The Fitness Selling Expert - Ryan McKenzie

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, where we talk with entrepreneurs, researchers, and practitioners in fitness, wellness, and the health sciences. I'd like to give a big thanks to our sponsors, Level 5 Mentors, helping entrepreneurs achieve the highest levels of freedom in time, money, relationships, health, and purpose. Also, Certified Course Creation, helping entrepreneurs create accredited online certifications that are not only lucrative but highly scalable. Go to level5mentors.com or certifiedcoursecreation.com and learn more. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and once again, welcome to the future of fitness. Boom, we're live. Ryan McKenzie, welcome. It's good to be here. Yeah, man. So many great conversations with you over the past few months, and I'm I'm really fired up to have you on the show. And uh your journey is special, the you know, value that you bring to the the market, and especially in the you know, for the personal trainer, small group trainer, health club uh audience is is well known. I've actually um had a couple of my listeners ask me if I knew you yet, and I was like, yeah, that's awesome. I know, Ryan. Uh so Ryan, give us all uh a little backstory on on who you are and kind of how you got to where you are now.

Oh man. Well I was born in Orlando, Florida. I um I uh I started in the fitness industry as a personal trainer right out of college and really bad at it, man. Like just like I knew how to make people sweat and throw up because I was a c college athlete. I played baseball at Rollins College, a little division two school here in in Winter Park. I had my one of our coaches there was like, man, I think you'd be good at this. One of our trainers that I I went to over the summer to work with is like you should come try to our gym and and interview. So I did like it's like the first person there that they interviewed and hired that didn't have a degree in a fitness, the fitness industry at all, like in a fitness-related field, like anatomy physiology. Like I knew none of that stuff starting off. So this is like discrediting me from the start. Like I don't know any anatomy and physiology when I when I started, I didn't. I just knew how to work hard, I knew how to be an underdog, and like get I was never the guy that was gonna be the big thing, you know, sports, whatever. So I I started working at this gym in Orlando, RDV Sportsplex, best gym that I've ever been to in my life, honestly. It really closely connected with the Orlando Magic, Florida Hospital, like all these big brains of people training big name athletes and lots of rehab, lots of other stuff. So I worked with some of the best trainers I still to this day have ever met in my entire life, which is really cool to be a part of as somebody who knew nothing. So I'm sitting there soaking it all in, learning and learning how they're running their business, how they're helping people all along, making no money because I don't know what I'm doing, just trying to figure it out along the way. And that was the start. So I don't know where you want to go from there, but that's where it all started, and it was still growing. But it's uh it's really fun ride, except for the first, you know, after three months in, you realize I actually have to make money. I can't just love this only. I have to make money for my wife, and we are having a baby pretty soon. Newly married, by the way, baby on the way. Like, um, I think we got married in January, had our son in uh his birthday's in November. So it's real quick. We got we got a family, you know. Not just I'm not just a college kid anymore, I've got a full family, so it can't just be about only having fun and learning cool stuff that I didn't know before, but I've actually got to make this a business and make this thing work. So that's that's been something I've heard from a lot of people has resonated with their story. Like, how do I actually make this fitness thing that I love pay me and work for me and not not just be a fun thing that I'm doing, you know, but make it work for me.

Yeah. And that's uh growing up's hard, man. You know, you gotta uh you gotta figure it out, right? And I I think, you know, when I when I hear stories like yours, well, you know, it's it's unique, but you know, in the same line of things, I I always appreciate people who spent the time in the trenches because a lot of people want to skip that phase. You know, like, hey, you actually gotta get a phase. Yeah, right. Uh and it's it's true, you get a lot of I mean, I didn't besides athletics and being trained as an athlete, like when I got into coaching people, I didn't really I didn't know anything about anatomy. I knew the basics, you know, I knew some things like that. I had to go learn it all, but just knowing, you know, having the I think there's some there's certain things in in the other podcast that I had, uh Fitness Blitz Radio, I asked people all the time, like, what do you think, what are what do you think are the qualities that makes people successful in this industry? And I asked that question 370 times, 370 different people. And, you know, the overwhelming answer came into words like grit, tenacity, persistence, stick toitiveness, right? That's that's ultimately what guides you in success in just about everything in your life. So I mean it sounds like you had that quality going into it. So tell me, you know, as as you walked into this journey, you know, how did you make a transition from, you know, one-on-one or or personal training into where you are now? How did that whole thing go? Because I think a lot of people are gonna want to know that.

Yeah, that's a great question. I um I slowly got better at what I was doing, dove into a lot of you know, I actually I don't know that I dove into certifications. I I'm certified in like FMS, as high as you can be, per uh Parisi Speed School, um all all these different TRX, all everything in Asm all the way through, all this, all the stuff. I could whatever, I could list them later. But the none of that really helped me build my business. It made me more confident what I was doing. It made me a better trainer, but I really dove hard into okay, I just it just clicked it. Okay, this is a sales job, you know. Like I'm not just out here helping people move better and get in shape. I I am, but I'm having to sell them on signing up with me and then sell them again on why they should use the sessions they bought with me and then resell them to sign back up again. Like it was just it really hit hard that I was not prepared for a sales job. I was prepared to work out with people and have fun with people, but like that process of sales, I dove into that really hard. Um, that grew my one-on-one training a lot to the point where uh we were got we went from worrying about money to worrying about, okay, are you ever gonna be home? And I think those are the two places most trainers are right now is I'm not making anything in this industry or I've got no time for life outside of this. If you're really a full-time trainer and you're doing one-on-ones from 6 a.m. to to 2 p.m. And then from two to four, you kind of got some downtime to yourself, maybe. And then from four to seven, you're you're packed solid again. Um, I was getting to that world and now we got a second kid on the way, and my son is all like two, almost three, you know, and it's like my wife's like, okay, your family needs you. You've grown this, we're making a little bit of money. It's okay. I don't have to work anymore, but are you gonna be home? We got church stuff outside of that we're doing too. So we're busy life. It just hit me. I walked into my manager's office one day and said, All right, Nikki, I'm uh I'm done with one-on-one training. I'm not doing it anymore. Um, if people want to train me one-on-one, maybe, maybe I'll let them do half hours, but everybody else, I'll put them in groups. I don't even care anymore. I'll put them in groups. They're gonna have she said, Well, hey Ryan, pump the brakes. Let's figure out a way to communicate that and actually make a strategy around it because I think it might be a good idea. But at that point in time, it was um, shoot, that was 2010, 2009. And I had never heard of anybody really doing groups other than group exercise, like big groups, like small group training is a big hot topic thing right now, but uh maybe two years ago I really started hearing about it a lot. That's when we really started to like push it at our club, and like it lit on fire for me to where I had groups of just all different types of people. And before it was like, okay, well, I got a husband and wife, that was that was group training or semi-private training. I've got two friends, and we we grew groups, six, seven, eight people where we were actually like working on stuff and training them, not just putting them through some workout that we somebody found online or some big group class. It was specific training. We we got a whole process and system down of how to train people in a really great way. And that grew even bigger for me, which is really, really cool. So I ended up through that becoming the top selling trainer in all of the clubs for that company, which was nationwide, which is really like it felt like three years before, four years before, I was like, how the heck am I gonna feed my family tonight? And I just kind of kept like you said that stick to it as I just kept digging in and digging in, like, okay, I know I need to learn how to sell. Let's learn that first. Because I can teach someone a squat and a push and a pull. I'll just keep those basic things that I know and learn how to really communicate that well. Now I'm getting so busy, I need to become a better trainer. So I did some certifications and I need to actually rework my business so that I can have a family life and actually do the things that I love to do with my family as well. Otherwise, I'm gonna burn out. So, how do we rework that business? That grew it even more, which made me want to go get more certifications. So I think the the knowledge of training definitely is an important part, but I think most people put that in way too soon and they think I've got to know everything about every part of training and anatomy before I can be successful in this industry. If you can teach a good squat and a good hinge, you can teach a good push and a good pull, and you can kind of coach their cardio a little bit or just kind of help them with some healthy eat eating habits a little bit, and you can be the most successful trainer in the world. Like it's really simple stuff that people need.

Yeah, and it's it it usually just comes down to how do you help people uh recognize and change behavior. And that's the core of what we do, right? I mean, everything's habits, and our whole life is just we're just one big, you know, walking bag of habits.

Right.

And that's that's the biggest thing a lot of people miss too is you can continue to take all these certifications if you thirst for knowledge, which I did too. I I took a ton of certs, right? I took a lot of really fun, fun stuff and and pursued that because I I love learning. And I think a lot of people in the industry get into it because they do love learning and they find that this is a specific area they really want to dive into. But hey man, you you gotta you can be the best trainer in the world, but if you don't have any clients, it doesn't matter. So there we are, right? Yeah, I think that's key in the you know it's funny because I you I came from the CrossFit background and I think CrossFit's known for group classes, right? Large group classes. Right. The founder, Greg Glassman, actually started all personal training and then moved people into small group training. I don't know, I from from what I know and the things I've heard, the things I've read, unless you know, Greg, you're listening to this and you're like, no, Eric, that's wrong. I don't think he ever had large group classes. That's something that someone else adopted along the way. And I think you know, you look at it from a couple different angles, and this is why I think you're in a very unique place in the market right now is that you know, you have a lot of people who are doing one-on-one training and they resonate with the story you're talking about. Like, hey, that that's a high likelihood for burnout, right? High likelihood for just not having time for anything else because you're truly just trading time for money at that point.

If you can find enough people to fill the spots and you're good enough at it, then you get burnt out. Like, but it's either I can't find the people and I because you don't know how to communicate your message, but then once you get good at communicating your message, then it's like I don't have enough spots for anybody, and and you're turning people away. It's like, why? That's money walking away. Those are lives I could change walking away, and it just doesn't line up. Like I'm not making money, they're not getting help, and I'm burnt out. It's like something had to change for me. I've met a ton of trainers that they're happy, just these are my 10 clients, and I have them all three days a week. I got 30 hours of training, whatever it is. But then you got somebody goes out of town, and all of a sudden you're down to like that. That was another big point for me, is I I was training uh a family and a husband, wife, and uh a daughter, and then like we're going on a month vacation. I was like, awesome, see you guys when you get back. And I realized I trained the mom and dad separately for two to three hours a week each. I trained this the the daughter two hours a week. So all of a sudden I went from like being packed to like, whoa, that was a big chunk of my pay right there, where I just is gone and a big chunk of my time, but I can't really fill it because they're gonna be back in a month. So how does this all those things mixing together like really got my how do I change this to where I can actually really help people, but really keep my business rolling when those kind of things happen, when people get sick or they go to town or whatever else? I don't that that's it doesn't work one-on-one in my mind. So that's why I went to that.

And and how long do people really stick with personal training? I mean, if if it's at a price point, let's say, you know, most are somewhere between $50 to $100 an hour. Right. How many people are really going to stick with three personal training sessions per week for the next five years? Usually it's it's kind of a come and go, and and you lose one client, that's a big chunk of money. And then on on the other side, we have the group class model, the large group class model where you know it's really you have you can like if you've been in, if you coach in these classes, you look around, you're like, I'd really love to give that person some more personal attention because they need some help. Or maybe they shouldn't be in this group class, right? Because you know, they have vulgous knees or whatever it may be, and you need to fix some things. So there's also that side where they're like, well, you know, we can't get everyone into personal training, but there's got to be somewhere in the middle. And I think that's where group training's great. Like, okay, so small group training, like how do you define small group training?

So for me, the sweet spot for small group training is three to eight people. You get any, you can maybe make that work to 10. You get any more than that, and you're kind of in a boot camp, large group setting, in my mind. Any less than three? I mean, two is great, but in my mind, that's the one point where I say that's semi-private, that's not really a small group, because if one person misses, you no longer have a group anymore. You've got one person you're training, and then there's that weird conversation that, hey, well, I know we normally have this price, but today it's just you. So either I have to take the cut or you got to pay me more. So the sweet spot for me is that three to eight, and then we want to have a higher price point than you would for uh you know, a $10, $25, let's show up for the day boot camp. We want to have something that is actually a commitment on their part where we can do a high-end small group where it is still specific to the person and still the attention of one-on-one is possible, but the um the camaraderie and the community of of a group is added to that as well. Because, you know, I found over the years when you start finding the clients, because you know, basically a one-on-one trainer's life is like you said, cycle through clients who can't afford you until you slowly find, oh, there's one and he can afford me. And then I'll cycle through clients. Oh, there's two, I've got three, four, now five clients that can afford me forever because they make tons of money and I'm their trainer, and that's great. But you're cycling through until you find those people who quit, quit, or stay, stay, and you're trying to keep them going. But with those people that make that kind of money, if they've got something with their family or something with their business that comes up, it's gonna cost them more than $50 to $100 an hour to not work on that project, right? That is more important than the price. And once they've paid, like Eric, here's my hundred dollars for the for the session, here's my fifteen hundred dollars for the month, whatever it might be one-on-one. Um, that money's gone to them. Those sessions are no longer worth that in their mind. It's not like they're showing up every day with a hundred dollar bill handing it to you. That's a bad model if you're doing that. Stop doing that right now, by the way. Uh but it doesn't cost that to them anymore. They've paid one time, it's gone. Now the the payment is showing up and working hard and sweating and missing out on what else I could be doing. So if something's gonna cost me $3,000 or I've got a million dollar deal on the table, and it's one-on-one, it's like, well, I've already paid Ryan, he's good. Um, I gotta work on this over here. So that's when those people start missing, is because something else is more valuable or more important to them, and they don't want to miss out on that money. But when you go to small group, to get back to your question here, when you go to a small group and I've got a I if I'm the client and I'm coming in and I've got some big deal on the table or something big with my family or something else going on that costs more than the hundred dollars for the hour. I say, you know, actually I told Eric and I told John and I told Steve I'd be there. And that's a deeper connection than I told Ryan I'd be there because I paid him already, you know, like they don't have to feel bad about missing out on me because I've already charged them. I'm getting paid. They don't feel that bad about missing out because, well, he's got my money, he's gonna charge me for the session. I'll just tell him to charge me for the session. And then the trainer's mind, you're like, okay, win. I get a free hour and I've already got paid. But that's the start of a deterioration of the relationship and of the business where other things are more important. So I saw that happening in my business and I saw it happen in a lot of the trainers' businesses around me where like we had people that could pay and they had no problem paying so much so that they didn't have a problem missing either. So you put them in a group, and now there's a different level of accountability between peers rather than financial accountability, it's peer accountability, and that makes such a huge difference on their stick-to-it-ness, right? Or their on their like ability to keep going rather than just I'm keeping you accountable because you paid me. You know, that's changes everything.

Plus, that's that's exhausting as a trainer too, and you always have to hold people accountable and you can feel it, right? The energy between the two. And I always found, and maybe maybe it's because I'm actually introverted, but that you know, working with people one-on-one gets really tiring after a certain period of time. Because you're like it's like kind of the same kind of well, how's you know, how's your daughter? How's it how's she doing in college? And you see that game, yeah.

And the weather, the weather today is wild.

Yeah, can you believe this? Yeah, this is crazy. And then uh, you know, then it turns into one-on-one therapy sessions at times too, which uh is very exhausting. And I think so. When people are looking at small group training, I think the case, I think we've we've clearly made a case. I don't think it was really necessary to make a case for small group training because I I just think it's the optimal for everybody, right? Everybody's winning in that scenario. Where, Ryan, where where do you think most trainers go wrong in selling group small group training?

That's a good question. I can tell you where I went wrong. Okay. And then I I've seen this now with some of the things people I'm talking to and people I'm helping now, where the where the tendency to go wrong, and I think it's I don't think I'm any different here, but they lead with the the benefit or the value of small group training being that it's a cheaper price. And that's just to be I can explain that a bit in a way. Basically, if most trainers think the reason they should go to small group training is because most people can't afford one-on-one training, right? And so they set small group training up not as the best thing that they offer, but as a cheaper option that they offer. And no matter if you can afford it or not, nobody really wants deep down, they don't really want the cheaper option, you know? You want the better option or the best option. There's nobody out there that's saying, man, where's the cheapest doctor I can go to? You know, like where's the what's the cheapest dentist around? Like you might want to pay a let a lower price, but like you would never ask that question because you care about your body or your teeth, or you care about like what's the absolute cheapest thing, cheapest car I can buy? Like this thing might fall apart. Like, no one really wants that. You might need to do that for a time in your life where you can't afford something, but if you had the money, you would want the best thing or the best thing for the money. And um, I think that's where people go wrong with training, is they position their small group training as the cheapest option that they have or a cheaper option that they have rather than this is the best thing I have. Oh, by the way, it also costs less. That's a completely different conversation. It might sound the same, but when you word it like, hey, this is the cheapest thing I do, it's really great. You can you can get in here for uh half the price or whatever you're whatever you're charging. I've got thoughts on pricing too, but whatever you're this is the price, and it's so much cheaper, and it's really great. It's also really great. It's really great when it trained as a completely different sell or completely different conversation than this is the best thing you can do, the accountability, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the benefits you want to you want to have for them when however you train. Oh, by the way, it's gonna save you some money in the long run, too. Like that saying the same two things, benefits of the training and the price of the training, but the way you position it and the order you put it in changes everything. Um, so I think most trainers are afraid to sell a high, um, a higher priced option because they can't afford it themselves. The clients they've had in the past have left because it's too expensive. Quotes. Um, when really too expensive could mean anything. Like I mean, compared to the last trainer I had, compared to how much I care about myself, compared to how much money I make, it could be compared to any expensive is a very relative term, and most people hear it and say, Oh, so I can lower my prices. And that's not always the case. So that's where they go wrong. Uh 99% of the time, that's where I went wrong when I started. I was like, had some trouble getting people in groups at the beginning because I would talk about like, hey, we're gonna do a cheaper thing. And I realized all of these people aren't here because I'm cheap. They're here because this is the best gym in Orlando and they're willing to pay for the best. So let's focus on the best and not just the cheapest.

Yeah. Well, it's it's you you focus on value, right? And I think there's a couple key things in there is we you know, when I work with, you know, primarily if I'm gonna work with people nowadays, it's probably gonna be at least a gym owner or somebody. And then when I get to work with their staff a little bit, there's always that the thing of money comes up. You know, well, I think people are leaving because, you know, we're not retaining people because of price. Like, no, that's not it. I guarantee it. You're just pushing that thought upon people because you know that you probably couldn't afford a membership at this gym or it puts you in a very stretched position, right? Uh a question I used to ask people when they came in for their initial consultation was always, um, what's your what's your fitness or health budget per month? And they'd be like, what do you mean? You know, how much are you willing to invest in in your fitness and health every month to to stay healthy and and get your your goal? We just talked about all these goals, you know, how much are you willing to invest? And then it starts to get into like, oh, it's an investment, it's value. Okay, great. Well, I'm you know, I think I could have, you know, I'd like to put $300 a month towards my fitness. Oh, great. Well, here's what I suggest. You know, this is the best value for you, right? At that price point. And then people are like, okay, now they're starting to get it. Like, this is an investment, this is value. This isn't, you know, if you want cheap, and I would always say, hey, I can find you cheap. It's just three blocks down the street. That's right.

Right.

You know, I'm just not gonna do that. So I think it's a really interesting play. And I think that mindset is is something that you almost have to work through on your own to kind of get to that point. But having someone like you, you know, teach people that is is is critical. Right. How are you what what's the mechanism in which you are teaching what you've learned in your systems to other health club owners, to personal trainers? How how are you actually delivering your knowledge?

That's a great question. I agree with what you're saying though, a lot about, you know, just that investment mindset is really, is really key. That's huge. And I think the same thing holds true with a lot of people I work with. Like, are we just running a business because I like to train people, or am I like investing my time and my money and my my life into growing this thing? You know, and that's that's the same kind of thing. Um, so the people that I work with are uh gym owners and personal trainers, and uh it's everything. I mean, the two two big ways I do it is I I love getting face to face with somebody. So either Zoom calls or in-person meetings where we're working out like here's what the business looks like and actually walking through like how to lay this thing out the right way. Not everybody can do that, just like the same thing in a gym, in a gym model. I guess not everybody can do the one-on-one of the small groups. You have other options too. So I I basically had the same conversation over and over again with a lot of people that was helping out and end up taking that content for sales and for small group training and putting it into a couple courses. So my two big things now are have a sales course for personal trainers or gym owners and their team and have a small group training course. Like, how do we take large groups and one-on-ones and pull the right people from each and make a profitable small group training? Um, so on one side, it's how do we get really great at actual communicating our value and how do we actually walk through the sales process the right way? That's very similar to my book, but like uh the book, like the deep dive on steroids, like it's like really intense um six weeks of sales. And then the the small group is how do we actually step by step turn my business from a one on one trainer or a boot camp style trainer and bring it into a small. group. So it's years of conversations with people and experience for myself on how I did it and how others are doing it and right there for you at your own pace. So it's been really it's been really cool.

Yeah. It is really cool. And and give us a telly of your book too. Oh yeah.

So the book, that's right. I hate selling is the name of the book. I hate selling I hate selling for the fitness professional. So it's um it's actually if you want to get it for free, I I give the ebook away so you don't have to buy an ebook. But if you want the uh the hard copy it's on Amazon like anywhere else. But the ebook is on my website, I hate sellingbook.com. I hate selling book.com. Yeah, that's it.

Right on. So Brian, you've done what a lot of fitness professionals want to do but have not done yet. And that's kind of taking all this experience, time in the trenches, right? Doing the work, figuring it out. And now you're you're you essentially solved your own problem. Right. And now you're leveling up by helping and creating a bigger impact by helping other fitness professionals with that problem. And it's very entrepreneurial by nature, right? So you've you've you've gone from technician to entrepreneur if you look at like the emyth terms. And I think it's really cool. I think why walk us through that journey at what point did you realize like what point did the light bulb go off? You're like, you know what? I I can do something else with this knowledge. I don't I don't have to stay in the same path. You can if you want you can always go back I'm I think you still do training right you can always go back to that. But then you had you at some point I guarantee you had a light bulb moment you're like wait this is something that people need in the market.

Yeah it was um it was pretty big honestly because I didn't set out to write a book I set out to learn the stuff because I was bad at it. So like it went from like this like I need this my wife and I are we we lead children's church on Sundays right I think I was telling you this a while ago but like one of I think my biggest my one of my biggest skills or that I've developed one of one of the things that I think one of my biggest strengths is taking a complicated idea or process and making it really simple which is like talking to kids you know so over the last 10-15 years talking to kids I've really used that a lot in my in my business as well. It's like it's grown me to think like a child which is wild to think about. It it really went from like this idea of okay I need this to my manager recognizing wow you've doubled your revenue in the last quarter and then again and then the last year and then again and it doubled again and then double like four years in a row it doubled. Which so they're like what are you doing? I was like I'm reading this I'm studying this and reading this here's my notes like will you teach a team meeting next time so we we talked through it. I had from that point on I felt I had this really like you know voice in the back of your head that you're just like this needs to happen. I felt like I need to write a book. Um so I I re I wrote this all out and made it and I was like you know whatever comes of it I just feel like I'm supposed to do it. So I did it. Um so I had no intention of starting a business. I just wrote a book um more and more people reached out to me I grew into a Facebook group it grew into hey will you help me with this? So it was really this organic thing that happened until I realized I'm making more per my time and I'm helping more people help people than I am at the gym I was working at, you know so I was able to talk to my wife and we took this like you know the big jump out of the gym into my own training but it really felt more like a step at that point because I was running this side business and the and I was helping our team. So everything in the book everything in my trainings everything that I'm doing is stuff that I went through myself and then I got to so I tried it out on myself and then I got to try it out on my team in Orlando and then I got promoted to a gym in the villages and I tried it on the team there. I was able to try it out along the way and the people that wanted it and grabbed onto it grew. And I was like this works. This is awesome so I mean instead of working here I have an opportunity to dive more into that and free up my time for our church free up my time for our family. It was a it was a risk right but like there's this moment of like this is the right step. So that's what I that's right we took the step it was um you know actually that that officially happened uh about uh over a year ago now just a year and a half ago almost of like stepping away officially from the gym I already had some consulting clients coaching clients here and there that were trainers that needed help lined up and they were working with them and then all of a sudden it all became the right path and it it worked really well.

That's great. Did you when you're when you're deciding on that step, you know um you described as a step up which I I really like it's not a leap, it's a step up, right? Yeah. Did you go through a particular decision making process? Because I have one that I use through these kind of things, but I'm always curious to see how other people wal walk through this because it's a big it's a big decision. You have to think about it. You have to really weigh it because fear will will grasp you right for sure. Yeah but you got to kind of override that my wife tells me I'm weird a lot um I don't we could start a Facebook group just on on guys whose wives think they're weird.

My wife tells me I'm weird it's pretty like that's a great let's do that together. That'd be a group um but it actually it helps me to remember like I don't think a lot like other people do. Maybe being around kids a lot, maybe just the way I'm wired like I have a high motor I want to keep going. So I very rarely think about the negative possibilities of what's to come and I'm very often like that looks good. Let's try it. That looks like that that could be fun and good and it's profitable. All of that works let's go for it. It's a little different now like when that happened you got five kids you know and you're like okay so I went from one needing to make money to let's free up some time to now four kids and a foster child. So five kids at my house that are like if if this doesn't work out there's we're back to step one where like how are we going to feed this family again, you know so I think what it really came down to is there were some proven things that had happened. And I think if if anybody's out there looking to make the jump, either to go training on your own or you're a really great trainer and you've got a system and you want to help trainers and you're jumping away from training or jumping away from a gym to do that. There were steps along the way that proved to me and proved to my wife that this was the right step such as like just being promoted within my my gym to where I actually had people under me. So I I treated every meeting that I had with my trainers as a coaching call, as a, as a consulting thing can I help you grow your business? The ones that wanted to meet with me and listen to me, like their business grew. So I was like okay that gives me some confidence to get rid of that fear you're talking about. And then the other side of it, you know, there's always little frustrations when you're not working for yourself completely and you got to do things other people's way and when you you think you've got ideas that are better than other people. So part of that is pride in me that I've constantly got to squash down. And the other part of that is like okay this is a big ship I'm working for and I'm a little guy trying to steer this ship like just push it an inch takes so much effort like if I was doing this on my own I could spend so much less time and make the same result. That that made a lot of confidence in me too. So when I see results happening in other people I've got clients that can't get to the gym I'm at that want to train with me. So I have this back backup plan with personal training as well. And then I've got clients that are like you know I can make an immediate change right away rather than this like big turning slow push lots of effort little return kind of feel to it nothing against the company I was with there it's an amazing I would recommend anybody work for them. But uh it's just the way I'm wired working for myself was huge. Those three things all put together I I started my own personal training and I took on some clients a little more full time and it just started growing. So that's um I don't know if there was a process per se but those three things really lined up where I knew I had clients lined up for personal training. I I knew I had clients lined up for consulting. I knew I had done the job to build to that point to where I had the confidence. It wasn't just like this is what I want to do forget everything. Let's jump on it and try to get some clients like it it was already there. I just had to say go, you know so that was a lot easier step. If you got five kids and a wife and you're trying to do this and you're gonna make this jump with nothing under you, I think it's a bad idea as as much as you want to call it entrepreneurial or you're you're looking to get into debt pretty quick. You're looking to put some stress on your marriage pretty quick you're looking to ignore your kids pretty quick and that's not good for anybody you know so to have those steps in place rather than a a vision and a big jump is huge.

Yeah I agree man and I think I I try to talk people out of things when they're thinking about them.

You know, because if you do you really believe this like if I can talk you out of it maybe you don't really want to do it.

Yeah well and then when I find something that's really good and people are teetering on the edge you know there's there's three simple questions in order that that we go through and number one is you know what's the worst thing it could possibly have right so you reduce it down to the worst thing. And I've gone through this numerous times almost on a weekly basis. I'm like well for me I guess it's my wife and I live in the van and uh which actually isn't that bad. It's kind of life we've been dreaming of anyway. So okay we got that check that one off the second one is you know 10 years from now will I regret not having tried right because that's that objectively pulls you away and looks at it from a situation like okay if I'm looking at myself 10 years from now I'm gonna be like Eric why why didn't you go for it right? Why did you say status quo? And then number three is what if it's easy no one ever thinks about that. They're like well what if it is easy? Yeah what if I'm just putting all these barriers in my mind and you know what if that stuff never happens because I can tell you when I've watched new things I've thought about all the reasons why it may fail. Yeah but then does any of that really happen? Not very often right no almost never now that I think about it and that's that's a big thing too but I do what you did which made it obvious to you was that you actually did the work you prove it to yourself and and many times over that this hey this is this is good stuff right yeah and I probably could have made if I wanted to jump I could have jumped sooner but I needed it for my own confidence and my wife needed it for her confidence just because of the family.

You know I I heard a really wise man say, you know, when you're in love you and your wife will live in a cardboard box outside or a van, you know but as soon as you get a kid now she's gonna expect that child to be raised in at least the same if not better conditions than she was raised in. So there's no like risking it all and going back down. And I think that's true for a lot of people like you know most supportive spouses or husbands or spouses would wouldn't maybe wouldn't say that no no we want to go for your dreams but like it puts a tension there if you don't really consider that and you're not ready to do you don't have things lined up. So I think there's a great question to balance it is like what if it's easy what if it all works out what does that look like and then like what's the worst that could happen you balance those two out like okay do the pros outweigh the cons and is this something that I should have done two years ago? Is this something that maybe I I need to hold off for two years or do I need to make make it go right now? You know that's that's a good thing to talk through.

Yeah yeah it's awesome man the mindset of it all is is incredibly powerful and you know hopefully uh and this is I've I've noticed myself doing this quite a bit over the last three to six months is really talking people out of the entrepreneurial leap because it's really sexy right now, right? You get the Gary V's you get all these you know shark tank you got all this stuff going on where entrepreneurship is like the sexiest thing ever. But you know what? Like if you talk to a lot of people hey most entrepreneurs don't make as much as they would if they're in a classical career. Yeah that's true. They just don't like yeah you get you get some some stars out there who do really well and it takes a long time but then they get there and with no you know no shortage of failure along the way. But I think it's you know and now everyone's selling funnels are like hey you're only one funnel away from you know seven figures and you know you just gotta if you just create the courses and then you have good digital marketing people are going to buy it and you can just live on a beach in Fiji and everything's gonna be amazing. It's the life life you ever want is right around the corner if you just buy my funnel. I want to buy that funnel.

Let me get that funnel where is that one?

Yeah I mean hey I work with some of the best digital marketers in the world and I'm privileged to do so and I can trust you right now just seeing them how they work there's there's a gonna be a lot of funnels if you go that route. There's just gonna be a lot of funnels. You know you're gonna have a lot of funnels that wasted a lot of time and money but that's okay part of the process. So I mean this being the future of fitness um podcast you know where do you see okay let me think about this question. How big do you think group small group training is going to be right in the next 10 years as as health clubs and boutique gyms grow you know everybody seems to be going towards a big group model. But where where do you think it's going?

I'm a little different on this um so I'm I'm speaking at Ursa this coming year and this past year and and everything of these big conventions is pushed towards large group and technology. Large group fitness tech, wearable tech, like big groups heart rate training big groups recovery, whatever it is, some kind of technology I I really I don't know when it's happening but I really feel like um those are important things. Don't get me wrong that they're good things and they're important things but everybody is all in on all of them and that's like they're talking about like the pendulum has swung so far there that it's reaching I think it's already reached its boiling point. What what I found with a lot of the big conventions and a lot of the big articles by the time you're really hearing about it, all of the really good trainers have already done it and used it and found the flaws in it. And that's why you're hearing it at big conventions and big broadcasts and everywhere else is because they're not going to put something out there that hasn't already been done or already been tried or already been like useful because they're reaching everybody. So they've got to have something reliable right so it's already at the end of its peak. You know so if you're buying into the large group in the tech right now I think you're you're on the the downside of the Bitcoin right you're on like uh still if you if you read about the job in the paper, somebody's already got the job, you know like it's just you got to know somebody to get in. But I really see it going back to personal training. Like and I I don't think one-on-one training is ever going to die um like some people have predicted but I don't see that as it I think I think that three to eight person small group training is personal enough for people to really get um a lot out of it and is affordable enough for people to do it but it also requires a commitment enough to where it's it's going to be something that is really powerful. And here's why the large group very seldom can work specifically on your movement patterns or your mobility or anything that you need to change about yourself. It is a big model and everybody has you know everybody's human we all move the same the same mechanics but everybody has different parts of their life that affect them in different ways that have messed them up or imbalanced them or whatever it is or injuries or this and that. So you need somebody there to help you through it. And and the reason I don't think it's through technology, which maybe maybe in a way it is maybe that's a small group through a computer screen I don't I don't know but the hands-on approach is is so much different because you can actually be there with the person and help them feel what it feels like to go through the motions right so if that is virtual reality maybe if that's whatever I don't know what what what my bet is though is that social media itself is going to be on a big downturn because they can't create social media platforms fast enough that marketers and people selling things don't latch onto it and sell everything on it. So it doesn't feel like you're connecting with anybody anymore. Facebook got that way Instagram is getting that way everything is getting to ads and specific targeting of people to to buy my stuff right so along with the fact that there's no real connection anymore with people you don't talk to your neighbors like you need something to connect with real people it is a human necessity to be with other people but it's the one thing we don't think we need because we need money to live we need a spouse or a family to to procreate right we need a a a boss to or a job to to make the money we need so we need all these other relationships but friendship and connection in peers doesn't feel like it's needed until you're so deep into it that you're you're depressed because you got no friends or you realize where'd my life go? I got I got nothing but money and that's it. You know so my my bet is is that really successful businesses will find a way to meet that need, not just in a technol technological way and not just in a really expensive or large group way, but a personal connection with peers. And I think that's small group training for the fitness industry. So I think you see a resurgence of that a lot. And I think people get away from the tech quite a bit because I think it's intruding on our lives in a big way and I think you're gonna see a big push to where even phones and all the stuff like I'm sitting here I've got a a Google home in my in my bedroom and I've got one in my office and I've got a you know so my house is a tech house I'm not like some creep. I've got an iPhone you know I'm not like I'm not on a rotary dial up phone. I got I get the t the benefits of it but when it comes to the social aspect it cannot provide that like it claims to so I think fitness can make meet that need really strongly there.

Yeah I agree man and I'm I'm I'm applauding everything you're saying right now because I think it's really uh you know here's a guy me who's been you know self uh appointed digital nomad for the last two and a half years because you know we've lived in you know quite a different number of places and I can tell you I talk to a lot of people every day all over Zoom or phone and all of that. But now that I've kind of settled in a place our third winner here in Montana is that I'm like God I really miss having a cup of coffee with someone. You know I really miss going and watching a football game right so now like people I meet I'm like hey do you want to you want hey man do you want to go grab a cup of coffee or something? They're like what? I'm coming to Montana man let's go let's do this.

But I make now I have to make a concerned effort to get off of that and actually have human interactions which I find there are very filling right so hard because everything else is so easy and so quick but the thing you really need is like it doesn't make any logical sense like we're talking just like we would if we were in person but like that face-to-face connection like this person actually is spending time with me we're getting to some like emotional physical like psychological by the way I'm a psych major so may that that's part of this like uh I love this stuff but um that's that's the stuff that people need you know and that's that's this that's life you know that's yeah and it's interesting too I mean I I look at um I mean you know you're you're you're a man of faith and that you know churches aren't necessarily growing I mean some of them are but you look at some of the classical institutions they're they're their size and their following is is is getting smaller and there's less people who are in because that used to be the social gathering.

That was like everybody met at church or you know or temple or whatever it was on the weekends and those numbers you know aren't quite what they used to be. It's not at least from from my circles of friends it's not the same thing as when we grew up and I think fitness I used to joke about it but I was like you know I was like owner a CrossFit gym owner with 250 plus members and I knew everyone you know I ever everywhere I went in Santa Barbara I knew somebody and that was just the the side you know benefit of of doing business that way for so long. Yeah I used to joke that this was kind of like church from like everyone would come Saturday mornings we'd have 40 people in class. It can turn into a little religiousness can't it yeah like but I was like what I was looking at was like hey this is actually okay people really need this.

Like they really need this place. You see in my in where my wife and I are living now in Winter Garden the the most popular place it's packed out every Saturday is farmers market. You know like it's like the actual like let's all meet together and there's all kinds of shops and there's all kinds of people and there's a live band and there's stuff to do like but it was so popular they built a a standalone like brick and mortar market where there's different different shops within it a brewery within it. Like those places are popping up everywhere for the last five years now they're all over the place. People are craving that I want to be out with people. I want to be out with the people but when you get in all of a sudden I I found myself there two or three weeks ago and it was just like what's the old Yogi Berra saying like that place is uh nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. You know like that's that like it's it it's you just you feel lost in the crowd and you're like okay I like this place when it first started because there weren't that many people but it felt kind of like personal to me. It was my spot now I can't move through like Walt Disney World. I can't move through the line without having to bump into somebody that I don't know and everybody's sweating on each other and it's just too much. There's that mid space just in our personal lives where you're like I like that smaller environment that still feels personal but there's other people here but it's not too crowded and it's just it's almost impossible for any other business to build that in because we got to get people to make money to pay the bills. But if you have those group classes set up in a way where hey we're capping it at this number of people then you could fill in other trainers. You could have multiple groups in your gym rather than one big group going and each trainer is responsible for each group but it's a um it makes it really personal on purpose and still has that group effect. You know so it's really it's huge. Very intentional yeah yeah exactly.

Ryan where do people find you where they go where they get your courses where they get your book give us the whole lowdown easiest way to find me is uh shoot everywhere.

But uh I hate selling book dot com is like the landing page to pick up my book for free. That's the easiest thing. All my courses are on thinkific. So it's trainingwithrion dot com is my other website. Um or if you just say man I like this guy I want his course right now it's trainingwithrion.think dot com. So that's where um you can buy the courses there. But you get in touch with me and uh you get the book emailed to you so you can reply back to that email and just tell me what you think about it right away. So it's a pretty simple uh process if you just get the book the conversation can start from there.

Yeah right on Ryan thank you for uh for coming on I I admire your authenticity yeah it's been really fun so uh yeah we'll be talking soon ladies and gentlemen Ryan can hey it's your host Eric Malzone thank you so much for listening to another episode of Future of Fitness if you enjoyed it please do me a huge favor by going to the website and signing up for our newsletter website is futureoffitnessco again that's futureoffitness.co we've got some big big announcements coming down the pipe and we want you to make sure that you are on top of it. Thank you again signing off