Darrel Wang - Flipping the Traditional Endurance Model Upside Down

What's up, Fitness fans? Welcome back. Eric Malzone with the Future of Fitness Podcast. This is episode number 27. I get to talk to Daryl Wang of Power Speed and Endurance. So I've uh first and foremost, Daryl is a friend of mine. I've known him for a while. Um he ran some running seminars at my gym. Um very, very smart guy. I would definitely classify him as an expert as far as running mechanics. And he also dives into what power speed endurance is. So a little backstory on it. Um Brian McKenzie is the founder, and he used to be CrossFit Endurance, and then for one reason or another, it has shifted and evolved into power speed endurance. So Darrell's role is he held he heads up uh with another gentleman, the tactical division. So you can get online training from power speed endurance if you are somebody who needs tactical training. So military, law enforcement, fire. Uh it's it looks like a lot of fun. It looks like it's very um suitable for for those type of professions. Uh in addition, we talk about um what kind of running footwear to that he suggests. I always found that to be an interesting thing, especially as a trainer. I get asked that one all the time. And we also talk about uh the art of breathing, which is an online course that they provide at Power Speed Endurance as well, and how he's utilized it in his life to reduce stress and get some through some difficult times. And he gives us some very actionable items and directions on on how to do some of that. So a lot of value in here. And uh Daryl's just a great guy, very funny guy. So I think you'll find it entertaining and insightful. Before we get on to that, just a quick note from our sponsor, which is us, Fitness Marketing Alliance, and we're offering a deal on our digital dashboard. So if you are a professional, fitness professional, and you are looking to scale your business online, whether that be through online coaching, online nutrition, selling ebooks, whatever it is, how do you know if it's really working? Well, you have to assess it, and we give you the tools to do so. So if you go to fitnessmarketingalliance.com forward slash DIY, and I'll give you the promo code here in a second. Uh if you go to it, you'll get some information about what the dashboard offers. So uh it ties in all of your analytics in one place, showing where your website traffic is coming from, how your social media is performing, what your competitors are up to, and much, much more. So go to fitnessmarketingalliance.com forward slash DIY and enter the promo code FMA DIY, and you'll get the $250 sign up fee waived. And it's just ninety-nine bucks a month. It's an absolute no-brainer. So go check it out. If you have any questions, email me, Eric at fitnessmarketingalliance.com. And on to the show, Daryl Wang of Power Speed Endurance number 27. Hey everybody, welcome back. This is Eric Malzone with the Future of Fitness Podcast. And today I have Daryl Wang, uh good friend of mine from Power Speed Endurance and many, many other things. So, Daryl, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Eric.

It's a blast so far. Yeah, we have started recording. Uh we've been laughing quite a bit. So um, Daryl, I've known you for a long time. Um I'm I'm thinking like three, four, maybe five years. But um, so I know who you are. Can you give us a little background on you know um maybe your journey in fitness and and where you are today? I know there's some thing you're you've been a lot of time in the military, so some things you can touch on, some things you can't. But yeah, give us a little background on who you are.

Yeah, absolutely. So um the the journey in the military actually started when I severely injured my hip in high school, uh, and I was actually gonna go run track and field in college. Uh, once I found out that I couldn't afford college without a sports scholarship, I went to the Air Force recruiter and I was like, hey, get me out of here. Um and he was just able to do that uh when I was 19 years old. So um fast forward a little bit, I end up in Japan uh for a couple years of my career. I meet Jason Donaldson, who was a head coach of CrossFit Endurance at the time, and we kind of just hit it from there. Uh and then fast forward a couple of years again, and we've rebranded from CrossFit Endurance to Power Speed Endurance. And uh myself and Rob Wilson are kind of in charge of the tactical program there, where we are not really building up the nation's warfighters, but we're keeping them healthy and safe. So uh whether you're in the military firefighting department or police department, anything with a very tactical field is where we mainly emphasize our programming. And it's very different from the traditional every Navy SEAL writes a program for BUDs, you know. Uh we're we're trying to keep people safe when they're already in those uh very dangerous and critically uh demanding career fields.

Yeah, wow. Where did you live in Japan at Okinawa?

Uh Okinawa. So it was actually an island off of Japan, off of the coast of Japan. It's actually closer to Taiwan than it was Japan, but um, there are so many military bases out there, and by far it was one of my best assignments. It's so beautiful. Uh, and I would recommend anybody go there.

Yeah, cool. Yeah, I know that's um was it a bit of a and I know we're getting off here, but was it a bit of a um a culture shock, or were you pretty much like within the Air Force base?

Right. Yeah, so um culturally speaking, I would go off base sometimes and people would start speaking Japanese to me, and I'm like, hey, nope. Um, but it was everybody's very kind there. They made it very easy to adapt. Um, but like you said, a majority of my time was spent working on the base, um, coaching at the gym, uh, stuff like that, and and training, obviously.

Yeah, yeah. Very cool. So you have you have a lot of athletic background, a lot of training experience, and um maybe give us an insight for people who don't know what power speed endurance is and kind of the evolution and the core philosophy of like CrossFit endurance and then leading into power speed endurance.

Absolutely. So um we we kind of flip the traditional model of where you would see endurance training on its head. So now we go skill work first, intensity second, volume third, as opposed to where somebody training for a marathon maybe 12 years ago would just go out and run a marathon every day. Um so we don't progressively, we don't let athletes move on until they've showed progression. Um so we're all about uh I think Aaron might have mentioned this, is really earning your volume, right? You you've really got to earn it. Um, and and we're not gonna be the people to really push you in it in that direction until you're showing proficiency everywhere else. So um that said, our traditional crossfit endurance model of basically only programming for endurance sports has now shifted to lifestyle. So we have swim, we have tactical, we have a breathe program, right? We have so many things that now are real-world applicable um sports that hopefully will treat you a little better in the long run and keep you safer for longer.

Awesome. So wait a minute, wait a second. Are you saying that someone should get their mechanics done before they go out and run a ton of miles? Is that yeah, that's so so weird.

It's so weird. And and I remember hosting a little run clinic at at your uh old gym, and yeah, uh a lot of people were like, No, I think I'm gonna go run more. And I'm like, you can, but it's probably not gonna be good for you because you run like shit.

So yeah, yeah, it's so funny too. It's like, and it seems so shocking to people who are like, why would I work on my running mechanics? Because you're gonna go out and try to run 100 miles in a month, right? Okay, stop. It makes so much sense if you just yeah, okay.

Yeah, if you break it down and you're and you tell some guy that's never deadlifted to deadlift 405, and and he's never deadlifted, he's gonna get hurt. And and people don't understand that concept for running. It's it's almost exactly the same thing, except that the running injury rate is much higher. Like 90% of runners get hurt every single year. Yeah, yeah.

Um, tell me about how the the traditional um endurance uh coaches in that whole world, how did they embrace CrossFit endurance and what you guys are doing with your philosophy?

Oh gosh. So if you I I'm pretty sure if you look up any of Brian's videos on YouTube, there's one ultramarathoner at the top of every comment section saying, hey, this is wrong, this is why. And then uh the stuff that they say is absolutely refutable, and and we've proven that. And I and Brian actually used himself as a test bunny with the inaugural launch of this program. The less volume, more intensity, focusing on high skill aspect of it. And gosh, people just it's so hard to get out of your own ways, right? Like if somebody told me now at this point, like, hey, cross-endurance was wrong the whole time, um, I'd have a really hard time believing it because I was, for lack of better term, raised on it, right? Uh, and and it's it's just the way things should be done. But it's hard to convince people that have been doing it for longer than I have, right? I've I'm 24 years old. There have been people that have been running marathons for 30 years, uh, and and they know exactly what they're doing. And it's kind of like our our parents' generation where um dad knows, the guy knows, you never question it.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

It's interesting too because I I took the CrossFit endurance certification. Actually, I think I did, well, I did one three-day seminar and then I took the certification, and then I did my own um workshop every month or every year for a while. And not necessarily because it made me a ton of money, but because I really enjoyed it, right? Yeah, and uh it's really fun, and it's actually absolutely changed my view of running because I used to, I told this on Aaron's book, I used to hate running, right? Like in high school, I was the guy like who would, you know, during water pole season we had a run. I just felt owl my hamstring. Like, oh, I'm not doing that. And uh, you know, every time I would I would do a seminar, there was always somebody who would who would push back on something, which is good, right? It means we're invoking a conversation, but it was like footwear. Everyone wants everyone wants to talk about footwear, and I'm like, well, yeah, I I wear a minimalist shoe because I feel that I've run correctly, right? But there's always somebody who wants like, no, you're wrong. Yeah, definitely huge shoes. So tell me about footwear because that's that's a hot topic. Oh gosh.

Yeah, so I uh I I went up to New Mexico State University actually last week. I spoke to about 40 to 50 cadets on how to run properly, and we were all in the grass. And the first question I got was, hey, are my shoes gonna be okay for this? And wearing some random Adidas. Uh, I I don't know the model, but I said, You should be able to run in whatever you've got on. Um, but for the sake of the drills and the skills, I took their shoes off, made them run in the grass barefoot, and that seemed to help. So, as far as my preference goes for footwear, uh, like you said, minimalistic is great. Uh, I train in strike movement chill pills, um, and I do everything in them. So run, bike, crossfit, lift weights, gymnastics, everything I do in them. Um, because I believe that it it needs to be a shoe that's very adaptable to what you're doing. And and the chill pill does just the strike movement doesn't send me any money to to pitch a really good product. And and I think that uh I'll stand by that until something better comes along, or uh a new company kind of wants me to test something else. But I know a lot of our coaches like Jeff Ford with Power Speed Endurance, he's our he's our endurance guy uh right now and he wears a shoe called Topo Athletic Shoes. Um and I think it's been pretty successful for him. He's a really fast guy.

Um Yeah, that's great info, and that's very selfish of me to ask because my innovates are just about done. So tell me, you know, if someone's doing a um if someone's involved in a you know a power speed endurance seminar or running workshop, what's that experience like? What can people expect?

They can expect, so right now with our art of breath clinics, I haven't heard a single bad thing about it yet. It's very personable and it's very it's ran by people that are super knowledgeable. So Brian and Rob are the ones um teaching it right now, and and Jace on the back background kind of doing the admin and assistance work. Um, but gosh, they uh the feedback that we've gotten most commonly is, and I actually got this at your gym, was you could have charged more for this, or you should have charged more for this. And none of us, uh quite frankly, are really in this for the money. We really want um the community just to be in a greater approach, very healthy, uh, and stay in this sport for a really long time. Um, all of our coaches know each other pretty well, and we know exactly how seminars are going to be ran. Like when I was an intern for CrossFit Endurance, I interned under several different coaches, but the vibe was almost always the same, where uh the energy was really high, the information was really, really good. Um, and then there was always a follow-up afterwards to see how you were doing, and we would exchange contact information to um, I guess, give us any any information that you had about yourself and any additional skill work that you needed and and any feedback about the seminars. And and for the most part, it was always good.

Good. Yeah, that's interesting. I I really liked it. I mean, and and when you go through these things, running's so primal, right? It's so it's so innate, and so many people don't know how to do it correctly because we just assume that we can just get up and start running uh without any kind of instruction. But the over the period of you know, whatever the seminar goes, two to four hours, there's always these major aha moments like, wait, this doesn't hurt, or it feels a lot easier now. And uh it's it's just a really cool experience. So let's dive into what you're doing with tactical because I'm really interested about it. Um, you know, I've taken some some um some similar things just from friends that I know have have taken me out and done some tactical work. But tell me about that experience. What are you doing with these people?

Yeah, so um we I think in the summer, early in the summer, we launched a beta program, right? This was for people that wanted to raise their hand, receive free programming on what our tactical program would look like. And in return, they would provide feedback on what we need more, less, or what is perfect of um during that program. Um, for the most part, most of the complaint was that we didn't have enough, right? But everybody in the entire world wants more of the good stuff. Um, but they don't realize what it's gonna take because we would get a uh inquiry that says, hey, the timeline is perfect, I'm in and out of the gym, an hour and a half recovery and warm-up included, but I'd like to see more of this. So the wiggle room was very non-existent. And and I mean that's just human nature, right? We want, we want, we want. Uh, and then all of a sudden things start falling apart because we've been doing too much. Um, and our approach to it is so we have essentially three days that we rotate. One of them is a strength and conditioning day, one of them is an interval day where you'll do something sports specific, whether it's run or swim. And then the last one is a skill-specific strength and conditioning day, where we'll throw you into a uh, I think CrossFit calls it a MECCon with uh, let's say sandbags or weighted vests uh and and other stuff like that. Just odd objects that would re in reality mimic maybe stepping over a box with your buddy over your shoulder and stuff like that.

Cool. That's interesting. It sounds like a lot of fun to do that programming too.

Yeah, I would like to think so, man. Um it's a lot of things that I myself have never done before. And I remember when Rob and I were talking about what exactly we wanted to put in the program, it was just weird shit. Um, just like I said, things nobody has ever thought about unless they're actually on the battlegrounds or fighting for their life or fighting a fire or or in pursuit of of somebody running away from them. Um, so hopefully the real world applicability of it is is worth the $9 a month that you're paying.

Yeah, that's a great deal.

Tell me about it.

Yeah. Uh so give me um give me a an overlook because um, you know, I'm I'm not 100% clear. So I'm guessing people are listening aren't either of like what what exactly does power speed endurance? Do you guys train coaches? Do you train people? Do you do workshops and seminars? What's kind of like the what's all of the flavors that you guys do?

Yeah, so power speed endurance, I think, and gosh, Brian and Aaron might kill me for this, but it's it's a general approach to how we can develop humans to be maximized at their optimal potential. Cool. Um and whether that's coaches or athletes or interns or people that follow us on Instagram, um, we try and put out as much content as we can to help with the general world. And if you're following our pages at all or Brian's pages at all, uh at least once a week he'll post something about breathing, um, maybe a breathing challenge or or a breathing cadence that'll allow you to do X, Y, and Z a little more effectively. Um we're in the process right now of just focusing everything that we have on our clientele. And and eventually, hopefully sometime down the road, we'll start bringing on more athletes or as coaches and interns to push the next generation. And and I'm 24, I'll be here for the long haul. Um, so I'm hoping to have something to do with the the uh coach development program. Um right now I'm I'm just the student learning from all these older dudes and and chicks in the program.

Yeah, awesome. You're only 24. I'm only 24, man. Oh god, you got a lot of life at school. Um incredible. Uh so if if I'm a trainer, uh if I'm a fitness professional, um can how do I seek education for you guys? How do I learn?

Yeah. So um we've got a three-tier program, right? The first one is our subscription-based model where you subscribe to one sport um and you follow that sport for however long until you want to move on up. Um the next step up from there would be our um tier two model, which is you have access to all of our blogs, um, all of our video archives, all of our programming every day, uh, and you can follow that for as long as you want. However, if you want to get super immersed into our unscared pro program, um, that's pretty much getting personal coaching, personal programming that's unlike any other one that you've ever received, as well as uh have ever seen online, because we incorporate stuff like breathing, we incorporate stuff like recovery with temperature training. Um so my recommendation for somebody trying to get immersed in the program is pay somebody to learn from them, right? And it and it's essentially our unscared pro program will do that for you. Um, I think it was Mike Bledsoe on the Barbell Shrug podcast that said it a little while ago is that if you're willing to chase something head on, you've got to do it with everything that you got. Like pay a guy just to live with him, just to learn from him, and do all that stuff so you can kind of pick up on the trades and skills.

Yeah, that's awesome. What did where did unscared come from? I know that's a long story, but um it's unscared.

Yeah, so yeah, it's uh and I've listened to Brian talk for probably more than I should on several podcasts and interviews. Uh I think it was him, Kelly, and Dave Castro were having lunch one day, uh, or dinner, or whatever. Don't quote me on this.

Yes.

Um and and something about pink arm sleeves went on when Kelly was trying to run a marathon and Kelly was just screaming, I'm unscared of you, Dave Castro, because Dave was making fun of the pink. And uh I think that's where it picked up from, man. And it's and it's branded into something much larger, right? Um, I occasionally, every other weekend, jump out of an airplane, and I'm always scared. But uh I think the mentality of being afraid or hesitant about it, but doing the act anyway is where the unscared brand really uh took off and really gives itself a name.

Oh, that's awesome. And that's just life, right? I mean, you there's always gonna be shit that scares you, and you just gotta step out. Because usually once you start, you're like, I wasn't that bad. Most most things. Like, I know someone's probably gonna be talking about that. Uh so I know you guys have been really really uh forging into breathing techniques. Yeah. Uh explain that to me and why as a fitness professional I should be cognizant of it and aware of it.

Yeah. Um, so about 80% of people, well, I I think it's more, 90% of people are breathing incorrectly. Uh, and there's a certain amount of breaths you should be taking within a minute uh that people are really, really exceeding because they're mouth breathers, right? And you get called a mouth breather as a joke and make people making fun of you. But it in the grand scheme of things, like it's actually an insult. Like you shouldn't be breathing through your mouth when you're not really doing anything. Um, and and this approach was founded on uh a lot of it was learning from Wim Hoff and what he was doing, taking that and and really just evolving it into different things where now we can downregulate, we can upregulate, um, we can uh compress stress down. Like Brian and I had a conversation probably about two or three months ago when I was going through a really rough patch, and he had me do a breath test on um how long I can take to exhale all of my air out. Uh and then from there, he wrote me a prescription on what to do first thing in the morning in stressed environments and before bed to to decompress and and just relax and chill out. Um, and and in that we've learned how to access the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system by just controlling our breathing.

Wow. So give me an example like what what was the morning routine that you did? Because I know this is Yeah, no, that's okay.

Uh so uh Just keep coughing it up. Um for $7.99. You can find out though. But the morning routine was uh a cadence where I would go one, two, one. So I would give be given a specific number based on what my test was, right? So let's say my one to one ratio was a six-second breath, either exhale, hold, or inhale. So I would inhale for six seconds, I would hold for 12 seconds because it's two to one, and then I would exhale for six again. So just having some sort of cadence and guidance to how you should be breathing really takes you out of the everyday world as well. Uh and it and it gives you something to focus on. So if if the breathing itself is not doing it for you, it at least gets you into a meditative state.

Yeah, awesome. And it's yeah, that that's uh and I'm sure you guys have a ton of stuff on your website that people can look at, but you know, I can sell, you know, most fitness professionals, it's not an easy field, right? It's competitive, um, it's undervalued and there's a lot of things, and I think stress management is a big deal, especially because okay, let's look at a normal day for a fitness professional. Okay, you you wake up probably super early. Maybe you have to you either train first thing because you gotta get it, you gotta get it done, or you go to a client and you gotta coach them. So you got to get up and then you get like 20 minutes to eat and then come down, and then you gotta go back up again, right? Because you always gotta be on point. If you're with somebody, you gotta be on point. If you're coaching a class, you gotta be on point. Um, so I think uh breathing exercises, I try to be aware of it, man. But uh it's it's so you so like you know, like as soon as you said it, I'm like, oh shit, I'm gonna breathe. Oh God. Yeah. What um another question for you. When when people are running, right, should you be breathing through your nose or through your mouth? I feel like I should know this answer.

Right. So it depends. Um, traditionally speaking, if we're breathing through our nose and we're we're able to restrict our workout to an aerobic workout, right? Because we're we're only taking in, and and chances are like your heart rate, if it's below 144, it's really aerobic. You can control everything that's going on, uh, and you're not going too far, too fast, or too quickly. Um now, if we start breathing through our mouths, that means we're kind of picking up the pace a little bit, turning over a little more breaths, a couple more breaths at a time. And uh essentially you'll see it on shorter intervals. But I would answer that question with um probably one that is just a safe bet of like it depends. It depends on what you're trying to do.

Okay. Yeah, I'm just thinking, you know, when I trail run, I generally start with nose breathing and then I'm full-on mouth breather. So, Daryl, tell me uh, because we were talking about this before with the recording. Uh, tell me what what's up with your life next. Yeah.

Yeah. So um after close to six years in the military, I'll be separating uh and then working at a company that you probably are familiar with called Lululemon. Um my hopes of of developing in that company are to obviously climb up the ladder and uh maybe hopefully run a store before I leave. But um we'll I'll be doing that until fall of 18, hopefully full-time. Then I'll roll into school, study something that I may or may not care about just to get a degree, uh, and then um fly the F-16 in the Colorado Air National Guard.

Yes. Yes. Oh, so um why why do you want to fly an F-16?

I mean, it's obvious to me, but it's uh yeah, there's there's a certain type of I think community aspect, just like there is in CrossFit, just like there is in strength and conditioning, just like there is in running, that F-16 pilots all just really get along. Um, and and it's more about the brotherhood than it is about how good of a pilot you are, right? And and that's kind of like I plan on taking that to a full advantage because I know I'm not gonna be the brightest guy in the room, but I'm I'm gonna try and be a cool guy to hang out with. So um, that's especially why I'm going through the guard, is because now you choose or the unit gets to choose who they hire, as opposed to you being assigned to a random location. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm super stoked for it. I mean, I've like I said, jumped out of airplanes, uh, but flying the F-16 will be a different adrenaline rush that I get to do every day for a living. Uh and the pay is pretty good.

So if you ever need uh if you ever take passengers, let me know. I would jump on the first on the list. Yeah, probably soil myself, but whatever. I'm unscared. Uh yeah, go unscared. What uh if if Daryl, if people want to get hold of you, um, ask you questions about everything that you do, um, where where do they find you?

So uh you can hit us up on our info line to schedule any seminars or anything at info at powerspeedendurance.com. Um, I can be found at uh Wang Daryl, which is my last name and my first name, W-A-N-G-D-A-R-E-L on Instagram, uh, and then Daryl Wang on Facebook. But uh other than that, I I think that's about it, man. Um yeah.

Awesome. Well, it's always a pleasure, Daryl. And we'll uh we'll we'll keep updated with what you're up to. And uh yeah, man, it's always great. I appreciate your time. And uh if there's anything we can do to help you, let us know. And I'm sure we'll be talking to you soon.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, thank you, Eric. It was a blast.

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