Dr. Nestor Rodriguez - From Academic Medicine to Telehealth Scale: Carbon World Health's Medical-Fitness Integration Model

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to future of fitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now on to the show. One theme keeps coming up: the right technology can make or break your business. That's why I'm thrilled to introduce our new presenting sponsor, Perfect Gym. Perfect Gym isn't just another gym management system. They are part of the Sport Alliance Group, Europe's leading fitness software company that has officially entered the US market. Now, I've seen this movie before, but here's the difference. They've opened up a U.S. headquarters in Boston because they understand that the American market deserves dedicated, localized support. After digging into the platform, one benefit especially stood out. They are simplifying the nightmare that keeps business owners up at night migrations. These guys were able to migrate one mega client with more than 250 locations in six different countries in just 20 days between two payment runs, no disrupting operations, no member loss, one seamless operation that simply works. Now, if you have ever switched platforms, you know how terrifying that process can be and how truly impressive that feat is. They've invested a ton into this platform, and now they're bringing that European engineering excellence to America. The migration experts have arrived. Check out perfectgym.com where enterprise level sophistication meets operator freedom. Hey friends, if you are serious about the business of fitness, please block off February 2026 for the Connected Health and Fitness Summit in Los Angeles. This is where operators, founders, and health tech leaders go to get a grip on what's next. AI integration, wearable tech that drives retention, GLP1 market impact, longevity strategies, and so much more. All the stuff that is reshaping our industry right now. Three days of real conversations with people building this space, not just talking about it. You'll leave with partnerships and playbooks you can actually use. My listeners get 10% off with the code FOF10. Link in the show notes. I hope to see you there. All right, here we go. Dr. Nestor Rodriguez. Welcome to the future of fitness, my friend. How are you?

Pretty good. Thanks for having me. Been looking forward to this for a while. So glad we're making it happen.

I am really looking forward to the conversational topics that we have for today. You know, we're just jamming. I've had the opportunity. I think you and I first met at the Athletec Innovation Summit randomly over lunch or breakfast last year, and we kind of kept in touch. And, you know, I'm really, as people follow this podcast too, they'll start to see that I'm I'm very fascinated with the intersection of medicine and traditional fitness, right? It's it's incredibly promising in my mind. Like that merge. We've been talking, I've been talking about it ever really since I started in this industry 17, 18 years ago. I've been trying to figure out ways to collaborate with you know medical practitioners and how do we bring them because that's what we do, right? We bring in behavior change, we have a certain piece of overall health, but like you can't ignore how powerful and incredibly um established the medical environment is. Like, so there's there's just a lot. So we're gonna talk about um you know what you guys are doing specifically at Carbon World Health. I think it's a really interesting model. I think there's a lot of models, similar yet different, kind of popping up all over, you know, the country, North America, the world really. I know you you go around, you speak on a lot of different things, topics about like, you know, what is the actual collaboration between the medical and fitness industries look like? What would you constitute as a medical expert? And I say that with my finger quotes here, right? Right. And then uh, you know, how how how doctors in the medical profession can maybe communicate a little bit better nowadays, which I think a lot of people feel and are aware of. So let's start with this, man. Uh, you know, it's always good. Just give a little bit of backstory, you know, kind of a brief history of how you got to start carbon world health, and then we'll uh we'll take it from there.

Yeah, for sure. So for carbon, we started about 15 years ago before kind of the wellness space is what it is now, and you know, biz buzzword, so to speak. So I was in academic medicine. So that that's important to state because academic medicine is a whole different monster, right? And in the medical field, that seemed like the ivory tower, you know, for a patient perspective. If if I told you I'm a physician but a professor, you know, a lot of people would be like, oh, oh my God, what does that mean? Versus like I'm just a doctor, right? And so during that process, I'm board certified in emergency medicine. And at that time, two things happened. One was there was these executive programs that were creating. And many people know about those, but I would say a large population still don't. And what those are are basically like, hey, Eric, you you have a certain amount of money, you have a certain amount of title in your company and the C-suites of like high executive levels. So the company is gonna invest in you, right? They're gonna send you to Dr. Rodriguez to get a complete evaluation every year, right? You come for three days, we're gonna do what do you want to do? You want all those things that you ever wanted your doctor to get and they fought you for, they're gonna be like, sweet, let's do it. But it's cash K and it's it's almost like invite only, right? If you want to go, there's a wait list. At the same time, professional athletes, remember in the NFL, they were getting injured on the field. And through to that time, they just had orthopedic surgeons, psychiatrists, neurosurgeons, so people that evaluate them off the field, right? Their injuries thereafter, but not real time. And so they started getting, you know, emergency medicine doctors or sports medicine folks to be like real-time doctors for the ph for the athletes. And I happened to be one of them, right? I was a consultant and worked with a lot of UFC, MBA, NFL. So I saw both both of those worlds, and then I'm also day-to-day in the emergency department, right? Where all hell is breaking loose, it's organized chaos. You see where the system's broken, you see where the client is is kind of ignoring signs and and everything in between. So to us with my wife, we wanted to create a space where we can incorporate all this, right? I I I don't I had a problem with one day I treat Eric one way, and the next day I treat Eric a different way just because how you came to me, right? And at the same time, I saw the approach that the professional athlete, the executive looked, which is like, I don't want to be, you know, normal. We normalize being suboptimal in America when it comes to health, not with finances, not with career, not with relationships, or not with social media, right? But for our health, we're like, eh, I'm fine. That's the answer I get. So for us, we wanted to create a space where we all want, so it's a one-stop shop, Health, Fitness and Beauty. And we wanted to create that. And that's where we brought fitness because the biggest thing for us was fitness is always there and we always recommend it, but no one ever talks to it. Right. And even in my own experience, I got a personal trainer because you know, I played soccer all my life in college, and I would go to the gym, I did the same workout. And if I was tired, I'd be like, eh, see you later. Two little things. I expected my body to change. So we we were like, if if Tom Brady or the elite need personal trainers and need a staff, why won't the average person do it given all the other stuff they have in their mind? So we put it all together. You know, people thought we were crazy. You know, everyone in academics were like, your career, I was pretty high up in that ladder, and and my goal had always been to do that. But we took we took a leap of faith with my wife. And you know, 15 years here, we're we're growing the spaces here and and and we're leading the way. So it's been awesome.

That's a great story, man. And it's it's such an excellent point that you made about we just accept suboptimal health. We want to excel and be elite in so many areas of our lives, but like health, we I guess it's maybe because people don't know how to even track it most of the time, right? We just we have some blood work that not even, I feel like in my this is my experience only, like not even my medical like experts in my life, my doctors really care that much about my blood work, they kind of breeze over it, but like, all right, nothing nothing extremely bad to worry about here, like carry on. But we just don't know how yet. And then and the consumer's getting so much better educated now due to numerous factors, and I think it's it's a very um opportunistic time for everybody to take that that leap into you know optimal health, not just for you know the Tom Brady's of the world, but like everyone, right? I think it's it's it's getting there. Walk me through this is always a good place to start. Like, what is the client experience at Carbon World Health? What does that start with and how does it run through?

Yeah, so we we started originally, it was obviously brick and mortar right now. We've gone to to telehealth and we could do it you know across the nation. But for us, it's coming in and having a consult and really establishing your why. And the why can be for multiple reasons, right? And then it's what why you're sitting in front of me, what's the question, what's the concern, what has brought you to me? And then it's six months from now. You take expense out of the picture, what would the new Eric look like in six months? And then we come up with a plan of okay, how does that look like, right? And I always like putting like good, better, best so people can look and say, and and that's gonna be cost also, but also where are you in this stage of longevity or in your health journey? Right. Because sometimes people are either an extreme, we're like, there's no hope, I'm so far behind, I can't do this, versus the extreme of like, I want to try everything, everything I hear I want, and everything in between. So for me, it's to get data. So we use a body composition scale so that your weight's not your weight. Because I tell people really, if you want to gain or lose weight, you really what you're telling me without telling me is like you want to look good and you get her in your clothes, right? That's that's really what you want to say. That's it. And people say it's vanity. I'm like, no, it's not, it's reality.

It's just human nature, man. Just we like to look at it. I mean, you're a more confident person if you look good.

Correct, correct. And and then we look at your labs, right? And we say, we're gonna look at your labs how I look at the hospital, because I'm still full-time at the hospital, but how we look at it at carbon. And the difference is that, right? When when I say the healthcare system's broken, what I mean by that is when I speak, is I tell them we're great at picking up stuff, but we're bad at saying like you're low empty. And the analogy I like to use is the gas in your in your car, right? If you're a fine tune, if you have a Ferrari, Lamborghini, what do they tell you? Even a Mercedes are like they tell you keep your gas, your oil, your brakes tipped off. But if you have a beater car, oh that red light means you got 25 more miles. I got 25 more miles, right? So that's the way I approach that. And so with labs, we look and say, look, this is this is the stuff that you need. This is the stuff, the extras. And then you look at like heart rate monitor of VO2 max, right? You you we come up with the data and then incorporate it and then look at all the noise, right? And I look and I tell people when I when hormones I break them down like this in three circles to complicate the HPA axis, but I tell them, your hormones are like your brakes, your oil, and your gas in that car. Every car needs it. So let's fix those, let's address those, and not not normalize them, but optimize them. Then everything else is me, you, Eric, being like, you know, we go to we've all been there where we go get a car, and next thing you know, you come out with all these accessories, and you're like, a year later, you've never used them, right? Light packets, seek massage. So that's what all the world of peptides, all the other services that are around now. So we kind of get that chaos, and we're like, this is specific for you. Because the number one problem I see, a client will come to me and say, I want to be on all of these things, but their hormones are bad. So that's like giving you a Ferrari with diesel gas. It's just not gonna work, right? Or vice versa, you're taking you're getting 10 different audio systems for your car because these 10 peptides do the same damn thing. So, like, why are you needing all this? It's because they haven't like thought through the process. So that's what we do. So we we're data driven and we're realistic. I don't care how driven you are, right? Like, I have to look at your life. What is this? Where are you? Can you meal prep? Can you work out? And and that's me kind of being reality with you of like, all right, tell me about yourself. What's your life like? What does it consist? You know, we have a lot of salespeople that come in and they're always on the road, they're on the grind. So for me to tell them cook, get ready, you know, pack all their stuff, that's just not gonna happen, right? And I think that's what people appreciate. Where we give them the data, we give them analogies that relate to them, and then we make it where it's easy for their life. Because once you start getting better, right? We all know now it's like, man, this is cool. Oh, if I could, if I feel great here, let me take it to the next level. I had a doctor, one of our employees. It's funny because we're gonna open another location with them, and I give them crap because I'm like, all right, longevity, how where are you? Zero to ten, ten's like the extreme, kind of like the Brian Johnson's in the world. Zero is like, I don't care. He's like, Oh, I'm at nine. I'm like, well, what are you doing? What do you mean, what am I doing? Like, are you are you do you do red light, cryo, work out? He's like, No, I just work out. I'm like, well, you can't be a 10 or an eight or a nine without like incorporating what these biohex or whatever names we want to call them. He's like, Yeah, you're right. In theory and in belief I am, but not in actuality. So that's what we do at Carbon. And I think people appreciate that because we're pretty honest. We talk to them like this, and we break down the medical knowledge in a different way, and then we're real to their life.

So when you look at like in your um practice here, because you have a you have two facilities, right? Is one fitness and one's like health and longevity, or is it like it, or is it are they both are are there are both services under the same hood in both locations? Like, how is that broken up physically?

Yeah, so so it's all under one roof. And and the what we strategized when we began were a couple of things. One was we knew people were gonna come in. So you have two entrances, right? You can come into the fitness side or you can come into the wellness side. And in the back, it's our job as employees to make sure that all of them work to the point where on our fitness side, what we do is we eliminated the excuses even I used in the past. So on the fitness side, our tiers are monthly, and so we knew we had to challenge the per session thought process of selling versus a monthly, which is like rent car payments, right? But it's unlimited training. So there's not a per session. You just have to show up. So then if Eric, you're tired, you're you're just beginning, you have a 20-minute workout, you don't feel like it's a waste because you know, you're lying there for 20 minutes, you only work out for 20 minutes, but your session's 60 minutes, and you're like, crap, I just lost the money. Two, there's no scheduling because that's another excuse people would say, ah, well, you know, sorry, trainer, I already took my spot. Sucks. Like I get away, I don't like I'm not gonna work out, right? Then we incorporate it where all our we have tier memberships, and depending on the tier, they all have some type of recovery associated so that we can tell people, hey, recovery is not just I'm hurt, or recovery is not just substance abuse, recovery is like every part of your life, and you and you have to incorporate it, otherwise, it's not gonna work, right? Doing it once in a blue moon doesn't make any sense. And then we also then, if they need hormones, if they need IV, so we make it where it's like, hey, you're as you go up the tiers, you're integrating this into your overall life. And so from that, let's say, for example, we have a lot of females on hormones because they see that, right? They've seen how guys change and seen what what their bodies are, and vice versa. We have a lot of guys on cosmetic stuff like Botox, fillers. Like my wife says, Hey, you work so hard on your body, but the face is the first thing you look, so like don't look beat up. And and companies that have come out to us, they're like, Man, how do you have so many guys on Botox? It's because of that, right?

Every second secretly wants it.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Like it's just you just gotta give them space. Yeah, exactly.

And that and that's the space that we provide where everyone comes in for whatever they want, but then it's us as providers, as us as like professionals to educate them as to why they should consider something else and consider it at the time that they want to achieve the goals.

And so you guys are uh in Madison, right? And then you have another location in Prairie. What was it, Prairie?

Uh Sun Prairie, and then yeah, we're opening one in the Dells, which is Wisconsin. We have a partnership with uh California Cosmetics out of Los Angeles, Beverly Hills area. But our next locations are are gonna be in the big cities. So we're we're we're looking targeting LA, Chicago, New York. I think those are the next ones that we're we're looking to go out to.

Nice. What would uh no nothing in Whitefish, Montana, though? That's not uh not what you're doing.

You convince me to go there, I'm I'm there. I want and this is the thing with like partners, is that's kind of like that.

Somebody to come here, man. Like, you know, I love my gym, but uh I love all this stuff that you're talking about. What would on average, right, for a member, what would they what could they expect to pay monthly for for what you guys do?

Yeah, so anywhere from like at 250 to like all in, you're looking at like 1500 a month um with the services that we're doing. Because again, it's the it's not the once at time, it's the incorporating there. And we always tell people, like my job and is to let's say it's there we have a lot of clients that you know finances are an issue, which is great, right? So then it's like, okay, here you go. Or the people that do have some financial constraints, it's my job to tell them what's bank for their buck. And I think that's what's missing when we look at social media. I was at a conference recently, and man, it was crazy. I I came back and and there was a lady speaking, I don't want to put names, so it's called drama, but like it's it it basically everyone's she's she's telling all the things she does, and forget and what they're forgetting to say is well that's her job. Right? All these companies are giving her all these things, and she has them at home. You know, she's the most monitored female in the world, and probably you would know who that is now by saying that because that's what her name is, that's what's her tagline, and people are taking pictures left and right. And I'm like, Yeah, but that's crazy because you don't have all this. Even I have a center, I don't have all these things in my home. And you know, she mentioned I spend my first three hours of my day tracking all my metrics. Who the hell has three hours of their day? Unless that's their job. So you have to put realism to this and then see what what how you want to spend the money for your biggest, you know, leverage your bank for your buck is what I tell people.

And are you uh and I dude, this age that we're living in of like longevity celebrities is so weird. It's fun, you know, it's fun. Like I'm entertained, but it is a little like you take a step back and think this is odd. Like uh tell me about telemedicine. So you guys are branching out in that way. Like, what is what kind of services do you guys offer in the telemedicine? Because that's a really I imagine that's a really nice complimentary cash flow for you guys coming in as well, right?

It is, it is. So we do from a fitness side, we have a fitness app, so so we we can provide that to our clients who travel a lot, or just to give education on like how these exercises are, you know, you have access to our trainer, so we can help you in that as long as you're going to any other gym. On the wellness medical side, we basically, let's say you do have places you know around your surrounding, like cryo, well, we advise you how often do you do it? Red light, how often do you do it? Right? IV therapies, how do you do? Those are things obviously you have to be here because we can't and you need a physical space. But as it relates to like medications, hormones, GOPs, you know, nutritional plants, things like that, we all do it virtually, and we can get labs anywhere in the country. We can get imaging anywhere in the country, even to the point where they can go to your office if you needed to, or you needed that time back. And then we we go through all that. We ship medications all across the U.S., the pharmacies we deal with have licenses all throughout. So we make it relatively easy so that you're just, you know, you're guided, and then we meet every month. I think that's the important part that even if you're doing it well in the hospital.

Today's episode of The Future of Fitness is proudly brought to you by EGIM, a vertically integrated market leader in the fitness and health industry with an incredible vision, transforming healthcare from repair to prevention. I've been a huge fan of EGM's team and technology for years now, and I can tell you that their commitment to innovation is unparalleled within our industry. Here's what makes EGM so special. They partner with companies to improve employee health by providing access to fitness and health facilities. Then they equip those facilities with cutting edge smart gym equipment and digital solutions. The benefits are clear. Companies see reduced healthcare costs and increased productivity, while fitness facilities benefit from a growing engaged membership space. What really excites me is EGIM's smart fitness ecosystem. By combining their strength equipment with AI-powered software and their corporate wellness platform Wellpast, they are leading the shift to proactive preventative health. This isn't just AI for show. This is the real deal. If you're interested in learning more about eGim and how they're transforming healthcare through exercise, visit eGym.com. That is EGYM.com.

We just missed, right? So let's use GLP once, right? At the hospital, I'm giving it to you. You're to your own devices. I tell you to work out, I tell you to eat better, but we know historically that doesn't mean anything. As soon as you leave, who cares? Out of sight, out of mind. And then I don't see you for nine months, right? So then you blame a system or you blame the tool for like your own behavior. And I always tell people why to work with us, even if you're not from around our neighborhood, is that consistency, that accountability, and that professional expert advice. Because all you hear is one the tool. But I always tell people a tool or hammer, you could break a window or build a home, right? Don't blame the tool. It's just how you use the tool. And then insanity, I always tell when people when I speak, it's like when we ask people what's insanity, they're always going to tell you, well, doing the same thing, expecting different results, right? But I always tell them insanity is also knowing what to do, and you don't do it. And that's the majority of us. Like we know what to do. We just don't, right? Do you exercise? Well, you know, I should. Uh I don't have time, but you will have time for that extra meeting to make that extra buy. Right? Like, you'll you'll have time for things that you prioritize. So we all have it.

What is it? If you want to know your what you value, look at your credit card statement in your calendar.

Yep, yep. And I always I do that. You know, I make this when I speak, I'm I'll tell people, all right, now you talk to strangers, give your your your two-letter two-minute elevator pitch on like your health, and everyone's like, oh my god, I do this. And I'm like, well, pull your phones out, show your calendar because you schedule everything that's important to you, right? And and I recently started doing that even with my wife, like relationships, like with my kids, I'm like, okay, what does it look like to be a good dad? A religion, what does it look like to travel and you know, grow in faith? And now, if you look at my calendar, it's that I have an hour for for Bible study, I have an hour with like conversation with my kids, with my wife. Now it's on schedule, like everyone sees it, everyone can call me out, there's no excuses, and and I have to explain why I missed that appointment. And it's kind of made like wonders in all my relationships in my life.

That's fantastic. You know, and you kind of answered this by seeing your expansion plans. But I was gonna see like how how scalable is this for you? Like, do you do you need to multiply Dr. Nestor across all locations? Or is this something you can find people with with uh you know suitable medical skills who have the desire to do this and run it and you train them? Like, yeah, how how do you how do you see the scaling out?

Yeah, so so it's interesting because we looked at every which way and option, and you know, you could scale it in multiple ways as long as you bring the right people, right? From a fitness perspective, one of the strategies we've done and done well if if they believe in the process is we've partnered up with gyms that can't provide that, nor have the leverage or bandwidth to do that. So we partner up, we share revenue and on the back end, but it's a win-win, right? The gym is offering another service that then adds more value to why pick that gym. And then we get clients there and then a back end, you know, we're a cool business. So that's one, right? And even from a trainer or coaches online, we tell people, yeah, you could tell them to go get labs somewhere, you could do that, but then you have to interpret that, right? Like, why not partner with us? We interpret. Our game is not to steal you away from them, our ours is to stay with you because you're doing all the other work. We're just providing those, you know, what's under the hood, so to speak, to be functioning perfect so that your strategies and your plans are working even better. The other then becomes like what we've done in the Dallas, for example, is then people who want to go in this space are scared to do it, want someone that they can relieve because of the standard operating procedures, right? The education. You've probably been to numerous places, and I always joke around when you go, man, it annoys me sometimes when I hear some of these speakers because it's just like you're giving it fluff, right? Like I already know that. Like, I already know what dystopian is, I already know what fitness is. I like I want the real deal or the business behind it, and no one ever does it. And and it's because of fear of competition, but like there's billions of people, right? Like you should be able to spread this and collaborate so we as a group rise all together. And so we partner with groups. For example, one of them is in LA. It was a cosmetic place, it was a physician and a nurse practitioner, and they're like, hey, we have a big name in the cosmetic space. I don't have the time to learn all this, I don't have the time to build this. Can we co-brand with you guys and grow as a business? And it's been great. Or now where we're looking at, we looked at franchising, which a lot of play people have done. But to be honest, there's some franchises that have brought more business to us in Madison because once you dilute it, right? Like if I tell you, Eric, here you go, run carbon, you're not gonna run like and there's no communication between us, it's gonna be two different experiences, right? So for us, more of the partnership is what what we're scaling through, where then you know I oversee things, I'm your direct questions, you know, you're reassured we can scale in terms of where we get product, how do we vet product, and and and do those strategies. So that's been our approach.

Yeah, it's a very it's a very challenging model to franchise right now, just due to multiple reasons. And anything in the medical wellness space is there's some people doing it, and they're they're they're forging some some roads right now for for a lot of other people, but I don't think I'd want to be first first to that that model and and do it.

Even some of the if you look at what what's happening, which is kind of brilliant, and and I'll give props to function health, huh? They done it. They basically what I just told you that I can get labs anywhere else, that's what they do, but they made a business out of it. Right? They still use Quest, cool I use. They just said, come pay me for a membership and I'll order your labs for you. Right. To me, I'm like, why pay a membership where you could just come directly to me to order the same lab? And I save your money, plus I talk to it, right? Like, but but I get it, they have a huge mark in there, a billion dollar. Like, I like it. I was like, damn, why didn't I think about that sooner? But when you look at it from a medical, like they're just providing, they're like the intermediate, like what we used to be with tickets. I'll hook you up with tickets, tell you me I got you. Yeah, don't worry where I got the tickets, here you go. So you're seeing that a lot.

It's it's UX. And I mean, you know, I work with Dr. Galpin and the team at Vitality Blueprint, and the you know, it's similar. We're we're going after, you know, where the coach meets the client. We want to put this in into the coach's hands. And but we're very aware, like uh, you know, it's it's right now it's it's all about UX. How do you interpret the data and deliver protocols that can actually give better health outcomes, which is very critical. But I think the biggest competition in this space and most spaces is chat GPT, right? Like we were talking about this part, even for like the medical field, where um I've talked to numerous people, it's not just me, who like have you know feed their the first place they go for medical questions, right, is ChatGPT. And it's much better than it was a year ago, and it's gonna be much better next month at what it is, it's not perfect. And I'm sure you know a lot of medical professionals are like, dude, you can't get your advice from ChatGPT. Well, you shouldn't. But people do, and that's that's the kind of the way it goes right now. So yeah, man, I'm curious here on your thoughts. Like, how how are you guys looking at that? I mean, it's got you got to be paying attention to it, but it's probably nothing you can do about it anyway.

No, but but we are so so we approach it in that it's here to stay, and how do we leverage it, right? So I'll tell you two scenarios, right? Because I'm still full-time practicing. So from an emergency department, right? A lot of the stuff that I want them to use that, right? I want them to one, understand what the process is going to be, but understand like also emergencies, when do you have to go and when do you not like that initial like education? So when I walk into the room, I have less time, we can be on the same page, right? Like we kind of understand each other in the the space for like carbon, it's like, well, meal pans, nutrition, right? Like things that used to take forever, you know, it's there, or what you could educate yourself on. I think what what doctors shouldn't fear is, or what I should I would tell people as a as a client or a patient, is like you guys don't necessarily know the questions to ask, right? Because that knowledge isn't there. So Jad GPT is great depending on how you ask. Right. So we can both write a blog right now on a topic. That blog's gonna carry some fundamental differences because of the approach and because of the knowledge we've developed as a medical expert through time. It's not to say you can't get that, but like you're you're you're you're not gonna dedicate your years like we did for that, right? So I think that's one thing that people have to know. It's like, well, how are you asking it? And then the other is how do you personalize it without knowing what questions to ask versus the so I think as a tool to get the initial playing field to get up to where we wanted to have those deeper discussions, Jet GPT is awesome, right? Like same with podcasts, right? To learn to do that. But then it's like, how does that apply to me? Well, are you asking the right questions? And that's where I think there's knowledge, like my credentials come into play. And so at the hospital, I always tell people let's not be scared of it at carbon. I'm like, it's not, and and it's helped us. Like, hey, I don't know, Eric, you tell me about the new peptide that I've never heard. I'd be like, well, let me look at it. I'll use Japan GPT myself too, but then I can see it in a different way. Right. Right. And and that's I think that's the difference or the importance that people have to like kind of take to.

In a slight shift here, I want to talk about a couple things about the medical profession because you're in it, right? Most of the people I listen to this are probably not medical experts. A couple things like that we had talked about, like how can we collaborate and communicate between fitness and medical better? Right? Like what what ways can we can we do that? Um how do you think medical experts can take a step towards fitness uh community? You know, uh, I feel like there's a lot of one way like fitness over time has always pushed to the medical community and be like, hey, we want to be part of this and maybe reject it a little bit. So let's start with that. Like, how can we do this better? How can communication happen better? Who who needs to do what from your perspective to make these type of collaborations more successful?

Yeah, I I think it's it's both, right? And what I mean by both is is both like let's use the word vulnerability to say from a fitness side to say, hey, what are my fears to partner up with medical? And the fear is always like that we're gonna push medicines or that we're gonna push some type of treatment or that people are gonna stop working out because of X that you gave them. And and that that can't be true, right? Because let's take testosterone, for example. And I tell guys, I'm like, I would be a billionaire if I can give you a testosterone and you're ripped like the guy you see on Instagram. No, they still did the work, right? Like you might have a better erection, sure, but like, but but that's your body composition, right? And so they have to say, like, I we hear a lot of that from the fitness people that we try to approach our work with, they're like, no, my fear is like, you know, oh, I don't believe in that. I'm like, that's like saying, well, I don't believe in hit. Like, why what do you mean you don't believe? You don't believe in medicine. So I think that, like, where's the fear? What's the understanding? And then from a fitness professor is also like, how do you want to incorporate help? Right, because it can't just be movement. Like you have to understand, like, get a little bit of knowledge of these medical problems that are most common, right? Like, how can things affect what things to monitor, right? I was a heart rate monitor, for example. No knock on orange theory, but like the orange zone. Well, yeah, but if you're in shape, you're not in the orange zone. Like, good luck trying to get my wife in the orange zone, right? Like it's it's you have to put context to it, right? And you have to look at how often are they in red, how quickly they recover, how does that make sense rather than just using a technology? And then on the medical side, yeah, long are the days now where we can just say work out. And and I'll call, I I call, I'll throw myself in this. Fast forward five, 10 years ago, I wasn't in the shape I am now. And yet I'm giving fitness advice, I'm giving health advice, right? My wife's always saying, like, people gonna hate me for saying this, but like you walk in and and like your cardiologist is in the worst shape ever. Like, that's like how are they gonna listen to you, right? Like you have to do.

Whether it's conscious or subconscious, people are thinking that.

Correct. And and and and doctors, we have to know that, right? And then two, we even have to say, okay, what is fitness? Because they don't teach us that, right? They they teach us to eat well, work out, movement is good in med school, but that's it. Like, right? We don't go beyond that. So we have to then I had to take classes, right? I had to take certifications. I had to see, like, okay, how are they thinking about things, how are they incorporating things, and then how can then I teach? So for us, like our trainers love that because I'm teaching them about medical problems, right? I'm showing them this is how I'm viewing it, and they're like, oh, I never looked at it that way. So I think those conversations have to be had in a safe space so that we can move the needle because again, we're both in isolation, makes enough sense because we're both trying to accomplish the same thing. And so those conversations need to have, and those partnerships, they might seem awkward, they might see, but it's like, hey, throw us in a room and be like, Eric, we don't know what the hell we're doing, but let's do it. I have this knowledge, you have that knowledge, and let's make it work. And I think that's what needs to happen. And then we have to show up, right? If you look at, you've gone to tons of conferences, right? It's it's only one group or the other, right? Like, why aren't we inviting each other? Why aren't we having people speak about these things, right? And for me, that's where I try to like submit my name for like fitness, and they're like, Well, you're a doctor, what are you gonna talk about? You're missing the point, right? Like, I'm not sitting here to say bad fitness is bad. I'm telling you how do you incorporate these things, and vice versa. You know, fitness professionals in in fitness space have to come to these medical conferences to show us what they're doing, to talk about like how they view things so that we learn and go from there.

Well, I I think that's part of Dr. Uh Peter Atia Tia's success. Yeah, is he uh he looks and speaks fitness, but he brings medical with him. Right. Like and you know, right place, right time, you know, Silicon Valley, right? A lot of success, a lot of a lot of factors that have led to his success and you know the book and everything. But I think that's uh you know, I think that's something that like you you go to a we were at the Athletech event. Everyone looks amazing. Physically, right? You're like, okay, these this looks like a fitness event. I don't know what event was it, HFA or Connected or Beyond. I was at one of these events, and then like we had our fitness event on one floor, and then you go two floors up and there is some other convention in another industry. I'm like, there's a freaking noticeable difference, right? Um, in how these people look. But you talk about, you know, getting in that room, people need to talk about those things. But I think the challenge is like you said, getting people in the room, right? Or initiating these conversations. And I agree, conferences that, you know, if there was a conference that was specifically saying, hey, this is the convergence of medical and fitness, or at least a full like afternoon or morning on that topic, or a full day, even I think is worthy of it. But I think when you look at the operators, gym owners, uh, gym management, uh, you know, the entrepreneurial types, like how do they initiate these conversations with with the medical? Like, how does that start? Like that's that's the key thing. It needs to start.

Right. Yeah, and and I think it's taking off the you know, doctors, we're we're we're sensitive beings, I'd say, right? We we got the MD and now everyone's saying you suck and we're hearing it from everywhere. COVID put that. So I think just a little bit of grace in that, like, hey, I'm not attacking you. Hey, I I can we have this conversation. And I always tell people if you can put those different hats, like, hey, this is a hat, not as a as a client, just as a business. Can we talk business, right? Like we were talking about carbon. How do you scale? Hey, this is as a business owner that's in fitness and I want health. How can we look at that, right? Because then that takes the like, what are you trying to get from me, right? Like, are you challenging me or I'm gonna be, I'm not gonna tell you I don't know, right? Because I'm scared. What are you gonna think of me as a doctor? So I think those approaches, but but you also have like, I'll tell you, I've submitted tons of like speaking engagements to fitness facilities that they're like, hey, you don't fit our thing because it's not a fitness, like I'm not teaching them how to do a hit, I'm not teaching them how to stretch, right? And I'm like, all right, that's crazy to me because you're talking about how do you incorporate health, right? And and vice versa, in the health spaces, you know, I've talked to trainers, they're like, hey, I've tried to speak at these things and they can. So I try to leverage that in the hospitals of like, hey, these are in committees I'm in where like we have to have these topics. Well, no one shows up, who cares? Like contents can be generated, right? It could be shared. Let's start having that. But it's it's a forced intentional conversation that needs to happen. Same with like doctors. I tell them longer the days, we were talking about this earlier, right? Where I'm gonna say, Eric, you got to do X, Y, and Z. You're gonna be like, oh, okay. Right? Like we have to have these conversations, and the way we relate and discuss these things have to change. So I always use finances, cars, those are things that people can relate to in their day-to-day life, relationships. Where then it's like a slap in their face or like, man, yeah, I should be doing this. Crap, you didn't put that, right? Like, I'm like, do you schedule fitness just like your high client meeting? Right, just like your C-suite meeting. Like, you cancel stuff for that meeting, you should be able to cancel other stuff for this if it's important to you. So I think it's the intentionality behind it. And yeah, that that's my goal. If we if we can create a conference or we can get into that and and and put and have those real conversations, not just kind of the upper level fluff that I call where it's you leave a conference, we've all been there, right? You leave and and the showroom's the more important part, right? The networking is the most important. The lectures, you're like, Yeah, sure, who cares? We gotta change that.

Yeah. Yeah, well said. Do you think this is the future? Okay, so let's let's let's go into the future here, Dr. Nestor. 2035, right? We got a decade. Do you think this type of model is where it's all going? Do you think the there is the will and the demand to drive something is into like a new norm? I hope so, but what do you what do you think? Obviously, you're probably betting on it.

No, no, I I think, yeah, you, you know, and people will say, Oh, it's easy because you own this business, but I but I say no, because the the amount of knowledge, the fingertips, chat GPT, people are starting, like you mentioned earlier, right? You said what was your first question you would go on Jat GPT? Was the questions that you wouldn't you you don't want to be judged on, right? Or the questions that you don't want to look dumb or whatever that that feeling you have. We never had to space that, right? So the alternative is I'm never gonna ask, and then I'm just gonna like go deeper in this hole. Now you can kind of like get your own confidence, you can get your own thing. The fear is then you can go to your own devices, right? And buy illegal stuff or or buy whatever without any guidance, right? There's a lot of companies, like even peptides, right, where they're they're selling to send peptides, but they're not giving you any advice. So it's up to you to figure out you got to get your own needles, you got like right, it becomes a complicated thing. But and so you combine that with the fact that our imaging is so good, our labs are so good, we're looking at what what do we have to look at? And people are turning away from insurance from day-to-day things to insurance for catastrophes, right? Let me pay. I'd rather pay out of pocket. And so I think it's it's it's changing for that because the technology is getting better and we're so damn good at it. So I think the medical field is at a bypass that we have to step up. We used to, I mean, no joke, right? Like if people thought I was a doctor, it meant something. Now I could I tell my wife, I'm like, man, I say doctor, and they're like, all right, cool, whatever. Let's let's keep it moving. And and and we feel it that way, right? Because we've kind of given up that seat at the table, and we're also not like on podcasts, right? I'm starting one to help with that. And even that nervousness of starting one, I'm like, finally, people are like, just do it. You have people to connect, you have big names, just be entertaining, talk the real talk. But we just that's not what we're taught, right? Like, we're not on social media, right? That's why you don't see the doc. Like for us, it's hard to just be like, all right, go promote. Because in medicine, we're never supposed to do that, right? But but the times are here, and yeah, I don't I don't think we're going back. But from a finance, unless something happens governmental and even the you know what the government's doing right now, I think yeah, people are want more, expect more, and you just have to be realistic. The unfortunate part is always a cost, right? Yeah. And and and you know, unless you do something like where, you know, that we're not going there, but you know, cost does matter. I think the more and more volume that that might bring the cost down, and then everyone can have access to it. But but yeah, like imagine, like I said, 15 years ago, the services you get, even like your app, which I'll talk about your act uh your platform because it's it's pretty legit and people should know about it. And I'm not just saying it because I'm on your podcast, because we're looking at it too. But think about 15 years ago, executive program was the only way you could get true blood work, you could get true imaging. Now there's resources that you can get it, right? And I would say it's cheaper than what it is to go to an executive program. So I think, yeah, the future is there. We just have to control who are the leading experts and who's guiding this process. And as physicians, we have to. I always tell people when you say doctor, and in Wisconsin, we just did this, right? And no offense against nurse. Practitioners, no offense against chiropractors. But I think the average person, when you say doctor, it's still you still think of something, right? There's still an expectation of training. There's still an expectation of what you live through and learn. And but that social media is eliminating that, right? Like we we we did, we're we're in Wisconsin, we just passed a law, and I was president of the Dane County Medical Society, and we were a big proponent for it, where it's if if you're not an MD or a DL, you could say doctor, but you have to explain in that same name in your title. Because you can't have people saying like you're a doctor and not knowing if you're a chiropractor, if you're a nurse practitioner. And to me, it's again, it's it's the training that matters, not the initial, right? Like the fact that I went to medical school, the fact that I had to take boards every year, right? The fact that I had to be certified, and then the fact that I had training. It wasn't just like I got out of school, go ahead and treat. Like we did residencies. We're looking at this, right? And we're constantly learning. I think that's the expectation if I tell you, doctor, that you and most people will have, right? But but that's not the case for everyone.

Yeah, and you know what? When we look at like the scalability of this over time, the cost has to come down. Right. And I think uh, you know, that's where technology obviously plays a very promising. We look over the history of time, technology has historically always driven the cost down. And, you know, using like Vitality Blueprint example of like, okay, now we have an intersection where a coach cannot worry about the scope of practice, right? Like if as long as they stick to the protocols, that Vitality Blueprint goes, and that that enables more essentially brings more value into a service that someone's already paying for, right? Like I don't think, you know, if if most coaches are using the platform are gonna charge a little bit more for the blood work, but they're not increasing their rates, right? It's just adding more value. And I think that's what we're gonna start seeing is like more and more technologies are gonna take problems that are in practice like yours that may be a bottleneck, but it's just gonna smooth it out so that it can allow, you know, more value to come in, or you guys maybe to lower the cost over time or keep it flat, which was essentially the same as lowering the cost over time, right? So yeah, it's it's some promising. And is there any area? So, okay, if I was gonna give you a magic wand, man, you're like, okay, here's one cost prohibitive thing for my service that I that I think can be solved in the next five years to lower the cost. Is there anything that you you identify in your practice?

Yeah, I think the medication cost, right? That the product cost is always because you know, this is the that and the the idea behind supplements and medication. And and I'll I'll tell you what I mean by that. So I'll start with the supplement medication. So, right now, right, when you look at what is a medication versus a supplement, and people arguing. I was with Sean Wells, which is one of the renowned experts, I interviewed him like a week ago, and I asked him this question, right? You're a guru, what do you say? It's like, no, I just can't say they're medications because I'm not a doctor and it's not FDA approved, right? But he's like, I want my supplements to be like a NASCAR car. I want all the certifications that we can have on my on my supplement bottle to be as pure as I can. And he also said, you know, there is the proprietary. The proprietor, they could tell you they have some ingredient in there, but it could be 0.001%. They didn't lie to you, right? It's in there, but the rest could be other crap that's in there to do. But somehow we think supplements are uh I'm fixed, I'm I'm optimized. It's like this is good. Medicine and I'm oh my god, I'm broken. And I'm like, no, no, no. The optimization broken is just how you think, right? I'm either investing because I want to make more money or I'm investing because I'm broke. You're investing. Like however you want to look at it, you look at it, right? So I think if there is a that mentality changes, then you could see like, okay, what am what should I take for what value? And then the medication. And then the reason I say the medication is just understanding our pharmaceutical pharma industry, understanding that you know you took a peptides, and right now the big play is the peptides are coming from the US. But let's be real, all ingredients are coming from China or India. Like, there's there's no, like, if right now we stopped with them, not only will our supplement, not only will our peptide, not only, but our real medications would go, right? So so everyone's saying this one's better because it's from the US, fine. You were using our patriotism, but not really. It's all raw materials are coming from there. And that changes, right? That changes the prices, that changes what you need to do. And so really that that's what goes up and down, right? Because the only other control that you can do is like the console. Like what's the what's the value of you talking to me? The time. You know, I just had a client came to me. He goes to uh he used to go to a a physician that just deals with the rich and famous, and you know, he he finally heard me. I don't know how he found me or what, but he's like, Master event, he taught me more in one hour than they did, and he was paying to 30 grand just because the doc is saying I'm to the famous. And at that point, I'm like, come on, what are you talking about? 30 grand, damn, right?

Yeah, and I think that's why it's not shockingly high for this type of thing nowadays either.

Like, but yeah, right. So when he talked, what was it, 60 minutes that Peter was on, right? Like recently, and that's what he said, right? He's like, I only see 60 patients and I make over a million. So like that we can control it too, but it's capitalism, right?

So like as far as you're open, if you're open about it, I think it's fine, right? It's like hey, that is capitalism, and may may upset people, but then go into that.

That's what I tell.

Go do what Peter Atia did, right? Go get it.

Correct. Yeah, people will call me and they're like, hey, I can get this cheaper. I'm like, yeah, you can get it cheaper, but you don't you wouldn't be act talking to me about it. So like if it's a cheap thing, yeah, go ahead. You you can you can get online, you can do all this, but if you want my expertise, my knowledge, my advice, the way I say it, like there's some value to that. And and then in that conversation, it's pretty funny because at the end of that conversation, like, damn it, all right, what else do you recommend? So he went from like I almost lost business to like I just made more sort of stuff. Yeah.

Last question for you, Dr. Nesser. I want to respect time here. Nayas on the behalf of, you know, with the purpose of collaboration, but what do you what do you need right now? You know, what what do you need help with if people are listening and they're gonna reach out? What would you like to hear from them about?

Yeah, no, it's a good question. So for us, it's the you know, what other creative ways that they think people can partner, right? Companies like ours in that medical space. And then it's also what what you mentioned, like technology, or like your platform. That's not how we started talking. But then as we learn from each other, you're like, this is a platform. And I even turned to you guys, and I'm like, dude, if you could if you change this or you at this component, like this thing's a game changer, right? So I think it's having those conversations and reaching out from that, and then yeah. And then if I can help in any way, obviously, then it's that where there's other businesses where they're at. We can consult with them, we can help them. And you know, you you hear consultants always like, this is gonna charge me? No, like I want our space to grow and I want our space to be right. And so that collaboration is what matters to me.

Awesome, man. Well, you have uh Carbonworld Health.com is the website. Is there uh any other places you want people to go?

Yeah, I would say if it's Carbon World Health, our Instagram or TikTok, we're gonna be if everyone gives me crap, it's because we're not, but now we hired a team, we're gonna see us all. We we're in a lot of cool events, we deal with a lot of cool people, and everyone's like, Are you serious? If I could take your phone away and put it on, and then you would grow. So follow us there. And then on my LinkedIn, uh, it's Nestor Rodriguez MD. A lot of good content. Even if you go on our website or blogs, I think people appreciate the approach. I always come from a what would you want to know of a question? Right? The last one was about you know testosterone and the fear of fertility, and and how do I approach that and what do we do? Any of that, uh would be great to have people follow, and it's more for learning and advancing this. Awesome, man.

Well, Dr. Rodriguez, this has been awesome, man. Uh, I'm glad we connected months ago. You know, I'm glad it took a little while, but we made this happen. And uh it's it's always a pleasure talking to you. So thank you so much for joining us. And uh, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Nestor Rodriguez.

Thank you guys.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Feminists. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.