Interpretation of Movement - Lee Taft

Own something. You don't have to be just okay at 10 things. I'd rather you own two things really well. And then, you know, in another six months, let's try to own one more thing. Now you own three things. And now you become known for something, and you can impact somebody's life in that area.

Hey Fitness fans, welcome back to the Future of Fitness podcast and interview series. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and this is episode number 115. I talked to Lee Tap. So Lee is most notably known for uh his expertise in speed agility and quickness. And you know, uh when I was prepping for this interview, I was talking to a couple of people um who were mentioned in this interview as well because they gave me some questions asked Lee. And uh was like, ah man, Lee, what a great guy. He's just a really nice guy, just a good guy, right? Kept hearing that over and over again. And you know, honestly, truth be told, you know, after interviewing, he's a great guy. He's an awesome dude. And I really enjoyed talking to him. And uh I wish I could talk to him all the time, but uh he's probably busy. So yeah, the all the things we talked about in here, um, obviously his expertise, but his story, right? How he started from almost nothing and built his way up to you know the expertise that he has achieved now and the notoriety that he has now. Uh it took time and perseverance and consistency and all of those big buzzwords that mean success. And uh I think it's great. Uh it's great for people to hear. And it's it's really cool of him to come on and share all that knowledge. So um before we get on to the interview, I want to read a review from DMT Cow. He or she says, Ericsson stifle commentary into the framework of the new generation fitness industry is a must. Listen, he knows his stuff and pulls in expert partners to complement his message. So thank you, man or woman. I really appreciate that. Um great, great knowledge. And uh, you know, if you want to have your review read on air, just go to iTunes, um, give us a subscribe, and leave us a nice review. And I will certainly get to it uh during one of the intros of our shows. And the other thing to do is you might want to check out our YouTube channel if you don't uh check it out already. We just kind of revamped it. Um, not kind of, we did. We revamped it, and it's uh it's a great place to uh listen for free. Um if you want to listen to it, you can of course watch the interviews. Uh there's a lot of nuance that happens watching us converse uh face to face, or not face to face, but over video that maybe you don't get uh in in audio format. So it's out there. Uh go over there and subscribe to us, that'd be great. It is the uh Fitness Marketing Alliance page, actually, and it's under the future of fitness. So without further ado, let's get into it. Number 115 with Lee Taft. Enjoy the ride. All right, and we're live. Lee Taft, welcome, man. Hey, Eric, it's so excited to be here. Thank you. Yeah, I'm uh I'm really excited. I um, you know, I've been referred to you by several people uh within my my network. And uh, you know, this today is gonna be kind of fun because I pulled some people in our fitness accelerator community, uh, our online Slack community of, you know, hey, I got Lee coming on in about an hour. And uh, you know, what questions would you have? And it's like ba-da-da-da. It like came out like within five minutes. And uh so they're they're excited for the interview. So we already know we'll have at least five people listening. Um, six if we count my mom. There you go.

There you go.

Um, Lee, if uh do me a favor for people maybe who don't know who you are, I know you've been in the industry for you know 30 some odd years. Just give us, you know, give us your your story, give us a little bit of your background and kind of um where you are today.

Yeah, yeah, thank you for letting me share that. I uh well I started as a um as a phys ed teacher. You know, I I grew up in a family, I'm the youngest of six, and um really, really big age disparity. And uh, you know, my parents have both passed many years ago. Um, they were much, much older. But my dad was actually a uh he was a phys ed teacher, but he in World War II, his responsibility was to train. Um, he was in Jacksonville, and before he was, you know, basically shipped over to Europe, they found out he was in uh fitness and physical education. So this, you know, obviously was in the 40s. And so I kind of gained that perspective, that background. He used to teach me and tell me the things he used to do with the, you know, with the you know, the men and women, you know, at that time in Jacksonville. So that was kind of my perspective. And then I grew up in a family of phys ed and family teachers, my brothers are phys ed, and they're all retired now, and eventually they were ADs, and one of them went into administration like my dad eventually did. And so that was kind of my background. And then, so I graduated with a phys ed degree, immediately went right into teaching phys ed, but I was also the head, uh, I was also a coach of football, basketball, track, and then eventually became the head coach of of uh those sports. And but I quickly realized what I wanted to do was more related to you know the fitness field. Um, I was kind of like the de facto strength coach back in 1989, you know, at the high school I was at. I I was being asked to train athletes back then. Parents would say, Hey, Lee, would you work with my kid a little bit? And you know, I it was kind of new to me to do it that way. Sure. Um, so from there I kind of just followed it. You know, I went back, I left teaching after two years to go full-time into my master's. I went to the United States Sports Academy in Alabama and from there got a strength and conditioning mentorship at Bolateries Tennis Academy, which is now, people would know it now as IMG. But uh when I was there, it was it was just uh, you know, Bolotaries, it was all tennis. So I was a speed and strength coach for that. And then I kind of chased the business. You know how it is. You know, fitness sometimes you chase it, it just wherever I went to the University of Kentucky, worked there a little bit, I went back down to another tennis academy at Palmer, and then I went kind of home to New York and uh opened up a business there back in the early 90s. I had one of the first, you know, speed academies, I guess you could call it, back then. And uh, you know, and that's what I've been doing ever since. I just kind of but over time I've become more of a consultant, just as you know, more people tend to want to, you know, ask you questions. And so it it leads into consulting. And that's what I've been doing a lot of now.

Yeah, awesome. It's um, yeah, so you have a almost a pedigree from this, you know, from from your whole family all the way through. Uh that's always really interesting. So it's just been in your it's just your world.

It is. It is, it is, and it's uh I've been uh, you know, they I I still remember this. It's funny because I have I have a daughter, or two dogs. Well, I have three kids, but I have a daughter that's a junior in college down in Florida, and then I have a senior daughter, and then um I have a 10-year-old son. It's funny, yeah, and he'll be 11 actually here in a in a in a few days. But I was telling him the other day, my dad used to set up in my in our garage, he'd put up, he'd write it out, and then he'd write in red and black, and he'd write out this little weight workout. And I was like my friends, and we had these old benches. Remember those benches that were, I mean, you could barely fit your spine on it, let alone your whole back. And then the the bars to hold the bench wasn't much wider than your shoulders. So if you didn't put it on, that thing was tipping. Well, yeah. He used to write out my things that I had to do and my whole routine, and I'd go out and do them and pull-ups and push-ups and then some bar stuff. And, you know, so I just fell in love with it back then because they did it, you know, they my brothers and my sisters were athletes as well and active, and my mom, so it was yeah, it was fun.

It was a good I remember um, you know, I first started, I think I I did my first my first set of bench press sometime in the 80s. And uh it was it was like this kit that my my friend had in his garage that he gotten from, I don't know, was it Kmart? These things came up. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was uh it was a trip and I was like, you know, I did one set and I was like, do I look different? Do I look different, right?

Yeah, you get you get balance training in with those old benches there, because you're falling off it if you don't have to be a little bit more.

Yeah, it's core stability, right? Yeah, uh that's really funny. So um, you know, I'm I'm curious, is uh, you know, when you mention different terms, right? Uh physical education, fitness, um, sports performance, you know, uh, like what when you look at fitness and and physical education, you know, is there is there a distinct difference to you in in those two terms, or is it kind of molded into one nowadays?

I'll tell you that that's an awesome question because I have written many articles and many blog posts and many, you know, just even Facebook little posts and stuff on that very topic. When I grew up, because of the impact of my father, he was very influential in fitness and physical education. Our physical education when I grew up was very fitness-based, very gymnastics, very um uh just you know, more athletic demand versus the the what happened, and then there's a story behind it, but what happened was it eventually got switched over to more of you know a curriculum like the classroom where we're gonna teach a unit of soccer and a unit of this and unit of that. Well, we lost the fitness component to it, but I still refer it to as physical uh education. You know, physically, but right now what it is, it's actually more sport education, if you were to take it from its true from its true definition, because they we educate more on the different aspects of sport, and that is not wrong. It's just different. If we're gonna actually call it physical education, well, then we need to get back to its roots of being physically educated, and we can do that hand in hand while teaching some sport activities and and game activities, things of that nature. But the true essence of physical education as it was originally designed and back when every time there was a war, Eric, then physical education became a higher priority.

Yeah.

Coming back from the president because they saw that we needed to be a strong country. We need strong people, we need to be physically fit, especially when the Russians were very strong and the Germans were, especially with their old turnvirine system, was very strong. So I look at physical education a little bit differently than I think than a lot of people do. And I think there's a lot of people today that are not real fond of physical education just because of the program they went through. And I think if it was organized differently, I think they would have more of a lifelong uh appreciation of what physical education could have done for that. So I look at it a little bit different than like even sports performance and and uh things of that nature.

Okay, so I I remember um I actually sat through a um a presentation by Mark Rifkin um at a uh I think it was a strengths, strength matters summit, and it went through kind of the history of of fitness physical education, and it was fascinating. I feel like all you know, it's it should be basic education for fitness professionals nowadays. But the the Kennedy era, do you remember there was a government government backed or um Do you remember you know what I'm talking about? It was a absolutely that's where the president initiative a lot of those tests come from. Yeah. So tell educate people on that because I think there's a lot of people out there listening right now who have no idea it existed. And and the reason I I want to bring it up because I found so I looked at like, you know, if you go Google what we're talking about, you'll see videos and images of people, not videos, probably just images of people doing these, you know, very demanding um courses, you know, and it was it was almost like a you had to, I think there was like a graduation through it, right? You had to get to certain levels. And I looked at, you know, all of these these movements they're doing, and then I looked at like, you know, quote unquote box gyms that have evolved, you know, kind of through CrossFit but functional training. And I'm like, oh, we're actually in some ways coming back full circle, which is cool, right? So tell us, tell us about that, that background so people can be educated.

Yeah, yeah. So what what would happen is I kind of mentioned earlier, is the the presidents, every time there was a war, had this, they they would see a lack of strength as a population, and that's not a good thing. You know, when you're entering into a potentially lengthy war and you need, you know, healthy bodies to be strong. And so physical education became more about meeting standards. It's much like entering into the military. You have to go to these standards, which unfortunately they keep dropping them, and you know, they're not they're not making people work their way up to it, they're bringing them down so that they don't, you know, so that they can get people in. Otherwise, people wouldn't make it in. So they devised this, you know, these training programs that helped. And what's the what's the name of the school out in California? It's d uh, I want to say um the Sarah, or you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. And that was through that was through Kennedy and the pushing of and like Germany. And Germany used to, they developed, they wanted their people to be strong, so they developed these huge facilities, and in them they had, you know, the swinging rings and the high bars and all the bucks and all these different uh apparatus. Well, people were getting very strong. Well, what happened back then, the government actually got fearful because they were afraid of potential overthrow because they were getting really strong. So the government banned them. Well, what happened is they moved west. And there were some in Pennsylvania and different places. My dad used to tell me about them. And there was really big facilities. Well, what happened over time was you know, entrepreneurs saw these great big indoor buildings and said, Man, what if we had a soccer field or a basketball court or something of that nature inside it? And that's when those turnvarine, those physical fitness factories basically kind of fell apart. And they then they became what we know now as racquet clubs and and basketball facilities and soccer domes, you know, and all that stuff. But it that's what they were. They were turned virine facilities, and there's still some around. Matter of fact, I think there's one in Indiana still, uh, but it was kind of part of a barracks, uh, army barracks, but it's it's now used for other stuff, but that's what it was originally, which really big facilities, and that was the push back then. And again, you know, the everything changes, and that's one of the things. But like you said, I think it's gonna come around to a degree. I don't know if it'll go that level, but I think to a degree it's coming back around. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

And it's it's uh, you know, I I this podcast is called the Future of Fitness, right? But we learn so much if we look back and we can see, you know, the trends and the cycles, everything's cyclical. And uh, you know, when Nautilus came out with their solutions, quote unquote solutions, getting everyone on the machines, and now we're starting to see that maybe that wasn't the best path for general population. Um and uh and the functional aspect and and all that is coming back. It's just it's really interesting. If like if people are look, go look at like go search the old school gyms that we're talking about, and then like pull up a modern like CrossFit or functional fitness facility, and they're gonna look really similar, you know. Even like um, you know, Ninja Warrior or you know, Spartan, like this is all it's it's all coming back full circle to you know this functional education of fitness, and it's it's really cool. So um Lee, I I have my first question from from the crowd, right? Virtual crowd. So um Nakam Brody, he's out of Tel Aviv. Uh he is a uh specialist in strength and conditioning for cycling. He says, How have athletes progressed due to the internet? Like uh he in the example he's talking about is like knowledge ahead of time or miss knowledge. Like how how is the yeah, how are athletes uh progressing with this wealth of information?

Well, obviously the the you know the positive of it is when you uh need a solution, it's easier to find that solution quickly. There's there's you can you can tap into many of the top professionals, or uh you know, you can see them via video, YouTube video of them training someone or speaking directly to you. You can you can research their articles, you can get that. So from that standpoint, uh the internet has provided the opportunity for athletes to understand not just the exercise selection, execution, but also the designing of it and the programming of it. Because when I was a kid, it was pretty much you tried it, you know, a few weeks later, if you could still walk, well then it worked. If you couldn't walk the hacker and your shoulder was out of joint, it didn't work. So you tried it again. Now, you know, now we know better. We can, you know, we can actually you know have people show us and guide us. So that's the good thing. Um, you know, I I but kind of jokingly, you know, I I you know I said, you know, how we used to do it, but there's to me, there's still that aspect of I think exploration is what makes uh training really special. I think because everybody's a little bit different, not you know, physiologically, okay, we all have a heart, we all have lungs, we all have blood flow, and we all have heart rates and they may be different and all, but we're fairly similar. But mentality has so much to do with how we gain results from training and all. So I think there's still that um, I think there's that area that I still think has a place where you experiment. Okay. And you and you, once you have a general idea, we certainly don't want to do things that aren't safe, but I still think there's that value in going in a gym and just try things. Just go through things, make sure you're safe, make sure you're doing them correctly, but just try a program on your own, one that you've come up with and see how it occurs. So I think there's value in both, but definitely the internet has brought us to where we are now. And that's why we're going so fast. And we we forget how young our profession is. You know, there's there's professions out there that are, you know, thousands of years old and we're I mean, at the level we're at, maybe 50 years old, 60 years old in terms of the depth that we have, you know, we dabbled before that. But yeah, so I think it's done a great job for us.

When when do you think? Because we talked about this before recording, so you know when I believe that the fitness industry kind of started, but is there a specific specific marker when you think, okay, this is when it kind of officially started? Is there anything you refer to?

Yeah, you know, I would say because when I now I know guys like Boyd Epley, who he started like the the accreditation of a profession. Okay, he was the him and him and uh you know, there's a several of the guys there, uh uh Pad Echaber and Bruno Pauletta, and these guys were kind of the starters of the NSCA. So from a logistical certification, this is it. That was that time. But when I grew up, you know, it was still looking at muscle and fitness and Arnold Schwarzenegger, and then prior to him, you know, the the the weeder and um, you know, uh, you know, who we talked about him earlier. I'm drawing a blank. Uh Lane. Yeah, Jack Lelane. You know, I mean, I still remember watching his shows when I was a little kid, and he uh had the jumper on and his outfit, and he would do, he would be sitting in a chair, it was like a high chair director's chair, and he's showing him how he can do leg, you know, an L sit and dip while he's in the chair. And, you know, he was kind of the one that made it a little bit more popular. And then, you know, but it was niche, it was that certain people. But then uh then it went on to the bodybuilding, and then we got you know, kind of a hold of this power lifting and Olympic, and then it kind of took off into, you know, more of what we know now. But I would say, you know, the the later 70s is when we started to kind of grasp it a little bit more, you know, as to this could be something as a profession that I could actually go to school for, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's really interesting. And um, you know, I I always I remember seeing Jack Millane on TV because I grew up in the Bay Area and he was on the uh the local network, you know, he had these 15-minute segments, and it was ju I was very young when this started to happen, but I remember hearing about like these crazy things he was doing, like pulling a boat across the bay, uh handcuffed and his feet bound, and uh swimming, you know, this boat across the bay. And uh it was so cool what he did. And you know, my first start, actually, my first uh coaching was at his grandnephew spot um in San Francisco, Crystal Lane, Lelane Fitness. So um I had the pleasure of of meeting him, and that was uh obviously a very inspiring moment for me. Um you mentioned too, you know, that I guess we could talk about the tinkerers within the industry, you know, people where you're talking about like you try something, well, my shoulder is messed up. So I'll try again, right? I think there's there's still a high level of of tinkering, and those are the people who are kind of evolving into the next thing. I mean, I had a recent interview with a guy, Ryan Whited, um, out of Flagstaff, who's doing some really interesting thing of merging therapy and and training. Um, and I think a lot of the tinkering, and I'm curious to get your thought, it seems to be happening on the technological front too. you know, with the things, because we have so many, I guess, diagnostics for lack of better term that we can get, you know, the HRV, the velocity training, the and I'm curious, you know, if what what technology in in the speed and agility world that you're using for your practice, or if if any, I'm sure there's you get approached all the time by by tech.

Sure. Yeah. Well, really what I do now, I I like when I was I was at Ball State for a little while a while ago. So I had access to some of you know Tendo units and things of that nature. But what I do right now, I don't have a lot of fancy things. I have a jump mat. Okay, a basic jump mat, you know, they're $500 or $400 something dollar map. Now how I use that is when I like if I test, let me just give you an example. I have a girl that she's a basketball player and her vertical jump might be 21 inches or something like that. Okay. So when they come back in and I know on a particular day that I'm going to give them some pretty good power work or some, you know, they have to give me some pretty good energy return. I will have them perform five independent vertical jumps. And if her numbers, let's say she averaged out at like 168 on all five, well that's telling me she's not ready today. Today's not a good day to go after because her nervous system is telling me it's just not it's not with us. So I'll I'll change what I'm gonna do and we'll still get some good training in but I won't go after the result that I wanted because she can't give it to me today. She just isn't capable. So I'll use something that's pretty simple but using it in kind of a high-tech way where I'm I'm I'm I'm able to kind of look at her what you know maybe tell me what her sleep quality was, you know what type of uh stress she was under. Maybe she came off uh an exam week or something. And you know so I use it for that and that gives me really good feedback right there. And then the rest of it becomes for just because of my setting that I'm in right now I actually train out of my house now because I travel so much I close my my place down is um I use my eyes really well. Like if I see an athlete that typically can hit these postures and positions and they're just not hitting them that's my time and or or even if they're hitting them but they're hitting them really slow if I want speed then that's my that's kind of my signal we're all back off. So I kind of mix the technology with you know 30 years plus watching a lot of good people train people I I've developed some pretty good eyes and I'm able to see things really well. But um yeah but I think the technology is pretty cool.

Yeah yeah it is and you know I had um long uh a while ago about a year ago I had coach Bob Tacano on this show too and he was uh he's you know in the Olympic weightlifting world um you know national coach for many years uh and I I had the pleasure of working with him because we were close geographically and uh you know he said there's no substitute for the coach's eye and it takes tens of thousands if not millions of reps to get that eye and there there's just no you know there's no metric out there there's no diagnostic that's gonna ever gonna change that.

You know speaking of technology so uh a colleague of mine Chris Chapman he's the um head of sports science at push so they do velocity training so I was chatting with him this morning too and I asked him if he had any specific questions for for you and you had some good ones and you know this is just a great general question especially for the people listening but you know if there's any are there any for people and this is in the context of people just getting in the game right um are there any lessons you would teach your younger self just getting into into the field in just general into the field yeah yeah yeah definitely um I think as I've gotten older I've gotten really good at networking and and and networking the correct way in other words not just reaching out and saying hi and then not following up again you know what I mean now I understand the relationship building is probably a better word. When I was younger I was never afraid to to you know to go up to people or to talk to people but I didn't know how to cultivate a relationship that well. I just thought well if I say hi they're gonna know who I am and they're gonna want to do you know involve me or hire me or you know bring me in and it just doesn't work that way. You've got to bring something to the table and I I I would say probably what I would have done more and I tell this to my interns all the time and any if I any assistants I've had is you can't be afraid to work for free uh early on you have to be willing to put the time in and be uncomfortable to get where you want to go because building your network and your relationships and letting people know that you're really in it to make a difference not just to get ahead for you you're in it to make a difference. I think that sets us up better. That's probably something I didn't do really well when I was younger. I just I guess I just didn't know and now that I realize well I didn't know most likely my interns they don't get it either they don't have that mindset yet. So I try to help them with that um you know making sure you're you're developing the relationship through sharing and giving I think that's the big thing that would have helped me a lot more.

Yeah that is uh God it's so powerful and it's it's so true. You know I I was talking with somebody else I came their name will come up soon to me I'm sure but you know relationship building isn't just connecting with someone on social media you know which a lot of people think well yeah I have a huge network I have 2000 followers on Instagram. Yeah but they don't really know you you know they're not are they gonna take your call um you know one of the reasons that was unexpected a benefit of of having a podcast and I I teach I I've helped coach people into starting podcasts is that you know I it's it's an amazing way to offer value right up front. Like I I I want to interview you I want you to um you know I want to introduce you to my audience and I want to highlight you and and share your knowledge you know and then it's it's a great way at least to start. So when I mean I tell you can have a an almost a strategic approach to building relationships but you have to be willing and what you're saying is the same thing is you have to be willing to to offer value up front with nothing no expectations in return. That's right and that's that's a hard thing to understand especially uh if you don't know how you're gonna pay rent right which is that's right.

You um I I'll tell you one of the things Eric that I think taught me the hardest transition I had was because I came from a phys ed background and a school coaching background. You don't learn like the business especially when I grew up you don't understand the business of performance. So when I was a I I was a I just my second year I was a head basketball coach I was assistant head football and I was a head track coach combined I didn't make a thousand dollars okay so and that was and people look at me crazy I said yeah but I didn't know any different because that's what my dad coached for 20 years three sometimes four sports plus he was the AD he didn't get paid that was part of the job if you were fizz head so that was all I knew so now I jump into the business world and I'm like oh yeah sure come on and don't worry about it that's what and then all of a sudden the bills start showing up I'm like okay that that strategy is not going to work very well so but it's still in my heart 30 years later I I want to help I want to do things and I want to be a part and I think that's what's allowed me to build my um a reputation of someone that will give I will give information on training on this if you call me and I get people that call me that are interns just coming out of college or juniors in college if they call me I pick up and I call back. I don't I don't that's just the way I've always been and that's the way I feel yeah and I'm not saying everybody has to do that but that's just the way I've always been and that's my way of connecting and I try to tell young guys look at it you gotta do you got to be you but at some point you're gonna have to learn to be uncomfortable living without the best you know Jordans and the best you know you know uh sweatsuit and this you're gonna have to just be able to you know put a couple of years in when you're living uh you know I I always tell this story I slept in the summer one time went back to college didn't have a place I slept on a park bench you know like that's you know I had to sleep and that's where I slept. So um it was uh that's part of it. You know, that's you just do what you have to do sometimes.

Yeah yeah it's uh you know every once in a while I get asked that question or even of you know people um in a group in a Facebook group or something like that and they say you know well you have to be willing willing to kind of eat you know shit for a little while and and be doing that well you know they're like well that doesn't help me pay the bills I'm like well that's kind of the dilemma that we all have to go through you know you have to figure it out there's no you know there's no system for that there's no it's just the struggle and it's the struggle of you know I think fitness industry uh fitness professionals are entrepreneurial by nature because we have to be right because there's no you can't get out of college and go into this like $40,000 job and work your way up the ladder. You just have to figure it out. And um you know because you're you're known for a specialty now right speed agility and um and quickness and when did that happen? Like how how long into your career did you become known as that person?

Yeah you know it it happened fairly early. Well what what happened I mentioned earlier I went to um I went to uh Bolaterry's tennis academy and I was a speed coach well I was a strength coach but they I what I was kind of I did a lot of on court speed is what they wanted me to do. So I got asked to go to what was called the Easter bowl. The Easter bowl is the largest US junior tennis tournament okay that's the there's one called the Orange Bowl which is the world okay that's everybody largest tennis tournament in the world this one was the the Easter bowl and it's down in um um the Dural okay so with a golf everybody knows the Durals Golf but there was a big tennis tournament well I went and I did a speed clinic and I did it for all the athletes and parents were around and coaches and all and it was funny because I was I walked around with a stack of cones under my arm I always had about a stack of about 15 to 20 cones because I was always I was ready to break out of clinic it could be a restaurant I'm ready I was always I had my cones so I do this clinic and then my my wife and I and this was in this was in 92 I think 92 or 93 we're sitting by the pool I had finished the clinic we just sat down got a glass of water we're sitting there and a guy walks by and he sees me and he points says hey there's the cone man so so the guy my name for a little while there was the cone man because they saw me with the cones. Well then it was funny because I had written a lot of stuff over speed and all and then someone coined me the speed guy and that happened you know it's probably 20 something years ago but and then uh that it just stuck and it's funny I've always been really good at understanding movement speed I can I can identify it quick I can uh evaluate it and and implement it really really quick but to be honest with you and I love it and I I love doing that I am very very comfortable and I love being in the weight room like I love teaching Olympic lifts I love teaching just regular lifts I love doing exercises like that but I also am smart enough to know that my niche was picked for me. I I mean I made it work but it was picked for me because that's what people were bringing me in. So I rode with it and that's what's given me a career to this point. So yeah but that's kind of how it started and then but I'm glad I wasn't known as the cone man especially when uh you know especially when the movie uh the cone heads came out I didn't want to be associated with that.

Yeah yeah the cone man oh that's fantastic so um I I have a question from Ben Reuter. He is uh a fellow podcaster he has the Moving to Live uh podcast and he's you know he's uh from academia um he's also in the world of um you know endurance sports yeah and so he asks um it's a great question you know how young nowadays do you believe is too young for athletes to specialize or just youth yeah really good question and that's that that's what you know how we have these hot topics that come and go that's been a hot topic for years and it's gonna always remain there because it's that important.

Well a couple things if we if let's go from a technical aspect of this if we specialize too soon with young athletes and we teach them very intricate detailed um technical patterns what happens is they're gonna hit a growth spur and they're gonna change they're gonna change biomechanically they're gonna change physically that pattern that they learned when they were younger is still gonna want to produce itself but yet now we have different levers. We have different strengths we have different a nervous system that can you know become you know much more aggressive and more maybe fast twitch dominant versus it might not have been when they were you know pre-adolescent. So when kids are young if we go too detailed we can actually screw up their ability to refine skills when they get older so from that standpoint we got to be really careful. Now from the standpoint of the physical aspect of you know is it too hard on our bodies and you know if we're doing too much well there's just so much uh research out on that and just you know case studies nonstop where if kids keep doing the same things over and over and over and they're very specific and that's all they do or they specialize in one sport we just see these these gross overall chronic and acute injuries that are coming just from the overuse and they're not getting enough variability or diversity in their in their body. So I do and here's the thing does sport specific training work and the answer is yes but there's the downside of it. So I can make a 10 year old become very good at a specific movement pattern in a specific sport if I drive that hard enough and long enough but that's not a good thing if I want longevity. Now a gymnast okay well they have a short lifespan compared to uh you know now we're seeing tennis players playing in their late 30s you know they're still competitive. So you know I think the uh the variety is really important. So I think sports specific training we know it works but the problem is we're not patient enough to say well I want my athlete to be the best when they're 18, 1920 21 versus 11, 12, 13 because my neighbor's kid is really good. So I got to get my kid real good. You know, that's the problem.

Yeah yeah it's it's it's the it's an amazing ongoing debate right and uh I'd be curious because I always you know I don't have um I don't have kids um hopefully you know at one point we will um but I always think of this you know what what would I have what would I urge them to do? And I I think swimming is one. That's my background as an aquatics athlete because it's just something you want them to have right yes um I also think that like martial arts martial arts and and gymnastics are two things that seem to be universally applicable through just general awareness of the body, proprioception, all those things. Do you have any thoughts on like if you know if you're starting kids off and and given they have the interest in it too. Right. That's the big thing. And is there any um I guess kind of generalist type sports or activities that you would urge people to get their kids into?

Yeah well it's funny just to piggyback on what you said I think uh gymnastics and that background I think is really good. The martial arts background is really good. It's funny because with all my kids I do boxing with them. So part of their training when my and I'm talking about my children we do with like we'll teach them and with some of my other athletes I'll do various boxing with them and and movements for that because I just think there's I think there's great value in learning those skills. My son did a program called NinjaZone and NinjaZone is a you know it's kind of the it's gymnastics with different types of climbing and fun stuff and they get the headband you know and they get the you know as they progress so that was that was awesome for him. I also think I love and I love swimming. Swimming is a big I grew up in a big background of swimming as well. I love it. My my dad was a phenomenal swim instructor and so we all grew up learning plus not not only because I think it's good for them to learn but that's one sport that can save your life. Yes you know so I think every kid needs to at least have the base basics of being able to stay above water you know and they and have some swimming skill I think that's a really good one. The other one is I I think young kids should be exposed to like soccer and the reason I say soccer is because most of our sports are geared towards getting our hands in position to make a play. Soccer forces the feet you move your body to get your feet that's a different body orientation and the agility requirements of soccer are so much different than most other sports because of that whether they want to be you know lifelong soccer players I just think as a young kid it's a really good skill to have so you have the dexterity with the feet. And then certainly I'm a fan of throwing I think throwing is a it's a primitive skill I think they need to learn how to throw so whether you're a tennis player which which we'll consider that as part of a throwing action you know serving uh you know throwing baseball softball you know football whatever I just think is because when I was a teacher phys ed teacher all my kids learned how to throw all my students we we spent a long unit on that and um and then same with kicking and hitting swinging like swinging a bat or a racket and uh I think those are skills that they because they carry over plus we forget I like being a father that there's probably not a sport that I can't teach my kids. Even if I didn't play it I could figure it out and I could teach them and I think that's I think there's a lot of value to that.

Yeah yeah absolutely yeah it's it's funny I mean you one of the and to stay on swimming too it's like I see people who in their adult age don't know how to swim and there's a certain level of fear that they always live with yeah right like uh don't get me near the pool what happens if I'm on a boat um you know it can save their lives but it's also just you know the quality of life that happens if you don't don't learn those skills early on uh it's a tough thing to learn later too it really it can be um so Ben has another question he says you know what are the benefits of speed agility quickness for endurance athletes specifically and then also a second question would be for age group athletes yeah yeah so when I was a track coach and I also was a cross country coach for a little while um I did a tremendous amount of speed and agility training with them and I did it number one when you're dealing with younger athletes you want to develop their variability of movement pattern so that was important to me so I always knew that so our warm-ups and deep into our warm up was very much multidirectional.

The other thing is is when we incur change of direction so agility cutting or pure change of direction we're getting a property that we don't typically get with most endurance points which is deceleration. Deceleration is one of those things that becomes a lifelong skill we don't want to lose because stepping off a stair coming downstairs those are deceleration moments when we teach athletes how to load and you're loading the quads you know how to load the posterior chain how to do things of that and create stiffness. Eric who's the I'm drawing a blank on his name he did the the myofascial anatomy trains Thomas Myers Myers so Thomas Myers talked about as we age we lose that crimp you know the crimp you know how if you wrinkle your shirt up you know get a crimp in it well when we lose that we lose that elasticity and that power and I'm a huge fan of that so I think when we do various forms of agility and change of direction and quickness training with endurance athletes we keep those qualities intact and we can still build upon the endurance factors and we become actually potentially better runners if that's what it is or bikers because we've we've increased power. And anytime you have to do some kind of agility now you're getting a power elastic components versus just enduring a gate cycle. Yeah. So what about for age group athletes?

Yeah, age groups for uh in terms of um Yeah, like yeah, like you know, eight to ten, ten to twelve, those those age groups, yeah, age group sports and athletes, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I I think the the the great thing about with the young kids is they naturally gravitate to agility and speed and quickness. That that's a natural thing for them. So they're going to naturally get that just by playing and being involved with those patterns. I think again, we go back to, I think we got to keep it as general as possible so that when they're doing their multi-directional speed and their change of direction, it becomes more task-driven than me scripting their patterns because I want them to develop a memory pattern, a memory sequence of patterns. And I want them to be able to react quickly. So if you and I are playing tag against each other, eventually I'm gonna figure out, all right, Eric likes to, he likes to fake to his left and go to his right because he does it most of the time. Well, that's that's called uh that's called recall, and that's that's interpretation of movement. And that's what's really important for the young kids to develop. So the the younger my kids are, the less I instruct detail, and the more I make them react and respond to a task and accomplish a task. But I'm very patient. I'm a very patient coach. I'm not the one that has to have it look perfect by week one. I understand it comes over time. It's like riding a bike. I can't teach you to ride a bike. I can just tell you how to hold the handles and how to sit, but it comes with kinesthetic awareness. So that's the same thing with young kids. I think agility is critical, but let's let them solve some tasks and you'll see the agility develop.

Yeah. And you're not just teaching them agility speed, but you're teaching them how to learn. Yes. And I think that's that's um, you know, we talk about how education is changing. Um, I was on a conversation this morning with Don Moxley, and we're talking about how the university models are are just ripe for disruption. And, you know, how, because you know, in the modern age, we we have as much information like we were talking about earlier, we have as much information as we possibly want out there. There's very little. My wife learned how to ski through YouTube, right? And uh and you know, but the skills that we seem to be missing as as a society is the critical thinking, the ability to learn, to be patient with the process, right? Um, it's so you know, everyone wants everything right away. And uh I think that's a really important thing because we haven't really, I mean, not yet, human physiology really hasn't shifted. Um you know, uh one of my favorite quotes from James Strill is, I know it still takes nine months to make a baby. And uh, you know, that that hasn't we don't see that changing anytime in the well, at least in the next five years. Um but that's that's a really important skill set. And I think that's um a really key point of what what great coaches can do for for youth is is have them understand the process of learning.

That's right. That's right. And one of the things that I used to try to do with my my younger athletes is allow them to teach their partner. Because when they have the the acuteness to be able to see something in their partner, now they're grasping what learning is. How cool. Because that's the way we learn is when we actually have to teach, you know, we task-driven experience, but when when I actually have to tell you how to do something, now I can actually understand the process because it shows up very quickly. If I don't understand it because I can't teach you, I can't tell you because I don't understand it.

Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, you know, it's industry and and you know, the gyms that I started working out and that the one I I owned for a long time and owner operator was, you know, as soon as somebody would come back from, you know, a certification or a course or a learning experience, be like, okay, now you gotta teach all the coaches. Okay. And uh it was, it just they okay, they're like, wow, okay, now I gotta, you know, do this, I gotta apply this right away. Um and at first is simple mimicry. You're just mim, you're mimicking what you learned. But it's just as it becomes part of you and you learn, uh, that's the beauty of it all. That's that's why you know coaching is so amazing. It's right to learn and then apply and then make it kind of your own thing, right? Yeah, yeah.

Well, and one of the things that I try to preach a lot when I talk to um when I talk to individuals just wanting advice on things, and because we're really big on reading, like we'll have guys that'll list. Well, I read, you know, this month I read five books or whatever. My advice is read one book five times. And then now what we can do, because that's gonna do a couple things. There's always things you're gonna miss, but number two, what it's gonna do is it's gonna give you the opportunity to actually own the information. Yes, I can read a book a week or quicker than that, if depending on the size of the book and how busy I am, but I didn't own it because I didn't apply it. I don't have enough time if I'm reading that often that quickly. And I'm not opposed to people doing that. My whole process with younger people is own something. You don't have to be just okay at 10 things. I'd rather you own two things really well, and then, you know, in another six months, let's try to own one more thing. Now you own three things, and now you become known for something, and you can impact somebody's life in that area. I always talk about myself. I I like I said, I'm very comfortable with conditioning and strength and all these things, but I have done, I've created a life for my family and I, because I understand speed, and I own it, and that's what I did. And so I try to get them to understand. Don't just try to keep up with the Joneses and read a book a week if you don't apply and own that information. That's that's really not giving you the, you know, it's not giving you the information that you really want. It's just, you know, you're just checking a box. And that's really not what learning is about. So yeah, I think you gotta, you know, you gotta own something.

Yeah, that's so fascinating. When I had um Dan John on on the second time for this podcast, the a big topic of what we are went over is he he said uh rereading is one of the the most understated, you know, skills or um habits that you can do because you do miss a lot. And I, you know, I I took that to note because I I picked up you know three more books that I want to reread several times um in 2019. And uh yeah, because they're so you kind of find you go through and you digest information so quickly, and you're right, everyone wants to keep up with like, especially the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial space. Like, well, I read three books a week. Oh, really? Well, I read four. Well, who who gives a crap, right? If it's not being applied, uh it's just another vanity metric. And uh yeah, it's a fascinating thing. So um, you know, all three of the gentlemen, knockham, Chris, and and Ben, who all ask questions, they all want to know the same thing too, is you know, you know, where where do you see the industry going? Um, you know, five to ten years, if people are getting into the fitness profession, you know, how um how do we keep people skating to where the puck is going? What's your what's your vision of of where things are heading?

Yeah, that's that's a question. I you know I ask myself a lot too. I um I'm one of the these people that I you know I look at this, I look at our profession from where it came from and where it's gone, and then you know, how much it's come back, you know, because like you were saying too, you got these little facilities now, little boxes that have very similar to what we did, you know, 50 years ago. So I I I think I think what's gonna happen, and I think we're seeing it with a lot of um some of the reality TV shows with fitness, you know, the the Titan, it was one of the Titan Games is a new one, I think that's out, and you have all these other things. I think are the influence of more inclusive type training, of you know, getting out there and moving and climbing and swimming and running and jumping, the triathlete type thing. I think a lot of that is gonna continue to grow. And I believe so because um, you know, I'm 53 years old and I still feel like I'm 18 in respect. So I don't want to sit on a, you know, we talked earlier about Nautilus. I don't want to sit on a selectorized machine and you know hinge at my knee joint. You know, I I don't want to just be put through that. So I want to throw medicine balls and I want to climb and I want to run, I want to do that stuff. I think our fitness, I think we're gonna start to see because we we really have this big compartmentalized approach still. Okay, so we're gonna really just train this little bit during this phase of training. And then once that's done, then we're gonna move and we're gonna improve this. I think we're gonna start to see where we do more inclusive, where everything is happening together. You know, almost like the con well, I guess we went to the strength where we'd say conjugate, you know, that type of type of uh approach. And I think we're gonna see more of that happening. Um, you know, like so when I do speed stuff with my athletes, you know, I'll incorporate strength and power with it. Okay, it'll be right in the same rep, okay, or in the same set, you know, what we m like complex type training. I think we're gonna see more of that type of things, and I think you're gonna see that being uh shown in more of that that type of facility. Okay, those type of facilities where you can you can run almost obstacle course-based stuff, where because I think the adult population is gonna get bigger in fitness, and the athletic performance is gonna stall for a little bit. And the reason I say that is because of AAU and travel sports are dominating so much of the landscape. And I I know back in the early 90s, I it was no problem for me to run 60 kids a day through my training program easily. And I and it was just me. This wasn't with a bunch of staff, it was I was the only one. And then probably towards the early 2000s, many of these kids were getting an AAU. I couldn't get even close to that number. So it started to dive off, you know, take a deep dive right off end. But the adult population is picking up of training, so that's why I see this kind of this overall combative type sport atmosphere. I think that's where we're gonna see a lot. And I think facilities are gonna have to have that model if they want to have the sports performance. You've got to have something that's gonna pull you along, and I think you've got to have that adult component to it.

Yeah, yeah. I love that. That makes me really happy. That makes me really excited, you know, for where it goes because uh, you know, like we talked about earlier in this episode was you know, kind of the functional fitness movement leading to the ninja movement, leading to the Spartan movement, leading to all these where it's actually, oh wow, applied fitness is actually fun, you know. Um and I've as I've gone, um, been on this planet for 42 years, you know, uh I've gone from a very strict um training regimen, you know, regimen to, you know, I do a little bit of Olympic Olympic Olympic lifting and I go and I seasonally do what I want to do. You know, I skipped in the winter, right? Mountain bike in the spring and summer. And my my fitness isn't a chore anymore. It's just mine.

And that's that's that's so well said. That's exactly the way I am right now. There's times when I go out in my garage and I have everything you could need in the garage to work out. And sometimes I go out there and I don't decide to what I'm gonna do until I finish my last warm-up. And then I'm like, okay, this is what I feel like. And then I go get it. And it's just and I feel great about that because I can do anything I want and um and and it keeps me healthy and I move well. So it's yeah, it's kind of fun. It's it's actually very stress-relief.

It is, yeah, it is. So, Lee, if um if people want to get a piece of you, you know, maybe some of the educational pieces you have out there, get in contact with you, where where do you send them?

Yeah, they can if they go to leetaft.com, they can reach us anyway. Um, certainly at left uh through you know Twitter or you know, Facebook is everything, everything is Letaft, so they can get me that way, Instagram or any of those. Um, and I'm very uh, you know, my my email is lt at leetaft.com. They just reach out directly to me. I'm very accessible and love. I think that's the greatest part of this profession right now is I get to talk with other people who have a like-minded approach. So uh I think it's a lot of fun. So yeah, I appreciate you allowing me to do that.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, it was my pleasure. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. It was great insights. I had a lot of fun, and I think it's uh universally valuable for anybody in the fitness industry or not, um, some of the things we covered today.

So thank you, Eric. That was great.

You're doing great things. I appreciate you. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, lead tapped. Hey fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask. Actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I ask you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us. It's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel or Fitness Marketing Alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge. That's a big deal for us. And when we put a lot of work into these episodes uh trying to give you create actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at Fitness MarketingAlliance.com