The Future of Client Experience - Barry Ennis & Shay Kostabi

Something we hear a lot from our communities that they don't have any confidence when they go up in front of their class. And that's because they don't have any uh they don't have anything in their tool belt.

Uh they're just saying words go faster, good job.

It's kind of regurgitated that they've heard other people say, and there's no system in place to help them clearly communicate and create an experience. So that's where we come in and we give them those tools.

What's up, fitness friends? Welcome back to the future fitness podcast and interview series. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and this is episode number 164. I get to talk to Barry Enos and Shay Kestabi. They are from FitnessCareer Mastery.com and uh a fitness power couple, I'll say it. It was really fun. Really had a great conversation with them. Their stories are fantastic in how they got here, 20 plus years combined within the fitness and health industry and uh international, right? I think in this uh in their stories, we talked about them being in India, Dubai, uh, where else? Um China. I think I'm missing another one or two. So they've they've been around, right? They've seen a lot of things, they have a lot of experience to offer. And in this particular show, we really honed in on client experience and what that means, um, and understanding that it's a huge component, you know, to everything uh in the fitness industry now is how do you create a very unique and uh seemingly organic yet very focused client experience on who you're trying to serve, right? Who your ideal client is, and then more importantly, who you are, understanding who your what your core values are as a business and a brand and a person, um, and how to put that into your business to attract the like the right clients. And uh very powerful, you know, they work with a lot of fitness professionals and boutique studio owners and helping them develop and uh their business and find clarity and and therefore traction in what they do in an industry, especially in Southern California where they are, which is very crowded. Um I think I don't think there is a market in the world that uh, and this is me coming from Southern California as well, um that is more crowded than that and more competitive. So you truly have to have an edge. So coming from their perspective and and working in that that area, it's it's very powerful. So yeah, it was awesome. Um at the end as well, they gave very very clear, concise, four actionable steps that you can take uh in creating a client experience. And one of the things we talked about here was tech. Right? How does tech play into it now? And then in the next few years and 10 years and decade, you know, we don't know what tech's gonna look like in 10 years, but we have a pretty good idea of what it is now, maybe where it's going in the next two. So, how do we leverage that? How important is it? You'll find out in this episode. Before we get to it, uh a couple of our sponsors. Number one, levelfive mentors.com. So if you are an entrepreneur and you're looking to achieve the highest levels of freedom in time, money, relationships, purpose, and health, isn't that the most important five? Then go to levelfivementors.com, schedule a free call, and uh we'd love to talk to you, as well as certifiedcoursecreation.com. So if you have a concept for an accredited online certification that can be both impactful and lucrative, let us know because we can help you get there and we can help that dream become a reality. And we want to. We're looking for great partners in 2020. And uh, if you feel like you have a depth of knowledge that you need to get out there and you want to scale your influence and stop training your time for money, then perhaps an accredited online certification is the way to go. So go check it out, certifiedcoursecreation.com. And finally, if you're looking to network and talk to other people within the fitness industry, go check out our Facebook group, the Modern Fitness Pro. Uh, it's free, it's closed. There is a small application that I asked you to fill out. Once you're in there, uh we can chat. We can talk more. I post all my episodes in there as well. So it's a good way to keep uh on top of what's going on in the industry. And I would love to meet you. So go check it out. Without further ado, episode number 164, Barry and Shay from FitnessCareer Mastery.com. We're live. Barry and Shay. Hi, how's it going, Eric? Good, really good. Uh, it's been um we've kind of rescheduled a bunch of times, and I've been looking for this inner this interview for for quite some time. So thank you guys for making the time. I know you're you're very busy. Um tables are turned. Yeah, right, right, good. Well, let's let's get everyone introduced to you. People who don't know who you are, give us um your background, your story.

Uh together we are fitness career mastery. Uh, we joined Forces earlier this year. Shay had a consultancy and I had the Fitness Career Mastery podcast, and we've come together to provide high-level education and resources to fitness business owners and studio owners out there. Um, but before all of that happens, uh, we had a lot of experience in the industry ourselves.

We've both been teaching for over a decade. Um, I started in New York City basically during the birth of the boutique fitness boom. I was born as a fitness professional the same year that SoulCycle was born. So I witnessed that explosion. That explosion. I was in the middle of it. And um because of that, and because of my background and my passion for it, it my career just exploded very quickly. I grew up as a performer, dancing and acting, and I was in New York to be an actress, but I fell in love with fitness at some point and uh just couldn't turn. I tried to do both and I couldn't turn my back on it, and it was just the right time. I was at the right time at the right place, which uh eventually took me all over the planet. So after about six years of teaching, and really I've been teaching since I was 13. I started teaching dance at 13, and I've worked as a choreographer, I've worked in production uh for film and for commercials. So I I just have all of these experiences, and I have a really keen eye for detail and I'm very creative and I'm a good leader and a teacher, and I just thought, I want to do this on my own. And uh so very early on, because I think it takes most people, you know, about a decade before they reach the place where they consider themselves a master. But if we look at my background, I'd actually been working on a lot of these things for many, many years. So I moved back to Los Angeles and I was like, I want to do this on my own, I'm gonna start my own thing. So I first I started a collective in Los Angeles called the Local Skill, and I produced these immersive fitness experiences. Our whole mission was to merge art and wellness. So on many different levels. Um and we came up with all kinds of concepts and pop-ups, and we worked with studios in the area and did media projects. It was super fun. And so through that, I started consulting. I met Barry in Dubai, uh, I where he was teaching, I was sent there to train him to teach a bar class. And we just became really good friends and stayed in touch over the years, and we both moved to Los Angeles around the same time. And I was working with a company in China and as their consultant and their master trainer and programmer, and they kept asking me to move there. I was like, no, I got my own business in LA, I got a boyfriend and a dog, and I can't do that. So I would I would fly back and forth every few months, and there came an opportunity. Um, it was just again the right place at the right time. They they really needed somebody there more full-time. So we moved to Beijing together to help launch the studio in Beijing, and then Barry stayed on for three years, and he can tell the rest of his story. But yeah, that's how my consulting kind of happened. I just started producing things and helping people and built my business. And as Barry said, he when he started the podcast, it just made sense. I said, well, this is such a good vehicle. This is such an incredible um lead generator and a way to share what I do and what we do, but there's no business behind it. And I have a business, so let's give me forces and like make this happen because you're doing things that I've been wanting to do for years that I don't have the bandwidth for. And I was leading this lifestyle and doing all these projects that Barry very much wanted to be doing in his career. And I'm like, well, I'm gonna make this happen.

Yeah.

Then we got married.

Yeah, yeah, and then you got married, right? Yeah.

That's great, exactly. Well, it's interesting because I think Shay represents um a lot of people that enter the in uh the fitness industry coming from dance or coming from a performance background, yeah. Yeah, and I think I represent another group of people that come from sports or athletics.

And uh because I hated TE growing up. I just I got my dance teacher to sign a note for me. I hated running. I would go to the gym and cry. I really hated it.

So that was exactly the opposite. I was waking up at five in the morning to travel an hour to go to baseball camp for six hours hours because I really wanted to play professionally. So that was my upbringing growing up. That was my introduction to fitness and exercise and sports and conditioning. Um, I played baseball all the way through college. And yoga was actually a big part of my training for baseball. Um I don't know if that's because uh I grew up in LA and that's just kind of more of the culture here. But uh yoga became yeah, yeah, in one way or another. Uh yoga became a huge part of um I guess my practice routine. I noticed it was helping me prevent injury. Um I was uh feeling stronger and more capable on the field, and then I was also feeling like more present and grounded. Um, baseball is a very mental game. So yoga uh was very important to me there, like meditation and visualization. So that's actually become a big part of my my teaching now. Uh but graduating college, there wasn't the opportunity to continue that baseball career. So um I decided that yoga would be a good thing to do. I I think a lot of people come out of college not sure what they want to do with their major. I was one of those people. I thought uh I'll teach yoga until I figure my life out. And uh I guess I haven't figured it out yet because I'm still teaching. No, I'm I'm kidding. No one has it figured out very much. Yeah, if you figure it out.

If you figured it out, you'd be dead. What would be the point? It's your life.

No, I I'm clearly doing what I was meant to do, but um I just dove headlong into yoga, and it wasn't shortly after graduating that I discovered this yoga teacher training and this philosophy that kind of took these ancient life principles from yoga texts and applied them to everyday living, how to develop a better relationship with yourself and with others, and um for a form a more mindful lifestyle. And that was I was so drawn to that that I moved to India to study it in more depth. And I wound up living there for six years before um taking this path into living life as an expat, which I've essentially been doing for the last 10 years.

Well, not India for six years, that's a long time.

I was did I say six years? I was there for six months.

Okay, and then in yeah, and I'm like that that's a whole other story, India for six years.

Yeah, it felt like six years in some ways. A lifetime. Um exactly. I got an opportunity in Dubai. I was there for longer, four years, uh, helped teach boot camps on the beach. I was managing the first international studio of a really big US brand uh before moving back to Los Angeles and then he didn't last long.

I shipped him off to China.

Yeah, back to China and abroad. So um I've been all over the world. I've had the unique opportunity to see fitness grow in uh populations where it's not very popular or not part of the culture and uh be witness to it spreading across the globe, which is really, really cool.

Fascinating because we're gonna talk about this today. But you know, in China, fitness is very new, but because of the age that we're in, because of technology, because of social media, because they see what we're doing in the West, that took us 30 years to build up to. They want that now. They want it now, and they actually, in some ways, have the capacity to catch up. Um, you know, they can, in terms of you know, studio build-out and on demand, but the depth of knowledge, the experience, the talent, yeah, and the language and the culture just doesn't exist.

In the US, we grow up playing sports and being very active, and that's just not part of people would come to our studio.

People would come to the studio that we were working with for a cycle class, dressed in overalls or blue jeans and a button-down shirt, full-on like silk chiffon. Um, it just the most, you know, leather belts. And uh one girl came in like a full-on sweatshirt. She she she she was like uh she had like this urban vibe and had, you know, like she looked like Billie Eilish. She had like this big sweatshirt and uh and a beanie on, you're gonna pass out. That's too many clothes for class. Or women would show up to the bar classes in like a cute little skirt. Well, like, no, we lift our legs up and we do all kinds of things inappropriate attire.

Yeah.

Um, so we had to teach them what to wear and how to behave and what was expected. And some of them had never sweat like that before.

Yeah.

So it was really fascinating to be a part of that.

And on the instructor side, I just found that there was so much that I had picked up on that when I was training them how to be in front of a group of people, just they didn't know and stuff that came second nature to me. So that was a huge inspiration for me to start the Fitness Career Mastery podcast and uh find a way a platform to share all of these tips and insights and stuff that we've taken for granted.

Yeah. That we've learned over time. And in an age where, because the industry is growing so quickly, people don't have time to take 10 years to figure it out on their own. So this is a way for us to help others fast track themselves and get up to speed and up to the level where they need to be. Because what we're gonna be talking about today really is a lot about experience and what what clients are expecting and and what we should be offering to them. So they they've got to get savvy, they've got to get on top of it really, really quick. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think it okay. There's some, I mean, I have a lot of follow-up questions on that whole story. It's amazing. And I think, you know, the cool thing about it is, I mean, you guys have lived, you know, multiple different lives and different worlds and literally what seems like different worlds. I mean, these countries you're talking about aren't like Canada, right? Like the cultures are dynamically different.

Um actually, I always joke that I went to the three countries with the hardest languages to learn Arabic and Mandarin. It's like struggles.

I would be wandering around still to this day looking for McDonald's or something, you know? Yeah.

I just did a training in Merida, Mexico, which is, you know, Mexico is a third world country. And uh Merida is a tiny little town. There's no architecture. Uh, there's, you know, the streets are unpaved, people kind of drive wherever they want, but there's a fitness culture there and they want it and they want to be a part of it, and they're really, really active. So the boutique fitness industry is taking off in this place where you couldn't even imagine. I mean, driving down the street, I'm like, there's no, we're building a boutique fitness studio here. I mean, with a full-on cycle theater and a hit room, we're really that's happening. Okay. Uh so it's it's just crazy because when you see, I mean, when you walk into the space, it's incredible that it even exists in a place like that. When you walk out the door and it there's like a shack with a dude selling some tacos and some dogs running around, you're like, this is wild.

But it kind of is a little LA.

But but fitness is just so huge and people want it so badly.

And uh it's just do you find that people's motivation for fitness is different in different cultures than it is here? I mean, you know, at the first stage, everyone here was just it's aesthetics, right? Yes, yeah. Um, but how does that differ in different cultures?

Well, um I'll I'll take this one. Uh what I've noticed uh in Dubai and in China, it's almost a status symbol, actually. It's uh social status. Yeah. It's a sign that you have disposable income. It's part of this lifestyle of extravagance that you live in Dubai. It goes right in line with the expensive villa that you have on the beach and the nanny and the driver that you have and the car that you drive. Um and uh I think you know the type of fitness attire that you wear kind of falls into line with that.

Um who you hang out with, what other clubs and memberships you belong to. Um, the the place that we worked at in China has a very close relationship with Mercedes. So if you are part of the Mercedes uh club, um, and we have those here too. There's Mercedes Athletic Club and social clubs and stuff. So um then you would you would be a part of this studio.

Right. Which is wild uh thinking about our culture here in the US, because to align a fitness studio with a luxury car just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

It doesn't. No, it doesn't because they would probably be getting a personal trainer in their home. Exactly. Right.

Um but we have other ways, I think it's a social status here as as well. You know, people are trading in their uh uh balanciaga bags for their Lululemon or their Lucas Hugh leggings, which are $400. Lucas Hughes the $400 a pair of leggings. So the fact that that even exists is insane to me that people spend $1,000 in an outfit to sweat in. But again, that's a status symbol. I have disposable income, I have a luxury lifestyle, I make my own schedule, I can pay for this high-end membership at an equinox or otherwise, or I can afford to buy a Peloton and put it in my house and you know, and pay for the on-demand and be a part of that community.

So it's interesting. I I see the US almost trending from aesthetics to more of a status symbol, whereas in other countries it's going in the opposite direction. They're entering, um, using it as a status symbol, but then falling in love with it, feeling the results, feeling how it's changing them internally, and they're moving more towards valuing it as aesthetics or mental health or otherwise.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's fascinating. I I mean, I want to unpack this a little bit more, but I don't know if I don't want to get too far off course. Because I'd just be curious like, how do you guys find these international consulting gigs or these jobs? Like, what networks have you guys tapped into? Because a lot of people are probably listening, they're like, I want to do what a cool job in China. You know?

I want to it's it's mostly been word of mouth.

Um, to be honest. Sorry if you're listening. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's no secrets.

Barry just happened to be overseas and arrived in Dubai. You were selling valves or something, right? You were working for a valve.

I was doing nothing related to fitness. I was selling large-sized valves, valves you can walk into six-foot valves for oil and gas pipelines. I just needed a job opportunity, and that was the first time.

And it just so happened that a large US brand was opening in Dubai. They needed instructors, they needed studio managers, and obviously you didn't want to be selling valves, so you jumped on that. That's a huge opportunity. And that so he's very lucky, and I think that's that's super uncommon. I would say for me, um, there a couple of things needed to be to happen first before I got this opportunity. I had to have experience, I was aligned with a very well-known uh national brand that definitely everybody in the industry knows and that most people have heard of. Um, and I I was on the I started on the creative team, so helping to uh develop the programming in-house as it involved. Then I tried recruiting and I didn't like that. And I eventually moved into basically a talent management role as the company was growing. I made we made it up, you know, it was at a time, everything was so new. So I made up my role. I was like, these are the things I'd like to be responsible for. I was very, very lucky. That doesn't happen very often. Um, and and through that, uh, I think I'm very ambitious and my background in wanting. To be an actress was like, well, how do I get well known as a fitness professional? So and living in New York City. So I ended up doing, you know, I've been on through all the media outlets, like in every, you know, Glamour magazine and Shape magazine and getting a feature on Pop Sugar. And then I started working with another startup, which was a fitness product, and I built a program for it. And then we made DVDs and sold them on QVC. And I did, you know, so uh I think I had this internal drive to become well known so that I could have an impact. So that's the drive. So people knew who I was. So then, you know, my social media following was not even that high at the time. It had nothing to do with that. I was doing work. People were seeing me on TV and in media. And then uh the other key factor was I uh made sure at the time nobody really uses, I can't even remember what it's called, like your Google Plus profile thing. What is that called?

That thing went dead in the water like two years ago. Yeah.

But at the time, the company I was working with was like, you need to be, this needs to be like super clear on every channel. So having an Instagram, a Twitter, a Facebook fan page, um, the the Google whatever profile, uh, posting on those things daily, and then a LinkedIn. And I paid for LinkedIn premium, which uh at the time I just really LinkedIn to me is some people love it, but it's my brain does not process the information on that page in a way that is interesting to me. Oh, I love it. See? So I didn't, but it's so valuable. I see the value in it, but I had to have somebody help me. I was like, help me do this LinkedIn thing. Um that was that opened up seriously, just paying for a premium account, opened up the doors for me and and making sure I did the thing, like continually updating my profile, posting things on LinkedIn. Um, so I would get these job opportunities. Uh, I was uh New Balance called me and they started an ambassador, a female ambassador program. They chose seven women in the entire country. And again, I had 1,500 followers on Instagram. It this is like before that was really important. Um, so then I became, you know, featured through New Balance, uh, which was really, really great for me. And and just being, you know, just being a part of the system, you know, getting out there and being involved in different communities. And then basically what happened was I got uh my first international, was that my first, I think the first big international job offer that I got was through this company, which is based in Taiwan, and I received uh an email through LinkedIn, hi, we're looking for a master trainer in cycling and bar, which is what I did, and everybody knew that because I had a website and everything you could tell. And uh, we want somebody to move here for three years and help us build our brand. And I went, I had to Google Taiwan. I was like, where is Taiwan in the world or Taipei? You know, move to Taipei for three years. What American in their right mind is just gonna move to Taipei on a whim? Nobody, unless you're crazy, which is me.

Yeah, Shay does. Yeah, it's it's yeah I it's funny because uh this is absolutely the way to do it uh if you're looking to teach on an international uh scale, but that's the experience that you've had. The experience that I've had is to do that crazy is to just go do the crazy thing.

Yeah, you have to be a little insane to want to go to a foreign country where you know absolutely no one and you can't speak the language and say, Yes, I'm gonna help you build your brand.

I mean, it's just it's a huge But that's exactly what I did, and that's what put me on the map. So if if you're like me and willing to go on an adventure, like just get on Google. Get on a well, get on a plane and go somewhere. Get on Instagram, um, search some hashtags, find out what studios are opening in some countries that you might be interested in checking out or living in. They are so hungry for Western instructors. They'll hire you in a heartbeat.

Yeah, so you can you can reach out yourself, especially now with social media and all of the other tools that we have.

But that kind of puts you on the map as um an international fitness instructor, which is what happened to me. So either path is completely extracting a hybrid of the two.

I just responded to an email. So the yeah, the one way is I think both, a combination of both, making sure that um that people can find you, that they know what you do and who you are and what your vibe is and what you're good at and what you're passionate about. Being super clear about who you are, and um and and doing the work, you know, just doing not waiting for an opportunity, putting yourself in a position where um you are creating in some way, even if it's small, that's what gets the that's what attracts people to you. That's why that email came in. And I said, no, of course I don't want to move to Taiwan for three years, but I'd love to find a way to work together. That's the first thing I said, and they flew out to me, and I didn't have to move there, is the other thing is you don't have to just do what somebody else asks you.

And you can counter-offer.

You can counteroffer people do it all the time, especially if you have the experience and the skills, and they can see that. And then the the second piece is I think to just reach out if that's something that you want to do, because as Barry said, um, and as we've explained, the in places like South America, Mexico, uh throughout Southeast Asia, Asia, yeah, it's fitness is still, and even in Europe, it's still very new, and they need to pull in people that have more experience than they do, and that means it needs to come from the United States right now. But it's always gonna come from the United States. US, Australia, and sort of and Canada now is is catching up.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, but the podcast has also been a great lead generator for us.

It's like a really incredible way to establish ourselves as an international community and reach people all all over the world. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Natalie, I had Natalie Dow. I don't know if you know her, she's out of Singapore, but she was on the podcast like early, early, like first 50 episodes, and we talked about the opportunities in Singapore and how you know she she called it a going out there very China for beginners. I think she's the way she referred to Singapore is like kind of coming as easy, it's it's friendly to Western culture.

And everybody speaks English, yeah. It's very cool.

And she's doing quite well. I mean, it seems like she's doing quite well. So um, let's let's get into kind of what you guys do. I'm curious. I first of all, I love the fact that you guys have mastery in there because um, you know, we talked about like 10-year periods of mastery, right? And I I feel like if there's one message I would want people to understand, is like, hey, it's okay if you don't get it in the first year.

Yes.

Right? That's that's a big thing. And and mastery comes over time. And anecdotally, I you know, when I sold my my gyms in California and and went out and started doing other things, you know, the guy who was coaching me and my mentor at the time is like, hey, listen, Eric, it took you nine years to get pretty good at owning a gym. Right now, whatever you start next, just understand it's probably gonna take another nine.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's I think that's a message that a lot of people need to hear. And that's why I really appreciate the fact that you use mastery because it implies time, lifetime, getting good at something.

Totally. Right. In fact, I I'd say if you get to a year and you're discouraged that you aren't at the level that you don't that that you want to be, don't get discouraged. But then also if you get to a year and you feel like you've gotten to that point, then you've also got to check in with yourself because neither are correct. And we can always uh be finding ways to fine-tune what it is that we do in order to continually uh chase mastery.

Yeah, education is a huge component of our business, whether we offer that for free through the podcast or through our products and services. Um basically what we've realized is that uh you it's as you said, it takes time to become really good at something. And the way, the traditional way in which we are certified in fitness is uh that you take that you sign up for a course for one to four days max. It's usually a weekend, 16 hours. And you just have to download all of the information, especially if it's a program. So if you want to teach Zumba, it's I think it's a one-day, eight-hour certificate certification. If you want to become a cycling instructor, those are all one-day, eight-hour certifications. Um, it's it's a lot of information. And uh there's there's definitely value, there's foundation level stuff that you need to know, but in absolutely no way does that certification teach you to teach. It teaches you what you should teach, but it does not give you the skill to actually teach and communicate and connect with people.

And um similarly, if you get your ACE or your NASM, um teaches you all the fundamentals you need to know to be a personal trainer um or otherwise. Um, but then you're just kind of tossed out there and you're not taught how to find clients or connect with clients or build a business around that.

So there's a lot of these people are left to their own devices. A lot of trainers, as we mentioned, that come into the industry are either from a performance background or from an athletic background, or they're people that have, you know, they have their own personal weight loss story or they've overcome something and they just want to pay it forward. Most of these people don't have a business degree, you know, or a marketing degree, or they don't know anything about sales. They're not teachers. So there's and our and our industry as a whole is very highly unregulated. So what we're trying to do is fill in the gaps, um, especially now when there's so much out there, there's so much competition, and our resources are are really strained. There's so many ways we can spell spend our time and our money. So, why? Why are we gonna spend $100 going to a personal trainer or a $30 drop-in to go to this class when yeah, I could do it on my own or I could get it on an app or or whatever. So it's really, really important that these additional skills are developed. So um, what we do, uh, we have the podcast where we talk to all kinds of people um and we share and we have them share knowledge from sales and sales funnels and marketing to brand building to client retention and acquisition to sound design and class experience. How to make a playlist, how to make a playlist, uh coaching and queuing, the do's and don'ts of Pilates, you know, so basically everything. Yeah.

Uh that's a lot.

Yeah.

And um there's an overarching theme that we've noticed exists in every one of those episodes, even though they're seemingly all over the place. And it has to do with how do I create a better experience for the people that I'm seeing. Um, and that comes through in your marketing, that comes through in your sales funnels, it comes through in how you teach your class and create your playlist, your sound design, your sounding design.

That's what it is, and it's fundamentally what you're selling, it's what you're exchanging value for.

And in fitness, the product is not just one thing, it's there's so many components to your product, so there's a lot of things to think about. Um, but we do so we do consulting for Boutique Fitness Studios. We do a program development and teacher training primarily in cycling, fitness boxing, hit, and sculpt yoga. Cycling would be the number one for us. It's just the most popular. Fitness boxing is coming up really quick. Hit kind of comes and goes. Um, I feel like it's making another resurgence right now. And then we do one-on-one coaching for uh fitness professionals, primarily instructors, but we also work with people. Um the call I had this morning is um a fitness instructor who would like to transition into building her own brand.

And then just continuing education as well. Yeah.

So online courses. So we have a course right now called The Art of Coaching and Queing, and we will roll out five more. So these are so again, you learn your modality or you learn the method or the program, whatever it is. Nobody teaches you how to teach it. The the number one thing you need to know how to do is how to communicate visually and verbally.

Something we hear a lot from our community is that they don't have any confidence when they go up in front of their class. And that's because they don't have any, uh they don't have anything in their tool belt.

Uh they're just saying words, go faster, good job.

Just kind of regurgitate that they've heard other people say, and there's no system in place to help them clearly communicate and create an experience. So that's where we come in. We give them those tools, uh, so they're not having to think about so much when they're in front of their class and they can focus more on letting their personality come out, which is what provides. Yeah.

And then we offer live, we have live workshops, which will eventually turn into online courses. So one of them being persona development, which is how you develop charisma as an instructor. And really, it comes down to knowing who you are and your core values. It's a really fun workshop. We also teach workshops on musicality and playlisting. Um, uh, we have a psychology of motivation course. So these are things that we that we teach internally when a boutique studio hires us. And this is information that should be available to all teachers, whether you teach at a 24-hour fitness or a Gold's gym or Soul Cycle. It shouldn't matter. These are fundamental things that everybody needs to know. But right now, trainers and instructors are only getting this kind of training if they work at a very high-end boutique studio. And I do not feel that that's proprietary. There are certain things that are, and these things are not one and one of them. How to communicate, how to engage, knowing about your client's psychology or how they receive information, how to put a playlist together appropriately. Like that's that's general information that it is not currently available, that everybody should have access to. That's what we're building and that's what we offer.

Awesome. The reason this is so very important in the fitness landscape right now is because it's gotten very, very competitive out there. Many markets are oversaturated. Um, it's just harder to pull people's attention away from all the other experiences they could go out and spend their dime on. Um so developing all of these fine skills is going to ensure that people carve out time for your class, for your personal training session, get off of Instagram, uh, say no to some other school fun opportunities that um are out there and they write into their calendar with permanent ink to make sure they come see you.

Um it's not enough to just give people a good sweat anymore. It's not enough to be the smartest trainer in the room who knows everything about anatomy and physiology and kinesiology.

Um if you're not able to communicate that clearly or be entertaining or create an experience, people are just not gonna come back.

Yeah. Yeah. It's um there's a couple, I I during my when I was actually coaching people, you know, my the goal was to give them the best hour of their day. Yes. Right? Like how how do you do that? It's just a feeling, right? It's a feeling. It's the workout, sure. It's part of it. Your programming is not unimportant, but right, it's it's the experience. And what you guys are teaching, I don't want to put a label on it, but I will right now anyway. Um is that you know, I call it the now what because people will go get a certification, like I'll go get my CrossFit level one, I'll get, you know, my whatever cert, right? And then I sit there, I'm like, okay, now what?

Now what? 100%. Right. It's it's um, but what you're talking about is that feeling is there's some things that I think people don't innately think about, how to remain present with your client. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a trainer, you know, texting somebody like this, who like, okay, five more reps, bro, you're doing a good job, or looking at their watch, or talking to another trainer while their client is working out or eating a sandwich. I mean, you know, this stuff really happens. I've seen it happen. Sure.

Or in a group fitness setting, they're looking at themselves in the mirror and checking themselves out and fixing their hair.

They're not looking at anybody else in the room, they're totally concerned with themselves, or they're fiddling with their music the entire time, fiddling with their headset, their ponytail. They they're checking their phone before class, they're not making themselves available. And ultimately, what it comes down to is your is your presence. Are you giving people all of your energy in that? That's what they're coming for. They they're not they're not actually coming just for the workout. Like we said a thousand times, they can do it in their house. If they were capable of doing it in their house, they would do it. They're there because they need you. They need somebody to hold them accountable, they need somebody to lift them up, they need somebody to motivate them. They want to be seen, they want to feel valued, they need help. So you can't just flip on the music and walk around and pace in front of the room and say, eight more reps, good job for a whole hour. That's not enough. So, um, and I think, you know, we're trying to change the perception of the fitness professional in our industry. A lot of people say the word just is used. I'm just a trainer, I'm just a teacher, and it's a really, really important job, and it's a hard job, and you're you should not take your power of impact and influence for granted whether you teach a class for five people or a thousand people. That person, if you do your job right, is gonna make decisions about their life based on the one hour they spend with you a day or maybe three hours a week, right? How they dress, how they speak about themselves, the choices they make with food, the type of people they hang out with, the type of activities they engage in will be influenced by what you say and what you do and what you give to them in that hour.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's not enough to just phone it in or or or just uh, you know, put together a good program and just show up. It's not enough.

Yeah. It's interesting too, is I I found in my coaching career that over time I started to just show up more and more. You know, because you can just you don't have to you can just go literally just go on autopilot.

Oh, yeah.

Right. And then you just it's really easy to just let that slide and it's so um and you take what you do for granted. You know, take your clients for granted. Yeah, yeah.

So burn burnout is another one when you're training eight hours a day on your feet, you're seeing clients back to back, or you're teaching 15 to 20 classes a week, um, which again is why we hope when people come to us, it's like, how do you stay inspired? How do you stay connected to your why, which is something that we ask of our clients every day. Uh so giving them the tools, this a lot of this comes with our persona development course. Um, giving them some tools that they can constantly come back to and check in with. The same goes for businesses, the for the gyms, whether it's a CrossFit box or a Pilates studio, it's very easy to get burnt out on your business. You're doing the same thing every day, it's the same classes every day, you see a lot of same clients every day, and that can get um really redundant for you. Um, so how do you, you know, where does the inspiration come from?

Right.

What what can you look to in you know, inside yourself instead of outside, which is what pe which is we were talking about before the call is oh, this new thing, this new technology. Oh, I need an in-body system and I need bit metrics on the wall, and we've got to get heart rate monitors, and we're gonna gamify the workout, and then we're gonna put ourselves online and we're gonna get a hologram trainer.

You guys can say it. Peloton the shit out of it. I don't mind if we swear.

Yeah, we're gonna Peloton the shit out of this studio, which I I was telling you, I've heard a few times now. We gotta Peloton that shit, which basically means what they're seeing.

No idea what that means.

They want the the studios, the brick and mortar businesses want what Peloton has. They want that power of influence, they want that authority, they want to make that impact, uh, they want to have that reach, and therefore they want to make that money, is ultimately what they're looking for. And so they're grasping at straws when um they don't even know what they want.

inside what makes you unique what are your unique strengths and skill sets what are your values come back to your core values of yourself and if you're really clear on that then you're going to attract the right people yeah who do you guys who's doing client experience really well like who who do you look at right now in the market and say like hey they're they're a shining example of what it can be actually if you look at Peloton in and the digital world the the thing the things they do well is they've designed a piece of equipment that is that does not need very much maintenance it's sturdy it's sleek you can fit it anywhere in your house somebody comes and helps you set it up it doesn't need constant adjustments um we had the experience of um interacting with a Peloton competitor and um we the bike arrived and it was sitting downstairs in our lobby in a box we didn't even know it was there I had to find a way to get it up a flight of stairs into the elevator into um our apartment and then I spent an hour and a half assembling it myself trying to figure out how to put it together.

A lot of the pieces are it was really heavy but then a lot of the really important like the movable parts were plastic and really really cheap.

So and client experience comes down to just the most subtle of details and Peloton has impossible to connect to the app steps. Yeah um that make it very easy for someone to get on the bike and enjoy it and it it really comes down to that and Peloton has found that success because they've gotten very clear on the attention and we can see that in any other studio too um you know I just interviewed um um from CrossFit Modulus in Las Vegas. Oh Ray. Help me out Ray uh had an incredible conversation with him and he's mind blowing I haven't been there but he's clearly doing it right as well providing a very bespoke experience for all of his clients coming in.

So I think we see these shining examples um but even looking outside of the industry because I we think about this all the time now we're we're kind of snobs it doesn't matter if we go to a restaurant or have a shopping experience uh we tried to buy we were trying to find a uh an outfit for a wedding and we went to a a very very famous well-known uh menswear store that I will not mention and I basically was doing their job uh they could the you know they just couldn't find the right thing and said it didn't exist and I said this is it right here and then I started picking out clothes for other dudes like I just I couldn't help it I was like I'll do your job I'll do it for free for the next hour while I'm here Barry's trying on pants I can help you put an outfit together I mean how hard is it um but I think you know when you look to some of the like those industry standards like um uh like Ritz Carlton or Four Seasons incredible client experience the way you're greeted when you come in uh we stayed at the Four Seasons with my dog and they because I said I was coming with a dog they asked his name they knew that James was coming in they have treats for him in their pocket um they remember your name I don't know how they do it but there's hundreds of thousands of people staying in the hotel and uh you you come out of the elevator how are you doing today Mr. Ennis I mean it's just incredible the lengths that they go to Intercontinental is another one that does everything I used to teach classes there. So even at the gym and you're taught um you're indoctrined into the culture you spend four days with HR before you're ever allowed to set foot on the floor and um it's you you're taught everything from how to interact with your peers and your colleagues, when to make eye contact, when to speak, how to treat the clients like even if it's not your job always walking them somewhere instead of pointing things like that. So this is what creates this VIP experience that people are willing to spend more money on and that we'll come back to over and over again. Nordstroms is famous for their customer service. It was the only place my grandmother shopped for years everybody knew her name they knew what we liked they remember the products that you um that you buy frequently anthropology is another really great brand where they're never selling you anything and the whole shopping experience is like going on a trip to another country right and that's their whole there's a really great article about them actually online and and how you'll never see a a you know two for one jeans like that's not part of their thing they they want the their client which their ICA their ideal client avatar is so clear. They know exactly what she wants they know who she is they know what she ate for breakfast they know where she's going on vacation and so everything speaks to that and this is something that is missing in fitness. So I bring up these other brands that have been around for years and years and years because in our industry we see businesses pop up and die. I can't tell you how many apps I have been on that have gone nowhere. I have done full on videos and programming for something like 10 apps that you've never heard of. They born and they die born and die. And the same is with studios if they don't do this work they close within two and a half years guaranteed every single time.

And you know what it doesn't matter if you are a huge brand name I've been into SoulCycle studios where I don't get any eye contact or acknowledgement from the front desk when I walk in and guess what? That's my first interaction I don't want to go back to that studio. Right. So it doesn't matter how big or how small you are if you get really good at this you're going to find success.

Yeah yeah Apple Store there is actually Apple Store is amazing. They actually got their model from Ritz. Yeah yeah yeah which I I read this article years ago and that that was fascinating to me. So how do you guys see I mean obviously technology now is becoming a huge part of client experience I think if you look at any of the major um boutique gym franchises they all have some part of tech right whether it be at least a heart rate monitor at the minimum to some sort of like you know like F-45 has their DJ experience and they have you know the TVs and they have all that going and that's that's obviously a big part of it now. Where what trends are you size seeing in the in the tech and how is that starting to become an even bigger part?

So I think the first thing to mention is that it needs to it needs to enhance the experience that you're already creating. It is the tool to uh emphasis on a tool. It's a tool to help your business or help your clients it is not your business model which I think a lot of people get confused on um I really always new tech coming out it's easy to and they're and they're reaching out to you as a professional or a studio owner and encouraging you to adopt their their tech but you have to not just chase the shiny things make sure it's enhancing so we see so what I what I see a lot is um like very very simple stuff like what Rumble's doing with the projections on the wall a lot of studios want that now and so like my clients come to me my fitness boxing clients yeah we gotta have the projections like well do you do you have what is that explain that because I'm not familiar with that. So Rumble is a basically a boxing hit workout and the room is divided in two and so therefore the coach is responsible for two completely different workouts happening at the same time much like Barry's boot camp yeah where half the people are on treads and then half the people are on the floor lifting weights. So what they've done because the room is dark and the music's really loud is they have projectors on the back of the the back of the room that tell you what I love I'm pointing at my own ceiling that uh that tell you what's happening in the round. So on the boxing side it'll tell you the combo and on the other side it'll tell you, you know, if you're doing um you know curl to press on the floor. Curl to press on the floor or if it's an AMRAP or an emotion for the time given like what those exercises are and how you move through them. So then everybody's like yeah I want projections and it's like well is it necessary how what how many things are happening in the room you know so you just have to ask yourself are you doing it because it's available and it's cool and because Rumble does it or are you doing it because it genuinely serves a purpose in the room and it's going to help your clients and stay like it's gonna help your clients stay connected in the workout and it's gonna help your trainer manage the room. There's also where we worked at in China uh like video mapping which is you know a huge immersive experience and Les Mills does it in a whole other way where they have their ride it's called the trip and you're you're base we went to a ride we were in some kind of crazy futuristic Egypt flying through pyramids in space it was so cool.

You know it's like a California adventure where if you if anybody's ever been on that ride you just kind of soaring over California in front of a giant IMAX screen yeah oh how cool I've never done that I want to do that.

Yeah so uh Les Mills has has that technology and there are other people that do full-on video mapping so whether it's abstract or you're in space or something that just helps enhance the experience of the workout.

We were also uh at a conference in Florida and we um went to a a talk by this by this guy who's doing a lot of tech in studios and one of their main um offerings is they have these interactive screens that you can install at different points through your studio. And this is something I feel everybody could do. Yeah maybe but I remember one of the things he said is you have to make sure that there's proper information and stuff on the screen to make people want to engage otherwise they're not going to do it.

It's just it you you've wasted your money and it's just a distraction in the studio. So we've all seen this when you walk in sometimes a studio will have a a TV screen on the wall you know and they'll put up maybe a class schedule or an upcoming event yeah or a package they're selling.

Yeah.

And so it's like a news board but really they're kind of just using it as advertising as advertising space. They're just words.

Words so hard.

But they're just they're using it as a way to sell the stuff that they're that sell their products. But there's so many other ways that you could be using that space.

One of the best examples he gave was there's a studio in New York they displayed the the subway schedule on one of those screens right next to the door. So that was huge for enhancing the client experience they come out of class they're able to check the schedule before they jump into the shower so they know they're not going to miss their train they get to where they're going to next on time.

There's so many other other features that you could provide for your clients uh can they check uh the weather if you live in uh an area like Chicago you know where it can be really crazy and intense neither of these examples would make sense in LA where there are no subways and no weather so right but traffic patterns let's say you know like what's the freeway looking like right now like am I going to make it to work on time do I have time to take a shower before I walk out the door of the studio or blow dry my hair you know that that makes like a big difference to people and that's an added value. I love going to the studio because I always this board gives me information that helps me plan my day and manage my time.

Yeah you know then there's like a whole other side of tech with like metrics and data to help incentivize clients and uh give them a way to reach certain goals and gamify the workouts and provide a more personalized experience to them.

But again it needs to make sense with your programming and it needs to make sense for your clientele it has to be something that they want um I had a client another fitness boxing studio that was like we so our differentiator is their one differentiator is going to be we're going to incorporate heart rate monitors okay well let's talk about it because they've got to pick up wraps gloves water towel heart rate monitor it's a lot of stuff to have on your hands uh the room is dark we're boxing to with music and uh and then what kind of how what technology are we having in the room are we getting instant feedback like is there a board like what you see at Orange Theory or is this a readout that you get at after class both are val valuable how distracting is this going to be to this particular workout and is it necessary also is it effective can we is it worth tracking our heart rate in a fitness boxing class maybe maybe not so we have to test it out and then get all the way back to I always go back to what is the client's core value and what is their mission for the studio. How important is this really is part of your mission that we offer cutting edge technology and we and data tracking if that's not in your core values of your business what is they can go find it somewhere else you know so eventually we scrapped it. It was not part of their like it wasn't in their heart. It was like we're gonna grab at something that makes us different and that's fine. I think it's totally fine to say other people aren't doing this can we do this or everybody's doing this cool thing maybe we can do that. But then you really have to check back into does this really make sense for our brand or are we just doing it because that's because technology is hot right now. And when there's so many different ways to do it we've already mentioned five you could have projections on the wall you could have video mapping it could be in uh the your screens that you have in the studio that share information it could be a way that you engage in social media there's there's so many different different ways you you could have some body metrics testing before you come to classes and additional offering to keep people on track. Does that make sense with your workout? Is that the focus?

Is that what your clients are coming in for yeah yeah yeah there's there's a lot I mean there's tech flying at us from every direction I think he he makes such good points as like well let's take a step back this actually makes sense for what we're trying to achieve and that's it right like and who am I trying to help?

And uh is it easy and can you can it easily be integrated into what you're doing if it's something new. You know if it's going to require you to overhaul your whole backend system is that worth it for you right now how financially successful are you? How fast are you growing like take a look at some of the other factors before um we were talking with another client who wanted to integrate some new uh data tracking technology but their their website and the whole back end software system couldn't support it. So then they've got to spend thousands of dollars not only do they have to invest in the data tracking itself and then the equipment that goes in the room but now all of the software on the back end they have to overhaul their website maybe change their CRR CRM system so that those two things can talk to each other can talk to each other. Yeah right and and is that really did you did you survey your clients did they even want it do they care?

Yeah yeah oh my God the number of times where they don't even do that is is shocking.

Yeah this is cool as happening right now they'll like it we'll put in put it in I like it they'll like it right that's kind of the thing uh oh no you'll learn really fast the clients will freak out when you change something even if it's good for them yeah that they'll freak out so you gotta make sure they want it.

Yeah yeah absolutely well yeah this is um really really insightful I I really enjoy the way that you guys approach things you know what I mean like it's a good it's a good solid approach. Um give give our audience some insights like where they find you is there anything you guys want to offer them let them let them know.

Yeah well we wanted to before we leave super quick we quick we just wanted to give you guys a few tips as you're listening to this stuff and you're digesting it and you're thinking how does this apply to me what do I do with this information? Yeah I think that it's super simple like I think it's four steps. The the first step is to always check in with yourself and your your brand's mission and core values. And if you don't know what that means you missed a major major step that is like integral to how you operate and your growth you can call us we can help you with that it's something we're really really passionate about I think you can tell you go to fitnesscareermastery.com slash brandbuilding we have a free worksheet that will help you get really clear on that. We have an episode on on core values and and why those are important. So always always just go back to the to the foundation where you started from and why you're doing this and who your clients are and what they want. And the next step is to check in with your clients.

If you're a business owner you're gonna want to survey your clients at least quarterly to check in and make sure that you're providing the kind of experience that they want that you're um providing a solution for their main pain points and problems and if there's anything you need to tweak in order to align yourself better with simple questions.

Where are we excelling? Where are we falling short? What do you love? What do you not love? What what would you like to see in the studio that we don't currently offer um you might think that it's heart rate monitors and they might say I'd love a food delivery service.

Yeah.

They might say wouldn't it be fun to have Sunday brunch for the workout you'll be surprised you know what they want. So and that's really important we we do that we survey our our clients and our guests all the time.

And just want to make a note here it's not enough to look at class reviews on ClassPass or Yelp or something like that because those are always the outliers the people that are super unhappy with your experience or the ones that are over the top and you want to find out the people that are in between.

Yeah. And then the third step step would be to check in with your team just you know have a team meeting I'm shocked at how many uh studio owners or business owners uh don't have monthly or bi-monthly meetings or even quarterly they're like meeting once a year and then like all of these expectations are set and they don't understand why nobody's meeting them. It's so important to just sit down and communicate and get really really clear on what your objectives whether it's KPIs or you know whatever it is that you want to achieve as a team and just asking them are they happy are they healthy at work? You can also survey them if you use something like gusto as a as your payroll it's really easy to do that. They'll send out surveys for you and the response it's always anonymous or you can do it yourself anonymous surveys for your team I think work best so that people will speak candidly.

Clearly we're a fan of surveys.

Yeah but like let your let your team know that you're open to feedback. They've got eyes and ears and feet on the ground they're hearing about what's cool and so maybe they'll have a solution or an idea that really works for you. And I think making sure that they feel heard. So listening to them doesn't mean that you have to take action on everything, but just know that like there's a place for them to share their thoughts.

Yeah. And then once all that's done you going back and check in with yourself again uh you you have a lot more information now uh how does it all align with you and your core values and your mission.

Yeah so if you're really looking to quote unquote Peloton that shit right it's like check in with your like is that what we really want to do? Is that what we need right now? Do my clients want it are is my team on board after I gather this information does this really right for me if the answer's yes then you go for it. If the answers you don't know then it's a no it needs to be a hell yes it needs to be 100% we're moving forward on this everybody is on board you as a whether you're a trade a personal trainer and you own your business or an online business or a brick and mortar studio like you're not one person. There's so many people involved so absolutely yeah that's it that's our that's our takeaway for the day is is just those those little check ins you know going over your the the touch points uh that was another one we the the last thing is every once in a while just stop and slow down and take a look at your touch points the

That your clients go through.

Yeah. From the second they from signing up from being at home and thinking about signing up for class. It you know how how your website operates and what that looks like for them to walking in the door, what music is playing in the lobby. Love of God, please do not play scrycks at 7 30 in the morning.

Right.

I'm traumatized by scrycs.

It's really, it's I love scrycks, but not in the lobby or the bathroom at 7 a.m.

Please.

Um, people don't think about this. It's so important. Yeah. Um, yeah, like what's happening in the bathroom? What's happening in the locker rooms? What's happening in the hallways? What's the flow like? Um, is the technology, are your tools helping your clients, or is there a disconnect there? And then the class programming and all of that to long after they leave the studio and um, you know, how how they're gonna feel afterwards and how you connect with them again.

And how can you continually refine to make that a more meaningful experience for them?

So um I think that's that's a big one, and that's where you can start to fill in those holes. Like, oh, do I I you know, at my 530 classes are so full, I actually need to automate some stuff. We need to get some iPads and people need to be able to check in themselves so that I can spend more time helping new clients and um you just managing traffic flow and with uh old clients. Yeah, and and I it frees me up so that I can stop and say hello or answer a question instead of what's your name, what's your shoe side or whatever? But do I need that kind of automization? Do I need that technology at like a 12 p.m. class? Am I sitting, is my front desk associate just sitting behind the desk on their cell phone while five people come in and check in on an iPad? No, put the iPad away, speak to them. Yeah, when the 50 people walk in the door, bust out the iPads, right? Figure out where technology is gonna help you rather than like completely like separate you from your clients, which we see a lot.

Yeah, yeah. Fantastic, you guys. Go ahead, go ahead, finish it off. In terms of where to find us, um looping back to that, uh, you can go to fitnesscareermastery.com. We have tons of resources there. You can see all of our podcast episodes. Uh, you can join our community at fitnesscareermastery.com slash community. We have listeners um and clients from all over the world, and you can find like-minded professionals like yourself to um connect with and network with and help you level up in your career. And then um, we're on Instagram at fitnesscareer mastery.

So everything is fitness career mastery. Yeah, yeah. And you can email us from any of those places. You can find out where please reach out, reach us directly.

Yeah, great stuff, you guys. Awesome. My poor wife, I'm gonna everything we do now, it's gonna be both pellet on that shit. It's just gonna be like, yeah, thanks, Barry and Shay, for everything. Uh well, you guys, awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. Obviously, you guys um think deeply about what you're trying to do and where the fitness industry is going. So you're one of the good guys, or two of the good guys, guys and girl. Um great to have you. And um, thanks for having us, Eric. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we'll be talking soon.

Oh, this was great. Thank you so much.

You got it. Hey fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask. Actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I asked you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us. It's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel or Fitness Marketing Alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge, that's a big deal for us, and we're we put a lot of work into these episodes, uh, trying to give you great actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at Fitness Marketing Alliance.com