Simon Sollberger - PEAR Sports - The Future of Smart Fitness

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. But Pocket Suite is different. If you are a business professional or gym owner that needs clients to book time with you and want a seamless billing solution, then look no further. Pocket Suite has you covered. On average, fitness business professionals that sign up for this app see a 30% boost in income. That's because it's simple and has everything you need and nothing you don't. You can easily sell packages and subscriptions. Control your billing in one place, no need for Venmo, PayPal, or any other merchant solutions. Save backforth time with clients and prospects with a custom booking link. Set up automations to cut down on admin time, like client renewal reminders, seamless client onboarding, contracts, intake forms, et cetera, et cetera. Look, I know this because I used it myself. It took me less than 10 minutes to get set up and fire off my first client invoice. If you're looking for a time-saving, simple application that allows you to combine three softwares in one with a clean, professional look for clients and prospects, then you have to check out PocketSuite. Go to pocketsuite.io. That's S-G-I-T-E. Check out the Apple App Store or Google Play to learn more and give it a free test run. You can also click in the link in the show notes for my special referral offer. That is PocketSweep.io. When you do what you love, running, racing, or simply enjoying the great outdoors, you want to do it for life. Insight Tracker can help. Insight Tracker was founded in 2009 by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics. Using their patented algorithm, Insight Tracker analyzes your body's data to provide you with a clear picture of what's going on inside you while offering highly personalized, science-backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes. Okay, time for straight talk. It's time that each single one of us takes responsibility for our own health. Personally, given the results of my Insight Tracker DNA and blood tests, I now have a clear and simple game plan to lower my cholesterol and stave off my family's genetic history of heart disease. The best part is that the plan doesn't include any kind of pharmaceuticals, just personalized nutrition and natural supplementation. Possibly my favorite feature of Insight Tracker is the inner age score, a singular metric that shows me how my biological age compares to my chronological age. They just gamify longevity. It's crazy cool. For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire Insight Tracker store. Just go to InsightTracker.com forward slash future. But wait, there is more. If you're a coach, trainer, registered dietitian, or any other health and wellness practitioner, you can now leverage Inside Tracker services to help your clients perform better than they ever have. And you can offer them discounts while you earn revenue. InsightTracker Pro is your gateway to offering your clients Insight Tracker, a science-backed, ultra-personalized performance platform trusted by elite athletes and top coaches. Just go to insight tracker.com forward slash future to get more information and enjoy deep, deep discounts. That is insight tracker.com forward slash future. Simon Solberger, welcome to the future of fitness. Pleasure. It is a pleasure. Uh we are going to get into some really deep, fascinating topics. And uh you have a wealth of knowledge within the uh you know the world of technology. And as anyone listens to the show knows, I like to lean really hard into that. And uh, you know, I'd like to thank first of all Natalia uh Karpostova from um the FitTech Summit and the FitTech uh Company for introducing us and and you know making this podcast possible. And let's just dig in, man. There's so much that you and I can talk about as we uncovered prior to recording uh really, really valuable stuff for the industry. But let's start with this, Simon, if you don't mind. Uh please just give us some of your background. How did you get to be uh you know leading pair sports?

Yeah, so uh first off, uh I'm originally from Europe. Uh I'm Swiss, but lived here for over 20 25 years. So I guess I'm American by now. Um so my background, I studied um automotive and industrial design, product design. So for me, you know, that's very much how I approach things. It's about the user experience, the look and feel, the brand, how does it make people feel? Uh so that's definitely how I approach things. And so um I studied in the US uh in in Pasadena because there's there's essentially only kind of three major schools that do automotive and product design, and Pasadena being being one of them, and and the beauty of Pasadena was it was a very diverse place. There was literally the uh the student body was just from people all over the world. Um, but I also have a uh a mechanical engineering background because my dad made me go through that first. He's like, if you if you want to be designer, you need to know how things work. So I suffered to four years of mechanical engineering. Um, but yeah, so design is really my background. Uh so I was I was working at a I was a creative director at an agency in LA, and we did a lot of projects for companies like Volvo and Kawasaki and Adidas and really broad range of of uh clients, a lot of medical tech as well. Um, and so I was doing that for for a while. Um and one of my clients was the company that I'm uh partner in now, which is is Innovate Partners, which is kind of the umbrella company that pair belongs to. So we're kind of a mix of a VC slash incubator. Um and so at the time, uh Innovate Partners was investing in a company called Chabra, which made uh in-ear uh earphones for for you know, that was right at the time when smartphones really or cell phones started to to to uh come onto the scene. And so we we created these these you know behind the ear Bluetooth earphones, and Chabra at the time was the largest manufacturer of Bluetooth earphones, and so you could call that that was my first foray into wearables, right? So, because initially Bluetooth earphones were these ugly things that kind of stuck out, that were kind of hanging off your ear, and so we really designed something that was so narrow and slim that would actually fit behind your ear, and so yeah, I guess that was my first wearable really. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of when I make the transition from running a creative agency to actually being part of uh kind of an incubator company, right? And so we did a lot of products in the consumer electronic space. Um, and one of the companies we seeded was Ultimate Ears, uh, which made India monitors for musicians. Um and that's that's really kind of where the sh where the genesis for pair happened, right? Like we were approached by Carmichael Training and Lance Armstrong, and they're like, hey, we need a wireless set of earphones for Lance so we can coach him in real time based on the biometric signals we see from him. And so we're like, wow, what a what a what a crazy notion that you can train somebody in the moment in in a smart format. And really that was the genesis of pair. We're like, okay, that that's what we want to create, is a smart coach.

Yeah, I mean, that's that's quite a story. I mean, that's a lot of really interesting technology that you've been, you know, firsthand with as developing it. I mean, and I think everybody has Bluetooth had earphones now. I mean, that like I'm trying to think back when that started and when it just became normal. Like I have a set here on my desk, I have one in my car, I have one in my gym bag, you know, they're they're just they're everywhere, and you're part of that. That's really cool. And you know, I I want to get some clarity on what Pairsports does. You know, I've had conversations about you guys, about you, and uh, you know, people ask me, well, what exactly is it that they do? I'm like, well, you know, I go to your website and I try to describe it. I know a few of the projects that you may be involved in. And but I I feel like uh whether it's intentional or not, there's like a shroud of mystery behind Parisports. You guys just do kind of like uh tech technology magic, right? And then you have these outputs. So when you describe Parisports and what you guys do, what uh how do you explain that to people?

Yeah, and that's definitely been, you know, kind of an interesting challenge for us, right? Like Pair definitely has a lot of kind of tentacles uh that that make up the platform. So sometimes it's it's a little bit of a challenge to kind of explain it in in one breath. Uh, but really think of it as a smart coaching platform. So evidence-based programming, training, coaching platform. That that's really what's at the core, is and and we call that training intelligence, right? So this is this is the smart AI engine that can that can figure out who you are, where you are in your journey, uh, from wellness and fitness, uh, what are you capable of, and what you should be doing, right? So that's that's really at the core. And then we have different delivery endpoints, right? We can deliver that experience to uh to a web app where you don't have to install anything. We can just send content directly over a QR code or a URL that pops up our web app. We can have uh a full-fledged mobile experience. Um, we can send it to your smart TV at home, we can send it to TVs inside a gym or studio, um, or we can send it directly to the console of a piece of equipment. So, really, once again, yeah, at the core of your smart programming, coaching platform, and then we have many kind of endpoints we can uh push it to. And you know, kind of making the bridge from when we started the company, there was kind of a long period of time where things had to catch up, right? Like uh computing power, sensor technology, and algorithms. So we definitely had a long stretch where our vision quite wasn't ready to come to the consumer. Also, I think the consumer mindset wasn't there, right? Because at the time when we launched, people still were their mindset was more like, oh, so you're you're like Fitbit, you you track things. I'm like, yes, we track things, but we're not so much about what have you done, we are about what you should be doing, right? So I think the consumer mindset really needed to catch up, and I think we finally are at this point where people understand what smart fitness can be.

I agree, and that has been something that has been a conversation on this particular podcast and amongst uh you know my professional conversations so much is like, okay, well, we have data, we've got that, right? We know how to collect it. That's that's established. But now the point of well, how do we make it valuable and and you know what what does the consumer, what does the coach how what do they find valuable, how do we deliver that to them? And then even going a step farther is how do we deliver value in ways that they didn't even think of? You know, where uh you know there there's concepts and ideas where someone we're just so stuck in our ways that we may not even know that we could do it a certain way now. And that that's uh that seems pretty critical to to what you guys are doing. And you know, to help me maybe further understand this too, Simon, is uh maybe give us a particular use case of how you guys have applied the platform um that would help us understand a little bit more detail.

Yeah, so there's there's we have a a bunch of different verticals, right? Like where we have we have chimps that use our platform, we have population health companies like United Healthcare that use our platform, but probably one of the ones that I'm pretty interesting is what we're doing with the Air Force. And within the Air Force, we have multiple deployments, like we have one app specifically for uh prenatal and postnatal uh training. Um, then we have one specifically for reservists, and I think that that's a really interesting use case. Uh, as you as you probably know, it on on average it takes the Air Force about costs about $80,000 to train a service member. Uh and then when they go into reserve and they're not on active duty anymore, they kind of lose access to the facilities, to the gyms, and all that, and oftentimes they, you know, they're not in great shape anymore, they don't work out as much, they don't uh you know do as much fitness as they did when they were active. Uh, and then when they come back to active duty, they have to pass a fitness test, and so oftentimes they fail that. And that basically then is $80,000 lost for the Air Force. And so we created uh the training app for reservists, right, to make sure they they train the right way, right? And once again, that's where training intelligence comes in, right? So that the sequencing of the workouts is right, that the you know the the periodization is right, but also tailored to who they are, because one service member might you know might be male or female, that already determines you know certain aspects of the programming. Uh, one service member might be loading ammunitions onto a jet, uh, the other you know, service member might be stealing a drone in an air-conditioned container in Arizona, so very different profiles of need. And so we have the smart and adaptive training app for service members, and I think that's a really good uh kind of a use case. And we do all these things with uh we're working on uh a uh a training platform for use female soccer players, same thing, right? Like much more prone to ACL injuries, uh, you know, female players versus male players. So that already informs the programming from a musculoskeletal standpoint, and so yeah, I think that those are really the things we're I'm I'm very fired up about and really kind of showcase our technology really well.

Yeah, those are those are really interesting topics um or applications of it. So when we talked prior to recording here, Simon, you had said something that I think kind of struck me as a very clear um I guess transformation or uh something that's going on right now in the industry. And you you put it in a word way that was just really simple for me to understand is we're we're going from dumb fitness to smart fitness. And uh, you know, as as interface as that statement is, I think it's pretty spot on. I really like it. So maybe uh if you can dive into that a little bit. What what are you seeing from a macro level that we are going from dumb fitness to smart fitness?

Yeah, no, it's it's a little crude, but it definitely, I think you know, that's that's what we've been working on for the last several years, right? Is is really this this this this massive shift from you know yeah, from dumb fitness to smart fitness, right? Where you know currently people just kind of find their content themselves, right? They go online, they go on YouTube, or or even on you know, on a system like Peloton or whatever. You the user is supposed to kind of find the content themselves and figure out how long, how hard, and what modality themselves, right? So there's there's no real guidance. And so Smart Fitness is really about bringing evidence-based programming to the table, right? So there's there's there's a curation engine that runs on on sound scientific uh you know uh rules, and and that what we're working on is to really create a comprehensive curation engine because you know that that makes sure that you get the right mix of load-in and recovery from a cardiovascular standpoint, but also from a strength standpoint, and also from a mobility standpoint, right? So it can't just be one, it needs to be because every time you you work out, it's a mix of those threes, right? Um, but yeah, it's really about knowing who the user is, uh what they're capable of, where they are on their journey, and they what they want to accomplish. And that informs then our engine to create a program. And really the important part, it needs to be an adaptive program, right? Because it's it's not like we can just give you a PDF, and some people can work like that, you know, they have a training plan, PDF, and they stick exactly to it. But the the reality is most people, I guess, one day you miss a workout, one day you do something outside of your plan, you go all out, and so the the plan needs to adapt, right? You miss a workout, the plan adapts. You you overperformed or you underperformed, it adapts. You might have bought a new piece of equipment, so all of a sudden you have a rower. And now the plan needs to know that hey, you have a rower now. Now we're gonna put that into the plan. And oh, maybe right now you have a knee injury. The plan needs to know that as well. So it constantly adapts to you and your surroundings and what's right for you. So that that really is the vision of smart fitness.

Yeah, it's beautiful. So there's a couple things, and I think you know, this this can go a couple of different ways, is those inputs could come through someone like a coach, right? Who's well qualified to do to make those adaptations. But even then, it's too much to handle as a coach, you know, you there's no scalability there if the if the central kind of you know point of contact goes through one person. And that's why I think this type of technology is, you know, some people might see it as a threat to the coaching industry, but I very much don't see it at all. I think it's a huge asset to trainers and coaches and and uh you know, to professionals in industry because ultimately what they want to be doing is working on the human side of the the transactions, right? Like helping people guide them through um, you know, why the training's important, their men, their their mindset about the training, and then those adaptations can be made really intelligently through intel uh technology way faster than the coach could probably get to it because you know we only have 24 hours in a day and we ought to sleep, and um you know, we can only handle so many so many uh clients as coaches. One of the things I you you touched on there, which I would love to get into, is you mentioned I think it was strength, recovery, and mobility. Those were kind of the three main points, or did I did I miss one? Um Yeah, so you have cardio strength and mobility though.

Yeah, that's that's a great question. So on on the cardio side, we're we're well covered, right? Because we have the wearables, so we see heart rate, we see heart rate wearability, we see sleep. Um, so we have a pretty good data set to work from to truly see the load and recovery and and make sure that that's that's well um balanced. Um when it comes to to strengths, uh obviously more more complex. Uh, but now you know there's companies like uh Shape Lock that we're working with. Uh I don't know if you're familiar with, but basically it's it's a small strain gauge that goes onto the cable of a selectorizing machine, like a cable-based, you know, steel plate cable-based strengths equipment. And they can basically sense the deflection of the cable. And now we know range of motion, we know force, we see power, we we see uh reps, obviously. And we can even see things like microchitters. So as soon as you start straining with your weight, we can actually the sensor sees that, right? So we could actually have a dynamic coaching on that, right? It's like it's like, hey, let's let's keep going on your chest press. And then once we see microchitters, say like, okay, time to either lower the weight or move on to the next exercise. So, really, really fascinating stuff. And so the next generation of of these kind of machines will have that already on it, right? So that's just a matter of time till the machines at the chimps are fully sensor equipped. Um, there's other things, computer vision is gonna be a big one, right? Where we can just use the camera of your phone or your TV, like this next generation of smart TVs will all have cameras built in. So we can actually use camera vision to see you know reps and accelerations and things like that. Uh, and also for mobility, right? So that's there's companies like Fismodo that we're working with that basically do a muscle skeletal scan, so they do a mobility screen and can see where you have deficiencies, right? So you do uh three squats in front of your smart TV or with your phone, and now we see like, hey, you have a lower back deficiency. So now that informs the programming. So now we can give you correctives or structure your your your your training in a way that can prevent you know, you know, back pain or can prevent ACL injuries. And so I think yeah, there's gonna be kind of a mix of of data intakes. And what's kind of beautiful is we can obviously then start triangulating and fusing them, right? So the more obviously data streams we have, the the more you know the smarter the system is and the better the curation is.

Yeah, yeah, I I've noticed uh you know, through my work with some companies in in this space is that you know the the hardest having the the inputs available to get the data are one thing, but getting the consumer to actually utilize those points of contact say wearables or Whoever may be is a whole nother thing. Um, adoption of this stuff. I mean, even if you look at like uh um I mean some of the bigger ones in the market, um you know, I don't know why I'm brain farting right now, but sometimes it's like, well, r risk real estate is a big deal, right? Like how much risk real estate are people willing to give up? And that's why I think Aura Ring has a, you know, of the major wearables has a significant advantage because it's a ring and it can be worn all the time and it's you know not that intrusive on their lives. But how um you know, when you start getting into the more intricate ways of of gathering data, it becomes more intrusive on the consumer. So I guess you know, when you look at the future of how you actually get people to provide the data um continuously and almost in the background, how how are you guys starting to tackle those challenges?

Yeah, that that's that's a major one, right? And that's why we are big believers in in open systems where we're somewhat agnostic to where the data's coming from, but also interoperability. I think that's going forward is is huge, right? We cannot be siloed off uh because the consumer expects us, you know, because you you might buy a new wearable or you might buy a new piece of equipment. And I think going forward, the consumer will just assume these things talk together, and you know, so and yeah, we can't silo off data. So I think that's that's a big a big focus of our platform is that we we can take data from Garmin, we can't take data from Aura, we can take data from your you know, from your new piece of equipment, um, and then to inform our curation as well. So it's gotta be open, uh, and yeah, and it's gotta be agnostic. Yeah, I know. One one area we see that very clearly is gyms, right? Because the reality is a chim might have uh a set of cardio equipment that's from pre-core, and then all the strengths equipment might be life fitness, and they have a bunch of technochim units, and each one of them offer their own digital solution, but that's compl and and it's the chimps hate it, obviously. They so there's there's we're working now with companies that basically can then take data from pre-core, from life fitness, from technochim, and then have kind of a gateway router where we can kind of suck in that data and then bring it back to the user of the gym and say, like, hey, here's what you have been doing, uh, and then really celebrate these insights. So it's not just data, it's just not numbers and graphs, but we want to bring it to life, we want to celebrate it and you know, celebrate the insights, right? Um, so like, hey, here's what we see, and here's what you should be doing, or uh, but it's also back to your point. This technology, I think, is gonna be amazing for for trainers and coaches. Like, like what the term we use a lot inside our team is we want to give superpowers to a coach. We we want we want to make the coach the hero, right? So we want to bring that data to a coach, and then the coach can reach out to one of the clients and say, like, hey, look, we just yeah, you just did a mobility scan and we noticed you we need to work uh on your lower back strengths, or or we saw a uh a right side shoulder issue. Let's hey let's let's do a complimentary session, let's figure out what's going on with you. And for a client, that's mind-blowing, right? It's like, oh, this this person really cares about me. She she actually reached out to me. It's like, hey, how can I help you? Because I saw this data about you. And I think that's the beauty, it's this kind of the tech and data aspect, and then linking it to human knowledge and and human outreach. And yeah, I think that's that's really kind of a beautiful model too that we're pursuing.

Yeah, I mean I'm a huge fan of that. And uh I I like anything that empowers the coach because I think it's so critical that we don't, you know, completely just attach ourselves to technology, which brings up a good question because uh, as I started to say earlier, is I'm I'm glad you're on here, because maybe you could help us dispel what is actually AI, what is actually artificial intelligence and what is not, because that term gets thrown around forever. A lot of people claim to be using AI. Um so give us some insights into how you differentiate between machine learning and AI and what is actually AI on the market.

Yeah, and you yeah, like like you said, AI is obviously thrown around very often and loosely. And uh, even though like our platform has machine learning and AI elements to it, but and I know obviously I'm by no means a true expert in this, but like real AI is like where you basically feed raw data into a computer model, and the computer kind of figures out the patterns and and the logic themselves without any underlying rules. And and so obviously that's not what we do, right? Like our curation engine um is is really based on on sound physiological models for exercising, right? These these these these are models that have been established over over decades, like you know, and are pretty universal to how you train, how you prioritization, you know, how you apply prioritization to training. Um so yeah, so we've that's why we we're very hesitant to call our our platform AI powered, even though it has aspects of that. But really, what it is, it's it's evidence-based programming um across you know different um, like I said, cardio strengths and mobility. So that's that's really uh a better way to look at it.

Nice. And I think one of the things that this leads into, which uh I've referred to as the kind of the holy grail of uh fitness, is how do we get um the fitness community, right? Fitness professionals and I I say health clubs, gyms, coaches, trainers, all of that, the whole profession. Uh how do we get them positioned um to be preventative healthcare and starting to tap into the whole healthcare system becoming a very integral, important part of that. And uh and really, I mean, honestly, doing more good would be the the overall goal, right? How do we do more good? How do we get our our you know our population um healthier? Because I mean, if you look at it, let's just be bluntly honest, fitness industry, like the last 30 years we have we do good work for a certain subset of the population, but we haven't made a dent. I mean, if you look at the United States or just Western countries in general, we're fatter, we're sicker, um, we're more depressed, and you know, we're all good people, we want to make an impact, but we've been for one reason or not, I don't think it's for lack of effort. We just haven't made as much of a dent as we would have liked to so far. And I think the the key to this is really tying into the healthcare system, uh, making sure that people position us as preventative healthcare, you know, companies and insurance companies, uh, you know, employers, all of that see that value and and get us there. And there's keys to doing that. So I'm curious when you look at this tremendously large problem, which leaves a tremendously large opportunity, uh, how do you see us addressing that and and connecting the two?

Yeah, that's that's obviously a massive challenge. And that's really the core question is right, like how can we motivate people that aren't already driven to do wellness and fitness and all that? I think we see a couple of things that I that I see happening that I find very encouraging. One of them is corporate wellness, for example, is is is kind of moving away from being this drab thing, right? Like historically, you you would get a United Healthcare app, right? It'd be it'd be branded United Healthcare, and it already would have the look and feel, and you know, uh it basically was yeah, hey, this is something my insurance company gives me or my employer gives me. And so now we're really seeing a shift to consumerize that experience, right? And that's you know, one of our brands is aptive, right? And so we we're getting a uh a lot of traction of aptive becoming uh a brand within corporate wellness. Uh, but it's not, yeah, it doesn't have that drab feeling of uh you know this this app was mandated by my insurance company, but it's like, hey, my my employer actually underwrites the subscription to Aptive, which is this cool consumer app that you probably would buy yourself already, right? Um, and so so that's there's more and more of that is happening. So the sexy brands you know that the consumers are drawn to are finding their way into population health. So I think that's one thing that that really needs to happen. Uh so we need to, and that's you know, that's my background as a designer. It's like it's gotta be it's gotta be attractive, it's gotta be aspirational, inspirational, because ultimately it's it's about how a user feels, right? Like when they use something. If it feels good, they will come back, right? And if they have fun, they will come back. And and we see that often with with our content, right? Like people, we have we have obviously a large range of different coaches on our platform, but people always gravitate towards two, three personalities because they like the attitude, they like the tonality, they like and and so we we feel fitness is very much about how we feel and about emotions. And if if we can access people through that mechanism, you know, with gamification, with beautiful user interfaces and user experiences, I think a lot that's gonna be a lot of the areas we need to get better at. And also, how can we bring data alive, right? And once again, instead of just giving you a number, what's the visual language of of fitness data? How can we celebrate that? How can we use that for engagement? How can we tie that to gamification? How can we tie that to reward systems? I that's kind of where where we see the opportunities to you know to to draw in more people and and retain people in a in a more effective manner.

You you just said something I want to dive into a little bit if you don't mind unpacking it, uh, the physical language of fitness, right? And maybe coming up with a common language. I mean, some of the projects I've worked on is um, you know, people have tried to derive like a singular score, right? Like this is your fitness score, or this is your wellness score, or um, you know, Insight Tracker has their um you know, their their inner score, which is like your biological age versus your chronological age, right? And how the two are are balancing out and you know, stuff like that. So when you look at, you know, maybe expand on on what you mean by that, that that physical language of fitness and and you know, maybe some possibilities in your mind, what that could turn out to look like. People age at different speeds, and the date on your license may not represent your inner biological age at all. If you're looking for ways to extend your health span and slow down the aging process, the keys to health and longevity run in your blood. That's why Insight Tracker provides you with a personalized plan to boost your metabolism, reduce stress, improve sleep, and optimize your health for the long haul. Created by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics, Insight Tracker analyzes your blood, DNA, and fitness tracking data to identify where you're optimized and more importantly, where you're not. You'll get a daily action plan with personalized guidance on the right exercise, nutrition, and supplementation for your body. Add interage 2.0 to any plan for definitive calculation of your true biological age to see how you're aging from the inside out. I was proud to find out I'm a few years younger than I thought I was. For a limited time, you can get 20% off the entire Inside Tracker store. Just go to inside tracker.com forward slash future to check it out, learn more, and get your own. It's insight tracker.com forward slash future. On to the show.

Totally, yeah. I think you know, uh Lifestom, you mentioned, but there's there's another company that that I think starting to do things the right way. It's called Humanity. I don't know if you played with it. They they have kind of an aggregate score, which is biological age, right? That's kind of like the top level score, but then they show the contribution scores, right? Here is your your mind, here is your your exercise, here is your nutrition. So so they have uh contribution scores, you know, kind of laddering up into that biological age. And I think that that's pretty powerful because then you can kind of figure out okay, I'm doing really well on the exercising side, but I'm not doing well on mindfulness, or I'm doing poorly on nutrition, or I'm doing poorly on mobility. I like so I think that's that's powerful for users. So because if you only have one score, then you don't know which areas you can improve on, or which areas you have to invest in. Um so I think that's definitely one of the better examples I've seen, and I think that's that's where we want to push more towards like how how can we create these amazing infographics that just without even having to think too much about what you're looking at, but kind of in you know, kind of in from an intuition level, you can kind of know what you're looking at and see like, oh you know, this area needs some work, and then you can like go, okay, what are the suggestions to bring that area up? Um I think that's that's really where where we see things going.

Um yeah, very interesting. I and I I want to you know dive back into this how that evolves into healthcare too, because that that's something to me that you know I I don't think I could we can talk about it enough, really. The you we had talked about previous recording of having, you know, um, and I I've put it in different terms on this podcast before, about having a common language that connects the medical community and the fitness community. Uh and how I think that's step one, right? Is how do we how do we agree upon progress or how we communicate about those things and and the processes that get us to where we want to go for processes very like you know, technical word for something that's very human of making people healthier, right, and happier and and living you know longer, healthier lives. So when you look at that, that connecting those two communities, the medical and the fitness, what what do you think is the most important things that we need to be doing and focusing on?

I think you know, as we're seeing this shift from, you know, when we when you talk to our uh uh plan you know partners in insurance and plan operators, we we we see this shift from care and treatment over to prevention and lifestyle, right? Like because obviously as anytime they keep somebody out of the health system, that's massive savings for them. Obviously, let's let's be clear about it. That's what what drives their interest, right? Is if I keep you out going in for a procedure, they just saved massive amounts of money and are very happy to subsidize anything that will keep you out of the the healthcare system. Uh, but I think it's really gonna go over, you know, once again, I think the the the emotional aspect, like can we make this fun? Can we gamify this? Can we make it rewarding? Um, and so I think that's you know, we see some interesting stuff. Like one of our partners, like we were working with uh uh some partners in Singapore, and I feel Singapore in many ways is is way ahead of what we do here because they definitely it's it's much more about responsibility of the individual, but they give the tools for them to succeed, and you know, they they had almost a genius bar experience for health. So they opened these these these centers that were beautiful. It looked like an Apple store, it looked like a genius bar, and that was open, it was funded by the government, it was open to to the citizens of Singapore, and they just go in and get counseled on what they should be doing, and they could you know purchase uh a subsidized wearable. And I think that's really where I would like to see things go, right? It becomes it, it doesn't feel like something that's medical, it doesn't feel like there's something wrong with me, but it becomes something positive. It's like I want to get better, right? Because the moment we tell people it's like okay, you're in bad shape or something's wrong with you, obviously, then we build a barrier. But if you had these really cool in you know, genius bar like experiences that elevate, it's like you know, that that draw people in that that's interesting. It's like, hey, here's what we know about you, and here's how we can help you get better. Uh to me, that makes a lot of sense. So I'd love to see more of that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a great vision. And you know, I I look at what we've done uh so far in fitness, and what's the most exciting thing to me about technology and how it's playing in is that we can we can start to make this interactive and fun, you know. Uh fitness for so long has been a task that needs to be checked off the list for the day, and sometimes you just don't get to it or you don't have the energy. And you know, even just talking to a colleague of mine the other day, he's he was like, I don't know if I want to go. I'm like, just show up to the gym, right? He's like, I really don't want to. And that that's always been the thing. And like, well, if you just show up, maybe something good will happen. But if you don't show up, nothing will happen. And um, you know, but now there's so many ways to make fitness and activity and and getting people, I guess, um uh to take control of their health, right? To actually advocate for their own health and not leaving that responsibility up to someone else. But we can do it now in an educating, fun, engaging way through through lots of bits of technologies. And um, you know, there's something specific I want to touch on with you, which is, you know, uh, we talked about having some kind of currency in healthcare, right? Whether that be tokenization or something like that, that kind of connects, you know, the the consumer's thoughts and energy and time with better health outcomes. So uh if you can just explain that to me a little bit more and to our audience as well.

Yeah, and then I think we touched on that a little bit. It's like, you know, like what can we do to to engage a person, right? And then it's just human nature. We we love to play, so gamification is going to be a big part. So uh other aspects are always the earning things, be rewarded. Once again, very much a basic human uh kind of behavior. Um, and so one thing we're we're really interested in is like how how can we create some kind of a fitness currency, but that isn't linked to actual you know fiat or actual dollars necessarily, but it becomes more a utility token that that opens up things to me that I can trade, um, you know, or you know, I can bring it to my employer, or I can bring it to my insurance company for a premium deduction, or I can bring it into a marketplace where I can trade it for products or services. Um, and that obviously requires a translation layer to truly know what did you do. So we so there's not fraud, right? So, and and I think we're with our platform we're we're well positioned to be that translation layer. So we can we can authenticate who the user is and we can see what they've you know, what what have they been doing, but also make sure that it's actually beneficial to them, that whatever they do is actually you know good for their health and not detrimental to their health. Um, and so yeah, so I think there's a there's a huge opportunity to gamify this and have a portable currency that then yeah, that then can be traded, that can be donated, you know, that could be, you know, you could donate that to a cause that you believe in. Um so yeah, I think that could be a really interesting ecosystem of this kind of fitness token.

How close are we to that? I mean, uh I I'm asking that because you know, you and I were joking before about an experience you had with uh all altered reality glasses. I don't know if you want to talk about it, it might have been in a private meeting, but you know, it's so many times I have conversations with people and I'm shocked at how far along the technology is. You know, I always we have this thing of like, oh, the future's in the future, you know, like 2040 uh is when all this crazy stuff's gonna happen. But actually, a lot of it's happening right now, like a lot of the technology is far far beyond what people think it is. Um, so when you look at something like that, like a you know, a fitness currency and um you know tokenization of that, well, how how close are we, man? Are we are we there yet?

I mean, yeah, this one is right around the corner because the infrastructure is there. Oh, you know, as you know, there's so many different tokens and cryptos, uh, that that is already there. I think it's more about can we create a a good consortium of partners? I think that's that's more important. So the technology is already there. We can very easily do it. It's more like who participates in this, right? Like, do you know, because we would, in order for this to be a thriving marketplace, we we want to have the insurance companies be part, we will want to have you know uh parallel manufacturers be part of this, we want to be, you know, um nutrition partners. So I think it's just a matter of really bringing a kind of a critical mass together of partners. So it feels like an expansive and fun and you know ecosystem. So it's not just like you know, all you can do with this token is one thing, but you can really move around and go to different you know partners and and use it in different ways. I think that's really the challenge here. But yeah, I think we're very close to it. Interesting, very cool.

Uh you know, when you when you look at the you you have your hands and eyes on so many different types of technologies, uh, and we've barely talked about a dozen of them just in this last 40 minutes. But if there's a couple of things maybe that uh get you the most excited, right? New technologies or things like that you're really keeping an eye on right now. Uh give us some insights. What what what are they? And I I know there's probably many, many of them, but maybe give us give us a couple nuggets.

That's a tough one because there's so many. I think on on top of mind, I definitely think computer vision is gonna be at least in the short term, short term, the most disruptive. Because it's it's it's just there without you having to put something on, or do you have to charge it, or so the fact that your smart TV could see you know you what you're doing and do rep counting and make it interactive, right? Holds you kind of if you know, holds you to compliance and and and motivates you in real time. So I think computer vision we're gonna see across a lot of applications. Um and then there's actually one thing that that uh one of the Google divisions has been working on. It's it's almost like computer vision, but without a camera. So it's not intrusive of a way like I put a camera in your house and I see you walking around. But it's almost more like a radar. And what I one thing that came, you know, we're working with some elderly care companies right now, and a big challenge with elderly care is always like, oh, yeah, you're gonna put an Apple Watch on the elderly person, but they might not put it on, they might not charge it. So it has a lot of issues there. But this thing that Google has been working on is it's almost like a radar for your home. You just put it in there and it kind of sees how often you move around, how often you sit up or sit down. It could even see a gate change, which oftentimes could be an indication that something changed, right? Or some something is off. That could be massive, right? We could very early on, we could see like, hey, this person doesn't didn't go out of bed the same time as they normally do, or they don't move as much around the apartment as normally do. That could then trigger uh an alert to their physician, right? To me, that that's super cool, right? They have this kind of uh thing sitting in your home that's that's not intrusive, but that kind of looks after you. So I think that's that's really interesting. Uh nutrition is something that I'm hugely into, and that's been kind of a hard way to quantify. But now you have companies like Lumen that actually you know analyze your your breath and can see like, are you burning you know carbs, are you burning fat? To me, that is super exciting too, because now for the first time you have a way to kind of look into nutrition. And same thing with glucose patches, right? Like companies like Abbott or Dexcom up till now operated only in in the in the diabetic space, right? It was purely about uh uh seeing your glucose for for diabetic reasons. But now companies like Super Sapiens take that into the lifestyle space, right? Like how well are you fueled for a workout, right? And that's pretty cool. And now you can triangulate that with heart rate data, and you can kind of correlate glucose versus how much you were been working out and what kind of workouts. So that's triangulating these kind of data streams, I think, is is really fascinating and exciting to us.

Man, you you are uh you are in a very interesting position, and you know, to to be kind of in the middle of so many of these different technologies and figuring out, I mean, if I could put it you know into one sentence, is you're figuring out how to make it all useful.

And uh it is it's a tough spot, but it is a key spot. And like, and I don't know, you tell me if how how poor of an analogy is, but we really think we think of ourselves as a Dolby of wellness and fitness. We want to be that that smart ingredient that makes things better, right? Like we we want to be that you know as as Dolby is for for for music and for for for TV, you know, like fidelity. Like really pair is is that ingredient, right? That that takes makes it makes you you know make makes a better experience, makes you you know progress in in your health and your wellness and in your performance.

Yeah, I I I think that's a great analogy. And uh you know, I want to respect your time here, so I want to get into my my final question that I asked just about everybody, but what uh what do you need right now, Simon? Like what are some of the biggest needs that you have as an entrepreneur, as pair has as uh you know a company? What what uh you know as far as who who do you want to hear from?

Yeah, like I I think I touched on a little bit. I think collaboration is really where I I think I would love to see more. Like I think we're well past companies being siloed off, right? Like that's just not what the consumer is looking for or expects. Um, so we have to find ways to to be an open kind of ecosystem and and and you know work with each other. Uh so that's definitely one of the main things. Um so we we we don't put up boundaries between brands or you know, things like that. Yeah, that that'd probably be my main my main wish is is it's more a collaboration and a more more seamless, more portable experience. That you know, so I can go seamlessly from because one day I go to the gym, the other day I'm gonna be at a hotel, then I'm at home again, and then I'm outside, and our the experience just needs to seamlessly move with you. And same same way for incentivizing, right? Like let's say I I've been really diligent with my health and wellness, and I just walk into the next Whole Foods or Sweet Greens, and my, you know, let's say my insurance company just basically pays for my meal at Sweet Greens, right? Without me having to do anything specifically or open an app, right? But that's all kind of built in seamlessly. So I think this this portable, seamless experience is is really, I think, where where yeah, uh I I would like to see.

It's a beautiful dream, Simon. It's a beautiful dream. And uh, you know, I appreciate you coming on and sharing all the insights and value and uh giving us, you know, really kind of a reality check of where everything is and where it can be. It's it's it's super exciting. And you know, I I uh I'm always torn with technologies. Like, do we want more attachment, more involvement with technology and data and our lives? Um, or do we want less? Like what's healthier? I don't know. But either way, all I know is like this is happening.

Yeah, I have to I have the same the same feeling as you is like like where you know is this gonna actually kind of work in the background and just purely serves a better experience, or is it is it in the foreground and starts to be intrusive and takes a lot of your attention? But yeah, it's been really fun to to kind of talk about our space and kind of spitball different different areas, but also hopefully maybe take a little away from the mystery of what pair does and just kind of give you an insight of what we're all about and what we're working on. So thanks for that opportunity to talk talk about that.

It's my absolute pleasure, man. And other than going to pairsports.com, uh, is there any place you you want people to go if they want to reach out to you, um talk about collaborations? Where would you like to send them?

Yeah, definitely uh go to our website, but absolutely you know, contact me on on LinkedIn or you know, uh also check out apt diff, which is our kind of consumer-facing platform. Um, but yeah, those two, pairsports.com, apt diff, and yeah, reach out to me on LinkedIn or wherever.

Well, thank you so much for joining me. This is really informative and super valuable. And uh yeah, ladies and gentlemen, Simon Solberg.

Yeah, thanks, Eric. Right back at you. It's a pleasure.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futurofitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.