Scott Burgett & Andy Beckman - Garmin & The Future of Digital Health

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. Hey friends, I couldn't be more proud and excited to announce that today's episode is powered by workout, the ultimate tool for modern fitness professionals just like you. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Hyperite, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases a product you've already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business to store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k o-ut.com. Just 1-0. W-r-k-o-ut. Go get it. All right, we are live. Scott Burgett, Andy Beckman. Welcome to the future of fitness.

Thank you.

Great to be here. Thanks for having us, Eric.

It is great to be here. I'm so glad that we made this happen. You know, I've I've been talking to Andy uh for a few months now. And Scott, it's a pleasure to meet you in person or virtually, of course. But I I've been a Garmin guy for a very long time, and so is my wife. Now I got her on the boat. I've been using, you know, Garmin technology for gosh, like well over a decade. And I got my Phoenix Five, I have my inreach, I have my chest strap, all that stuff. And I just know the operating system really well. And I'm I'm excited to see what you guys are doing and learn about what you guys are doing in the health sector. So um there's so much to cover here. Let's let's go ahead and dive in. If if you guys don't want to mind, just give us a quick introduction to who you are and what you do over at Garmin, and then we'll uh we'll go from there. And Scott, why don't you go first?

Yeah, thank you. So my name is Scott Burgett. I am the senior director of Garmin Health Engineering. So I lead Garmin's engineering health engineering teams uh uh as we develop the the products, the connectivity products, and some of the features that go into the watches. I also have a larger role at Garmin as for driving the biosensor roadmap. So if it's a biosensor and it's going into the watch, and I uh I I am driving that roadmap and working with our team, global team worldwide to uh get the best technology into our watches and the best sensing technology that is available. So very excited. I like I I I've been working in this space since 2015, but I've been at Garmin since 1998. I'm a GPS guy from way back when, and I'm now uh I'm now a biosensor digital health uh wearable guy.

Wow, yeah, you've seen some things. You've seen some things. Uh Andy, how about you?

Yeah, uh Andy Beckman uh been with Garmin actually 15 years to uh today. So uh quite the celebration that we can have here. But um uh I lead our sales efforts for America's for our Garmin Health business or our Garmin Health and B2B business. So um most people realize that they can go to Best Buy or Walmart or Target or their local run shop or bike shop to get Garmin's. Uh, I manage a lot of the sales that happen outside of those channels. So uh we work with um or my team works with um anything from clinical trials, research trials to uh remote patient monitoring, corporate wellness, and uh helping life insurance applications as well, as well as uh in the gym uh activity for either helping member engagement or loyalty.

Yeah, I think there's a lot uh within what you're you're responsible for, and you that a lot of people don't know about yet, right? Um, at least in you know, yeah, fully agree.

Within the industry. Yeah. It's um, you know, we were actually at a conference last week and everybody was like, Garmin, what what are you doing here? You know, this isn't about runners. And I'm like, well, you know, it's about digital health, and uh, you know, we're here to help get the word out on all the cool stuff that we're doing outside of the things that we're normally known for.

Yeah, excellent. We're gonna dive deep into that today, too. So let's do this. I I think it would be great because as I was talking to you guys before recording, is I don't think people really know the history behind Garmin. Like there, it's it's got some some time behind it, it's got some experience as an organization. So I I'd like to to hear a little bit of maybe a summation of of uh yeah, the last gosh, 30, 40 years that Garmin's been around.

Yeah, I I I I can I can speak to that. So, you know, in our mission statement, we want to be an enduring company. We have survived, right? And we were founded in 1989 by Gary, Burrell, and Min K, the Garmen, Gary and Min. Um, and we started out as a GPS company. We built portable GPS, uh, aviation GPS, marine GPS, handheld GPS, and we have always been driven by creating the best products we can that our customers really are essential to their lives. Like we want to make, we want to bring the best technology into a product and make it essential. Like our customers just can't live without it. And we've been doing that since 1989, and it's been it's it's kind of been a wavy road because back in uh uh in the 2000s, the personal navigation device uh craze occurred, and everybody had a a garment on their dashboard, and we were navigating you by uh turn-by-turn guidance, and you could go from one address to another, and we'd tell you exactly how to do it. That was a big deal, right? Uh our aviation segment has continually grown from the inception is now large. We have a marine segment and they make some amazing products, they make chart plotters, they make sonars that would blow your mind. Our automotive uh area is still really vital. Uh, we're doing more in-dash stuff. We're you know, a big customer for uh BMW. And then in outdoor and fitness, you know, when when you think about the the the the DNA is that, you know, the first the first portable GPS receivers were were handhelds, you know. And that's sort of the whole genesis of the whole wearable thing because we've been doing wearable since 2002. I I worked on the first wearable, I was there when it was born, and it was really born in engineering. And what happened was we were making a very small handheld device, which later turned into our e-trex line, which has been around forever. Everybody knows about Garmin E-Trex. So we have this small handheld GPS device, and obviously the first thing we thought of was, hey, can I go running with this? And we literally started duct taping that device to our wrist and going outside and running. We are all runners. Everyone would go for you know three or four mile run. We get back, we download the data, we'd look at it in the lab, and we realized that yes, this would work as a running device. And that became the Forerunner product. And uh uh that was in 2002, and we have not stopped since then making our Forerunners better. If you look at the evolution, it's pretty amazing. Our battery life is phenomenal. Now they're very small. The first Forerunners were obviously pretty clunky, they were large, uh, but they worked really well. And uh that was the beginning of the wearables for us, is like, man, we can we can make GPS work on your wrist. And you know, as part of, you know, we're just relentlessly going after technology, right? We want to have the best battery life, the best displays, uh, the best technology, really the best user experience. So as we kept going for that, you know, running and training was part of our DNA. And one of the things that's really valuable is heart rate. And back about 2014, 2015, people started doing heart rate on the watch with an optical sensor, not a chest strap, because no one really likes to wear a chest strap. And that's where I came into the uh the uh digital health picture, the biosensor picture was in 2015 when Garmin built its first optical heart rate sensor that was embedded into a watch. And uh we've been doing that since 2015. Um, we've invested heavily in that, and we own all of that technology. It's developed from top to bottom by Garmin, from picking the components, the LEDs, the photodiodes that go into the sensor all the way through all the algorithms, and then all of the features, all the all of the derived algorithms like your training load, you know, your VO2 Max. Uh the great part about that was that optical sensor really was what sort of just blew open the digital health space because the optical sensor can sense so much about how your heart beats, you know, from the wrist. And there's so much health and wellness information encoded in that signal. It's called a PPG signal. It's the optical sensor uses something called a photopletismography. It's called photoplethismography, and you can look that up and spell that. But we use PPG, and we can see a signal that represents your heart rate from the wrist, and we are able to process that signal and get all sorts of really, really valuable health information, uh uh uh uh, you know, and provide that to you about, you know, here's how you doing, how are you sleeping? Um, what's your stress level? What's your body battery level? Are you overtraining? Are you under training? It's amazing what we've done. Um and just just I know this is a long answer, but just to keep going there is is is that we provide all this information to our users, right? And it's our users' data, and they can do with it what they want, right? They they can train themselves, they can share it. But the digital health space really was born when users, like Garmin users, agreed to share their data with other companies who could provide value, like a coach or like somebody who was monitoring how well they're doing with their post op for their uh um hip replacement or insurance applications. So what's what's powerful is the combination of excellent sensor data and then the connectivity so that the data can go from the user's possession into the possession of this big space of digital health companies and digital health applications and provide value for the user. And and that's where I think Garmin is really we're you we're really unique in that we have the best sensing platform and we also provide ways for third parties to access this data at a very low level so they can really do interesting research. Because, you know, we are not physiologists, we are engineers, right? And so we're an ecosystem player. We want to provide the best wearable, the best battery life, the best user experience, and also the best interfaces so that third parties who are physiologists, clinicians, medical doctors, you name it, physical therapists, third-party people can come in and add value with that data as well. So we're squarely an ecosystem play, but we work really hard to make sure we have the best sensor data as well as good interfaces to provide that data where people want to share it, you know, for their own benefit.

Excellent. That was a great overview. And I want there's things that we're gonna circle back on, especially the um the third party, the you know, for practitioners and coaches and how they can use that interface. Um, one of the things I want to ask you guys about is that, you know, you've been around for a long time as a company. The last five, I don't know, five, six years, would you say the wearable space has blown up? And I'm a huge fan of the wearable category overall. I mean, I just uh recently had a conversation with Michael Chap from Aura, um Kristen Holmes from Woop, you know, I've I've got to talk to a lot of people about the space. And yeah, there's competition, but I look at the whole category as like extremely promising overall. I mean, the I think you know, if there's good competition in the space, that just pushes everything forward better, faster, right? Um, so when you look at now the newer landscape of wearable technology, like where does Garmin sit? Like how do you differentiate? Um, what are your unique advantages? Uh give us some insights into the market overall.

Uh I'll give it a shot and then you can uh you can support me. So so I think uh Eric from our perspective, uh, and maybe just playing off a little bit about the last question, too, is um we like to fuel people's passions. So, you know, Scott, Scott referenced runners. So we've we created a wearable because we had a group of runners at Garmin. And those same runners are running Boston Marathon, they're running New York City Marathon. Those are the same engineers that are building our product. So that's really how many categories get get started at Garmin was somebody was passionate about it and decided to to put it into a product. So you know, our fish finding business were uh created by people that love to fish and wanted to you know find out where the fish were and uh and whatnot. So um, so you know, our our whole focus is what's best for for the user. And from our perspective, um, that helps us and lead us to guide you know what the product should do and and what you know what's important. So you know, from us, you know, but if you want to take the runner example again or even cyclist example, we believe that long battery life is is essential to the the the product success or the or the user experience, right? If you always have to take it off to charge it, you know, that that is one, it's a poor user experience, but especially on the digital health space, if you always have to take it off, uh there's a period of time where you're not being able to track what's going on uh during that time. So uh we've realized that that sleep and recovery is is a big part of the of the picture, the digital health picture. And if you're having to take your watch off to charge it overnight, so you're ready the next day for your notifications, you're you're losing a big part of that of that uh conversation or that or that picture. So um so for us, you know, prolonged battery life is is a big deal. Uh sunlight readable displays are also uh a huge uh part of that too. Um but then also more importantly is just you know in Scott's wheelhouse there with the with the biosensing and and being able to provide metrics that are uh easily understandable as well as um you know valuable for researchers and things like that. You know, one one something that somebody many people don't know if you're not in the Garmin ecosystem is we created this uh software, you know, uh a feature called body battery. And really it's super simple because it it takes into account stress and sleep and activity, and it basically tells you if you're recharging overnight and if you're charged up and ready to go for the next day. So uh you can then see, hey, am I potentially getting sick? Um, you know, how's stress affecting my life? Um, you know, do I need to get more sleep? Today, you know, I'm supposed to do a run workout. Is today gonna be a good day, you know, to maximize the benefit of that workout, or you know, should I push it off tomorrow and maybe take it as a as an easy day? So um, so I think in general, with the umbrella of you know, we we create products that fuel people's passions, uh, that really helps us to lead uh to that. So Scott, I don't know if you have any additional things to address.

I think that's a great answer. You know, we we use what we make, we're passionate about what we do, and and it's it's a fantastic thing to have a career like that where you get to build things that you use, you know, and if it doesn't work well, you you it doesn't work well for you and you're motivated to fix it, right? I mean, again, our in our mission statement as a company, we want to be essential for people's lives, right? And so we want to create products that people want to use or easy to use, like long battery life. Uh, you know, you could geek out on all this stuff about beat to beat intervals or heart rate variability and all of the cool things that we're able to sense, but what we real we really need our users to get things that are meaningful, right? And help them with their lives. And so we we take a lot of effort to do that and try to create products that really resonate. And if you're really a techie kind of trainer and are interested in lots of metrics, we've got that for you. But if you're if you're just a regular health user, right, who wants to improve their life and improve their health status, we've got that product for you as well. We we we're looking at the whole range of of users. Now, I will give you uh a little anecdote about battery life. Um, I just can't resist doing this. So um the first forerunners that we came out with were I think we I think the first ones that really got a lot of sales were were the 205 and 305. And uh this is back when you know we didn't have chips that were really, really low power. So the battery life when you were actually using the device with GPS on and running with it was about three hours, three and a half hours. Now they're over 30 hours. All right, we're way better than that. This is back in 2004 or 2005.

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So we sell this product, we get we get an email a couple days after the Boston Marathon, and this came to engineering, and it was somebody who was running in Boston and their GPS, their Carmen Forina ran out of battery like a mile from the finish. And we were gutted and we were just gutted in engineering. We were like, oh my God, we can never allow that to happen again. We've got to fix this problem. We've got to make this battery life longer because we can't have that happening. People need to be able to run a marathon with our watches. And we the next generation, we fixed that problem. I mean, we were, we were, we were all over it, but we're passionate about battery life, and everything we do is about battery life and engineering. When when we're when we're roadmapping what next-gen products will look like and what we're gonna, you know, what kind of parts and chips we're going to use, battery life is is front and center because we know that's just so important to people. It makes it easier for them to use it. Um, you know, now we have Enduro, you can go run the Leadville 100 wearing a Garmin watch, and it's no problem. We got the battery easy for that. So, I mean, that's that's the kind of company we are. Like we really listen to our customers and we build what they need, and and we're constantly doing that.

Yeah, anecdotally, too, to you know, throw another anecdote in there is uh I think it was two summers ago. Um, my wife and I, a friend, were on a pack rafting trip, you know, out in the middle of nowhere um on the flat middle fork of the flathead. And, you know, I had for redundancy purposes, I had my Garmin uh Phoenix Five, you know, tracking GPS the whole time. So that was, you know, essentially, I would say total two days of of tracking. You know, I just tracked when we were on the river, so six, seven hours a day. And uh, and I was shocked that I didn't have to pull out my external battery, like the whole time it was it was good to go. And it was really critical because we needed to know at certain point how far we had gone, you know, when we needed to stop. So it was it was really useful. And then of course the battery life on the in-reach, uh, I've been so people don't know what that is. That's like uh, what would you call that? Like an emergency.

A satellite, satellite communicator for yeah, you it's it's for emergencies, but it also lets you check in at home when you're out in the wilderness, right? Way far away from any other connectivity. Yeah, yeah, that's a great project. Yeah, two-way connection, not just not just a single.

Yeah, you can text me. I can text message from the middle of nowhere. It's awesome, right? Using it, which is pretty pretty incredible. That's right.

Um yeah, I think one that one other thing that kind of sets us apart, maybe, is you know, and Scott kind of referenced it, but we're doing all of our own designs. We're doing all of our own manufacturing in our own facilities. So, you know, we're very vertically integrated. That was kind of one of the um kind of core uh core uh strategies that our that our founders had is that you know we wanted to control the process from point A to point B throughout. Um and and in the in the tech space, that's not always the case. You know, normally they're going to somebody. And say, you know, build me, build me a lot of these or you know, whatever. So um it's uh it's very refreshing and and not normal uh for us to you know be as vertically integrated as we as we are.

And do you find with with that where you guys hang your hat on your strengths? I mean, the operating system too, what I've noticed from Garmin is, you know, it's a little bit more complex, but once you get it, it's very robust, right? Like to kind of understand it at first. I mean, when you um and the reason I say that is like your users must be, once they're on board, they must be very devout, devout, devout to uh to the brand. Who who is the actual users? I mean, do you guys have specific like demographic information, like, okay, this is our ideal person? I mean, you mentioned, you know, fueling people's passions, which means I I would imagine it's it's a very active lifestyle type person, right? Is that is that accurate?

Uh it is accurate, but I would also say, you know, we one thing that people always uh also say is, wow, there are so many options here. What, you know, what is right for me? And to be real honest, everything that we do, at least in the, you know, when we look in the 50-foot level, probably it it is purpose built for that specific use case. Um, so a lot of times it's, you know, is it budgetary needs? Is it I want to be a better runner and I want to have, you know, all the things, all the stats. Uh, you know, if we want to keep keep pulling on the on the uh running running thing, you know, you got people just starting out that maybe want to, you know, create, you know, pass their first 5k. You got people in the middle that want a little of uh simplicity and you know, kind of that taste of of extra data, and then they get the high-end too of just people that give it to me all. I want to know everything about what I'm doing and how I'm gonna do it. So um, so I think, you know, depending on who you or what kind of watch we make or what kind of wearable or product, there's always a specific person that it's built for to just say Garmin is, you know, 20 to 20 to 55, uh, you know, 100%, you know, 80% male and 20% female, you know, isn't really the case. You know, we uh earlier, what, two years ago, we launched a Lily and it was completely designed, marketed, and um, you know, the ID for and everything was was done by females on our team. And it was really the wearable for a female. Um, you know, so it was really purpose built for to design something attractive that uh females wanted to wear, and you know, you can't do that unless you know you you you empower people on the team, and we got a lot of great people on our team to to do some awesome things. So um, you know, but to Scott's point, we also have people that are ultra marathoners, right? And so it's like, okay, well, tell us what you got. And um, you know, what what do you need to make this successful? And and you know, we have Enduro 2 now, and it's taken leaps and bounds from Enduro 1. Um, we have people that dive. You know, we we started a diving wearable category at Garmin uh a few years back, Mila, because there's you know some very passionate divers at Garmin too. And and you would think in them in Kansas City, where there's not many dive options uh you know from an ocean perspective, anywhere close, but we have some really passionate and knowledgeable divers that have created just tremendous products based upon the products. Yeah, don't forget cycling products.

We have so many cyclists at Garmin, a lot of passion there um in designing and building just the best bike computers, power meters. Our our our cycling ecosystem is really pretty cool, pretty cool stuff. What we have. We have radars. You can put a radar on your bike. Uh we build bike radars. Is that cool or what? I mean, just all this technology, right? We're just putting in products and getting it out there for people to use.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. Just a that that bike radar, if if you're not familiar, Eric, but basically it's just a radar on the back, it's back seat posts, it's a taillight as well, and it will alert you while on your bike computer, and it's not just Garmin, you know, you could do Wahoo or um you know uh hammerhead or whatever, but it will tell you if cars are coming up from behind a football field and a half back, so 150 meters or 150 yards back, it will tell you if cars are coming up from behind you. And if you think about that application, once again, fuel people's passions, making them more confident on the road. You know, instead of constantly turning behind and pulling, pulling into traffic a lot when you think you may hear a car, now you're actually seeing that visual representation in front of you. And it it is amazing the confidence that it gives you, you know, while you're out on a road where there's cars buzzing by you.

It's uh that's kind of stuff, you know. It's my wife always makes fun of me because I will get into an activity because of the technology around the activity, right? Like, not the opposite of way. Like, so we'll be like shopping for something, and someone be like, Oh yeah, these boots are a little bit more technical, or tactical is the other word that always gets me. And she just rolls her eyes, she's like, Oh god, this salesperson just got them. I'm like, Oh yeah, I want the technical version 100%. Um well, have you ever thought about being a pilot?

Because we actually have um we have uh oh autoland is what it's called. So basically, say you're a pilot, Eric, and maybe you are. Uh you and I go up, something unfortunate happens to you. I don't know how to fly a plane. If your plane is outfitted with Garmin Auto Land technology, we can hit a button and it will land the plane and guide me to how to land the plane. That's amazing. That's amazing. Hey, I mean, if you think about it's that kind of technology, that kind of just understanding of whatever you know thing we're we're attacking, it's those kind of just things and technology and innovation that we're bringing to the wearables. I mean, it's that same kind of passion, same kind of understanding um that everyday consumers can use as well.

You know, I I want to um get into Garmin Health, uh like the actual category. I mean, I I look at the the slogan you guys have, you know, Garmin Health empowering the future of digital health. That's a you know a very powerful statement, right? I mean, there's a lot to be unpacked within that that one statement, and I want to give it due diligence on this episode. So when we talk about digital health, what does that mean to you when when you say those two words together?

That's a pretty broad, it's a pretty broad term. And I agree with you. I think I think it's it, I think a a real concise definition might be hard to come by. Um, I'll just give you my opinion on this. So so I think I I think digital health goes from an individual who's trying to improve their lifestyle and improve their health status, right? They're beginning their fitness journey and they're using technology to guide what they're doing. Like, are am I working out enough? Am I working out too much? What's a good workout? Uh can I can I keep track of my workout so I can motivate myself? So that's I feel like that's digital health, and it's at a very personal level. But I think I think digital health reaches all the way into uh digital therapeutics, right? I think you've heard of that. I I think the acronym is DTX. I think it goes all the way to digital therapeutics where you we are able, we we, the broad industry, is able to do things like provide therapy for people who have particular medical conditions using digital sensors on a watch, right? And the connectivity solutions and and a lot of a lot of algorithm and a lot of great, you know, great uh platform development by lots of people. But I I think it spans this huge category from personal to like, you know, I just had uh I have congestive heart failure, and my standard of care is to be issued a wearable, a garment wearable, and it will measure my heart and it will send data back to my clinician and they monitor how I'm doing and they keep track of me and they make sure that I'm doing as well as I can do. There's so much value here. I mean, the societal value of what we can do, and what really unlocks it is the fact that we can monitor and sense your heart rate and things about you 24-7 with you know, good battery life. You never have to take it off, but every five to seven days. We can monitor that 24 hours a day. You don't have to fill out a questionnaire, you don't have to self-report anything, it's all objective data measured by a by an electronic device. And because of the connectivity, it's flowing back to someone who's monitoring you, and this therapy is just working. So it's super broad. Uh, there are great insurance applications, right? And and one place that I would I you know I put it in the digital health category is some insurers will are using wearables to motivate you to get in better shape and they give you a discount on your premium, for example, if if if you do things like walk or run or lose weight. So it's there are so many applications, and it's just really uh uh uh quite a you know, like I say, you can't put your finger on it, right? You it's it's it's a broad, broad, you know, uh universe of applications. But like where I like where Garmin is, is it all comes back to having good biosensing data, right? Good data that that that is high resolution and and it's trustable, it's accurate, and there's a way to get it from your wearable to wherever it needs to go for your for your benefit. So um that's kind of how I would find digital health. I know that's not a great two-line answer, but it's a hard one.

It is, it is a hard one. I uh I would also sorry, Eric. No, no, go ahead, Andy. I want to yeah, please expand on it.

Yeah, I was just gonna uh just make a couple couple of comments. One, it's the user's data, and they always get to determine if they want to share or not. I just want to make sure that's clear in case maybe your your your listeners don't understand that. It's always up to the user to decide if they want to share or not. It's not up to Garmin. Um, so so just make sure that. But you know, the thing that I'm really excited about and kind of taking it from Scott too, I um I liken it to, you know, almost cramming for a test, right? You you have your annual physical coming up. You might think in your mind, oh, well, I better start wire, I better start uh trying to lose weight, I better start being a little bit more active, or the doctor's gonna understand, you know, maybe what's happening that week before I go in. But it is a lot of self-reporting. But I guess my my hope and my vision, and I think, you know, what a lot of what Scott said is I can give you a full picture between my annual physicals now by wearing a garment wearable and sharing that. Oh, I could share this with my doctor and say, oh, it looks like and then he could say or she could say, hey, it looks like your sleep, you slept less this year than last year. Oh, and your stress is up. Oh, and looks at this, your respiration is also maybe not as not as great as it was last year. You know, some of those indications can then turn into further conversation that will hopefully help to, you know, provide a little bit additional longevity and and maybe uncover some things that, you know, me just saying, hey, how you feeling? Oh, I'm good, you know, and you know, so now there's a little bit more truth to uh truth to that.

And this is the uh, you know, what I've always considered the holy grail of wearables, which is integration into healthcare. Um, walk me through that. So I have my Garmin data, right? Um, I want to share it with a practitioner or a coach. Like what does that process look like? Obviously, there must be some sort of platform on the back that the practitioner and coach can see. Like, what does that process look like? And then secondary question to that, and then I'll let you talk, but how much adoption has there been within the medical community for this type of data so far? So, yeah, first of all, how's it look? And then what's the adoption look like?

So I think there's a lot of uh there's a lot of road left in getting wearable data integrated into medical health systems, medical health records, things like that. I think it's it's beginning to happen. Um, and I think it's becoming more and more common. Uh my opinion is that it's happening at a more rapid clip in countries where people they have a single payer system, right? There's one healthcare system, not a multiples, multiple different healthcare providers like there is in the US. So I see I see it going in that direction. I think there's a lot, there's a long way to go yet to get that all integrated, but I think it will. Um, and again, you know, go ahead. Yeah.

Scott, where what what countries?

Like what countries would you give an example where you're so so Germany has a law called Diga, D-I-G-A, and it is actually really encouraging using wearable information, wearable data. Uh you have to wearable data for some sort of digital therapeutic purpose. And the German healthcare authority will reimburse for this therapy, right? So I think I think that's that's that law is encouraging lots of innovation. So, but what you have to do is you have to start with a wearable and and a plan, and then you have to prove it to the German authorities, right? You have to do a clinical study, you have to show your efficacy of whatever your therapy is. But if you can do that, they will actually reimburse that company for that therapeutic and it incorporates a wearable, right? And so the wearable is not a medical device, it's it's not FDA approved or MDR approved or anything like that, but it is allowed to be used in the therapy. And I think that's a power, I think that's powerful uh what they're what they're trying to do there. And I think more countries are going to be adopting that um for uh you know integrating wearable data into digital therapies that can be reimbursed, right? That they're actually like a standard of care for I've got COPD or I've got congestive heart failure or I just had a hip replacement or a knee replacement. I I see it moving in that direction. Not so much in the US yet, but I think in other countries they're they're ahead of us there. Yeah, I love it.

And I guess maybe, Eric, just to pull back just a little bit, how that all happens. We have APIs and SDKs, and then we work with different partners that have platforms, and then um they will send you an email and say, hey, do you agree to share your data with this platform? Um so we work with different partners to do that.

So yeah, yeah, it's great. I mean, is there um can you give us an example of a partner that you guys are working with and how that how that information kind of comes over? I mean, it's hard without getting a visual. Like if I'm sure if we saw it, it would be like, oh, I get it. But like who who are some of your premier partners in that space and how does that integration look?

Yeah, probably the one that may maybe resonates the most with your your um, I guess, user base is you know, similar to like Strava or Training Peaks. Uh, so that that that process is how it works. So they have a platform. Uh we work with our APIs uh to bring them together. And it's I like to think of it, they're just we're putting pipes together uh of data to flow between the two companies. So Training Peaks is a good example. Uh with them, we actually use a training API as well, which they can you can your coach on training peaks can actually send a workout back. Normally it's Garbin data going to their platform, but in our training API instance, it's actually uh a workout on their side being pushed over to Garbin so you can have it on your wearable too. So um sometimes there's one way, sometimes there's bi-directional.

Yeah. Yeah, I I I think it's great for the coach. I mean, you know, we we look at obviously here in the United States, the regulations, peer-reviewed studies, that all things need to happen, right, in order for this to really get fully integrated. But I think at the level of like coaches and trainers and fitness professionals, and I guess even wellness professionals is that category may be called, it's it's very doable, you know. Um, and I'm I think I'm curious, how has the adoption been? I mean, those are huge platforms, training peaks, right? Strava, tremendous platforms. Um, how has the the fitness and wellness industry uh been taking in Garmin and especially compared to like you know some of the other competition in the wearable space? Like how's the traction in in that particular category?

Uh, you know, very well. Uh, you know, can't really speak to the can't speak to the numbers, but um, you know, we like to think of it's it's the user's data, as Scott mentioned earlier. And if they want to share it to wherever they want to share it, we we want to help to support them to do that. I think in general, um we we are selective to some of those partners, but if people make a request, we will definitely evaluate it and and and put it there. I think we feel like we have many of the the ones that have the greatest popularity and um the ones that people are are sharing to the most, um, you know, like the Stravas, Training Peaks, Kamut, um, you know, people like that, but um, but always open for for other other opportunities for sure. I think Scott, I don't know if you're gonna be able to do that. No, I think that sounds good.

I think I think our wearables are very fit for purpose for gym training and things like that. And and we're on those big platforms for sure.

Yeah. And I'm excited too. I mean, Andy, you know, you and I have been talking about uh workout and what the possibilities are with that platform. Um I think it's really exciting to start exploring that. I mean, it's something I've been looking at for the last five years with various endeavors that I've had across wearable devices and the data and getting in the hands of coaches and trainers. And to me, that's that's such a valuable thing. I mean, um, you know, ultimately we always want the what I call the okay, now what, right? We deliver people data on their wearables. Most people are like, oh, I've I don't know, and now what? What do I do with it? And now we can either do that through technology of like making suggestions, right? I think Word does a good job on their platform of gently making suggestions, right, non-judgmental way for people for their health. But ultimately, I think the best course of action is getting that data flowing through people who make it their profession, right? The coaches and the trainers and the, you know, the practitioners really. So that that's really exciting to me. And I think that's something that um the industry really needs. And, you know, if you are a trainer and a coach uh and you're listening to this and you haven't yet for some strange reason, you know, started considering wearable data in in your practice and with your clients, then please do, you know, and start with Garmin. Yeah. I mean, it's it's you need to have that now. That's not going anywhere. And it's really important for people to to really adopt it into their uh into their day-to-day work. So anyway, that's that's my my diatribe.

Um yeah. And I think in general, too, people the the trainers and coaches that do take that data and help to speak to their to their customers, I think they create the I think they create the customers for life, right? They, you know, it's just you know, that's one reason why people go to trainers and coaches to to be educated and and to to learn more about what is working for them and or not working for them.

Yeah, 100%. And uh I think I have to give credit to Stephen Webster from Ace Sensei, he he called it super coaches, right? Like we don't want technology to ever take the place of the coach. It's too valuable. That the the level of empathy and humanity that comes with that relationship is just undeniably valuable. It can never be replaced by tech. Well, I can't say never. I don't see it being replaced by tech. So it's, you know, if we can enable coaches to work with more clients in a deeper way, then that's a huge win. And that's that's why I love what you know, these type of uh, you know, actions that companies like you like Garmin are taking. Uh, I want to ask you guys about something too, because one of my constituents at work out specifically, Mitch wanted me to ask you this, but how do you um how do you build community around technology, right? Like you seem to have a very solid community of users, people within your organization. You guys have been there for 15 plus years each, right? Like there's something about that. Like, what is it about the brand, about the way you guys work, interact with your um consumers and and your community? How do you build that?

Yeah, I think Garmin Connect probably is our biggest um biggest option for that. Um, you know, we um we create that, you know, either through challenges uh that people can join, uh either uh step challenge every week with people they don't know. Um, you know, you obviously you can like and comment on uh on everybody's activities that you're friends with. Uh you can become friends with people uh all throughout. So that's a big one. You know, we spend a lot of time. Um some may consider grassroots marketing, but we have uh we actually have an events uh specialist team that goes out and basically builds community. So uh we have a team out at Sea Otter last week uh out in Monterey, California, uh for the big cycling event there in the U.S. And you know, their whole goal was being out there, you know, going on rides, talking, you know, and once again, we're we're we're we find people that are passionate about certain activities, and then we uh empower and enable them to go out and create that community. So uh Walter Summers and Riley Swickert are are on our marketing and events team, and and they were actually out there talking, talking shop with uh with a bunch of cyclists out there, and they're they're very accomplished cyclists themselves. So um, so in general, we try to meet people where they are, but many of the times that also meets where our passions are. You know, we're out at Boston Marathon putting on uh fun runs and and we take devices and allow people to try them out. And uh normally, you know, as you mentioned earlier, Eric, once people get get a garment on their wrist or on their bike or or you know, as part of their activity, they they are garment customers for life and then and then they start to build community after that.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Um, SpaceX. I want to touch on that before time runs out. That's pretty cool. So you guys are working with SpaceX now, and and they're I guess are they still called astronauts? I don't really know, but the people they're sending into space. Um, yeah, tell us about that project. That's really cool.

Well, that was uh that is cool. And uh, you know, they reached out to us about using wearable data and getting wearable information from their astronauts on this mission. It's called Polaris Dawn. And uh it's a pretty ambitious mission. It's gonna have a spacewalk component to it. Um It's gonna be at a fairly high orbit, uh, gonna have a spacewalk, and uh they really have a a very, a very, you know, uh uh distinguished data science team, physiology team that wants to look at these sorts of things, and they came to Garmin because of our battery life and our biosensors, right? Because you can imagine on a space flight, the last thing you want to do is mess around with charging a watch. They did not want to have to do that. And they're using our Phoenix watches because our Phoenix watches have fantastic battery life, and they just put they charge them, put them on before launch, wear them the whole mission, they land, the data's all there. It's all it just it's it's super easy for them. And they're excited about you know some of the some of the metrics that we can measure, like Pulse Ox, uh, a lot of the heart rate information, uh the stress information, uh, things like that. So uh they're going to do you know some research on crew mission and stress and crew rest and what it takes to crew these missions well. And you know, we're just super excited to be part of it. Uh I you know, I I we we talk to them from time to time. Everything seems to be going well. I think they're going to launch uh later in the summer. I I I don't know exactly their schedule, but they're getting close. And I just can't wait to see uh to see how our watches do in that environment. I I expect they'll do very well and they'll get a lot of really valuable information and do a lot of great science. So um, you know, uh I don't think a Garmin watch has ever been in uh in orbit or certainly never been in zero G, right? So I'm waiting to see how what happens to some of our uh sensing stuff when uh there's no gravity. Um I think we've run out all of those little problems that might occur if you assume you're on Earth under 1G conditions, but uh it's neat and uh we're happy to be a part of it and we hope to continue to do further launches with them.

Yeah, that's fun. That's really fun. Um, you know, I know uh time's ticking, I I gotta let you guys off uh so you can continue your Fridays. But last question I always enjoy asking is, you know, uh in the spirit of collaboration across the community here that we have, uh what do you guys need right now? You know, what's important to you? What would you want people to reach out for? Um, yeah, expand on that.

Yeah, I think um what I like to tell people is Garmin Health is a is a small subset of Big Garmin. Um in general, we're we're a small and fairly nimble team, and you know, we are open for partnership, we're open for uh collaboration. Um you know, kind of if you think about the things we've talked about here today on how to use wearables to either further uh remote patient monitoring or uh an application where you know getting Garmin devices on your customers or whatever uh makes sense and and you want to help to to further that, um, you know, drop us a line, uh, LinkedIn, shoot me a DM, you know, whatever, and and we can have a conversation and and see how we can do that.

I would second that we need more visibility and more exposure. Well, what we're doing is is really awesome and uh really part of uh what is kind of a disruptive segment of you know the economy, this digital health stuff. And so the more people know what we're doing and know that we know that we can partner with them and help enable their application, the more the whole segment grows, uh the better off everyone is. So um yeah, I'm I'm hoping for the day when people we stop meeting people and they're like, Garmin does that? What do you you know, they're surprised, right? Uh uh we're we're in it and we're a vital player here and we have great products. And so we want more people to talk to us and reach out to us and and and uh see if we can partner.

Right on. And I I would just add, Eric, that you know, if if they have an application, they need Garmin products, you know, we also have you know logistics um, you know, solutions for them. Um, you know, we can work them up, you know, good good pricing on on that too and and whatnot. So uh we're like I said, we're very flexible, very nimble, uh, you know, so don't be don't be nervous about you know reaching out if uh if there is an application that you think uh makes sense.

Awesome. And and where would you like them to go? I mean, do you guys want I know you guys are on LinkedIn. Um is there a better way to connect with you if if they want, or is that the place?

Yeah, LinkedIn's probably the best uh best place for me. Uh that's you know, I'm on there a lot. You know, that's how Eric and I kind of uh got together anyway. So um, and then yeah, just drop me a DM on there and and we can uh start from there.

Fantastic. Well gentlemen, thank you so much. This is uh I've been waiting for this interview for for so long, and I'm so glad that uh we we made this happen. And I love what you're doing. You know, obviously I'm a big fan of of the category overall and Garmin specifically. So um really excited to to see what comes next and uh best of luck on everything and thanks for coming on. So, ladies and gentlemen, Scott Burget and Andy Beck. Thank you. Thanks, Eric. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This was your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Catbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the feature of fitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.