Dan Freed - Thesis & The Rise of Nootropics

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Hyperite, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases the product you've already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business with store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-ut.com. Just 1-0. W-r-K-O-U-T. Go get it. And we are live. Dan Freed, welcome to the future of fitness. Hi.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, man. I'm fired up. I uh gosh, there's so many things that we're going to talk about today. I mean, the category of nootropics thesis, your backstory, which is fascinating. Uh, my experience so far with your products and uh and and series A, right? That's that's huge news. So things are very exciting in your life, Dan. And uh I'm excited to have you on the show. And let's start with this because it sets the table for everything else that we're gonna talk about is your backstory. It's you know, unique, but it's it's a classical entrepreneurial backstory of solving your own problem and then helping other people solve the same problem, right? So uh let's start with that if you will. I'd love to hear it.

Sure. So, you know, the company started out of a challenge I've had my entire life. I've always struggled with classroom learning. And, you know, I was expelled from preschool. I have no idea what a four-year-old can do to get expelled, but I managed to do it. I was constantly in trouble when I was uh six. I was formally diagnosed with ADHD. They had they wanted to put me on Ritalin. This was the late 80s, and my mom said no. She was concerned about giving such a powerful medication to a child. So I went untreated. And it caused so much pain in my life. Like I could never understand why school was so hard for me. It wasn't that I couldn't understand what was happening. It was just I, no matter how hard I tried to force myself to focus, I couldn't do it. And, you know, my sister, she's now a doctor. She would come home from school and she would just sit there and study. And she could do it, and it looked so easy. And, you know, I always thought that there was something wrong with me. And people thought there was something wrong with me too. I mean, I was called stupid, I was called lazy. When I was 16, I ended up dropping out of high school. I just realized I couldn't do it and I went to work in fast food. So I was making sandwiches at Subway, and I watched my friends graduate high school, go off to college, and I was still, you know, working for minimum wage. It was a very painful time in my life. I ended up getting a lucky break, which was incredible, and becoming a chef. It was the first time that I saw something that I was good at. It almost came naturally to me, and I was really passionate. Like I would work all day, come home, read cookbooks, fall asleep reading cookbooks, and then go back the next day and cook. And that career took me around the world. I spent about a decade as a chef. I worked in a Michelin three-star restaurant in France. And then in my late 20s, I was an executive sous chef on board a cruise ship. My job evolved beyond just cooking. And I spent at that time very little time actually cooking, which was what I was good at and passionate about. And it all spreadsheets and scheduling, food costs, things like that. And I came to the realization that the hospitality industry wasn't for me. So I wanted to switch. Startups were something that I was starting to get interested in, but nobody would take a bet on me. It was very difficult to convince somebody that my skills as a chef could transfer to other industries. So I decided to go back to school. I got this crazy idea that an MBA was the degree that I wanted. And, you know, I still don't have a high school diploma, never went to undergrad. Um, I started contacting schools, and one interviewed me, and they agreed to admit me into their MBA program if I could score in the 80th percentile on the GMath, the entrance exam. So I got a book and started studying. It felt like I was back in high school. I would read a page five times. I would try to, you know, force myself to focus, and I just couldn't do it. I wasn't making any progress. And that's when I discovered nootropics. I heard about them on a study forum. I immediately went out and bought everything I could find. And I would take different ingredients and study. Most of them did nothing, but a couple of them worked. And when I figured out how to combine them into a formula, the results were life-changing. So I ended up scoring in the 99th percentile on the GMAP, which surprised the hell out of me. It got me into NCAD, one of the best MBA programs in the world. It was such a unique challenge because, you know, my first educational experience as an adult was sitting in a classroom with consultants from McKinsey and investment bankers from Goldman. It was a very tough adjustment period, but I leveraged nootropics and healthy habits to excel. And from there, I was offered a scholarship to do another master's degree at Yale, which brought me back to the US. Most of my chef experience was international. And then from there I transitioned to startups. Nootropics was just always a side passion. I became an evangelist. So this was almost 10 years ago now. I've taken nootropics now every day for 10 years. And, you know, at first I was just, I was the guy at dinner parties that wouldn't shut up about nootropics. I was giving them to my mom, to my friends. Um back then I was taking mostly powders. So I would go into a coffee shop and take out a milligram scale and start weighing out all these white powders, and people are looking at me like I'm crazy. And, you know, from those early days, what I realized was the ingredients that worked for me didn't work for everybody. And so I created our first product in my apartment. And it was it was based off the same iterative approach that I used to find my formula, except instead of taking six months and thousands of dollars, a customer could do it in less than a month for less than $100. And we, you know, I bootstrapped it out of my apartment to a million a month in revenue before we raised any institutional capital. That was such a difficult journey learning just about everything about starting a company from scratch, and it took years. And once we were at that scale, we raised our first venture round. It was a $5 million seed round. Since then, we've built out a team, rebranded, expanded out our product line. Um and we just recently, a couple weeks ago, closed our Series A, uh, which was a $9 million round, uh, which really allows us to invest in more long-term growth.

Wow, man, what a story. And congratulations on that Series A. That's that's a huge milestone. I mean, it's it there's so many things I want to unpack in that story too. I'm really curious about the first blend that you started that that really hit for you. What was that? What constituted that blend?

So I get asked this all the time, and it's the wrong question. Um, it's not what worked for me, it's what works for each individual. And you, for example, what happens to you when you drink a cup of coffee? How do you respond? If I give you a cup of coffee now and ask you a half an hour from now how you feel, what what would your response be?

Uh I feel pretty good. You know, I don't drink a lot of coffee, but I drink just enough and I don't get why I don't get all you know agitated. I I have a pretty uh calm focus with it for the most part.

Great. So that's the majority of people have that response. Caffeine does almost nothing to me in regular doses. And, you know, my girlfriend she'll drink half a cup of coffee and she'll be jittery and shaky. And there's no way to really tell the difference between you, me, and my girlfriend. There's no genetic test, there's no blood test. There are some things that, you know, measure caffeine metabolism, but that's not an accurate predictor of how you're gonna respond. So the only way to really know is to give you a cup of coffee and ask you how you feel. Essentially, what our product does is it allows you to trial a lot of different ingredients and discover what works for your unique brain chemistry and your goals. Um, the formulas that I take are clarity, energy, and confidence. So we were just talking, you know, I get mild performance anxiety now before podcasts and and things like that. And confidence just suppresses uh that that feeling and allows me to be my best.

I think that's a good segue because I I want to get into like the product and the consumer experience. And now that I've had the opportunity to go through it, um, you know, it's really interesting. It's it's it's different. And I had the pleasure of uh talking to Jacob from your team uh numerous times. He's kind of guided me through uh you know what what the opportunities are as you start using your your products and uh supplement line. So you I get sent a box, right? I fill out a questionnaire, right? And and correct me if maybe I went up out of order compared to a normal consumer. But you know, give some information. I get sent a trial pack with four different options. I'm looking at confidence, clarity, logic, and motivation are the different blends. You try them for a period of time, you get consulted within your, you know, someone within your company kind of guides you until you find the right blends and the right um, you know, uh supplements for the right timing and different circumstances in your life and when you're doing different activities or need different points of focus. So is that, am I getting that right from my end? I mean, it's it's pretty uh it's almost prescriptive through trial and error. Is that correct?

Exactly. So that initial survey allows us to narrow down where you should start because there's a lot of different ingredients and different blends and variations. Once you, once we know enough about you, we don't say this is what you should take. We say these four formulas have the highest probability of being effective for you and your goals. Take each one for a week. Tell us which ones you liked, which ones you didn't, and we'll work with you to get you to the right blend, whether it's in those initial four or whether we have to continue to recommend other blends.

And is uh is that always the process, or can people like purchase one particular blend? Or do you have do you do you require people to go through that that trial and error?

So we have more flexibility initially. Um, so when we launched, this was the product we launched with out of my apartment.

Placebo, okay.

It was, you know, an early adopter, an early adopter product, it actually had placebos in the box, and users were blinded. So it would just be a packet. There were no formula names. It was just day one, day two, day three. Every day you would take a packet of pills, tell us how you felt, and if you if you thought they were working and what they were doing to you. End of the month, we would analyze your data, tell you what worked, what didn't. Um, sometimes people would choose the placebo, and it's like, hey, you chose the placebo, save your money. Um, nootropics aren't effective for you for this use case. Um, and since then it's evolved significantly. So, one, we're well beyond the early adopters who are willing to do an intensive um trial like that. So now we have more flexibility. We recommend most people go through the starter kit process, but our blends have also gotten much better. So we're constantly iterating, changing dosages, ingredients, testing across our customer base, you know, and understanding at this point we have hundreds of thousands of reviews. So we can see which blends are working, which ones aren't. And that allows us to have more flexibility. So if you want to just go to our website and you know, hey, I want the energy formula, that's perfectly fine. You can just select that and purchase it.

Yeah, and and anecdotally for myself, I really like the confidence blend. I I was telling you before we started recording here is I record on Friday mornings. Um, for the most part, you know, every once in a while I'll switch it up due to unique scheduling. But the uh I'll take confidence before, and sometimes I record back to back, right? So it's two hours of recording. And you gotta, you know, for someone who literally sees squirrels and gets distracted, that's you know, it's it's pretty amazing that I I can hold focus for that period of time. Not just hold focus, but like intently focused on the conversation. And I I have to say it's uh it's noticeably different. So there is there's absolutely some some substantial effects to to the product line. Who should take nootropics and and why? I mean, I think is it and imagine as a category, it's kind of getting past the early adopter phase. I mean, just looking at your revenue numbers and investment numbers, like it's really starting to hit a mass market. Would you say that's true? And and how is how is the consumer base shifting uh in the nootropics category?

So I definitely think that we're at this inflection point where we're getting past the early adopters. Currently, the majority of people who purchase our product have never heard of nootropics before are purchasing thesis. I look at it as following a very similar trajectory as an industry to the probiotics industry. Ten years ago, the concept of ingesting good bacteria for gut health was absurd. You know, it was very niche. And now you walk into Whole Foods, there's an entire section for probiotics. Um nootropics work, they have a lot of benefits for a lot of different people, and I see it as inevitable that it's going to be a larger industry. As far as who should take nootropics, I can start with who should not take nootropics.

Okay.

My sister, she should not take nootropics. She can function in life and has absolutely no need for something like this. She's already very high function. For me, it unblocks my potential. So when you look at classroom learning, a hundred years ago, so my grandparents or great grandparents, there were no classrooms. You know, this is something that's new in human evolution to need to sit in front of a computer. Technology has far outpaced my genetics. And so I need help. I need something to allow me to optimize my neurotransmitters so that I can function in this new type of environment. And that's what nootropics does for me. And that shows up in a lot of different ways. Um, so you mentioned confidence, and I'll I'll give you kind of like a little bit of background to understand how I've solved my performance anxiety problem. So, you know, and I can talk about focus too, but it's not only nootropics, it's nootropics along with challenging myself, developing healthy habits. When I was in my early 20s, I was working in a hotel, and as, you know, in an employee development thing, we had to do a skip in front of a hundred people. I got up on stage and I froze. That's how bad my performance anxiety was. I literally froze. I couldn't talk. I was like bright red. That's like worst case. Yeah, it was. It's like what people dream about. Like I'm up there, I'm with a group of people, and I just freeze. And so I recognized early on that if I wanted to be successful in my career and just in life, I needed to address this. And so for years, I forced myself to push the limits. I started doing acting and improv. Um eventually, when I was at Yale, um, I took a drama school course in it, it was actually called clown science. Um I became a clown. I had to perform every week in this like improv type environment. And, you know, before class, I would get sick to my stomach. I would, it was the most difficult course that I had during my time at Yale was this class. And so it's constantly challenging myself that I've been able to overcome that. What Nootrobics does is it allows me to push myself a little bit further. So in those times where I pushed myself, it it provided the support. It gave me it confidence is primarily targeted to serotonin and GABA. So it made me more pro-social. It improved my verbal fluency, it lowered my anxiety and allowed me to push a little bit more each time. And over years, I went from somebody who would freeze on stage to being able to have you know big interviews. I'm doing a TV interview next week, and I'm able to function in a level that I never imagined possible.

That's awesome. And I've actually talked about improv a few times on this show because I I think it's something that everybody should do. I I it was very unlikely the way that I came across it is I end up having when I own uh one of one of the gyms I had, there was a couple members who did improv locally in Santa Barbara, and we did a couple improv sessions and I took a little course with them. Uh, we actually did it at the gym, and I was amazed with how how it worked its way into everything of my life and my business. You know, like on this podcast, I talk about it all the time, or if I'm working with a new uh someone who's a new podcaster, and you know, interviewing people is a lot like improv. Like you uh you always have to have faith. Like I don't know if you ever did this exercise where there's like a box, a black box, and it's empty, right? And you pass it around from person to the to the next person. There's like a a way where it's uh the the train is continued, there's like something you say every time you pass it, but there's nothing in the box. And when you get the box, you have to like basically just be confident that you can create in something in your imagination that there's something in the box. And you're always worried that when someone hands you the box that you're gonna you're just gonna blank, right? You're gonna freeze. But there's always something in the box. And I find that's the same way with interviews. It's like people are always worried about what's the next question gonna be, like, what's the next topic? I'm like, there's always something in the box, you just have to be present and listening. And that's a really powerful thing. And when you with your experience from improv and especially in the clown one, that sounds hysterical. But what what have you pulled out of that, you know, from maybe your for your business career or everyday life outside of the stage?

I mean, it's transformed my relationship with public speaking, it's allowed me to take a lot more risks, but essentially, you know, getting back to kind of like how nootropics allows me to push my limits, that's the core of what's been transformational for me. So it's usually like a behavioral intervention paired with the right nootropics and creating this flywheel loop where I'm constantly challenging myself and growing. And what nootropics does is it gives me the momentum, it allows me to make some progress so that I can get that loop started and it accelerates the learning. Um, improv and clowning in particular was transformational. There were some, yeah. I mean, I can go into some some pretty funny stories, um, but that's that's the core of what I'm driven by is kind of like I recognize a weakness, I see a challenge, I come up with a plan that involves both behavior and nootropics, and then just create this flywheel of learning where I'm able to grow. And it doesn't happen overnight. I think this is one of the other big misconceptions with nootropics. So getting back to kind of like focus and attention, which was my biggest problem for most of my life, um, which is incredible because now it's it's not that I don't still struggle with it, but I'm able to function at a level that I never could have imagined. So getting back to kind of like the GMAT and studying, I would sit down and just try to force myself. Like I couldn't understand, I would want to put my head through the wall. Like, why can't I do this? And just making incremental pro progress, understanding, like, okay, have the Pomodoro technique, make sure that I'm focused like this. This is the type of environment that I need. And, you know, my attention span would go from five minutes to 10 minutes to 20 minutes, and then before I know it, I can get into this flow state, be highly productive. And all of those things that used to distract me are just gone. And I wish I could say that it's like that every day, but most days it's like that. And the level that I'm able to operate at is beyond anything I could have imagined.

That's awesome. So you're at an interesting point in the business, right? Series A. Um, I would imagine there's a lot of excitement, but there's also a lot of expectations, right? You're growing the team. Uh, you have, I'm sure you now partially answered to a board. There's, you know, very specific goals for where the business needs to be. And culture as you grow is the most challenging I I've seen from entrepreneurs in the companies I've worked with, is like a very difficult thing to define and and maintain. But as you grow and you're hiring people, um how how do you describe the culture you have at your company? Because I like it so far from the people I've met. Everyone seems very calm, right? Everyone seems very easy to talk to. So, how do you kind of manage your culture and how are you looking at that now that you're you're in a mass hiring phase?

So that's one of my biggest concerns now that we're in this hiring phase, just keeping the unique special culture that we have. We were shaped by being a bootstrapped company and that has a lot of Disadvantages, but some of the advantages that I didn't even recognize at the time have created such a strong culture. So we couldn't afford to pay salaries early on, like very, very low salaries. So we instituted something where we didn't negotiate on salary. Everybody in the company made the same salary, no matter what. It was just like, okay, you know, we don't have money. You believe in the mission, you want to join, this is what we can do. And as we grow, we'll we'll give raises.

Cool.

And so the first five people that came on, they all took pay cuts. So Jacob, who you mentioned, like he came from um banking and had uh a huge transition to come here. It wasn't uh, I wish we could have paid more competitive salaries and gotten different talent, but by having that structure in place early on, we got highly motivated people that believed in the mission and that carried over. Our the core value that we have, that everything kind of like feeds into is growth. It's what we provide to our customers, it's what we live by here. And, you know, I just discussed the growth process for me. It's constantly challenging yourself, growing, improving, figuring out how to be better. I look at this company and this role as turning me into the person that I want to be. So fundraising is incredibly difficult. The market right now is tough. You're constantly going out pitching, getting rejected. Um, investors are very risk averse now. And I'm not good at raising money. Uh, that was one of the skills that I had to learn. But I knew that it was making me who I wanted to be. And the skills that I was learning was, you know, they're incredibly valuable, especially now as I transition to hiring. I'm able to pitch much better. Um and that's kind of like the core of what we have. So we create an environment where it's safe to make mistakes. We value accountability. I take accountability when I make a mistake, but it's it's just really clear. So, you know, what was the what was the error? What was the impact? What did I learn from it? And what am I going to implement in the future to prevent things like this from happening again? And that's it. It's gone. It's just like, okay, as long as we're learning and growing, not every project or initiative needs to be a success. As long as we learn from it, it is a success. And that's deeply ingrained in our culture.

Yeah, I love it. So there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there who listen, I don't know, if a lot, maybe a couple, uh, to this podcast who, you know, are are in the middle of raising or they want to raise soon. You know, when you talk about the things, how you had to evolve during your your fundraising, your pitching, like what were some of the things that specifically that you really had to refine or learn or go out and get resources or get some coaching on? How how did you how did you change?

So I surrounded myself with people who have raised a lot of money. And they helped me refine the pitch. They helped me understand raising capital, especially, I don't have a background in this. And when you ask somebody for millions of dollars, it's very strange the first time. It's like, holy shit. Um, so just getting comfortable with that, really refining my communication skills, understanding what investors care about and getting to the point quickly, kind of like checking the boxes of what they're looking for. That was really valuable. I think the things that I would recommend for people who are going through this, it is such a brutal process in this market. And we have great metrics. We ended up with a great outcome. I couldn't be happier with our investors, but it's hard. And especially going from, you know, the company's really successful, there's always challenges, but we're growing and going into an environment where it's just constant skepticism, everybody saying, like, oh, this isn't gonna make it, and let me tell you why. What kept me going, one of the things, was customer reviews. And so I implemented something that I would just sit and read how our product is impacting customers. And having that resolve where it's like, this needs to exist. We're helping people, we're taking a lot of pain out of the world, allowed me to remain confident and just know that what I'm doing is the right path.

That's uh I think that's really valuable for people too. And surrounding yourself by people who have done it before, um, I mean, that's just the fundamental, you know, mentoring process. I imagine uh I've been on some pitches where uh I haven't been the one leading the pitch, but asking for a lot of money and it is it's just an interesting thing. You're like, you ask for it and then you're like silent, like, gosh, what did I just ask for? Like that's that's bananas. Um one of the things I know you're really passionate about too is the process in which you guys do product development, right? Um, the exploration. And I think that's entwined in the culture too. So maybe expand on that. Like, how do you continue to push forward in the products?

Yeah, I mean, it's neuroscience and the human brain is endlessly fascinating to me. It's just, you know, once once I got exposed to it, I couldn't get enough. I constantly read, watch lectures, I took courses in it. Um, and I strongly believe in this iterative approach. We built a formulation engine that's built on data. So we're constantly testing new ingredients. I personally, so outside of just nootropics, I experiment all the time. I'm always doing like hormone optimization, longevity, trying different products that are out there, understanding what's working, what's not. I think that's a huge gift just as a human being that I can try different things and see how my body and my brain responds. One of the things that we implemented here, every Friday we have a team lunch and we buy a different D2C product in the health and wellness space, and we try it as a team. And it's, you know, everything from functional foods and beverages to things in the VMS space. And we do a breakdown of okay, here's their marketing, here's the messaging, this is the packaging. What do we like? What don't we like? How do you like the product? How does it taste? How do you feel? Are they delivering on their promises? What can we learn from it? Um, and that's deeply, deeply ingrained in our culture. I think one of the things that I see a lot of most companies don't have formulation and science at the core of what they do. They outsource that. Uh, a lot of companies in the supplement space in particular, they're marketing companies. And, you know, I know that because I was a consultant. I was a formulator that would come in and, you know, somebody wants to create a functional food or beverage, and they would come to me and say, this is what we're going for, and I would make it. And then they would just take that. There's no iteration. It's just like, okay, this is what we're doing. They never change it. We're constantly trying to improve. And when I think about it, it's almost like the way that I'm constantly trying to improve myself. We're constantly tinkering with the product, seeing how we can get it to the next level.

Uh would you consider yourself a biohacker if you had to look at that category?

Yeah, I mean, that's a term, again, that's that's more of kind of like an early adopter term. I look at, you know, like I said, it's one of the greatest gifts that I have that I'm able to run experiments on myself and constantly optimize. I I know where I want to grow and who I want to be. And I can try different behavioral interventions. So I don't just optimize on um products. It's like, okay, let me try, you know, cold plunge, different workout routines, really discovering what's right for me. I think one of the things that a lot of people do is they look at what's right for other people and they don't do enough. There's there's this thing in computer science where it's like explore versus exploit. A lot of people don't spend enough time exploring and figuring out, you know, what's right for me and have enough of a sample to be calibrated and say, like, oh, this is the best thing. It's just like, oh, this person told me this works, so I'm gonna try it and it should work for me. Um, and that's something that I think I'm lucky that I just like experimentation and I built a lot of frameworks over the years to judge whether or not something's working or not. I track a lot of my own metrics. Um, so I guess that's biohacking. Um, but I think that it's uh a lot of people run experiments. What I do that's more unique is I structure it a little bit better.

Yeah, that it's really interesting. The reason I ask is oh, once again to bring up Jacob, we were we were talking and uh he asked me if I was a biohacker, and I'm like, no, not really. And then I started talking about some of the things I I I do and I play with, like trying some peptides right now, right? And he's like, he's like, dude, you're a biohacker. I'm like, oh, I guess I am. That's kind of funny. So what what are you working on? Like, what are you playing with right now? We you just mentioned peptides. Are you uh what's your experience with those so far?

I've tried a bunch of peptides. Um, there's some that work well. So um I recently did Sermorelin. Um that was it was actually recommended by uh Dr. Andrew Huberman. We were having dinner and I was discussing kind of like some of my goals, and sleep is something that I really struggle with. Um I've constantly gone on we're developing a sleep product, but just in general, I've had difficulty sleeping for more than a decade. Um and so there's peptides that can be particularly helpful with sleep and also optimizing growth hormone. Um that was something that I did recently. Um I do, you know, I did uh different types of IV drips. I do a lot of experimentation in the psychedelic world. Um, psychedelics is something that has completely changed my life. Um and when you get into that, so microdosing is one thing. I strongly believe that it works. It does not work for me. I've tried every single type of microdosing. The only one where I saw reasonable benefits was Eboga, um, which is a very rare psychedelic. And I've seen it transform people's lives, it's just not a good fit for me. And recognizing that and saying, like, okay, something about my unique brain chemistry, it's not what I need. And nootropics is a better fit. Um, but being open to that, and I always encourage people to not just take what works for somebody else, but to go through that experimentation process.

That's a really good point. You know, a lot of people don't go through the self-experimentation process, and and you need to. I mean, gosh, we're in such a fascinating time to be alive right now where all these things are accessible. I mean, nootropics and psychedelics and you know, uh hormone therapies and peptides and all this stuff is now becoming, you know, accessible. It's still, you know, a lot of it's still on the on the rather expensive side. Um, you know, at least in the in the peptides and some of the hormone stuff. But uh it's accessible. And, you know, you can't just listen to, you know, a Rogman or Human Rogan or a Huberman, which I love both of them. They're two of my, you know, uh podcast idols when I when I look at what the work that they do. They can't just listen to them. You got to take that information, actually apply it, right? And see how it works for you personally. And I think that's that's a really key point that a lot of people over here because they'll just hear a protocol and like, okay, I'm just gonna do that protocol. But then they don't have any structure in place to see if it's actually working for them and how do you measure it and how do you know?

Yeah. I mean, I wish it was that easy. If if there was something that worked for if there was a nootropic that worked for everyone, we would make it. Like our data just shows that that's not the way the brain works. Um, one of the things that I do, and this is kind of like when you get more into kind of like what is biohacking versus experimentation, um, a lot of the things that I test, I'll run placebo-controlled experiments. So if I'm trying a peptide, not every time, but sometimes, I'll blind myself. So I can give it to a friend or a girlfriend or my girlfriend and just say, I don't want to know what I'm taking. You know, just run a controlled experiment. I'm tracking my performance in the areas that I want to improve. And I can see, does this move the needle or not? And that takes away a lot of the bias. So, you know, you you talked about some great podcasters that have a lot of influence. It's like, oh, this works for that person, so I'm gonna take it without really getting the data, like it works for that person because they probably went through some type of experimentation and figured out that that works for them. Um, yeah. And that's why, like, when when the question I get asked the most is like, what nootropics work for you? And I'm always kind of hesitant. And even when like I promote peptides, I know that there are some peptides that work great for me. That doesn't mean that other people should just say, okay, like there, there's no substitute for actually doing the work and discovering what works best.

Yeah, awesome. When you look at, I guess, let's just collectively say this field is, you know, human optimization, longevity, you know, we'll kind of wrap that into like, I don't know, all the things we're talking about, right? Um, what has you the most excited? I mean, I'm I'm really excited about the field of psychedelics for so many reasons. Like I've seen good friends of mine, you know, go through some um some experiences, right? However you want to call it, and and come out the other side just fundamentally changed, right? Um rewired. Some other people, not so much, right? Um, peptides, I think, you know, I haven't talked to a lot of people who like it's blown their minds yet, but it's very hopeful. You know, and we when you look at this this whole category overall, what has you the most excited about the future?

I think it's more that the category is finally getting the attention that it needs. Historically, most of the innovation was around diseases. And, you know, I understand that. People want to cure cancer and Alzheimer's, and there should be a lot of talent working on those. But human optimization has been historically severely underfunded. Um, it wasn't really about reaching your potential, it was more about how do we treat and prevent diseases. I think that there's a shift now where people want to feel better. Um, people are recognizing that you can prevent some of these, you know, especially like neurodegenerative diseases by being more proactive earlier on. Um, my father passed away from Parkinson's and Alzheimer's runs in my family. So I I I saw that and I can see why people are there's a lot of really smart, talented people working on those. But I think what's encouraging to me is people are really looking at quality of life improvements, whereas previously they weren't. They were more about treating symptoms. Um, and I think that that's gonna unlock just just having that attention and having these like the talent gravitating towards that in the space is gonna be a game changer.

Yeah. The the level of proactivity when it comes to each individual's health is really encouraging. I mean, it's it's trending upwards, and that's that's exciting. Uh what about longevity, man? I mean, you you see uh you know the David Sinclairs and those people out there who are, you know, really doing some some crazy fundamental work and expectations are high. I had uh Eric Cassabury on the show from Serotonin Centers, and you know, he projected that uh we just jokes about it because we're about the same age. I'm like, hey, if we you know stay healthy and we kind of follow these new emerging protocols, like how long do you think we can live? And he said 140 um and quality years for a majority of that. How how do you sit in the longevity world? Like, do you do you think we're gonna have some major breakthroughs in our lifetime?

Yes. I mean, I I think the majority of people now die from stress-related illnesses or things where it's like second and third order consequences of modern technology. Um, that's a huge emerging trend where you know the obesity epidemic that we're in, you some things changed um in how cheap and easy it is to produce food, but the quality of that food went down. Immediately, society was able to support a lot more people, and and it was a very good thing. Like now people can eat meat and and and things like that. But then the second order consequence is obesity. Um, so you you have a lot of these things. I think I'm very privileged that I'm healthy and I'm able to invest time and money in things like longevity and and just staying healthy. Um I take NMN um and different, I don't do too much for longevity. It's more kind of like short-term benefits around uh energy levels. It's very difficult to measure longevity. Uh so you know, if you look at it, imagine if in one year you only age 11 months. That's very difficult to actually measure what the impact's gonna be. Um I look at the science, I like David Sinclair and some of his views. Um, it's less of, I don't spend too much time on things optimized in that space. It's more kind of like, how can I feel better? How can I be healthier? Um, the core things, so and this is like one of the one of the differences of opinions that I have with Andrew Huberman. I think that a lot of people think that supplements are kind of like the top of the pyramid. It's like that last five to 10% of optimization. I look at nootropics as something that can help get the ball moving, help gain momentum so that you can make progress and have this positive feedback loop with different behavioral interventions and really grow. With longevity, it really is top of the pyramid because you're not getting any immediate benefits. Um, and so I spend less time optimizing there, but I do think it's a very promising field. Um, I really like Blueprint. Um I'm blanking on his name now, but uh Brian. Um I I I can look it up, but he's uh the former founder of Braintree, who's investing, he's also the founder of Kernel. Um, really interesting how he's, you know, if you look at only optimizing for this one thing and getting he has this really data-driven process to doing that and an end of one study. Um, that's the way that I would tackle the longevity problem uh if I were working on it. And I I think it's encouraging that there are people with resources going after it.

Yeah, it's a fascinating field and it's really exciting, you know, but ultimately I have to like step back and take perspective on things and realize that um a lot of people just aren't at a point in their life where they can focus on longevity, right? It's like the struggle is real day to day. Longevity is so far, like, you know, how do we help the masses? You know, the obesity epidemic, the stress, the isolation, all these, you know, problems that we're seeing nowadays. Um, and I always have to kind of step back and think, like, okay, these are, you know, I get to play with some of these things and it's a lot of fun. Um, but you know, we have some some really big issues that we need to to attend to within our society. Um, but we don't have to get into that right now. Uh tell me what what you need right now. Um and I always ask this question, you know, in the spirit of collaboration with you know our audience and our community in the fitness, health, and wellness industry. Uh what do you need? How can we help you?

So we're hiring. We're hiring for a lot of key roles. That's what the Series A unlocks. So we're in the middle of a uh COO search process, which is going to be a transformational role, somebody to work side by side with me, build out the team, uh, and help scale the company. We're hiring across marketing, products, creative. Um, any talented people can reach out to me directly or or through an intro. Um we're really looking for people that are passionate about the space. And I know that a lot of your listeners are passionate. Um, yeah, that that's the the next six months is gonna be all about hiring for me.

Yeah, awesome, man. Well, I think there's uh yeah, there's a lot of people who are interested in a long-term career. And it's such a we're at a very so this is Q2 2023 that we're recording. And um, you know, the hiring market's pretty fascinating right now. I think there's still a little confidence, a lot of confidence for uh the people who are kind of jumping from job to job, but I'm wondering if the next six months is you know gonna be more like people locking in and be like, oh thank God I have a good role that I can stick into for the next three years. Uh, I was talking to a younger gentleman um the other day, and he's like, Oh yeah, you know, if I don't like it, I'll just quit and I'll just find another job in five days. I'm like, I don't know how long those days are gonna be around, buddy. You may want to, you know, stick to something for a little while. Anyway, that's anecdotal. Um, Dan, this is really interesting stuff. I I appreciate what you guys are doing. I I like the insights. I could talk to you and people like you all the time who are you know into the experimentation and kind of pushing the the edge and and helping people just perform and live better. I think it's a really uh it's a really fun place to be in. It sounds like you and your team really enjoy it. So thank you uh for taking you know an hour of your Friday morning and joining me. And it's uh it's been an absolute pleasure, man.

Thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Ladies and gentlemen, Dan Fried. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This was your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, Catbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because I put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the feature of fitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the feature of fitness. Have a great day.