The Best Hour of Their Day - Jason Ackerman

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, where we talk with entrepreneurs, researchers, and practitioners in fitness, wellness, and the health sciences. I'd like to give a big thanks to our sponsors, Level 5 Mentors, helping entrepreneurs achieve the highest levels of freedom in time, money, relationships, health, and purpose. Also, certified course creation, helping entrepreneurs create accredited online certifications that are not only lucrative but highly scalable. Go to level5mentors.com or certifiedcoursecreation.com and learn more. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and once again, welcome to the Future of Fitness. We're live. Jason Ackerman, welcome back to the future of fitness, my friend.

You know, it's always a pleasure, Eric. I really, really enjoy talking with you.

Yeah, I enjoy talking to you too, man. I um I learn a lot. I think since the last time, God, it's probably been at least two years since since you were on the show. And uh I know we've both gone through uh multiple evolutions, I guess you could say, right?

Is pregnancy considered an evolution? Because it's still I'm in the midst of one, yes.

Yeah, I'm not too good with words and definitions and things like that, but yeah, I would I would throw that into an evolution category for sure. Congratulations. So let's just start off with that, man. How uh how far along are you guys? And today's recording is uh August 28th, 2020.

I believe we have uh ultrasound Wednesday, which will be like 17 or 18 weeks. It's hard to keep track.

Wow, man.

But I think we're approaching the halfway mark.

Yeah, yeah. You have uh a pandemic baby coming in.

You know, I think there's gonna be a whole bunch of those coming soon. You know, and I you know, having never gone through this before, this is my first child, I'd imagine it's always stressful when your wife is pregnant, but it's even more stressful going through it right now.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, what extra precautions are are your your doctors and your medical staff, what are they suggesting for you guys?

You know, really just the we're just being as cautious as somebody who would be at risk because of COVID. You know, so the elderly or immunocompromised, you know. It it's funny too, like slowly we've kind of become a little more loose with our, you know, for example, let yesterday was Roz's birthday, and it was our first time going out to eat in probably six months. I uh I recently started going back to a CrossFit box. So, you know, we're we're kind of loosening up things, but still avoiding things. I'm I'm not training jujitsu right now, or you know, we're avoiding crowded spaces, but you know, nothing out of the ordinary, it's just a little more stressful.

Yeah, yeah, man. It's uh it's definitely gonna add a layer of complexity to your life, that's for sure. We don't have kids, but I have six nieces and nephews.

And you're talking about a level of complication after the baby.

Yeah, yeah. Complexity, not complication and complexity.

It's complexity, yes. That's a good idea. Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, this is just during the pregnancy. I don't know what's gonna happen when this baby comes out.

Yeah, yeah, man. Um, well, that's great, man. Please give Roz my best. Uh I'm I'm really happy for you guys. So, what have you been up to for the last two years? And when I had you on the podcast last time, uh, you and Roz are co-founders of ownyoureating.com. You've written books. We've done all kinds of things, man. What but what's uh give us the highlights for the last two years?

Last two years, let's sum it up. So about a year ago, we relocated to Boulder, Colorado, which I know you're a big fan of. So hopefully I'll see you here one day. And we continue to grow on your eating. Roz has really taken the reins on that and really done tremendous with it. And during this pregnancy, actually, she's been focused on she's just learning so much, I think, for for especially for the men, but but the women as well. There's just like so much to learn. Like it's like, hey, you're pregnant, go. Where are you like, what do I do? And you know, she's really diving into that from a from a health perspective and a nutrition perspective. So we're gonna have some some courses and some new education material out there during the pregnancy and after. And I've been just really cranking away on my company best hour of their day, trying to help CrossFit coaches become successful.

That's awesome, man. Love the name, by the way, best hour of their day.

I don't know how I got that.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I I think it's one of those expressions that people naturally used, and you hear you heard it all the time, but no one was like, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna grab that. And I don't know that I grabbed it. I mean, I have a URL and an uh Instagram account, but you know, I don't know what the what the copyright and trademark stuff is. But you know, I we used to just joke around when I was coaching, hey, this is the best hour of your day, the best hour of our client's day, and and and you know, luckily no one had no one had taken it. And really, it just started off as a podcast. My buddy Jason Fernandez and I. We've been part of the CrossFit Seminar staff for going on 10 years now, which is hard to believe. And, you know, we just have so many stories. We've been around so many interesting people, and we've coached for you know, it it was recent that I was like, man, you know, you I watched the Bruce Lee documentary. I don't know if you saw it. What's it called? I think it was called Like Water.

Okay.

It was like one of those ESPN 30 for 30s, and there was the The Last Dance, which was kind of a big deal. I don't know. Did you watch that one?

Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah, loved it.

But you know, the the underlying theme for both of those, as well as anyone that's successful, especially in the creative world, is the the idea of these 10,000 hours. And I was really depressed. I was like, man, I've wasted my time. I've not done anything. I've got a guitar sitting over there, and I can play like three chords, you know. I'm I practice jujitsu and I get choked out every day. And I'm like, man, what did I put my 10,000 hours in? And I realized it was coaching. You know, that's what I've done. That's what I've become good at. And I wanted to share that with the world.

Oh, that's great, man. Yeah, it's uh did does it feel like you've done 10,000 hours of coaching, or has it been something that uh, you know, you just time flies when you're doing it?

Yeah, you know, and I wasn't documenting it, you know, but there there are it definitely feels like I have the the time under tension. You know, I don't walk into a scenario, it's it's it's probably, you know, going back to that guitar analogy, it would probably be like someone that's really skilled at guitar being able to show up at any bar on any given night and join in. Like I don't know your songs, just tell me what key it's in, and I can make this thing happen. And it's kind of how I feel about coaching. You know, there's there's not a circumstance, there's not a box or the or a gym or a person that I don't think I can make better via my coaching.

Yeah, awesome, man. And how many uh the best hour of their day of the podcast, how many episodes have you done?

We just put out episode 300 earlier this week.

Wow, man. So you're pumping out how many a week?

Over the last year, we've averaged about five a week.

That's amazing, man. Well done.

I don't, you know, I don't know if it's amazing or dumb, but you know, and and the reason it started was like I was saying, Fern, uh, you know, that's how I refer to Jason Fernandez. Fern Fern and I just hit record one day, we put out an episode, got some good feedback, put out another episode. And then we decided, hey, we're gonna interview some people as well. And we we created this long list of people, and at the time it was like, you know, shoot for the stars. We had Coach Glassman on there, Coach Bergner, Kelly Storett, Chuck Carswell, you know, anyone in the crossfield world that you've heard of was on the list. And over the years we've made those connections, and we said, okay, let's reach out, and maybe a handful of these people will say yes. But everyone said yes. So we just like I remember for a few months my calendar was just stacked with interviews, and we realized, hey, a lot of these interviews are very time relevant. We're talking about things that are happening now, and if we record them and then put them out in three months, they're kind of outdated.

Yeah.

So we just started pumping out these episodes, and you know, it I think the the best part is we really enjoyed, I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy talking to you, I enjoy talking to coaches, I enjoy talking to Fern. So, you know, five hours of talking, selfishly to me, I'm learning every time. I'm getting to talk to these other amazing human beings. It doesn't seem like work.

Right. Yep, I agree, man. I think uh one of the things that I love about your story there is I I've helped people, you know, I've launched three podcasts now. Um I've helped, I don't know how many dozens of people start their shows uh just because I really think it's a great tool for everything in life and business. It's just a really powerful way to create content, make connections, learn, like you said, educate yourself and uh and build authority too. I mean, it's just a no-brainer for me. But a lot of people get hung up. They get hung up on the little details, right? Well, I don't know what the name's gonna be exactly. I don't know, um, I'm not sure about the artwork, you know, uh, what's the format? And then they just never start. And you gotta start. That's the biggest thing, is you just gotta get started, and then you kind of figure it out as you go because probably the first 10 episodes you're never really gonna want to look back and listen to anyway. It's just the way it is. And uh I love too how you you shop for the stars, and something I tell people all the time, too, is like, hey, get your dream list of guests and just ask, right? Reach out, ask them if they'll be on, because there's a probably pretty good chance that they will. Because the bigger the guest, the more apt they are to do interviews because they understand the value of getting their their name and content out there consistently. The good ones are on the podcast and interview circuit all the time. And I'm I'm curious how many times when you reach out to these people, Jason, do they ask you how big your audience is?

I don't think I ever got that question.

Exactly. That's the thing, is people just people don't care. They're just happy to be interviewed. They like to talk about themselves and they know even if your podcast has uh, you know, listenership of 10, that's 10 new people that they didn't have to work to get in front of, right? So I commend you for doing all that. And 300 episodes, that's no uh that's no small feat in a fairly short period of time. I want to ask you about CrossFit, man. I mean, shit's changing. It's changing really fast. There's some pain, right, at the affiliate level. There, there's a lot of different things going on. How are you feeling about the CrossFit community right now? We have a new, there's a new CEO in place. He's he's kind of quiet about the changes he's gonna make. He's alluded to some things, but what what are you feeling right now?

I I think CrossFit is in a really good place right now. I think you know it went through the turmoil. We've overcome it. It really could have been catastrophic, but I think the community rallied together, and then ultimately with Eric, you know, purchasing or taking over as the CEO, I think I think it's it's moving in the right direction. Again, I feel good about my role in CrossFit again. I feel positive about the direction it's gonna go and how it's gonna grow. It just seems, it just seems like there was a fire lit and it needed that. I, you know, whatever you think of Coach Glassman, he said dumb things, he was insensitive, etc. He he founded this thing and he took it to where it got to. And and I think because of who he is, he's kind of like that charismatic leader. And we were at the ceiling. Coach Glassman took us to where we can go. I, you know, I do believe he could have taken us further, but it would have taken him deciding to be a different style of leader, maybe learning a little bit, maybe listening to other people, creating a board of directors like Eric's done. But I think from what I know of him, we were kind of at that glass ceiling and and Eric's, you know, breaking through it. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's that classic um tale, I guess, of you know, it's it what got you here isn't what's going to get you to the next level. And that's that's critical. You know, uh Coach Glassman is is directly and indirectly changed millions of lives and built a community that is really revolutionized the fitness industry. And I say that in a way that people didn't truly realize the power of community and how important it can be to sue one's fitness and health, the motivation, the accountability, the enjoyment, the tribal belonging that you get from it. And uh I mean you and I have both been starting CrossFit fairly early, and then the uh the fitness industry was pissed at CrossFit, they didn't want what was going on, right? Too dangerous.

Yeah, so I mean, I remember when I first started training, implementing CrossFit with my one-on-one clients back in 2006. Yeah, the other trainers at the gym were angry, you know, they were mad, they would talk badly behind my back, like he's gonna hurt people and this and that. And, you know, it's it's funny. All these years later, you know, uh there's this one woman, she was like old school, an old school trainer. She was like that old woman trainer that just kind of stuck around into her 50s. And I remember when I started coaching CrossFit at the gym, to just my one-on-one client, she would, you know, say how I'm gonna hurt people and say these bad things. Flash forward now in her 60s, she's doing CrossFit. So, you know, it's I I you know, I think A, the truth always rises, right? And and and and things that work will always will always rise to the top as well. You keep, you know, I think people need to, and and for the most part, they have separate the man from the company. You know, CrossFit is this amazing thing and it changes lives. You could you gotta separate the founder from it and realize, you know, th this is still, in my opinion, the the most effective way to be training.

Yeah. It's really good. I mean, I um I don't train nearly as much as I do, mainly because I'm 43 and I understand the uh golden rule of minimal effective dose at my my my point in life. But you know, everything I do, uh, you know, the two times I get into the gym and then I work out multiple times outside throughout the week, just being active or trail running or whatever that is, I do CrossFit-like stuff. And it's the most beneficial thing for me. It's the best use of my time in the gym, hands down. I don't do a super high level of intensity, but the movements, the Olympic lifts, the functional upper upper body gymnastics work, it's just it's gonna keep me in shape and healthy for a long time, you know, bar some something coming out of the blue. It's just a really great way to do it. And, you know, I think one of the things that people didn't realize early on with CrossFit was that, hey, it's just like a medical professional or something like that. It's not what they learn, it's not the stuff in the books that's the problem, it's how it's applied at times. There is great CrossFit coaches, and there was ones who just really didn't use it well. And uh that's you know, unfortunately, did get um more press than it should have. So go ahead.

You know, no, and you say that and it's it's absolutely true, but that would be like someone listening to this podcast and being like, Eric had a really bad guest on this Jason Ackerman guy sucked. I'm never listening to another podcast.

Right.

Right? And you're like, no, this uh this was just a terrible guest. That's all. Like, you don't write off Eric's podcast and you don't write off all podcasts. You you determine, okay, do I want to find something that's better? And and then, you know, go down that route. And I think people, especially when something was new, you know. I think when when when CrossFit was new, everyone was like, you know, this is CrossFit. So everyone's getting hurt at this particular box because this coach is just driving intensity down the members' throats. I never want to do this. But at the same time, there were plenty of boxes doing it well, they were just kind of going under the radar.

Yeah, yeah. Well said, man. Great analogy. Yeah, you have to look at it.

Hey, don't don't say me being a bad interviewee is a good analogy.

That was just Oh, don't worry, man. This won't air. Yeah.

No one's listening.

No one's listening. Um so one year from now, how do you think CrossFit's gonna be different? If you just had to take your your gun instinct, which you know out of all these conversations, how do you think it's gonna be different?

I think there's gonna be a lot more communication from the top. So you're already seeing, you know, Eric did this, uh, what did he call it? Like a town hall uh last week. He's doing uh, I don't know, I'm getting all these invites to other things that he's doing online. So I know he's at least making the effort to put more out there. And I think aside from that, I think that there's gonna be a push to go the digital route. I think there's gonna be more, you know, Peloton-esque things happening, you know, whether it's virtual workouts, whether it's uh a better CrossFit app that people can use, all sorts of things like that. And you know, I don't know a whole lot about Eric. I've had a couple conversations with him, but you know, a quick Google search will show you that he sold the company for like a billion dollars and it was a data company. So I think I think that's kind of his his dream and and his focus, and he's really good at it.

Data is king. I mean, every uh as as this pandemic makes its way through, fitness industry is changing forever. It's it's never gonna be like it was. And a lot of that is technology driven, and which means that there's gonna be a lot of data. I had uh Ali O'Radi from uh Tonal on the show twice, and one of the things he mentioned too, he's like, you know, Eric, the the device is, you know, I'm totally just you know summarizing our conversation, but he's like, Eric, the the tech is great, the home device is is great, the hardware, the software, all of that. But really, what it's exciting is is the data that they're collecting on all these people. I was like, exactly. Yeah, that's uh it's a lot of data, man. Imagine if CrossFit had a lot more data, and which imagine which means that they're gonna have to involve some sort of tech, right?

Yeah, and I'm I mean, I'm sure he's already building that team. And I think, you know, ultimately, you know, it sounds like you know, those that listen might be thinking, who cares about that? I'm an affiliate owner, I'm a coach. But the truth is if if he's it's it's gonna trickle down to the affiliates. You know, there's there's people that bought a Peloton bike, I'm sure, that now either go to spin classes or feel more confident joining a gym. And the same will happen in the Crossco world. Okay, I took this class online, I've done it for a few weeks, I've lost 10 pounds, I'm gaining some confidence. Let me let me go do this with other people, or or maybe I need a coach to help me with my snatch or my thruster. You know, so I think it's gonna drive business to the affiliates as well.

Interesting. Yeah, let's dive into that, man. So what do you and this is all hypothetical? People, neither Jason, I know what's going on um behind the the closed doors of CrossFit HQ, but you'd imagine you're imagining some sort of app that the general population can access for free or subscribe to. Is that kind of was that what you're imagining with daily workouts and and all that?

I uh yeah, I would guess that's the direction it's gonna go. I think he alluded to on a few calls ago, you know, to the general public that you know there may be this kind of like I would I would call it like the YouTube of fitness where like I can put a workout up there and 10 people may watch it or a million people may watch it. You know, and and you get to select. I like Jason, I like Eric, I like Jenny or you know, Katie, you know, their style. And no different than Peloton, right? Over the over the quarantine, we got a Peloton, and I have my favorite instructors, Ross has her favorite instructors, my friends have theirs, and I think it'd be very similar. And you know, if it so if you think about CrossFit, if they're taking my class, there's only so much coaching I can do virtually, especially for the more complex movements to clean and jerk a snatch. But if someone's taking my class and they live, you know, in Boston, they may do a quick Google search and and look and find CrossFit Boston or you know, another box there and say, okay, I want to learn how to do these movements better. Or there may be an opportunity to reach out to me directly if you're liking my classes and and let me coach you virtually. Again, like you said, I don't know if this is the case. I would just imagine that's what's gonna happen.

Yeah, yeah, I I've seen a couple uh solutions starting to hit the market too that are very CrossFit focused. You know, I just had Mike Hansen from Endorphins uh on the show, not just a few episodes ago. And one of his concepts that I really got me thinking too was like, well, imagine the record label for music, right? But for fitness. So what that means is, you know, they find uh Madonna gets, I'm aging myself, Madonna gets signed by a major record label because they they recognize her as a big talent, and they start building content and uh you know promote her albums and and all that. Imagine that's for fitness professionals now, is you can be a great coach, right? And be found and then be put into these um these apps or these streaming content devices, whatever it may be. And now you're a brand, you're a personal brand. That's happening already. And I think it's gonna be even more powerful moving forward because people are really starting to get used to home-based content now.

Exactly. I think that's a great analogy there.

Out of all the people you talk to, who and we can we can stay in the CrossFit world because I think it's interesting. Who do you think is innovating outside of CrossFit HQ? Who who do you think is innovating within that market?

Huh, that's a good question. You know, honestly, I don't follow it well enough to know. I know, you know, the Jason Khalifa over at NC Fit did a really fast pivot when everything went down with with HQ and people were kind of abandoning ships. So I I think he's typically at the forefront of of trying new things and and trying to grow. So I would I would lump into him into that category. Um I honestly, beyond that, I'm not sure. I I don't really I don't keep a close eye on it.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious too. I mean, there's gonna be there's so much opportunity. How how do you think? Let me even I'm gonna ask you another future question. How do you think CrossFit affiliates are gonna be different a year from now?

Assuming the pandemic passes, I think I think a lot I think it'll return to a lot of normalcy. Right now, there's you know, we need to be socially distanced and we wear masks and class times are are limited. I think we're gonna see kind of a return to that basic CrossFit. Like come in, we're gonna hit one workout a day, we're gonna coach you for this hour. If if there if anything changes, I think potentially this opportunity for trainers and coaches to have more one-on-one clients because, like I said, as people trickle in, they're gonna need that coaching.

Yeah, yeah, I agree, man. It's gonna be uh it's gonna be interesting to see when you look at it from a market perspective of you know, many of the, for lack of better term, hobbyists, right? Ones that maybe own a gym because they just love CrossFit, but maybe it's not profitable. There's a lot of those out there, right?

Oh, there's I I would say a third or more of boxes are are like that.

Yeah, I would say or more. I think uh Ken and Druko and Jim Kroll and I had a conversation and uh we estimated somewhere between right around half is what we said. Um we we guesstimated a little bit.

Yeah, I I could see.

And uh I'm just wondering, you know, at what time does that passion run out, and especially when it's bleeding your pockets, and then you know, who's gonna come out of it at the end, right? Is it gonna be people with better business principles? Is it gonna be ones that have sustainability due to finances? Like what's what's that gonna look like? Is it gonna be the Jason Kalipas who I don't believe is actually affiliated anymore, right? I don't know.

I don't know. I've heard both sides of that. I don't I don't I don't know that I would imagine he's not anymore since he's trying to create his own affiliate model. But I think I think you're right. I think we're gonna see that professionalization of the boxes and the coaches. You know, gone are the days where I'm doing this out of passion. You realize, okay, I do need to make money, you know, I need to survive, I need to put food on my table, and there are other ways I can do that and still enjoy the you know the idea of coaching and and and being a part of this CrossFit community without running an unsuccessful business.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's uh I I I think there is gonna be an unfortunate cleansing but necessary cleansing of the boutique, not just CrossFit, but just the boutique gym model altogether. This goes for large franchises. I mean, you know, Gold's gym just had a big undertaking and um a releasing of their staff, um, which is unfortunate. Um, you know, something iconic like Gold, man. I don't know about you, but that's the first place I touched a barbell uh was in San Jose, California at a at a Gold's gym, and just the iconic people like Arnold Schwarzenegger on the wall and all of that. So this, you know, these iconic brands that have been around for a long time, these really hot franchises that have blown up in the last three to four years, those models are just getting shaken to their core. And uh it's it's challenging to watch, but you can only hope that you know it's gonna be good in the long run.

Yeah, the Mecca, the Mecca of of Gold's gyms out there, huh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh it's it's tough. So let's let's shift a little bit away from CrossFit because I want to talk about um a project you're working on. So mindset. Every time I talk to you, man, it's it's interesting. I feel like we talk, we kind of connect, reconnect every six months or so, I think, on average. And I'm always uh there always seems to have been some sort of evolution in your world. And it's noticeable. It's like every time I talk to you, you seem different.

You know, uh last time both Ken and I I just haven't I just haven't gotten a haircut, that's all.

Uh you know, it was like, wow, uh man, he seems really calm and and really on point, really centered. You know, it's really interesting. And it sounds like you've been doing a lot of inner work, um, which you're really excited about to kind of bring out into the world, you know, mindset. And you mentioned before your before recording here your relationship and how you're teaching people how to work with failure. Let's dive into that, man. What are you working on? What what's been the impetus for it and uh what's it gonna look like?

Well, well, first of all, I just want to say thank you. You and Ken are two people I highly respect and admire. And Ken told me that, you know, virtually in person, and it really meant a lot to me because because he's someone I really look up to. So when he said when he said that, I was like, you know, I think for a lot of people you make that 1% change every day, and then a year later you don't realize how much improvement you've made. You know, but but people that you speak to every six months do see it. So so that does mean a lot. So thank you. Yeah, you know, being involved in nutrition and fitness my entire life, as as as you're well aware, for so many people, it's not about the training, it's not about what they eat, it's all about their mindset and their emotion behind it. And I I think out there in the world today, so many people try to hide their failures. And it's just you go on social media and it's all this, I'm good at this, I'm good at that, and this is why I'm great. But not a lot of people are out there showing, you know, where where they failed and either you know why they failed or how they overcame it. And and that's something I want to put out there because you know, in my you know, very little success in this world, there's been a ton of failure. And I I want to show people that you can overcome that, and there's ways to do it, and and and share my story.

Failure is the one consistent thing that leads to success. And it's it's so critical. And I think, especially as coaches, mentors, advisors, you know, all the whatever you want to name it, it's it's kind of the same thing, right? What people really want and what they're really getting value from, if you're a coach, even in fitness and business, you know, they're they're very similar. They're paying you, they're investing in you for your failures, not necessarily the the huge accomplishments you made. You know, I I I truly believe that. That's if I can I I tell people all the time when they invest in me as a coach and mentor, it's you're paying me for my failures because I'm gonna help you maybe skip a few that could really save you a lot of time and anguish. Because I've tried it all, you know, I've tried a lot of stuff. And I think people's relationship with failure is is really a direct correlation to how fast they meet success. And uh it's it's really important. I mean, you hear all these things, right, Jason? Like fail forward, fail fast. Um, and they sound cliched, but cliches are around because they're probably true. Um talk to me maybe anecdotally about your relationship with failure and how it's changed over the last, I don't know, three years.

Well, for the longest time, I was just afraid of it. You know, failure was like the end. Okay, what am I, you know, and I I very much always kind of play out that worst case scenario in my head. My gym's gonna fail, I'm gonna be homeless on the street. Like that's where my head goes to. And I think a lot of people do that, you know.

Yeah.

And I think it it's interesting to have that conversation of why we're afraid of failure and you know, play out that worst case scenario, but at the same time realize it's highly unlikely you'd get there. You know, my gym fails, okay, I don't have any money, so now I can't pay my mortgage, so now you know we have to move out, etc. And then you're you realize, okay, with every step along the way, there's probably things I can do to improve that. And with years of failure, you know, under my belt, I've realized for for me, as you fail, there was really three three major actions you can do along the way. And depending on what the failure is and and what your end goal is, would dictate which of those actions you take. And that's really what I'm trying to tell people. And you know, the three that I have come come to the conclusion that work are this idea of, okay, you need to dig in, meaning, you know, I'm failing and I need to just dig in to become better at this. You know, and I have stories for all of those. You you can innovate, right? I failed at this, so I need to innovate and change something, or you can pivot and go a completely different direction. And and for me, different times in my life and different failures in my life caused me to take those those different actions. And sometimes they were the right actions, sometimes they were the wrong actions. And and there are stories out there. There are companies that we all know of, you know, that probably the most classic example for a company that didn't make those right decisions over the years was Blockbuster Video. Right? You we've well maybe not. If you got some millennials, they're like, What's that?

Yeah, what's that?

But those you know, but those of you of you that grew up in the 80s and 90s, you know, that's where we went Friday night, right? We would look at the videos, we look at the box, like get the recommendations, you know, and then all of a sudden this this internet comes out, this company called Netflix comes out, and you know, Blockbuster Video didn't make the right decisions at the right times to overcome that, and ultimately they failed. I don't know if that one blockbuster video is still open in like Idaho or Iowa, but you know, I think you know, is it Alaska? But there was a documentary I watched on it. But you know, point is they could have made different decisions and and still be a relevant, successful company. And and as individuals, we all face those those times in our life.

Yeah, it's so powerful, man. And um, you know, it's interesting. This this just came up. So the episode previous to this, I was interviewing uh Sean Pastuch of Active Life.

I you know, it's funny. I was I was gonna tell you after the show to let me connect you with Sean because we were talking about the professionalization of prospect coaches. I'm glad to hear you guys connected. He's a great, great I love Sean.

Yeah, he's been uh he's been a client of level five mentors too.

I think we uh That's right, I totally space mentor a lot of his leadership team.

But his his take on failure was really interesting. And I he asked, you know, at the end of the interview, he didn't even he didn't even ask, I didn't ask him. He's just like, hey, I I just you know, Sean. It's like I just want to add one more thing. I'm like, please, you know, have at it and uh people can go back and listen to it. But basically, I'll summarize it as this he's like, you know, understand that you need to focus on one thing. He's like, for those of us who focus on multiple things, then failure feels like failure. But if you're singularly focused on one particular endeavor, there is no failure, there's just testing and tweaking, right? I was like, whoa, that's actually that's extremely profound. And I find that people that are seeing success in in a certain part of their life, whether it be business or relationship, whatever it is, they have a unique relationship with failure that makes them successful. And I think everybody has a different, a different thing. I I don't, I can't say I actively seek out failure, but I'd rather, you know, as Doug Holt, who's a friend of you and I's, uh, he's always like, dude, ready, fire, aim. Let's do it. Like, all right, I like that. Let's just get the minimal viable product out there. Let's test it out, let's see what kind of interest we can get before we go and building everything. I think that's something that happens with maturity too, is like before I go all in, right? And this is very common in the fitness profession, is people will build out their online course, um, build out their funnel, lead magnets, all of that. And then they launch it into the to the market, crickets, because they weren't, they know, they believe that their cooking is amazing, that their own cooking is really good, but they're not really sure yet that the market will want it. And that's a very common thing. Something I've done, probably something you've done, probably something a lot of people who have gone into the digital world or even just, you know, brick and mortar trying out a new program, you know, in your gym. It's we always we we forget to kind of do a little bit of testing out there first. And that's been a point of maturity I've learned over the last three years. And give us something in your life, Jason, that was it, that was a failure that that led to something else. Give us, I'm sure you got multiple stories, but give us an anecdote. That led to something else? That led to something better because of because of your changed mindset with failure.

You know, it I I tell stories with with each of these where I say, like, where I failed and I dug in, where I failed and I innovated, where I failed and I pivoted. You know, so with that question, I would say it's probably something where I where I either innovated or pivoted, because if I dug in, I stuck with it, right? Right. So I think my my story about innovation would be, you know, going back to that one-on-one training that we talked about earlier. Uh I was I was failing. I was failing in the sense that it wasn't fun. I hated it. I was burned out. I was barely making ends meet. I was working 10, 12 hours a day. And and you know, the old training hours where you'd like, I'm I'm I'm there for like 16 hours because I got my early clients and my late clients, and no one from like one to three. You know, so you're you're just there all day. My relationships are failing with with with my girlfriends at the time because I'm not available for them. And when I am, I'm so tired. My energy is drained from giving it to these clients. And and I was I was ready to quit the fitness industry. This was 2006. I had just finished my master's in psychology, so I'm like, okay, I got this degree now. I don't really want to be a teacher, I don't really want to be, you know, a psychologist, but I need to get a real job. And that's where I innovated. And by innovating, what I did was open a CrossFit. You know, I I didn't create CrossFit, but I had this opportunity to say, okay, I found this new thing that I think if I open, I can work less hours because I can combine my clients to to one class rather than you know sprinkling throughout the day and make more money for that hour. And it's a whole lot more fun. And I can probably work with people that I actually enjoy working with. So this moment of failure where I really had to make a decision, you know, I could have I could have dug in and just you know, head down, get more clients. I could have pivoted and went with you know a a different route altogether and and dive in where I was and innovated and was the first I don't know if I was the first, but I was probably one of the first two or three CrossFits in New York State.

Yeah. It's interesting. And what what year was that, Jason?

I wound up opening in 2007, you know, but this was probably between 2006 and the time I opened. Level one, going through my affiliation process, and then finally opening my doors September 1st, 2007.

So that makes you super early. Great story, by the way. I love it. That makes you really early. What number affiliate were you?

Uh nowadays, with with the number of affiliates that have closed, you know, I was, you know, probably in the first 50.

Wow. Yeah, you're early, man. I think we were um 500 something. Yeah, that was 2009, is when we opened, officially opened the doors. We affiliated and over. Right.

So if you were 500 to do a year later and you were still in the first 500, yeah, and you know, you know how it was. It kind of steamrolled. You went from 200 affiliates to a thousand, you know, in a year.

Yeah, it was really fast. It was really fast. It was the wild, wild west back then. You know, so uh uh as we as we start to wrap this one up, Jason, and I think we're getting some internet issues, so I apologize to the audience. I got one question for you. You still with me?

I I can hear you.

During this pandemic, so it's been five months officially of kind of like lockdown, right? What has been one positive thing that has happened to you personally due to this whole thing called COVID-19?

Well, I mean, the most positive thing that's happened is the pregnancy, but I don't think that's due to COVID-19. I think that you know we uh that was just uh circumstantial. But I'd say the most positive thing is my ability to just be quiet, still, and by myself.

Hmm. That's interesting because I think a lot of people are struggling with that. And uh I mean I uh I'm I'm fairly introverted. We've been nomadic for, you know, three almost three years now. So I've gotten pretty used to being on my own. And uh, but this is really uh it's really made me cherish when I get to get out and hang out with people. Um the farmers markets here in in uh Whitefish in Columbia Falls, Montana are pretty active. So when I get to get out, last night we got out and I was like, God, I really value being around people and laughing and all those things. And it's uh it's really uh it's really provided a great sense of gratitude around all of that. So I'm glad to hear you've you've kind of found some peace with just being Jason and with Jason. It's awesome.

Well, I think I think so many people these days are afraid of being alone and afraid of being quiet. You know, it's we're always trying to distract ourselves. We always have our phone. Even when you're driving, you stop at a red light, everyone naturally grabs their phone. And for me, it's just this idea of meditation every morning focusing you and saying, that's a lot of it. Just just finding that stillness. And you know, and but you're absolutely right. I went back to the box about a month ago, and I'm like a lunatic at the box because I just it's exciting people again.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like a Labrador with too many tennis balls. Well, Jason, man, I I always gain insights from our conversations, and I'm so I'm so excited for what you're doing with the podcast and the coaching coaches and and the product that you got coming out. So if you can um just give our listeners uh an update, like, hey, where can they find you? How do they how do they get to your podcast? And when you when you go to launch your your new your new product on mindset, where do they get that?

Instagram vJason Ackerman. Uh and anything I do will always wind up passing through there. So if you find me on there, you'll naturally find everything else. Right on.

Uh Jason, any last thoughts for the audience before I cut you off?

No, I I appreciate you having me on. And I I think if if the audience is still in, I I would encourage them all, like we've just kind of talked about, to find time every day to be quiet and be by yourself and and be introspective. I think the the world is going, you know, mad and the world is moving fast, and it's only going to get crazier. And that's something that most people are losing and and they're and they're scared to be by themselves and they're scared to be within their own head. But you know, for me, if you would have told me that five years ago, I would have said, you know, my head's too crazy. I don't want to be in their body. And now it's like any muscle, you can train it.

Yeah, that's great, man. Well, thank you for that. I really appreciate it. So, ladies and gentlemen, the Jason Ackerman. Thanks for coming on, man. Thank you. Hey, it's your host, Eric Malzone. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Future of Fitness. If you enjoyed it, please do me a huge favor by going to the website and signing up for our newsletter. The website is futureoffitness.co. Again, that's futureoffitness.co. We've got some big, big announcements coming down the pipe, and we want you to make sure that you are on top of it. Thank you again. Sign it off.