Joel Smith - Beyond Longevity: Aging Athletically vs Just Living Longer

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[00:00:33] futureoffitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. Joel Smith – Here we go, Joel Smith, man. Welcome to the Future of Fitness. It's great to have you. Joel Smith – Yeah, thanks for having me, Eric.

[00:00:51] Joel Smith – Yeah, very excited. So I'm going to give a quick bio, but before we do that, I'm going to lay out what we're going to talk about today because I'm like I was saying, I'm selfishly very excited about this because one of the episodes of your podcast, Just Fly Sports Podcast, which is great, was like, I think it was the

[00:01:06] Yeah, 10 keys to athletic longevity and peak performance. And in my vision, at least, you know, my lived experience, you go to the gym and you see a lot more people working. Longevity, you and I can talk about the buzzword effect of what's going on with longevity in our industry. But that's great. People are told to lift weights, eat better, sleep better, optimize protocols, blah, blah, blah, all these things. Right? But when I see people moving around, sometimes I wonder, are they aging athletically? And I think there's a certain component and probably larger than people think.

[00:01:36] A lot of people who maybe were athletes or see themselves as athletes or just enjoy doing things athletically that they want to age athletically, not just well, but maintain, maintain movement. And as in your words, have a richness to their athletic or their physical being. Right? So we're going to talk about how that can happen. You think about that a lot. You write about it. You talk about it. Before we do that, I just want to get into kind of a quick bio.

[00:02:04] So you, eight years as a strength coach at UC Berkeley, across swimming, tennis, water polo and track and field. Your program's put five athletes on Olympic bursts, I believe, if that's correct, at Rio 2016. Produced roughly nine medals in a world record, four national championships in track, multiple All-Americans. Currently coaching high school track while running, just fly sports full time. So you're an educator, you have books, a lot of different things. So yeah, there's a, you've been around for a while. You've worked with a lot of athletes, you know, some things.

[00:02:33] So how do we age athletically, Joel? How do we do that? Very good. Teach me. Very good question. I think almost to go to definitions first is, you know, to be an athlete, what does that mean? Because I think a lot of us, we do sports in high school, perhaps college. And then what we tend to see is people just don't play that sport again.

[00:02:55] I was a football player. And then especially something like football, it's not like there's like pickup American football in the local park. You know, maybe you keep with a pick, you know, men's basketball league if you play basketball or, but it's not, I don't think it's so common to continue and continue the love for the sport you had over an extended period of time.

[00:03:15] You see it sometimes I'll be going to like my children's soccer games and you'll see guys who actually just show up, roll out. It's unofficial, just kind of pick up soccer. To me, that's almost the epitome of the athlete. It's not organized. It's community. It's just buddies of my community. Hey, let's roll the ball. I'll meet you at the field. Let's go.

[00:03:32] And I would say too, there's probably less arguments in that type of setup. So you go to the Y at the men's basketball league, the Y or softball. Sometimes there's people really getting into it. I think there's a lot more goodwill sometimes that some of these unofficial, let's just get things going type item. And so all this to be said, there's something about the love and joy of movement itself. That's almost even above that layer of athlete. To me, it's, it's meaningful movement. It's meaningful, rich movement.

[00:04:02] So in some sense, if you love gardening, maybe that's your, you're, you're an athlete gardener. You, you get out every day or nature in the sunshine. You're repeatedly doing a meaningful task, something that goes beyond. Let's just say, and not that weights aren't meaningful. I think doing things like Olympic lifts and CrossFit, those are more meaningful in my belief than just, Hey, just carry this weight from A to B because there's a skill behind it. There's something that is this both confidence inducing and overcoming.

[00:04:32] of standing up with a way under a clean. But to me, the most meaningful items are usually those born of skill, culture, outdoors and sunlight, friends, and that process of just learning something and mastering something. And I think when we can do those things, a lot of times our body kind of takes care of itself in the sense of, you know, when we put these ingredients in a plant, the place we end up in is pretty good. I think sometimes we look at it.

[00:05:00] I'll do this exercise to protect your arm and, you know, hit this amount of caloric intake and take this supplement. But I always look at it from that ground up, like those fundamental items that you remember when you were a kid, maybe 12 or 13, you're out with your buddies in the sun shining and you're, you're just having a joyful time. Like, why do we not start there in so many cases? That's a great question.

[00:05:23] And I think a lot of people, why they maybe fall off of fitness routines because they're kind of boring a lot of the time. I mean, bodybuilding has become like the go-to fundamental piece for strength training. Right. And I think a lot of people, because it's, you know, it's simple and you can get on the machines, you can do a lot of these movements and, you know, aesthetics has been such the big part of the strength and conditioning or strength training for most of the population has been the goal. And bodybuilding can deliver on that.

[00:05:49] But after a while, like those, those goals, that experience of the weightlifting lacks something, right? For most people and they feel it. So it just kind of gets boring. Like you want to do the same routine all the time. And now, now boring is, is actually pretty important when it comes to training. Like we know that, like the ability to be able to do the same thing kind of over and over again, but it has to have, it has to relate to something else, right? Like you're saying to the richness of life.

[00:06:16] And we have, if we can make that connection, like, Hey, this in the gym is benefiting this part of my life very concretely and noticeably, then that's important. So yeah, I mean how, and I've noticed when I, whenever I talk to great coaches and people educate coaches, philosophy, everyone has their own philosophy on things. Right. And I think that's really important too, for your training is what's my philosophy behind my training.

[00:06:38] So maybe let's start with like the, the connection to how do we motivate our clients to stay athletic and, you know, mentally get them into the right headspace about their training. Absolutely. Yeah. And I do think you're right, Eric, you can do things that are athletic and it could be more remedial and boring and kind of ritual oriented every day at this time. I'm going to get out and do X amount of reps of this skill.

[00:07:00] And, you know, that's, I think sometimes people who look at a very athletic mindset and even to go further, some of the principles of motor learning, it can get kind of messy and seem disorganized. And so even in my own training, I have days that are very athletic, but I also have days that are very just meat and potatoes, like lifting weights. You go run seven, 200 meter sprints on two minutes recovery. I think for me, a variety of those mediums is important. Yeah.

[00:07:30] But for me, yeah, with the philosophy of things, I think that I start with everything you do has a specific meaning and we embody life. So if I do something athletic, let's say it's just racing people, something you do when you're seven years old and you can also enjoy thoroughly when you're 45 or 50 years old. I have people I train will, will train. And one of my favorite things is getting out cool noodles and I'll do a game where basically one person's running away. You try to swap the person with a fool noodle. I don't think the age limit expires on that.

[00:07:59] It will get a smile out of you, whether you're seven or 20 or 50. Everybody loves that. There's something in our spirit that goes back to in the same way. I think music facilitates memories or different sights and smells facilitate memories of our childhood. Chasing and dodging will always do that. And so there's different embodiments to different activities. Strength and conditioning. And you could say CrossFit or even high rocks. The embodiment of a heavy weight is that of confidence and empowerment.

[00:08:30] And that's great. That is something that's very important. But if that's all you have, I think you can sell yourself short. And then we can also go and look up the tree or sideways to another branch on the trio. Okay, bodybuilding. There's something there of discipline and mastery and inner transformation. Because I think the further you go in the really, really deep bodybuilding route, there's a lot of inner game, mental game, even to the Bronze Age or pre-Bronze Age bodybuilders who are really in a muscle control.

[00:08:59] Hey, I can move this trap. And this one's relaxed. And a lot of those people were very deep. The classic pec flick. Very, yes. Yes. On the differential equations, advanced calculus version. Yes, exactly. And I think, yes, I will say you probably do that. You might feel that little mastery of the body. So those things absolutely, I think, are good. But yeah, they don't necessarily live forever.

[00:09:23] Yeah, you look at Dorian Yates, who might be a classical example of a bodybuilder who had the inner game on about the highest level you could get. And then his body just couldn't take it. Now he does a lot of yoga. He still has strength. But it's, you know, even yoga gives you something. But then I think on the other side of those more, I would call them disciplines that are more inner. If we have a quadrant, there's disciplines that are more outer or external. And athleticism is things in the outer world.

[00:09:49] In many cases, it's a ball or a Frisbee or whatever it is flying through the air that you have to chase down. It's other humans. It's things outside of ourself. And so, so much of fitness is just things in inner. But athleticism revolves around a lot of things that are also outer to us. And that's where I like if you would look at the work of Udo Portal, you see a lot of things with like tennis balls and sticks and these tools of the outer world.

[00:10:16] And but unless you, I think, really kind of understand that, it might just look like some guy screwing around with kind of cool looking, but a little esoteric. I'm not sure what's happening here type stuff. But the more I think you see it, the more you do understand there's this there's this mixture of things that are that which is inner and that which is outer and athletic. And they both work together. I think the world of fitness misses the outer heavily because it fully gives that up to sport. But what if you aren't playing a sport? Or what if you want to practice sport in an alternative manner?

[00:10:46] If you watch people who are very heavy into weightlifting, be it CrossFit or any similar discipline or even strength and conditioning coaches and you watch how they do a lot of movements, you see a very inner mentality. You see a lot of gritting faces and teeth and expressions that would indicate a hardness. And this is I'm going to try harder, you know, or you could say enter the try hard archetype. But a really good athlete is fluid and they're more like water or the bamboo tree.

[00:11:14] And so the external helps you to hone that. I'll just say quickly, because I can get carried away with a lot of ideas is one of the things that's actually struck me in the last year. And I was being a strength coach for a long time. It's just the word soften. Like I'll do various activities where I throw a tennis ball and chase it. And as soon as I reach a certain threshold, I can't I always miss the catch. And I get a little frustrated. And I used to do that in basketball to my high school coach. He called me bubbles, which I still don't know what I think about. I've had that. Well, it sounds like it caused trauma.

[00:11:44] He put glue on my hands once. Yeah, I think it was just that thing that I was never that good at. I could never figure out. And I always wanted to be the best athlete. But anyways, I'll just think to myself the keyword of soften. And when things can kind of reach a more balanced point, I can get that ball. And I also feel a little better. And I think there's something there's just something that runs deeper to all these things. So to kind of give a long winded answer, every movement has some sort of emotional deeper trait to it.

[00:12:12] And then there's things that are very external in nature and probably more skillful, I could say with that. And then there's things that are more internal and grind oriented. And I think we need a ratio of both to probably have the best movement experience we can. When you have someone walk into your gym, you start working with someone. And this is like their goal, right? Longevity. They're not necessarily there for straight sports performance or human performance. They just want to be the best they can for as long as they can.

[00:12:41] How does that conversation start? Like, how do you lay out the goals? Like, how do you extract what they want, right? So you can paint them a picture that keeps them motivated over time. So you can always come back to it. I think that's one of the things about coaching is, well, people start to forget why they're there. Well, let's come back to why we, the original conversation, right? So how do you, how do you outline that initial few conversations or that, that first period of working with them? For sure.

[00:13:05] So a lot of people who see me and work with me, I do a lot of work online, which I appreciate because, you know, it's the age we live in where it's like, I'm seeking you out for a very specific purpose. I'll get a lot of master's track athletes. I have, I train master's track from age 40 up to 74, which is amazing. And I also have dog agility competitors who work with me. And so in that sense, you know, that, that's. Like canine? Yes. Yes.

[00:13:35] Dog agility, run with the dog. You're pointing at different directions to go and helping it get through the course. So you think there's your external object. And so in that sense, the richness is kind of taking care of itself because you're doing that thing. Or if you play basketball. And so the conversation, if they don't already have something that is like a physical activity, that's rich. If it's like a pure general fitness item. It's well, what, what was your sport? You know, what did you do growing up? What did the other kids say about you?

[00:14:04] You know, what was your gifts athletically? What made you feel good about movement? And it's, oh, I was, you know, I played softball and, you know, I was, I was, had a really powerful arm. Okay. Can we bring some of these things into a physical fitness session? So you remember what that feels like, because. And that, that will pull everything forward. I mean, just, and I found this quickly in the sense that. My body was a little more built for jumping and throwing than it was lifting very heavy things.

[00:14:32] And unless I have some elements of jumping and throwing in my program, I actually can't get a strong, just period, you know? And so it's finding what did you do and what movements do you make you feel confident about yourself and what movements might you struggle with? And I like success begets success. So when you start with athletic things that someone is good at, they, that sparks a dose of nostalgia and confidence and the joy of that thing. And you can kind of roll with that.

[00:15:02] I am a little open-ended follow the thread type person. Let's start with these things athletically and we will layer it into what you, the meat and potatoes, the regimen. Yeah. Yeah. When you look at most gym setups, I mean, I'm guessing the best place to do this type of training is probably the, you know, more independent midsize operator, you know, like a CrossFit style box or a sports performance center.

[00:15:28] But I think most of the, you know, most people will gravitate towards kind of the bigger boxes, you know, the YMCA or, you know, Crunch or, you know, some of these, depending on where they live lifestyle, you know, lifetime, they can afford it. But if you're, if you're, let's say that midsize operator or regional operator, how would you start to shift your mindset and maybe even your operations or even the structure of your gym to start serving this particular need a little bit more?

[00:15:56] Or do you think this is like how big of a population do you think wants this? I guess. And is it worth it? Yeah. So you're wondering, I would say this is a slight speculative territory, but I can, I can give it, I can give you my best shot based on what I've seen and what I know people really do love. And I think about something, it was, it might've been Steve Jobs or somewhere in the Apple realm. It was, but basically it was like talking about customer surveys and the idea that sometimes people actually don't know what they really want.

[00:16:23] And I actually do that the same way with athletic movement, because I think a lot of people think about fitness and they have this idea of what fitness should be. It should be. And honestly, that first thing is body composition. I mean, we all know this. One of the, probably the biggest thing by far is I want to look better. I want to feel and look better. Everyone wants to look better. That is the lowest hanging fruit, probably by a landslide. And so it is funny to think about, well, where's meaning come into this?

[00:16:49] You know, it's, and I think that once that ball is, it's almost like that has to be taken care of, I believe, to a certain point. You know, if someone's, I am just so out of shape and you come in with, Hey, let's play these games and here's the stick. And they might be like, dude, just, just, yeah. Just help me lose 20. Exactly. Exactly. So I think you need to be mindful of that. But that being said, with people who are reasonably in shape, like to the point where they could do something athletic and feel like, Oh, this is part of the workout.

[00:17:17] Like I, I'm, and you're athletic enough to do something athletic. And it, it is as good of or better of a workout than just, you know, get on the treadmill, do these basic weights, you'll pull the sled, whatever low intensity thing. So it's like, there's a threshold of once your ability gets to the point where starting to do athletic things will give you a relatively equivalent workout. So I think that's the point where you can really start to roll with that.

[00:17:40] And so that being said, every adult I've worked with, where we do athletic things, be this people who are used to the CrossFit class. As soon as it's an athletic day, freaking love it. Like every single time, never do they not. If you take a bunch of strength coaches and they're used to working out, I hear this from other strength coaches on my podcast and you play pickup basketball or some game. Everyone's after the session. Why don't we do that more often? And then they don't do it more often. What?

[00:18:09] And maybe it's like the hierarchy is an accessibility because we have to all, we have to get a core. It's got to be open. You know, we have to, all these kinds of stars have to align in some perspective. It's like scheduling is a little harder these days in some respects, but that's why I like those guys who just kind of roll out to the soccer goals and they got their ball. And, you know, even before the goals might be open, they're still finding games to play with just a ball, the simplest things in life. And so, yeah, that, that extreme accessibility for gamified things.

[00:18:35] So all that being said, my thought is everyone who has an athletic past, even those who don't thoroughly appreciate skill-based movement that reminds you of sport in some way or is sport. And so one of the classes I really like, Frank Forensic is a sociologist and I think martial arts experienced and does a lot of this type of activity. If you YouTube Frank Forensic class, you'll see a bunch of adults. It's kind of a hippie class.

[00:19:01] But I think if you got past the stigma of it being out in, I think, Oregon somewhere, you know, if this was normalized, this would be, in my opinion, it would be one of the most popular fitness activities. But basically the whole class is very, it's based on roughhousing, play, play-based movement, really dance, elements of dance and rhythm. And I guess you could say some of it is probably more sweat pumping than others. If you take a dial with some of those things, you can make it extremely intense.

[00:19:29] Like I can make, I could make roughhousing and dance-based agility ladder and like tug of war and a workout that would rival most, if any, high rocks or crosser workout to some level, just because you can keep the heart rate very, very high. So just that being said, if you look at some of Frank's classes, I think that more people than I think that we think would be very interested in a class like that or as the warmup.

[00:19:56] So what's happening in more strength and conditioning is a lot of strength coaches are making this the warmup period of their regiment. Rhett Larson, who works with volleyball internationally, is a big proponent. His thing is called No Zavis, his theme. And because athletes will roll in and they're kind of like, oh, the same warmup again. And so at least the warmup will be completely novel, gamified, dance, skill-based, things that stimulate a different part of the brain that makes you feel alive and engaged. And then they'll go into the more regimented work.

[00:20:25] So I think you have one of two options is, and strength and conditioning is experiencing a lot of success. You watch the videos and athletes are really enjoying it. Everyone speaks very positively of it. So the question is, can that make the jump to where people pay for the class? I'd say yes. I mean, why not? Or you have a class that's essentially entirely like that. If you look at Frank Francis' classes and you see the smiles and how much people are loving it, I would have to ask, why has this not become more popular?

[00:20:52] Maybe we just, like a lot of things, the thing exists 20 or 30 years before the world's ready for it sometimes. And maybe that's a little bit of it too. You know, it reminds me too, in my coaching and operating days, one of the things I would do for warmups is we'd play games in the class setting, in the CrossFit class setting. And I just remember, like one of them was we would have PVC pipes, right? So one would hold it and they would drop it one way and that other person had to catch it with just their left hand, right? Or then they eventually, it got to increasing levels of difficulty as it went on. And you would see people who are just all business, right?

[00:21:21] Straight face, just I'm here to grind. And then two minutes in, they're laughing. Yes. They're smiling, right? They're joking. And you're like, God, like that's, and they're adults. They're like 55-year-old dentist, right? And they're just, all of a sudden their day is lighter and they're having more fun. We do one where you had to hold the ab mat above your hat and so-and-so had to try to, you know, whack it off with their hand. And it just got to be so ridiculous and fun, but everyone's like, look at them. They're actually being athletic. They just don't know it because they're playing a game.

[00:21:49] And that's so, every time I forget about it and then I'm reminded of how important it is just to play, right? And we have to give ourselves excuses now in modern day as adults to actually do that when we should just be core to what we do. And it's hard to find, you know, I can say as well, it's not, you just have to put in a little bit of effort. So I think that's something that's, as people are listening, like, why not? And it's as a coach, as if you're coaching a class, what a great way to start a class. It doesn't take a lot of effort, right?

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[00:24:37] You have to have scheduling to that court. You have to drive to that court. But if you have pool noodles and sticks and tennis balls, you can come up with a lot of, and balloons too. You can come up with a lot. There was a warm-up game that Eric Guthrie, a strength coach, I think he was at George Washington University at the time, said his, maybe it was the women's gymnastics team or lacrosse team did. And it was basically a balloon basketball. And you had to hit the balloon up in the air and eventually get it to hit the backboard, maybe go in the hoop. And they said they were playing for 30 minutes hard.

[00:25:06] Everyone was just drenched in sweat at the end and laughing. And just, that was one of the best workouts we got all year, kind of randomly. But the thing that I think a lot of people might be asking, well, two things, because these are kind of the more official carts of our brain and design is, is it safe and injuries, right? And then, well, wouldn't you get a better workout if you're doing like wads or like repeats, you know, whatever it is. And, and okay. Right, right, right. And okay.

[00:25:33] More calorically efficient. Yeah. Yes. It's, everything is so efficient today. And I think that's one of the things, if I had to contend anything against, you know, the buzzword of longevity and this optimization culture and the way everything is, it's, it's very official and efficient. And within that, a game is kind of the opposite because, well, okay, I will say this. You can end up working much harder during a game than a traditional workout. I'll get into that in a second. But games are a little, I guess the best word is messy.

[00:26:04] It's not, it's chaotic. It's, there's a little bit, if you're very like, you know, tight, tightly wound, it should be like this. That's going to get unwound, you know? And so there is that piece of it. And some people absolutely love that. Some people will be more drawn to that. Some people will be, okay, I'll take a few games. Okay. And that could be my safe and stable workout. And that's okay too. And maybe understanding some of the spectrum, because when you play a game, you're going to see those personality types come out. You're going to see people quite diving.

[00:26:31] You're going to see people just really, I mean, I see it even, it's funny when it's the kids versus the parents soccer game for anyone listening to this. Ben to one of those things. I can't believe more parents either don't get hurt or don't run over kids on accident more often. Cause these, some of these parents, some are like happy, kind of, you know, in the middle. I may be cool. I'm not going to try too hard against my kid. And some parents are just going all out. I'm like, what is going on? You need to play more. You need to play more so you can learn to scale this against the eight year olds.

[00:27:01] Cause they don't need you flying all over the place, but they are like chomping at the bit to get out there. And it's, man, we should be doing this. At least have goals in your backyard and play pickup with your kids at least on a regular basis. You know, let's not wait for now necessarily. If this is the only time this happens. So it's like, I think there was those, it's kind of the same thing as a playground. Why are the playgrounds all scaled down from the nineties? Because, you know, the lawyers came in and the designers, and this has to be very safe and benign.

[00:27:28] And Jonathan Haidt, he does a lot of sociology and kind of why society is getting a little weaker because we don't have any risk anymore. You know, he would show a playground too from the fifties. Like this is unsafe. This playground is definitely unsafe. This is a good middle ground. And this is way, way too safe. This is not, this is not challenging enough for most kids. This is kind of late. And so I do think we just live, if we zoom out and look at the culture, I mean, we live in this culture.

[00:27:54] That's kind of like everything is so efficient and follow the protocol by the guru. And so many protocols. It's, it's honestly, and that's the thing is I'm not saying, I think by saying that people would say, oh, well, you just love games too much. You're anti-science and I'm, no, I am pro human spirit. And if you neglect the role of the human spirit that fits within protocol, you will not end up at your potential.

[00:28:18] I can say this was from my track coach hat, which is all about the farthest you can throw, the highest you can jump, the fastest you can sprint. There is no protocol that gets you all the way there. It is always the human spirit. It's always the vibe, if you will, the session. It's always how you perceive your training. It's the culture of your teammates and the team rituals. It's everything. And we don't look at everything. We look at one little quadrant and that's going to get me there.

[00:28:46] And I trust this, you know, this little protocol to get me there. And the game shows you that life is far more complex and also awesome than that at the same time. You know, I hear you talking about this and totally agree. And I think as we age, you know, as life gets more complicated, right? You know, you just think something people have families, you get a full-time job, you have aging parents, you got financial things to concern yourself with.

[00:29:14] The rise and grind culture is very real. It's, it finds, it becomes more difficult for people to prioritize fun and sport and being athletic. And how do you help people with that component of it? And this essentially like, where can you make room for this? And then how can you make it a priority for yourself as you age and give yourself permission to actually do it? Yeah.

[00:29:43] I think the first thing is just to prioritize that, which is meaningful. Meaningful in the movement perspective. Honestly, maybe it's just a morning walk in the sunrise. Just because I think just to reconnect with not the short body, Frank, for instance, has coined this term, the short body is basically just that little protocol based system of, of do this movement, take this supplement, do this thing. And it's only about you and that specific protocol.

[00:30:11] The long body is my family, my community, nature, water. I drink the sunlight, like actually it hitting my eye and not seeing it through the window, walking around in my community. Like these, all these things that actually make us who we are, that go so far beyond just us as the person or us as the protocol. And so to me, the very first thing is just to simply get outside of the short body and get into something that's meaningful beyond yourself.

[00:30:38] And, you know, for me, it's just getting out in my backyard in the morning, trying to have the sun hit my eye. Usually I'm just kind of bouncing around a little bit, like kind of like just shake it up. We're looking weird for the neighbors, I guess, if they're watching me. And if there's like animals around, I usually take a moment to kind of look at what the birds are doing. There was two ducks in my front yard or my side yard the other day. And then there was like a robin that flew up on a fire hydrant or between them. And I'm like, what conversation are they having? I don't know.

[00:31:03] Anyways, all I have to say is I like to take some time to just get outside and appreciate that, which is beyond myself and that, which I enjoy. Or there could be a walk after lunch and just enjoying just being outside in the wind on my face. And so just to start by just being aware of that, I think just meaningful movement and connection with that which is around you, be a community, our nature is very important. Rather than I think necessarily forcing a particular game, because I think we all have, we're all in N of one.

[00:31:31] We all enjoy different things. But beyond that, I would then say, well, within your community, can you find simple ways to have fun? You know, for me, it's like I was just even this morning before the bus came with school, my nine-year-old daughter's jumping on the trampoline. She loves to put music on and jump and dance. And my joke is I go in the room and I like pretend like I'm dancing and she thinks it's annoying. So she'll run at me and try to wrestle me or push me out of the room.

[00:31:58] So we're having like a little roughhousing thing, just like those playful moments. It shouldn't just be, I think, something that exists in one little component of our lives. I think it's actually an attitude that should permeate all the way through. Yeah, because again, you know, maybe if you had pick up water polo air, you know, let's go, you know, I'm like, I will drown. I'll try, but I'm going to be in trouble, you know, or like or some people may really enjoy like roughhousing or chase games or just different.

[00:32:28] Items, you know, different sports and outlets. But I think at the core of it all is I do not think that just as a general community, immediate community, we spend enough time, physical touch, physical interactions. We live in this very small part of our head and in procedural knowledge, as John Vervakie would say, not participatory, where we actually participate as participants of MUVA with each other. So I would start there. I don't think it has to be complicated.

[00:32:57] It's a great start, man. Yeah. And yeah, I wish there was no pickup water polo anywhere around Whitefish, Montana. I can tell you that right now. You'd have a thousand miles for the nearest one. Yeah. It would take a while. You know, something that you brought up in our pre-recording chat was seasonality. And I thought that was really important and interesting too, because, you know, leaving California almost 10 years ago now, coming to Montana and Santa Barbara, California, where I live, there's not, I mean, there's seasonality. Right.

[00:33:23] But let's be honest, like it's 72 and sunny most days coming here. Very distinct. Right. And I've noticed myself falling, willfully falling into cycles of seasonality. You know, in the winter, we ski. Right. In the fall, I hunt. Right. In the summer, in the spring and summer, it's I'm on my gravel bike. And then, you know, trying to do all these different things, fly fishing and hiking and doing all this stuff.

[00:33:45] So the seasonality is kind of forces you into these things, which gives you, gives me an opportunity to change my training, change my exercise over the year to prepare or endure or stay healthy for something that I'm enjoying doing. And I feel like that's lost in many people's lives. Maybe not here. I think we're in a little microcosm. Yeah. You know, people are really into their outdoor activities, but that's not normal. So explain to me why, why you think seasonality is so critical and maybe something we've lost. Yeah. It was a couple of podcasts I did on my own show.

[00:34:15] Two guests got my wheels really turning on that thing. And it was all preceded by after my track career was over, I proceeded to essentially train like a sprinter and jumper year round. And for probably 10, 15 years. And it got to the point where I'm just like, it's not fun anymore because this is all I do. And so the first conversation was an individual named Sam Weiss, who is also a track coach.

[00:34:43] But again, he's also an acupuncturist and studied a lot of Chinese medicine. And within Chinese medicine, there's a lot of seasonality. There's very specific parts of the human spirit, our activities that kind of lie within the seasons. And, you know, I don't think you have to go all the way into that and believe everything to get the essence of the fact that the long body, the human being, we are wired up with the amount of sunlight exposure we get. And there's meaning in the seasons.

[00:35:10] There's meaning of the winter, this kind of rest and reset a little bit, a little bit of hibernation reset type vibes. But also if there's snow, you get to play in the snow and you appreciate that. And then the summer is like heat. There's a reason the fastest sprinters in the world are from very sunlit places. And even in the United States, what are the fastest states? Texas, Florida, California. Very sunny, very warm places. And also a lot of rich cultural, competitive culture in Texas will fall in those things.

[00:35:39] But it's very sunlight equals speed. And so I got to this point with Sam where I'm like, yes, I understand that. But it was Christian Thibodeau is a very well-known fitness and strength and conditioning coach. And he's also getting very into longevity at this point in his career. And he gave an anecdote on my podcast about basically someone, I think it was like an athlete who's like 55. This guy is so yoked and in shape. And he was going on about like how athletic this guy is.

[00:36:06] And he said that that guy divided his year into quadrants with very, you could say very masculine, traditional, forceful activities. But it was basically bodybuilding in the fall, powerlifting in the winter, Olympic lifting in the spring, and then more of a track, maybe sprint focus in the summer. And that was his series. And I heard that and I was thinking, you know what? That's got to be the way to go. So this is because even with track season, in my 20s, my season typically would be summer. I'm working, moving in the summer.

[00:36:36] I had a moving job. So I'd go to people's houses, drive around and run up and down the stairs, do all that. I'd work out too, lift weights and stuff. But then fall was a lot more tempo running on the track. We did a lot. We did everything. But tempo running was something like 200s and 300s repeat, high aerobic demand. That was something that really, I remember very much so of that time. And then the winter competitive season and then the spring, we were competing. And so that was like the fire season.

[00:37:02] And I think unless some of those shifts exist, and that was just for a speed power outcome, you had to have those shifts for the best outcome at the end of the year. And then you would start the cycle over again. And so anyways, between Christian's anecdote, going back to that, I'm like, yeah, that has to happen. And so here in Ohio, my big ones personally is the winter is rock climbing. It's time for a little focus on rock climbing and more strength. So I tend to put in a little bit more muscle.

[00:37:31] I focus a little bit more on strength. And sandbags is a favorite for me at that time of the year, just because it's a little more gritty. It kind of is more alive. It's like you're fighting something because every time you pick it up, there's like this tool. It's like you're fighting the thing. That's a good tip. Yeah. And I actually, I'll tell you, I actually get physically stronger with sandbags in my training mix and equation. I actually need that because I think it elicits that out of me. Whereas I'm a little more calm, a little too calm to really get the most out of my body. I need something that like, it's like it's picking a fight with me.

[00:38:01] So I have to have. And so it's rock climbing and sandbags. And then once I hit the spring and summer, then it's, I'm kind of in track and field mode. So if I'm out of track practice, I'll do jumps before, after practice, I'll get on the track and do sprints. And so that's that mode. And then the fall is a little bit more restoration. It's almost like kind of receiving and processing the totality. It's a lot more trail running. It's a little bit of a reset time for me. It's kind of like that. The harvest is done.

[00:38:29] And let's like, let's kind of enjoy it. So a little bit more lower intensity, cardio aerobic based trail running type activities. So that's kind of where my, my seasons fall at. And then of course, you know, with my kids, it's signing them up for a different sport every season. And my son goes rock climbing with me in the winter as well. I think it's a nice activity when him and his friends aren't outside so much. So, and then with my clients, especially my online clients, because those are the ones that I have year round.

[00:38:55] But the, I have names for oftentimes the emphasis of this season. And this is what we're going to be really going for. It's always mostly speed and power related because that's what a lot of people are seeking who trying to be. I have a few like runners and people are trying to go get to through buds and that type of thing. Special forces trainees. So that's a little different. But within the speed power room, I have different emphasis for each block. And I've, I've seen really, really good results. The feedback has been phenomenal on that.

[00:39:25] Yeah. It's, it's kind of put so much more purpose behind what you do, you know, besides just trying to improve your back squat number or whatever. And maybe like, it's just, and I, I've been, I've, I've lived in both worlds, right? Where like, obviously as a CrossFit person, like you're so focused on metrics, right? You just want to, you'll do anything for, you know, a 20 second improvement in your free time. You will, you will kill yourself for no, for what? I was like, I'm never going to be going to the regionals. I'm never going to be a great. I don't know why you do it.

[00:39:51] And I think for challenge, you know, for, for people who are coaches and PTs and, you know, or gym operators or, you know, all this stuff, the challenge here is to really communicate and uncover what these things are that are meaningful to people and help them find, as you say, their richness in their physical expression. Right. That's the challenge. Right. Because it's not easy for a lot of people, you know, you know, I don't think people, most people are like, you know, me, Joel, or it's okay.

[00:40:20] I was, I was raised athletically. It was important to me. It still is. Physical movement is, is such a core pillar of my life. A lot of people just never were, you never, we're blessed to have that. A lot of people haven't had it. So teaching people and showing them like, Hey, there's a, there's an athlete in here somewhere. Right. We just got to uncover it and, and encourage them and urge them along that path. That's, I guess is the, that's why we'll never, we'll never be taken over by AI. You can't do that. Right. It's, it's a very human thing. And that's, that's the beauty of coaching and the art of coaching.

[00:40:50] And I, I love so much. So as we kind of wrap this thing up, I mean, what are, what are any final words of advice for coaches and operators out there about, you know, what they can be doing fundamentally to, to help people age athletically in this world of confluted longevity terms? Yeah. I think play is a must. So it'd be at the first five or 10 minutes of your session, or maybe having, you know, having some sort of play-based activity. Watch, you can watch me, you know, portal videos, or there's a lot of people who Austin Yoakam is awesome.

[00:41:19] His gym is very play-based. Just Yoakam strength. So just get a Frank Frenzich, getting ideas from those individuals on some just warmup based games and tests and see how your group does. And chances are they will love it. And also the idea, I think the idea of having like field day type days as well, like where it's a little more competitive versus just get this time, do this thing. You know, I know that can exist within, you know, you have little mini competitions and stuff like that, but stuff that actually is more athletic, like even tug of war, bust out

[00:41:48] the tug of war at the end. You'll see what you will see so much just by something that it's, you feel the rope and you feel the other team and, and those types or, or, you know, anything like that is great. And then I, I thought of mine too. I don't want to go too far off on this, but I do think there'd be some sort of interesting seasonal. If we could almost hit all agree and be like, okay, maybe in the fall, we're going to do like Spartan race training and the winter's high rocks and the spring's CrossFit. And then the summer, I know Tim Riley's got something called Apex coming. That's getting bigger.

[00:42:17] Chris Bumsfeld has like similar that he's doing, but it's basically like lifting, sprinting, jumping out outputs. Like, so it's like that purifier. And just, I think those ideas of how can we shift those, those items. And honestly, people are going to shine at different pieces of that spectrum. You're going to have the more endurance type people. Oh yeah. Spartan type race. Dude, this is awesome. This is my jam. I'm so good at this, right? I was trying so hard to get my clean, you know, this high and I'm so good at this thing.

[00:42:44] It's just nice to have outcomes that show people what they're good at versus, you know, maybe someone's more sprint oriented. I was doing all that running and I was terrible at it. Now I get to run the 40 and this is amazing. You know, like this having opportunities for people to showcase their individual abilities and expressions. I think we shove people in little boxes too often. So just being able to have something that can showcase what makes us great athletically as an individual, I think is a really good thing. So yeah, I would just leave and play more with your kids.

[00:43:13] If you have kids, play with your kids or your neighbors, you know, throw frisbee around, just find ways to infuse that in your life. I think we all need a little bit more of it. Yeah. Well said, man. Well said. We'll leave it there. So just fly sports, just dash fly dash sports.com is your website. We'll put it over course in the notes, but where else would you like people to go, man? If they want to touch you or follow you, what's your go-to spots? Yeah. Well, love it or hate it with Instagram. I, you know, however much you can learn in a 90 second video.

[00:43:41] Most people probably follow me through my Instagram account, which is also just fly sports. And I send a newsletter out every week, a lot of more sports performance, speed power topics, but also a lot of social kind of philosophical ideas. I have a newsletter. You could find it just fly sports.com or the Instagram account. And that's one of the best ways to keep up with that. I have a podcast, just like records podcast as well. Great podcast. Excellent work. Excellent work. Right on, man. So you're not hard to find basically. Let's list for the ballot.

[00:44:10] Dude, thank you so much. It's been a really fun conversation and, you know, it inspired me, I think to tweak a few things in my life as well. So yeah, really great stuff. Ladies and gentlemen, Joel Smith. Thank you, Eric. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Fitness. If you did, I'm going to ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it.

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[00:45:05] You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.