Micro Franchising - Mark Norton

When I was doing the book and we were doing things like uh click clipper you know for a long time. Then MySpace. Then Facebook. Now it's Instagram, then you know, who knows what the next thing is, but the thing that always works, networking.

What's up, fitness friends? Welcome back to the Future of Fitness podcast and interview series. This is your host, Eric Malzone, coming to you from my Big Fork Montana Studios. Uh just within the Big Fork. Pretty exciting. Nice place right on Flathead Lake. Uh actually, it's awful. Don't come here. Just kidding. It's beautiful. So we are on episode number 136. I get to talk to Mark Norton. So Mark was referred to me. Um, gosh, I wish I could remember who now. Uh but he's a great guy. He's been in the industry for quite some time. You know, uh, facility owner, trainer, uh, marketer, you name it. And now he's working with uh Red Line, uh, Redline Express and launching what's called a microfranchise. So it's it's new to me, the concept is. Uh I feel like I'm pretty well versed in the industry. But yeah, micro franchising, what a what a fascinating idea, right? Uh it makes a ton of sense as you hear him uh explain it. And we don't just talk about micro franchising, of course, we talk about the whole thing, you know, where the fitness industry is, um, how to be successful in it, uh, you know, there's no shortcuts, all of that. And it's just really uh fun and inspiring and educational too. So yeah, it was awesome. I really appreciate Mark coming on. So before we get into it, a couple plugs, of course, uh go to EliteGyminsiders.com. So if you are a franchisee, uh any type of gym owner, CrossFit, Boutique, uh, Spin, Yoga, Pilates, uh, Health Club, you name it, it's a great community to be in. Uh, I think we're around 400 members now. Uh, it's free. Uh, it's on Slack, and you can find it at EliteGymInsiders.com. And uh you can get in there. And pretty soon, um, if we haven't yet, uh by the time this airs, we will have launched um one of our affiliate partners. So you'll be getting discounts on things like digital marketing, mentorship, um, CRMs, uh, you name it, anything that's important to gymming, right? Uh, education, all of that. So go check out elitegyminsiders.com. And if you have any questions, just let me know. Uh secondly, uh, Certified Course Creation. Go to certifiedcoursecreation.com. Uh, they are building out, we are building out, as I'm part of the team, uh, amazing online accredit certifications that are not only uh great uh educational pieces, but lucrative. You know, I won't speak numbers on our clients that we've released so far, but it's great. Uh it's you know, we're talking easy five-figure launches uh and much more to come year after year, month after month, day after day. It's just a great way to put your flag in the sand and claim your expertise in a particular area if you have one. So if you do, go to certifiedcoursecreation.com, find out more. You can schedule time with me, and we'll chat about uh what your idea is and where it lands in the market and what the opportunity looks like because I would love that conversation. So go to certifiedcoursecreation.com. And without further ado, we're on episode number 136 with Mark Norton, and we talk about micro franchising and so much more. Enjoy the show. All right, and we're live. Mark, welcome. Oh, thanks for having me on, Eric. Yeah, man. Um, who referred you, by the way? Oh, that was Tom Jacobs. Tom Jacobs, yeah. Well, thank you, Tom. Uh if you're listening, appreciate it uh connecting us. It's uh some really interesting topics that we're going to, and you're, you know, uh very seasoned veteran of the industry. You've you've seen and done a lot of things. So there's gonna be a lot of value in there. And uh I always like to start with just you know, give us your story, man. Give us your background, kind of a little bit of your bio.

Oh, yeah. Um, so I started in the industry in like '96 after graduating from University of Colorado with a kinesiology degree. And really went into 24-hour fitness, and it was in a break shop. Like I had two trainers there. They in every day had to learn how to how to work that business. Um, then my uh my roommate and I moved down here to Phoenix and from Colorado, and I started with uh Q the Sports Club. Uh grew with them, was a regional vice president. So I had five clubs that I was running for personal training. And um then Grand opened a place out in Glendale, California, and like in 15 days we wrote $120,000 in PT sales, and like that was 90 99, right? Um after that, 24-hour fitness bought us out. Um, all those middle level managers they got rid of. And uh so then I opened up my own first, my first business of like 24. I thought I knew everything, right? Like I can I can sell $100,000 in PT. I can do this. Like, so moved to Cleveland, Ohio, and I subled it out of uh the personal training, out of uh a place called um oh shoot, what was the name of it? It was such a bad memory. It was like 15 months of hell, right? Um and everything was done on paper, sign up sheets and all that kind of stuff. So I'd have to go collect at all the different gyms, and then September 11th happened, and I was like stuck there. Um so sold it to another entity, came back and helped start uh Massage Envy with the guy that used to own Kizas Sports Club and ran the corporate to the corporate locations, wrote the operations manual, the sales manual, all the same thing that was built on like personal training we did for massage, right? And everybody knows the must the story afterwards, but at the time it was like this is this is crazy. What are you guys doing with massage? Um then from there went and opened up uh my own training in the in a studio and then started running a boot camp where I built that up to like 150 people, then started my own like facility, right, with uh a business partner, and we just did golf, right? That was we had women and golf trainers. So we were training like some of the pros on tour, right? Like Paul Casey and um and training some of the people that were swing coaches in CBS sports and all that kind of stuff. So that was pretty cool. Um then I got into business coaching for trainers because of all that like experience, yeah, and uh and just recently um got out of that and started training again. But now I'm back with John with the massage MV in the queue, and then trying to help trainers out in that next step because there's all these uh all these trainers that are being certified, and then they're quitting, they're not making enough money. So that's where where we're at right now is micro franchising for personal trainers so that they have something that's affordable, but they could actually use this to grow a business to make money. Um, where otherwise they're either trying to go to a big box gym or a personal training studio and then dropping out after a year, two years. They never really get to that. What is it, 10,000 hours that they talk about that you become you become an expert at something? Right? So they never even really get there. Yeah, yeah.

Man. So, you know, in in your in your experience, like walk us through what you think like the normal fitness professional personal trainer experience is like, from getting certified or why they get certified to getting certified to what their their lifespan looks like.

Well, it it is being in the business for 20, you know, 23 years, almost going on in 24. It's odd because I've been through so many different iterations of like what training was, right? Right. Um back when I started with the K the Sports Club, I I hired a whole staff. I had 24 people out here in Scottsdale, and 20 of them are still training in the business. So at that time, it was like had to have an education, you know, and they got we got paid really well, right? Um, and so they're all still training, but they they created relationships, and they're those people are like still with them today, you know? Um, or they've gotten enough uh results with people that they get referrals and all that kind of stuff. Nowadays, it's like the somebody gets certified because they love fitness, they think it looks cool from Instagram, right? Like I'm gonna have all this fame. Um and they don't really get the personal relationships, is what I and so the now the lifespan is like 50% of the people that are getting certified are done within a year. 50% of them are done within the second year.

Wow.

20% are still training after like you know, five years. So um I I don't know if that answers the question that we did ask, like what what's going on? It's just it's just change, right? It's yeah, an $85 billion year industry or something like that, right? Some crazy number. Somebody's making money. Yeah. Um, but it's not the trainers, right? It's not the people that are providing the service and helping the people out. Um, and then and then the customers just get uh fed up because they're getting cycled through all these trainers, right? Because only 20% of the population actually uses the work out. Yeah. And so they're they're the same people using trainers, so we're not expanding the market, we're just flooding the market and not actually getting traction.

Yeah. Yeah, 100% agree. And it's uh, you know, every time I have the pleasure of interviewing somebody, this topic comes up quite frequently. It's like, well, you know, let's honestly let's just talk about money. Like, why is it such an awkward thing to talk about? Is it because no one's making any? You know, at the at the personal training level, is that why it's awkward to talk about? Um because it's true. And I, you know, I first thing I I like to address with people I work with too is well, you know, what how much money do you want to make? Right? Let's let's let's engineer, let's reverse engineer this whole thing because um it's okay to have money. It allows you to be the best version of you. There's nothing wrong with that. Right. Give it a to charity, whatever, right? Do whatever you want to reinvest it, give you know, reinvest it in your business, whatever it is you want to do, but it's a weird thing. And I'm guessing it comes from because a lot of people just aren't making a lot of money at the ground level, right? Um, where the where the rubber meets the row, which is a personal trainer. Um out of all the things that you've done, what's your favorite business model that you've worked with in? I mean, you mentioned boot camps, you mentioned you know, franchises, uh, you know, the massage envy, whatever that, whatever that is, right? Yeah. What's been your favorite one to work in?

Um I current I love working with semi-private, you know, just within being able to uh help people, because I can I can train an 88-year-old and a 25-year-old at the same time. And that relationship that everybody has in that group is it's it makes the time go by fast, but it's also rewarding too, right? Um, because able to hit every single person in a one-on-one type of setting, but really become fulfilled with within that group, and I can make more money, right? And they can afford it, and so it's it's a win-win situation for me. Um, and I say that right now because I'm really enjoying like where I'm at, you know. Um and there's been times where it's like stressful, and I think the the boot camp was really awesome at first because it was like um had all these people, but then it became stressful because I felt like I had to scale, you know, and hire other people, and that's what the advice was, and it no longer became became fun, and then I kept losing profit too, right? So it's like I'm putting all this work in, got all this time, but at the end of the day, you get your taxes back, and you're like what? Yeah. 150 pay people paying $299 a month. And um, what?

Yeah, yeah. It's um the simple math is very deceiving. Like you'll see, you know, and this is you know, coming from across our world, we're always we always focus on what was called the bandity metrics. Like, hey, how many members do you have? How big is your gym?

Right?

Yeah, so my money per square foot, right? Right, yeah, and be like, everyone will be like, oh man, you know, and he's got 200 clients and you know, his unlimited memberships, $200 a month. That guy is killing it. And then like, well, well, hold on a second. Yeah, let's talk about my rent, my insurance, all of my softwares, uh, cleaning, um, equipment, all of it, right? And it's all of a sudden those margins get eaten at really fast. And uh, you know, I think that's something that is a hard lesson that maybe I need to learn my lessons on my own. I'm not one who can really read or have someone tell me, like, hey, this is gonna screw you up. I'm like, well, whatever. I'll learn on my own, right? And then it's then I learned. Uh but I think you know, some of the solutions which are interesting about what you're what you're doing with micro franchising is you help people contain those costs. Yeah. Right. Because those that can easily run away on you. Like especially, you know, rent. And that that's something we can into. I'm I I would like to educate a little people because you've done this so many times. Massage Envy was a franchise, is that right?

Yeah, yeah. It was a and then now there's like they're a billion-dollar company right now, is it in revenue or something?

I used to go to them all the time. You know, yeah, it was just so convenient, you know. Yeah, the price point is right, you know. Yeah. So what is a franchise? Like, what is a franchise model?

So a franchise um is a uh give you the business model, give you everything that you need to do in order to open up. Um with Massage Envy, we were like, we knew exactly what the demographics needed to be, what the size of the the facility you needed to be. So you had a real estate part that was like, all right, we're gonna help you to find the right place that you can open. Um, and then here's here's here's the steps that you need to do in order to hire people. Here's a process on how um how to set up your scheduling, how to set up um, you know, everything you need to know about running that business is already done for you. It's proven. We've got a concept that is is proven. Um, and now it's up to you to run it, right? Um, but we are also doing it with the help of everybody else, like the collective, right? So with Massage Envy, they'd have we'd have um advertising co-ops. So you put money into that co-op and you're able to get more exposure, bigger branding, right? Um, so you get more market share that way. Um, and then and then you got the help of corporate. So if anything is going wrong, you can always call them, and it that that's your support, right? Um, as opposed to like going, I think I'm gonna open up a massage studio. I'm a massage therapist. What do I need to do in order to do that? You know, um, and then I have to have a bunch of um, I have to hire people, how do I make sure that they do the massage right, you know, from minute to minute, how do the soap notes go? How do I convert them into members? Right? So everything has a formula in order for you to be in the best, uh put the best success, right? The best business practices. So that's what the franchise is, as opposed to like you know, just a license model where you kind of read everything and then you'd either do it or you don't, right? Right. So um that's that's what the my uh franchise is in in in a whole, right? And it's governed, like the government has their hands on everything. Right? The books are open to know exactly what's going on. It's not like a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

Yeah. And when you say the government, you mean the the the governing body of the franchise.

Yeah, and even just like the federal government.

Okay.

Right? There's uh um our uh currently our our franchise disclosure document goes over everything, and and they they need to know what they're getting into. Right? It's it's not like oh, okay, I'm gonna try to open up a business. It's these are the things that you need to have in order to run the successful business. This is what you're gonna this is what we're bringing to the table, and it's regulated.

Right.

Okay, got it.

And what would be what would be some of the downsides? You know, if I'm thinking, if I'm if I'm somebody listening to this, I'm like, you know, maybe I'm thinking about opening a franchise or opening my own gym facility. Um what's what's the downside of a franchise? What's some of the things that people may need to be aware of if they're looking at, you know, an orange theory or um you know a red line or um you know F-45, Barry's boot camp, all these major franchises. What what's what's maybe because there's, you know, there's getting bad in everything, but what are some of things that maybe they should be aware of going into making a decision like that?

Um I think you have to know what kind of business model you want to be part of. Because it's very it's very targeted, you know. So like our red line brick and mortars, that's kids, eight to eighteen. You know, that's that's your your target market. Orange theory is gonna be that 30 to 25 to 35 type of person. It's kind of like F-45, you know. Um, and so it's it it is super targeted if you don't want to work with that kind of person or that kind of like structure on the workouts, because Orange Theory definitely has their formula on how those workouts are going, you know. Um and in order to make some of those things work, you you you're gonna have churn on employees. Because it it runs on your margins, you know. Um, so you might not be able to pay them as much as you you'd like to. So um that those are the things that I see as that may be downsides, um, but overall, you've got bigger brand awareness, you have more capital to spend on some advertising, you know? Yeah um those kind of things. Like, so fitness together might be one of those that was like great, and then the market changed, right? Fitness together is that one-on-one in a in your own studio, and then everything kind of shifted to group. So now the fitness togethers are like, hmm, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I would imagine too, you know, like having me, I've investigated some franchise opportunities too, and you know, the startup costs can be anywhere between you know 50k to 250k, you know, for some of these, probably over for some of the ones I'm not even thinking about. And you have to have access to capital too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I like I started my first CrossFit affiliate for bootstrapped, right? It was 08, 09. Like no one was lending me money. Nobody that year. Just like laughing at the building. Uh but I think all in all, we got the thing off the ground for 30 to 45k, somewhere in there. I would say closer to 45, right? Okay. Um, but we had no systems, right? I had to go out and you know, invest early eventually invest in you know, some business coaching for that because no one would knew what they were doing. Um looking back, would have I have gone and waited a little bit longer invested in a franchise? I don't know, maybe, right? You know, maybe if if CrossFit had done a franchise model, that would have been interesting. It never would have happened because you know, Glassman's big, big on the free market.

Um and Iron Tribe is like the only one out there that Yeah.

Yeah at the time What's going on with Iron Tribe?

Are they uh is still they're still around.

I mean it's yeah, I think they they hit some because their their demographic was supposed to be that executive. type crossfit feel, make it a little prettier, get the get the uh individual that's you know 45 and create some some um just more exclusivity on theirs I think I I don't know exactly what's going on with it you know um yeah well we can always research it so uh explain to me we've kind of talked about franchising now so what is you guys are starting this whole new category it's so Mike yeah talk to me what's going on man what are you doing so as as opposed to having all have to have all that capital we we wanted to um John's always been one of those guys that's a disruptor and he wants to take every every um business that he's had the joint right which was kind of practical but it made it affordable for people he wanted to take it and make it so that it's affordable to that that trainer that's looking at starting a business so our franchise fees are $1995 $1995 amazing first time startup right now it gives you access to all the materials that you're gonna need in order to open up the the facility your operations manual your your marketing playbooks your all the stuff that you're gonna need in order to get that thing open and he's gonna finance it if you don't have that $1995 up front right that's big for a year so and then your royalties are $199 a month for the first year $249 year two and uh $2993 four or five. Okay. So super low as far as like what you're gonna need investment wise getting into it and it speeds up your ability to get going right because now you don't have to go out and like when you get your CrossFit boxes like how much is how much do I need to spend for rent? How much do I need to spend for equipment how do I how do I put together a schedule how do I get people in the door those kind of things so this is and then what kind of business entity do I need a to create how do I create a business entity is it a partnership is it a sole proprietorship what kind of insurance do I need right all those things what kind of uh point of sale system do I need how all that stuff's already taken care of all you know um and then we've we've teamed up and with a a software that's everything in one it's your website it's your CRM it's which is you know for those that don't know what a CRM is in these days is like your customer relationship management system. How do you communicate with them texting landing pages so that you can create sales funnels right so you don't have to go out and get buy a website do mind body or Zen Planner or one of those and then get click funnels andor whatever all the other things you need. It's all in one space and as corporate we decide to change that it's already done um for the for the end user which when I was coaching people trying to get all those systems to talk to each other I got into this to train people I did not get into it to be a software engineer. Yeah yeah it's a crash course in software engineer that much yeah Zapier how the heck do I get my Zapier to connect to my Google spreadsheet or whatever you're using right so that way it's like a lower barrier of entry with and you just do the math like I don't have to open up my own facility let's leverage all the other opportunities that are out there independent studios all these other 24 hour gyms that don't have training but rent space out to you all these corporate like um office buildings like Regis buildings they have fitness centers in there you know um HOAs there's all kinds of different things that are going on with fitness where you can train people and have low rent get your business up and going and um you don't have to worry about all the other things.

If you want to you've got an equipment package for that you know man this is really this is really really interesting I'm my mind is is because one of the things I really like about this too is um there's so much space out there already to train people right you know it's like the Airbnb model. Yeah right like the space is there it's just not being utilized. Right. So in s in setting even just the intention of people going out there for looking for those opportunities, you know, we can more efficiently use all the resources available. There's so many gyms that are just sitting collecting dust. You know I mean even between like a garage gym right you can do in someone's garage gym. If you want to yeah I mean it's like yeah if it's you know nice enough. Um yeah it's a really fascinating point that I never even thought of until we just started talking about it. That's a huge opportunity. So what is the actual model? Like what how are people training people? You know who are they training? What is the is are the workouts included or is it the programming done by the the owner? What does all that look like?

That's awesome too like so that's already done as well. So you know if as a trainer we like to do our own thing right but like when I remember first starting to train I was like I'm training all my clients the way I train you know some 22 year old meat head at the time right was like I'm gonna put my 45 year old client through that same workout. Well this system is we've got your um warm-up muscle activation and all that stuff all separated out and it all can go into an app where we can scale it so we've got your your exercise that we're looking to your main exercise that we can scale up or down all through that app so that way you can you can train the people the personal training is designed for 35 and above right we've got the boot camp that's going to hit the 25 year olds and you know that middle and up that want a a a larger group option. So we're hitting those two demographics uh and then the other ones that we've got going on the pipe right now are intro to sports and that's the three to eight year old um kids and just getting them moving and then fundraisers and then down the road there's other micro franchises that were in development after these come through right so depending on what kind of business you want to run there's four different options currently right yeah um so yeah utilizing extra space for the intro to kids sports you can use um rec centers you could use different places dance studios that aren't utilized during the day you know or at night whatever the time whatever that may be um gymnastics places so now all those places that aren't don't have revenue we're actually helping them so it's a win win win situation right the personal trainers winning the owner of this the studio um that needs more revenue is creating more revenue from bringing in trainers and exposure you know um and then the client wins because they're getting they're getting an experience with the trainer actually knowing what to do a little bit with them yeah yeah that's proven you know it's scientifically you know it's it's a solid program if the trainer wants to deviate from that that's fine but you know we have the the screening through fusionetics you know that's another another thing that's so the the the programming is a major right yeah you need to have that as well so it's a little bit more um you've got your soft tissue stuff that we've got to do it's it's all designed to help the end user and that all like that's all included in the ongoing royalties yes awesome what about marketing how are you how are you helping people put you know heads in the beds is that up to them or how how does that how does that work? Um yeah so we're we're giving them a marketing playbook which they can be implemented right away you know the six week challenges the 21 day challenges all that stuff is already there we've got um all the things that you're you that people need to use and create you know um lead magnets that kind of stuff how do you use it though first of all they had to create it themselves if you're you're doing it independently now it's already created for you now you just need to drive traffic to it and how do I do it well here's here's what we're saying here's the copy here's your landing page here's your opt-ins and then leading them through that whole fun so our our whole thing is build it market it you know sell them train them retain them multiply them and then analyze it awesome so each one of those buckets has yeah how how how is it going so far like how many of these have you guys sold or implemented what what's it looking like when did this start by the way uh we we started um looking at it I started talking to John in October last year and we rolled all we we developed it and started marketing it April 1st so you know we've got people in the pipeline that's the other thing with franchises there's a 14 day cooling off period right like we give you all the information you got 14 days to make a decision on what you want them to do. So we're in the currently like in the pipeline getting people through there um but I have no doubt that what we've created is going to revolutionize what personal trainers are doing. You know?

Yeah yeah I like it and you know ultimately why people get into a lot of people get into the fitness profession because they really like working with people they like helping people right they like doing the coaching standpoint but you start a you start a business and you uh very quickly learn that okay now you're not really you're still a fitness professional but now you're actually a business person and you're gonna have to do all the businessy things whether you like the businessy things or not because no one else is going to do it for you. So now you're gonna learn all that stuff right and this this takes a lot of that off the plate allows people to do what they really want to do which is ultimately I mean if you put someone into a kind of a dream situation is they just get to train people um they get to be at the top of their own pyramid right as small as that pyramid may be right um they're a boss and uh and then ideally they they should learn how to everyone should learn how to market and sell. That's just like I don't care who you are within the industry. I don't care who you are at all like marketing and selling you you gotta learn those those skills because it's gonna be a a deciding factor in your success. So it's really cool and and you know looking at the industry overall nowadays and what's cool about where we're going is the traditional model is like okay you get your trainer certification you train people right you do that for a certain amount of time and then you're like well okay well what's next well maybe I'll do some group training right that can increase my hourly rate uh or my take home uh but then after that they're like well I don't know I don't know what I'm gonna do so and they're like well maybe I should open a facility right that's kind of the next thing and that that's been the progression for quite some time nowadays people have different options you know there's there's micro franchising now right there's the online world right there's information products there's all kinds of stuff which is very quickly getting uh well it's crowded but the thing about it is you mentioned 20% of the people only you know really go to gyms right on a global scale that's 1% so there's 99% of the people we can still reach out there and I think microfranching is another way to to get more people out there going after that 99% or 80% depending on where you are in the world. So I I it's it's an interesting thing to to see this evolve.

Yeah and then we're at uh to take it back like we're actually in talks with ISSA okay to to partner up with them to create and then and that would be ideally that would be the way we we run in the future is like here's your certification here's your business in a box too yeah yeah interesting it's kind of like the doctors right you go and you get your medical degree and then they want to and then they have to um they have to hire their whole staff they have to manage that staff it's it's the emyth yeah right you've read that book everybody that's a that should be like one of the three books that they read you know um but that's that's what it is and so as opposed to having to try to create all those systems that he talks about in the emyth it's already done you know now you can focus on being a technician which you got into the business to do in the first place. Right.

Yeah yeah that's a great analogy I mean we're if all things go on track and I'm sure you guys have a very clear vision of of the growth for this right um I don't know you can pick a time frame you know five years ten years two years but what what do you what's a time frame that you're looking at and where do you see the expectations of of Red Line Express going?

We're super conservative on those numbers right so as a as the corporate we're looking at like 200 people you're one with all those franchises all the four of them right right um and the goal would be in five years to have two three thousand of these people practicing right we have 40 we'll have 40 brick and mortar locations by the end of this year but it also that's the other thing too that I I didn't even really mention you talked about that progression I'm like hey I'm got I'm gonna do a training then I'm gonna open a facility well we're already in an ecosystem where it's you've got the formula to open up that next space so this is like a midway point or a stepping stone towards facility ownership if that's the direction people want to go.

If that's the way you want to go and they're like eh no I'm good right I'll let somebody else run a facility I'll just work within the system right yeah right so there's all those options but now you at least have like the support and a proven model that would work yeah it's interesting man um yeah and then more brand awareness and then it just it starts to create you know how it is like you it takes three months for your marketing efforts to to come through yeah 90 day rule sure yeah it's so true um all the work you do right now for your marketing will pay off in 90 days yeah I I I didn't believe it until I now I believe it it's it's actually a law in my mind. You know I I'm curious too you know you guys you mentioned chiropractic you've done massage why are you storing this model in fitness fitness yeah well it's it's been something that like um you hit you you talked with Nicole Spencer about you know this a couple weeks ago on uh on her thing she and I had talked about it when we were yeah coming like the biggest struggle that I found being a business coach was all the things that we we give them the systems but then the implementation of those systems was where it kind of fell short. Yes because it's that I'm not perfect enough you know I don't really know how to do it you know every excuse I'd rather I'd rather uh scrub a toilet you know so we had talked about something like that and so she came up with authentic you know uh conversions or conversations right that she's doing with hers um and and I just I was like man this this business model that I'm doing right now it's fulfilling make great money I get to spend time with my kids I'm not stressed you know uh and some of the people that I was coaching that were the most successful and made the most amount of money were independent contractors so when John came to me with this whole idea I was like I've been thinking about this for a long time he has the knowledge with the the um franchising has been successful with it this this this guy this is gonna be brilliant you know this is brilliant it's all those resources put together it it you nailed such a good point you know is that a lot of I I've talked to and work with a lot of facility owners as well I mean a lot and uh you know the implementation is the hardest thing and generally you know what you need to do for most people as they start a business manager starting to clear it out time on their schedule to do the things that they need to do to go from technician to entrepreneur right and it's clearing out that time is so challenging for them because it you know uh they they don't sometimes they don't see it yet right and that's why many of them want just they're like whatever just give me a done for you model right give me a done for me model where I can just you know hand it off to somebody like okay great well that's gonna cost you three grand a month they're like what so uh well yeah that's what done for you models cost that's why I'm telling you we need to do it yeah and you will do it it's just gonna take a bit of time depending on how much time you put aside to make and how bad you want it. So that that's an interesting thing too is you know is the desire for the done for you but they can't afford it. You guys are also addressing that that problem.

Yeah yeah I want it done for me but I can't afford it right that's it yeah um and and so yeah it's it it and that I I'd rather do the toilets or scrub the floor than make a phone call.

Right you know I I or the marketing stuff is so like sexy that I'd love to learn how to run you know all these fancy like um opt-ins and squeeze pages and email like whatever as opposed to like hey why don't you just call some people go network do a public speaking gig you know and hire somebody that that already knows that that space to do it as opposed to like sitting behind your desk trying to get leads in the door how about nurture the nurture the leads like I don't know if you found that but like everybody's like enthralled with by becoming a marketer man I could tee off on this one for a while because it's uh you know just the other day yesterday I was talking to a gym owner and by all by all standards you know he has successful numbers right um you know 700,000 in annual revenue three to four hundred clients um but you know and they're now they hired this lead generation I'm like why do you need a lead generation company that just does purely lead generation and I started digging into him like well he's like yeah we get you know 100 leads per week I'm like why do you need any more like what's going on? He's and they had no there's no nurturing there is no sales process there's no follow up I'm like okay so out of those hundred let's say you convert 10 and you're doing really good right what's going on with those other nine those other 90 that you're getting every week he's like well nothing. Like oh my God you know hand hand a forehead right I'm like well that's that's that's your million dollar business right there. That's the extra 300,000 easy if you put in the system to do it, but that's not sexy. Right. That's not fun. That's not like lead generation is almost intoxicating, right? To see leads coming in. Like it literally is like cocaine. Like you're like, oh yes, leads, like my blow up, right? This is so I don't need to do anything else. This solves all my problems. Yeah. Not that true. Because any anytime you start doing that type of lead generation, you're eventually going to scrape the market. It's going to become ineffective because that's the nature of that thing, right? That's why six-week boot camps, which I've done my share of, or six-week challenges, work for a while, and then you got to let them rest. And then you get to do it again. You can't do them all the time. It's not a strategy, it's a tactic. And tactics burn out and they change. So I yeah, I don't know how we got on this, but I'm very passionate about that because I think the follow-up system, do you guys address that as well?

Like, how do we build in the We've got that whole nurture sequence in there? Like, you know, so that we've got it like from when they opt in to the whole sales process, to then making sure that we retain them. Because like that's if you're not retaining your clients, then all those people are just walking out the door. Yes. And you're not helping anybody. Um, so you know that to me, like that's why I've been successful in just be able to just pick up a phone and call people. Yeah. Not even text them, just call them for goodness sakes. Like that thing actually works, you know? Right. Right. And just show that you care, even the people that you aren't training anymore. I was talking to uh a guy that I'd worked with forever, and he's like, Mark, I man, I'm getting killed right now. Uh I need some clients. I'm like, okay, great. Um, you've been training in this valley for like how long? 15 years? He's like, yeah. I was like, how many people are you training? It's like hundreds. I was like, when's the last time you called or texted any of them? Eh, I don't say, okay, when you get home, text three of them. So then, and he's like, eh, okay, great. So we get done. I text him. How many people did you text? Nobody. I'm sitting on the toilet. Like, and you can't text them from the toilet? Like, best time to text people. That's best time to text, right? Like, but what are you doing? You're wasting your time. So I said, Text me back after you've texted three people. Yeah. Text one. That person came in and bought sessions again the same day. I kept following up with him that week he signed up three people. I kept following up, like, hey, what's what's going on? Oh, I quit. I quit. I quit. I was like, he said, I need to do a different persona on Facebook. Like, no. What you did was working, right? Like, why stop? Hey, it goes back to like when I was doing the boot camp, we were doing things on uh save those clip clipper coupons, you know, and that crushed it for a long time. Then MySpace, then Facebook, right? And then now it's Instagram. Then, you know, who knows what the next thing is. But the thing that always works is networking. Yes.

Yes. If you can figure out a way to build a network that generates referrals continuously, you will be set for life.

Yeah, all those other things are just extra they're gravy, right? Yeah. That you can put on autopilot when they stop working, you just you just go to the next, you know? Yeah. But so anyway, that's that's my rant on that too.

It's great, and it's so interesting to me too, because everyone who has been in the industry for a while who doesn't make their money off of lead generation, right? Uh, they all say the same thing. They're like, no, you just, you know, you gotta focus on relationships, you gotta build a network, um, you know, you can do some social media. Uh, that's you know, the that's the cherry on top. Um obviously. And and for some people, you know, I I look at like um from Nicole Spencer because she came up and her systems for for business coaching, she's built a business on an email list of 30 people and being on Facebook Live every day. So yeah, I mean, if you're willing to commit to that, right? Facebook Live every day.

And some people don't show up, right? But you gotta do it every day.

You gotta do it every day. And that's and I think anything that you find that works, you gotta commit to it every day, right? You know, just something you you find what works for you and you go for it. But you know, getting back to you know, lead generation thing is oftentimes if people say, Hey, I need lead generation, my gym needs more leads, it's just a it's a symptom. They're sprinkling lead generation on top of something that's a bigger issue that maybe they don't want to address because it's uncomfortable, right? Retention is uncomfortable. Why are people leaving me? Ah, I really got to take a good look. Why, what is going on? Why are people leaving me? In my experience from Gym Ownership Days was that as soon as I focused heavily on lead generation, my retention would drop. Because you're you're sending a message out there to the world. I'm more interested in attending new clients than taking care of the ones I have. And I actually have members sit me down and be like, I don't know, Eric. It's kind of seems like we're about to leave and buff you for five years, but it kind of seems like you're not interested in your current clients anymore. I was like, ooh, ouch. Thank you for telling me. I'm gonna go sit on a rock somewhere and forget this. Uh, but it's it's an interesting thing. And uh anyway, we could go off that for a while.

Um this is top of mind because I was doing the testimonials yesterday, videos, and yeah, all those people that I've been with like 10, 12 years, I'd rather their family, right? Yeah, and if they say that stuff to me, I'm like, oh wow, that's that's just you know, even people that don't train with me, I'm still contact them, see how they're doing. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's it's that whole theory of well, not theory, it's just a practical application. Would you rather go out and find one client that you can have for life or 10 clients that may stick around, you know, after six months? You know, I I know you know it's very it's it's a difficult thing to to tell people in the first game because it's hard. It's like, hey, well, I need money, I need capital, I need to pay the rent, I need to do all these things. And yeah, it's it's hard starting a business. It's just a challenge, it's not for everybody. And if you don't have the constitution or maybe that backup plan, you know, maybe some money in the bank or whatever it is, you know, something you can fall back on if plans don't go exactly the way you want them to. Right. But to tell somebody to be like, hey, okay, you're gonna start now, and in 10 years you'll be successful because you'll do all the things necessary to build something sustainable. People be like, what? Get out of here. You know? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to get lead gen, and then I'm just gonna like do a half-ass job with them.

Right.

And it's just gonna perpetually be the same thing. So, you know, I think really what we've we've focused on bringing it back is like, yeah, this we we've got the tactics, but then the strategy is to keep them long term, right? Like we're focusing heavily on like this sales process, but that nurture process through that sales process so that you can keep that person for a long period of time. Awesome. And have those touches, that's built into how you should build a business, but that should be like, and and for me, I limit my clients personally to 35 people just because like it fits what I need to make and gives me time to like actually service them, and I can do other projects too at the same time. So, you know, it's not taking up all of my energy and my, you know, and and and still have that time to re refocus and and re-energize and spend time with the family, you know. Yeah.

That that's an incredibly powerful thing, too, is you know, um decide on how many clients you want to work with, right? How and we talk about this reverse engineering, how much money do you want to make? How many clients do you want to work with? How much do you need to charge per client to do that? And then if you're feeling like, well, I don't have that value, then concentrate on creating that amount of value, right? For the clients, whether from your experience or the client experience or the niche that you're working with, and then find the ideal clients and settle for nothing else. And that is something that you can get to where you are now, right? Over time of, you know, I work with my favorite people. Uh, they pay me what I feel my value is, and I have my business serves me. And I think that that's a really strong message for people to hear is like take that time and really vision out what you want it to look like. And people like, well, I I don't I I'm not at the point where I can charge 150 an hour for personal training. Okay, well, start figuring it out where you can get that value so you can ask for $150 confidently. And you'll get there.

And if you don't want to, if you don't want to ask for $150, get four people that'll pay you $150 an hour.

Yeah, there you go.

At the same time, right? Right? Uh yeah, it's like, but then and and I think we've grown up in this fast food, I need everything right away. Sure. And we can talk about like internet too, like everything's immediate. So if you're if you're just getting into the business, it's like, well, the ad said that I could make X amount of dollars, which is true. But you have to do the work yourself personally, and you have to give it time to get good. Because like that that first part of the story, like, I almost got fired from my first job at 24-hour fitness, right? I couldn't sell anything, and I sucked as a trainer every day. I was going to my fitness manager, like, how do I deal with this? Like, then the sales manager, how do I sell that? You know, but I knew enough that like, and I was paying for my groceries on credit cards. Oh wow. You know? Yeah. So you have to stick to it and learn. I think that's that's if that's a takeaway from everybody. It's like I I just didn't 20 years later go, oh yeah, I got 35 clients. And it it was a learning and then applying. And you know, yeah.

Some of the most assured the most assured path to success. Failure? Failure and not giving up. Yep.

That's it.

Yeah.

Just don't give up. Failure.

Don't give up. Yeah. And and and learning, fail fast, fail often. Fail cheap if you can't. Yep, fail cheap, yeah.

Yeah. I know that one too. Well, Mark, uh, man, we I'm sure we could go on and on and on. Um where do people find you personally? Where do people find out about Red Line Express and microfranchising?

Oh, yeah, great, great questions. Thanks. Um, they they can find me at uh uh just on my personal Mark Norton Facebook page or or Fit Living365 on Facebook. Um with the Red Line, uh, you could go to um it's redline athleticsfranchise.com. Um and then it's and just hit on the express um tab at the top, and then you know, go with uh personal training and uh all that, that'll get to me, or mark at express. Um uh express what what is that again? I've got so many darn emails, man. Um I've got that and then my own personal and everything else. Uh it's markexpressredline.com is what it is. So and that's an X, not an EX. Yeah, it's express dot expressredline.com.

So well, Mark, man, thank you for coming on. It's really interesting what you guys are doing. I'm excited to see how this uh this whole thing grows. I mean, the concept is sounds amazing. And you guys really identified something that you know can help help solve some problems. So keep up the great work, man. Thanks for coming on. All right, thanks for having me here. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, Mark Norton. Hi. Hey fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask. Actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I ask you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us. It's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel, our fitness marketing alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge, that's a big deal for us. And we're we put a lot of work into these episodes uh trying to give you great actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at FitnessMarketingAlliance.com