Dr. Jeremy Koenig - DNA, Generative AI, & Gut Microbiomes

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Typerite, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases a product you've already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business to store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-ut.com. Just one o W-R-K-O-U-T. Go get it. All right, we are live. Jeremy Conan, welcome to the future of fitness.

Pleasure to be here, Eric. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, I I love our conversations. It's uh it's always insightful, um, fun. And, you know, I walk away learning something generally. And uh, you know, your background we'll get into in a minute, but you know, some of the topics we're gonna cover today, uh, DNA, genetics, artificial intelligence, data security. I mean, things are gonna go weird for a little bit here. So uh that's it's gonna be a fun, a fun journey. So that being said, and then setting the table there a little bit, let's uh let's start with your your background, Jeremy. How how'd you get to be you know athleticen and you know, executive coach and all the things that that you do?

Oh, totally by accident. Right. Um I mean, if we're speaking honestly, I mean, I I mean one thing's clear is is I've always been just fascinated by you know the DNA world. And you know, I think it was just like just just chance events, if I think about it honestly, where uh, you know, my mom was was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis when I was younger, and you know, she when she came home told us, you know, hey, don't worry, it's not genetic, as in as if to say, well, you won't inherit this, but it there is a genetic influence, but also there's part um you know, environmental impact as well. And so, you know, that was like 14, 15 when I was introduced to that. So I was like, Well, what is this DNA thing? And um, and there just happened to be some you know crazy stuff going around. I was, you know, growing up around the time, I was I was boxing as well. And remember, remember when um Mike Tyson bit off Holyfield's ear? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Right, yeah, that was wild.

Yeah. So so then there was something in uh I can't remember what it was, it was some you know, popular science magazine where they were growing ears on the backs of these transgenic mice, and I was like, What is going on? Um, you know, just because of the whole Tyson Holyfield thing. Um and you know, I just remember in in in in high school, it was like uh we had a homework assignment to um, you know, basically uh engineer the uh the plasmid that that um would take the construct of DNA that you wanted to clone. Um and and I just like stayed up all night trying to figure that out. I was like, what is this? Right. And and um it turned out I was the only one in my class that solved it. And it again wasn't because I was smarter, it was just I stuck with the problem longer. And and so that kind of is the you know, the the learning is like, you know, hey, sticking, sticking with the problem longer. And and that's you know what I'd say my you know, my sport background um was all about, where you know, boxing was really cool, but I learned quickly it didn't mix with my um genetics homework, you know, like sparring with guys twice your eight weight, you twice your age weight and experience, even if they're going light, uh just not good. So um, so I was like, wow, you know, I I I really like moving is um well, as it turns out, um moving and the endorphins um from that are you know kind of written in my DNA. It's a huge reward center for me. So fitness um was was always gonna be um instrumental to how I use my brain. And so when I went to university, studied genetics, Dalhousie University is like one of the only places in the country offering program at the time. Um, so again, like just totally luck. It's like I'm gonna go to the East Coast because it's the only place with genetics, and I like the ocean. Um, and it just so happened I got to um study under um Melanie Dobson for my my undergrad, who's the first um female road scholar, first human to ever see the Y chromosome being sequenced. Y chromosome is the male chromosome. And I and worked with Ford Doolittle in my PhD, and he was um, you know, we worked together to deconstruct Darwin's evolutionary tree of life. And this is actually where you know the fascinating parallels to you know AI will come into. We'll chat later on. Um, but you know, like I said, underpinning all that was kind of the fitness engine. So when I first got to university, I was like, you know, I need to move. Like I uh like literally need to move. And and where what is it for me to do that's socially acceptable, 10 to 20 hours a week to do this? And I was like, I don't want to spend so much time in the gym. And I just stumbled into track and field. Um, and uh and I met an amazing coach, right? And a coach who took me on, who, you know, I had zero talent. Uh, and he and he took me from like a 7.39 second walk-on to a 697 athlete. And you know, he got me there in like three months. It was just ridiculous. Um, and he was just uh, you know, he became a lifelong friend. Uh, he passed recently. His name is Garnet. He when I met him, he was uh, you know, probably 75, 75, my first year university. So it's like 20, 25 years ago. Um, and I say, I just want to I just want to make the track team. That's all I wanted was a coat, maybe, and and really just the excuse to be able to have it be socially acceptable to work out as much as I felt I needed to. And and he's like, okay, well, that's cool, but like, what do you want to do? Like, what do you want to contribute a hundred years from now? And let's back into that. Like, what are you tracking towards 10 years from now? And what are you tracking like three years? And what are you gonna achieve by the end of this year, three months, and now what are you gonna do today that's in alignment with that? So it's just like, whoa, what's this goal setting process, right? And then and then bringing the DNA element to it. It's like I'm learning about you know, all this precision molecular biology in the context of disease, which I was super passionate about. And and um, you know, I certainly did go deep down that rabbit hole with my studies later on in um in New York at Cornell University, looking at the interface of gut microbiome and DNA. But human performance always called me back, and fitness always called me back. And and so I I um, as you know, I started a company called um athletigen, which was you know very much focused on the intersection of athletics and genetics. And I was you know privileged to work uh alongside some of the best athletes in the world, some of the best coaches in the world, and um, you know, getting to a point of understanding that you know each individual um you know has this unique biology to be understood, you know, so so that they can consciously construct an environment that that allows for the authentic expression um you know of their innate abilities. Uh and um and then of course, you know, creating the right fixtures to to prevent um a career-ending injury through an Achilles tendon rupture or something like that, or oh, you know, introduce these nutrients because you don't absorb vitamin A well, and and that's gonna wreak havoc on your immune system if we don't address this. So I started to see like all these little marginal gains um that once you put them together translate to a significant um contribution uh that is to to an athlete's um success. Um, where dealing with you know percentages of a difference is like, well, this is really critical information. And um so yeah, that that's how I got into um you know the the the world of athletics and genetics. And maybe maybe I'll just pause there and and you know check in with you and have you steer me into the direction you'd he'd like us to go.

Yeah. Yeah, and it's it's it's genetics and DNA overall. I think we all um, you know, it probably comes up at a few dinner parties here and there. Uh, you know, we get to do, you know, it's it's become you know some consumer offerings, like you know, sending the the kits and um what it what it's what are the big ones?

Yeah, the big ones are uh 23me, N60 DNA, my my heritage. Those are the those are the big three, yeah.

Yeah.

And I presume, you know, similar I I kind of look at these things as like uh when wearables started to enter the market. Like as coaches, um, you know, as as consumers started to get information and data on their own health markers that were available, and that's obviously become more and more robust and varied um over time that they can get from wearables. That is, and then genetics, the same thing is like people are starting to pay attention to, you know, getting these tests. And um, you know, I do my mine through Inside Tracker and you got some interesting insights from there. So I feel like the consumers kind of drive that the coaches to learn more, right? Because they're gonna come to people and be like, you know, a client will come to a coach or a gym and you know, ask questions, like, hey, I got this report, you know, what does this mean? So that that starts to drive the thirst for knowledge in in our communities. Um, you know, what do you think if you're gonna sit down and and educate a coach and a trainer on the basics that they need to know about genetics and its current form, um, and be able to answer some questions and kind of look at it through that lens for their clients, what what how do you start that that advice?

Yeah, that's what a great question. Um, you know, but because it's interesting, like like what you just said is, you know, these DNA probably comes up at you know, dinner conversations. Um and and and as you stated, uh the you know, the ones early to market, the 23andMe and the ancestry DNAs and my heritage. Well, actually, just look at all those. Um, they're predominantly their selling feature or what they had been marketing, um, was predominantly ancestry and genealogy. Um and and by the way, 23andMe really only did that because, you know, they tried to start with the health route, but then um, you know, the FDA said no. And actually, you know, it's funny, it's right around the time that I started Athleticen, so you can imagine how difficult that made things. But um, but at the end of the day, um, you know, there there is so here's what's proven about DNA um consume the consumer genomics industry is um well, um when you get down to the molecules, uh we can we can have a deeper form of understanding our you know our evolutionary history relatedness, you know, through these through these algorithms, and that's pretty cool. Um, but now as far as the coach uh and you know the application of of DNA. So what are we talking about? Are we talking about uh coach of an elite athlete? Are we talking about a coach of you know 15 and under? Are we talking about you know, return to play after surgery? Are we talking about you know somebody who wants to live to 120? Like who's my coach coaching?

Yeah, I would say let's start with um the performance coach, because I find that many times at at the you know high you know percentages on either end of you know elite performers, um that stuff starts to kind of trickle down, the other end being you know, people who are very sick, right? Right. And everything then kind of blends into the middle of the population. So let's start with performers, uh, high performers and high performers.

Okay. Great. Well, that's convenient. That's that's that's where I started. So um, you know, I was just like I said, I just fell into it, pure luck. I spent time um well at the time when I started, it was the World Athletic Center. They've since rebranded to Altas. So, you know, the Dan Paps of the world and Stuart McMillan's and and and you know, these folks are on the just the cutting edge of you know sharpening the spear. Kell Kelly Strett, you know, who we both know and love, I you know I met him through through Altas as well. And you know, the really interesting thing about Altis was is um it was it's it's it's evolved into many more things since, but at the time it was, you know, this living lab where you could just like watch the athletes and me as my my background as an academic. And you know, by the way, a lot of my experimental design um during graduate school was much more uh on the hypothesis outcome, meta-analysis type stuff. Like, you know, how Darwin did his Galapagos Islands thing. It's like, oh well, these birds have different size beaks. And anyway, you know, decades later, here's the theory of evolution, kind of an aha moment. And that was kind of the aha moment that came to me with working with all these athletes and observing these different physiologies, right? Energy systems, let's say, you know, so you've got your um, yeah, your aglycolytic, your, your um uh aerobic and your HPPC. And if you think and you know, simply to track and field, you know, as you know, arguably the origin of um most sports, um, you you can look at track athletes and be like, okay, well, you know, if you're good at 100, you're probably gonna be, you're gonna, you're gonna have potential as a running back, let's just say, um, or a striker on the soccer field. And if you're a 400-meter athlete, maybe you're more like a midfielder. Um, if you're a high jumper, you know, maybe those ups are gonna help you in in basketball. But but the point is, is you know, you really measure the result in a very tangible way with track and field. It's basically distance and time, right? Um, compared to team sport, it's it gets more nebulous because there's so much synergy and get to this one, all this one plus one equals three. So it's like, how do you get to the genetic influence there? So so that becomes more difficult. So I give you those kind of two buckets for for elite sport where there's the individual performer, where it's very tangible results, and then there's the the team dynamic component. Now, of course, there's we can break down the the team sport player also because there are certain tangible things, like you know, think about the NFL combine. They have certain things that they have their metrics they have to meet. So there were ways to train for those things and those events that honor your genetics. Um, but you know, before we get to that, the first hypothesis outcome from this meta-analysis from looking at these hundreds of elite athletes in the track and field um realm uh is that broadly speaking, these energy systems distributed how you might expect. So we saw more of the sprint genes with sprinters. Um, we saw more of the anaerobic capacity and adaptation to threshold training through the middle distance folks. We saw more um tendon um uh resilience, let's just say, amongst the jumpers, um, more of the endurance genes with the endurance athletes. So all the things you might expect, all else equal, right? So basically, if you think back to your own experience in sport, we tend to gravitate to things that give us some kind of reward. So maybe that means winning. Um, so there's some kind of innate thing that we, you know, um is educed from us in some sport, like sprint sprinting. Um, can't remember who said it, but I remember reading once that everybody re everybody in track really wants to do the 100 meters, but those who can't just run longer until they find their their distance. Um I'm not I'm repeating it. So I guess I am saying it, but I'm not saying I believe that.

Well, I I I would say I I grew up swimming competitively all the way through college too. And man, I all I wanted to do was swim the 50. And I just wasn't that good, right? I got put into like the 200 meter, which is probably I was talking to a friend of mine who used to swim, like the worst. It's the worst. It's a prolonged sprint. There's nothing that makes you want to vomit more than that race. And uh I think it's kind of like the 800 and running, right? But it is, it's true. Like I just wanted God so bad to be a few because I watched them, especially towards competition time as it it got closer. They got to do almost like their taper was like tremendous, right? Like they basically did no work for like two weeks. They just got in the pool and swam for like 20 minutes every day, and we're all just grinding it out. Anyway, I I just wanted to anecdotally add that I concur.

You're right. There's nothing like a sprinter's taper, right? It's just like, okay, do a little bit of posterior chain activation, a little pop going on, speed mark, a few starts. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's amazing. Um so so with uh with respect to these, you know, the fallout of hey, here's here's where the chips lie in terms of this diversity on the energy system side. Uh, and talked a little bit about you know the the resilience to injury, um, you know, being concentrated more on the jumpers, but that was sprinkled around with the other athletes as well. Um so so I've talked about two um two buckets now indirectly. So one, there's the injury predisposition, uh so knowing that and and adjusting load um based on that, um, listening to the softer sounds much more carefully as a coach. It's like, oh, you know, my gastrox seems a little tight. And you know, we we we introduced more hill running this week, and and you know what? Like I do have these um patterns that I'm gonna run off the line as a um you know running back at the trials or combine coming out this week. So, you know, let's let's stay on top of, and now I know your genetics and vulnerability for an Achilles tendon rupture, which I believe they're like 63 or something in the NFL this year, um, which is yikes. I mean, that's that's a that's a lot. I mean, per capita, it's a lot, but uh just six just 63, like what's going on, right? And so certainly there's a genetic component there that if we knew that we you know, we do the load assessment differently. Um so so in I think you know, in injury is certainly the most well um studied area. And so so the first thing to say to the coach is like, hey, like if you're gonna guide somebody, maybe maybe um you know help them, you know, point them to where the quicksand is so they they can help them avoid it, you know. So so the whole idea of like no pain, no gain, like that that really doesn't work. Um if you've got an an athlete that's that's vulnerable to any of these issues and it takes longer to recover. So so so thinking about not just uh training intensity and volume, but the density, how you're spacing out, how you're being really proactive with the recovery. Um then on the energy system side, I mean, that's just really, you know, it was interesting. I got I was lucky um, you know, before I started athletes, I spent a few quite a bit of a few years anyway, five, six years working with um, you know, NHL athletes. And you know, the interesting thing was is like, you know, hockey players, um, you know, it's like every sport is its own little petri dish of of uh you know natural selection uh or artificial selection, I guess you know, like how dogs are artificially um you know selected for different traits. I mean, athletes are selected for different traits. And one of the things that selects athletes, hockey players, or at least used to, um, is their resilience to blue line skates. Um, what is it, you know, because blue line skates are this form of you know punishment, team unity, etc. You know, so you know, your ability to to do that, but but also, you know, to perform again and again with your with your you know in between your lines, um high intensity rests. So so so athletes who fared well professionally tended to um you know adapt really, really quickly uh to anaerobic threshold training. So when I would work with um hockey players in the summer, it's like we we would have their VO2 max where it needed to be in two or three weeks done. And then it's like all we need to do is pulse that a little bit to maintain the have that when they go up to training camp. So so I know this stuff about the energy system. It's like, well, okay, now I'm gonna I'm gonna spend more time on um the skills development or the speed uh power development or you know the frequency uh um uh or the drive phase of your skate. So you you get into a much more of a you move away. I think what DNA really gives us as coaches, um, you know, is the opportunity. Just with the injury um awareness and the energy system uh awareness, it gives us the opportunity to start to play chess instead of checkers. Where like, you know, if you think about the decathlon decathlete, you know, it's not about Being the fastest at everything. It's about being the fastest at the right things, the right combination of things.

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What based on DNA and the athlete's current state of development and their goals, what can we do with this new information to help facilitate this intrapersonal synergy in a way that, yeah, it it actually does look quite magical when you put it all together and feels effortless to the athlete because you're leveraging some of this innate ability. So two things I'd say to the coaches is show them where the quicksand is with the injury pre-uspicion. Start playing chess by understanding the energy system side of things. And then the third thing is more so on the nutrition side of things. So if you're thinking about training plateaus and burnout, of course, those first two things matter. But the third thing has a lot to do with well, how well do I, you know, how how good is my nutrition and metabolism engine, right? Um, you know, vitamin, you know, it was interesting because when we worked with Altis, one of the things we looked at was um, you know, the Hooper McKinnon survey, keep chronic training load um ratios for readiness, so to speak. And, you know, what we found was athletes who, you know, kind of started to dip into the you know, decreased mood and increased stress, were also athletes that um, you know, so think to your inside tracker information, they had a predisposition where they just didn't absorb vitamin B, uh the spectrum of vitamin B as well. And it's like, well, yeah, that's that's gonna have a negative effect. Um, and so in in that world, um, I mean, there's just a plethora of information to get to the root of why your athlete might be stuck um in a training plateau. So yeah, there's so quicksand, chess, and training plateaus are the three areas um that I think um the next generation of coaches are, I mean, they're the I mean, yeah, there's the AI, but there's the like the human-informed AI uh that's that's gonna really super empower these athletes.

Yeah, interesting. So uh you had mentioned earlier too the uh gut microbiome, and that kind of came up, you know, with nutritional things, but how much do we know? Like, obviously, there's a there's a connection to genetics when it comes to one's microbiome. I mean, I look at my mom and me, and you know, like we have our the same exact problems, right? Um so you know, what what have we learned in in that side of things? Because I think microbiome science is one of the most exciting things. I mean, it's not when you read about it, it's not titillating, right? But for the potential outcomes and what that means for like the gut brain biome or connection and emotions and and mental wellness and all those different things, it's really exciting, you know, what the potential outcomes. So what give us some updates maybe on genetics and microbiome from a high level, what where you think those that could go.

Yeah, okay, super high level. Um I mean, it's really interesting to think about um, you know, our bodies as, well, I mean, I I can't remember the number exactly, uh 10 10x bacterial cells to human cells in and on our body. Um I think it's like 100x number of genes, like bacterial genes living in it. So it's like, wait a minute, like if it's a numbers game, then who's really in control here? Are we just kind of this walking incubator for these microbes? And and by the way, they like do affect our behavior um by making certain neurotransmitters cross into, as you mentioned, the cut gut brain axis, like really interesting stuff. So, I mean, terrible experiments, um, but but noteworthy. Um, you know, studies where you know mice were basically placed on sponges and and floated in water. So they're just like terrified because they're gonna drown. And it just so then what and then what was measured was the effect on their gut microbiome. And so the the distribution of my of of um the kinds of bugs that live there changed. And that's interesting. But what was more interesting is when you took um the gut microbiome sample from a stressed-out mouse um and you put it into an unstressed mouse that never experienced this near drowning, that unstressed mouse got stressed out just by the microbiome, right? So pretty nuts. Yeah. And there's been research uh as well around the um obesity connection as well. Um, same similarly with mice, like taking um uh you know, bugs from obese mice and transplanting them to lean and um getting obese, and vice versa. So so that's that's pretty crazy. Um I I think what one of the other things that is like the here and now and already happening is um so if you think about C-section babies, um, they they bypass the birth canal. Uh and and usually um what happens is you know during birth is that the baby is colonized through the vaginal microbiome, so it actually comes out, you know, protected with um what the mother's been cultivating all along, um, as it's you know, call it um um innate immune response. So it's like a first offense. And and what's more is the the mother's milk um is enriched with these bifidobacteria, which by the way, it's been harvesting um from the gut. So there's this amazing um interface, this you know, cosmic computer of uh interaction between mother and child, uh downloading all this immune system information just on the environmental level. And by the way, the environmental component is so important if you think about, you know, so so by example, like if you if you have there's a big difference in a wet nurse who's local, you know, who let's just say would provide the the breastfeeding for a mother versus a milk bank that is decentralized or not local because the gut microbacter that you have um is enriched to the deal with the um required defenses in the environment that you're living, right? So so basically the baby is getting you know superfood from the mom from from birth. So you know, really obviously tight connection with mom um since birth, you know, plus you know, the mitochondrial um donation as well. Um so so that's that that's a very um you know intimate thing, but but when when the baby is is is from birth um afterwards, like again that the quote unquote natural vaginal birth, the baby's gut, the human's gut microbiome starts looking like a vaginal gut microbiome. And then this is the work that I did when it was at Cornell. Um, so it starts looking like um a vaginal microbiome. So it's like a fecal microbiome looks like a vaginal microbiome when we're first born. And then it looks like a skin microbiome because everybody's touching the baby, right? And and and so again, these are all bug specific, hopefully probiotics to the environment for good. Um, and then gradually, um, you know, through the transitioning into an adult diet, um, you start to see the formation of what's called a healthy um profile of gut bacteria. And and so from my understanding, and I'll be honest, I haven't taken a look at um where the the consumer industry is um with with um tests, but I I know there are different companies offering it. I think the value of uh understanding your gut microbiome, um, I mean, it's certainly there when you're looking at it longitudinally, like a one-off measure. Like, what's that gonna tell you? I mean, I I think you gotta just decide what you want in terms of a quantified self-data optimization plan. Um, you know, and I think that's kind of the coaches that we'll start to see emerge in the future is like, how do I navigate all this stuff? Because Chat GPT is not gonna give me the answer. Um you know, there needs to be, you know, AI, you know, it's not even artificial intelligence. We should really be calling that. I love this from Kevin Kelly, is is not artificial intelligence, it's artificial smartness. It's like a calculator, right? It's like I can do long division quick, I can do trigonometric, trigonometric functions quick, quickly, but but if I give a calculator to a four-year-old, I'm not gonna get too far. Um so so the intelligence needs to come, I think, from us, from coaches um who begin to ask those more beautiful questions. Um, and I think that that is what's interesting about these uh you know neurolinguistic AI features is is there they they kind of remind me of an ad magic eight ball. I don't know if you ever remember those as a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'm old.

Right. And that links back to like the book of changes in the oracle. Uh and um and really what that it's about getting to the deeper question. Um, because it's like, uh, you know, how do I make this pain go away? It's like, well, is is that what you want? You just want the pain to go away? Uh or do you want to understand why you keep getting the pain? Um, so uh sorry, we steered away from microbiome into AI, but the just to close it.

No, I'm I'm glad we did. Yeah, it it's uh it's something that I wanted to talk about. I I hey talk, I I talk about so right now, just for reference for listeners, is you know, Chat GPT 4 just emerged, right? Uh Chat GPT really didn't hit the market until what, like two months ago? And it's bananas. Like the the amount of users and it still has barely scratched the surface and how it's evolving and all the inputs that it's gaining and speeding up. And what I understand, like talking to you know, Shane Farmer yesterday about a complex problem that he's always had, which is he makes great content for indoor rowing, right? Probably the best in the world at what he does. But he's always had a you know a very challenging, time-consuming task of matching music to the stroke rate. And he just asked it two questions, right? Two back-to-back questions. Within two minutes, he had a full like spreadsheet of artists and songs that were at the right stroke per minute rate and all these different options. That would have taken forever, right? And I was talking to my wife about it last night because it came up and you know, she was talking about using it for specific and not going to ride her out, but some specific thing at work that takes up a lot of time. And I'm like, you shouldn't feel bad about that because all the smart people are gonna start doing it and using it. But, you know, then it came up the existential question to me, which is, you know, are we ready? Like as a species, are we ready? So I just I know you're a deep thinker, right? So when you look at AI, you know, what are have first of all, what have you used it? You mean just specifically chat GPT, what have you used it for so far? And where does your mind go when you look at the potential of what you've seen so far?

Yeah. Um so I mean, there's a f there's a few interesting things to unpack there. I think the one, the one that I'm really interested in is like are are we as a species ready for it? And I don't know that we'll be able to answer that on this call, but but I have been I have been thinking a lot about that, certainly. Um, like what are we going to do with it? Um I'm gonna just put a pin in that one. I'll only just speak for myself. Um be yeah, okay. Um, so what do I use it for? Uh do you know what's what's interesting? Um I I mean actually, I I I guess I can't really escape the moral question because I I I've I've been asking it moral questions. Um, like what are the Ten Commandments or what's the Eightfold Path? And which one do you think I should follow? And so I think there's this kind of a like a pure um, you know, kind of curiosity um element to this as well. And and um yeah, I I uh so that that's just kind of that's just like for fun on Saturdays. Um I think uh on the you know on the application side of things of like um I mean write writing emails more clearly is like, hey, like that that's pretty cool. Like that's like like I like to be very clear, and sometimes um I don't have time to write the email that I want. Um so it's like hey, here are the main points, and you know, here's here's an email standard that I you know try to uh adhere to when I communicate. So can you make can you make my um communication, although rushed, you know, look like I spent hours on it? And and that's that's phenomenal, right? So it you know, it gets my language choice, my style. So it's like me. It is me speaking in a sense, and and I am still directing it. I because I'm I am directing things that are uh automagically skilled in me. It's just they take a little longer to do, and so now I can do a lot faster. And that's interesting because like that's an um that looks like an emotional thing, right? Even though it's not it's a stylistic thing, but it's it looks like an emotional thing. Um so so those are those are applications. And then there's like, okay, like the straight up um, you know, DNA side of things. And I don't I don't suggest that people do this um because of the privacy privacy issue, but for my own data, that's my choice, um, I'll actually, you know, upload all the genetic information on me and I'll start to ask you questions, like how I how might I use this? Right. Um yeah, yeah. And you know, to be honest, it's at a point where it's just regurgitating information right now, but um it could become much more um in in the future. Like in the future, it could, I mean, I've always envisioned like you know, like Iron Man, um, how he's got Jarvis, like everybody getting their own personal Jarvis, like based on the relationship it has with you and what it knows about the goals that you're aspiring to do. It's you know, it's kind of always has has your back. It's kind of like a digital parent because you can actually you see the relationship that that that Tony Starks has with Jarvis. He's like, yeah, no, I'm gonna ignore you and and and blow myself up anyway. Um, but kind of cool that somebody has my back and is always giving me access to the right information. Um, so and I think that that's so there's there's the challenge, I think, is how do we know it's the right information? Um so that's that's where I think I alluded to when we were speaking previously to the fact that, well, yes, there's just open AI, chat GPT, but you know, it becomes more interesting when it becomes like closed, curated systems where you know the humans interface with the data because if they don't and it's just garbage in, well, it's just gonna be garbage out. Um, you're not gonna go to chat GPT for a diagnostic because you know, does it know the difference between you know a p-value of 0.001 and 0.01 as it relates to you know your construct of um you know polycystenic markers? Um no, it's not. I mean, I think we can get there though. Um, but that's that's how I've been playing with it um, you know, personally to to date. Um yeah, yeah. Thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, there are so many. I uh I I watched a really funny South Park episode last week, and it was all about uh chat GPT and the kids, the boys learn to use it to text their girlfriends, right? Yeah, and all yeah it's great. I mean, South Park just seems to nail modern issues so well and they get away with so much because it's a cartoon. But anyway, you know, and it led to this, I won't ruin the episode, but it led to all these kind of like initial benefits and then long-term disastrous outcomes, right? And I think that's something where I look at AI as like, okay, yeah, it can write an email. I mean, let's look at in the context of fitness, right? Uh in the industry is like obviously the ability to write more content, you know, um quicker, faster, more volume of content, whatever you want to use. There's there's uh scheduling, you know, things like that, where you know, there's a lot of them out there that will, you know, work schedules, you know, look at everyone's schedules and find appropriate times and just save a ton of time that way. And then of course there's there's program design, which you know, I know a lot of people feel like their program designed is sacred, but is it really and is it does the client in most cases really care how good the programming is, right? And so that's you know, a couple applications that I see immediately coming in. And I think pretty soon it's just gonna be, you know, for any technology companies within the space, it's just gonna be the price for admission. Like you have to have this stuff. And uh so, you know, I guess when I when I think about AI and what the potentials are, it scares me. I can't, okay. First of all, I can't wait to use it more. And second of all, it scares the shit out of me, right? For for what it's gonna do to interpersonal relationships and even just content. You know, like I I see a lot of people who are great, great content creators. Tony Gentlecore was on this recently, one of the best bloggers in the fitness industry, right? Like I said hysterical and he always has good knowledge and industry and insights. So, you know, though those are my immediate thoughts on it. I mean, when you look at in the lens of a coach, right? Someone is coaching people, like right now, when you're look when you look at through that lens, like where are you like, okay, this is the applications I could see it working for?

Yeah. Interesting, interesting comment on the program design, right? Because here's what I'll tell you is when I was um you know coaching more of the lead athletes, is if I'm being honest, there was there was never a program that I followed through 100% to the end. Now I agonized over the strategy of the program and the planning. And you know, the athlete shows up and they got the flu and just broke up with their girlfriend. It's like program changes, right? Yeah, yeah. So and and that's like they don't even want to enter that in. You know, you think about actually the the the survey imputation that you do in all these trackers, you know, people don't tend to document when they just feel like the lowest low. It's like, no, I'm just gonna stay in bed. You just don't even know. So you miss that, that relational context, um, which is a very important you know, thing to understand. Um so so I I again I think I think I think the the nice thing about the AI, and again, we're saying it's artificial intelligence, but it's really smartness, artificial smartness. It's like it gives me the answer to things that you know I might need the answer for now quickly. And so it improves my heuristic, let's just say. Because let's just also agree that every decision is made based on incomplete data, right? Um, now if I can make a decision based on incomplete data with more complete data faster, um you know, that's that's something you know worth worthwhile. So then that means at the end of the day, I get to make more decisions. Um, but again, I think it really does come all back to the asking the better questions. So I think that the real opportunity is that an irony, I think, of of such a tool is that more work will be done, more output will be created, such that we're gonna ask ourselves, well, why do we even want that? Right? Because there's just so much content being created. Now nobody can consume that at the end of the day. So it's like, what exactly do I need? Uh do I want and and why? Um, because now I I I literally have the the whole you know, you know, world of human consciousness in database form uh access to. So I I think it can actually deepen human relationships um to kind of get to the core issue of why are we why are we having this conversation? You know, like so for example, uh the reason why I was excited to have this conversation is because I remember you sent that link about you know what the world looked like when the dinosaurs were around, right? You know, I was like, oh, cool. Like I want to have that conversation about Eric, how you know our solar system has like moved through the galaxy, like I don't know how many times. Um, and every time it goes through, it gets like you know, collides with other planets and asteroids, and it's so so I think it gets us to a point to maybe have those deeper, almost spiritual conversations. Like, why am I doing this? Right, because we can just get so addicted to doing, especially athletes, right? Oh, more, more, more, right? Um, so I think we get to the minimum effective dose in our um thinking about thinking for the Kind of transformational things, I think we get to the you know minimum effective dose of the thing that's actually gonna move the needle to where we want to go if we decide that's still where we want to go after we've done that deeper introspective work. You know, because it it's something to be said for like, okay, well, all these problems have been figured out now, so what real problem am I gonna focus on, you know, as a human, um, using this new tool? So I I know I'm being a little bit nebulous here, but um, I I guess it's probably in part because this is so big, it is so new. Um, I I I do I want to believe in our capacity for good to really leverage this though. And and I think, you know, given the audience, like coaches, I mean, uh, coaches are so giving and altruistic, I think, in their hands. Um, it's gonna be amazing things. Cause like literally what you're doing is you're asking, how do I help these other people better? And I think can that really be a bad thing? Um, yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, I I go back to the example I was talking about with Shane Farmer and finding the the strokes per minute, right? Right. Like hugely time-sucking thing. And what does that do? So, okay, now then now that's off his plate in two minutes.

Exactly. Right. Yeah.

And now he can focus on like, okay, well, now I can go be more creative. I can because all he like someone like Shane, all he wants to do do is be creative. He wants to create more content. He wants to find new ways to touch, you know, connect with his audience and his clients. And this just gave him more time to do that. So I agree. I think, you know, of course, that that's the optimist. And I find that a lot of people uh like yourself who are into the science generally be very optimistic about everything. And there's people like me that are maybe a little bit more skeptical. But um, we're we're butting up on a little bit of time here. And I I want to touch on Jeremy, like what you're doing now as like a you know executive high performance coach, you're kind of wrapping all these skills and and experiences all into one thing. So give us some insights now into what you're what you're up to in 2023.

Yeah, thank you. Um well, a couple of things. So, like with with Athletogen, um, you know, I I you know, I I produced um uh or I got to work with with uh some pretty uh amazing people that helped me see DNA differently. Um so like in like what we talked about at the beginning, like what would you tell coaches, right? So how might they use DNA? And and I mentioned, hey, with the injury stuff, you help athletes avoid the quicksand with the um exercise physiology stuff to help them play chess instead of checkers. And then with the nutrition stuff, it's um you know, let's uh let's get rid of some of those barriers so we don't have plateaus, um, we don't have burnout, we don't have chronic fatigue. So uh, you know, I'm still very much involved um in in the DNA industry because I I gotta say, like I see DNA as you know, humanity's shared heritage and legacy, and you know, we all possess this unique biological series of gifts that you know deserve to be understood. And and um so and I'm thinking more broadly though, like you know, family planning, human performance, yes, also, but like general fitness, health, longevity, um, you know, coming back to that, you know, truth that you know, knowing your DNA can help you create the environmental conditions necessary for that authentic expression of those gifts, right? So, so what I've what I've done is um what I'm doing now, I should say, is I'm you know, I'm working with um uh sequencing.com actually, and and I'm doing uh you know more strategy and partnerships there and and you know, really, I guess I position myself there as like a DNA consultant and advocate advocate where where I'm passionate about um empowering people to get the best information and guidance possible through through like the guidance of AI, DNA, expert advice, and I call this uh um approach of this uh you know DNA as a service. And so I think it's through this high-tech, high-touch approach, um, I'm able to you know strive to help individuals live live better and longer. And so, you know, with sequencing.com, I'm able to start to connect with coaches to you know get them up to speed with DNA quickly, not quite as quickly as Chat GPT in terms of writing their um their blogs or their programs on stroke rate, but certainly like quickening the time or lessening the time to understand um DNA. So that's that's where athleticens brought me. Um and then on the consulting side, uh that's that's a very special, sacred place as well. And you know, you uh as a fellow founder, you understand um, you know, what a what a uh a lonely and challenge, challenge by choice, by the way, um lifestyle that that being um an entrepreneur is. And and so I I also do um high performance coaching with um with executives, and it's it's predominantly um, you know, founders who uh entrepreneurs, I should say, business executives that are that really just don't they don't fall into the nine to five um and they're looking to you know kind of define or upgrade their their personal operating systems. Um so I effectively hold the space um you know for those individuals, help architect that new system, um, you know, to help them get to the results that they they want and or the relationships that they need to get them there. Um so it's it's a really beautiful synergy of you know honoring my great coaches uh of past that got me to to where I am, the deep kind of you know, DNA signatures um that makes an individual an individual. So honoring that you know each person I coach is is different. Um and uh and it allows me to you know connect to people who are who are doing amazing stuff in this space, not um among them in in the space of of AI and health tech and finance and and fitness entrepreneurs. And you know, so just being able to get behind folks like that um is is the other part of of uh of what gets me up in the morning.

Awesome.

And uh and I am working on a book, and I promise that you know, maybe, maybe in a time earmarked in the future, we'll be back to talk about that.

Yes. Yeah, I would love that. Uh give us a little teaser on the book.

Okay, well, um so what I what I would say about hold on, let me just uh let me just open chat GPT here. Um have a right up to my yeah. The book is is uh um, you know, it's it's uh an unapologetic um journey of uh my let's call it my you know checkered past that led me into uh the DNA world, um, you know, from you know uh you know you know being being out on the streets as a kid and entrepreneurial at a young age. Um but then kind of my my journey back to you know, be it with coaches, my journey back to become athlete, artist, entrepreneur. And then, you know, the entrepreneurial journey and how that kind of you know blew up in my face at times. And um, but here are the learnings, these lessons from Olympians that I've gathered. Um uh but then it comes together at the end with um, you know, frankly, it's the operating system that I'm um I'm helping founders create now. Uh so it really is uh you know an existential journey of um the trials and tribulations of being uh an entrepreneur in uh the DNA industry. And um, you know, how that made me just dig really deep to understand myself and understand others and um, you know, really work to you know upgrade my thinking in terms of collaboration and synergy and you know, at the end of the day, empower others to understand themselves so that they can you know live that effective, um, authentic life. So uh that that in a nutshell is is uh where it's going. It's in essence, underneath it all is the DNA of the human performance and um you know what it takes to persist, to pursue you know that elusive, you know, Goldilocks state. Not too hot, not too cool, just just right.

Yeah, right on. Well, that was a great answer, chat GPT for. I know, right? Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Uh well, Jeremy, I I always love our conversation. I'm so glad we got some time to you know record, record one of them. Um where do people find you? If you want to send someone online to to connect with you or or reach out, what where would you like them to go?

Yeah, you know what? The best place for right now is just on on LinkedIn. So um yeah, Jeremy Koenig on on LinkedIn, you'll find me there. And you know what? Um feel free to email me. Old school, uh Jeremy at uh Arisinfinity.com. Um yeah, uh I'd say give I'd say give me a call. I was like, if you email me, I will give me your number, I'll definitely call you.

Yeah, don't put your phone number on here. There you go. Uh Jeremy, uh always a pleasure, my friend. And uh thanks for spending some time on a Friday morning. And ladies and gentlemen, Jerry Coning.

Thank you so much, Eric. We'll be in touch soon, I'm sure.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Futurious Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Catbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the feature of fitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the feature of fitness. Have a great day.