Trent Ward - FORME Life & Connecting Effort to Outcomes

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over two years and running. It is 2021, and I am your host, Eric Malzone. I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. When you do what you love, running, racing, or simply enjoying the great outdoors, you want to do it for life. Insight Tracker can help. Insight Tracker was founded in 2009 by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics. Using their patented algorithm, Insight Tracker analyzes your body's data to provide you with a clear picture of what's going on inside you while offering highly personalized, science-backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes. Okay, time for straight talk. It's time that each single one of us takes responsibility for our own health. Personally, given the results of my Insight Tracker DNA and blood tests, I now have a clear and simple game plan to lower my cholesterol and stave off my family's genetic history of heart disease. The best part is that the plan doesn't include any kind of pharmaceuticals, just personalized nutrition and natural supplementation. Possibly my favorite feature of Insight Tracker is the inner age score, a singular metric that shows me how my biological age compares to my chronological age. They just gamify longevity. It's crazy cool. For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire Inside Tracker store. Just go to InsightTracker.com forward slash future. But wait, there is more. If you're a coach, trainer, registered dietitian, or any other health and wellness practitioner, you can now leverage Inside Tracker services to help your clients perform better than they ever have. And you can offer them discounts while you earn revenue. InsightTracker Pro is your gateway to offering your clients Inside Tracker, the science-backed, ultra-personalized performance platform trusted by elite athletes and top coaches. Just go to insight tracker.com forward slash future to get more information and enjoy deep, deep discounts. That is insight tracker.com forward slash future. Kids deserve our best. Period. Full stop. Brand X has dedicated themselves to doing what is best for kids for over two decades. Here's the facts. All major pediatric organizations agree that youth strength and conditioning and fitness programs must be specifically designed for children and coached by those specifically educated in working with children. This seems like a no-brainer. Successful programs come from educated coaches who have all the tools to best serve the youth. Brand X offers unequaled ongoing support through ever-growing relative content delivered monthly, plus the mountains of information leveraging their 20 plus years of experience. As the developers of the original kids' functional fitness program and certification with over 100 state and national record holders and recognize the world's leaders in youth fitness, Brand X not only offers the fully digital, take it-your-own pace, professional youth coaches certification, but has recently added to their suite of custom education products to best serve educators and parents as well. Because kids deserve our best. So whether you are a gym owner, coach, educator, parent, or simply anyone who cares for the future of our children, Brand X is offering a 20% discount on all digital education products for a limited time. Go visit the BrandXmethod.com forward slash future to get your code today. Again, that is the brandxmethod.com forward slash future and claim your code. We are live. Trent Ward, welcome to the future of fitness, man. Thanks, Eric.

Great to be here.

Yeah, pleasure to have you. Um coming from uh beautiful, sunny Los Angeles. I was asking you how the weather was. He just points out the window, like exactly as expected, man. Um so it's a pleasure to have you. You are the CEO and founder, a co-founder of Form Life.

Um we have a founding team. Um yeah, I started everything back in in 2016, um, and then you know, had some great talented people join us along the way.

Awesome. Um, okay, so my first line of questioning, then we'll we'll get into a little bit more. But 2016, you had a vision for a connected fitness device? Is that how this started? But how how did okay, back up? How did you get to 2016? What led to that point? And then we'll get into the the evolution and creation of form.

Uh, you know, I had um I spent a lot of years in finance. I worked at a bank, I worked at a big hedge fund, um everything that you would expect from that lifestyle, right? You know, long hours, stress, et cetera. Um, and I was uh I ended up pursuing kind of an entrepreneurial path and um working even harder, which is what happens when you work for yourself. Uh and the the the thing that, you know, the thing that that went away uh kind of most quickly was was working out, right? I didn't have a routine, I wasn't leaving the house. Um and I started seeing a trainer at home. Um and that really the the ability to to leave my desk, work out, and go back to my desk, you know, it was just easier to fit into my life. Um and also have a you know have a professional there that was doing the thinking for me and letting me be a participant in that and not have to manage everything. Um so it became um it just became obvious that at home fits into a busy life. Didn't mean I didn't go do other things um with my girlfriend or whatnot, but um I just you know as a kind of core fitness offering for me, I I needed something at home. And when I started to to look into that, I said, you know, I was like, well, I'm I have all this equipment. I was and I look I was fortunate that I I um I had some time because I was single, largely no kids, and um and I could have equipment in the house, right? I could have weights everywhere and it was sort of fine. Um but I realized I didn't have any measurement, um, it took up a lot of space, you know, there I figured that there should be a better way. Um that's when I started uh trying to make a digital weight machine for home.

Awesome, man. And how how did it start? Were you just you had a concept, you grabbed a napkin and a pen, and you started jotting down some ideas, or what um what spore the technical innovation here?

Um, you know, I tried to hey, how do you get resistance without gravity? Right? You know, everything else is largely gravity. There was I knew there was pneumatic, you know, I knew what a Kaiser was. I had seen some of the other stuff in the industry. Um, you know, there are magnets and electricity. Um, there's there's springs, like the Kinesis system has springs in it. Like, you know, there's kind of varying other ways of getting you know mechanical force. Um and I uh I actually called some um I called a friend of mine from the engineering program I had been in as an undergrad, and he had some guys that were moonlighting for him from NASA. Um they obviously don't have gravity either, uh, and said, Hey, how do I do this? Um, and started, you know, and to be honest, it's it's not a particularly complex problem, right? I mean, you know, mechanical engineering's been around for a long time. We're not talking about quantum computing. Um, so this is largely um, you know, creating force just like you do with a uh an electric car, right? You know, electricity turning into mechanical force. And so they we sort of settled on that being the right answer. Um, you know, my my early drawings, which is you know, on a napkin, was largely a box on a wall with two arms, um, you know, not just similar to dissimilar things out there. Um it it's obvious. It's what you know, um, and I actually had bought a um I bought a a uh free motion cable, dual arm cable machine, took the weights out, put a motor in the back, and that was my first prototype. Um and you know it was really when I met uh my partner Eve, who's you know, world-famous industrial designer. Um he had the idea to put a mirror on it. Um both because the importance of being able to see your form, but also having it fit into your home. Right. And so kind of a combination of the two of us had a very, I'd say, utilitarian view of uh and functional perspective on how this works, and he had a very kind of aesthetically driven um perspective, and we married the two into into what form is.

So where did you guys settle? You mentioned uh uh an engine or a motor. Uh, where did you guys settle upon like the the form of resistance? What how do you guys producing resistance?

Yeah, it's an electric motor. Um, you know, so it's to be honest, it's it's not dissimilar to an electric bike or an electric car. Um it just and it's it's you know, use computer software, an algorithm to mimic what a user would feel um as if it were a weight stack. Um you can control, you know, you can tune it however you like. Um less momentum um makes it feel a little heavier. Um but you know this is at the end of the day just uh an algorithm on top of a motor. Not to make it sound too simple, but you know, um I think to to develop a good product, you need in this category, you need a lot of things, right? You know talent, content, software, hardware, you know, the motor and the drive here um is frankly a repurposing of of things that have around a long time. It's not that um groundbreaking. I think the application is, um, but at the end of the day, this is you know, these are off-the-shelf parts um that are kind of put together differently.

Um so Trent, you mentioned that the application is somewhat remarkable or groundbreaking, right? So walk me through that thought. Like with all these things that kind of exist, you know, not to lab, but say it's like you know, off-the-shelf type technology, right? Where you could take it and piece it together and put it into this application. What what made this groundbreaking in your mind and what really said, okay, in your mind, like this this is something we really need to pursue and see all the way through because there's something here.

You know, frankly, when when Eve when I met Eve uh and he he said he wanted to be involved, that was that was before it was an idea and it was kind of a fun project I was doing on the side and and everything. But you know, Eve's been uh involved in hundreds of of successful products and and he's seen a lot of things and um and he's a you know he's a visionary. And when he said that this this was very interesting to him, and it's something he wanted to do, um it really gave me the confidence that it wasn't just me. Um, you know, that kind of way it and to be honest, for a while I was happy to to play around with this as a device, you know, even if it wasn't commercial, it was kind of interesting to me, and it was something that I was gonna use, and I was very much making it for for my use case. Um and I I saw the I think from a business model perspective, you know, you started to see Peloton start to work, and it and it kind of opened my eyes to how to make these sustainable businesses. Um, and then the confidence that it wasn't a stupid idea because Eve said, no, no, I think this is this is interesting and I'm gonna um I'm gonna get involved, is sort of a combination of those things, right? And you need you need a lot of people to make these things successful and and you need encouragement and uh sort of a combination of all of that, you know. Um can't do it by yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. So you you started working with Eve, you I presume you came up with some sort of prototype, right? Um then at that point. I mean, this is not a I mean there it takes cash to to build a company like this, right? So did you guys, when did you start seeking out investment? What did that what did that experience, you know, pitching, was that new to you? Um how did you go about that process?

It was probably the area I knew best, frankly. Um, you know, I I come from that world. Um I had raised money before. Uh uh, you know, I'd been a professional investor. Um, and so you know speaking the same language to um to the investors was easy. Um uh you know, I I funded the business for myself for the first year, probably. Um and I think once Eve got involved, I started to raise some outside capital. Um I had a proof point. I had someone of of substance and experience say this is interesting. Um and so you know, we did we end up doing a seed round in 2018. Um uh and then just continued, right? And so, you know, at this point I've raised um, you know, it's getting close to $100 million. Um, you know, I think slightly different than a lot of other things, a lot of other companies in the space, because without you need you need a lot of capital to make these things. Um, we've done it all with individuals. Um, you know, we don't have any institutions involved. Um, you know, all these people uh obviously are interested in the products, um, but have long-term vision and and you know have a lot of uh I'd say optimism about what we can accomplish. Um so it again couldn't have done it by myself, um, lots of friends and family, and then you know, a circle uh away from that as well.

Yeah. Awesome, man. And and fast forward to today. So you launched, let's see, what is today? Uh uh August 17th, 2021. Um so you launched about a year ago. Uh so that was in the middle of a pandemic, right? Uh you started this thing in 2016. I'm just going over this timeline in my head for people listening. Uh, so there's a period of innovation, gain the proc ready, you launched four years later, pandemic, and all of a sudden the market kind of came towards connected fitness. Like the market just steered right into where you were, right? Um, walk me through like those moments in time. Like, were you recognizing that this was okay, this is opportunity has now grown a hundred X from what we thought it would be, or did you see that this was like, you know, well, this is gonna this type of exposure, this type of market was coming to us anyway, and this just quickened the pace. What what were what was going through your head during that time around the launch?

Definitely the latter, right? This this was the COVID caused an acceleration in a trend that was happening. Um and you know, I um I I don't you know, there's uh a lot of people say, well, people go back to the gyms or not go back to the gyms. And when I conceived the product and and thought it was kind of worth dedicating my life to it, I didn't base it on the view of preference. Um, right? For me, the first principle here was time. And really that at the end of the day, we're all getting busier, we don't have a lot of time, and fitness is one of those things that's easy to push out of the way. Um, you know, it's it's like insurance, it's like health, it's easy to ignore because there's no short-term signal saying, you know, this is bad. It's only a long-term cumulative thing. Um, and so, you know, it is easy to ignore, um, especially when you get busy and and busy for you know what happens to everyone, get married, have kids, you know, jobs, whatnot. You know, you can sort of all walks of life. Um and you know, that's something that I experienced, and I sort of assume everyone is experiencing that, and that that was kind of the real driver. Uh, you know, at home fitness is not new, right? It's it's always been here, and it's always been more convenient and more affordable, but it always lacked the engagement that you got when you went and saw other people or did other things out of the real world. The digitization of this and streaming technology and the ability to get new content um all the time all of a sudden elevated that to not a much better experience. And and so that's really what we were leaning into. Um, and if you look at you know the work from home thing and online shopping, all of those digitization trends that took a step change during COVID, right? It was just an acceleration. Fitness was slower, um, partly because of the physicality of it, of equipment, of space, of this, of hey, it's just how the industry was. There was no reason to change it. Um you know, and I and look, I don't think the physical gym or boutique industry is going away. Like it's much bigger than connected hardware. We're gonna have both. And you know, the one thing I think that's really come out of the pandemic so far, you know, we'll see if it persists, is do I you know, should we do this on Zoom or are we gonna do it in person, right? There's a there's a demarcation of am I moving or am I not? And that they both exist and they both should continue to exist because they're two different tools. And I think at home fitness and going to boutiques or doing things outside or all this other stuff is gonna persist too. And that hybridization is how I've always thought of the world. Um, is look, my my personal schedule is I like to work out on my schedule as efficiently as possible during the week when I'm busy. And on the weekend, I'm trying to do something with a friend or my wife. Um, and and you know, I'm optimizing something different. Um, and and that to me is realistic and sustainable and enjoyable and accomplishes all the goals, and it's not all one or the other. Um, and so I've always thought form and what we're doing is how to fit into your life, not replace other things, but really just kind of help you optimize.

Yeah. You made a really good point in there, Trent. And it's uh, you know, home fitness has been around for a long time. I mean, I remember growing up in the 80s and 90s, and my dad had like a mini trampoline, right? And one of those like old hydraulic rowers and Jane Fonda videos and short shorts, it was traumatizing, really. Um, but it was it's been around for a long. Jack Lane was doing like live stuff in in the San Francisco Bay, right? On on the news channel in the evening. So there's there's been um it has been around. I I didn't really kind of consider it in that point of view, and that's that's a really important thing. It just keeps evolving. You know, one of the questions I want to ask, well, let's go back because people may be wondering exactly like what is form, right? Let's kind of talk about what makes it different in the market. And we will get a differentiation. I'm sure it's one of your favorite topics that you get asked all the time. Sure.

No, no, um look form. Um I think you will see form as a three-product company. Um, and you know, two of those are hardware and one of those is is is kind of service or content. And um, you know, I think they're all products that are helping people get healthy, right? Stay healthy, be stronger, um, you know, and really fit fitness into their life and high quality fitness. Um one product which is currently you know installed in consumers' homes right now is is our studio. Um that is um you know a mirror device. It's a it's similar to mirror, it's a it's um uh a tablet, but effectively it's a big iPhone. You know, there's lots of ways people call it, but you know, this device has a 43 uh inch 4K display touch screen that plays great content and streams and updates and kind of as you would expect, you know, kind of what an iPad-ish would be. You know, um the second hardware product is the is what we refer to as the the Studio Lift, um, and that is the same screen paired with um digital weight machine, you know, which is a dual-arm cable machine in effect. Modular, you can upgrade from one to the other. Um but and they kind of snap together in the home pretty easily. Um that's the second one. Again, I think it's that's for people that are interested in weight training. Um, you know, not that you can't do dumbbells and and bands and other things with the studio, but you know, it's kind of a a more um uh more complete way of training. Um and then the third product, uh, which we're gonna talk a lot more about this fall, um, really is live one to one training. Um You know, and I think it's it's uh you know, frankly, I'm really excited about that business. Um, I think that we can help a lot of people on both sides of the screen, the trainers and the clients. Um, you know, and that's a business that largely came out of COVID, right? I don't think it was possible to do that before COVID. I think there's a lot of, you know, hey, we we do personal training in this gym, in this location. And when you were forced to do it over Zoom or or any other kind of communication, digital communication, you realize actually you could do it this way. Um, and when you think about um, you know, trainers that want to live where they want to live and don't want to be kind of tied to a physical location, um, it's great for trainers that are um trying to train in different time zones and sort of compress their day, you know, because like the the starting at 5 a.m., having some clients, waiting, getting the lunch shift, waiting, getting the evening shift. It's a tough life.

I mean, and it's a tough life, man.

And it's kind of that. And and the gym takes a big cut of that revenue, and then there's the well, okay, maybe I'll do my my one-to-one gym, or maybe I'll travel around. None of those are optimal, they're all really challenging. And you know, what I've found talking to really talented trainers is they just want to coach and they want to help people, and they don't really want to run the business part and they don't want to do this other stuff. And so I think we have the ability to deliver that in the highest fidelity way.

Um, you know, all the equipment's built into the machine, there's your coach, um, and it's more convenient for everyone.

Um, so again, I think you you will see um some, I'd say best in class hardware and content married together in effectively a personal training service. Um, whether that's all virtual and all on demand, or whether that's live one-to-one, it it's kind of it's different price points and different use cases. But I think at the end of the day, you know, we are a solution for people that are looking to stay fit, get stronger, you know, whatever goals are.

Yeah, that's great. I I want to, when we have, if we have time towards the end, I want to get back to that live 101 training thing because I think it's really interesting. I think a lot of people who are who are in the profession are like, all right, cool. Now there's something I can harness, right? Um because most of the time they just see it as competition, everyone's worried about getting run over in the industry, you know, AI taking over the world, all that, right? Uh I still want a human, not gonna lie. Yeah, me too.

I mean, like, you know, I and sometimes and and you know the other thing is if you're consuming look, a AI is great, technology is great, it it brings things to people that couldn't have afforded it previously. Um but if you're if you've it's interesting, not a lot of people have worked with a personal trainer, but once you have, you realize there's really no going back and and the value is there. Um but it's harder on the outside looking in, um, I think until you actually experience it. And that's a relationship that I think is important, and I want to I want to help uh help continue that and for and expand it for people, right? As opposed to try to replace them.

Yeah, yeah, good screen, man. So um let's get back to differentiation. And I know uh I've you know prepped by kind of going over some interviews you've done in the past or recently. And it's it I can I can't go without asking. I mean, now you got so many different players in the connective fitness industry. How do you guys look at the market as far as competition with you know the the mirrors and the pelotons and the the tonals? And um, you know, there seems to be I've interviewed other ones that are popping up now, kind of all over the place. Um how do you see it? Do you see it as competition? If so, how do you differentiate? Or are you trying to just kind of understand the market is big enough for everybody and just forging your own path? How do you how do you take that on with uh with a market that's so competitive right now?

To be honest, I'm I'm I think it's great that there's so many of us that are doing this and and it's not a winner-take-all market. Um and you know, the more people that are I'd say helping people, the better. Um so I'm I'm pretty sanguine about competition. Um I am a competitive person, but uh um, you know, I think I think we have different parts of the market, and there's different things for for for different people. Um you know, this isn't um if you know this isn't a really a network effect type business. There are some aspects that are largely more around scale. Um uh you know, Peloton will come out with some strength stuff from what they say. Um and if you're in the Peloton ecosystem and you want to maintain being in there, that's great, right? And um I think you know, mirror is well known, spent a lot of money in marketing. It's a good solution for quite a few people. Um, you know, for me, I think what we're doing is different. Um and and same with tonal, right? You know, um, and and I can go through the differences. Um, I think the most um the most consistent difference really is we're just kind of the the the premium version of a lot of these things. Um, you know, I think we care a little more about design and we care a little more about some of the things that we do. You know, it our choices on the technology, and um, you know, I I just think we're thinking about things in a different way. Um and and look, that's 4K resolution, which doesn't necessarily mean a lot to people, but when you're in Best Buy and you look at two TVs, there's kind of the one that looks new and the one that looks old. That's sort of the difference between you know our resolution and and kind of the competition, I think. You know, it's an it's kind of a night and day thing in person. It interestingly, you can't really pick it up on digital because you're looking at a screen that makes the resolution look the same in both of them, right? Because you know, so but in person it makes a big difference, right? And um I I like having a touch screen. I expect everything to be a touch screen right now. Mirror doesn't, right? And they'll tell you that you shouldn't put your fingers on a mirror. I like to put my phone away when I'm working out. I'm there to take a break, I'm there for that experience, right? I don't want to be controlling it with a with a phone. It's not it's not right or wrong. Um, you know, I think they have a great solution for a lot of people and and and they have a lot of happy customers, it seems like. Um, but it's not what I would do, you know. And we have a we have a ballet bar that snaps on the front. You know what, you can hold on to a chair if you don't, you know, but I'd rather do it in a more thoughtful way, a more compelling way. Um, you know, so there's things like that. Um I think on the on you know the tonal side, uh, you know, I think when it comes to sort of digital weights, and the two of us are the only two people that have products out there. Um it's harder to do, it's more expensive. Um they obviously you know raised money really quickly and started earlier and got out there first. Um I think they've done a um a good job of educating the consumer on sort of what's out there. Um, and they have a lot of very happy customers. Um that being said, you know, in 2019 they sold 3,000 units and 2020 they sold 25,000. Like it's it, it's it's not that many, right? Like it's you know, Peloton sold a million units. Um, so we're just this market will take a long time to develop, and there will be more than one player, and you know, it's like having competition is good, it's validation, um, it's good for consumers, um uh, you know, different different approaches, right? I mean, for and you know, I think if you look at the content, you'll see some differences. Um I'm trying to make the most lifelike experience, right? That I want a big screen, I want a 43-inch screen, I don't want a 24-inch screen, I want it 4K, I want it to feel like that person's there. We had to make choices to to do that. Um that doesn't mean it's the only answer. So I I think it's great to have all of these people around um uh you know, tempos out there. Um again, that's not it's probably not the right fit for me. I I um I've spent a lot of time in my life lifting weights and training and being coached, and so you know having a computer tell me that is not as as important to me. Um, but I can see why it's compelling to other people and you know, no install, you know, because you can just it's a piece of furniture. So I think everyone kind of has their own thing. Um, and I think everyone's gonna be successful. Um, you know, there's there's a number of other players that are trying to get to market, and I and I do think capital is a big barrier here, right? And you know, if you sort of look at us and so the other ones we just talked about, they've all raised hundred to hundreds of millions of dollars. And I think the ones that kind of haven't gotten there are are you know facing a capital um challenge um to get there and and you can't fake it. Like you either you either raise the capital or you have it, because this stuff is hard to do and it takes a lot of people. I mean, we have over a hundred employees right now, of which you know almost half of them are engineers. It just it's a lot of bodies. Higher paid bodies.

Yeah, yeah, right. And you employ people in Montana. So thank you for that as well. Uh yeah, that's interesting, man. I'm curious. So, you know, being a premium product, uh, how does the consumer price point change? I I looked at some of the monthly plans you guys have, but how does that compare to to some of the competition as well?

Uh so you know, this is the this is the thing. This is a um uh I think largely if you look at the demographic of people who are doing connected fitness, um, because it's because the the main reason that a lot of people came to it was sort of this lack of time concept. Um I think pre-pandemic, right? That's the pandemic, obviously there were some reactionary, you know, um uh purchases, but the lack of time comes from getting married, you know, having a job, whether you're commuting or or just sitting at a desk either way, um, and and trading your time for space, right? Like, you know, you move out of the city, things aren't as convenient, it takes longer to do things, but you have more space. And that comes with being largely middle-age. Um I think when you're and you know, if you're married and you're and and you're in your 40s, 80, more than 80% of you own a home. As a homeowner, uh at someone kind of at that um level of income, usually you all of these things cost the same amount, right? The difference between 150 bucks at tunnel and 165 for us, or 82 at mirror and 109 for us, it doesn't matter. And the thing about, you know, people that work out like they're investors, they it is investor mentality. I'm taking some paint now for future gain. It it they spend a lot of time doing it and they want quality products and quality experiences. It's very disappointing to go try a boutique fitness class and have it not be good. It's it's you know, or the workout wasn't as good. You know, when you're into this stuff, you really want quality and you want it to be good, and and I so I think that's important. Um, and I certainly do, right? But um, so I don't think that price is a huge differentiation here. Um, you know, when you think about lifetime value and lifetime cost, everyone's paying 40 bucks a month or 50 bucks a month for the content for the whole household to use is a great value. Um and so the upfront cost is relatively small relative to kind of paying that forever. They're all the same price from an affordability perspective, right? And I talk about with financing because that's a it's a readily available thing. Um, but by and large, these things are are very good value, um, and they're not that differentiated from a price perspective.

And so our view is that you're gonna choose the best one um given that, right? And um you know we we think that's us.

Um but like we're not the best fit for everyone. But I think just from a from a premium perspective of what we're offering, I think you're getting more. Um not to say the other ones aren't good too, right? I'm not trying to Yeah.

No, no, that's not what I heard. I mean, I think uh I've always been a big fan of Go Premium, you know, if you're picking any kind of because you know, if you're gonna do it, you might as well do the highest.

That's how I was that's how right that's how I was raised. It it's kind of um yeah, uh you buy you buy quality, you take care of it. Uh and yes, um, you know, but I also think that this category has um you know this can consumers in general don't always appreciate the difference between price and value. Uh and especially in this category, because the number one reason that people quit the gym surveys today is is price in effect. You know, they're like it's too expensive. That's not true. It's it you got a bad value because you didn't go often enough, right? And so it's it's I hear you, you're yes, you're saying something, but you're not fully being articulate about it. Because uh the follow-up question is, okay, well, for $5,000, if I snap my fingers, could you get the body that you wanted or feel the way you wanted? Most people would say yes, and that's a lot more expensive than the gym they decided was too expensive. So the issue is what they're paying and what they're getting and the outcome. And so I think the the more we can link your effort to the outcome through technology, through convenience, through engagement, um, the more value consumers will see. And I and I think it's a value issue, not a price issue in this in this industry.

That's great, man. I I had to take notes on what you said right there because it was so good. I mean, you may have just named the episode. Um so when you look at I'm I I I love I want to hear the vision, right? When you see like five years from now, we don't know what's gonna happen. Like we were just talking pre-recording, like we thought the pandemic was done, but still it's here. It's August 2021, and you know, numbers are going up against in certain parts of the country. So we don't really know. But that stuff aside, if you're gonna take a longer like vision of what's going on in the world of the fitness industries, particularly its relationship with connected fitness, where do you see uh where do you see it going? What does that look like in your mind's eye?

I mean, even more than five years, I I'm not sure. I haven't come up with a good reason why everyone doesn't have a device like this in their home at the end of the day. And and you know, I'm sure maybe it's not everybody, but it's a good portion. Um we all have personal communication devices, right? We you know, there there is a uh a level of expectation of on-demand, there's a level of expectation of kind of expert or curated content, you know, digital content gets pushed around pretty easily. Um and everyone needs activity in their life, right? And so when you think about the and the and the most logical place to have it is at home, right? Because it's the it's the it's the most affordable and it's the most convenient. And the number one driver to good outcomes and activity uh is consistency, and you know, that means at home. Um so I think there's a lot of big factors that drive this to be to everyone to have some sort of fitness option at home.

And it look, it may just be digital content on the television, and that's great.

Um, but I I'm you know, I'm not gonna say it's like Jetson-esque, but it's I think it's more just the idea of I want content that's for me, and I want some level of measurement and tracking so that I know I'm doing it, I have confidence that the content I'm getting is the right content and that I feel a sense of accomplishment. Um there's a lot of ways to get there, but I think those, you know, big picture, those should be there. Now, if I'm at a higher risk of injury or I have more money, I'm value or I want a person to be watching me doing that. There's the one-to-one business. Even if it's not the money thing, but I just actually need more flexibility in my schedule, you know, it's the combination of having that one-to-one, but also having digital on demand. So I think it's there's a lot of different combinations to drive this solution, which is ultimately just how do I fit, engage in compelling fitness in my life. Um, and and so that's why it just feels like a really big market and a big opportunity, and there'll be different solutions for all different demographics. And you know, ours is clearly going to be we're the you know, we're the premium play in the category. We, you know, we are the four seasons, we are the you know, the whatever it is. Um and I and look, I think there's a lot of precedent. Um, when I've looked at other industries where, you know, there was an iPod. Sorry, before that, but there was a there was a uh what do they call it, MP3 players, the you know, the Microsoft Zune and stuff. Yeah, and then the iPod is now 80, 90% market share, right? There was a Prius, uh right, you know, and that was great, but Tesla's better, you know, and I think you're seeing um in these categories there's technological innovation, and then ultimately a higher design, more thoughtful answer ends up being the winner in the category. Um, and so you know I think uh we're trying to follow a similar path of just providing a better option for people that want that.

Yeah, man. Great, great answer. And uh I guess you know, I I want to respect your time. So as I kind of bring this back, um what about data? I mean, it's not the sexiest thing to talk about, right? Depends who you're talking to. It's uh yeah, yeah, okay, it's true, true. I think I'm talking the right guy. Uh you know, it's it's something that you know the fitness industry, I was I was just watching a um a webinar on on data and and how it's being used in health clubs and things like that. And there's there's so much data points now, right? I mean, even uh I work with Morpheus, and you know, pre-launch we have a million, a billion data points that we can work with on you know all kinds of sleep and HRB and all these this data we're connecting on consumers. What is your what gets you excited about the data?

Harnessing it for kind of useful outcomes, not just having it because it's there. And I think it's important to say no to things, and it's important to not give people all the data because you can. I think it's how do you have data and insight, but put it into contextual guidance, you know. Um, because look, I I have my aura ring, I had a whoop band, um, I like this stuff, it's interesting. I had I had a Fitbit, you know, originally. Um, but once I sort of realized my general activity level was around 10,000 steps a day, um, you know, I didn't need it for accountability. I didn't need it for that. It wasn't changing my behavior. It was a measurement that I kind of understood. And so I stopped it stopped being meaningful to me. Now, other people really want to close their rings or do other things, and you know, um, so we use it for different purposes. What I what I want data to do, I want it to be there, I want to understand it, but I also don't want to have to understand it. I want to have an actionable outcome that is there. Because you shouldn't have to understand this stuff for it to be useful.

And right now we have a gap between there's data and then you have to understand it and then put it into practice.

I don't maybe I don't want to, maybe I don't know how to do it. Um, and so really kind of linking that and putting that data into context to, well, what should I do differently to get a different outcome? How do I be how does this become useful? Um and you know, I think when I've seen the the form feedback from kind of some computer vision stuff that's out in the market, it's not particularly helpful. It's it's certainly not how I was coached when I played sports to have better technique. It's not, it's it's it's interesting technology, but it's not coming from a coach, and it's not really how it works. Same thing with this, you know, great, so I didn't sleep well last night. Do I need that to tell me that I should sleep better tonight? Right? Like, you know, or you you can use it as a measurement to okay, what temperature should the room be? Or hey, if I eat late, it doesn't work. Once you've learned that lesson, some people need a reminder and that's fine, but others don't.

And I'm I still don't see the link between that data and what I should do to do better.

Um, you know, so that that's kind of how I think about data is like where is it most important and what why are we using it? Like be judicious in it, in the use of it. Um so you know, sometimes don't share all the data. Um, but I I think and and look it's case by case, but uh I I I take up um a slightly uh moderate view of uh data usage. It's great, there's a lot of exciting things there, but I think you gotta really be empathetic about the consumer and what that experience is before you give them a bunch of data.

Yeah. And you you said the key factor, it's gotta be actionable, right? I call it the what now. It's like, okay, cool. Now we know all this. What now? Yeah, and that's if you can't answer that question, then then it's really not as valuable as you thought it was in its current um in its current form. So um, you know, Trent, I I want to get you back on, uh, especially when when you do the live one-to-one training for coaches and and fitness professional. I think that's really keen to follow up on. I really, I I really respect what you're doing with that. I think it's great. Um obviously you've come a long way in your company, you have a long vision of where you're going. Like you said, you're committed your life to this. So that's uh that's that's no uh those aren't not strong words, I guess you could say. Um, but yeah, man, thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure. And if Trent, if people want to get a hold of you, uh where do they find you? Where do you send them online?

Uh it's a website's uh www.formlife.com, F-O-R-M-E uhlife.com, and uh Instagram uh as well. This is Form Life. Um so you know those are the those are definitely the best places. Um that being said, um there are 40 plus various locations with form uh hardware in it. Um you know, we have uh a handful of stores around the country as well.

Um definitely we're seeing in person, right?

So you know, bet go to a various class, um, see the device there in in the lobby. Um it's a good combination.

Right on. Awesome, man. Well, Trent, thank you so much for coming on the Future of Fitness. It's been an absolute pleasure, and uh I look forward to getting you back on. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Eric. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Fitness. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.