Debbie Lichter - Food Addiction and Spiritual Inflammation

Hey fitness fans, welcome back to the Future of Fitness Podcast. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and this is episode number 29. I get to talk to Debbie Lichter. So Debbie has the website Free From FoodAddiction.com. She is a very experienced fitness professional who has taken a dive into the spiritual side. So her premise is that she helps people alleviate physical pain by tackling spiritual pain first. So before you kind of judge this episode or think about it, think about the complexities of the people that you work with as fitness professionals. There's a lot of different layers and things are going on in their life. And if you've been in the trenches long enough, you know that many times you come to people and you best serve them as a coach and a listener and someone who can help them with all the other shit that's going on in their life. So there's a lot of great uh nuggets on that side of things. She also talks about growing her online business. So from a business standpoint, this is a really valuable episode as well. How scaling and automation before you're ready can really hurt your business and affect your clients. And there's some great lessons that she shares with us there as well. So without further ado, this is Debbie Lichter, uh, FreedomFromfooddiction.com. And I hope you enjoy it. I sure did. Everybody, welcome back. This is Eric Malizan with the Future of Fitness Podcast. And today I have Debbie Lichter. And welcome to the show, Debbie.

Hi, Eric. It's so good to be here.

So you and I have had a lot of chances to talk and um especially about the fitness industry and your evolution and what you're doing now. We're gonna dive a lot into that for sure. Uh, because I think we're gonna cover some really, really cool topics for people to keep in mind. But if you don't mind, Debbie, give give people who are listening just, you know, um, I know you have a lot of experience. Maybe just a synopsis of what you've done and then what you're doing now.

Sure. Yeah. So I started out in the fitness industry um with just wanting to become a personal trainer and and then soon after that became a Pilates instructor. And that was real my really my big passion because while I was getting my certification, I was working at a physical therapy clinic. I was always interested in in how we work with bodies who aren't feeling 100% more than on the performance side of stuff. And and so I just I dove into it deep and within within about two years became a general manager of a health club, and uh, and then after that um opened my own Pilates studio. And so that's it's so interesting telling you my story through the trajectory of my my fitness career because today what I do is really, you know, I my Pilates studio is really known for helping people connect to their bodies at a deeper level and really getting rid of chronic physical pain. And all the work that I was doing outside of my official work was really around um helping folks get free from addiction, because that's a huge part of my story too. And so ultimately it brought me to this place where I really I thought, you know, and unless I'm helping people with what I call their spiritual pain or their spiritual inflammation, you know, then then if we're working with people around their physical inflammation, it's only going to get so far. And so today, what I really do is I help folks get free of both their physical pain and their spiritual pain. I help people get free from addiction, I help people come back to their bodies and really just, you know, have that comprehensive body, mind, and spirit fitness.

Oh, it's really cool. Yeah, it's different for sure. And it's um, you know, as as coaches, and you know, and this is my background especially, I always, you know, I look at the programming, I look at the quote unquote X's and O's of what people are doing, but sometimes um it's really easy to slip into that side of things and forget that we're working with actual human beings, right? And the complexity that comes with that. Uh I'm curious, do you have any, or is can you share like um, you know, some kind of example of of someone that you've worked with and how you've you've managed to get them through the the spiritual pain and to yeah, give us give us more depth on that.

Yeah, I mean, you know, today the the big the big place that people come to me is is freedom from addiction. Let's take food addiction, for example. So I had a client who came to me, she was, um she did have physical pain and she was, you know, had had some extra weight, and but but her biggest thing was knowing that as long as she was stuck in the addiction, right? Because this is another thing that also our clients come to us and they want weight loss. But if they are caught in a food addiction and they have a lot of shame about that, and it's pulling them out of what they know they should be doing and all that kind of stuff, it's it's not just about having a better mindset or replacing a bad habit with a good habit. It's there, there's a deeper, there, there's a deeper um that person really needs to get real with what's going on with driving them to the food in the first place. And so that's what I did with this with this client, is that we really got to, first of all, what I start with folks is it's let me help you get clarity, because what I find when people are struggling with any addiction is that they're trying to solve a problem they don't fully understand with an incomplete solution. So take food food addiction, for example. If we're trying to just fix food addiction with diet and exercise or with mindset training, we are missing a huge, huge piece, which is this, like I said, the spiritual piece. So the spiritual inflammation that I talk about, the ways that we are in fear, the ways that we are resentful, the ways that we are in judgment, um, all of that, all of the stuff that is kind of making us feeling rest, feel restless, irritable, and discontent as we go through our lives. That just kind of kind of like I call it spiritual inflammation because it kind of feels that like that internal agitation. And and that's really the stuff that I help folks get free from. And when we can come into congruent relationship inside, and when people can can get free of that spiritual stuff, it's just it's incredible. So this particular client, her her whole attitude and outlook changed, not because she was going into her mind to fix it, but because we were doing this deeper spiritual work. And and because of that, her whole relationship with her physical pain changed. Her story changed, her physical pain left, the weight fell off, and she wasn't trying to fix herself. She wasn't trying to lose weight or think about her food. It just came off because she got to the core of what was really going on. So that's just an example.

That's God, it's so cool. And I have a question because I'm I'm, you know, I'm 41 now, and I've seen, I think my generation, I think we're in the same rough bracket. I think our generation is gone. You know, I was raised going to Catholic church, right? I had to go every Sunday, right? And then uh emphasis on I had to. You know, so my my spirituality, and then I always so I always put spirituality next to Catholicism or some kind of organized religion, but you're seeing less and less people, especially in our generation and younger, actually attending church. So spirituality is becoming this different thing, right? It's be it's evolving. How can you put into words how you're seeing that evolution change? I mean, that's that's yes. Okay, good.

I would I would love to.

Awesome.

Because can I swear on this, by the way?

Yeah.

Okay, great. Because I really feel like we all have godship, you know, like we all have our stuff. We all have our, we all have the stuff that we were raised with or that we weren't raised with. We all have our beliefs, we have our attitudes about about how other people do their spirituality or their religion or their, you know, whatever. And so, so we're usually coming into the conversation with a lot of our own beliefs and with a lot of judgment or criticism or or even you know prejudice around how other folks are doing life, or those people are hypocrites and or or this institution is hypocritical, or all that kind of stuff. And so one of my biggest passions, after people get clear on what the problem is, before they can really, really access the solution, we got to clean up all that god shit. And so that's actually what we get into next, where we do a whole whole thing around that, because really what I see happening is that a lot of folks have belief in spiritual concepts, whether that's you know, be the change you want to see in the world, or whether that's, you know, you know, like very specific Catholic view, or whatever it is. We we have a whole gamut of that stuff, but oftentimes there's beliefs and philosophies that are spiritual. And yet many of us are blocked from access. And and when I say blocked from access, that we're not relying on spiritual, we're not relying on spiritual power, relying on our own self-will, our own power, trying to figure things out on our own, trying to control, manipulate, get things done. We're kind of operating in a world that is, you know, in one way or another, I guess you could say it's kind of agnostic. It's like maybe there's this thing out there, but I'm I I still gotta manage these areas of my life, you know, and so we're kind of operating in that world, and that's really where I see addictions and obsessions and self-sabotaging patterns having a field day because well, there that I won't go down, it they just do. They just show up in that environment. And so, and so what I really find is that what's important for folks is to um be guided through a process where they can set aside all of the stuff, all of the beliefs, all of the attitudes that they grew up with or that they came that that they're that they're showing up with right here, right now. Set it all aside. What is truth will come back to you, and really give yourself the opportunity to cultivate a new experience of what it means for you right here, right now. And so, what I really guide my clients through is how to get quiet enough with all that stuff out of the way so that you can allow what is your truest spiritual experience to reveal itself to you. And and then you're able to cultivate a brand new relationship that is based on something that is deeply intimate and um and totally, totally personal to you. And it's like everyone else can go do their thing. And and that's what happened for me because I had a lot of, you know, like I grew up Jewish, and I, you know, the the the the sort of like the spirituality, my understanding was just this very impersonal. Like I didn't I didn't grow up with prayer. I there were just a lot of things that I didn't really have, and I had a lot of beliefs and a lot of judgments, a lot of you know, um a lot of judgments about other people and other institutions. And and so this is what really helped me. And and that's what I find people are really needing is they're needing something that's intimate, that's deep, that's meaningful for them. And then from that place, Eric, we can then like today, I can go into any mosque, any temple, any church, any anything. And whether somebody is speaking about Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior, or someone's speaking about Allah, like I can actually find my personal experience with it without any charge. And so there's a lot of freedom around that. But I had to go, I couldn't just philosophically get there. I had to go through a journey to get there.

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting stuff. And I found myself saying, um, you know, how many times now that I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious, but I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what that means. You just say it because it's it's just like it's an easy default, right? Uh but yeah, it's an interesting time, and especially, you know, as you look at, you know, if you actually take the time to look at the roots of of I don't want to get too much into religion here, but where they come from, it's just basically explaining things that we don't understand. And as times go on, right, we're getting to the point where we understand a lot more. And now we're, you know, well, well, what now? And uh cool. I think it's I think it's a big topic that a lot of people have swing their heads that they don't, they don't want to talk about, or B, they just don't they can't recognize it yet. Um and you know, I always say I did, and nothing against um, you know, Catholicism, but I always say I did 18 years of of hard, hard time. Hard time I was an ultra boy and all that. So I'm still there's still some residue there, obviously. Um I'm curious because we you and I had talked about some things that you know when you when you shifted to an online presence and and the coaching and and it changed your business. Um how how what are some lessons that you can you can share with people about how to get started in something new or fairly new?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, great. Um I I feel so I'm so passionate about us starting where we are, starting small, starting humble. Um, it's really sexy, and I've made this mistake many times of seeing the big, fancy, sexy things that people are doing out there and wanting to do that and investing in stuff like that. And um, and then it feels like there's too much, it feels overwhelming, and I like it, it sets us up. Well, at least it used to set me up for feeling like a fraud or feeling like it's just there's too much happening, you know. I'm kind of trying to, and and what really worked for me, Eric, was um, you know, starting with just a few clients who are ready to dive into a new journey. And what I did was I, in that very first program that I did, I was doing live calls with people, I was recording those calls, I was pouring everything that I could into those into those folks, um, you know, creating online content. It was kind of like the content, the stuff that I found myself saying over and over again to people, like, okay, that becomes a lesson plan, that becomes a module, that becomes an audio, you know, it was really, it was very, very um, you know, it was very grassroots. And it was just one tiny thing at a time. And and then, whoa, then when I completed that six-month course, I had all these recordings. I now had a program. I now had a whole series of modules that I can say, okay, the next person that comes in, I don't have to redo all of that. Now I can just leverage by doing, you know, coaching calls, group calls, one-on-one calls, but I don't have to re-record all that stuff again. And now, oh my gosh, we actually are starting to have a community. This is amazing. I'm actually inviting people into something. And so it just slowly started growing in that way. And it was really interesting. I know you didn't ask this, but I'm just gonna fast forward a little bit because earlier this year, I wanted to get fancy again. And and I wanted to now automate my whole business and you know, just train another people to do what I did. And you know, kind of it's like, okay, now I'm now I'm ready to leverage the next level. Now I'm ready to do this. And and so um I I started to do all of that. And you know what? I think my clients really suffered. I I first of all spent way more money. I mean, my expenses were so high, but I my clients were really wanting me, and I was trying to make myself less available and trying to set up more systems and automation and other people to do the things. And and I think that there is a really beautiful balance of that because I think that there are ways that we can scale, that we can grow, that we can leverage, that really serve and create more wins. And there's other areas of my life that I I mean, other areas of my business that I've done that, like with um group retreats and things like that. But um as long as the I guess the the piece of wisdom that I would just uh that I would share is as long as we are always keeping ourselves in check, keeping, keeping our um and keeping the client's experience at the forefront of what you know, like is this best for the business or is this best for the client's experience? And then connecting in with them, what do they need, and all that kind of stuff. And and what's been interesting is that as the year gets towards the end here, I've really gone full circle. Um, I raised my prices quite significantly, but I'm now offering even higher end, higher touch offerings to people who are really ready for that. So I can really dive deeper with them and keeping the aspects of the automation that worked, um, but really actually being more involved in my business than I was at the beginning of the year. So it's been interesting, really interesting.

Yeah, it's great. And I think the lessons that I I hear in there too is that, and this is um so common, I've done it so many times myself, is you know, you really got to focus on A, what do you truly enjoy doing, and what is the highest value that you offer to your business. So if you look at yourself as an employee of your business, like what do you what is your greatest value to that? And focus most of your energy there, and then all the other stuff that is, you know, that you either hate doing or someone else can do better, then you start to systematize that stuff if you can, right? But never um, you know, if if you're I it's it's so often now you see people like they want to create this, they they think this amazing Facebook funnel is gonna change their lives, it's gonna automate everything and they're not gonna have to worry about anything. They're just gonna be on an island somewhere and money is just gonna be flowing in. Um, you know, it doesn't work like that in our field. It doesn't work like that.

It doesn't work like that, and that's such a perfect example. So, yes, like I have a team that handles all of the things that are not my wheelhouse, but I'm talking about my clients come to me because of the my channeled coaching. I mean, I'm a channel, you know, and and I'm an intuitive, and and and and so there is a skill set that I offer that people want. So it's like I can't replicate that, you know, and so and that is my wheelhouse. That's what I love to do. So as I was trying to, like you said, you know, okay, I just want to have an automated program. Someone can just come online, they can do an online funnel, and they can do an online program, and they can, everything is hands-off, and everything is really sexy and smooth and slick, and it's like that's not the experience. You know, my people want they want human contact, they want community, they want to know they're not alone, they want to, they want, you know, they they want to have interaction, and they certainly want to have the you know, the channeled um guidance that they're receiving. So absolutely, I agree with you.

Awesome. Where do you see uh where do you see free from food addiction your business uh in two years? What's the direction you're heading in?

Well, my vision has always been to shift from ownership to stewardship with my with my with my business. And and so I this is part of my greater why of really creating a new paradigm of being free from addiction. And and so I would love to see that, you know, sure there's gonna be people who want to do higher touch, higher level, uh one-on-one stuff with me. I'm also my my brand has actually graduated. I have people that come into me at the freedom from addiction or freedom from food addiction level, and then I also people who come to me specifically for what I call the congruence code, which is just that next level of how do we become fully congruent in ourselves so that we can really live from joy, shine our light, help more people, and and and ultimately just be all of our authentic selves. And so that's really the work that I'm that I'm doing with folks, still in that in that coaching capacity and in that group capacity. But really, what I see is that there is an aspect of the work that I'm doing that is living in the world that is sort of just like like it's open and it's just it's it's free and it's available for for people to to do and to create community around the world and to come together. So that that would just be that would just be the most exciting thing for me and um is that actually it grows beyond me.

Awesome. So what do you when you said ownership versus stewardship? Elaborate on that. Um that's new to me.

So there's an aspect of what I'm doing in my business that is that is about my me and my business and my personal brand and my expression. And yes, I am here to be a bestselling author and a speaker and a thought leader in the way of addiction and embodiment and spirituality and things like that. And that's like my personal vision. And then, you know, each one of us, I really feel this about folks who are who are in the health and fitness industry. We care. We really, we, we want to, we've got big visions and big dreams, and we want to help the world in a massive way. And I really get that to help the world in a massive way, I have to get out of my own, like the trajectory of my own personal brand, and really look at what is the legacy piece that I'm here to offer. What is the piece that I want as that's that's just serving the world? That, you know, we talk about what's your five-year plan, what's your 10-year plan, what's your one-year plan, and um what's your hundred-year plan? You know, and so that's really that that's that's where I it's like it's stewarding, it's stewarding that, stewarding a movement, stewarding something that that just is is uh a legacy.

I love it. Great. Uh so Debbie, where do people get a hold of you? If they want to find you, learn more, um, see the content that you're putting out, where where do they get where do they get a hold of you?

Yeah, great. Um you can go to my website, uh, freefromfoodaddiction.com. You also can um gosh, you can you can you know what I would really love to just offer people an opportunity to connect with me directly um and send me an email because there's lots of stuff that we talked about. And um if you would like to send me an email, you can go to Debbie D-E-B-B-I-E at free from foodaddiction.com. No s at the end, no freedom from, just free from foodaddiction.com.

Awesome. Well, thank you, Debbie. It's it's cool. Um you definitely bring uh something different into uh on this show and into the fitness industry. So thank you for everything you do. It's been a pleasure talking to you. And uh yeah, have a great day.

Thank you, Eric. It was such an honor. Bye-bye.

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