was just people being people giving, you know, it wasn't it wasn't performative, if that makes sense. It was just a very awesome experience. But then if you go on Twitter and see the shit that people argue about, and this the narcissism and the the nitpickiness and the just being assholes to each other, then you would think it's the worst, it's in the worst state possible. So the answer is somewhere in the middle, of course, like with anything. The answer is always in the middle somewhere. And I think in terms of the overall state, at this at this point where we have technology and it's just like we did have to make such a large pivot to the online world, and now people are leaning more into that. Like, should I do in person or should I do it? I think you have to pick. Um, I really think, and again, there's probably some unicorns out there, there's probably some outliers out there, but I can't really think of anyone in my in my network, and I have a pretty big network that is crushing it in person and also crushing it online. I can't think of anyone. I mean, there's some people who are like crushing it. They're doing, yeah, they're doing okay online, but they're and they're doing okay, they're doing you know pretty good in in person, but no one is like crushing both. I think at this stage, you gotta pick one and go all in on one of them. You know, especially, especially the younger you are. I think that now I I I think it's important to have your to dip your toes into both, but you know, you're I think you should do a little bit in one but crush the other, or vice versa, if that makes sense. Yeah. I think it's gonna be very hard to own both of them, if that makes sense. Um, because I mean, frankly, like I'm using myself as an example. I'm I'm two decades in this industry of coaching. Uh, you know, I've I co-founded, I helped co-founded Cresty Sports Performance. I I went I left. Now I have my own studio. I'm now building that into a larger footprint. You know, I have my my teaching and and traveling responsibilities that I do. I have my blog that I write. I have, you know, my in-person clients that I'm I'm coaching in person and writing all their programs. And I have a smattering of distance coaching clients too. And I have that app coming out that I discussed earlier that's yes, I'm dabbling in the online space. I've been doing it for many, many, many, many years. But I'm also, you know, I have a life outside of here too. Like I have a, I have a I have a six-year-old, I have a wife. I I don't want to be coaching at all times at all hours of the day and answering emails at 9 a.m. or 9 p.m. And you know, so I think you know, you you kind of have to have boundaries and set a line somewhere of like, okay, what's acceptable for your lifestyle and your schedule? But I think the sooner you you pick a lane and say, okay, I'm gonna, this is gonna be the lane I'm gonna be in, like whether it's online or in person, like you got to go with it. And it's gonna be very hard to dominate both at the same time. Does that make sense? Yeah. Um, I mean, you I'm sure there I again I'm sure there are people out there listening who would push back on that and be like, well, so and so, and da-da-da. Again, I'm just saying I I don't see it. I'm not I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Like I said, I know there are there are unicorns and outliers out there, but I I really feel at this day and age with like the just the the the sheer immediacy of access that we have to information and to just people in general, that you you really kind of have to pick one or the other to like own and then maybe you know dip your toes in the other, you know. Just got I because I do think it's important to have other revenue streams and side revenue and like don't I I I'm absolutely on board with that. But it's gonna be really hard to be a be a go in both. I mean that that's just that's just me. I mean, you again, you might you might think differently, I'm sure. And if you do, I'd love to hear it. But um that that's just how I look at it at the at this stage in the game.

Yeah, I don't disagree. And I I think it's something too, like during during the the pandy, as Stuart Brower would call it, like we um people had a force, you know, turn to digital and online. And the issue was like nobody was really doing it well. You know, it yeah, yeah, it wasn't. It was just it wasn't that good of a product. Like, let's be honest. Like sure, and there's a lot of digital platforms now that people can can go to. And and then there's the big players, right? There's like the uh companies like Future or um Workout or um all these companies that are building the platforms and the and the you know the marketplaces to do all this. I mean, gosh, you know, future uh they have like 110 million in funding out of Silicon Valley. Like it's it's ridiculous, right? Like you not bad. How do you compete with them, right? If you're just a one-off, you have to have a more than that's Josh. That's Josh, correct? Josh Monatal. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're doing all right. Um guy the guy figured it out. You got something different. Got something right. Uh when you look at like young coaches coming in, do you is there still because I and here let me set the context for this because I I've brought it up a couple times in this podcast. I was talking to uh Jason Crow, um, who's you know a former uh um well he's with the Sage House now and um the feeling was like more coaching is becoming less of a career path and profession and more of like just like the gig economy? Like people do it for a little while, it's an hourly thing. When you look at from your perspective, because you're more in it than we are, we were just speculative, we're just like talking at a high level, right? But you're you're in and you're educating and you're seeing coaches, you're rubbing elbows with them all the time. Do you think there's still a a thirst or an appetite for younger coaches to get into this and form a career path for years like you have?

Yeah, I think so. I think I mean I see I I mean I I'm on Twitter. Like I when it comes to like on Twitter, I'm more of like a casual observer now rather than participating. But I I I I listen and I say listen as and I'm reading their their tweets. Um, a lot of young coaches that are doing that that are putting out great content and great ideas and doing really well in the private sector. Um so there's definitely young coaches out there that hey, like, and they're and they are they're relaying the same message, like, hey, this is my career. Like, and they're talking about what's what I think is kind of cool is there there are more there are more younger coaches now talking about financial literacy and like preparing for a retirement as a coach, as a as as a personal trainer or strength and conditioning coach. That that's the shit I didn't hear jack shit of when I was when I was coming up. No one talked about that stuff. And no one talked. I mean, I was like, taxes? What what do you mean I gotta pay quarterly taxes? Like, what is that? Like, you know, I was like, not that I wasn't paying taxes, but you know, I didn't know like you're self-employed, I have to pay taxes four times a year. Like, what's this? Yeah, um, so I think there's certainly uh uh many young coaches who are who are thriving and doing way better than I was at that point, I think, you know, in terms of like where they are in their career, talking about like saving up, like or you know, putting money in their set by array and taking doing this and that. I think it's wonderful. Um, you know, I think I do think it's important for young coaches to still have in-person skills. Um, I still advocate for most fitness professionals to work in a commercial jam for a year or two um just because you're gonna get exposure to a litany of different personalities and injury histories and ability level. And and I think that's really the only way you're gonna grow as a coach and get better. Because if you can't, if you can't coach somebody how to gobble a squat in person, you're not gonna be able to do it online. Uh you know, it's or at least it's gonna be a lot harder. And and certainly if you're not coaching people in person or don't have experience coaching people in person, I feel like you're gonna be a shitty writer of programming because you're just because there's internet coaches and there's there's coaches who just happen to be on the internet. You know, there's a there's a there's a big distinction there. And you can often tell, you can look at some programs or whatever example of programs online and and see the people who have who don't coach people and the programs that they're writing compared to somebody who actually coaches people in person and the programs that they write. They're you they're really not that hard to to differentiate from. Um so I do think while yes, there are there are many younger coaches now who are doing a little bit differently compared to when I came up, you know, in terms of like, yes, maybe they're leaning more, they're they're more online savvy and they're more marketing savvy and they're more that's great. I think that's just that's that's evolving with the times. I mean, that's what they should be doing. Um, you know, I I still think I still hold on to this belief that if you're if you're an up-and-coming fitness professional, it's not above you to work in a commercial gym. Because I think that it is going to be a way for you to grow and to gain experience, you know, but certainly from there you can figure out, okay, do I want, do I want to stick with this or do I want to work with more of this type of population? Or do I want to maybe, you know, go into private or high school strength and conditioning or collegiate strength and conditioning, or who knows? Um, you know, that I I don't know, that's that's up to each individual to figure out. You know, there's no, I mean, there's no right path here. I mean, we we can look at examples of people who did it my way where it's like, okay, I started in a commercial jam for three years, graduated to more of a you know, a privately owned commercial jam to then owning my own uh uh um appointment only for athletes, and then separating from there and starting on my own thing again, and then evolving into doing more travel and teaching and you know, traveling around the country and the world to do workshops and then writing for all these different publications, you know, and then there's people who don't do that and just stick with like I mean, I think of Dean Somerset. I mean, he still works in a commercial gym. Um, actually, no, he does not anymore. He actually stepped away a couple years ago, but he he did it for many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many years, longer than I did it, and did very well. So, um, again, I'm rambling, but um hopefully, hopefully I'm giving some gems uh and and and and things to things to think about.

What about um and I read a couple of reports recently too and I I talked to um uh Anthony Veneri was on my show, and this was one of the points he was he was doing because they do a lot of research, obviously. But the um strength overall as a category is gaining a lot of popularity, uh especially amongst like the female population. Like and I've seen it even at the gym I go to here uh locally is like you know, the the functional fitness and the bar and the you know they added more racks to the gym when they did an overhaul this summer. Like strength is is is heating up, right? Yeah. I have to agree with that.

Like I just joined, I joined my first commercial gym in 20 years. Last last like in late 2021, November of 2021. I I was like, you know what? I'm kind of I'm kind of over training at my own my own little studio. I need a change of environment. So I I went to a gym, it's called Gym It. It's in there's three of them in in Boston. The the one that I go to is like uh two miles from my from my apartment. And I walk in and the place has four, no, five deadlift platforms, ten racks. I mean, 15 years ago, no commercial gyms had that. You were lucky if you had two squat racks. You know, so this place is is is is equipped really well. And I also have to say, compared to when I was going to a commercial gym back in like early 2000s, there are way more women doing traditional strength training, which I dig. It is awesome. Like they're squatting, they're deadlifting, they're doing hip thrusts, of course. But yes, I I would I will wholeheartedly agree with that, that that this idea of strength and getting strong and using barbells um is definitely way more trendy and in in I don't know what's the word I'm looking for, like in the it's very popular, like I which I dig. I think it's great. I think it's when I go, there's times I go into the morning when I go work out my commercial gym. I go there four times a week, and I go at a time where it's not at all that busy. I get there anywhere between 9 and 10 a.m. And and there's a good crowd there. Like, I mean, you kind of you do feed off that energy. I mean, there's been times where I'm deadlifting, and I remember there's one, there was like I was at one deadlift platform, and there was this other girl that was directly across from me. We kind of had similar deadlifting styles, like modified sumo, and like, and I could tell she I think she competes. I could tell how she was setting up and you know how she was training that she probably competes in powerlifting. And so I would do my set, you know, and like kind of sit there and you know, I I observe, and she would do her set, and it's like we was like, it was like dueling deadlifts for like 30 minutes. It was awesome. Like, and we weren't talking to each other at all, right? Like I was I wasn't talking to her, she wasn't talking to me, but you know, I know for a fact, like she was probably checking out my deadlifts when I was checking out her deadlifts, and I was like, I mean, she worked up to like 315 for a double. And and I was like, I was really, I mean, like solid technique. Like, I'm a coach, I'm always kind of observing and like looking at people and not in a creepy way, but I'm just kind of observing. Um but I feed off the energy. I think I dig it. I think it's it's it's it's really, really cool to see more people getting after it. I mean, I see a lot of eye wash still too, but but it but I would agree that you know this that people are are really digging this idea of strength training and using barbells, um, and and less, you know, and I never really bought into this whole idea of functional training and like you know, machines versus free weights, but I I I really of course I love barbells, so you know, and I see more and more people, men and women, doing them. I love it.

Why do you think that is?

Any any thoughts or you know well I think I think social media is is helped with that for sure. Like I, you know, look at when you and I were coming up in this industry and the and the access of information or what we had access to to gain information was very minimal. I mean, we had the internet, of course, but nowhere near the the the the tranche of stuff that people have access to now in terms of like videos on Instagram and YouTube, and you know, I I I mean I have I have a couple of my high school kids that I work with. I mean, they're they're coming in on a weekly basis, like, hey Tony, why are we doing it this way and that and like and I explain, but then like so-and-so on YouTube does it this way, and I mean they're watching way more stuff than I am. That's like I mean, I'm like, I don't know, I I have no idea. So I I do think I mean we it would be we'd be remiss not to give tip our hat to Instagram and Facebook and YouTube. Like I think that's where people are getting that's where people are getting the bulk of their information is TikTok. Um, you know, part of me hates that because you know, I kind of I'm I'm kind of on the Brett Contreras train where it's like, you know, the amount of the amount of uh hours that people spend putting like procuring and and putting this content up on TikTok, and they're and they're they're considered the like the the experts in this industry. They don't coach anyone.

Yeah.

Right. You know, it's it's part of me hates it because I'm like, oh man, what the hell? Um, but part of me digs it too because I mean there are more people using barbells. I mean, I I mean the amount of the amount of women that I see in a commercial gym doing deadlifts and hip thrusts and squatting, you know, is is 300 300% higher than when it was back in 2005. Um so no, I think I I think it's great, but I I definitely think social media and uh access to apps um has helped with that.

Yeah, well there's trade-offs to everything, right? I mean when social media has it's good, it's got its bad, and you know, we just gotta take take both as we go. Uh one of the things I want to get on too, because you mentioned you know uh gym expansion for you. You and you recently were with Kabuki Education or you know, Kabuki Strength, uh Chris Duffin. The uh the model of gym that you have, you know, I think it's a leasing model, I can't remember what it's called, but maybe you can shed some light at a high level of how you're actually organizing your business uh in the broken mortar space.

Yeah. So my my current situation is a small training studio. I'm sure people who have listened to this podcast before have heard this story, but there's many new ones listening. My I have a small training studio. So I I am personally coaching 20 to 25 hours a week. Um, more on the lower end, so typically 20 hours a week. And I'm only I'm only coaching Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturday. Um, and so like for example, Monday through Wednesday, my my coaching day, as in when I'm actually coaching clients, doesn't start until 3 or 4 p.m. And I typically go till 7 to 8 p.m. But I'm training, I'm working with anywhere from two to four people at the same time. So even though I'm only there for four hours, I'm seeing possibly 12 clients, which is fantastic. I loved it. It's some the semi-private model. So number one, my model is semi-private, which is nothing new. There are many people that do semi-private. And however, on when I am not there on you know the other hours, Monday through Wednesday, not to mention Thursday, Friday, and Sunday, um, there are other coaches using the space that they are running their own show. They are not employees of mine. They're, I guess, technically considered independent contractors, but I sublet the space to them to train one-on-one or semi-private. It's appointment only. It's not open gym, it's appointment only. And at the end of the month, I have my assistant tally up everyone's hours. So there's a shared calendar that we all use. We all have our names blocked off on the days and times that we're in the space. There can only because the space is tiny, there can only be one coach in there really at a time. There can't be two coaches in there at a time. Because I mean, if I'm if I'm with four people, I mean, there can't be another coach in there with two. It just would not, it would just be a nightmare. So at the end of the month, my my assistant tallies up everyone's hours and they all pay an hourly rate to use the space. And my overhead is covered, and then some. So it is a revenue stream for me to have to have these coaches using the space. I provide all the equipment, I'm the one that pays the rent. Really, the only the only overhead they have is paying their liability insurance and their CPR certification. And then any continuing ad that they they choose to do is on, I mean, that's that's their only overhead. So that's what I've been doing for the past seven years. And I and probably for the past four years, I've been in in dire need to find a larger space because not only do I need I could use more space because I just open floor would be wonderful, but then the other coaches are also asking for more hours. Like they could use more hours, but they just can't because like if I'm there, no one else can be there, and vice versa. But I but I also like this idea of more than one coach being on the on the floor at the same time. Uh I also like the idea of having dedicated space for a massage therapist, dedicated space for a physical therapist, uh, dedicated space for a dietitian. My wife wants to bring psychotherapy in. So we are currently in the process of building or negotiating a lease for a pretty large space where half the gym is gonna be mine, where it's gonna be the current model that I use now, just more expansive. So, you know, I could have anywhere from six to eight coaches on on staff. I use that in quotations there. And there will be an hourly rate, but it'll be scaled. So it would, I I want to incentivize them to build their client roster to the point where they're just paying a set fee for the month to use the space at their own discretion. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So, you know, if they're if they're if they're I don't I can't I can't expect new coaches to come in and and and pay the set fee because if they have five clients, they just they wouldn't be able to afford that. But if I say, okay, as you build your client roster, you know, you're gonna pay an hourly rate that's gonna be more expensive, but as you gain more clients, that rate goes lower. Does that make sense? Yeah, and then eventually it would incentivize them to just build to have to pay a uh what I would call like an unlimited rate. Um, the other half of the gym is gonna be psychotherapy. So my wife is gonna run her private practice out of there, but then there's gonna be, I think we're gonna build out three 10 by 10 rooms for to rent out to other therapists, whether they're physical therapists, massage therapists. And there might be kind of like a evolving door of like, okay, on Mondays and Thursdays, so-and-so is in this room, and on Wednesdays, so-and-so's in that room. But eventually I want the same thing, like, you know, to for one person to say, hey, you're you're you're the physical therapy, you're the physical therapist for this this institution or this this studio or this facility. And there's gonna be a lot of cross-pollination of clients. Because certainly, if I if if my one of my client's shoulder is bothering them, I could just if I can just if I could just point to the door, says, Hey, go over there, and then they're and they're gonna give the physical therapist is gonna give me feedback on hey, so-and-so, I saw so-and-so, I think it's this issue. They need more of this, less of that. I mean, that's gonna be awesome. Yeah, um, so yeah, that that's more or less gonna be the model where it's it's what I'm it's basically what I'm doing now, but it's just gonna be five times bigger with you know seven times more overhead. But so it'll be a good idea. Um so but I really I I think what's gonna be the different what the the separating of the masses is the psychotherapy element. Um, and and but there's gonna be separate entrances too, because what I don't want is you know, someone coming in to see Lisa to talk about pretty personal stuff and they have to walk through a gym. Like that that wouldn't be cool.

No.

So there you know, what's nice about what we're gonna lay out, there's gonna be separate entrances, but there'll be and a divider wall, but there'll be an entry point because what I what I envision is you know, whatever physical therapist ends up coming in, I want them to be able to use the the gym floor as part of therapy. Um, and that's really the only PT that I will partner with. I don't I is someone who uses the weight room as part of physical therapy. It isn't using ultrasound and you know, blah blah blah blah blah. Like I want them to use barbells and dumbbells as part of physical therapy. Um, so I no, I really I I I I I'm I'm fully confident that um it'll be a nice community. It's gonna be called Core Collective. So my my current studio is called Core. Um, we're gonna call it Core Collective. I already have a logo and a brand, and you know, and and I've already kind of priced pricing out equipment. It's gonna be pretty minimal equipment. Like I envision pods, so like six squat racks, a couple deadlift stations or platforms. Um, yeah, there'll be an area for like sled work and turf work, power blocks, but open floor space is gonna be gold. And you know, I I I do envision a nice vibe in there. Um, you know, I'm gonna hire uh a street muralist to come in and put some stuff that I want on the wall. And I I kind of want to make it Instagrammable, even though I've kind of been shitting on social media to a degree, but I want people to come in and take pictures and and and and get people. It was gonna be a cool vibe. Like anyone who knows me knows I'm I play a lot of 90s hip hop, I play a lot of techno. You know, that might be a problem for some of the other coaches. I don't know. Um but uh we'll figure out the music situation when we get to it. But um yeah, it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be uh a great uh uh a great we're in a great location because uh and it's you know there's a there's medical um facilities like right across the street, it's right on the T on the D line um in my in a mile from my apartment. It's it's gonna be great. So um, but it's a model that I think I mean it's not new new. I mean, there are there are people out there who who use it currently. Um but I think it's a model that makes it a little less intimidating for other coaches and personal trainers. Because I do think there's this connotation that in order to make it in this industry, you have to own a gym. And I I I I push back against that all the time. I don't I don't think that's a healthy way of looking at it. Um and unfortunately, there aren't many people who have the means to open up their own facility. So if I can kind of shorten that gap between being stuck in this commercial gym conundrum, but then also allow people to like start like build their own brand underneath this core collective, but but but treating them fairly. Like I really I really envision a scenario where where I want people to thrive, I want them making money. I want everyone making six figures, like to be quite candid. Like I I want all the coaches working out of space to say, yeah, you have to pay rent, but that's your only overhead. That's the only thing you have to worry about is just your your monthly rent to me. And then after after that, like everything else is like it's on you if you want to build it as big as you want. Like, I'm not there to tell you like what to charge, I'm not there to tell you how to program. I mean, there's got to be some symbiance there. Like they can't, like, I'll be vetting everyone who works out of that space. Um, I'm not I'm not expecting mirror images of me. Um, and thankfully a lot of my the coaches that have worked with me already have been former interns of CSP or are are longtime friends of mine. So I've been very fortunate to be able to have like very high-end coaches uh you know work under in in in my studios. So, but I but I think it's just gonna be a great environment. Like, you know, I I miss, I actually miss having other coaches on the gym floor to have rapport with and discuss like troubleshooting a person's like squat technique or you know, talking about man, I have this one client who has an issue with this exercise. Well, what what would you think? Or what would you do? Um, you know, I think there's gonna be a lot of that, and I yearn for that. I really miss that. But but more importantly, I I just want the other coaches using the space to thrive and and to really kind of like share and be a collective. Um, so yeah, that's gonna be Q1 of next year if it all happens. So um we're excited for it. I think it's gonna be a pretty cool, cool place. And you if you're when you come to Boston, you're gonna come see.

Oh yeah, yeah. I I love, yeah, I love uh I love stopping in and and doing some deadlifts with Tony. It's a pleasure, man. Um well we're uh we're bent up on time, Tony. What um, you know, uh I guess closing remarks. Is there anything you know coming up upcoming this year? This will probably be it'll for you purposes will probably release in about six weeks.

Other than other than my wife's and mine app coming out and the and you know, the the course that I just released, like I, you know, we're gonna be I I I'm gonna be I'm gonna be at the St. Louis Fitness Conference in April. Okay, I'm really looking forward to that. A lot, a lot of the same presenters that were in Dallas that was at last weekend are gonna be in St. Louis. So anyone in the Midwest uh looking for a great conference to go to, it's I I I it's gonna be awesome. Um I I have another speaking engagement that I'm I'm gonna be doing in Rochester, New York, I think in May. And then I'm looking to do something in New York City later in the summer with Luke. So my remember my buddy from London, we do strategic strength, you know, doing something with him. You know, I haven't connected with Dean Somerset in three years. I haven't seen him face to face since we left Greece, right? As the pandemic hit. Um, he and I are still we're we're trying to like maybe do something in the fall. Um, so there's gonna be some traveling with doing workshops. Um, but as of right now, the main gig is gonna be getting getting the gym going and setting up systems within this year. So like when we are when we are ready to open up Q1, that we have okay, I've we have coaches lined up, we have physical therapists lined up, you know. I really want overhead covered like right away.

Yeah.

Um and then and then eventually make it a rev like a uh in the black revenue stream. You know, I I I think having a year to to kind of recruit and and woo trainers and physical therapists. I mean, we're we've already started the process and we we have a lot of interest. Um, so there those two things are that and the app are going to be kind of like taking up the bulk of my time for the for the foreseeable future. Awesome, man.

Well, Tony, you you got a lot of good stuff cooking, man. And uh I'm excited that uh you know you're out there traveling. A lot of great coaches and speakers are getting together and doing the live events. That's just uh warms my heart. So of course, uh, if people want to find you, I think just send them to TonyGentlecore.com, right? Yep, you got it. Right on. Well, Tony, always a pleasure. Really appreciate your time. And uh, ladies and gentlemen, Tony and Tony Gentlecore. Appreciate you, man. You're the best. I love it. Uh uh Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This was your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, or iTunes, Spotify, Catbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in the textbook, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because I put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that many people are getting value out of it as possible. That's it. If you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me. Simply go to the feature of finit.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Derek Countdown, and this is the feature of Finance every day.