The Positive Side of Uncertainty - Kate Jaramillo & Ken Andrukow

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, where we talk with entrepreneurs, researchers, and practitioners in fitness, wellness, and the health sciences. I'd like to give a big thanks to our sponsors, Level Five Mentors, helping entrepreneurs achieve the highest levels of freedom in time, money, relationships, health, and purpose. Also, Certified Course Creation, helping entrepreneurs create accredited online certifications that are not only lucrative but highly scalable. Go to level5mentors.com or certifiedcoursecreation.com and learn more. I am your host, Eric Malzone. And once again, welcome to the future of fitness. All right, Kate and Ken, welcome back, my friends. How are you doing? Good, good, good.

Great.

I'm fireside chatting today. I'm next to the fire at the uh cabin in the mountains. Literally a fireside chat. Yeah, literally. Like maybe it might be too hot right now.

Okay, well, then I'm lakeside chatting in 90 degree weather.

Yeah, I'm lakeside chatting in 30 degree weather with a bit of snowfall. So my gosh. Interesting times, you guys. So recording date, March 31st, 2020. You know, we were just chatting. I decided to hit record because it was is really interesting, some of the viewpoints and how right now is is very uncertain times, you know, to put it lightly, I guess, for for the majority of the population around the world. But there's a lot of optimism that that we can find in in uncertain times. And as long as you're looking for it and and seeing the opportunities and, you know, really reflecting on the amazing things that leaders are doing right now, like it's kind of cool when you start looking at it that way, putting all the suffering aside. There, there's a lot of bright spots here. So let's let's get into it. What are you guys, what are you guys seeing out there?

Well, I I really believe that times like this is when greatness rises and we start to see industry leaders really rethink how they've been doing things because they don't want to go through this again. And one of the things that I think is gonna happen is that the whole health industry and how they develop uh drugs and vaccines and so on is going to change dramatically and that they're gonna, because of this pandemic, they're gonna shrink the time it takes to go into trials for things like vaccines and cures for this. And I I actually believe that these guys are probably gonna find because it all of the bureaucracy of how you develop this stuff is sort of taken has been taken away. People can get to things much faster now. There's a real need for them to be faster. That we're gonna see a cure. I think we're gonna see a cure for the common flu and then someone they're gonna figure out drugs that that actually really stop them from happening. So I think in these uncertain times, that's the kind of stuff that happens.

Yeah, I agree. And I think there's there's just you know, we were talking before how I think all of us probably loathe status quo, right? When things kind of get into a groove and people get used to it, and next you know, there's just a lot of complacency. One of the things I've been noticing is I think there's going to be a huge shift in consumerism in the West. I think a lot of people are buying things right now for emotional purposes, but like, you know, the uncertainty now of like, hey, you know, that job that you thought was secure for the next 10, 20, 30 years, it's it's not. Let's let's take a look at how we actually live our lives too. I I think for me, that's something I, you know, you know, Ken, you'll uh you'll make fun of me occasionally because I like things, I like to buy things, but usually the reason being is when I buy things, it's a big deal because I don't buy them that often. And I've spent the last three years of my life, you know, minimizing things uh quite a bit. So times like these really aren't that different for people who have taken the opportunity to kind of minimize, right? So I I think there's a lot everyone looks at it differently and everyone sees positives here, but I I do see a lot of it. I agree. I think there's a lot of positives going on.

Yeah, I agree. I think it's an exciting time. I think like I don't feel scared. I feel like there's gonna be a lot of things that change. My husband and I were chatting about this because he works outside of the home in an office. And I was like, I wonder if employers are going to realize how much money they're able to save on, you know, rent and space and see how much they can actually, their workforce can actually get done from home. He's like, yeah, like it's gonna change everything. And I'm just thinking of just that industry in particular. Like, what would we do with all of these commercial spaces? There's so much that can be done. I mean, we turn them into distribution centers like Amazon, you know, like warehouses or apartments, churches, you know, like grocery stores, things like that that we're gonna need. But maybe the workforce, maybe people do get more leniency in working from home. Maybe that brings gas prices down. Maybe I know like we're not spending, we're spending a lot of money on food right now, but we're not spending as much money on like, you know, my husband's dry cleaning bills and gas and and things like that. So it's just I think it's just gonna be really interesting. I'm excited about like our new world.

Yeah. Well, there's a lot of things that we've been doing for a long time that we don't really know why we've been doing them. You know, we talk about, you know, on these episodes often like, why do we eat three meals a day? That's uh residue of the industrial revolution. Why do we put on a colored shirt and go and drive to an office where we just do a bunch of meetings and then wait till five o'clock and leave? Why does that happen? Times like this are you know when you start to shake things up and people start asking, like, yeah, why are we doing that? Do we need that? And it's this stuff starts to come to light. And I think it's it's like a um to use a nature analogy, is like you need a good forest fire every once in a while to kind of revigorate the growth. And you know, perhaps that's what we're saying. I don't know if that's a good analogy. That might be a bad one, but you get the point, right?

I think new growth happens after a fire, right? Like, you like mushrooms, that's the time for it. It's after the year after a fire. And the other side of that, Eric, is this is like things were pretty good before the coronavirus. Really good. And the economies around the world were doing well. There was some shakeup and how governments work on issues together. But in general, everyone was pretty comfy and they were traveling more and doing more, and there's a lot of money flowing around. But what gets done at that time? How much rethinking and innovating is happening in a time when everything's good. I'm making enough, more than enough, right?

Yeah. I you know, I look over my business ownership career, is the times I made my best moves were times when my back was a little against the wall. You just force yourself to do the uncomfortable things that you know you've needed to do, but you just haven't had to do. And that's I think what we're seeing from a humanity standpoint is a lot of things, okay. Now we know we need to do it now. And it's amazing to me how fast countries and nations and large global businesses have become all of a sudden nimble and pivoted. And it's just, it's amazing to me, you know, how how we've done it. And it gives me a lot of confidence in the human race that we can actually overcome some of our biggest challenges. One of the things, I mean, really what we're facing is a universal challenge, something that there's no country, no border, no nothing that really can stop us thing. So we're all in it together, literally. All of us on this planet are in it together. And when was the last time that's happened? I don't know.

Yeah, Gary V said yesterday, and I took it and I like posted on my social. I loved it. He's like, this is the pause you need to put. And I was like, boom, Gary Vee. You're like a little Yoda.

Well, we um yesterday in one of our you know private conversations, Ken and Kate, we we talked about, and I I ran with it because I thought it was really good, is three questions that business owners need to be asking themselves right now, right? And the first one, Ken, that you brought up, which was really uncomfortable for a lot of people, is do I want my business to survive this? Right.

Yeah. Yes, right?

Because that's how often do people actually ask that question, you know? Because how many have gotten into businesses and three, four, five years down the road, you're like, why am I doing this again? Why did I start this? This is not what I thought it was gonna be.

And if you're if you're ever gonna stop doing something because you don't love it, now's the time.

Yes, because it's gonna be a harder road to get it back on track, especially if you're brick and mortar. So you better love it.

Well, not only that, but I mean, no one's gonna blame you for winding something down in a time where you've been shut down for three months. You know, it's it's a time when you can pause. There's a lot of opportunity around right now to rethink things. And I mean, I think it's a really great opportunity to take the pressure off, as opposed to thinking the pressure is on. It doesn't have to be.

Yeah, so let's move down that paradigm because it's or that continuum, too. So you asked that question do I want my business to survive this? And if the answer is yes, then what was the second question? You guys remember? What are you doing with your cash?

Yeah, so how are you gonna survive in in a time when you have zero business? Yeah. Right. So finding ways to make sure you're managing your cash flow, paying your bills, probably making some difficult phone calls that you probably never wanted to have with deferrals and whatnot, but they're available and they're smart.

Yeah. And they're and people are offering them too. You know, I think everybody, um most landlords, hopefully, depending on their individual situation, are you know open to you know working with you on rents and things like that. But, you know, really looking after all the options that you have right now, cheap money to government programs, to collaborations with other businesses, all kinds of things. You know, you have to get creative and make sure that you're managing the cash because that's that's really the most important thing. I mean, if there's one thing in times we know this of recession or possible recession, is is cash is everything. You know, you got to have the cash. So get it while you can't, especially if it's cheap, because you can always pay it back.

Yeah, we just refied. We just re-fied and we're saving like 400 bucks a month.

There you go. Do you guys remember the third question?

I honestly barely remember what happened this morning.

So like Well, how are you spending your time? And I think this is the most powerful. I mean, all those three of those questions are powerful, but how are you spending your time? Because it's cool that people are looking at, hey, this is a great time to binge uh Tiger Kings on Netflix or you know, spend a lot more time with your family and kids and all that, which are awesome. I encourage all that. But if you're a business owner and entrepreneur, now's not the time to just kind of sit idly by and wait. Make sure that you're using your time in some way that's beneficial, whether it be even just researching, discovering, having conversations with people, networking, seeing what's out there, seeing what's working to completely pivoting your business or starting a new business. Or can, like you said, hey, if you're in an industry that is really, really ripe for disruption, then we can talk about the fitness industry, the real estate industry, the education field. These are all industries that have been ripe for disruption. And now it's wide open for innovation. And that's the opportunities that entrepreneurs see.

Yeah, it's uh we we started talking briefly before we started recording about much has changed about the fitness industry in probably 30 years about how things are delivered and what clients feel like they need or want from the fitness industry. Yeah, in the last five years, you know, technology has started to play a part, but it's really mostly just sort of data recording more than anything. But like the interaction between fitness professionals and clients, I think that there's a time right now that if there's someone that is out there really, really thinking about it, there's a major innovation coming. I don't know what it is, but the industry is right for it. And with what's going on now, you you need to ask yourself if you're in that industry, what has changed about what a customer needs through the coronavirus and what does that look like after? So, what did they need and want before, and what will they need and want after? And can you be ahead of the answer to that question? And again, I don't know what it is. I've been spending a lot of time thinking about it because we have clients in that industry, but haven't quite nailed it down yet.

Well, yeah, there's there's a drum that I've been beating for a long time, which is that in the fitness industry, we've been battling over the same 20% of the people that go to gyms or you know, engage in fitness programs, but no one really focuses on the other 80%. Right now, what a great time to figure out how to reach those people. And the people who don't typically engage, you know, in fitness programs. They're at home, a lot of them, most of them, right? Sitting there um wondering what to do. Maybe they're thinking, hey, I really need to boost my immunity. Hey, I really need to do something. I'm I'm going crazy here, right? What a great time to figure out a way to engage with these people. And if you can solve that, right, if you can figure that out, how do we expand the fitness, health, wellness industry well into the mass population and not just fighting over that same, same small percentage. And that percentage is 1% globally, right? So 99% of the planet doesn't engage in any kind of fitness program intentionally. There's it, there it is. That's the question, right? And I think as we always you know talk about, it's not necessarily having all the answers, just asking the right questions. Because once you start asking the right questions, that you're you're on the right track.

The the stats that they might be a bit dated nowadays, but I think they've been pretty consistent for years, is that 21% of those who own a membership to a gym actually attend. So 79% don't, but they're paying the money. How do you get those people to do something? They're paying the money anyway. Yeah.

And maybe it's offering, you know, similar to what you do with your corporate health and wellness programs, Ken. You know, it's something along the lines of, you know, well, just because they're not engaging in a fitness or movement program, maybe they still need help. Maybe they need help with, you know, accessing and partnering with uh people who are qualified to talk about, you know, relationship issues or financial struggles. And you become that that go-to advisor, not on their only their fitness and health, but their whole life. You know, there's a huge opportunity to do that. And that once you get that access and that trust, then you can build on it and access all the other points of their life, right? So, I mean, there's there's other models that we can look at that may give us clues and insights and into how to crack this code. Yeah, it's like what stops them from going. Yeah.

Yeah, it's the same as like what stops people from buying, right? We could always say that anybody could always say that money is an issue, right? Whether or not we're dealing with a national pandemic and people are out of work, or if the economy is booming like it recently was, money can always be like the objection to why someone doesn't purchase, right? So I think going just randomly, but like why aren't we launching things now, right? Like it's not a bad time to sell, like we recently talked about.

It's a great time to sell. We can get into like, I guess you can you can feel my angst because I let out a big sigh. I'm just seeing everybody in the fitness industry, you know, get on and start doing everything for free. And most of these people can't really afford to do things for free right now.

Yeah, and if somebody's paying monthly for a gym membership and more than 70% of them are going, you think they're gonna show up for your free classes?

Yeah, I just I don't see it. And I'm not, and hey, I'm I'm not bagging on these people in any way because I get it. They're they're they're doing something, they're taking action, they're trying to gain attention so they can, you know, last through this thing. And I I think that's highly commendable. I just think there needs to be more leadership to to show people, hey, maybe there's a better way, right? Than just giving it away for free. There is many businesses, many entrepreneurs, many people who have influence who can afford it, right? But you're there's a good chance that if you're listening to this in the fitness industry, you're not, you're not, you may not be one of those people. So find a better way. You know, you see you gotta make an income. And I when people, I think there's a small percentage of people that will attack anybody who's trying to sell anything right now. But just remember, like if if that happens, you know, maybe they say something nasty on your social media, hey, who cares? That's their problem, not yours. And number two, it's a very, very small percentage of the population just happens to be very loud. So anyway, that's that's my soapbox for the fitness industries. I just don't want to see people giving away things that just because they they feel like they're they're doing something, there's a better way.

Yeah, I think if you're gonna give things away, there needs to be a significant plan that is developing your influence by showing initial value, that then there is a next step and a next step and a next step. If done right, giving something away can be very powerful. If done wrong, then really becomes like a sales process, right? Where people feel kind of gross about taking the free one in the first place because now you're trying to sell them really hard on the next piece.

It's gotta be done right. Yeah. You know what I haven't seen a lot lately is like all those promises of a seven-figure funnel. Those those seem to have gone away pretty quickly.

Yeah. Now it's how to take your business online and may and maintain all your members.

So on the flip side of the positivity of this type of thing, where where does it come in for real talk for people who are, let's say, gym owners, how much real talk have you seen from from leaders within the industry? And I use that term loosely at times, but of like, hey, here's here's what you you're really gonna want to batten down and and you know, hold tight. Like where where is that real talk? Have you guys seen it?

Um, yeah, I mean, I I uh I'm a bit biased because they're a client of ours, but active life has been Sean Pastucci has been out there having real talk with the fitness industry in general. Real talk's transitioning into since the virus lockdown started, he's his business has grown by 10%.

And how's he doing that? What's his messaging?

His messaging is now is not the time to sit back and wait. Now's the time to lean in. Now's the time to connect with your clients, now's the time to rethink your business, now's the time to invest and invest in your people, invest in your in your clientele, and really push to be out there. It's not a not a time to sit and and figure out how you're not going to lose all your clients. I love it.

Yeah. I mean that's and you know why that resonates with people? Because they feel in their gut that it's true. Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard.

I mean, it's simple, but not easy.

Right. And I think there's uh, and we talked about on a previous episode too, there's just there's there's a vacuum of leadership right now. A lot of people are withdrawing and pulling inward, and especially on a local level within our communities and local business communities, like it's it's time, I think, for people who are maybe, you know, a gym owner or you know, a uh chiropractor, whatever it may be, someone who isn't in the local community, really step up and lead one level higher. So don't just be the leader of your community, your clients, and your employees, but be the leader of other businesses too. You know, help them show away. There's better ways with collaboration. There's, I mean, right now, collaboration is key because new relationships are forming out of this whole new environment that we have. And so people are open to to doing things that they weren't going to do before and partnerships are are evolving everywhere. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, this is a time when uh people who I guess the term I would use are power brokers, people that know they see an opportunity in an industry or a market or globally, they know who to connect together, right? Right. People who know how to network other people together are always fantastic leaders. I love it.

Okay, what about the wellness industry? What do you what are you seeing there?

Well, I mean, the same the same things that we're seeing in the fitness industry, people giving away panicking and giving away a lot of things for free. Or in the direct sales space, there's a lot of messaging that's been going out to, you know, in personal inboxes and stuff or just posts on Facebook that are like, oh, I'm so glad that I, you know, I worked from home and I had my little side hustle for so long. And if you're out of work now, you know, let me know and you can get hooked up with my opportunity. And it's really kind of disingenuous. And then there's, you know, there's the people that are stepping up as leaders and they are just here to support their clients. And I think honestly, like, you know, we are we are in the wellness space and we're leading our clients and coaches who are leading their clients. You said something really great to my group recently, which is just asking people, hey, what do you need? Just that simple question. Hey, what do you need? You know what? I sent that out in an email glass yesterday to my list. I was like, hey, two questions. What do you need right now? How can I serve and support you? If I can't do it myself, if I don't have the tools and resources, maybe I can connect you with the person that does. And I I have been getting my inbox is flooded with people just responding. Just I was like, Well, thanks for asking. You know, I'm a healthcare worker, I've got this going on, or I could just use some prayers right now. Awesome. I'm so happy to pray for you and to just be your friend.

That's awesome. That's great. I mean, that'll go a long way in the long run, too.

I said to my coaches, we just put together like a resource guide that we worked on last week for people to like, you know, if they want to keep up with their ketogenic lifestyle or just get some like nutrition advice, fitness advice, mindset tips that they can work on from home. I was like, here, let's put this together, give it away. Don't make it like a lead magnet. Let's just make this as like something that people don't have to opt in for. Just let them, you know, post it and let people download it. Because people are not going to forget how you made them feel right now. And what we want to make them feel is supported, loved, calm, and connected.

Right on, right on. I love it. So I'm gonna ask you guys one question. Can I wrap this episode up? And you can take a second to think about it and I can kind of fill the air. When you look at things from a societal standpoint, what is one change that you'd like to see in our societies and communities after the pandemic is done? I started thinking about this after I saw it on a social media post. And I think that overall the impact that we have on our environment is gonna change drastically. And I think the way people look at things and resources and understanding that, you know, things are limited, right? Because right now everyone's scrambling for freaking toilet paper, right? People start to understand that once we get back to, hopefully, you know, and this is my hope, is that once we get back to more of a normal level of abundance that we have here in the Western culture, people start to realize that, hey, this stuff doesn't come from nowhere. You know, it gets a lot of work to to get this stuff produced. And, you know, we should we should respect the things that we have a little bit more and have a lot more appreciation for for where things come from and the work that goes into them and the resources that that take to get it there. So how about you guys?

I want us to take more time for each other. I don't want this, I I hope that people like don't just like think of someone and be like, oh yeah, I should give them a call sometime. I hope that they pick up the phone and call them or they schedule a time to get together. I hope that people never again take a hug or a handshake for granted.

Nice. Okay. It is nice.

Yeah, you know, look, the world in general has always been through ups and downs and crises and wars and and whatnot. And my hope for from this is because it's such a global issue, is that we don't just go back to the normal again, that we actually learn something from this. Um we take it seriously. I'm in a city that goes from boom to bust all the time in the oil and gas industry. And it's always amazing to me that when there's good times, the people are thinking that it's never gonna end. And then it ends, and the oil price of oil goes down, and people start laying people off, and engineers are now becoming your servers at a local restaurant because they they didn't take the time to realize that this may end someday and didn't plan properly. And what's amazing to me is that this happens every few years, and they seem to just go on rinse and repeat and never seem to learn. Yeah. So my my hope is that we learn from it. Um, we get closer together as a as a society and as a world. And as Kate says, we don't forget the value of a hug.

Awesome. Thanks again for all of your insights. We'll get this launch ASAP so people can use it in a timely manner. And yeah, any any other thoughts or or closing comments before we wrap it up? Get out there and sell something. Sell sell something you believe in.

Yeah, and if it doesn't exist already, create it. Now is the time.

Innovate, be different.

Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks again, you guys. Kate Ermil, Ken Andruco. It was a pleasure as always. We'll talk soon. Hey, it's your host, Eric Malzone. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Future of Fitness. If you enjoyed it, please do me a huge favor by going to the website and signing up for our newsletter. The website is futurofitness.co. Again, that's featureoffitness.co. We've got some big, big announcements coming down the pipe, and we want you to make sure that you are on top of it. Thank you again. Signing off