Dr. Stacy Sims - "Women Are Not Small Men"

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Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yeah, you are um kind of an intellectual badass. I mean, if I if I can say it myself, I think let's just go over this. So you have a TEDx talk, which I know a lot of people have actually brought to my attention over the last few years. Uh, we'll get into what that is. Um, 70 plus peer-reviewed papers. Uh, you have two books, Roar and Next Level. You probably have another one, I'm sure, somewhere in your mind. If not.

Okay.

Yeah, she's giving me this sh. Uh you are an advisory for some of my favorite brands. Uh Whoop, Exos, Tonal, uh, your founding partner of wild.ai. Um, gosh, I don't even know how to like read all the research work that you've done through Stanford and um Darren New Zealand. So, anyway, point being you you're legitimate and you you have a very specific mission in mind. So I'm gonna stop talking. Maybe you start describe a little bit about who you are, what your mission is, and uh a little bit of your backstory. I think it'd be really interesting.

Yeah, I whenever someone interests me, I'm like, who is this person? Because I never really think about it as like like my mission has never been to become a full professor with all these publications and stuff in journals. Um, it's really just to help people, right? And started as being a female athlete uh in university and not getting the same kind of results that the men would get, even though we were training as hard and doing as much, and just going through different aspects of healthcare and seeing um discrepancies in the way I was talked to as a woman versus some of my male colleagues, and then going through um academia and seeing the gender gap in research. And so it's really been trying to create an equality between research of men and women and get women to understand that most of the guidelines, most of the information that they've gotten through biomedical and sports science is based on male data, which is not necessarily appropriate for us because one, there are sex differences from birth. And then as we go through our life, we have different um periods through our life where there are perturbations in our sex hormones that affect every system of the body. So I guess that's why my tagline is women are not small men.

I love I love that.

That was uh I think I quoted you actually in a talk I gave with the Matabolic uh franchise conference, and that that came up. It was, yeah, it was it was really uh we were talking about FemTech and the emergence of that. You know, I want to dive a little bit more into the problem, you know, the the disparage, uh disparity between the research. Like what's the root of that? If you could, if you could guess, or maybe you have the research to prove it, but what do you think put us in this situation?

It's a hist yeah, it's a historical context. So um, if we go all the way back to like when we start seeing the modernization of medicine, um it used to be like the women were the healers and the caregivers in whatever tribe or village or whatever it was. But when we started having the modernization of uh medicine, modernization of I guess civilization, it became more of a male focus because it became like, you know, most places were more of a patriarchal where women were the ones that stayed at home, men were the ones who went out and sought information. There was this idea that women weren't as smart as men because they were smaller. So they got got into this whole like the medical field, sports field. It's all based on the patriarchy. And I'm not saying that as a feminist, ah, the patriarchy, I'm just saying it from a historical perspective, it's been that way where the men have been the ones that have gone out, sought the knowledge, pushed the knowledge, tested on each other. Even in sport, it's been a show of male aggression. So when we start looking at sports science, we start looking at biomedical research, it's all been from this male lens. And there hasn't ever really been the thought of, oh, well, we should include women specifically and do research on women through a female lens because they potentially have different outcomes. It's not ever been in that conversation. And a lot of the times it comes from whatever is being designed or discussed, RD, that kind of stuff, begins in a room full of people who are the intellects. And most of the time it's the cis male. So all of those things kind of feed out into what we now have the context of now, which is different from the context of then.

Interesting. Uh so I I had Kristen Holmes on, and I also had Misha Tate. I was telling you pre-recording, and both both times, you know, that that was it was really interesting how it turned into, you know, the female physiology and training. I mean, over the last would you say over the last like five years it started to pick up steam with research? Or how how long do you think it's it's when do you think the start the change started to happen or research started to shift a little bit? You mentioned we'll talk about the grant that you recently got funded, um, things like that. But when do you think the tide started to turn? Or has it really yet?

Um, it's starting to. There are two definitive points that we can actually say in recent history where in May people sit up and say, What? I think the first was when the USA soccer team came out and said, Hey, we were tracking our menstrual cycle. And that really helped us leverage our performance. And people were like, Well, what do you mean you're tracking your menstrual cycle? What does that have to do with innings? So that conversation became out on the global platform, which kind of started breaking the taboo about people talking about their periods and that sports women have periods and that kind of stuff. The second really pivotal point is COVID. So if we look at the pandemic and we look at the outcomes of men versus women with side effects and reactions to the vaccine, women had less side effects and they had less negative outcomes to the vaccine. So the medical um community started going, hey, what's going on here? As well as women saying, we've had disruption in our menstrual cycle, what's going on? So it became a forefront of there were these different responses. And it made the medical community go, wait a second, we really have to dig in and see what are these differences. We had this idea that we have to really look at women differently because of like the ambient fiasco and all these other things that have kind of had the undercurrent, but it was actually COVID that really brought it to the forefront to start talking about the need for sex difference research in the medical community. Um if it had been men who have better outcomes, we wouldn't have had that conversation. So it took some kind of mass occurrence for the entire medical community globally to sit up and be like, hey, wait, yeah, we do have to look at women differently.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to go back to the US women's soccer team because I think that's interesting. It's it's just a uh, I guess it's it's an easier lens to kind of look at it through. Like what specifically did they do? Were they like sitting there with pad and paper tracking their menstrual cycles, or was there something more advanced? Like how they how they accumulate the information and what they do with it.

Yeah, yeah. So um about six years ago, I went to the female athlete conference in Boston. Catherine Ackerman heads it up. And there's a woman, Dr. Georgie Bruinsville, who was there. And she was at the Fitter Woman. Like she's like, hey, we have this new app that I was able to help design. So we started talking about it. And that was really the first digital guest tracking mechanism for women in sport, because it was designed for active women, not designed for tracking ovulation and fertility. And she is based in the UK, uh, started talking to Chelsea, and then some of the people from Chelsea transferred over to USA, still using FITR. So Fidder was the tracking, I guess, platform that they were using. And it wasn't about changing things up as much as it was getting the coaches and the players on board to understand the menstrual cycle and the nuances that occurred for each player. So the player was then able to go back to the coach and be like, you know, I'm not on my game today. I never am on this day of my menstrual cycle. And they were able to just really take care of their athlete from a holistic idea. It wasn't that they were going in and making these massive changes, which I think the media portrayed it, but more about being aware. And so when that came out and they were saying, hey, we're aware of menstrual cycles, we talk about it on the team. We're able to implement change and not have a negative connotation or backlash. And we're also able to help our players on days that they have really bad cramps or they have these issues with their period, but they still have to play. Um, so I think that was the the first and foremost implementation of using a menstrual cycle and looking at it for female athletes.

Yeah, so it sounds like really just that was like the start of the awareness and data accumulation phase, right? And now it's like we're in the what I call the now what. Like we have all the data. Not all the data, but we have data, right? Substantial data amounts. I mean, you know, like what you're doing with Woop, and that was something Chris and I talked about. Um let me let me back up one second before we get into technology because I definitely want to circle back to that. But the uh I want to look at this through like the lens of the fitness trainer and coach. I mean, this this podcast is for fitness professionals and people within or around our industry. So, what considerations, what how do I need to change to make it more specific? If I'm a coach, okay, I'm a personal trainer, how do I need to start changing my practice uh in order to better serve my female clients?

So, this is something that um I guess a lot of people have had this question like they don't want to broach it if a woman doesn't want to talk about it. Um, so we always put it in the health aspect. It's like as a coach, as a fitness trainer, you want the best for your client, for your player, whatever. And a lot of that comes to avoiding injury, avoiding illness, trying to keep them going so that they can gain these fitness aspects and things that you're trying to push. So it whenever someone shows up at the gym, shows up to practice, there are always or should always be some kind of quick health metric check. So we talk about it as if you're going to see if anyone's injured, anyone had bad sleep, then you also can put in, um, you know, how are you feeling today? Where are you in your menstrual cycle? And it just becomes that open conversation as it's a health metric. So if we're trying to implement it into our training or our practices, we look at it from a health metric guide and having the woman be able to understand her own patterns where she knows that every two days before ovulation, she feels really flat, but the day after ovulation, she feels really fantastic. As a coach or trainer, you can take advantage of that. So you can manipulate the workouts to have more of recovery and then have really strong hard training stress on the day she feels great because you want a strong training stress to adapt to it to get fitter. It's not about like generalized phase-based-based training, which I think is the conversation out in the media that's getting confusing. It's about a woman understanding her own physiology and then having the undercurrent of immunity and inflammatory responses that we can can look at how do we manipulate across your own patterning. Um, and then if someone's starting to have a misstep in their menstrual cycle, like it's getting shorter or longer, or she notices changes in her bleed pattern, that's the first sign that there is not adequate nutrition or there's poor adaptation. So you have the ability to pull back or have your athlete pull back to correct it before they get injured, before they get sick, or before they get down the path of um relative energy deficiency in sport. So it all comes back to that basic health metric that we want to try to get coaches and and people in the fitness industry to understand.

And how does that conversation look and sound? Like I'm just I'm going back to my like 2012 era sitting in my office doing a consultation, right? And I I'll fully admit, like I when it came to like menstrual cycles and female specific anatomy and physiology, I was always a little bit shy because I just felt uneducated and feel confident, right? Yeah, maybe because no one I guess no one really coached me. I mean, James Fitzgerald was my mentor, um, OPT from you know like uh Canada now, Arizona. But he he was good about this stuff. He was very matter-of-fact and he knew how to approach these things, but I was always you know kind of reluctant to broach a topic. So like how does that how's that conversation unfold and and what suggestions do you have when when discussing?

Yeah, because it it is still a little bit taboo, and women do feel uncomfortable talking to uh a male coach about it still, right? So they don't have real issues opening up to women, but from a male standpoint, it can be difficult. So again, we have it as a checklist, like when you're bringing someone in for a consult and then in like the health, or you're talking about them like, are there any times during the month where you feel super flat, or are they any time during the month where um you're having issues getting to sleep or you know, having daily life function? So you're just going after times during the month instead of saying, okay, does your menstrual cycle affect you? Because then that can open up a little bit of a window to then start digging in a bit. Well, why is it? And then you can then you can launch in, oh, are you on any kind of contraception? Are you regularly cycling? Um, do you have any other medical conditions that we should be aware of? So again, it's putting it back into the health scope because it makes sense if it's in the health arena rather than going through everything, looking at goals, and then be like, oh yeah, your menstrual cycle. Do you have a menstrual cycle? Right. Right. So you want to include it in where it makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, and you know, when we talk about health, of course, there's also like scope of practice, which I was, you know, uh alluding to before we started recording. You know, if I'm a trainer or a coach, you know, probably not uh as educated or a doctor like you are, um you know, where do I draw the line? Like what can I discuss and work with? And when do I, you know, maybe partner with someone who uh has a couple more initials behind their name?

Yeah, I mean, it's just that when you're looking at basic um personal training, basic coaching, it's having the woman aware. So, and then you're aware too. So if you're broaching that conversation and you talk about menstrual cycle, you can say, Oh, do you track? And if she's like, What no, what are you talking about? Then you can offer opportunities for her to track. You can be like, hey, you know, if you just tell me um if you see a pattern on days you don't feel so great, so I can modify your training, or if you really want to dig in, well, you can use wild AI, you can use Fitter, or you can, you know, even use some of your wearables to track. But if you're gonna use one of the more digital platforms like Fitter or like Wild AI, then I can use my coaching platform and we can see, you know, where you are and we can manipulate things without having too much onerousness on it. Um, and so it's just that awareness. If someone is having is skipping practice or skipping sessions because they're curled up with really bad cramps and they're canceling because they can't, then that's when you need to be like, hey, you should really talk to your physician about this because that's not normal. Um, so again, once you have that general awareness and you understand and she understands the patterns of how her cycle can affect her, then that's where the launch, that's the status quo. And when things start to get above and beyond that status quo, and you start to see lots of variations, that's when you can talk about, hey, maybe you should go see a physician or an endocrinologist or something like that. A lot of times that happens when women are in their late 30s, early 40s and start getting into perimenopause, and we start seeing a whole bunch of things that aren't quite right. They're not responding to the training, they're having um really poor concentration, they're having irregularities in their bleed patterns. And so the status quo is no longer the status quo. So then you can be like, hey, you know, you should go talk to somebody about this.

Yeah. Uh wild AI, explain what that is. I mean, I've I've come across it in a couple of conversations on a involved in a panel I was part of as well. Um so I know a little bit about it, but I know you're you're deeply involved in it. Maybe you can give the audience a little bit more insights into what exactly that is and what it offers.

Yeah, so um wild AI is a way of tracking your menstrual cycle for the most part. But instead of just being 2D where you mark, yes, I started my period today and these are my symptoms, it's actually um an artificially intelligence-driven platform where it's one of the only um AI-driven algorithms that has been designed through the female lens. So we talk about AI being like Protex, you know, designed by men, even the prompt engineers are men, but this is specific to women designed by women for women. So when you start putting in all this information and pulling in different information from wearables, it starts to learn who you are and starts to learn your patterns. So it'll come up and be like, hey, you know, today's the day that you always feel flat. So let's look at modifying your training, or let's get some more sleep, or here's some nutrition things that you can try to do to still be able to do what you want to do on that day. So it's more about supporting around the menstrual cycle and your own individual patterns rather than being 2D and putting you in a general scope of saying, oh, you're in the high hormone phase, you shouldn't do this. Because when Helene first approached me, so Helene's the um founder of Wild AI, I was like, the biggest thing that drives me crazy is the language that is used in all these apps where they're telling women they can't do certain things, which is absolutely not true. It's reframing it and saying, and these are the things that we need to implement to level the playing field. So Wilde takes in that positive language and that positive scope to keep encouraging women to do what they want to do and empowering women throughout all phases of their cycle or their hormonal birth control or perimenopause or postmenopause.

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Yeah, there's uh there's three separate areas really. So we have the individual app that women have on their phone, and we have a coach's platform where the coach can have a code and say, Hey, you know, here's my code, here's the app, put this code in so then you're tied to my my platform. So this is where the coach can look and see where their athlete is in their menstrual cycle, if there are any issues, if there's changes. So it gives that wide overview without directly having to have that conversation. And any of the wearable data that gets uploaded also gets uploaded to the coach's platform. So it's like a big digital like platform. Coaches to see what's going on. And then we have a separate research arm that doesn't have any of the feedback information for the women. It gets held in the back end so the researchers can access it. And then the participants get the information after the research project is over. The other thing about uh, especially in the US climate right now, with all of the stuff that's going on, that women are really afraid of tracking and such, and talking about menstrual cycles is Wild and Fitter are both European companies and they are held under European law and the US can't touch it. So they can't subpoena these companies and get the data. So everything is super safe. Um, and I think women don't understand that if they want to use these platforms, they need to find out where the company is based so that they can feel safe in using it as well.

Can you unpack that a little bit? Like why that's a big deal as much as you can, as much as you feel comfortable with. Because I mean, I mean, I think I know why, but I want to hear from you like why, why, that, why that's such a a really important thing to know.

Yeah. So um, when they overturned Roe v. Wade uh last summer and put it back to each state to make decisions on abortion and such, there are some very conservative states that are trying to create bills and laws that will penalize or put women in jail for either having an abortion, seeking an abortion, or helping someone through early stage termination. And one of the conversations was subpoenaing, subpoenaing women's electronic data to see if they've skipped a period or if their cycles have changed or if there's any indication that they have sought abortion. So people are like, I don't want to have a digital footprint because I don't want to run the risk of something happening and something being changed in a state where they will subpoena my data retrospectively and then I get thrown in jail. So this is a huge concern for women across the states that their data isn't safe and their personal health information isn't safe, even though we have personal health information laws. The states are bypassing it saying, hey, it's de-identified, so it's not really personal. So when we look at companies that are based in Europe, they are under different guidelines and different laws, and they are very strict about who can access that data. And you can't just pass it off to different companies. You cannot give it to any kind of subpoena from the US, so that um there's not the access to the government institutions in the states who might want access to it.

No way. I'm glad I asked because that that was I didn't, yeah. I'm just glad I asked. That's uh that's a really good information for people listening.

So um I know it's scary times, man. It really is.

Like, yeah. I I yeah, I I've read books, you know, uh from the past where I'm now rereading them and I'm like, geez, we're there. Like this is I know. Yeah, we're there.

I know.

I know.

As much as I want to move back to States, I'm like, my daughter's 10. I don't know if that's States is just the right place for her yet.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Yeah. Uh well, you know, keeping on the the note of technology, I mean, things are evolving really fast. And I I love talking about tech um and testing with things. Yeah. So what what has you excited? I mean, in this in this particular field that you're in, you know, is there any other emerging technologies or things that you get really excited about? I mean, I know obviously we work you work with Whoop. Um, I'm curious what your thoughts on HRV and the female physiology and how that may differ. But yeah, what what tech gets you gets you fired up?

Well, my big thing this year is going around talking about how all tech sucks for women. Not really. What I mean is when we dig in and look at um AI and all the, like I was saying, you know, like when you're looking at people who are designing AI platforms, it often defaults to the cis male. And so the algorithms are again through the male lens, the prompt engineers are um primarily men as well. So it's a lot of the language isn't right, it's understanding um what the nuances are in a female environment, even things like HRV that you bring up, right? When we're looking at female physiology, we know that after ovulation with a rise in progesterone, we have changes in our autonomic nervous system where there's decreased vagal tones. So that means our resting heart rate is up, our respiratory rate is up, our HRV is down, we have changes in our sleep architecture. And from a wearable standpoint, it feeds back to the athlete and the coach that the person isn't recovered, or that you know it was a really stressful training day, which may or may not be truly representative. And we know that, like I say this all the time, whoop, right? I wear whoop, and it's impossible for me to get into the green in the seven days leading up to my period because I've such a shift in the autonomic nervous system and it compares day to day or week to week, but it doesn't look at phase to phase. So, in order to capture what we really want, pushing whoop, and now they are looking phase to phase and trying to see how we can roll that out for trends. But when we look at things like Garmin and Aura and all these other ones, they're just really, I feel like they've jumped on the bandwagon of female physiology, or is a bit better because they have really dug in from the fertility aspect, but not from the active aspect. So there's a lot of things in wearables from uh like not from a femtech point of view, but from a um sports science and training and recovery point of view that needs to change.

Yeah, interesting. Um, and do you think it's starting to I'm starting to pick up in in the conversation too that uh, you know, a lot of the research on the female physiology has primarily been around, you know, um fertility. But yeah, you know, now it's starting to venture into you know quality of life, health span, um, performance, all that is is that an accurate statement? Maybe you can expand on on that evolution.

Yeah, I think it was uh 2016 or 2015, uh the founder of Hello Clue coined Femtech. And so you start looking at everything that's in there, and the whole goal is to change and close that gender data gap. And so a lot of the technology and research is based in the OB and the maternal care. And then people are like, hey, wait a second, I'm not necessarily looking to be pregnant, but I am looking to be healthy. So it started trickling now into like the general health scope and looking at um how we can look at things like blood glucose changes across the menstrual cycle for people who might be pre-diabetic to have better control and better understanding of their blood glucose. Um, and so as we're starting to see this consumer want for these things, we're starting to see research coming in because now they're like, hey, wait, we don't know if that's true or not. We see all this marketing, but we need science to back it up. So it's kind of like the consumer want and the marketing behind a lot of these um tech pieces are now driving some of the research, which is fantastic. So we're starting to see an uptick in it, and we're also having these conversations about methodology, because unfortunately, a lot of the research that's been done, like in sports science, has been designed not to really look at the nuances of women, but going back underpowered post hoc to see if there are any differences, which then feeds forward of, oh, there aren't any differences because a post hoc test isn't necessarily strong enough to get in and find those nuances because the original design was not designed properly to look for those differences. So when we understand that methodology, now the research is actually being designed for women, not necessarily by women, but for women in that female environment to pick up those nuances. So we don't have to do post hoc tests to look and see if there are any differences.

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And one of the things I want to cover with you was um female physiology and injuries, specifically like concussion protocols. I heard I heard you talking about this in other podcasts. I thought it was really interesting. Maybe can you expand a little bit on that and how that differs in the treatment and approach?

Yeah, my PhD student, Natalie, is looking at sex differences and concussions. And so I've become very upskilled in it, plus being surrounded by professional rugby and soccer players. And we started noticing a trend before Nat got into her PhD that women who were suffering TBI concussion during the high hormone phase of their menstrual cycle or on the third pill or third week of their active pill were having a really, really difficult time coming back. So we're like, hey, there's something here. So you start digging into the research, and no one really was looking at that. They're looking at um onset to recovery or the general protocols for recovery. And then some people were talking about um long episodes of fatigue and post-concussion disorder. So we were like, you know, there's something here that has to do with sex hormones. So that's what her whole PhD is about. And there's been more and more coming out saying, you know what, there are differences. Women experience a TBI differently. It does depend on what phase of the menstrual cycle they're hit. And the outcomes are different, the recovery is different. So we have to look at what kind of um supplements, creatine and omega-3s, sure, but how much? What's the dosage? Uh, what is the return to play look like? What do we do with long post-concussive syndrome? Uh, so now that conversation is starting to come up, and now we're starting to see more and more research, but it still hasn't trickled out to the mainstay population that when you get a concussion, it does matter if you're a male or female, and it does matter your hormone status, because then the recovery and return to play recommendations are different.

You know, it uh it strikes me that over the last few years, and you know, people like yourself, people like Dr. Andrew Huberman and these experts, right, have kind of proven in many ways that people are hungry for knowledge. Like people want to learn more about their physiology, their performance, their lifespan, like all of this. It's just this general, you know, um thirst for for health knowledge. And you know, you brought up supplements too. I know you you started working with Momentus. Um maybe you could dive into that a little bit. Like, what's that partnership been like for you? What's what's the purpose that's driving the whole thing? And then how how are you working with them to create different um you know supplement plans for for your listeners and your viewers?

Yeah, so this is where we're like we have the Dr. Stacy Sims that everyone knows about, which is why we're doing a podcast together. And then we have kind of the hidden Dr. Stacy Sims that's been in the supplement world, has created sports drink companies, has been, you know, talking about the things that work and don't work for a very long time. And one of my good friends is Kelly Sturrett, Kelly and Juliet Sturrett. I've known them for a very long time from California. And we always talk about things. And Kelly's like, you need to talk to Jeff. If you want to talk about adaptogens, you need to talk to Jeff. I was like, because my dream is to get things out there that work for women, that have efficacy for women across their lifespan. So, you know, someone who is um 20 has different requirements for someone who's in their 40s. But I'm also very cognate that there is a lot of crap on the market with fillers, flow agents, marketing, things that don't work. And when I talked to Jeff, his mission, coming from the NFL background, was he was surrounded by health professionals that made sure that he got stuff that worked for him and that was clean. And he's like, Why can't everyone have that? So that's Momentous's um like real mission is to have clean supplements that work. I was like, this is the first time I have ever talked to a supplement company that is on the same mission as myself. And I've had people be like, Well, why don't you start your own? I was like, that's too hard. It is too hard to break into that market. Why would I want to do that when I can work with someone who's already gotten into the market, has the same ethos as me, has us surrounded by other experts who also have the same ethos. So the it just seemed like a natural combination. So our goal is to really get women to understand like the difference and the nuances between their menstrual cycle or oral contraceptive pill, or if they're peri or postmenopause, all that hormone profile, and then use things that work for them to support their bodies in that. So, you know, higher oxidation occurs when you're using an oral contraceptive pill. So you should be looking at using things that are antioxidative. If you're peri and postmenopause, you need help with autonomic nervous system and sympathetic drive. So that's what it's about.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I really like, I mean, Jeff was recently on the podcast. Gosh, it may even be the one right before this uh when it comes to release. So it's like it looked very timely. You're welcome, Jeff. Um but I do like I I love the uh expert-driven protocols, right? Where it's like people like yourself have really done the research and people are seeking out like, okay, because supplements, you're right. I mean, supplement, it's hard to break into, there's a lot of competition, it's highly unregulated, there's a lot of bullshit. Um, and I think people need to have the people they can trust to recommend the protocols for their specific needs. And that's I I really like that combo. Um, I'm a huge fan of what they're doing. No, thanks. Um, I want to cover some time because I know you you have something that's pretty exciting you've been working on recently. And you know, give people insights. It's uh Q2 2023, but you recently got some grant funding. Um tell tell us all about it. It's pretty exciting.

Yeah. Uh so last year I had a trip back to the States and I met up with my mentor, Marcia Stefanick at Stanford, and we were talking about some of the new research on proteomics. And I was like, well, if we're doing whole blood um looks at proteomics, I wonder if we could use menstrual cycle blood. It's whole blood, even though it has endothelial cells, which could be a good thing, because then we could look at endothelial dysfunction and endometrial dysfunction. Um, so I came back and started talking to a colleague here at Massey, and we were like, you know what, this would make sense if we were to do a bigger pilot in New Zealand or a national study because we have cultural differences as well as like a big pool of women who don't necessarily have really good access to healthcare because it's rural. Um, so if we look at some of the cultural differences in Western society, people don't want to talk about menstrual cycle. They don't want to talk about having their period and blood because it's quote icky. But Pacifica, it's part of their life force. So they do talk about it and they want to be able to utilize it and do something with it. So the whole idea behind this grant was to compare whole blood that you take systemically to menstrual blood to look at early signs of disease, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, um, PCOS, endometriosis, uh, other menstrual cycle dysfunctions that are specific to women that go significantly undiagnosed because they are presenting differently in women than in men. We see a really high incidence of PCOS and endometriosis, especially in the New Zealand population, but it's really underdiagnosed. So the goal of this grant is to be able to use the menstrual blood to identify these, create at-home kits so that women can test their own menstrual blood, do whatever they want in the comfort of their own home, get the results, their doctor gets the results, and then it's a step forward. It reduces some of the barriers to healthcare, but also empowers women to take care of themselves and be able to diagnose things that otherwise would go undiagnosed.

Wow. That's awesome. So when when does that all start? Like, you know, when is when do you estimate the funding to come in and when you actually start the project or has it started?

July. We start in July. Yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you fit it all in?

That's the question I have.

I don't know. No. Um, I have really good PhD students and we have a really good research team. So all of us will take one small aspect of the research and really push forward. Um, yeah, it's time management. I think you were asking before we got on recording about if I was racing or not. As much as I want to, it doesn't, it's not the top priority. If things come up and it fits, then I try to have that that mediocre fitness be able to race, but it's not the priority. And I think giving up that drive has opened up, I guess, room for other things, which is fortunate but unfortunate. You know, bigger good or being selfish. So I'm like, okay, bigger good.

There's you know, the the more years I spend on this plan, I realize everything's just one big trade-off. You know, it is. You can't you can't have it all. Um one of the things I'm interested because this this topic keeps coming up both personally in context of this podcast or just you know, in professional conversations, but hormone replacement therapies. Um, if if women um specifically want to engage that, I think it's been talked about on the men's side. I mean, just a lot. And but you know, if if what are the considerations? What do what do women, what questions do women need to ask when they're pursuing this potential um route? And then, you know, who do they need to look for? Like give us some insights into and guidance into what that route could be.

Yeah, there is a lot of conversation about hormone replacement therapy, and we try to spin it and say it's menopause hormone therapy because we're not trying to replace anything, because the loss of our ovarian hormones is part of aging because women don't age in a linear fashion like men. So when we're talking about it as a therapy, it is that it's not for um body composition change, it's not for you know, all of these things that that are out there that people think about. If I use hormone replacement therapy, then magically I'm like I'm in my 30s. It doesn't work that way. But if a woman has decided that, you know, and her physician has talked to her about it, saying, My symptomology is so bad it's affecting my quality of life. I can't concentrate, I can't sleep, I'm having night sweats, basomotor symptoms, I'm putting on this weight, I can't control it, and I have a risk for bone issues. Like anything that is a cause for health concern or interferes with your daily life, then yeah, you go down the track of using it as a therapy. And we want to make sure that women are finding endocrinologists or physicians who are really well versed in it, because there's a lot of fear around it, too, from early studies out of the Women's Health Initiative that was based on late postmenopausal women, not early postmenopausal women. If you start therapy 15 years or 10 years after you had your last period, then yeah, there are going to be significant risk factors involved because your entire body and receptors have changed. But if you're starting it in the menopause transition or early postmenopause, your body's still in tune to being able to use those hormones in a positive manner. Um, so it's really important to work with an endocrinologist or an internist that understands what the therapy is, not just going, oh yeah, your perimenopause, here, here's some estrogen, because we want them to look at micronized estradiol, micronized progesterone, not using conjugated synthetics because those are the ones that have a higher risk factor, have to understand that if you have a uterus, then you have to use both estrogen and progesterone. So there's a lot of nuances within it. And so if a woman is is educated and she's talking to a physician that's educated, it can be a very powerful, helpful therapy for women to get through the menopause transition and early postmenopause. But if not, things can go definitely awry.

Yeah. And is there any uh, you know, obviously educating yourself is is always a really good idea. Is there any questions that you would ask doctors to kind of uncover whether or not they're a good option for pursuing?

Um, yeah, I mean, first and foremost is if they know what perimenopause is. Okay. Because a lot of physicians are like, oh, oh yeah, perimenopause, you're about the right age. The other is looking at your risk factors. Like some people will they you need to have a mammogram and a pap smear before you start to have a baseline. And if they don't offer that, then you need to put some red flags up. Um, just start talking about different options. If they have the idea of what the different options are, then yeah, they're educated. Jen Gunter has really good information on it. Um, Nikki Key wrote a book recently on um hormones for female and for men and women for the most part, across the lifestyle and has a really, really sound section on hormone therapy that you can go to. Uh the Hit Play Not Pause podcast as well, specific to it, has some really good downloadable areas on menopause hormone therapy. So just educating yourself on those, and then you'll be able to ask those appropriate questions to kind of weed out if the physician actually knows or doesn't know.

Awesome. Yeah, that's great. That's really actionable. I think a lot of people will glean some of that. I think even as if you're a um, you know, a coach or trainer or fitness professional, you should have a little bit of information in your back pocket about you know what this is because it's gonna start coming up. I think it's hormone replacement therapies and all of that. Uh endocrinology, it's it's it's gonna start getting more and more popular and more and more widespread, I would imagine.

Um Yeah, I heard on uh the equivalent of NPR here that there's a shortage of hormone therapy. Globally, because there's been an unprecedented rise in the want and need of it. And part of it, I think, is um the transgendered aspect of people, but also this up-and-coming conversation about menopause and menopause hormone therapy. So yeah, it the conversations are getting out there, but I'm worried about what those conversations are.

Yeah, right. Yeah, it's it's not just the information getting out, it's the context around it and who's delivering it to who, right? Um gosh, it's what a strange time. Uh so I know you uh you undoubtedly probably have a busy day. I want to respect your time. So just a couple more questions here. Um I guess what what do you what do you need right now? Like uh, you know, if our people are listening, um, you know, who do you want to talk to? What kind of conversations are you looking to have? Yeah, what's uh what's important to you right now in your in your work?

Um innovation, really. Um I think for me, because I've been in this for so many years, that I'm seeing it becoming more rote. And I'm also seeing the misinformation of that roteness. So having more conversations that are in-depth and also finding some innovation within some of the things that we're doing, like working with big touch companies and AI generating companies to make sure they are actually creating actionable things for women and not just having the shrink and pink idea. Um, because all of this is becoming more and more global, and there's lots of influencers on social media that may or may not have the right information, that if we can have a larger touch that's not social media driven, that is actionable and is appropriate for women, I think that's going to go really far for helping close the gender data gap, helping close some of the discrepancies we see in healthcare and performance potential. Um, and it also will trickle trickle down into the general person who's on the floor of a gym doing PT because those conversations are open and then they can actually empower their female clients and get more out of their female clients.

Awesome. And there's so many places people can go to find information on you and everything you put out there. But is there a couple centralized points that you like to send people to? Email, social website.

Our website, dr drstacy sims.com, um, is kind of the centralized site. You can sign up for our newsletter and blog, keep keep track and get like um information every two weeks on a new topic, um, has stuff about our courses, stuff about the research that I'm doing, social media, insta, and if you're on Facebook, if we're still on Facebook, uh you get uh daily hits of information specific for women, try to post um different links for PDFs and things when we're referencing. Um yeah, and then yeah, where am I? I'm all over the world this year, so people can find me pretty much anywhere.

Back out and about. I love it. Out and about. Last question. If there's one reference, one reference that you would recommend for women to start this journey, right? What what would that be?

Scientific reference or a resource?

Resource.

A resource. Oh I don't know, because it depends on if they are pre-menopausal or not. Yeah. If you're a pre-menopausal, then you know, jumping on something like Catherine Ackerman's website from Harvard Children's Hospital about the female athlete and things to look for. Or if you're a peri and postmenopausal, then looking at Jen Gunter's site, or you know, I'll I'll always self-promote my books and things too, right? Next level for peri and postmenopause. Um those would be the three big ones for really good sound information.

Awesome. Well, Doctor, thank you so much. This has been really uh, gosh, I feel like I've had the opportunity to really extract a lot of information out of you. And we just really scratched the surface, right? And there's so much more to go. So maybe if if you will, I would love to have you back in about a year or so and see what's what's new. And uh it's it's been a lot of fun. So thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Stacey Sims. Thanks. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This was your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futurofitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.