The Beautifully Complicated World of Hormone Optimization - Dr. Jeoffrey Drobot

Some of the most impressive things to come out of medicine are things like stem cells, regenerative medicine. Like that's all we got. Because you know what we have in health? Degeneration. So if we don't start talking about regeneration, because we're awfully horrible at management of chronic disease. And it's like 70% of Americans over 30 have more than one chronic disease.

Hey friends, welcome back to the Future Fitness Podcast and Interview Series. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and this is episode number 168. I get to talk to Dr. Jeffrey Drobot. This was a uh really interesting conversation. And before we get into much more details on that, just a quick favor, hit pause and go to helpmypodcast.com. Helpmypodcast.com. Fill out a quick survey for me as we wrap up the year in 2019. I would love to get your feedback to see how we can offer more value to you, the listener, in 2020. So go to helpmypodcast.com. Please fill out the short survey. It'll literally take you a minute and uh and would be greatly appreciated. So back to Dr. Drobot. Um, shout out to James Fitzgerald, founder of OPEX, for putting us to get together because this has been a gap for me in this podcast as far as uh hormone therapy, hormone replacement, hormone optimization. You know, it's starting to become quite popular, though it's becoming disdemystified. It's not just for bodybuilders anymore who are taking massive doses of steroids. It's for the everyday Joe and Jane who just want to feel better, look better, and have more quality years in their life. And uh it's going this way. It's absolutely going this way. So you might as well start embracing it and educating yourself uh about it because it plays a critical role in the fift fitness, health, and wellness uh industries moving forward. So really excited. Uh and you know, Adam bonus, that guy's hysterical. Dr. Joe Bot's really funny. I didn't realize how funny he was, but I was wrong. And uh he knows a lot, uh, he's got very strong opinions, and uh yeah, he dropped the knowledge bombs for sure. So before we get on to this episode, uh it is brought to you by Level Five Mentors, www.level5, the number five mentors.com. So we are helping entrepreneurs achieve the highest levels of freedom in time, money, relationships, purpose, and health. That's what it's all about, right? It's not just about money, it's about getting freedom, and it's about having freedom in all those categories. And if you are stuck, right, you can't quite get there, you don't know what's going on, maybe you need a third party perspective to come in and just really give you some uh some insights on on where to go next, then we'd be happy to help. So you can go there and book a free consultation. Also, certifiedcoursecreation.com, we are constantly building out highly lucrative online accredited certifications, and you could be the next one if you have what it takes. Do you have a specific set of knowledge you need to get out there? Something you've been working on for years, uh, and you're ready to stop training your time for money, right? Start scaling yourself, leveraging yourself, um, making a greater impact and making some money doing it, then go to certifiedcoursecreation.com, check it out, and you can book a call there as well. So without further ado, this is episode number 168 with Dr. Jeffrey Drobot. Enjoy the ride. And we're live. Dr. Drobot, welcome. Thank you for having me here. Yeah, man. Um, real quick, just a shout out to my audience uh before we get into this, what's gonna be a killer interview. Um Planning for 2020. So if you can go to helpmypodcast.com and fill out a short survey um based upon all of our current episodes. Give me feedback, we'll make it even better in 2020. So helpmypodcast.com. Dr. Joe Bot. Man, um, really been excited for this interview for a while. I um kind of hunted you down through one of my ex coaches and and mentors, uh James Fitzgerald, who I know you work a lot with. And you know, I asked him, like, hey, I feel like there's a gap in my program about what's going on with like the future of and current status really of hormone therapies, HGH, like, you know, it's starting to become more mainstream, right? So we're talking about it now.

How about we're talking about it now? Whereas it used to be a it used to be a back alley conversation, and now you know, as fitness kind of has evolved into, you know, we'll say come to the forefront a little bit. Now we're saying, well, maybe these aren't are these performance enhancing or are they just enhancing? Right? Like, what are we doing with this?

Yeah. Give it give us your background for people who don't know you.

Okay, so my um a million years ago, I went to the University of Calgary and did my exercise physiology degree, uh, which was which was outstanding, except for the fact that as many people with exercise physiology degrees will say, you don't you come out with with a lot of knowledge but little practical tools. You know, and I wasn't really sure what I was gonna do with that anyways. And then I had a free scholarship to go to go to medical school, um, if we say conventional medical school, uh, and I was all set to do that because I had nothing else to do. And I was really good in school, so this has always saved me for a long period of time. And then a couple of my professors said, Hey, you don't want to do this if you have this interest in physiology and you're kind of into athletics, go down to this thing called naturopathic medical school down in Portland, Oregon. So I said, that sounds really cool. So I went down to Portland and then did my four-year naturopathic medical license, I guess, which makes you a primary care physician in the in the States. And you learn all about, you learn some about vitamins. It's still a medical school, so you still learn pharmacology and stuff, and then landed back in Canada for, I don't know, 10 years or something like that, and then built a big clinic in Scottsdale, got sick of the snow up there, built a big clinic in Scottsdale, and then built another big clinic in Providence, Rhode Island to get back to some rain, and then have another place in the Bahamas and take care of the NHL and the NFL and Olympic teams, and then that's uh that's kind of what I'm doing these days, I guess.

Yeah, that's uh that's a lot of action.

There's a I like, you know, my brain needs a lot, it needs a lot of irritation for whatever reason. So that's I torture myself monthly by figuring out how I'm gonna absolutely screw myself over when I get older. But that's that's my that's my I'll do a but that'll be my podcast and myself later.

Yeah, yeah, we'll we'll dig that out on a different one. Yeah. Well, that's there's a lot to unpack there. I have no doubt. Um yeah, man. Okay, so let's let's talk about this. I think um, you know, like we stated, people are talking about it. I mean, people are talking about a lot of things. I mean, you look at like the cannabis industry, right? Um psychedelics, right? Things are like that were once, like like you said, back alley conversations are now coming to the forefront. So, you know what, let's I don't know. I mean, like hormone replacement therapies and and HGH and and all this stuff, it's not obviously not just for pro athletes anymore, right?

Maybe you could give us how do you think the whole thing has evolved to where it is since I've been so since I got involved just learning about physiology in general, right? Because we're gonna we're gonna talk about just physiology and then and everybody wants to say it's hormone replacement therapy, but it's like, okay, well, that that doesn't mean anything because birth control pills are hormone replacement therapy to a certain extent, right? I'm just not using your hormones, I'm using look-alake hormones so that you don't produce your own hormones, so you don't have you know 50 kids. So it's a it's a hard language because we have some people that say, well, that's a negative aspect, and we'll get into it. And some people say you have to do it. So this kind of conversation has evolved maybe as society has evolved and technology has evolved over the last 20 years, where it used to be something for the rich and famous. Frankly, when I started and go would go over to Europe, I mean, this is a long time ago, and and kind of watch like what they were doing in Berlin and some of the things, not to cheat, but just to know, you know, and there's a lot of other things that were going on as far as technology goes. And that was like to even talk about growth hormone. I mean, you needed to have a packet of money, you know, or government assistance to even have these conversations. These weren't conversations for you know normal mainstream pharmacies because this was like $10,000 a month just to get started on something. And we weren't really talking about biological hormones at that time because it was all like Eastern European uh cheating by kicking our ass by using synthetic hormones, and it was like, well, they figured something else out. And then it kind of came into uh-oh, we're coming into more people with menopause and more people with andropause real quick, where that didn't even used to be a disease, didn't used to be a point of topic. Similarly to men when me and you were chill children, we didn't really talk about gluten. I didn't never do that, right? But I also didn't talk about like Sam and Ricky are in a different classroom because they have ADD. I didn't really talk about that either. So these are kind of new things that have existed because the environment has put these pressures on our hormones, which depletes them faster. And frankly, you know, a lot of people want to do a lot more things too. It's not only a negative thing. Like I remember Freedom 55 was a slogan, you know, in Canada, and it's that I don't want to be rocking in my chair at 55. Like, I want to be doing a triathlon at 55. So human physiology kind of took us into this conversation, and and marketing and pharmacology kind of followed it after. And then we were we're left in this gray zone of what really are we talking about? And that's that's where we are at the landscape today, because it's like, is the person with the most hormones, does that person win? No, but the person with the most balanced hormones pretty much stays the healthiest. I mean, we kind of know this stuff. This isn't this isn't anything that I don't think in science that we don't know. You know, we we always say, well, if a little bit is good, a lot must be better, and that's not the case. But um, like we pretty much know, you know, it's always, it's, it's a, it's always a source of interesting conversation for me when somebody says, well, there's that tomato that's conventional, and there's that tomato that's organic. Like, what makes the organic tomato better? It's like, because it's a tomato. Like, I don't know what you want me to like. If you don't know that this is not really a tomato anymore, that it's somewhat like genetically modified, and that's how it's saying organic food can't be. It's like saying if if you want to look at the way that chicken is raised and you want to eat it, then you can't tell me that it's the same as this chicken. They look the same. Um, but they're they're vastly different conversations. So I think definitely technology and just the exposure to it has allowed people to say, what do I have? And I uh the testing industry has become so good, so we can evaluate what do I actually have physiologically in my body to make my levels maybe where they where they more, you know, more advantageously should be to deal with the environment that you're in.

You know, it's interesting. I I just started reading, um, I'm sure you're familiar with David Sinclair and his work. And you know, uh, I just started reading his book, Lifespan. And one of the concepts in there was, you know, the difference between health span and lifespan, right? How people are living older. I mean, people close to me are living a long, a long time. Um, but I can't say the quality of their life in the last 10 to 15 years is great, right? It's just, you know, people are living longer, but you know, what's what's the quality of the life? And I think that's where people are looking for now is like, well, how do I how do I live better longer? And is this stuff that was once taboo, is it worth looking, taking a second look at, or at least for the general population, I'm sure people like you look at it all the time. You know, so I think that's kind of where the conversation is going. And I I, you know, full disclosure too, I think I told you this in my previous call. I I did um three, three months of HRT therapy when I was back in Santa Barbara, and that shit works. Yeah. Like I felt good. They kept wanting to push me to highest optimal levels. And I was like, you know, I just want to kind of stay like in a good level, right? And I didn't understand why I couldn't, why they wouldn't work with me on that, right?

Yeah, that's a when everybody says, well, it was taboo, it's like there's there's a big difference between taboo and available. Like before it was taboo because it wasn't available. I could have said, you know, if you went to Colorado 10 years ago, like marijuana was taboo, and it's like, no, it just wasn't, just wasn't available, right? It was available, but only in the sense that it had to be taboo because that's the way we needed to speak about it. And it's a it's a hard thing because the industry is just like, well, if you want to be like Arnold, we'll crank you to these levels. And it's like, it's not supposed to be complete replacement therapy. Like, I'm not replacing my lower limb. I still want to keep my lower limb. I just want you to make it work better so that I can utilize it more. And of course, when pharmaceuticals kind of got into this, the whole goal was, well, we'll just go ahead and replace it. And then when you get kind of a tolerance of that, I'll just double the needle size. And it's like most people that are, you know, intelligent know that if you, you know, if you all of a sudden drink like two beers every night, pretty soon after about 14 days, you're like, uh, I think I need about six. And then it kind of climbs its way up, right? That's like we know this in fitness. You go for a walk around the block. If you're not in shape, that tires you out. But after a little while, you're jogging around the block, then you're sprinting around the block. And I think when we're talking about the hormone, where hormones should go, it's like, let's see where we are, get the lion in the sand, figure out why the organ wasn't doing that in the first place, because nobody gives a shit about that, which is always kind of the interesting thing. It's like, wait a minute, after because after I make this deal with the devil and you start putting these injections into me, and my organs go to sleep, uh, it's not like they were taken out. Like I'm still trying to get my organs back to doing what they should do appropriately. Because we all talk about you know hormone replacement, but I don't find many people that are age, like age responsive for the level of hormones they should have anymore. You're not 90. Like, why did you need an injection to feel like you're your age again? Like it's not like you did that and you felt like you were 15. You were just like, hey, my head's above water now. And it's it's looking for that. What do we have to do to train the glands? Because none of us got castrated, right? So we shouldn't need testosterone. But where did it go? Sometimes the environment is a problem. Where did it go? What do I need to do to at least make my organs and glands honest so that I might not need to completely replace them for the rest of my life? And that's the that's the hard deal that you got into with the drug man, right? Where they're like, no, no, we don't go down, we go up, right? There we only go up. That's what we got. And then you'll be a client for life. Because if you don't do it, you need it. And it's like if you need it, that means you're dependent on it. And that's not called hormone replacement, that's called hormone dependency by that time. And then you chase it a little bit. So that's a that's a funny thing where the organ is that we or where the organization is where we don't need it to be.

Let's um let's approach this from like a general pop, right, general population view, and maybe we can look at it from two different avatars, or or maybe not, but like uh, you know, middle-aged male, right? You know, uh maybe a little slightly older female. Yeah, you know, what do you like? You mentioned a deal with the devil. Does it have to be that way?

No, like it never has to be that way, and it shouldn't be that way. You know, it's not like you start this stuff and you're dependent on it for the rest of your life. It absolutely should not be that way. When I talk about hormones and when we're replacing hormones, we're replacing hormones to put our body in an environment that we can build tissue back better than when we didn't have the hormone. Nice, right? Like that's what it is. It's not food, it's not like I need to keep eating it in order to get energy. It's like I'm looking for a therapy window. And so you give me a therapy window where I all of a sudden say I have a broken leg, and I know that I can repair a broken leg faster at 20 than I could at 50, at least hormonally, right? If all things being equal. And what if I want to repair my ankle better? Or what if what if I have to go in for back surgery and I have no testosterone? Should that surgeon even do that surgery with me and I have no ability to repair it? Surgeon's always going to do it, but over the next nine months, will I ever get back to where I should be? And that's the argument where we're saying, like if we put our bodies in these therapy windows and we hold them for a certain period of time, we're not necessarily supposed to keep grinding and kicking our own ass so that we use it all the time. We're supposed to say, I feel good, okay, I learned a lesson, I'm gonna train a little bit differently or do things a little differently, or maybe try to get a little more sleep while I'm in this therapy window, and then we pull the training wheels off and we're like, hey, I'm pretty good. And maybe once in a while we cycle on and off of this stuff because life gets busy. I mean, but that's really what physiology should look like. It should be a train and then run it. Train it, run it, train it, run it. And when you don't have that honest conversation, then we're not really doing what hormones are supposed to do. We're simply just driving physiology. We're not educating or working it. And that's when we kind of get into the results that maybe we're not looking for. And the females, it's a little more complicated because we're dumb guys, it's just testosterone, right? We just have to kind of find this number, and everybody's like, your number should be 1300. It's like your number never was 1300. Like, I don't know, like I never know what your number, everybody has a different number. And so when we're looking at numbers like my genetics and your genetics, we might produce a different number, which means my cells work best at this number, your cells work best at that number. If we go over that number, our body has never seen that number before. And so, what are we really doing? And if I could stamp the number and everybody kind of got checked at 13, 14, 15, 16 when we do our little physicals or whatever we're supposed to do in medicine these days and say, this is what your numbers really should be, this is what you're trending. Maybe we should try to emulate this until we get to these older ages, and then we could walk it down a little bit. But you shouldn't have spent all your retirement savings plan in a very short time by the time you're 30. I mean, that doesn't make sense. Females, it's even worse because we mess with them so much. We give them birth control pills, we stress them out, we give them antidepressants, we train them on their menstrual cycles, and they just have more moving parts as far as the hormones go. And then they're left with even a more complicated fix because we just want to stick them on all the hormones at one time and say go away. And that's not the way to train the hormones either. So it's beautifully complicated. Um, and that's why it's like the industries that are kind of the puppy mills or pill mills that go in there and just kind of get you, um, that's just marketing, right? That's not, there's no health and physiology, and that's that's where it kind of rubs, I guess, medicine the wrong way. Because medicine doesn't want to go into it, but they sure don't want to get out of it. And it's always industry in the medical world because I'll have MDs being like, again, I don't do, I don't believe in hormone replacement therapy. And I'll say, I hope you never prescribe a birth control pill for the next 30 days. Because that's what you just told me.

Yeah.

Right? And the number one prescribed medication used to be Premarin, which was like hormones from uh horse estrogen, basically based on horse estrogens. And that's it's off the market because it caused um so many cancer and heart disease risks. But like, what are you talking about? You do hormone replacement therapy every day you give out a birth control pill. You're doing hormone replacement therapy. I just don't I think in medicine we need to be really honest and say if we say hormones, then we have to say all hormones, which means that anything that kind of looks or acts like a hormone and you're giving it to somebody, you're replacing their hormones. Anything that changes hormones replaces them. Let's just kind of use that as our definition. Yeah, interesting.

So what is a what does a consumer need to know? I I I've, you know, I haven't coached people in the fitness setting in a few years now, but I did fairly often. I don't know, once once a quarter get approached by a client about like, hey, you know, is this kind of stuff for me? Yeah, right. What what does a consumer need to know? And I've I I must have got on some list a while ago too, because I get solicited, you know, I guess I'm in that age group, you know, 43. Um you know, what what do people need to know? And and is it something like if if someone just wants to live higher quality of life, right? Um is that taboo anymore? You know, or yeah, what is what do you need to tell a consumer? What do they need to know going into this stuff?

So you need to first of all see what your levels are. And if the levels don't seem right, which means they seem lower than what they should be, which is like 50%. So you always want to be in the upper 70th percentile of norms for hormones, more than likely, at appropriate times of the month. And we're all everybody's gonna poo-poo that and say, as you get older, you get, you know, you lose hormone. I get it. So like do the math then, and and everybody's smart, right? You we can figure out where we should be. When you're 30 and you don't have hormones, or the hormones look like they're on the lower side, and we're talking about quality of life, that should at least prompt some discussion. Not in not even the discussion of replacement, but the discussion on like where did these go? Right? Like, what happened here? I think that's the first don't always look to fix the problem when you don't know what the problem is. What was the problem? Like if you lost the testicle or you got your ovaries taken out, we know what the problem is. Otherwise, having kids is not a problem. That's called normal biology, right? Like having a job is not a problem, training is not a problem. You're supposed to recover. In fact, the whole reason we train is to get a hormonal response. Like when I get as a coach, when you get somebody in your office and they're like, I want to do an intense training program, and then you do that and they come back with low testosterone and be like, geez, like the whole reason for us doing this in this training program, a part of it was to get a hormonal response. So you got anabolic. So was my program wrong, or you couldn't respond to my therapy, my therapy namely being my treatment program, which was like a hard thing when we're when we're trying to say, like, what is the normal consumer? If you don't feel good, you have to start in and you're doing a lot of things right. You should prompt yourself. If I'm working hard and my bank account is low, it should prompt me to figure out what I'm not doing. Right? Because something's happened here. Yeah, the exchange is anonymous. And there's a lot of people that are a little more sensitive to some of the foods we ate. There's a lot of people that are more sensitive to electromagnetic frequencies than they know about. There's a lot of people that are more sensitive to the chemicals in the environment. And all of these kind of compete hormonally with like what can these glands do? Because they're not that big. You know, potato terries, like the things that control these productions, like your adrenal glands, they're tiny. You know, in retrospect to like my arm, you know, everybody can see their testes, and no matter what we think of guys, it's like they're it's not that impressive. You know, that that there's a lot of things that have to come out of those two little things that's not that big. And ovaries, if you ever saw them, you'd be like, that's it. Like, this is what we're doing. So you have to remember like from a surface area perspective, a lot of things need to come out of here. And even though it's not a huge amount, it needs to be a sufficient amount that we can run, you know, hundreds of trillions of cells. And so the number one thing is I'm not feeling good. I go to get checked out. Because a lot of these places are like, I'll just give you this and then we'll see what your numbers are. It's like, no, right. I want to see why my numbers are here, and then I need to see like what will be the difference like you found if my numbers are here, and then I'm good with this, right? Why can't I train at this? That's like equivalent to you saying, Oh, you did that squat, let's go do your maxes. And you're like, I don't think I want to do my maxes. I think I want to like I'm I want to I'm feeling stronger and more balanced doing this. I don't think I need to do my maxes. And I think that's what the consumer just kind of needs to understand is that it's it's a little like managing your finances. You should want to know what your hormones are, and then you should want to at least have them challenged so that you're not completely off the grid with the promise of like lifting a car over your head. You know, that's that's not really what you're supposed to do. And for females, like I said, it's complicated, you know, because nobody really tests hormones at the right time, then they're not basically uh moving the hormones around. And it's just like that's the female stuff is a hot mess right now because it's just like I just give you three pills or you slather cream all over yourself, and we just call that good. And so I'm really into hormone rotation, um, and we'll talk about that. I'm really into like maintaining sensitivity in this hormone system so that we keep getting mileage of this stuff. And you know, it's it's a hard thing because people ask, like, when should you do it? And it's like, uh, it's kind of like people asking me, when should I do a surgery? And I say, Why why do you wait till you're older to do a surgery? It just makes zero sense to me. Like, what are you holding out for in medicine? We say, Well, you should you got a little bit of hormone left, you should hold out for another 10 years till you have none. It's like, shit, why would like I want to feel like this for 10 years and let my parts degenerate so that I can finally do something, or I want to do my back surgery at 65 years old when I should have done it at 55 and had the opportunity to heal faster.

Yeah. That's a weird one. It is a weird one. I mean, my uh my wife's knee is is not not good right now, and she's very active. And you know, she got told, like, no, we couldn't do a knee replacement now anyway. We'd have to wait another X amount of years. And I'm like, well, that's just I don't understand it.

I don't get it. Like it's a hard thing because we we pretend that one part doesn't affect the other part, right? Like you take testosterone, it's just for sex drive. And it's like, well, I think mentally people like feel a lot better when they're on it. You know, or you know, I don't know if you've you've ever seen your wife with PMS, but it doesn't look like it's that pleasant for anybody, right? I don't think anybody had a great day with it. So it's like like, what it affects like hormones are one of those things that are global things. And you know, it's like that knee. It's hard to say it's not global because it causes pain every day, which means it affects your hormonal balance because you're having to produce anti-inflammatory hormone instead of reproductive hormone. Like that's it, it's a really strange thing in medicine because we'd never do it in like veterinary medicine. No, you wouldn't bring your dog in, you were like, walk your dog around for 10 years while he just yelps, and then we'll do it, we'll we'll maybe do a knee replacement. It's like nobody does that in veterinary medicine. It's like the whole goal was take the and make the animal comfortable, take them out of pain, and get the animal happy, right? Like that we still under we understand that. That's that's still medicine, and and when we're dealing with humans, it's like go as long as you can to be miserable, and then we might do it and make you more miserable.

I don't get it, but yeah, it's a well, I mean, medicine and science overall is pushing into areas now that there's some huge philosophical rubs, right? Yeah, like it's having a hard time with it. Yeah, like humanity's having a hard time with some of this stuff. Um, I mean, you just gotta genetics, right? Cloning, like whoa, whoa. I mean, I I talk about this stuff over. I'm I'm the guy who brings this stuff up at dinner parties. Yeah. And uh, you know, you hear like a hush. And then somebody, you know, you know how it goes. I'm sure you do too.

Yeah, somebody will chime in with something, you'll be like, what's the solution? You know, like if you uh some of the most impressive things to come out of like of medicine are things like stem cells, regenerative medicine. Like, that's all we got because you know what we have in health? Degeneration. So if we don't start talking about regeneration, because we're awfully horrible at management of chronic disease. And it's like 70% of Americans over 30 have more than one chronic disease. Like just economically, we can't manage that, let alone doctors. Doctors are all quitting because they like they don't have answers for it. So we're kind of we're into this, and then we we hop into some kind of regenerative medicine, like hormone replacement, and we think we're talking about Buck Rogers stuff. And it's like, okay, we're not talking about Dolly the sheep that we're cloning. We're saying the whole goal of this is if we're running this machine a little harder, we better figure this out because taking 15 medications is obviously not solving it. And one in two of us are dropping with chronic disease, right? Like you brought up at the start of the show. It's like, I don't see a lot of people like killing it when they're 65 anymore. Like it doesn't, it doesn't look like I want to be 65. And I don't want to wait to 65 to address that situation, which is kind of like waiting until you retire to figure out you have no retirement savings, and then looking at it going like this is gonna suck like for the next 20 years. Like nobody, it's when we have this stuff available, and especially we have testing available and we have the treatment available, and we have some of the knowledge available, we should be executing on it so that we don't have the people that need the treatment later because it doesn't work as well. Like it's always time under treatment, you know, time under fitness. Like you're not, I can't say that you're not going to build bone at 75, but you shouldn't wait till you have osteoporosis to get on this program. And it doesn't take a whole bunch to do it.

Yeah. So let's let's push this forward a little bit. So someone finds, if someone wants to find somebody to get testing, is there any recommendations on what red flags or or who to look for? What type of, you know, what letters does someone have to have after their name? Like what do you what do you what do you recommend for people?

Yeah, because lab testing never cares about the letters the doctor has. It's based on the lab. So there's a couple different kinds of tests, of course. Blood tests are pretty easy. And so I'll tell you my hormone panel just for blood work so that we just kind of understand. So we put apples to apples on all of this. So um you're gonna do total and free test because everybody just wants to do testosterone, and that's just a bad testosterone's an end hormone. So there's a lot of action in hormones. There's like a food chain of hormones. So you want to test this food chain at least to see like why didn't it end up with testosterone? If there's none at the start, then that makes sense. There's none at the end. But maybe there were some at the start, maybe we just needed to divert it to the end. Maybe some of it just kind of went into a different category than it should have. So total free testosterone, cortisol, DHEA, TSH, free T3, and then maybe IgF1s if you want to look at um growth hormones. And then for females, I'll always add in estrogen and progesterone. I'll always do their test on day 20 of their menstrual cycle so I can see the highest levels of progesterone. Because these people just do these tests at random times of the month of their menstrual cycle. And I'm like, I don't even know. I wouldn't know what to replace because I wouldn't know what needed to be there at the time of the month. Again, guys are kind of fools, so we can just test our values at any time. We can kind of see what those levels look like. Simple creatures. Simple creatures. We just want, we just want love. That's all we're like from the bottom line. That's all we're looking for, to tell you the truth, if it boils down to. And so, however you're gonna do that now in the United States, it's nice because you could just go and and conjure up your own lab tests, you know, and then who reads them, that's the important thing, and then what do you do after you read them? And so it's always like it's not that complicated, you know, when you're looking at all of the numbers to find the orchestra in all the numbers. And then when you're looking at those values, you can see the ranges, and again, you kind of want to be in the top 70 percentile. If I were to say the the values, you may not be close to that, but at least the aspirations are can we get somewhere in that upper balance of stuff? You don't want to be rich, but you don't want to be poor. Yeah, and then you have to look at those and find out how am I gonna separate because the cortisol and DHEA are adrenal hormones, right? So we're looking at these, and the testosterone is, of course, a reproductive hormone, and estrogen and progesterone are reproductive hormones, and then the thyroid hormones are metabolic hormones, and so we just kind of stick with hormone replacement therapy as being reproductive hormone, right? Where we're saying testosterone or estrogen and progesterone. But a lot of that, as a lot of people know that do this well, is the adrenal hormones, the cortisol and DHEA, they affect those reproductive hormones because they're basically the glands for survival. And they're oftentimes the ones that have stolen the hormones from the reproductive hormones. Because animals that are stressed, they don't breed. So your body says, if I'm looking at this food chain of hormone, that's basically production line, I will go borrow these for survival because if he's not comfortable, he's not the need to breed, anyways. Right? Like we can go to zoos and we can understand this concept when you see like a breeding program and it's walled off so that no kids come in there and start hacking on the glass and upset these cheetahs that are supposed to be like breeding. So oftentimes it's like maybe there is too much of this hormone, and we just need to go ahead and do lifestyle or figure out what we're gonna do to get it into testosterone, which is why we want to make sure that we at least get that generalized look at hormones. That's blood work. Now we have to understand blood work is only one time a day, whenever you're gonna test it. So testosterone's highest in the morning, lower as the day goes along. So a lot of people want to do everything first thing in the morning, which is maybe when you should, because you know the values or the norms, but maybe your testosterone drops remarkably at noon. Because you know that some people are like, I feel good when I wake up, but by noon, I'm horseshit, right?

Like I'm done. And then ox slump seems to be pretty common.

It's hard. Yeah, it's hard because these hormones have times a day where they want to play their band. You know, and cortisol is supposed to start high and then low, and then thyroid is really supposed to do its work kind of like a from 11 to 2 because that's when you have the most food in there. So if we're gonna do blood work, the bottom line is we're doing that first thing in the morning, we're doing it on day 20 of the menstrual cycle, and we're gonna see what all those numbers look like. But we have to understand it's only one time a day. Then we get into urine testing, which is a little more comprehensive because we get to see metabolites of hormones, and we'll also get to see what the 24-hour um excretion levels look like. So we'll get a much better view because blood is really only production, right? If my testosterone, if my testes can produce some testosterone, I'll see it in my bloodstream. Doesn't necessarily mean it gets to my cell, by the way, but at least I have the production part figured out. Urine will look and see what we're metabolizing, plus we'll get to see what that circadian rhythm of hormones look like. So that's getting into like a little bit more of the beef of it. But a lot of people can just start on the blood. Just see if you're producing or not producing, and that's vitally important. And if you're not producing, then it leads us into the what do you do? Like, is it you or is it your physiology? And that's uh urine will always find a little bit more information, but when the blood work comes down to like low, then that's when we start the next conversation, and that's when you actually need to find the physician. Okay. How about um saliva? I like saliva, it's a lot like urine. So it's gonna give you more information. And again, people can get these kits, so they can always check hormones, and they can get you can still get four times a day with saliva and urine, which tells you um a lot about the amount of hormone and the time of day that the hormone is being produced. So I like both of those. Um, they're more expensive than blood work most times. Uh and they're I'm not gonna say they're more comp, they're just they're they're a lot more information, but with a lot more information comes a lot more knowledge. So that's not a bad thing either.

So most general MDs don't do this work, right?

I mean I can tell you in medical school, like we we save this for endocrinologists for some reason. Yeah, you know, just kind of like we save nutrition for dietitians that don't learn about nutrition, you know, or I'm not that's actually I shouldn't say that statement. They learn about what we want. I learned from textbooks too, right? And with the tech, if it's not in the textbook, then it's not your business. And medicine, you know, we learn about pharmacology, even in my medical school. You know, what we're going, we're we're designed to come out as soldiers. And as soldiers, we just need to shoot. We don't need to ask. We're not supposed to be involved in why or how. We're just trained to shoot. And so most physicians aren't trained in it because we we were at one time, because we all did anatomy and physiology. We had to. Like when I talk, I have a lot of MDs as patients. We understand these things. You know, we were taught these things, but we just didn't teach we didn't learn the importance of it, and then it got brushed off, and we just had to learn standard of care, which this isn't standard of care, right? This is this it might be pharmacology, but it's not standard of care.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I guess the question I'm I'm trying to ask is if someone is interested in optimal health for as long as they possibly can, right? Yeah. Which I'll put myself in that category. I I just started really my skiing career two years ago. I want to be doing it for the next 40 years of my life, if not longer, right? Right. Um, who who do I start searching out? I mean, you like a clinic like yours, of course, right? But sometimes it's it's not accessible everywhere yet. Right. No one, no one's up in Northwest Montana dealing with this stuff.

It's just not if you always search bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, it'll usually lead you back to somebody that does it. And then it doesn't mean they do it well, but it means that they can do it. And as long as they're open to doing it, it means you can get the testing and have the conversation. I think patients always have to remember you control ultimately what happens. And I won't say that there's no danger with bioidentical hormones, but I'll say if you do it right, like you've had hormones before in your life. You know, like this, you've had these things. These this isn't like we're trying something new, like it's a designer drug to give you like the optimal incognition. Like you've had these things. You're just looking to keep the rates of them maybe where they should be now. Or my if I didn't have to spend them all, I would like to have a little more around so I can do some of these things, like my skiing career. And if you back into it by finding, or else you'll call a pharmacy. Compounding pharmacies will have the name of doctors too. If you call a compounding pharmacy, I'll often say, call your compounding pharmacy, look up like bioidentical hormone replacement therapy or compounding pharmacies. They'll normally, because you you don't usually get these things at like CVS or Walgreens. So you'll go to compounding pharmacies and you'll say, Can you just give me a couple names of a couple docs in the area or nurse practitioners that'll do this? And then you go and sit down and say, I want my blood test done, or I had my blood test done, and I want to really have a chat about this. And again, the the goal isn't to rip the number up as high as possible. Like, because everybody says, Well, if this is if this is here, then I want to be at this level. It's like, no, no, no, no. You know, again, that's an honest conversation. You can tell pretty quickly if the person like understands that we're gonna work the number, right? I don't want you to give me the number. I'm okay, like I'm not feel this in a week, but realistically, when they say you're gonna get a shot and feel like you know you're not. You're not, that's it's not heroin, right? It's it's gonna take a little bit of time, anyways. And I always find the people that don't immediately go at, you know, the the immediate, like the sales pitch, which is like more, more, more, they do they do a lot better because they build the physiology around the hormone instead of interacting physiology with the hormone. And so it's not that complicated a process. And then make sure that we have this six-month goal of hormones. Like this is uh always like, what am I? It doesn't mean I need to change my dose or do anything, but what is the long term? Like, I don't want to just keep showing up here and you give me a cream. Like, what are we gonna do? When's the next? The first test isn't the important test, it's the second test on hormones that's the important test. And then if you build the physiology around the hormone, you'll really like it. And again, it all has to be biological hormones. There can't be any synthetic hormone in this. And somebody will soon enough say, well, you get a lot more off of this synthetic testosterone than you do this biological testosterone. But as soon as you say the word synthetic testosterone, that's not testosterone, right? That's something that looks like it. Right. Like, but it's not that. And there's no bodybuilder, by the way, that's using bioidentical hormones and and killing it. So we we might as well tamper the audience's expectation down with that, too. Like you're not gonna do these hormones and end up looking like those guys do. There, that's we could have a whole nother podcast on on what that looks like, but it doesn't look this is not even day one stuff for those guys. This is more for vitality and mental and sexual and that kind of performance than it is for optimizing physical or or strength, you know, we'll say hypertrophy. And because you'll get females and they'll say, I don't want to take testosterone because I'll grow a beard. It's like, oh, we are not even gonna be close to that. We're just trying to get you know normal cycles back.

Yeah. And then, you know, I I know um so the clinic that I went to in Santa Barbara is actually quite quite good, I felt. They tested regularly. Um, I think the cost was about 250 a month. And they also served as a primary, right? So if I like had a sinus infection, I could go to the MBAK guy of sinus infection. Right, here's, you know, uh let's check your hormones, here's a prescription for you know, something to clear it up.

Right.

But it was great. It was great, it was a great value. Um, I was I thought when I when I went into the because I did it out of death, deathly curiosity curious about you know what all this stuff was, and I was expecting three grand a month.

Right.

Right. And so given that insurance probably doesn't cover this stuff, right? Right. What what do you think the the consumer costs are gonna be like now and then moving in the next five years?

Well, I think it's only gonna get cheaper because it's becoming it's it's as far as the hormone cost to make hormones, it's Like pennies. Right. But it's really pennies for any pharmaceutical to tell you the truth. I mean it's it's always interesting because most of these bioidentical hormone things, they've gone on this mem, it's gone on a membership model, right? Where you just kind of keep showing up. And I don't know if that's that's hormone replacement, but I don't know if that's hormone optimization, because you just kind of show up in like your your it's five minutes, right? Like the it's you don't get they don't get paid to have you check in, they get paid for you just to come and then they leave, and there's a certain amount that they need to do to prescribe that. But it I think 250 or 200 or even less because testosterone realistically doesn't cost a lot of money. Your intake should cost something, right? And then you got to work on your plan, and then you should really have a plan as to where did it go. Like I said, I always do in my clinic, it's big, and I got lots of technology, right? So I can say hormones are one system, and I also look at the nervous system with some technology, and then we look at digestive systems and lymphatic systems and all these systems, so I can figure out where where did we spend all this hormone or why isn't this hormone talking to us? So at least, you know, I want to look at the nervous system with the hormone system because I know that that's probably the system that leans on it the most. Whether we did chronic training or we didn't sleep for five years, or we had babies and we're just pulling our hair out all the time. Hormones are kind of a, they're they're not a great life partner, they'll leave you pretty quick. Um, but they they'll come back too. You just have to provide like a nice home and and they'll come back to you. That they're meant to do that, but they are really like this part that makes us kind of intelligent. You know, the immune system can't go anywhere, the nervous system can't go anywhere, like cardiovascular systems can't go anywhere, and hormones are just like F you and like you if you're gonna run me like this, I'm gone. And then all you have is a nervous system and you just break down. So the cost is just the cost is for the medication. I wish people would spend more time. I always like if it's cost money and you get to have time and talk about the hormones because a bozo can put a needle in or prescribe creams, right? That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to, like I said, have this six-month plan. You're like, okay, let's see. I this is how I felt on these numbers. This is what my plan is. Are we going to cycle on and off of this stuff? And of course, physicians don't regularly want to have those conversations because it's just heads in the beds. That you kind of want to find that mechanic. It's like in the world of trainers, right? That's like, okay, you really want to sit down with your client and say, you want, like, I don't want to just give you a standardized leg treatment. Like, let's actually see where we have imbalances. And then let's kind of customize this treatment. And we'll still have stronger legs than the person that I gave this generic program to. That's not to say the generic program wouldn't work. It just probably wouldn't work long term. Right. And that's the same thing with like nutrition. I can go and look up a nutrition book and I can tell you that those nutrition books never have like a big Mac in them. Right? It just does that that doesn't happen. But then there's the other ones which are like, can we get rotation diets with maybe alternate, you know, food sensitivity panels? Like, can we do this? And that's looking at hormones and saying, you just gotta be a little sensitive because they're sensitive guys, and you got to have people that want to spend time instead of people that want to give you product. And I think that's the discerning thing. And like I said, pharmacists are usually pretty honest with you. They're like, I've heard a lot of good things about Dr. Roberts, and then you're like, hmm, all right, I'll go see Dr. Roberts. That sounds like a good thing.

Yeah, awesome. You know, it's interesting. I got uh years ago when I was working with James, I got my um my I went through the FTN, the functional diagnostic nutritionist, which was enough to make someone dangerous, right? And I realized, okay, I know enough to know I don't know shit about any of this. So I start looking for partners locally who I can refer out to because I was like, this is really the hormone cascades and the complexity mix with one thing, everything else can go, man. It's it's uh you got to be on top of it. You have to be really devoted to to the seeking out the truth there, right?

Yeah, I always have like, and I I I love Reed. I like programs like that where it like gives you, it arms you with information. And as I said, it's just a little more complex that once you once you fire the rifle and have that first like female in your office that you just completely crossed up, and then you're like, I this this is I'm looking at my PowerPoints. This wasn't like I don't have the antidote. Like, like I did it, I'm not sure what the antidote is, um, but lose my number, right? Like that. And that's the reason to a certain point, like in Canada, all those hormones are illegal. I mean, you can't go to Whole Foods and get 50 milligrams a day. Yeah, you can't do any of that. So Canadians all come down to the United States to buy supplements, and the US Americans go up to Canada to buy pharmaceuticals. I mean, that's kind of the trade-off that it is because pharmaceuticals are cheap up there. But there's no pregnanolone, there's no DHEA, like there's really no messing around with any of that stuff. Um, because you can get yourself in a little bit of a bear trap. And so, like down here, it's kind of the Wild West where we're like a little bit, it's an anti-aging hormone, and everybody's just like bathing in it. And then all of a sudden, it's not like I said, that immediate effect. And all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, there, there, like, I can't shake this, right? Like, this is this is taking me into like some valleys. It's not like caffeine where it comes up and goes down in six hours. It's like, well, something, the machinery is off because you take hormones and and it's not in the bloodstream like caffeine. You know, it goes into the tissues and it does some work at a cell level, and it takes a little bit of time before you realize, uh oh, like I'm I'm into something here. And then that's those those courses. That's why I kind of laugh at those courses because I sit back and I see everybody nodding their head, and I just kind of chuckle, like, oh, you're gonna be shaking it. You're gonna be shaking it when you go down that path.

I did it uh, I did it all for myself. Like I took, I I literally experimented on myself with like DHEA supplementation. I would just test myself every quarter just to see what was going on, and none of it made sense to me. So I'm like, I'm gonna stop.

But I question why didn't we learn that in medical school? Like, why, why, like, wouldn't that be good information? Like, why why are you doing that? Why do you take an interest in it and none of my medical professionals take an interest in it when we're the ones that should actually be on the front lines prescribing it and managing it? Like that'd be great. Yeah, when that unicorns and rainbows, right? Unicorns and rainbows. But at least at least we got some boots to the ground, like people that are are messing with it. And that, you know, that that is the that is the world of hormone replacement therapy. That's why it irks people because it came from like steroids and Mark Maguire and like all these, all of this thing where it's like that wasn't hormone replacement therapy, man. That was performance enhancement. Like we're not talking about the same things, even though they're hormones. I mean, we're really having different conversations, and that's not saying you can't use some of this stuff to do that. It's saying the goal of this is not to do that. And if you wanted to do that, there are far better synthetic ways to do that, to kill yourself, to get to that level. And none of which the people at that level would want to use biodental hormone replacement therapy because it's not even close to being that effective. So it's really hard in in the world to say, we're not talking about the same things. Like we're we're talking about, I'm trying to look at my physiology, which frankly, every single year you should look at anyways. Yeah. And like you should watch this trend and make sure this trend seems like it's right, right? Because it's like, am I doing this or am I like having menopausal levels 10 years earlier and still cycling? Like, those are the kind of information when you talk to your MD and you say, we're gonna do this physical, because blood work is like just useless, it seems. Nobody ever knows about what their blood work is. It's like I didn't hear from my doctor. It's like, go get your blood work and go look at it. You know, because the only time you're gonna hear is when there's something terribly off. Like, that's like I never heard from my accountant. It's like, what? Like, you just kind of trust the fact that you're still sticking your bank card in that machine and it's coming out. Like, what's you should want to do some of these hormones, which always pisses MDs off and NDs off. I don't understand it. When the cons when the customer takes an interest in their health, that's the best patient you got. Yeah, right. That's a person that's motivated to make a change. So I employ everybody to say, go get your hormones tested on your annual physical because it'll be covered by your insurance. Which is like, why wouldn't you do that on your annual physical? It's called a well visit. Like go get them checked out and so you can get them looked at, and then at least look at them and say, huh. I don't know if that's like it doesn't look like it's above water. And if it isn't, back into the conversation. And if you don't feel good, you definitely need to look at that. And if you're training and not recovering, you definitely look at that. And if you want to train for something upcoming that's a real goal, you definitely want to look at that. Because that's the biggest thing that I end up seeing is, you know, we in the fitness world will say, because that's some of your listeners, we'll say, I want to do this in six months. And not saying you can't gut it out and do it, but you always want to see if you have the cash in the bank to make that purchase in six months. And we're not talking about cheating because everybody's like, I don't want to cheat. It's like, oh, I'm not talking about cheating. I'm saying that person has normal normal hormones, you don't. You're not competing. Like you're you're actually damaging your health by doing this training to get to this when we don't have the hormones to do the recovery. And you may get the t-shirt in the end and be able to do it, but you will now have two years, or you that was a you buried your hormones, probably like you did to a certain point, right? That was my impetus. Yeah, because you're looking at it and you're looking at your hormones saying, huh, son of a gun. What happened? Like, I felt awful. And we don't know because did we track him for 10 years? Did I know? Like, you don't know. Would you have like waited for that? That's like looking at a knee and saying, Yeah, you still had 5% of your ACL, and you're like, I think I'm good then. And we're like, no, did we like why didn't we look at this? As any person interested in fitness or their health, like you should do that every year at least to make sure that your training, because that's training is the that's what you're spending your hormone on to get more or at least have hopefully keep it there. That's what you're supposed to look at. And you know, they all everybody ends up, you know, on my virtual desk or on my desk, and it's like, when did this happen? I don't know because we didn't check it, you know. But if we looked at it, was that five years? And then we could have, we could have done something. Doesn't mean we can't do anything about it now, but you know, you always have to scratch your head saying, I don't think I felt good for a long period of time. And I promise you, your hormones weren't good for a long period of time, and then they were really low, and then you went for a long period of time, and then you felt bad. But I mean, that's I don't know the number of months that that could be.

Yeah, awesome. Well, Dr. Job, I want to respect your time. I know it's really valuable. Um where do people get a hold of you? How do people find out more about what you specifically do?

So they can go to drddrobot.com. That's my corporate, that just got launched, I believe, but um, they can go to the biomedcenter.com or they could just probably go to my Instagram, which is drdrowbot. And uh, you know, with again with different doing different hormone panels and and I take lots of virtual plants anyways, so it's uh I think there's I think what you're on to here, and there's a growth hormone, you know, obviously, which isn't a hormone, so that's another conversation for another day. But as far as just when we're looking at hormone replacements, I'll finish it up and looking at you know, testosterone and progesterone, estrogen, thyroid hormones, cortisol, and DHEA. I mean, there's a lot of value in it. And once you, I think once you get your numbers, you really have to look at your numbers first and then back your way into the conversation. I don't show up at anybody's front door and like say, give me something. Like it's always like do a little bit of research so that you're looking for hormone optimization, not hormone replacement. And I think you end up pretty decently.

Awesome. Well, thank you, man. This has been great. It's been really interesting. And uh I have a feeling I'll be asking to come back on again because there's a lot. There's a lot to talk about here.

Listen, yeah, in health and performance, there's a lot of there's a lot of great stuff and with technology and again biochemistry, like it keeps it honestly keeps evolving. And the conversations that I used to have just with myself in the mirror, you can now actually, you know, have a decent conversation. And still the availability of some stuff is not there. And we never talk like I work with pro-athletes. I have never like a pro-athlete that's in season and not retired, any any pro-athlete that's retired, they need hormone replacement therapy. I'm gonna tell you that right now because of the amount of strain and pressure, or else they're broken men and women. But um, I've never used, never had to use um any kind of hormone replacement or any hormone of any kind because I'm like work with the Olympics, NFL, and NHL. So it's not necessary. And there's another topic of what can you do with technology to still get hormone optimization without having to use biochemistry. And I think that's the next 10 years. You know, we're we're right now into this. When we're talking about hormones, we're simply talking about biochemistry, which is I'll replace this for this. And I think the conversation, like people like you, you know, need to look at and say, uh, what could we do, you know, to get what physics? Because basically fitness is physics, right? That's what we're doing. Nutrition's biochemistry, but fitness is physics. What are we supposed to do to get physics to get biochemistry back? Because as soon as, you know, as soon as we use biochemistry, whether that's pharmacology or hormone replacement therapy, it's a chemistry experiment. When we use physics like technology or movement to assess biochemistry, we actually get repair and recovery. And I think uh you probably did it with physics to empty out biochemistry. Like CrossFit was a great example.

That's what I was doing.

Right. And I'll tell you that this last story, and this is not to poo-poo CrossFit, but James and I. So I probably did the most salivary tests when CrossFit first came out, and it was like, I mean, it wasn't anything like it is today, trust me. Like this was just kind of a bunch of guys, like I think James was in like a muscle shirt and he was just doing some stuff on the ground. I was like, what the fuck is that? Yeah, posting comments on a blog. Right. Yeah. It's like, like, let's just go to exhaustion, and then I could barely turn off my camera. And I was like, all right, that looks cool. Um, but I'm like, okay, this is like this is high lactic training work. Like, we haven't seen something like this. And so we did a bunch of salivary hormone testing on CrossFit. And I mean, this wasn't, you got to remember again, this was when CrossFit wasn't great. So we didn't have these premier athletes. We had good athletes, though. These were like, these weren't bums. And two almost like I'm gonna say a 90% of them had zero adrenal function, like the ones that he wanted me to, the ones that we tested, and the company tested them for free, and there had to be hundreds of them. And I didn't because I would test them after their workout because you're looking for a cortisol response. And it was just like a funny thing to see like a uh we'll say a fitness routine that can be healthy and get such quick results on the back end can strip you a little bit. Yeah, so like there was Pro Sports, does it too, but I'm just saying it's always funny because people want the most aggressive replacement, but they don't look at like they don't look at what's behind the scenes.

Yeah. And what were we doing? And what were we doing early in CrossFit, right? High intensity, low carb. I loved it. Yeah, amazing time. No one knew, like, we're like, we don't know what's going on, but it's something interesting, and it's probably gonna go down the history books. And when I started working with James, my big I started complaining about he's like, hmm, have you got your your hormones tested? I'm like, no, and he suggested I did, and I was like, Oh, yeah, I got problems.

And James was probably the funniest because we practice on James, and then this CrossFit came along, and then all of a sudden, like, which I used to study a lot of paleo eating, but it was like Robert Crahan used to do it, and it was like, this wasn't even cool, right? This is like caveman diets, and then all of a sudden I see like paleo and CrossFit, and I'm like, I can't fit, I can't find two worse ideas. Like, which like I've never heard of this idea, but I'm so engaged that I'm gonna watch how this thing goes. No carbohydrate and just high lactic training workouts, and then all of them were like shitting razor blades, and I'm just sitting here like, this is this is great science. Like, this is this is hard to pay people to do, let alone like everybody's signed up here and they look like Greek goddess. Like, but all but you have no digestive function, and you end up in my office, and we're we honestly have chuckle, we laugh about it. Like me and the the patient will laugh about it. I'm like, what, what did like how did you get into this where you're just eating like pounds of like pounds of hamburger and doing 50 pull-ups? I'm like, did you like remember when you were a kid and your mom said, Don't eat that piece of pizza and go swimming because you might drown? Remember when you had to sit on the beach and you're like, shit, like I shouldn't have eaten that sandwich because Ricky's in the pool and I gotta wait for like 20 minutes. There was a reason because you didn't have blood flow in your arms and legs. Like we figured this out in physiology, and we're like, go pound this nut butter and go get the, go get like the go get friend. And I'm like, I don't know how you're not throwing up, but you are seriously doing some good work. Like, and I'll see you in about six months. You'll look great. Take the photo, like get some get some shots made on the beach, get a spray tan, and then me and you will go back to work. But that was like seeing the evolution of some of these, and and to bring it like hormone replacement's no different. You see the evolution of like, let's get aggressive and do it, and then let's do it right. Yeah, right. Like that that's what we're trying, we're all trying to get to get to the conversation of like, ah, okay, we'll do it as a volume, and then we'll figure out when we're doing it as a volume, how are we gonna do it right? And there's that's when real expertise comes in. We're just trying to do this all right. Yeah.

Oh yeah. I have all my photos saved of 2010 when I was. Oh, you look good. And I look amazing.

Yeah. And the t-shirts that come, and like I'd be like, James is sending me this thing, and I'm like, This is at a fucking YMCA. Like, what are we what are we? You're killing yourself over this? Like, what are we? Who are these guys lined up at this YMCA? Like, and then and they all like, I can't walk into NFL training camp and see anybody look like that. I'm like, you guys look great. Like, but that's like I still laugh about it today. And I can I yeah, I could give you three hours of funny stories where I'm just I've watched these fitness phrases, and with an exercise, the the hard thing is because I have an exercise fizz background and a medical background, like I can I can laugh at both sides of this. Whereas like other doctors will say, that's so terrible. And I'm like, no, that's like you gotta go and strain something in fitness to get a result. But like we don't put the physiology into fitness usually, and we definitely don't talk about fitness in medicine, right? And so we we don't understand the the there's a lot of different levels to each of these different disciplines, they're not as simple as they seem. So um it's it'll continue to be an interesting career as this stuff develops.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Well, Dr. Jobot, thank you. I had a blast, I learned a lot, and uh, I'm sure the audience will too. So yeah, man, enjoy your weekend. Really appreciate it. I will okay, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Jobot. Hey Fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask. Actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I asked you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us. It's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh, it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel or Fitness Marketing Alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge, that's a big deal for us. And we're we put a lot of work into these episodes, uh, trying to give you great actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh, if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at Fitness MarketingAliance.com