Autism Fitness - Eric Chessen

What's beautiful about it is that we're we're still looking at human movement and we're still looking at human behavior. It's a little more nuanced. We have to dial into it a little bit more. I'm not saying that every trainer um has the capacity to work with this population, but those who do realize, I think, relatively quickly that this is applicable to many different different athletes of the population.

What's up, FitnessFans? Welcome back to the Future Fitness Podcast and Interview Series. This is your host again, Eric Halco, and this is episode number 60 of Eric Chester. So Eric is the CEO founder of AutismFitness.com. And Eric has been working with the Autistic population since 2003. It's a long time. And he do he's now developed the system. And I will tell you all about it here in a second to do certifications for it. Before I do, I have a pretty fun announcement. We have another podcast coming. So we're gonna keep the future of fitness podcast. We love it. And we're gonna make it a little bit more of a longer form, longer conversation piece. Um, but we still want to talk to a lot of fitness professionals and have the opportunity and privilege to highlight. So it's called the fitness blitz. It's right, short interviews highlighting fitness professionals from all over the world. And we're super excited. We already have about 30 uh people booked, and by the time this gets released, we'll be recording. So if you're interested, if you want to be highlighted as a fitness professional, I'd love to. Yeah, just shoot me an email, uh Eric at fitnessmarketingalliance.com, and uh I'll hook you up with the application and how to schedule your interview. So yeah, it's called a fitness blitz, super exciting. Uh, you're gonna get a lot of value from it because that's our goal. So back to Eric Chess and the PAC method. So PAC stands for physical adaptive cognitive. So essentially it is a if-then system. If this, then that. And he's not trying to simplify a very complicated field. Uh, he's just trying to make it easier for fitness professionals to get in and help uh people with autism. And the physical route is a great way to train the mind. We all know that because we've been in the industry for a long time. So uh great cause, and it's uh autismfitness.com. They are doing certifications now so you can learn uh more about working with this particular uh part of our society and our communities, and we would love it if you did so. So without further ado, let's get into it. Number 60 with Eric Chesson. Hey fitness fans, welcome back to the Future of Fitness podcast. Today I have the extreme pleasure of talking to Eric Chesson from Autism Fitness. Eric, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much, Eric.

Yeah. Eric, Eric, this is gonna be fun. We're gonna have a good time with this. Uh and I like that you spell your name with a C as well. So one less thing to remember. Exactly. Uh so you and I have had a couple great conversations before this recording. And uh so give people some background before we get into the real nuts and bolts of what you do now. Give us some background on what led up to autism fitness and uh some of your background in the fitness industry.

Definitely. So just about over 15 years ago, I was working as a personal trainer working with the general population, and I was also in classes uh in graduate school classes for general psych, but the program I was in had a very heavy emphasis on uh behavior analysis or applied behavior analysis. And I had a classmate who was interested in incorporating some of my fitness knowledge into this program she worked for, which focused on uh lower-functioning individuals uh on the autism spectrum. So, over the course of a five-minute bus ride to the train station, she convinced me to apply to work for this program, which is uh affiliated with Johns Hopkins' uh neurology department. And so they were interested. I started working with them, and at the same time, I was still very new in my training career as well, but at the same time I was getting better as a fitness professional. I was also undergoing this very intensive training in applied behavior analysis, which is uh the most effective educational and uh and behavioral intervention and teaching strategy uh for the autism population. So I found that there were a lot of uh similarities between those two practices, and everything that I do now is based on an interdisciplinary model. What I also found or didn't find was a lot of information specifically on developing fitness programs for the autism population. But what I did find was uh a lot of general information about the importance of fitness is important for all populations, special needs populations included. So I didn't find a lot of that stuff, and I think it's because there was not much of an interdisciplinary model. There wasn't a lot of talking between the fitness and the behavior therapy or or intervention fields. So at the time I started taking a what what happened pretty soon after I started working with this program was I had a uh behavior therapist contact me who said, Look, I usually do early intervention, so ages two to four. She said, I just took on the these uh these two cases. They're both 12-year-old boys. I have no idea what the hell to do with them. Can you help? And I said, Yeah, I think I can. So I started uh working with these boys and early on, and uh a couple misconceptions that I like getting out of the way uh with with respect to autism fitness. So I don't just work with young individuals because uh people have a tendency to associate uh fitness programs or uh especially special needs therapeutic uh or activity programs with children. And the my the average age of one of my athletes is around 21, 22, uh up to my oldest athlete right now is 57. And the second part is whether or not it's for just higher functioning individuals. And I've never been um in the position or taken the position of cherry picking or or selecting specific individuals who I feel like would be a good fit for the program, certainly early in my business because I was trying to uh build a business, and because I had the training background, I said anybody and and everybody, which really benefited the methodology that I developed because that meant it had to work for every single individual. So I started off my career working with some really low-functioning individuals, both from uh a cognitive perspective and then from an adaptive or behavioral perspective uh also. So it's not as though the program is for high-functioning individuals between the ages of six and twelve. It's it's quite the opposite most of that time. I get a lot of non-verbal athletes, um, and and a lot of my athletes don't start off and join fitness programs. So now, 15 years later, uh what I do on a day-to-day basis is work one-to-one or in in small groups uh with my athletes. And then I've developed uh an educational system and uh methodology for other fitness professionals and therapists and practitioners who want to integrate fitness programs uh into the lives of individuals on the autism spectrum.

Awesome. So that that's a that's quite a journey. I can you give us some stats? Give us some statistics on autism, like you know, what percentage of the population has it? You gave me an interesting stat when we talked a couple of weeks ago about how um a lot of it is you know, people who are now at an older age are getting diagnosed, and that's a big growing part of autism. Some surprising stats.

So for the past decade, we've seen this uh upward trend of autism diagnoses, and that's not to say that we don't have a good segment of the population. I I think that right now the stats are of the uh nearly I believe 300 million people in the United States alone, uh 1.1 or 1.2 million people are diagnosed on the autism spectrum. So that's yeah, that's that that's a good amount. And the statistic that uh that's usually in place or or seen the most is uh one in 68 children are are diagnosed somewhere along the the autism spectrum. Recently it's been uh reported that there is a plateau in diagnoses, which does not mean that autism is going away. It just means that a lot of um I I think what's happened is a lot of the individuals that have been diagnosed retroactively, so now you get early diagnoses up to as early as you know a year or a year and a half because of medical science and and some of the indicators that um that therapists can see now. But you have these two or three generations of individuals who are in their late 20s or their 30s or their 40s who are now being were or were being diagnosed retroactively. So I think that accounts for a big pool of the uh the diagnosis in the last maybe five or 10 years. So now we see a leveling out of that because everybody who wasn't diagnosed before is now pulled into the autism spectrum. And we can discuss you know stats and numbers, but the reality is whereas I guess 10 or 12 years ago, you would ask somebody, oh, do you know anybody on the autism uh spectrum? And people would say, Oh, no, not really, but I saw you know an article about it or something. Now you ask somebody and they say, Oh, yeah, my my neighbor or my cousin, or yeah. So I think people have um a much more first or or second hand relationship with somebody on the autism spectrum now. And I think there's a much better cultural awareness of what autism is and what autism is not at this point. And that's uh a lot of public education, and I think just people being around individuals who are on the autism spectrum also. So that that personal interaction and and getting to know somebody who is on the autism spectrum helps a lot to um to further people uh people's working knowledge of autism. And then the other statistic that I believe you and I covered was the fact that 31% of adolescents on the autism spectrum are clinically obese right now. So certainly that is demonstrative of yeah of something uh that should not be going on that's going on.

Yeah. How does that obesity rate compare to just the general public? Do we know that?

Um I believe the current obesity rate in neurotypical adolescents is somewhere uh between, I don't have the statistic in front of me, but I think it's somewhere between 17 and 23 percent.

Okay, so it's higher. Uh now excuse my ignorance on this, but g I I if I'm listening, I'm a finished pro, and probably most people don't ask this question, they just kind of assume. But what is the spectrum? What does that mean?

Sure. So the autism spectrum, because we see such a difference in ability levels and in symptoms uh within autism, so we have individuals who are very high functioning who might have some social abnormalities but can really uh be generalized or mainstreamed with uh neurotypical and normally functioning individuals. And then we have the severe end of the spectrum where we get a uh co-diagnoses of severe cognitive impairment also. And usually towards the lower end is where we see uh individuals who can be uh self-injurious or aggressive or have very limited uh productive verbal skills. We get our non-verbal individuals, we get our individuals who have a lot of difficulty uh following if-then contingencies. So uh far more deficits, and we see uh significant motor deficits, at least in my experience, across the spectrum as well. But even between the extremes of uh very low functioning or very high functioning, we have our you know mid-range or slightly higher functioning individuals, and especially for adolescents and teenagers who we would say, well, you know, they definitely have an autism diagnosis, but they can still interact and they can um they can still form uh meaningful relationships, they often have the most difficult time because they don't quite fit in with the the lower functioning individuals, but they have a lot of difficulty socializing with higher functioning individuals and following um what we take for granted as as social norms and nuance and things that are intuitive. So that's the deficit there. And the way I describe it as is for all of us, uh cognitively and and socially and emotionally, all of our skill sets, and this can go into physical as well, all of our skill sets are not on, they're not on-off switches. We we're all uh a combination of dimmer switches. And so for you and I who um you know presumptively our social skills are relatively high, we can say, okay, our social skills are probably operating between an eight and a ten on that dimmer switch because it was set at eight when when we were young, and because of good parenting and good socialization, we're we're able to maintain and enhance those skills for the autism population. For some individuals, we're talking about socialization starting at like a zero or a one. So on that dimmer switch, it's existent, and they may, it's it's not a question of whether or not they want to socialize, more as the skill set just isn't there yet. So it's something that we have to plan for. The same way you or I would have to learn math or or any other educational skill because it's it's not innate, is the same way individuals on the autism spectrum have to learn socialization.

Yeah. Interesting. So it sounds like it can people on the spectrum can they move around on the spectrum over their lifetime?

Or is that a really good question. It's it's interesting because we don't know what the uh what the ceiling is for skill development. So I haven't known any individuals to move from like mid-range functioning to higher functioning necessarily, but certainly the skills that are deficits, um we uh we can enhance those uh a lot. And what I've learned most is that we can never presume that there is uh there is a specific end range. We're all gonna have end ranges to our skills, you know. It's it's a question of the limit the specific limitations being fuzzy or gray rather than there being unlimited potential. Because we talk about unlimited potential, and that's what does that mean? But when we say, well, this individual can't actually make friends, we just have to facilitate that. And I've seen even in in low-functioning individuals with whom I've worked for for years, when those skill sets are focused on and when it's approached in a in uh a meaningful strategic way, yes, they can have socially meaningful relationships.

So it sounds like a lot of it too, you know, from what I'm gathering, is that the assessment of the individual is extremely important. Is that correct? Yeah. So talk to us about um, I know you spent a lot of time you develop a system for this, especially within your um within your you know scope of practice. So yeah, give us give us some insight into I believe if you call it it's the pack profile system. Tell us about that.

So what I found was certainly there was no specific right. This actually came, so I went to an FMS training uh well over a decade ago. And what I realized coming out of that, I said, this is a the the screen has a lot of value, but I can't even get most of my athletes to go through the the activities in the screen are are too um too complex for a lot of my athletes. So number one, I need something that is more specific to the average skill set of my athletes. And the second part is what I don't need is I don't need a screen, I need an assessment. And the the the differences between a screen and an assessment, a screen you want as limited pre-teaching as possible because you don't want someone to try to, even if they aren't uh, even if they aren't aware of it, trying to game the system as and do as best they can with an assessment, you know, go as many times as possible. I just want to see you know your best current performance of that particular uh skill set. What I also realized was that the physical or the movement aspect when working with the autism population was not the only component. So if you have someone from general population or you have a sports-specific athlete, they will most likely go through whatever screen or go through ever uh any assessment that you give them. They're gonna be nervous or or they might have their reservations, but they're gonna be motivated enough or at least cooperative enough, uh cooperative enough that they're gonna go through it. That is not always the case with our autism population. So I thought, what are the what are the most important factors when working with this population and actually getting uh data that's going to be relevant? So I thought, yeah, there's the physical component of these the exercises and to whatever degree they can do them, but then you have the adaptive component, which is really important with this population, and that simply asks how motivated are they to perform this particular exercise in this particular situation? Do we have to incentivize it somehow? Do we have to add a break? How many repetitions of a medicine ball push throw will they do before they wander off because they're getting off task? And so that's the A in the PAC profile. And then we have the cognitive component, which is we're not just looking at low functioning or high functioning because that doesn't tell us a lot with respect to how we're going to teach something. So we're looking at how best do they learn this particular activity. So can I mirror it for them? Can I raise my arms up overhead and then they'll mirror me in an overhead press? Or do I actually have to get involved and perform a physical prompt and guide their elbows and their arms through the overhead press and then fade back? So the goal for any of this, for any skill set with anybody is always independent mastery. You want them to be able to do it on their own, with you providing minimal coaching and queuing, and then you want them to generalize it to new and novel situations. I mean, that's the fundamental basis of why we engage in fitness and physical activity, unless we're talking about sport-specific training, right? So I thought these are the three fundamental areas of ability that we have to account for when working with this population, because if we're not using the right progression or regression, particularly regression, of a physical activity, they're either not going to be able to do it or there's going to be a lot of compensation. And with this population, you have a lot of strength deficits, a lot of stability deficits, a lot of motor planning deficits. So that's that's going to be a factor in your exercise selection. From an adaptive perspective, if you have low motivation to perform a squat, for example, we're not just going to eliminate it and say, well, they don't want to do it right now, so they don't have to do it. We want to incorporate it somehow, but we have to incentivize it in order to get them uh initially to be cooperative, uh cooperative or compliant with that situation. And eventually what happens is they start enjoying it. So it might become reinforcing for them. And then from the cognitive perspective, we're all we're all familiar with uh coaching and queuing. In this case, it has to be very strategic and there has to be a plan for fading that coaching queue because I don't want to be physically prompting my athlete through an overhead press for the next three to five years. I don't. I want to be able to fade myself back and have them do it independently so I can grab my iPhone and film them doing it and then throw it on Facebook. So my goal, our our goal as coaches is always to be uh to make ourselves unneeded in in that particular exercise situation so that we can move on to uh to more complex stuff. So that's the same thing that I'm doing with my athletes.

Awesome. And that's so it's the pack system, so physical, adaptive, content.

Yep, yeah. And if all three of those accounted for, good things are gonna happen. And if something's gone off a little bit, I usually refer to it as the wheels falling off. We examine what's going on. Is it that the exercise is too challenging? Is it that uh the individual isn't sufficiently motivated, or is it that my coaching and queuing is not um is not sufficient for their learning style with that particular activity?

Yeah. You know, the the first thought that pops in my head when I hear you talking about the pack system is that I mean, I imagine if you learn all this and you get good at it, you know, or are competent with dealing with um, you know, special needs and autism specifically in this case, that all the other clients will benefit, right? Yeah, yeah.

Well, I've had I've had people come up to me after seminars or presentations and they'll kind of pull me inside and said, you know, this but this works with general population too. I had probably the best, one of the best quotes this year came from I I just got back from St. Petersburg, Florida, doing um my level, uh the level one autism fitness certification. And one of the participants there said, you know, going through all of the maladapted behavior stuff, you're just putting together some of the worst traits of my general population clients. I said, Yeah, it's all it it's all I was laughing. I said, it's all human behavior, right? It's all human movement. What's beautiful about it is that we're still looking at human movement and we're still looking at human behavior. It's a little more nuanced. We have to dial into it a little bit more. Now that's not to say that somebody should be just entering into this world with no training and no understanding and not a deep appreciation for uh how nuanced and challenging this can be. I'm not saying that every trainer um has the capacity to work with this population, but the those who do realize, I think, relatively quickly that this is applicable to many different athletes and populations.

So let's talk about that. What makes a, you know, if can you identify what makes a competent coach or you know, or trainer within this this specific sphere? Like what do you look for for that? Is it you know, is there certain qualities that make a good coach? Is it experience?

Yeah, I I think uh the ability to just kind of go with it. And and and not not not to question how weird something is, but just to question, well, what is the function of this right now? And there's a certain amount of empathy that goes along with it. Not empathy so much as, oh, everything's okay because everybody's different, but empathy in that you understand someone may not be understanding the way you're coaching something right now, and and the ability also to um to hold off on on ego too, because it's not about it's not about what I can do. I I mentioned in uh this past weekend during the certification seminar also, that one of the great things about being the the founder of autism fitness, uh, it's kind of being the anti-celebrity trainer in that if I'm working with a new athlete, they don't care that I'm the founder of Autism Fitness. They don't care that I'm certifying people around the world. They don't care at all. Yeah. Uh so I have to approach each one of my athletes on a daily basis, bringing them the best possible situation, creating the best possible environment for them, because my reputation means absolutely nothing to them.

Yeah, yeah.

And that and that'll keep you free of your ego getting in the way of your training and coaching, because that means it has to be effective.

Yeah, yeah. Um, in some ways it it it might might be liberating to.

Oh yeah.

Right.

Yeah, it's just guess it get this right. Yeah, do what works because it may be the case with my athletes. You know, I don't I don't do six to eight week uh transformation programs. It's we're looking at this as lifeline. Don't do beach, you know, I don't do beach abs for the autism population. All right, let's see, let's see if we can progress this overhead press or this squat or this band row a little bit over the next six to eight weeks. So I don't have a specific time frame for, you know, I'll tweak something or I'll I'll change a uh a prompt if it doesn't seem to be working effectively, but I don't have a very specific timeline for uh goals and outcomes because I just don't know what it's gonna look like all the time.

Yeah, and I I mean I'm just putting myself in your shoes. I'm sure there's you know incredible amount of challenges of working with this population, but also I think like, God, how many times, you know, have I given someone this the straight talk of like, you know, this isn't about a six-week challenge and and how many inches about your life? And they're like, okay, cool, thanks for the talk. I'm going next door, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And that happens all the time within this business.

Yeah. And we we have to measure that. You know, I'm I'm fortunate in that I have um the the parents who I work with who um whose sons and daughters I work with of any age, I I think the expectations they vary a lot, but oh uh but I think what every parent or every client wants is they want to know that their um their their child, again, could be an adult child also, uh, are safe and that there is something going on in that room that's going to be beneficial for them. Because you think about general population and their attitudes or their expectations of what exercise can be, even with you know, myths that we thought we wouldn't have to deal with anymore, like strength training for females and getting bulky and all of this stuff still persists, also. So I think sometimes that my friends and colleagues in the strength and conditioning world who are working with general population have it even more difficult than I do, because I don't have to convince someone that um that squatting with an eight or ten-pound sandbell is going to get their uh you know, female child bulky. Like that's the last thing that that they're concerned of. So there's uh there are certainly things that I have to demystify, but nothing to that effect. They they just want to know that something good, something good is happening. And what's cool about that is I can show them the possibilities that they may initially have have thought that we can go way beyond that.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome, Eric. So you mentioned your certification process. Give me give us the give the fitness community a little idea of how that works if they want to start looking into it.

Yeah, definitely. So the autism fitness uh certification we launched uh last year. It'll uh in May, it'll actually be a year since we did the first one here uh in the in the thank you in the New York area. And so now we offer that um throughout the country. We did one in Toronto also, so we can say we're international, but throughout the country um we're offering the level one certification. So when people register for the level one certification, they uh get access to the autism fitness toolbox, they get access to uh the level one guide and manual, and uh they get uh access to the two-day level one certification event, which is two full days of both uh conceptual and and hands-on training, and then after that they have to uh complete the level one exam with 96 uh 90 percent or better, and then the practitioners that we have get listed on the autism fitness website, and those are the people that I want to promote because I get emails every day from people all over the world, um like everywhere. I don't think there's a continent uh I've that that uh from which I haven't had an email about do you have a program here? So me working with my 15, 16 athletes here in the New York area, you know, I'm I'm booked. So what we need are more people and I'm I'm not only um not only sure, I'm absolutely convinced that there are other practitioners out there who can bring this work to the autism population. So now the goal is to meet the needs of every individual on the autism spectrum with a uh certified uh autism fitness practitioner.

Yeah, that's awesome, man. So certainly there's demand, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Uh how do if you know, how do people get started? You know, I how how do they know? I'm just thinking, if I, you know, if I'm a fitness professional, I'm like, oh, it sounds kind of interesting. How how do I know if this is for me, right?

Sure. Good question. I would go through um our the the best way is to go through I think our our YouTube channel and just see what it looks like because I can spend entire articles describing what autism is like, but go through, you know, uh it's called the autism fitness on YouTube. Go through some of my videos and see what it actually looks like. I I do not I'm not in the business of uh again candy coating this for people. I'm not in the business of saying everybody in the pool, everybody should be doing this. It's an important population. No, I I recognize that there are certain practitioners and professionals who are going to have an interest in this and certain and many more who are not, and that's absolutely fine. But I want the ones who are, and I want the ones who are to be well trained and to have the confidence of knowing that they have a that they're going to be able to do this if they have uh the the right training and if they're following through consistently also. So um I would say anybody interested in this should look at uh definitely look at the YouTube page and then even you know volunteer or do an observation day at uh if they can at a behavior therapy clinic or um you know at a at a local uh autism school, something like that, even volunteer at um at a local uh autism organization for a couple weekends. And if they feel uh comfortable and confident that this is something that they would want to pursue, then I would definitely get involved with the certification.

Awesome. And I'll uh I'll post some of those videos too in our in our closed Facebook group. It's the Modern Fitness Pro. And and you know, get some information out there as well. So uh it's autismfitness.com. Is that correct? Cool. And uh and they can find you on social media as well.

Yeah, uh find me Eric Jesson, or you can find uh Autism Fitness on on Facebook. Uh I'm around. Uh I'm available. Uh uh if you email me, Eric, at autismfitness.com. I usually have a uh 48-hour response policy because I just want to clear out my in my inbox. But if people go to autismfitness.com, they can also sign up for the free newsletter and we send out all the updates uh about the certification, where it's gonna be next, uh, what we have going on this year. What we're also doing for our level one certs is with continuing education, we're gonna do a quarterly webinar and answer everybody's questions about business development and about how to structure your programs and everything else that they need in order to be successful. Because once people uh are are part of the level one certification, what we want them to do is take this work and and and build their business as much as they can on it, too, because there's certainly uh a shortage of of people right now uh who are able to meet the needs of this population.

Yeah, awesome. Well, Eric, thank you for um obviously thank you for taking the time and coming on and and telling us all about you know the work you're doing and and what it looks like. And uh and just thank you for doing the work. You know, this is uh it's great.

I'm glad that, you know, uh I always say, you know, true, true entrepreneurs within the industry see a problem and then take responsibility for it and and move forward. So uh that's absolutely what you're doing and I appreciate it. I'm happy to do it. Thank you for the acknowledgement, Eric.

Yeah, you're welcome. So I know you and I will be talking soon, but uh that's it for this episode. This is Eric Cheston from Autism Fitness, and thanks for listening, guys.

Thank you.

Hey Fitness fans, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I want to personally thank you for your support and listening to the Future of Fitness podcast and interview series. If you have a few minutes, I would greatly appreciate it if you went to iTunes and gave us a favorable rating. Uh, as well as go to our YouTube channel and subscribe there. That'd be fantastic. If you know of anybody who'd be a great fit for the show as a guest, please hit me up at Eric at fitnessmarketingalliance.com. That's Eric with the C. Also, I have three questions for you. Number one, are you a fitness professional who's been in the industry for over seven years? Question number two, do you have an online revenue stream or multiple online revenue streams? Question number three, are you ready to break loose from your local market and take advantage of all of the opportunity out there in the online world? If you are, I want you to go to fitnessmarketingalliance.com forward slash mastermind. This will lead you to our level up mastermind group and all the information that you need to know. This is a group for high-level thinkers within the industry who are ready to break free. So go check it out. It's fitnessmarketingalliance.com forward slash mastermind. Let us know if you have any questions. Thank you again for listening. I greatly appreciate your support. We'll keep it up from our end as well.