Juliet Starrett & Alex Alimanestianu - Industry Deep Dive: Planet Fitness, Xponential, Life Time, Fuzzy Panda, Semaglutide, & "Built To Move"

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Hyperite, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases the product you already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business with store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-ut.com. Just one-o. W-r-k-o-ut- go get it. All right, we are live. Juliet and Alex, welcome back to the Future of Fitness Podcast and our very special first edition of the Industry Roundtable. I'm uh I've been looking forward to this for months. I think, you know, we've had a scheduling challenges as it happens when you get three people who are, you know, fairly busy. But it's really exciting what we're doing here. And I uh, you know, I won't do introductions. I think people either go back to past episodes where I've had you guys on, or they could just Google your names. There's plenty of stuff to find out about you guys out there. Um I think the most useful time, useful use of our time, if I even say that correctly, is getting into the topics that we have here. And uh I think the vision, at least, and you guys can expand on it, of why we're doing this, is I want to get past the headlines, you know, take a deeper dive into what is actually going on. I think we take headlines way too seriously, and they're they're there to just do one thing is grab our attention, right? Get an emotional uh trigger out of us, and then then we move on to the next emotional trigger. But we we we need to spend some time kind of looking into the actual data and the research and the insights of all these topics. So stuff we're gonna cover today, hopefully if we get all to it, because there's so much to talk about, um, is some earning reports that recently came out, uh, Planet Fitness, Lifetime, Exponential, Publicly Held Companies. We'll get there, we'll talk about the uh infamous, uh now infamous Fuzzy Panda report on exponential. We're gonna talk about semiglutide and all of its brand names, uh, Ozempik, Wagovi, uh, Mongioro, Rebelsis. I'm not even sure if I'm saying that correctly, and uh what that means for the industry, what that means for humanity, and uh some of the legal possibilities that that could happen there. Uh Juliet Esquire. And uh finally we'll talk about the Born uh Build to Move book. Uh that was I've read now cover to cover, which was excellent. So I'm gonna stop talking. We're gonna dive into the first topic, but uh let's talk about some earnings reports, Alex. What do you got?

Yeah, so over the past uh three weeks, we've had uh Lifetime, Planet, and Exponential uh all release their second quarter earnings. Um and uh my headline would be uh these companies have rebounded and performed post-COVID uh better than I think people expected. And and uh they continue to uh to grow same store sales, they're growing their club counts, they're growing revenue, they're growing profitability. Um and uh and yet Wall Street seems to be cautious um and and a little underwhelmed by uh I guess what the future holds for them. And and that's a little mystifying to me. Um but you know, just to touch on a few things that people are are concerned about, uh Planet is growing a little less uh on the unit side than uh they had uh projected for the year. Uh, and they're talking about that being mainly related to construction costs, just really high construction costs that are that are slowing down the investments by by their franchisees. Um mainly, I think, the big private equity owners who rely mostly on debt and you know, with the cost of debt going up. Um it just it's just, I guess from their perspective, not a good time to to grow as quickly as they had uh they had planned. Um so that seems like a temporary issue to me, not a not a long-term one. Um I think you know, lifetime is is a bit mystifying there. Their stocks down 24% since they released their earnings, and their earnings were were good. They um they're gonna do more than 500 million of Ibata this year. I mean, that's just that's a record for them. It's a staggering number. And um, and yet Wall Street is sort of like, okay, that's there's something we don't like. And and you know, Wall Street's not always right, so maybe it is an opportunity to look at that. I don't own any of these stocks, by the way, individually. So I'm not uh I I have no conflict here whatsoever. Um but uh you know the issue with lifetime is always that um they they spend a huge amount of capital so to to grow just because they're building you know 100 plus thousand square foot locations, um, they're spending 500 million a year in in CapEx. So they might make 500 of IBITA, but they're you know their free cash flow is is is limited because they're spending that much on new units, plus they're they're having to maintain 150 or 160 existing units, which is millions and millions of square feet of real estate and and maintenance capex. Um so I guess in a high interest rate environment, you know, Wall Street's like uh it's too, we don't want to be in capital-intensive businesses. So I guess you know, there are explanations. Um you know, I think uh uh exponential has recovered um somewhat from the mauling uh by the fuzzy panda. I don't I don't know much about fuzzy panda. I like I think the name's kind of amusing. Um I I I don't really know where they're based or or uh who they are. They're they're other than that they're a short seller. So what they do is they um they look for companies where they think there is uh some uh nefarious activities going on. Uh could you know, you think of Enron as the Enron was the biggest poster child for, you know, just just the the you know the short-selling um uh uh playbook. Um and it turned out Enron was a house of cards. So, you know, it and and it happens, I mean, these these there are plenty of companies out there uh that are cooking the books and doing, you know, that are fraudulent and and and and that are public and that seem to be legitimate companies. That that um so anyway, that's what the short sellers do. Uh they dig in, they do a lot of research, um, and try to find accounting issues, which you know they they sometimes do. I think what they're saying about exponential is for example, um that you know, exponential claims they've never closed a club, uh a studio, uh, or that their franchisees have never closed one. What happens is when the franchisees starts to uh talk to the uh you know the franchisor about potentially closing because they can't make the business work, uh, the franchisor steps in and takes over the business, and then it becomes a corporate, uh, what they call a transition uh studio. And so my sense is exponential uh you know doesn't consider those a closed unit. And fuzzy panda's saying, well, those those are failed units. You bought them for you know a song or whatever, uh, pennies on the on the dollar, and and the you know, they're failed businesses. So to say that you've never closed a club, that's sort of true, but uh, but you're kind of playing fast and loose with that language. Um so uh but you know, Exponential talked a lot about that on their call. They're they're saying uh you know they they're not going to hold uh or or take over any more of these clubs in the future. Um and so I think they're they're responding to to what you know what the report said in in that respect. Um and uh uh you know the some of the other allegations are around um uh you know, sort of a the the the the theory that, or not the theory, but the belief that uh even though Exponential has 10 or 11 brands, they really only have three or four that are really successful, and the rest are kind of flailing. Um and since Exponential doesn't break out performance by specific brand, by modality, um, you know, Fuzzy Panda says they're basically hiding the fact that that it's a very portfolio that is uh you know performing because Pure Bar performs and Club Pilates performs and stretch lab, but but most of the most of the brands don't. Um so I think what Exponential's gonna do, and they have an analyst an analyst day coming up in September, um they're going to uh break down performance uh more by brand because historically they haven't done that. They've just said the overall portfolio performs at this level, but we're not talking about specific brands. Um so I think they're you know they're gonna address that. Um and the stock is you know bouncing back a bit. It's up at 21 now, it was down at 16. Um, you know, the high for the year is around in the mid in the low 30s, so it's still down significantly from there. But um, but I think they're they're you know, they're addressing the issues and in a sort of um professional and emotional way. And and uh um, you know, hopefully they uh they recover, which you know they seem to be doing. So that's uh that's the fuzzy panda uh tale.

And Juliet, you had some interesting thoughts too on uh planet fitness, right? And I know we all we all read the reports that you sent out, Alex, this week, so thanks for helping us prep for that. But uh, you know, what what are what are some of your your takes on that?

Sure. And and I'll just start by saying that, you know, in the pre-roll, Alex said, you know, something to the effect of like, you know, as an industry, we should all be rooting for these these companies. And I couldn't agree more. Um and I think you know, that dovetails into my thoughts on Planet Fitness. You know, I I will say as a you know, almost 20-year CrossFit gym owner and someone who decidedly was in, you know, sort of left a Globo gym to begin a boutique fitness uh company, you know, I I definitely was part of part of the a group of people who would uh would bash Globo gyms. And, you know, I think I said earlier that I've never related personally to Planet Fitness at all, you know, even just the purple branding and you know, some of some of their general vibe has never spoken to me in any way. And it's it's always been a place that I would never consider being a member. And so I have to say that my mind was blown um reading more about the history of the company and the earnings report. And I have to say I've totally 180 on it. And I'm I'm now a Planet Fitness fan because, you know, I didn't, I don't think I really understood the history at all. And that the, you know, original vision of the company was to try to make uh, you know, specifically strength training more accessible to people who had never been exposed to it and who wouldn't otherwise relate to other modalities like CrossFit or Gold Gym or some of the gyms that generally were unrelatable, especially to women in particular. Uh so I have to say that, you know, their business model blew my mind. The fact that they've been able to keep it at $10 a month. Um, you know, and and you know, my my own interests of late have been really focused on how do we sort of expand fitness beyond, you know, fitness enthusiasts. And so, man, Planet Fitness fits perfectly into that, you know, sort of schema that I'm into at this point in my life. You know, again, I don't know that I, you know, I'm gonna become a member of Planet Fitness anytime soon, but I super respect a model that is affordable, that you know, is relatable to people who don't otherwise relate to fitness and particularly strength training. And then, you know, just for the three companies overall, I have to say that I was just really excited to see them all, you know, individually doing so well. And I think, you know, to the extent that these we can consider these, you know, these three public companies of bellwether for how the industry is doing generally, like I was very excited to see this because, you know, if I I assume that means, you know, even in in sort of my universe, the CrossFit gym universe, I assume that means that, you know, generally gyms are doing well. I think it shows that people are excited to go back and interact with other humans and connect with community. The other thing I thought was super interesting was that Lifetime in particular, but um, obviously not Planet Fitness, but Lifetime has been steadily raising their prices and people are still coming. And I thought that was a really interesting development as well. Because, you know, in the CrossFit gym world for years, you know, when we when we closed our gym at in San Francisco, we were charging almost $300 a month. You know, and in the early 2000s, even when CrossFit gyms were $150 a month, people were shocked, right? Because we'd all come from the global gym model where like at the most it was $85 a month to belong to a gym, and people were gobsmacked by these boutique studios charging $25 for a drop-in and two, $300 a month. And so to see that that trend is continuing and that the consumers actually are willing to pay more for monthly memberships and to be able to have all these features, I thought was was also a really positive development. Um, and you know, I think my guess is in some sectors, the hybrid model will be here to say. And and I I mean for people like us who are and probably many people listening who are fitness enthusiasts, we all may continue to follow a more hybrid model because we can relate to and have home gyms and have access to outdoor activities. But, you know, I wonder if for the general public, you know, they're all gonna, you know, maybe throw away their, you know, indoor bikes and just commit fully to being gym people. So I I was really excited to see these reports. I feel like it says a lot of positive things about where the industry is going and and sort of our resilience and ability to recover from the you know smackdown that was the pandemic.

Uh let me just jump in for one sec. The you know, one thing that's happened and that Planet Fitness talks about is about 25% of the industry went away uh, you know, during COVID. So so part of what we're seeing is, you know, the strong getting stronger and taking, you know, market share from the guys uh basically went out of business. So there's that sort of post-COVID uh uh repercussion or or bounce that they're benefiting from. Um and you know, whether that's good or bad in the long run, I mean, I you do want to see uh you know success at all at all levels, at the mom and pop level, the mid-level, the you know, the big level. Um, we don't want everyone, you know, the global gyms to eat up uh the whole industry. But I don't think we're at a point where that's really a concern.

Yeah. And the other thing I'll just say um before we move on is one statistic I mentioned earlier in the pre-roll that I was specifically very excited about is seeing that there's this big uptick in women being interested in strength training in particular, and that there's data to show that that is a trend. And man, um, I also was like, you know, you know, doing a little fist bumping in the air as I was reading that because that, you know, I suspected that was true. Um, but sometimes I worry I'm in my own CrossFit bubble where women lift weights and it's common and and not sure that that was that was starting to sort of trickle out into the broader community. I was very excited to see that piece of data.

I I'd love to see that growth in in strength training among older adults as well. I think that's a critical, you know, area that we need to we need to focus on as an industry.

Agreed. Agreed.

I agree. And uh it's something what you pointed out about uh especially women in strength training, Juliet. I I've seen it, it's talked about on this podcast numerous times, and I've seen it anecdotally in my gym that I go to, which is like the one gym in Whitefish that everybody goes to. I mean, I I love it because I love and hate it. I hate because I can't get a squat rack anymore when I want one, but I love to see that everybody's engaged in doing strength training and legitimate, like legitimate strength training. We're talking about like squatting and deadlifting and you know, um, all those core movements. So it's really exciting. I think you know, sum everything up on this before we move on is that um Julia touched on, Alex touched on is like we should be as an industry cheering for these these companies. And I think there's a a kind of bad habit, right? Of like um seeing something like a Peloton sink and everyone's like, yeah, yeah, like no, no, no, that's not okay, that's not good for us overall as an industry. And what I really enjoy, and I think it was maybe your husband and I talked about this, Julia, is like the democratization of better health and fitness. Like, how do we get this disseminated to more people? And outside of just people in our vertical who are getting you know fitter and healthier, like you know, people who have all the wearables and all the technology and all the equipment, right? Like, no, we need to get this out to to everybody else because that's that's where the most good can be can be had. So um really great insights, you guys. Okay, so let's let's move on to to topic number two. Uh semaglutide and all of its brand names, right? Um wow, like the miracle drug, right? Is this uh like what is it? Like what does it mean for the industry? What does it mean for the food industry? What does it mean for everything that we know? I mean, it's I'll have to admit, and I'll just, you know, my personal opinion is I first heard it, I'm like, um, no way, right? Like, there's no magic pill for this stuff. This is gonna be terrible. There's gonna be horrible side effects, like everything's gonna be terrible. And I'm starting to see more stuff come out. I'm like, well, maybe this is promising. You know, maybe if it's you know affecting um, you know, addiction. And um, you know, I think they just had a study came out about heart attacks and strokes reduced by 20%. Uh, you know, all these claims, right? Um, but I think there's a part of the fitness industry where we're like, well, it shouldn't be that easy. We don't want it to be that easy, right? It's it's just goes against our our nature. We're we're like, no, you got to be consistent with show up to the gym and you know, nail your nutrition and do all these things, right? So it's it's a fascinating topic. I'm gonna let Juliet, why don't you start on this? Because you have a legal background, um, which probably provides some really good insights and into what's going on here. So paint the picture for us.

Sure. I mean, I think I'm exactly where you are, Eric, and probably most of us in this industry, like I am on any given day, like, yes, this is a miracle and gonna change everything for the positive. And then the next day I wake up and I feel a sense of horror and dread that, you know, um, uh, you know, impending doom. Um, you know, on the positive side, you know, and I agree with you. When I first heard about this, I was like, no way, there's that this is not gonna change the industry. You know, on the positive side, you know, I do think, you know, the the data showing that 70% of Americans are overweight or obese. You know, when we were kids or when I was a kid in the 70s, we had a one in 4,000 chance of becoming diabetic. And now it's a one in four chance of becoming diabetic. And that's, by the way, that's apart from socioeconomic level. So, you know, it's it's not it's not just hitting poor communities only, it's hitting everybody. And, you know, it we could go into the cost of of all of this ill health um in in in probably a podcast episode on its own. But, you know, so I do think we, you know, we aren't doing well. And man, if there is a a drug that people can take that curbs their appetite and really does make a difference in the in some of these metrics, and you know, I mean, I we just had Dan Butner on our podcast, who is the author of The Blue Zones, and he was working with uh Fort Worth, Texas, and they they reduced uh some of the Work they did caused a 1% reduction in BMI in the residents of Fort Worth, Texas. And that was something like a $900 billion reduction in healthcare costs or something. I mean, so, so what I'm what I think, you know, I learned from that is that these, you know, moving the lever just a tiny bit in terms of people's health is going to make a huge impact. And, you know, you mentioned it briefly in the beginning, but you know, there was just a study that came out that, you know, people taking these drugs have a 20% reduced risk of cardiovascular disease. So that's a gigantic positive. You know, you mentioned that people are seeing it's reducing their overall hunger, you know, things like addiction, drug abuse. I mean, you know, there's potentially huge positive impacts to this. Um, and then because, you know, I this is how my brain works. I also had to go, I had to do a deep dive on the legal side and sort of some of the cons. You know, one of the biggest cons I see, again, because we were talking earlier when we were, you know, discussing Planet Fitness, is, you know, my own mission in in life now is to try to figure out how to make things more accessible. And just the cost alone at this point is is prohibitive. I mean, it's between $800 and $1,000 a month. That's $12,000 a year. You know, I think we could talk um after I finish my little segment here about, you know, how insurers are starting to open up to the possibility of covering this. And, you know, if Medicaid covers it, it's going to be a whole different ballgame for people. But, you know, at this moment, it's really, you know, it's really not accessible for the vast majority of people. And um, but one thing that, you know, I think does cause me to lose a little bit of sleep is in my prior life as a drug and medical device product liability attorney, I actually worked on a couple of fen fen cases uh early on in my legal career, right when I started working as an attorney. And, you know, for people listening to this, the, you know, American history of weight loss drugs goes all the way back to something like World War I, when we first developed a weight loss drug in World War I. And, you know, almost every 10 years, the pharmaceutical industry has produced a you know, miracle weight loss drug. Um, and in every one of those cases, it has been pulled from the market after a certain amount of time because people were getting sick or dying. You know, we started off with a drug in like 1914, pulled from the market. Um, you know, in the 40s, 50s, 60s, we had all the amphetamine-based weight loss drugs. That obviously didn't work out. And then, you know, the crown jewel was fenfen. And for those people who don't know, it came out in the late 80s and caused a lot of people to have heart valve failures and in many cases actually died. Um, and those were some of the cases that I worked on early on in my legal career. And fenfen was the reason why uh insurance companies stopped covering weight loss drugs under insurance. It was, you know, fenfen was kind of the final straw after all of the amphetamines. And so this is what the industry is facing now. They're they're they're you know, they're facing this long and not good legal history of weight loss drugs coming onto the market, seeming like they're going to be a miracle pill. And then, you know, after some long-term, you know, data comes in, it it they're often harming people. So what I think is interesting, and I think often people don't realize, is you know, just because the FDA has approved a drug doesn't necessarily mean the people who are currently taking it aren't human guinea pigs. I mean, that's what I learned as a drug and medical device attorney. There are obviously a lot of rigorous studies and trials that have to be done to get any drug approved. But, you know, the real test is the first five to 10 years of a drug on the market. You know, how does it actually work and what are the long-term impacts? And then the final thing I'll say is, you know, it appears at this point that that people who take this drug need to be on it forever. The the initial data coming out is that, you know, people take it, it reduces their appetite, their hunger, maybe even their interest in drugs and alcohol. But then pretty much once they stop taking it, those things start back up and they're gaining back all the weight. So I mean, just from a cost perspective alone, you know, it would be one thing if we all said, okay, I'm gonna invest $6,000, six months, I'm gonna lose 20 pounds and then I'm good to go for the rest of my life. But I think, you know, I'm very concerned, sort of on a variety of levels, about the idea that, you know, this may be a drug you have to be on for the rest of your life. And we don't really have any idea what the long-term effects are. There's a lot. There's a lot here.

Bringing it, bringing it uh into focus for the fitness industry and just assuming that uh that that the drug continues to perform uh at at the you know as it has um recently, um, and that people keep using it and that the long-term health effects are not are not uh negative. Um it looks like there is uh the you know, is it a positive or is it a negative for the fitness industry? I guess that's for public health, uh there's no question it's it's great. Um if it performs like we think it's it, like we hope it will. Um but what about for the fitness industry? And and it was interesting on the lifetime call, an analyst did ask Brahm um, you know, what what his his uh uh opinion was about the this incredible hype around um you know these GLP ones. Um and he was a little defensive. He sort of I my sense was he was like, well, that's not gonna, you know, it's not gonna hurt us. It's not gonna hurt us. Um because we're not about weight loss. We're about, you know, overall health and and wellness and and community and fitness. Um and I thought that was not the right reaction. I I to me it's what is the opportunity once you have millions of people who are, you know, at a BMI that is is reasonable, um, who never would have wanted to go to the gym or to Barry's or to you know the studios, um, all of a sudden they're feeling confident about their health um and and their the way they look and the way they um, you know, what they can do. So isn't doesn't that expand the pie? Doesn't that expand the the addressable market? Um and it's interesting. I think Paul Byrne is working on, I know he is, on a on a study around, you know, sort of predic a prediction for what these GLP ones mean for the for the industry. And that that's gonna come out um I think in the next couple of months. So that that'll be interesting. But but I do think it's an opportunity and um and uh I'd like to see the fitness industry embrace it.

You know, I I would add too, I mean, I agree, I think it's gonna have a huge impact, but I also agree it, you know, assuming that you know the long-term impacts aren't negative of the drug and you know, and the and the costs come down and it becomes more accessible. Um, you know, but I mean I think we've already seen that. I mean, you know, I don't think I was even aware of Ozempic and semaglutide and all these drugs until maybe January of this year. Like it was not on my radar screen at all. And by May, Jenny Craig went out of business and pointed to Ozempic and those drugs being on the market as the reason for you know closing their business and laying off all of their employees. So, I mean, to me, that was a pretty quick impact. And then, you know, simultaneously we have Nume, you know, they've already totally pivoted their business to have NUM MD, or you know, they haven't pivoted, but they have, you know, added on this big part of their business, Num MD, where, you know, yes, they're helping people figure out how to change their habits and be more healthy, and they're connecting people with physicians who can prescribe these drugs. And, you know, man, maybe I was behind the times, but that is a pretty quick shift, which I think speaks volumes to how much this is gonna change the industry, just those two companies.

Yeah, I mean, I I heard they they wrote five million prescriptions in 22, and they're gonna do more this year. So, you know, there is some of the concern absolutely around cost and and uh people using it, you know, for vanity, cosmetic reasons rather than because they have these serious health risks. Um, but I do think I think that gets a lot of attention, but I I don't think that's the primary, the the typical user. I think the typical user is is struggling with BMI, you know, above 30. And and um and and these drugs are really giving them a new a new lease on life.

You know, I listened to one one quick thing is I listened to a really interesting podcast with um uh uh Dr. Crystal Guevara. She is the wife of uh Dr. Mike Isratel of Renaissance Periodization. Um so they're obviously you know running a nutrition company. She's a family medicine physician and also works for U.S. figure skating as their sports med doctor. And she's been kind of doing the podcast circuit recently. And I listened to an episode with her. She has been a lifelong athlete, weightlifter, powerlifter, you know, bodybuilder. Um, and she's been taking, taking Ozempic and, you know, going around the circuit talking about what her experience is. And I mean, she could not be more positive, you know, to your point, Alex, about not only the impact on her own health and her own, you know, experience, but just what it means for the industry, you know, writ large. And, you know, the sorry about that. The um the interesting thing I thought, you know, she really drove home for me was that she said, look, we've been in this industry, we've been assuming this idea of, you know, hunger is equal for everybody, you know, that that everybody has the same hunger cues. And and she said, that's what her big takeaway as a as a user of this medication was, is that, you know, she her whole life has felt starving and, you know, is always been fascinated by her friends who go out to dinner and only eat half their plate. She's like, I've always cleared my plate the entire time. I think about food, I'm hungry all the time. You know, she's like, and she said that the miracle for her is it turned off that constant thinking about desire and hunger. And and she's like, oh, now I understand my you know bird, bird-like friend who only eats half their cheeseburger, um, something I couldn't relate to at all. And so, you know, I I really appreciated her point of view because she's a physician, she understands the risks. You know, she she you know, she knows, she knows what's what's going on. And she also happens to work in the industry. And, you know, she could not have, she couldn't be more positive about, you know, what this drug is doing for her as an individual and what she thinks it's gonna do, you know, for our fitness industry, writ large and and larger communities. It was really interesting.

Well, I think it's so important to isolate context. Um, I like isolating context on this. I mean, we can we could we do all this this all the time, right, as a species. We're like, well, it's deadlift. Is a deadlift good or bad? Well, no, it's the context around it, right? Is the drug good or bad? Well, it's no, it's how it's applied, who's it for, um, what are the other circumstances around it? Is this person also being, you know, uh are they uh taking a good look at their their health, like their their habits and their food and their exercise and their mental wellness, like all these things, it needs to be part of something bigger um to make it really applicable. And uh, I think that's you know, it goes with everything. Every time you get a new tool, and one of the things that um blows me away, and this could be probably the most lucrative drug ever made from a pharmaceutical standpoint, right? I mean, we are we're looking at the Morning Brew report from this week, and uh the maker of uh Wagovi, Novo Nordisk, uh gained 60 billion in market cap in one day. Like b billion b.

Yeah, b billion. Yeah, billion.

Like that's staggering. Like I can't even comprehend those numbers. I mean, uh it's yeah, this this race, it's like an arms race now to get the the best product out. So yeah, Alex, please please touch on that one.

So, you know, bringing it again back to the industry, um, you know, I have heard that that that one of the cons is a loss of of uh of muscle mass. And so that's an opportunity for the industry, right? We're you talk we talked about strength training before, uh, that you know, these these folks are losing, I don't know, 30, 40, 50 pounds. You know, some of that is is muscle mass. And and so there's a there's a nutritional aspect here around the need to up your protein probably and and to increase your strength training. And and where are you gonna, you know, where's where's the best place to get, you know, uh to work on your strength training at the you know, at the club, at the gym. Um so I I I do think, and and you know, so I think that's gonna become uh, you know, a uh hopefully a message from from the industry and and uh an opportunity.

I have a question, if you don't mind if I ask, Eric, for you two uh on this topic. But you know, I I agree. I think there's nothing but opportunity when it comes to the fitness space, you know, gyms and um any anything fitness related. But what do you think the impact is going to be on the weight loss and larger sort of nutritional consulting universe? Because, you know, I I don't live in that universe, but I mean there's huge businesses that are doing nutritional consulting and weight loss coaching. And, you know, I mean, obviously there's Weight Watchers and some of the big ones, but there's also a million small, you know, organizations who are doing, you know, one-on-one weight loss consulting and nutrition consulting. And what do you guys think the the impact will be there?

I'll take a stab at it. I I think that uh really it comes comes down to a couple things. I mean, costs, right? We talk about the overall costs. Like in order for this to get really mainstream, those costs and an insurance adoption, that has to take place. But I I think it's it's one of those things like you gotta start paying attention to it if you are in that field. Like you you gotta start understanding it. I mean, there is um anecdotally, like I had uh when I owned my gym as well, I had um people who came in after bariatric surgery. I had a special class just for them. Um, and I coached it myself. And it was really interesting to see, like, okay, you know, they still need a lot of help, like a lot, probably more than people who are going about it the quote unquote traditional way. So I think that um there's a huge market for them to tap into if they start adjusting and understanding and maybe you you know incorporating it early on. People who start realizing the opportunities. I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know, I'm quite it's AI, but I equate everything to AI now. It's like we we don't know exactly how it's gonna affect things, but you better start getting used to using it. Um, because that's the only way that you're really gonna stay on top of it. It's not clear yet, but I kind of look at it in that way. It's like it's gonna have an effect, undoubtedly. We just don't know what it is yet, but you better start being familiar with it.

Yeah, there I I I think I sent you guys that story, uh, that clip from uh from CNBC where where a Wall Street analyst was talking about uh who covers the fast food companies. And basically she was saying, if you're in the fast food business, you better you better try to figure out what the impact of this, you know, of millions and millions of people having their appetite suppressed.

You know.

And that's not the weight loss industry, but but um you know, you talk about who's in the wake. Um, those those folks are definitely, I don't know about alcohol, what it what it does to your your you know, interest in alcohol consumption uh and beer and whatever, but you know, that could be another area. So food and beverage, um not that I'm an expert there at all, but I would I would think there would be ramifications for them.

What do you think? I totally agree. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think, you know, there's a I I that of all you know, the things I read actually about Ozempik, I thought the f the food and beverage industry piece was one of the most interesting because I hadn't even thought that far, right? I had really kept my thinking sort of squarely in the, you know, the fitness weight loss space. And and I thought, man, you know, I hadn't even thought that far downstream. But yeah, I mean, I think to what to exactly what you said, Eric, I think those hopefully those industries are looking and thinking about how they're gonna react to this because you know, if it, if it goes the way it looks like it's going, it is gonna have an impact.

Yeah. And and ultimately I've always wanted to see, you know, the convergence of of healthcare and fitness, right? Somehow, how that works. I mean, it it some people are making it happen in in various ways. We don't have time to cover all of that, but I think that's this is another opportunity. It's like, well, you know, medically supervised fitness, you know, um, how do you get into that category? Uh, I think there's there's certainly opportunities there. And um, it's uh, you know, for every new challenge, there's opportunities and there's always going to be change to just get used to it. And, you know, uh, and the rate at which technology and science is advancing now, we can barely keep up with it. So um, you know, everyone's in the same boat, I guess would be the only way to say it.

Yeah. And you know, I just want to make one other kind of observation from a cost standpoint. I mean, you have to think that that Medicaid and the insurers are are starting to run the numbers. You know, is it cheaper for them overall to cover these drugs? And if the promise is that people are going to have less metabolic disease and, you know, their BMI, I mean, you know, just a whole host of positive health changes happen, um, right? They have to be doing a cost-benefit analysis here. You know, what does it cost to have someone who has a BMI over, you know, what's it costing for a lifetime for someone to have a BMI over, you know, 30? What's it costing the healthcare industry versus paying $1,000 a month for that person to be on Ozempic? I mean, someone's got to be running those numbers, right? And so I think ultimately, because it's always about money, it, you know, that's that's gonna be that's gonna be the answer to whether or not these insurers start covering these drugs. But my guess is they will.

Yeah, I saw uh some uh figures reported on the cost in Europe. And I think England's at about $100 a month for the for the uh Novo Nordist uh drugs.

Yeah, well, that's significantly different.

Yeah. Well, let's uh let's move into the final chapter, no pun intended. Um Built to Move. Uh quite a book you got there, Julia. I I really enjoyed it. I think um, you know, it's probably hard to uh to come after um Supple Leopard, right? That was uh quite quite a book. But you know, similar, my experience was like I I bought originally bought Supple Leopard just to like have as a desk reference as a coach, and then I end up reading it cover to cover. And you know, similar to what I expected this book, I was like, okay, I'm probably gonna poke around from chapter to chapter, but no, I just actually sat down and re-read the whole thing because you guys do a great job of incorporating stories into the messaging and the practical applications of what you guys are trying to teach people. So um, kudos well done. I mean, there's certainly things that I've found to be very challenging. Uh, I still can't get the sit and rise test uh nailed down to do it, but it doesn't never look good. Never looks good.

It's really hard. It's really hard, especially if you lift weights a lot.

Yeah, yeah. And the uh I'll never go through airport security uh in the same way. Sorry again. Yeah, sorry. And uh the challenge like in the 800 gram challenge, you know, I've known EC Sinkowski for a long time too. And um, you know, she's awesome. And I I love it's just really hard to get 800 grams of fruits and vegetables every day. So there's so many things. I guess, you know, if you could um why? Why did you write this book? Why was it important to you?

Sure. I mean, I think uh we've talked about some of the reasons already on this podcast and sort of my own, you know, both of us, Kelly and I are changing interest throughout our professional career and in what we care about, you know, as it relates to this fitness industry at large. And, you know, if you asked us 12 years ago, what we cared about is how can we consult with and help people who are already either fitness enthusiasts or professional athletes? How can we make them better, faster, stronger? And that was really Supple Leopard's, you know, original promise. How can we help coaches, athletes, you know, people who are already in our vertical? How can we help those people better understand how their body works and give them some tools to, you know, feel better and you know, be better at their sports. You know, we were decidedly our entire focus was in the high performance world. Um, but I think a couple of things happened. One, we started getting older and um our own, our own goals and interests changed. Um, and then, you know, we we we had this two, these two things going. You know, we were running a commercial gym where we had occasion to interact with the general public, you know, people who just wanted to feel good in their bodies and not be gross. Um, and we also are raising our kids in this suburban community in Marin County. And we, you know, we happen to be friends with a lot of our, you know, kids, friends, parents. And universally, these are all people who do actually care about being healthy, but they aren't in our vertical at all. They don't want to, they're not wearing a tracker, you know, they don't want to talk about this stuff at the din the dining room table. Um, you know, they they really have different goals. Their goals are to be out of pain, um, you know, be able to sort of do whatever recreational sports it is they want to do, whether that's pickleball or just hiking on the weekend. Or, you know, whatever. They want to be able to kind of keep up with their kids to a certain extent. And that's kind of the sum total of their health goals. You know, they aren't trying to, you know, you know, get super strong or fit or compete in events. I mean, they really just had these separate goals. And so I think, you know, what we realized over the years is, you know, we have this sort of steady stream of people knocking on our door, either at our gym or at our house, and are like, hey, Juliet and Kelly, I tweaked my back. Hey, Juliet and Kelly, I've heard about this thing called intermittent fasting. Should I try that? Or maybe keto or, you know, we've become kind of the node in our community of all things, health and fitness, even things that are sort of outside our own expertise. Um, you know, people are knocking on our door and think of us as like the the people who know all. And what we saw was that despite this fire hose of information that is now available to everybody on the internet and and social media, people actually are totally confused. And I think it was the first time where we started to realize how how much of a bubble that we're in in our own, you know, professional lives and, you know, even with the sort of subset of our friends. And realizing that what we really wanted to do is take all this, all these lessons that we've been learning, working with high performers and figuring out how we can trans translate, transmute those to everyday people who want to be healthy. And certainly when people knocked on our door, we could not hand them. This population, we couldn't say, Hey, here's a copy of Supple Leopard. Good luck to you, right? We didn't really have an easy-to-hand resource, right? Supple Leopard is like, you're not gonna hand that to your neighbor. You're not, you aren't gonna give that to your mom, right? Like we we sort of felt like we were lacking in in a resource for people. We really didn't have an accessible, relatable resource. And so that was really the why of this book, is that it was sort of years of realizing that, man, people didn't know what to do. And I think the other key thing is that nobody had ever given people a set of benchmarks, right? Like what we love about the 800 gram challenge, and and it it can be difficult, although I I would push back on you, Eric, that four apples is 800 grams. So I bet you could eat four apples in a day. Um, so um, you know, if you loop in some fruit in there, it's not as hard as you think. But um, but I think what people were really lacking was a set of simple, accessible benchmarks. They didn't need to hire a personal trainer or nutrition coach or whatever. They can, they can test themselves, they can get some data at home. You know, they can test their kids, their family. Um, and people just didn't have any benchmarks. You know, people are like, how much should I sleep? How long? How much should I walk? Should I eat vegetables? Okay, that's great. I should eat vegetables, but how much? And, you know, there's just a ton of confusion. And we just want to say, hey, we're gonna put this line in the sand. These are the basic, the most basic behaviors every human should be doing. Um, and then on top of that, if you're an athlete, stack on your training. If, you know, if you, you know, if you if you've meet met these minimums, add on a bunch of cool supplements and saunaing and tracking stuff on your aura ring. But but man, we saw a lot of people also skipping over the basics, the amount of people that we know that sauna ice track stuff on an aura ring, and seriously haven't eaten a vegetable in like three weeks. There's a lot of those people. Um, so we were also trying to kind of say to those people, like, hey, uh, you gotta meet the basics. Like, you gotta earn your aura ring. You gotta earn your sauna, you know. Um, so that that was that was a really long way around the barn, but that was the why.

The the um I you know, I think the the challenge um as I was going through the book was um, you know, how do people think about exercise in our society, right? It's it's it's around the gym. Do you go to the gym or do you not go to the gym? Um, I mean, that's simplifying, reductive, but um, and what you say at one point in the book is you don't have to go to the gym. Um, and that's a pretty, I think that's a pretty radical statement for for the for our you know for a gym person to make.

Yeah.

Um but I you're you're threading the needle in the book between, you know, you're not saying exercise isn't important, um, but it's not well Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, let me let me contextualize that a little bit. I think with our goal, we did not want to write an exercise book. And we felt like if we did even dedicated an entire chapter to exercise, our book would be categorized as an exercise book, marketed as an exercise book, sold as an exercise book. And we didn't want to do that. We felt like there are a thousand exercise books out there, there's a billion online programs people can do to follow. Um, you know, anybody who knows us knows that we are fans of exercise and exercise ourselves. Um, but what we felt like is, man, in terms of all the messages that have gotten out to the broader community, whether or not they're doing it, people know they should exercise. And actually, I think people are now starting to know that part of that exercise should include strength training. Um, but what we felt like is people didn't know all these other things that were basic fundamental behaviors they should be doing. And so rather than, you know, and you know, again, maybe we didn't thread the needle perfectly here, but rather than saying we aren't fans of exercise, um, we we wanted people to start thinking about exercise as sort of extracurricular and should be really focused on something you love doing and should involve some weightlifting. You know, we say that in our sort of end chapter. But um, you know, uh I talked about it a little earlier. I mean, we were very inspired by the blue zones, um, which are, for those who don't know, are the, you know, these six or seven areas in the world where they have, you know, the lowest morbility morbidity, mortality, and the most centenarians in those communities. Um, and a guy named Dan Butner has done some deep dive studies on those communities. And no one in those communities does any formal exercise. They aren't in without, you know, without exception, they are not strapping on their running shoe, they're not lifting weights. You know, they they're the key to longevity and health in those communities is setting up their environments and and you know, day-to-day lives. So it includes, you know, a lot of healthy food, a lot of movement, a lot of community, and you know, focusing on sleep. I mean, it's pretty basic what they're doing there. So I I think inspired by those, we wanted to say, hey, exercise is important. Um, but also we prescribe walking, and that technically is a form of exercise. And, you know, we really think for the vast majority of people, if they do these things and then find a form of exercise they enjoy doing, man, that's a pretty sweet recipe for longevity.

Yeah, it's it is. And the, you know, I've always looked at what we've done in fitness is made exercise a task that needs to be done every day. It's just like another thing, like, oh God, I gotta do the grocery, take the kids here, I gotta do this, and I gotta work out, like, ugh, right? And it's just uh, it doesn't have to be that way. And and you know, the question I have for you, and I'm looking at you guys have 10 vital signs, right? Um, getting up and down off the floor, breathing, hip extension, walking, um, neck and shoulders, um, nutrition, squatting, balance, uh, movement-rich environment, which I've really adopted. I'm constantly fidgeting, so thank you for that. Um, I thought it was just it turned out that was an advantage of mine. Um, unleashing your superpower, which is sleep. So, all of these, I'm curious, what has been the easiest for people to adopt, and what's been one of the more difficult ones for people to adopt?

Oh man, um quite a few of them have been difficult. Um, you know, I think it's because we're in the fitness space here. Um, the one that has been the most interesting to me, especially as we have, you know, been on the circuit talking about this book and talked to a lot of CrossFit specific people. Um, I think the thing that has been the most revelatory to those people is the walking piece, actually. Um, I think a lot of CrossFit people and, you know, sort of gym enthusiasts were shocked to realize that actually, you know, by scientific definitions, they're sedentary, you know, even though they're, you know, slaying, you know, 700 kick kipping pull-ups in the morning before they go to work. Um, so I think it's been super interesting to see a lot of CrossFit people um realizing they're just not moving enough throughout the day and really intentionally adding in a bunch of walking and then reporting how much better they feel, you know, how how they're recovering more from for their workouts and you know, they're adding some sleep pressure, sleeping better. So, you know, I think in the fitness community in particular, I think that's an area where you'd think, oh, these people 100% are moving throughout the day enough. And in many cases, they aren't. Um, so I think that's been a big revelation in the in the fitness industry. And then, you know, one story I'll tell you that has still continued to blow our minds, um, and I think so shows how stuck we get in our vertical of fitness. You know, we Kelly was on a podcast um recently and just said, hey, you know, you need to get seven or eight hours of sleep. And I think in our business, we've we all we've all done our own research on sleep and read Matt Warker's book, and people have been talking about the importance of sleep for many years. I think we all know and accept that as pretty much true. And and we do because every major sleep foundation, you know, American Academy of Sleep, and every other organization that researches sleep is like, yep, no one's special. You need to get seven or eight hours of sleep, like, period end. This isn't really a discussion. Like it's it's it's done. Um, Kelly went on a podcast that sort of its its audience was outside the health and fitness business. And and a 15-second clip on Instagram was posted, like, hey, you should sleep seven or eight hours, and it should lean towards eight hours if you're trying to grow muscle, become a better athlete, recover from surgery, you know, sort of under these conditions. And man, I mean, that thing has like three million views on Instagram. And something like 5,000 comments and 4,500 of the comments are actually negative. People are upset and felt triggered. Um, and man, I mean, I think for me, it just sort of confirmed that like we need this book in the world. Because again, I think, you know, one thing we were worried about as we put it out is like, man, is this overly simplistic? And, you know, maybe for some who are deep in the fitness industry, it it some of the chapters, they're like, Yeah, I've got that, and I've had that since, you know, 2005. Um, although we've noticed even fitnessers have plenty of blind spots when it comes to the vital signs. But man, I mean, that that one experience really confirmed for us that that, man, if there's that much debate in the broader community about how much sleep you should get, when we in the fitness business are like, oh yeah, of course, seven or eight hours, like it's a done deal. No, you know, no one would debate that. So I think we've had a lot of interesting lessons about sort of what what people in the fitness business have learned and gained from it and how much work we have to do when we get outside of our vertical.

Hey, I have a who's upset about eight hours of sleep.

You'd be shocked. I'm gonna send you the post afterwards, Eric, because I mean, I'm telling you, it's like it's as though we've said, like, we're kidnapping your children on the corner because that's the thing to do. Like it, like Kelly and I we're we were completely taken off guard. Like, no part of us thought that saying this was even slightly controversial. Like, I we know we the thing we thought would be controversial in the book actually was our protein recommendations, because it's, you know, I mean, again, it's not that unusual in the fitness business, but I think, you know, compared to the RDA and other sort of general protein requirements, it's quite a bit more than most people are, you know, used to being eating or being recommended to eat. But man, the sleep thing really shocked us. What was your question, Alex?

Oh, yeah. So there's one. Um, and I may have missed this, but what about a mindfulness practice? Like, isn't that kind of core these days? Um, not these days, but isn't that core to overall, you know, health and well-being?

Yeah, I mean, there's certainly some, you know, we had to choose what we thought were were were critical, right? And so um in in order to have a tidy book, I mean, I think the things that I would include that we didn't include would be, yes, some kind of mindfulness practice. I think even above that, I would probably, you know, add a chapter on the importance of community. I mean, I know that, you know, people who are lonely lose eight years on their lifespan. So, I mean, I think uh that actually would be above mindfulness in my mind is you know, the importance of having strong, you know, close family relationships and friendships in your life. I think that's pretty critical. You know, people have asked why we didn't include hydration. Um, yes, we believe hydration is important. Um, you know, there's sort of a variety of things, but we we had to sort of pick and choose. And the reason we chose these 10 versus others is, you know, as busy working parents raising two kids, um, we really sat there and talked about what things we actually have been able to actually do in our own lives with consistency. And turns out these were the 10 things we've been able to do. And yes, we also focus on our you know immediate family and close connections and friendships. Um, but that these particular practices were the ones that had moved the needle the most for us and we felt like we're relatable. So, you know, at some point we had to pick and choose, but I agree. Right. Mindfulness, community, hydration, you know, there's there's some things that are also important.

Well, it's an awesome book. I'm glad you guys wrote it. And I think the um I've said this before, and sometimes it's unpopular, but the uh I think at times in the fitness industry we can overcomplicate things maybe just to justify our own existence. Uh, as tough as that sounds, like it doesn't have to be super complicated. The programming doesn't need to be expertly done. You know, we don't need periodization for every human on the planet, right? We can just focus on some simple habits. And I I could talk about the coach's journey. And, you know, with me personally, it was like, okay, I I took a certification uh and I opened a gym and I was positive that CrossFit and Paleo could cure everything in the world. Um, you know, right.

Oh my God, I was on that same tip, Eric. I was with you. I was right there with you on that.

And then I spent five years really starting to get educated, realized I knew nothing, right? And that was like I wanted to burn it all down and start over again. And then there was the point where I got to where I was like, you know what? Like basically this book. It's like, well, if we just moved more and we ate better and we slept more and you know, focused on those simple things in life that we could do every day, we we can really make a difference. So thank you for putting it so eloquently into a book and and uh you know putting all of your guys' experience behind it. It was really good. Um, as we we wrap this up, this first industry roundtable. Um I guess you know, if people got this far, thank you for listening. And I would love to hear from you. You guys, I think all of us will love if there's another topic or something that you find uh is worth a deeper dive into, we would we would love to hear it. Um and uh yeah, I guess any any final thoughts, uh Juliet, Alex, anything from from you guys before we close this down?

Well, I I just want to say thank you again, yeah, for setting this up. Um like you said at the beginning, I have been extremely excited about this and probably spent an unreasonable amount of time preparing for it and reading uh reading things in preparation for it. But I was really excited and I think it's so important, and um, I was just very excited to nerd out with the two of you on on all these things. So thank you for having me.

Yeah, yeah. No, Eric, thanks, and Juliet, thanks. And um, I hope we do it again. And and uh, you know, Peloton's coming out with their earnings in a couple of weeks. Um, and you know, I just I I appreciate the forum and the uh the platform to you know talk about things that I think uh help the the the you know the fitness uh ecosystem. Um and hopefully we're yeah you know I know there's the the world probably doesn't need another podcast, but hopefully, you know, we're we're thoughtful and and smart and well informed enough to bring something to the table.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, you guys uh I'm I'm just you know writing on your coattails here. You guys have put all the work in and written the books and run the companies and and done all the things. So it's been uh it's been an absolute pleasure to sit with you guys. So thank you everybody for listening. Thank you, Juliet. Thank you, Alex. We'll uh we'll definitely do this again and uh we'll call that a wrap. Thanks, Eric. Thank you. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.