Planet Fitness, UFIT & Orange Theory Insider JJ Creegan on What's Really Working in Fitness Right Now

You can't ever save a cancellation. You can only prevent it. Once someone's made the decision to move on, they've made the decision. You can create an alumni network. You can make them still feel part of your community 10 days in their first 10 visits within the first 60 days and increase their likelihood of being a member by 50% a year from now. But no AI tool is going to help you optimize your experience to keep members coming back. That's your team. That's your technology. That's the way we communicate. That's your team's values. That's the vision for your brand. That's how you differentiate it.

Hey friends, today's episode is proudly brought to you by eGym. The fitness industry is entering into an exciting new era. One filled with smarter technology and clearer paths to wellness. We are finally seeing the potential for deeper connections and more effective, data-driven wellness results for everyone involved. That's operators, trainers, and members alike. EGI is at the heart of this shift, building the ecosystem for health. By connecting their smart strength equipment to the entire fitness floor, members stay motivated and engaged. And with AI-generated training plans, trainers are free to focus on what matters the most: building relationships with their clients. EGM is turning fitness into a measurable, repeatable, and actionable science. Now what really excites me about e-Gym is that they are democratizing fitness. They're making gyms accessible to everyone. And eGym is listening to what the market wants. With their newest longevity training program, operators are primed to meet the evolving needs of the modern gym goers. Their mission is simple shift the healthcare landscape from repair to proactive prevention. It's time for progress that actually counts. See how they do it at eGym.com. That is egym.com. All right. JJ Kriegan, welcome to the Future of Fitness. Thanks, Eric. It's very exciting, man. I've I've seen your um name and likeness, as uh as the kids say nowadays, across the industry for many years. So it's it's a thrill to get you on here. And you know, let's kick it off with a bang, man. You've been around the industry forever. We'll get into your background, I'm sure, throughout this interview. But we're sitting here at kind of midpoint of 2026 in this recording, and you know, there's a lot of different storylines going across the industry. There's a lot of data flowing out. I just reviewed uh the quarterly reports for Q1. I'm gonna be talking about those later today on actually the report with Alex and Juliet. But HVLP seems to be booming, right? There's a K-shaped economy seems to be forming. Boutique, I still haven't heard a solid fix on like, is it headwinds? Are they doing well? I'll call like the super uh HVLP, which is you know, like the planet fitness seems to be doing really well, although they kind of missed their January numbers, right? They they were a little disappointing there. So, from your perspective, out of all this operating, because you worked across so many different sectors in the industry, who's doing well, who's doing not, who you excited for, who you little worried about.

I think there's a lot of good happening, and I think we all need to acknowledge the world's a complicated place these days. There's a lot happening across the globe, and and everything that happens in the world trickles down to every business and and and and every consumer and the experience we deliver, both staff, ownership, management, customers. I think today, an obvious thing that is reminiscent of my beginnings in HBLP is the challenges with the economy and inflation. And so when I look at the growth of Planet Fitness that I first experienced, or when we launched GFIT and began the growth trajectory of that brand, it was in 2008, uh, right around the last recession, and real estate became cheaper and you know, spending became tighter. And so I think you definitely see the momentum of the cost impacting consumers, and that's a wave that HDLP and value-based experiences in the fitness industry can leverage. But then the economy bifurcates, and there's a lot of a big delta between the haves and the have nots. And so you also see the other extreme of the consumers with the disposable income really leaning into the optimization and blurring the lines between fitness, nutrition, medical, and really driving wellness and the biohacking. I think all of it will come together and converge. The toughest place to be at this time is in the middle. And I think you can really differentiate yourself in the middle if the quality of your experience delivers that. But you see premium brands like a lifetime continuing to increase their pricing and continuing to expand their offerings, but then HVLP continues to just get bigger and tighter on who they are, um, but really maximizing the value they deliver.

Interesting, man. So that that K-shaped economy thing keeps coming up uh often. And, you know, I've I've talked about it in a couple different podcasts, but how did you how would you define that if you're sitting and talking to somebody, you know, over coffee? Like how would you describe a K-shaped economy to people?

Yeah, I I think it's interesting. On one hand, you know, when I first wanted to get my first gym membership, my parents wouldn't allow me. I was in high school because going to the gym was just for, you know, big guys wanting to be on steroids. Now, I definitely wanted to be huge. It definitely appealed to me at the time. It was right. Okay. All right. But then you fast forward to today, you know, I'm 40, I have young kids, and my kids are growing up in an environment where mom does yoga, dad lifts weights, dad works in the fitness industry, and their awareness is so much larger than it was before. And so you have the younger generations really driving a lot of momentum and demand and are really pushing the industry forward because they want to optimize their health. They want to be active, they want to be social, and you can read about that. But, you know, not every 22-year-old can afford a $300 per month membership. And truth, not every 45-year-old can afford a $300 membership. And so you have people that are chasing fitness, they want to do it in an affordable and an approachable way. And so that's one thing. In addition to that, you have tons of apps and digital resources that can help you optimize your health for 10, 20, $100 per month at home without having to ever leave the house. On the flip side, once you're in fitness and it becomes part of who you are, we're we we know the concept of plateaus, but you're always trying to break through a plateau. And that could be in how you train, it could be the variety of experiences you're chasing after. It could be, you know, biohacking and labs and optimizing your health and wellness. And so I think you have the the extremes that converge where people were spending is tight and they're trying to optimize what they can do personally. On the flip side, those that have the disposable income just want to ingest more. And that creates this flywheel effect where, you know, medical businesses can support fitness and wellness, nutrition can come on top of it. Whoop can take your $300 a month or $300 a year subscription and add in labs and add in diagnostics and all these different avenues, but it's really the bifurcation of both experience and investment.

You know, like in the high end of the market, like we look at lifetime, right? Because it's easy their numbers are transparent. They're public, right? So it's kind of it's a good example to see how people are doing on the highest end. And I just worry, I mean, you're a student of business, right? Like, is this dangerous to have people who have a lot of money paying for the majority of the services? Like, you know, how how stable is that? Have we seen this over history where it's like, okay, we had a K-shaped economy and XYZ happened like things fell or things grew or things just evened out nicely? Like, what do you how how shaky is the ground we're on right now?

Yeah, I I don't know if my strength is on economics. And so I'll probably uh plead the fifth on some of that question. No one listens anyway. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Yeah. But I think when you when you look at what's happened in fitness and wellness, everything starts with professional athletics. And the way athletes and professionals are optimizing their own performance, the way that they're training, the hacks that they're bringing into in the off-season of the NFL to recover, to improve performance, right? I mean, think about how cryotherapy is probably, or excuse me, um, cold plunges and cryotherapy are more popular today than they ever were. Athletics and professional athletes have been pursuing this for years. I mean, we've seen in every sports movie an athlete after the game get into a nice.

Yeah. Right.

Right. And but and today we're being anyone on Instagram is being served ads to buy a cold plunge and put it in your backyard. And so I think science has seen it continues to lean into optimizing the economies of it and the athletes and the sports and and all these other things that drive and contribute to, you know, really the economy. And if you think about sports themselves and just recreation, and everything that an athlete does, somewhere between five to 15 years later, starts to penetrate Gen Pop. And I think today, because of the speed at which information and technology moves out there, it makes it more and more approachable. And what it took to manufacture a cold plunge 10 years ago and go to market strategy is, I don't know, cut into a tenth, the 15th percent of the time today, it is really shaping some of what's occurring. And then, you know, just information. And that drives interest and that drives awareness and engagement and purchasing.

It's it's it's an interesting time too. And I I the consumer is so educated now, right, on health and wellness. And they seem hungry for more. I mean, even just in the simple medium of podcasts, you look at how many podcasts are about our consumer health and wellness. I mean, that's the world I live in. I can tell you there's a lot, and there's something for every specific niche that you want in consumer health and wellness, right? Like, are you a 40-year-old dad who likes to stay active? There's a podcast specifically for that, right? You know, are you are you perimetapause? Are you pre-menopause? Like woman who is into endurance, right? There is a podcast for that. GLP1. So there is a podcast, there's a lot of podcasts specifically for that. So there's like all these niches that people can self-educate. And I think, and then of course, you got the pocket expert of you know, artificial intelligence and LLMs, where people can just go ask any question they want and any time of day. It's never going to give you a snark, you know, snarky answer. It's always going to give you an honest or what it thinks is an honest answer with no judgment. So it's a really interesting time for that. And I think that is part of the reason that we're seeing this really strong evolution of what we would say is the member experience. I know this is something that's really big for you, and it's big for me too. And last year, I'll set the table and then I'll let you kind of paint the vision here, JJ. But last year, I think when we talked about AI and fitness, it was a lot about okay, how do we just predict churn? Right. Okay, someone's gonna turn in the next two or three weeks. Let's send them a text message or call them. This year it's evolved to something so much more, which is like how do we extrapolate a member experience from day one all the way through a complete life cycle of a client and keep them engaged in all these times? And like you said, there's so many different ways that we can do that through, you know, testing and you know, programming and community aspects, you know, really finding their interests and driving a really nice personalized journey for them. So when you look at what's going to be successful in member experience, what are the critical things that you think operators need to be thinking about?

I think my first comment is the fitness industry itself as operators has always been data rich. If you compare a gym 15, 20 years ago, had, you know, a lot of them had your driver's license, your home address, your phone number. We used to collect Social Security numbers back in the day. It was so data rich compared to traditional retail, but was so knowledge poor. And I think not a ton has changed. The foundation of knowledge for business and consumers has elevated. But real life story, I have 10-year-old twins, and my daughter brought home a plant that she grew in her fourth grade garden at school and has basically killed it for three nights in a row based off the advice that Chat GPT has given her. And that is happening across every business today. I mean, it's made a mess of my patio, but it's a truth, and I'm getting screen alert. Give me more time on ChatGPT, and I just see a plant dying because it's infested with something that it's not truly infested with. And I think the answer is in fitness, or really most experiential businesses, because that's what fitness is, it's a product, a service that you have to engage with and experience. The only metric that matters is really frequency. Frequency of visit is what drives results. Frequency of visit is what defines value. When you are paying for a membership that you're not using and you're out in your community at a get together, at a happy hour, or at a high rocks, and someone's like, Oh, I'm looking for a new gym. The person who doesn't go to their gym doesn't promote it. Only the person that shows up to their facility ever contributes to word of mouth for it. And once again, I remember at UFIT, we did the analysis very early on before AI existed, and we knew that if we could get a member into our facility within 10 days in their first 10 visits within the first 60 days, it increased their likelihood of being a member by 50% a year from now. Just 10 visits 10 visits in 60 days. In 60 days. Yeah. And I think those lessons still exist. Now, in my opinion, you can't ever save a cancellation. You can only prevent it. Once someone's made up the decision to move on, they've made the decision. You can create an alumni network. You can make them still feel part of your community. But no AI tool is going to help you optimize your experience to keep members coming back. That's your team, that's your technology, that's the way we communicate, that's your team's values, that's a vision for your brand. That's how you differentiate it. And yes, you can take these tools to help you optimize that. But all this technology is backward looking. It grows off of what already exists, not what is unique. And so I think for operators, for entrepreneurs, building a team, a vision, a strategy that is unique. Yes, you can leverage these tools to do it faster. Yes, you can brainstorm it. But that is what makes things special. So when I think about the technology today, it's about adding efficiency to your business. It's about, you know, a digital thought partner to push back on. And you can all these different ways you can build a persona. But at the end of the day, it comes down to the experience that is delivered to your customers and how often they engage with that.

Okay. Yeah, I want to, I want to get back to unique vision and what that means to you, maybe some examples. But I want to go back to another thing before that. You said, um, I think you said we're data rich, but we're knowledge poor. Yes. What do you mean by knowledge poor?

And it's changing, but once you know all this information about who your consumer is and who your customers are, and like, okay, let's step back. You own a gym, I own a gym, boutique finished, whatever it is. We each have a thousand members. We have the same access to information for those thousand members. You have their address, I have their address. You can pull in a CRM system that's going to give you insights on their social media. You can design psychographics and all of these things. You have their visit history, I have their visit history. The difference is some people are investing in the tools and technology to harness this data and to take it from, you know, data to insights and insights to action. Others aren't. But the insights that are coming out of it are commoditized in today's world. I mean, how many brands are taking all their consumer visit history, loading it into Claude and saying, help me design a customer journey? You're paying for the same hundred dollars per month membership to Claude that I am to do this. But once again, how do you differentiate yourself between the brand down the street that is doing the same analysis or has the same member management tool or is being pitched by the same companies to outperform and to differentiate? Now we have way more day knowledge today than we did, you know. I sold my first gym membership in 2000, 26 years ago when in high school. Way smarter today, but it's still the same level of it's the same table stakes across the board, just elevated.

So that's the key question, right? How do you, if everyone has the same data, right? And like you mentioned, those two you and I have two gyms, thousand people each, same data. How do you create a unique experience, right? That's tailored to the particular consumer you want. I mean, that that's the billion dollar question, right? Like, how do you go about that? Do you have like a process for that, or do you how do you walk people through as a fractional executive, as your current role is?

Like, how do you walk people through that that's the design of the experience, right? I mean, you think about fitness in itself. What's the difference between your treadmill, my treadmill, your dumbbell, my dumbbell? It's all the same. The equipment is commoditized. How the experience is designed internally, the touch points with the customer, how your team communicates with your customer. That is what the delta is. I remember, you know, during my time at Orange Theory, um, global business spanned across over 20 countries. And we would visit smaller markets or different countries. And a franchisee would occasionally say, Well, it doesn't work here. We don't have the same level of brand awareness in, let's call it Spain as you do in Florida, where the brand initiated. But in every one of those countries, there's a warehouse facility that's owned and operated by one individual delivering a workout that has an amazing following and brand with zero brand awareness, zero brand fund, zero local marketing, but because the experience connects with the customer, the team continues to ring the bell of what that vision leaned into that experience is, and it creates the flywheel effect. And once again, the facility's got to be nice, the coach has got to be nice, the workouts got to deliver results, but it's everything that's layered on the foundation of data that is the differentiator. And you can even see within franchise brands, right? There's going to be an F45 that's completely on fire and growing and being successful. And then the same state, potentially even the same town, there's one down the street that's failing.

It's uh it's it's really see, I think this is the real fun part of being an operator, right? It's it's challenging. It's like, how do you take your unique market, your unique customer that you want, your desired customer, and create that experience so that you know it becomes a local viral phenomenon, right? It's like that, that is like the the beauty and the fun and the art of entrepreneurship. And I think that's what separates a lot of times a business owner and an entrepreneur, like entrepreneur, right? Like I've always had this this difference. Like I remember a coach when I was younger when I was swimming. He's like, Eric, there's there's two types. There's swimmers and then there's athletes that swim, right? And I was like, and then I got I'm like, I want to be the other one. I want to be an athlete that swims, right? I want to be able to do all these things. And I think we see that like in business. There's like people who, you know, are are business owners, and then there's entrepreneurs who own businesses. And I think that's probably who you like to work with the most. But can you, when you see that difference, or do you agree with that number one? And when you see it, can you identify it quickly with operators?

Yeah, I I think, you know, for me, I've I've always I've been part of founding teams for businesses, but I've never launched a business that was solely my idea, right? I've never delivered that experience. And so, you know, maybe it's because I've played a guitar and to create great music, you always need a band around you and someone to write the songs and to orchestrate that. And I feel like I've been a great partner to those people throughout my career. I think there's the people who have the great vision, they have the great idea, and they can really be those disruptors and find a white space. And you can see that with, you know, really all three brands that I've worked with, whether it be Planet Fitness, when there were less than 30 locations, and I started that brand or UFIT there from the founding team and Orange Theory, which really created the boutique fitness moment and movement in the industry from from my perspective at least. And those founders had this vision for something that was different. And maybe it was multiple people, but I think the those are unique creatives. Those are true visionaries and entrepreneurs that can see that white space and that gap. But then there has to be the team around them. And I think where I've always been a great partner is the, you know, the people, the processes, the systems, and the execution. And I think the the challenge for a lot of visionaries and entrepreneurs is they're creatives. So the boring things are frustrating to them. But if you and I work together, or if I helped you operate your business and we're, you know, doing our weekly performance meeting, it's the same agenda every week. It is the most boring meeting ever because we have to talk about the same three to five things every single week, whether we're on track or off track. And I think that's the challenge. You know, whether it be a brand that's created and is independent or someone who loves fitness and chooses to become a franchisee because you're passionate about it and you are a customer or you are a coach. But the accountability, the processes, the systems, and the coaching are which I'm really great at and where I thrive. The creation of a concept, I can give you feedback and I can add momentum and I can add some spice to that. But that's not my strength. Yeah.

See, I would argue that someone like you is equal to or more important than the actual visionary because actualizing, I think there's a lot of people out there. I do this all the time. I could come up with like three or four ideas per week, right? That I'm like, ah, this is actually, I should do this, right? This should follow up on this. But I'd like, and that's where my my business partner, Shannon, uh, is so great because she can take that, put in individual, help with the operations and build around it. And I think people like you, man, are are just I'm not saying I'm like a visionary, but I'm definitely more on the creative side. And when like people like you are so incredibly valuable because we get lost, dude. We'll we'll get lost really easily. Like, as soon as things get from, okay, we're building to okay, now we're just gonna maintain this pace for the next five years and kind of just slightly tweak everything, I go nuts. I lose my mind, right? It's like that fulfillment phase and that weekly meetings and all that stuff is is really it's it's an interesting thing once you get into the dynamics of different different companies. And I'm sure like as you work with more and more companies in your new fractional role, you probably get to see that more often.

Yeah. I mean, look, it takes two to ten go. Yeah. Right. And it takes more than two to build the team and to build a business. And even in the world today, you know, like I'm a I'm a great fractional COO or fractional CEO or full-time in either one of those. Like I'm great there. I'm a horrible regional manager or market leader in today's world, right? I've spent, you know, the past 10, 15 years in boardrooms and driving the executional and operational strategy and vision for a business to perform. My team who coaches small business operators are phenomenal at that. They know how to drive the accountability and coach the ground level on the front lines. And so it takes an army to grow a business and specialties that need. Area, you also don't ever want me to coach a class and be the worst class ever.

You know, one thing I I want to ask you and make sure we get into is like because we talked in the in the opening about different categories and how they're doing. I hear a lot of mixed, I'm getting a lot of mixed signals on boutique specifically. Like if you're going to take a broad stroke, like and say how, and I know great operators, you know, solid cores, they're always going to be great, right? But you know, then on the other end, you know, there was a big headline in Expo not too long ago with the that got slapped with a pretty big fine. You know, I'm not saying they're bad operators, but you know, that's just news. How do you think categorically boutique is doing right now? Because I mean, obviously at Orange Theory, you have a you have a pretty deep knowledge there.

I love boutique fitness. I I think first having you know spent you know 20 years in big box gyms and the last six or seven, a lot of time in boutique. I think there's a lot of similarities. The only real difference is the number of members. The PLs can look very similar, the financials, the EPITA margins, a lot of the team is very similar. Obviously, boutique is more concentrated. I think what is in boutique fitness is to differentiate, right? You're building a clash, you're building an experience, and yes, there can be the same dumbbells and the same rowers and skiers and hey friends.

Artificial intelligence is moving faster than most of us can keep up with. That's no secret. We can all feel it. The pressure to keep up is very, very real. And no, I'll get to that next week is not a strategy. So I am proud to say that our presenting sponsor is Perfect Gym. The people building tomorrow's infrastructure for gym and health club operators. I have sat down to talk to thousands of leaders across the fitness industry, and one theme keeps coming up. The right tech can make or break your business. Perfect Gym isn't just another management system. They are part of the Sports Alliance Group that is Europe's leading fitness software company, and it's now all in on the US market. So in the age of AI, being data ready isn't just a buzzword. It is critical for survival. This, my friends, is the disruption we have been waiting for. Member management, billing, scheduling, reporting, one platform, zero duct tape. Single studio or multi-location franchise that scales with you, zero growing pains, and their open API connects to over 50 technology and payment partners. No closed ecosystem, no getting boxed in, just better data, better decisions. PerfectGM is trusted by international fitness chains because they focus on what actually matters. That's operations, retention, and growth. The European market has spoken. Now it's America's turn. Check it out at us.perfectgim.com.

In my studio, as there is in yours, but the way that we curate the moment, whether it be music, lights, coaching, programming, that can be differentiated. And so I think that's really powerful. And, you know, I I've done work with brands like Alpha Fit Clubs, and there's also Club Athletics in New York, and they do a really great job at both delivering a community-focused, strength-based environment. And it's unique to them. I see Alpha Fit Clubs based out of New Jersey is really focused on progressive programming and really measuring their members' progress and showing that from a strength and conditioning perspective. And Club Athletic and Dane and his team there are really focused on the community aspect and creating these squads, both boutique fitness, both growing, both thriving. I think what's tough in fitness is the age of your product. It's particularly if you're a single modality like a yoga or spin, those experiences go in and out of popularity. And you can see it with some of the changes at Soul Cycle, and that's tough. And you can see that at Cycle Bar. But at the end of the day, I think with Boutique Fitness, if you've maintained a manageable level of growth and you continue to execute well and you continue to lean into consumers and you can generate leads, you can generate interest, you can convert them, you can deliver a great experience, you can still be successful. But the age of a product in fitness is tough. On the flip side, big box gyms are kind of the same, right? Like, what's the difference between an HVLP gym chain A versus B? There's, you know, three to five major manufacturers of treadmills and strength equipment and rowers, and it's all in a big room, and some offer pools and some offer basketball. So I definitely think boutique fitness is a place that will continue to grow, but it will go in and out of popularity dependent on the modality. I think strength and cardi will always stay there. But you just read the news recently that, you know, group like JetSet Pilates just signed their 400th license agreement. And it's a brand that has 60 locations today and will open over 150 units this year. Great operators will drive interest and awareness and their execution will keep them there. And I think my last piece on this is loyalty is fake. It does not exist in today's world. It's about relevancy. And if your brand, product, and experience are relevant to consumers, you will continue to be there. But if you try to rely on loyalty, you're gonna die.

Yeah. Strong statement, man. What about Pilates? Is it uh are we gonna see a plateau anytime soon? Or you think this thing's just gonna keep going forever and ever and ever?

I mean, it's already been there forever, forever and forever. That's crazy.

I keep saying, I keep saying it's plateaued, but I'm like, and then it keeps going. I'm like, this is incredible.

But it's not a new modality, right? It's been there forever, it's always existed. There's always been diehard fans. I think what will be tough is that today it's very fragmented. I mean, you have Club Pilates, which is the behemoth in the space. And then once you get below them, everyone else is in the hundreds or the 50s or the 10s and trying to grow. And so I think it's definitely ripe for consolidation opportunities, and it's definitely ripe for someone who can differentiate and execute to survive the wave. Those that are just delivering a reformer Pilates class won't make it. And I think Solid Gore is a great brand, and I think Jetset is doing great things, and there's independent groups in like the LA area, like Avenir Pilates that deliver a great experience and like they will continue to thrive. But you know, you have to be different than the one that's down the street.

Yeah, well said. I know something that uh you're really keen on is creating the member experience and the wellness experience for the next generation, right? I I uh in my time so far in the industry, I feel like this is the biggest gap or differentiation between generations and what they want, right? Like they they it just seems very different. I mean, just the alcohol consumption number one is is so crazy. Like people in their 20s just they're not drinking booze anymore. In my 20s, very different, you know. So it's like you're you're seeing this. So how how do we be a little bit forward-thinking and start creating the member experience, the wellness experience for the for this next generation?

I mean, I don't think you can. I think they're gonna create it for themselves, right? And you know, in addition to you know, every article on alcohol consumption should probably be in a parallel article about THC or cannabis and all these other things that have changed around it, and is just the money shifting and and our habits shifting from, you know, a can of beer to a gummy at a concert, right? Like all these things are out there and are changing it. I think one thing that is clear is that wearable's data recovery and the information around that are giving both the mature and the younger population greater visibility. This is that, you know, I have the data. Am I leveraging knowledge from it that can change my behavior? Right. And and look, I consider myself to be relatively healthy. I sleep seven and a half hours every night. I wake up at 4:45, I exercise. I like to drink twice a week. And I every time that I do it, I want to throw my whoop against the wall because it tells me I'm not recovered and I shouldn't do anything today, whether it be one beer or three. But I think that information is there and I think it's going to shape habits, just like GLP1 medications are shaping, you know, food and grocery and restaurant trends. And just what is great about this moment is that the awareness and connection across our society, at least here in the US and partially globally, fitness and wellness is top of mind. The downside of it is still only 25% of the US population are members of a fitness center. Now it's greater in some countries and it's worse in others. So even with all of this, 75 of adults in the US are not engaging in fitness. Yeah. And so look, if that means you're not drinking alcohol and you're going for walks, great, you're that much healthier, healthier. The only thing that workout that matters is workout that you do. But I do think the next generation is going to be one of the, you know, my kids, even the, you know, Gen Zs today, there's very little negative stereotypes around fitness, nutrition, activity, you know, biohacking, your labs, all this visibility is going to be available to them at the same time to make smart decisions. And that will shape the economy and it will shape the business. On the flip side, I think the pendulum will eventually swing to people who are like, this is way too much information. It's confusing and overwhelming. And I just want to live. But I think both sides of the coin will be true for some.

Yeah, interesting. You know, fitness is a term that's been around for a long time. Wellness, I think, hasn't it's kind of soft in in definition, right? It's like uh well-being or wellness. And then we have health, right? So we're looking for this integration. How does the fitness industry integrate into the preventative healthcare scheme, moving into the future? Um, and I was talking to Eddie Hertzmann from Athletech about this. And we're like, do we need a rebrand or do we need to like rethink about how we position ourselves or how we talk to ourselves about who we are within this whole health paradigm? Right. I feel like there's a shift. We just haven't really like labeled it or we haven't come to a cohesive understanding within ourselves as a community or as an industry that, like, hey, we're more than fitness now. Like, you know, that that's a term. We we can lead with it still, but we have to kind of start talking different internally because we still talk about the same shit. Right. But here we have this huge opportunity. Like, we can now integrate in healthcare through data, right? Through a lot of different ways that we can we can do it. So when you look at the evolution of our industry right now, do you think we're we're up for a rebrand overall, or at least a way we we talk internally?

I mean, I use the term wellness and and and maybe it does need to be called something different, but you know, there's like multiple facets to it from movement to nutrition to you know mindfulness to sleep and recovery, um, and and and medical care. I think one thing that's really interesting. I was listening to a podcast from Peter Tia and his drive podcast, and you know, very research driven. And they were talking about something with women's hormone health and how the entire generation of doctors that exist today were not educated on this science of it. And I think that's part of what we're dealing with in certain places is that the healthcare system in itself, outside of top tier and and those that had the money to invest in it, is just years behind on research because of the hamster wheel of medical care. And I think that's a challenge because I can go to my doctor and and and I remember when I went to my primary care physician a couple of years ago and said, like, you know, I'd recently turned 40. I'm in my late 30s of the time. Like, hey, I want to get my testosterone levels tested. And he says to me, why? And I said, Well, I want to know where they're at and if they change and if I need to do anything about it. And his exact comment was, well, like, look at you. Your testosterone is probably fine.

If I gave you the same conversation, yes.

And and if I gave you your results and the number didn't match up to what you expect, what would you do with that? And honestly, the argument worked for me at the time, but me knowing where I'm going, me being able to drive early intervention, me trying to, you know, really optimize my life is something that's interesting. So I definitely engaged with a different medical practice and one that is more proactive for me. So I think what's happening today is innovation is meeting the intersection of fitness and clinical care. And it's starting to happen. It's expensive in most places, but there's tons of telemedicine opportunities to get better support there. And look, you can get your news and data from an Instagram account or from research that's out there or from quad. But I think the intersection is starting to happen to connect the two dots. And I think that will have meaningful impacts on you know current and future generations, both health span and lifespan. And I believe it will be powerful for society as a whole. If I'm living longer, if I'm able to do more things, I'm contributing to the economy and contributing to the society. There's just so much of a flywheel effect that comes from that. I think we're at the intersection of those moments today.

I totally agree. And it's so funny because I had that conversation with my doctor a while ago. I'm like, hey, I want to get my T levels checked. And he's like, Well, why? You have a your beard, right? You're obviously able to hold muscle mass. And I'm like, Yeah, but I just I just want to know, dude. And he's like basically assuming I was gonna get on TRT. And I'm like, well, you know, there is a lot of things you can do other than TRT to optimize, right? Like, I just want to know where I'm at. And then it was like, I don't know, it's the same conversation over and over again.

Yeah. Two years later, my doctor's like, what supplement do you take? Yeah.

Right. Yeah, he had asked me too. He's like, and I I was not, I wasn't doing TRT. And he's like, Well, you know, I gained some weight, like good weight, I think. And you know, I just changed a couple lives. I was started sleeping more. And he's like, Are you are you on TRT? I'm like, no. Well, what if I was? Like, leave me alone, dude. Uh so anyway, uh, let's go back to an intersection because I think this is this is the most exciting thing for me right now within our industry is this trend line, this intersection of healthcare and fitness. And, you know, there's people who are building it, right? There's, you know, Jim Laval and Miora, there's Dr. Glory winners and YMCA. They're they're building their own. And then you get a lot of really cool uh concepts out there that are, you know, small but growing. So, you know, Monarch Athletic Club or Carbon World Health or Ranfone Training Systems or Stat Wellness, who else? And then there's other ones that are kind of doing a different model and trying to do more of an integration. So, you know, Corb Health is doing coming out from a telemedicine side, right? Partnership with gyms. Eric Casaguri from Serotonin Centers is about to launch his um, I think it's Slim, or he changed the name to Active. So it's like they're putting these clinics inside of health clubs wherever they have extra space, right? And they're managing it all. So it's like all of these really cool things that are happening right now if people have their eyes open. Is there any specifically these types of models that you look at, you're like, okay, I think they're doing it right. I think they got a good formula here.

I haven't spent um in the kind of accessible market. I I think there's really high-end experiences that do this well. I think my caution for the industry and consumers would be are you engaging with someone who's belling selling a product or are they selling a service? And if the service is one-dimensional, that we do this therapy, they're selling a product because there's a bias in the business model versus a consultative solution where they're gonna look in the whole gamut of what's going on with Eric or what's going on with Mary or what's going on with JJ and providing a unique and proactive recommendation. And I think that that's the moment that we're in between, right? There's males that think they need to be on TRT and hormone replacement therapy. And maybe they do, but they're seeking a single product and a solution versus understanding the underlying, you know, uh interworkings of their body and their hormones to understand what needs to be changed. And I think that's where the intersection of medical care is starting to come into play. And so um I think there's great operators, I think there's great providers. And I would just say a consumer, are you getting a consultation on your whole health? Are you getting sold a solution to a problem you may have? And so if I owned a facility, I would want to make sure I'm partnering with someone that isn't isolated in their offering and is really providing a consultation and a unique prescription to my customer base. Yeah.

Well said. Very diplomatic. Well said. Let me pose this question to you, JJ. If if an investor came to you with a lot of money and was like, JJ, we want you to open JJ's gym, right? You got full control, right? This is from concept to to to scale. What what would you do? What would that JJ's gym look like right now?

First, I'd want to open a rock climbing gym near my house because that's really what I'm looking for. And the closest one is 45 minutes away, and it's great, but I think I could do it better and my kids love to climb and I love the experience of it. So that would be the first thing that I would do, and I think it would do really well with it when I have brand name ideas and everything. So let me know if you're looking to invest. I just can't find the real estate. So that'd be the first thing I would do. I I think, like once again, for me, I would find the thought leaders and the science leaders in probably the intersection of what I'm talking about. And I I could not design a fitness program for the life of me that's going to differentiate. But I would want to find a thought leader for that. I would want to find a thought leader to partner with from a medical perspective and probably a nutrition perspective and make sure that we build an ecosystem and an offering that puts the customer at the center the center of all these facets of wellness and really can deliver it. I think that to do it well today, it has to be a very premium product and you have to have a really qualified team. Um, and there's groups out there that are doing this today, and I love it, and I'm super impressed by them. Um, but I think that's where I would want to go. And I think it's something where the market will demand in the future, in addition to opening a rock climbing gym that integrates recovery and wellness and things like that in it too.

Yeah. And JJ Jim is not a bad name, really. It's not bad.

Yeah. But my son would love it. I'm JJ the third, he's JJ the fourth, so he'd really be all bad. Yes. That's awesome.

So, JJ, last last question I always ask people here is like, what do you need help with? So if you know people in the industry are listening to this, and um, you know, what would you like to hear from people about?

Yeah, I mean, I think uh I just love connecting and networking. And I have my perspective. I've shared a lot of that today, and there's many thoughts that I've shared that are probably flawed. And there's many thoughts that people have alternative perspectives on. And I think uh that disagreement, that collaboration, that debate is where growth happens. So if you agree with what I said, I'd love to talk to you about it. If you disagree, I'd love to talk to you about it. At the same time, if you're a founder of a business or a franchisee or a small business owner of one to three units, that's the work that my team and I do today is helping emerging brands grow and scale and then help owners and operators optimize their business performance and their execution. So happy to talk to anyone and anyone at any time.

Yeah. Uh one more question. What is uh what has been over the last five years, what has been the most beneficial shift you've made in your own fitness and health?

Gotta be sleep. I mean, I think uh when I became a parent, I started working out in the morning versus the evening. But it hasn't been until the last couple of years that being in bed before 9.30 p.m. became really important for me because when I was in bed at 9.45, it was really tough and the alarm went off at 4:40 in the morning. But being in bed before 9.30, not not engaging with technology at that moment, allows me to wake up on time, allows me to have that hour of isolation and silence, which is the only hour I get before the family wakes up and calls begin. Um, and that allows me to stay on my routine of exercise. So I think my focus on sleep and that seven to seven and a half hours has been uh really game-changing for me.

Beautiful, wonderful. If people want to get a hold of you, follow you, uh, where would you like them to go?

I'm really active. My website is simply my name, jjkriegan.com. You can check me out there. I'm very active on LinkedIn or Instagram. So happy to communicate with anyone through on those channels and would love to start a dialogue.

Right on. JJ, thank you so much, man. It's been a lot of fun. Always enjoys having these conversations on Friday mornings because I go into my weekend feeling energized. So it's been a pleasure. I'm glad it uh I'm glad we got this done. It's it's been on my radar for a while.

Likewise, Eric. Appreciate the invite.

Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, JJ Creed.