Panel Discussion - AI in Fitness: Separating Signal from Noise with Industry Leaders

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to future of fitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. Since launching in 2012, they've consistently had one mission: facilitate the best customer experiences with the most cutting-edge solution for franchises, studios, games, and boxes. Whether it's AI, new features, new partnerships, and new markets, TeMUP sites are set on raising the bar of the industry to enable their customers to perform and operate at the highest level locally, nationally, and overseas. However, the most reliable APIs in the market, you can deliver premium customer experiences that failure fit identified with the strongest technological infrastructure our industry has to offer. Empower your staff, engage your members, and unlock the next chapter of growth to software design for you. For a limited time, get a very generous 50% off your first month. To redeem the offer, simply contact the TeamUp Sales team and use the promo code the FutureOffFitness. At goteamup.com at G-O-T-E-O-M-U-P dot com. Hey friends, this is Eric Balzone, and this episode of Feature of Fitness is brought to you by the Podcast Collective. Since our inception in 2023, we have emerged as the fitness, health, and wellness industry's premier podcast placement agency. We're honored to work with many of the industry's most prominent technologists, thought leaders, startup founders, and business executives. Why? Because they recognize that being on podcasts is the most effective way to authentically connect with their specific target audiences and rapidly grow a lucrative professional network. From podcast placements to speaking engagements, go-to-market strategies to investor relations, and media kits to press releases, the podcast collective brings a level of professionalism and deep industry expertise that can only be achieved by spending decades in the trenches. If you are a startup founder, business executive, emerging thought leader, or simply a savvy operator that understands the power of authentic media, learn more at podcastcollective.io and feel free to book a 30-minute strategy session with yours truly. Traditional media is dying on the vine. Podcasts are rising quickly to fill the void. Do not miss the boat. That's podcastcollective.io. All right, we are officially off. So uh thank you everyone for joining us. And I'll get on to my uh beautiful attendees here, uh or sorry, panelists here in a second. But my name is Eric Malzone. I will be your uh moderator for the next 45-ish, 60-ish minutes. And uh we want to talk about artificial intelligence. And I I know that there is a lot of noise within the industry about artificial intelligence. And I'll go ahead and say there's a lot of snake oil when it comes to artificial intelligence. Everybody feels the pressure to use it, get it, try it, do something with it. And what we're here to do, and the panel of experts that we have here for you today, is kind of decipher like, okay, well, what's actually working? What's worth your time right now? What's worth your time in the long run? Uh, and what can we do that's actually actionable? So the goal here is for everyone on the call one or two things concepts, ideas, action items, things that you can do in the next 30 days to improve your business, drive revenue, drive retention, and uh, you know, hit those KPIs that we all need to hit. So really appreciate everyone jumping on. I'm gonna go through the panel here. So my left is Taylor Nakamura. He is the vice president at Fit19. So they have about 38 plus locations, mostly in California. And you'll get to know him really well during this call. We have Spencer Spencer Honeyman. He is the chief commercial officer at V, who is the sponsor for this uh this webinar. So thanks for allowing this to happen, Spencer. And uh last but not least, certainly, is Florian Souther. He is the chief technology officer and co-founder at eGym, who has been having some spectacular years recently. And uh yeah, so let's let's get into it, you guys. I'm gonna start with a broad question for everybody and then we'll get everybody to answer it. But uh here it is. Beyond the buzzwords, how is artificial intelligence fundamentally changing the economics of the fitness industry in ways that weren't possible just two to three years ago? So, Spencer, why don't we go ahead and start off with you?

Happy to uh to chime in and appreciate the opportunity with this group. I think what I would say to that initially, Eric, is I think artificial intelligence is a lot of things are getting conflated into artificial intelligence. So I think you've got everything from predictive analytics, which is how do we use historical data patterns to predict feature behaviors, machine learning is how do we optimize that feedback loop kind of A-B testing on steroids. And we've got generative AI, which is like ChatGPT and some of the cool tools that are out there today. And they're all at different stages and being used in different ways. So that's my vague, high-level way of how we think about it, at least at V. And I think what we're really seeing change is A, we call it precision targeting. So the ability to use data and feedback loops to be really targeted with the right people on the right channel at the right time, whether it's a prospect, lead, or a member. And I think the wave that we're investing in through some MA and RD that is coming is more the generative AI, which is okay, you've got the right person on the right channel at the right time. Now, how do you personalize that content to them, whether it's an Instagram ad, whether it's an email, so it really resonates with them? I would say the other thing that we're seeing, and I'm biased here, so I'm talking my own book a little bit, but we we spent eight figures investing in third-party consumer behavior data. So I think one thing we've found really powerful in the fitness industry, whether it's a health club, a studio, and home connected fitness wearable, et cetera, is what is that person doing outside of your physical or digital ecosystem? And that data, which is publicly available if people consent to it, where we licensed from aggregators can really help you better serve them in that ecosystem. So, in short, I think AI is helping reduce cost per acquisition, drive LT TV, drive down costs. There's a lot of different ways to use it. And it's really about uh sort of that hyper-personalization, being predictive and personalized.

Yeah, fantastic. Uh Taylor, what's your what's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think from you know, being in clubs and working with teams all the time, I think it is allowing our teams to really spend most of the time with their what they're really good at. And for most of us, it's it's fitness and and for a lot of it it's sales and service. And so uh, you know, prior to a couple of years ago, I I felt like you know, pre-AI, you spend a lot of time trying to dig for for data or or like Spencer was saying, the right people to connect with. And you could spend a couple of days doing that and still not feel like you're you've made any progress forward. And uh, and so I think it allows us to focus on what we love doing, impacting people the most and and taking some areas off our plates that maybe necessarily you got into fitness and you're not necessarily an expert in, but you love fitness and and to stay competitive, there's a lot of there's a lot of other areas you need to be good at to drive members into your gym. And so and and so for a lot of ways, I think uh AI is also kind of leveling the playing field. I think a lot of this data seemed like it was only available or some of these tools uh to get us information was only set for maybe huge players that could, you know, have a huge data team or this massive team to get all this this uh information you need to be successful in the fitness space. And now it seems like it's you know available for for really just about anybody, yeah, as small as one location up to you know thousands of locations. And so I I think it's it's really leveled the playing field and allowed us to to focus on what we love doing, uh, which is impacting members and focus on fitness inside the locations.

Yeah, excellent. Uh for him.

Yeah, I I think building on what you said, Taylor, I think it's uh the E-Gym, of course, a bit the E-Gym perspective to uh look especially at what happens on the training floor. And I think thinking about what AI can do, I totally believe there's a lot of areas where we can see productivity gains. There's for sure super interesting applications on the marketing and sales side. But what I think uh as a gym operator, I would be concerned about is what's my core product and how can I really improve on that. And this is a bit the perspective that we are uh trying to take from an e-gym side to see how can this technology can help us to better serve the member in their journey and really pick them up where they are. And at least from what we've seen over the over the last couple of years, it's still a huge challenge to properly onboard and guide people who are not expert users, but rather intermediates, beginners, even. I think there's still a lot of this gym intimidation. People want to do something, but but they don't know how. And I think AI really can provide us with uh a big uh tool set on how we can try to tackle this long-standing challenge from a new perspective. And I think there are several elements to that. There's a lot we can now do with more data that's accessible, uh, then also on the large language model side, of course, that opens up new channels of interaction we can use. And and I think what what we should really think about a lot is how to really make that core experience better by using AI. And I think this is also where we see big progress over the last few years.

Yeah, awesome. You know, it it uh it reminds me that I think it was two or three years ago we were talking about the Health and Fitness Association conference, and I was I I watched a panel of people talking about artificial intelligence. And this was just kind of right in the beginning, and the room was packed. It was it was packed. Everyone wanted to know what was going on. It was some panelists were talking about, you know, the writing newsletters, writing job descriptions, which is great, right? It was in an infancy we didn't really know what to do yet. But Omri, the the founder of V, was there and he was talking about achieving better health outcomes through artificial intelligence and data. And I was like, that's it. That's a conversation I want to be having, which I think is really important, which is part of why why most of us are in this industry is like we want better health and fitness outcomes for our clients. So getting into the individual questions, I'm gonna go ahead and stick with you, Florida, because this is right on point. So eGim has created the industry's most comprehensive connected fitness ecosystem. Uh, how are you helping operators drive results for the members and clubs? And what role does data play in that process?

Yeah, so so maybe let's start with the data side, which I think is still the basis to do any kind of AI still. You somebody need to build that on something. And I think that's the first point where I think in gyms today there there is not, there's a big lack of data of what's happening on the training floor, really, right? We have quite a lot of data around basic things like attendance. There's quite some data on the marketing side, on behavior. But when it comes to the actual workout and whether people really achieve their goals or not, I think this is where it becomes very thin today. And that's something that we are trying to tackle as a first point with the ecosystem that we're building, making much more of that uh tracking data available, not just what people have done, but really also focusing on the outcomes, doing these regular assessments and seeing how people are progressing. And uh I think that's a prerequisite if you really want to do something meaningful. Um, and I wouldn't even say that the AI is the big headline here. For me, AI is always best when it's not really visible. So for me, this should be naturally become part of their user journey. And I think the way from a user perspective, how I would like to experience uh AI and the technology around it is really just that I feel, yeah, that there's something that's personalized for myself. There's something that helps me in this particular situation. And this is really the the focus that we're trying to take here. Of course, this means we can make trainers more productive. We can maybe take off some of the tedious work of, I don't know, writing a chain training plan manually or setting up machines and helping them to focus more on the member interaction or on other value creating tasks. But but I think the core should still be to help the member to achieve whatever goal they've been setting. And uh, I mean, this is not something that translates to a direct dollar immediately. I think the the stance I would take is let's rather make the core product so much better that everything else will follow. With a better product, it will be easier to get members in, to retain them. And I think that's where really the the bottom line uh improvement comes from.

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Tia, let's move on to uh to your your specific question here. So 38 locations, like we talked about. How do you ensure your team is actually leveraging the AI tools you've implemented rather than just letting it become another unused item that just kind of sits around and gathers dust? Like how are you getting them to actually participate?

Yeah, I think it first starts off with you know going to the team and uh explaining really the why of or why we're using it before we get into the the how. I think having our leadership team really bought in on any tool we implement is super important. If not, it just it just gets put in the back of their head and it never gets used again. And I think there's some misconception behind AI where you're just gonna purchase this product or work with a company and it's just gonna do everything on its own. There's still so much uh, I think interaction, while it still saves you time, the the uh gyms that are gonna use it best are ones that are still going to make sure that their brand and voice is heard through their AI, they're training it, and their team is utilizing that information to make a more personalized uh approach with with their with their members. And so some things that we do is, you know, obviously we're gonna get everybody excited about it, but then we are baking in some usage KPIs. So we have dashboards in there to see, you know, is our team actually utilizing the product? Well, so one of the products that we use is we are partnered with B and we're very big on the retention side. And so we have a built-in dashboard by location to uh see what is the the contact rate that our team is making, and are they making 100% of the the calls that we're we're asking them uh you know to make. And so I think having reporting with any AI uh that you're putting in, stuff that you can track to see is my team actually utilizing it. I think something else that's really big uh and what we know from our team is I think it's important to align people's uh motivation and and compensation around uh tools that you're putting in. And so a lot of times you put in this retention tool, for example, and everybody's just motivated and paid off of new joins, new joints, new joins, and then you're like, hey, go use this retention tool. And and then they have the option to try to service members and uh and and uh reach out to people who are potentially you know at risk for canceling, or they have this big list of reads, you know, the big list of leads is gonna give it every time if that is the only thing that you guys are are for forcing and and and paying them off of. So I think aligning those, it doesn't have to be directly correlated to you know usage and and how many calls you made, but maybe it's through membership growth and and and explain to your team how does retaining members impact that. And uh, you know, maybe it is through you know cancellations and nutrition percentages. So I think there's a lot of ways you can get creative that make sense to your business. But I think aligning people's goals with the tools that you're using, I've seen in our clubs be the most effective. And and really getting that buy-in of like, why are we doing this? I think there's also some nervousness around AI. People feel like, oh man, we're in treating this person's privacy. So really explaining it and how it's actually gonna benefit them in the long run. And and a lot of this information is uh Mike Spencer mentioned mentioned available. Uh, you know, you're not sneaking in their house and taking it from them. So uh I think you know, getting people ex accepting what it is and and how we're gonna use it, I think there's a lot we get a lot more buy in that way as well.

Yeah, awesome, awesome, Taylor. I'm curious with the retention piece. I mean, uh it's it's easy to motivate people financially for generating new new leads and new members, right? But is there have you guys freed out an efficient, effective way to incentivize staff for retention? Like, is that is that something you guys have sorted out?

Yeah, I think retention, uh, you know, where you're doing a good job with that, there is uh uh obviously a huge revenue impact, and and most of that is gonna be on uh membership growth, you know. And so I think getting your your team to understand that membership growth doesn't just come from from new joints. And and we can see it all the time. Sometimes we have amazing months, you have tons of new joins, but you're losing members at a faster rate. And and so I think we put a big focus on uh membership growth and uh and align, you know, some some conversations around that. And so our team is fully focused on retaining members and seeing the benefit. And and you can go through the data and see some locations aren't signed up as many people as others, but they're growing at a faster rate because they're so great at the service side, you know, and you know, delivering a great product in club and and doing all the little things that it does to take members uh takes to keep members. So um, we really align it with that on on overall membership, membership growth, and not just new joints. Yeah, awesome.

Uh Spencer, this next one's for you. Uh so operators like Taylor have had the timeless challenge of knowing which members to contact when they're managing 10, 12,000, 20,000 members within their gym. Uh, how does V's technology solve the prioritization problem?

Yeah, so I think depending on on the nature of your location, it can be quite different. So we work with an operator that has a couple thousand locations, and I think the average member count is in the 400 to 500 range, and then we have others that are 15,000 plus, and that's a very different uh operational challenge to your question. So I think a couple things. Our goal at V, as you mentioned uh from Omer, our founder, ultimately is to help people live healthy and active lifestyles. And the way we do that is by partnering with everyone from fitness operators to healthcare providers to even we do clinical trials and biopharm and life sciences. So we want to go across that spectrum. And where we believe AI at its current state is most impactful is to sort of amplify human potential, which means there are things that should be automated. There's definitely uh the authentic human touch, which is really powerful. So to answer your question directly, what we try to do is say, okay, if you have 10,000 members, A, not all of them want to be called uh on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. I'm one of those people that would not want to be here. I wouldn't answer and it would probably annoy me, to be completely honest. So it's looking at those 10,000 members and the data that you have access to through your member management or the different systems where they've consented. And then what we also look at is hey, in our data, we invest eight figures a year on that third-party licensed consumer behavior data, and we can see things that can be red alerts. So if someone's consented and we can see URL visitation, we work with a client, let's say Planet Fitness is a competitor. If they go to planetfitness.com, probably want to raise a red flag there, and someone on Taylor's team would want to call them, right? And say, hey, like, wouldn't say we can't tell Taylor and his team that they did that, but we can say, hey, this person's at risk, give them a call, checking on their goals, as Florian mentioned, or how things are going. And so how are you precise and targeted with the Who? There are some people that you don't need to worry about. And I think the ability to take that precision targeting approach using historical and ongoing data, using the 360 view of that publicly available data that we license. So you can look at five to 10 people per location per day that really need that touch to keep them retained before they churn. Once they cancel 90% of the time-ish, it's going to be too late. And also it creates huge upsell opportunities to maximize lifetime value. So if someone searches Ozempic or GLP1, that's not necessarily churn risk. If they're like what we've learned from the health data, if that's a female who's above a certain age, where there's bone and muscle mass issues and density issues, that could be a great opportunity to upsell personal training. And so our goal is on in a near real-time basis to better leverage data, to prioritize who needs a human touch, what can be automated, who you should leave alone and let sleep, so to speak, and then be able to give a directional prompt to that person making an outreach of what would change that individual's behavior that will maximize the business outcome and also lead them to a better health outcome.

Yeah. Also, you know, Spencer, I'm I'm guessing a lot of people are listening, they're probably asking the same question. It's in my head is like, well, where do you get all that data from? You know, that that sounds amazing. So yeah, where do you get all that data from?

We don't collect any data. So one, if we work with a client, we would ingest historical and ongoing de identified data from an ABC, a DAXCO, a MindBody, or wherever their data is coming from. And we can see some usage patterns, contract types, all that stuff, which is really helpful, both in the location and maybe digitally if they have an app. Where we can see engagement there. We don't collect any data. So we we spend $45 million a year licensing data from over 50 third-party data sources. It's kind of like the opposite of an Experian. If you're familiar with like the lookalike data sets, it's at the device ID level where people have consented through an app or a website to share what they search, what websites they visit, what products they purchase, what media they consume. And it's all tokenized, it's all de-identified, and we can't see the actuals. But you could set up as an operator, if anyone searches New Health Club near me or a competitor or visits a Reddit thread that you think would indicate churn or an upsell opportunity or watches a YouTube video, we can create triggers off of those different consumer behaviors that can either raise a flag for human outreach or automate an email or a message or an app push.

Awesome. Yeah, God, it's fascinating. Florien, I have a question for you. It's, you know, I guess from my personal curiosity, as much as anybody on this panel, but what emerging health data applications do you see having the biggest impact on fitness business models in the next like two to three years?

Yeah, I think this theme of connecting fitness and health is really something that we have been thinking about quite a bit. And I think to really shift this healthcare business from a repair business to a prevention business, the the DIM ministry is actually quite well set up. But I think what we are lacking here is there's quite some studies. And the the I think the proof is quite clear that essentially any kind of workout, but especially a targeted and personalized workout, can really yield tremendous health outcomes and can probably help all those people suffering from back pain and from all these widespread diseases. But I think what we really can't prove very well so far as an industry is that the gym really is part of the solution here. And I think this became very evident during the COVID times. I think, at least here in Germany, gyms were classified just as places for leisure activities, like any other, like the cinema next door. But gyms were not recognized as part of the healthcare system. And I think this is something that we, together as an industry, really can change. And I guess the data part is really important there to create the evidence that we really can move the needle here. So I think it's really worth investing into that so we can much more clearly show that these personalized, targeted workouts for many of these conditions we're seeing out there really make a difference. So, in terms of uh impact, uh, I think this could be something for the next couple of years that, from my perspective, makes a huge difference, just for the fact that this healthcare problem is just so big and it's ever growing. So compared to where the gym industry is today, I think it's just a huge, untapped opportunity.

Yeah. Yeah, I I 100% agree. It's something we've been talking about for a very long time. And I think COVID accelerated the conversations, provided a little more context. And I'm seeing a lot of really big players moving in this direction. And one of which just comes to mind is uh Dr. Glory Winners at YMCA. I had her on my podcast not too long ago, and she was talking about how they're developing kind of the forefront health care system of the future, and that's their plan. And you're we're so well uh situated to do it, and I think it's really time that we we rise up and we take we grab it. It's it's time. So yeah, excellent point for it. Um Taylor, for you and you and I had a conversation, I think, last week in preparation for this panel. And one of the things that struck me, and I think this is very actionable for operators, but you've been using artificial intelligence to manage reviews across your locations. How has this impacted both your operational efficiency and your ability to attract new members?

Yeah, definitely. I think you know, reviews play such a big part uh in our businesses, such a competitive landscape. And and you know, one of the first things people do when they're searching for a gym is they start reading through the reviews and and seeing what what are people saying about it. And I think well, one of the challenges we were running across was just finding the time to make sure that we responded to every review. And so we we we don't have our in-club team do it. Uh, we we do it from a district management level and they oversee, you know, multiple locations. And so we really want it, we really want to make sure that we hear it at the top and so we can make changes, you know, to to our whole entire business if it's something we're seeing across, you know, uh multiple locations. And so our district manager level is was handling that and and we found it was just hard for with all the other duties that they were doing to respond to every review. And I think what takes the most time in it was just thinking about what you're gonna say and and and putting it in a polished way that was uh take your emotion out of it. So many gym operators, like we're so passionate about our club, and so we can hear something negative and be so quick to react that it was uh not that way, you know. And and uh and and really, you know, some people might think like, oh, you know, with the AI, you know, helping generate responses, are you really hearing the customer? And and what I would say is that I don't I don't think that the customer leaving possibly a negative review really cares much about the response online. What they care about is the action taken afterwards. And so this allows all I and our team to get the response out, but then just really spend most of their time talking with that member and not spending time figuring out what should I stay online? Typically, the response is actually for your future customers. And so they're the ones reading it. They just want to see that a business is reaching out, that they're addressing the problem. But the person actually leaving the review, they want you to contact them, they want, they want some type of resolution and uh the response isn't really going to do much for them. And so starting to think about that as you know, us saying we want responses on every review so so that people looking uh online or seeing that we are are we are getting back to people. There were so many times we were getting back to people personally and addressing that issue, but nobody knew we handled it. And so now we just look like, you know, that we don't care about a negative experience. And and so it helped us with that. And then we take that that data and look at for sentiment that is uh universal across multiple reviews at certain locations, and and we could see certain things that it's certain uh uh words that we it builds a word cloud for us, and we could see, oh man, cleanliness is is a negative word that's being used uh frequently in this in this area or this club. And and so we're able to go and take action, go to those locations, address that right away. Maybe it's personal trainers, and we're like, oh man, what's going on with our personal trainers? And on the flip side, it could be really good things and say, oh man, this service and staff here is great. So we're able to acknowledge those team members, maybe pick future leaders out of that location when we want to expand our service in other areas. And so I think reviews can tell you a lot about your business. Um, I think it's important that you're responding uh, you know, to them for especially for future customers and and then really spending the time actually addressing those issues in your locations and and with the people that that had the problem if it was negative. And obviously, like I said, if it's positive, which you know, hopefully you're getting a ton of positive reviews, you can continue to build on that and uh and uh make better decisions inside your club. So it's been strong for us, and you know, the more reviews you have, we're seeing an impact in uh you know, more lead generation on Google, you know, so you're popping up in that Google three pack, and and so we're we're seeing a lot uh of positive momentum and lead getting leads as well from positive reviews.

Yeah, awesome. And I mean there's obviously a million benefits to that, right? But have you guys been able to track that tangibly to anything on a monetary side, like as far as revenue or retention? Is that have you able to make that direct uh attribution?

Um, you know, we don't have a direct attribution there. What we have seen though is we have vocations that are obviously have more reviews than than other clubs and the ratings are better. And those clubs were typically seeing, you know, a higher lead count coming in, versus our clubs that are maybe a little bit lower rating in competitive areas. So, you know, not an exact dollar figure, but we're seeing definitely positive responses in our clubs that are really maximizing reviews and getting back to getting back to responses uh in a timely manner for sure. We also see a you know a reduction in cancellations if our if our uh managers can get ahead of the problem quicker, you know, and and people are actually getting responded back to. So yeah, so we are seeing positive, positive trends there.

And is there a a tool that you'd like to recommend to people or are you still kind of figuring out the right one for that?

Um, I think we're still can figure out the right one for us. We're you know, we all say we're using a company called Sochi. They use more, they do uh uh reputation management, they also do listing, a bunch of other things. So I think you know, we're still open to exploring. I think as we mentioned in this call uh earlier, there's so much stuff, you know, that uh you get constantly contacted by by AI all the time. So uh we've been pretty happy with it so far, but we're always you know looking to see what's next and seeing if there's other ways we can expand on that. But yeah, so I think that's a coming to reason right now for anyone that's interested.

Okay, awesome. Thank you for that. Uh Spencer, so Taylor mentioned also that they're beginning to use your platform for uh personal training leads uh for generation of those leads. What are you seeing in terms of revenue expansion opportunities beyond just basic retention?

Yeah, so I think what we want to help our clients do is use data across the full life cycle from prospect acquisition to lead conversion to engagement to retention to upsell. Ultimately, I think uh most businesses are a cact LTV business. And so we want to be able to drive that full life cycle, whether it's media, CRM, human communications, we're agnostic to where that audience or trigger goes. And I think one of the things that's typical of the fitness industry, Fit19 and Taylor's team being the exception here, but the more average operator, Taylor, that's mine. You plug V. So I'll plug you guys back for tat. I'll then move you later. Is I think PT is usually something that's done when someone you try to sell PT when someone starts a membership in that first four, eight to 12 weeks. And then maybe there's like a follow-up that's time-based on that's ongoing, but it's not really based on that individual's behavior, uh, especially not what they're doing outside of the club. And so I think what we see as an opportunity is to better leverage data to find that optimal point in time to upsell personal training. So everything we do at V is against a control group, which is time-based, what we would call sort of business as usual, one or a few sizes fits all communications. And so when it comes to PT, we measure PT conversion and then PT retention or PT dollars, if you will. And so it's not as simple as like, hey, someone's been coming in the club a lot, offer them PT. It's also not the same as like, hey, they used to come in and they don't come in. I think what you want to try to do is piece together in the club, outside of the club, their overall consumer behavior. And like I mentioned earlier, like I think a great opportunity that we see, I won't say it's across all different types of clubs, but if someone was very active, they have a big uh drop-off period, at least in terms of physical and digital engagement, and then they come back, that can be a great time to reach out to them and say, hey, like you don't want to don't tell them you that they haven't been in the club lately. People definitely don't like that. And we have data on how that's actually a very negative thing on uh retention and everything we're talking about. But like if you say, hey, like, want to check in, are you open to a fitness assessment? It's free. We could talk to you about how we could help you achieve your goals. That can be really powerful. If we see someone starting to engage with certain content, maybe around strength training or group classes in their consumer behavior data, that can be great trigger. So I think different than retention, where it's all about being predictive and proactive. I think with PT, it's about being precise at the optimal point in time. And then I think what we found, and Taylor can better speak to this, but on the PT side, people are very used to getting sales calls in general, whether it's personal training or otherwise. You're trying, you're calling me to sell me something or get me to pay for something. And if you call and say, hey, I'm doing a general check-in, want to see how things are going. Are you open to a coaching consultation or a free like something like that? People tend to respond really well. And they're like, oh, like this, they don't know you're using all this data and technology, but it is the right time in my journey where I might be more open to PT. And you're not shoving it down my throat, you're trying to engage with me, which will create future opportunities to drive revenue. So, and then we're just the data and technology or Intel inside, it comes down to the people, like Taylor was saying, whether that's the GM or the trainer, to actually engage with them and see if they can help them reach those goals.

Yeah. It's fascinating. I mean, it just made me think too. Like, I'm probably traditionally not a good prospect for personal training. Like I kind of know what I'm doing most of the time in the gym, I think. I don't know, but maybe I don't. But like right now, I'm probably very good. If someone called me for my gym today, because I just signed up for my first gravel bike race ever, I have no idea what I'm doing. And if someone called me up today and was like, hey, uh, we'd love to have a consultation with you. Do you have any new fitness goals? I'd be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go. I'll meet I'll see you there this afternoon. I would totally do it, right? But I I traditionally you would never identify me for any particular reason as a good prospect. So I mean, yeah. I mean, anecdotally, do you have any other examples of of what that could look like, Spencer?

Yes, I can pick on myself. So I we lived in the city, I had a gym membership. I have a two-year-old and a one-year-old at home, and I have a home gym, but I wasn't being as consistent. And this, this uh, it's like a PT training studio. I got like a cold call. I don't know how they got my info. They're not using V, so this wasn't a creepy V thing on myself or anything like that. But for me, it was the optimal point in time where I was like, you know what? Like for me, just getting there one day a week, it'll help me get back into my home routine. They were going to do like a whole diagnostics and tell me how I've gained weight since I've had these kids, and I am not at the same level I used to be. And almost shame myself that works for me, not for everyone. But now I I go there every Monday morning at 6 a.m. And that's like that's how I start my week. And it gets me in like a good cadence to use my home gym throughout the rest of the week. It's all it's not all about me, obviously. So I think what we see with our clients more so is we hear awesome stories about the relationship you can develop with your members and how much they appreciate. Like Florian hit on it, it's very similar, I assume, on the connected fitness side of like engagement. I think it is what it really comes down to. And so we've heard awesome stories. It's probably we've been working with Anytime Fitness for six years across their 2000 plus locations, and they have a conference every two years. And there was a story of this woman who, like, I think she was type two diabetic on blood pressure medication, like she was having serious health issues, came in, we kept her engaged. She ended up doing personal training and she lost, I think, like over 70 pounds. She lost so much weight that she was taking this blood pressure medication. And once she lost the weight and her blood pressure got back to normal, she actually fainted once in the gym because her normal levels were where they were supposed to be. And I think that's like also, I know for the leadership at any time, like they don't highlight that to like make themselves look good. Like that's that's our why and that's their why. And seeing things like that, like if you can help.

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Get someone, nudge someone at the right time and give them support to reach their goals that potentially could be life-saving in a situation like that and life-changing, that's pretty cool.

Yeah, that is really cool. Awesome. Yeah.

And then hey Eric, can I hop in on the curses? Yeah. So yeah, I would say like I think it's everybody's dream and fitness to make impact. And so if when you're able to identify who these people are during the right time when you can actually make an impact, you go from being a nagging salesperson to like an impact maker, you know. And so we see even with even with retention calls, some of those turn into sales calls because you're you're really just checking in with them. And so, you know, like I mentioned, we're we're using V on the attrition side, you know, we're we're rolling out PT soon. But us being to just call in and check on, check in, check in on somebody when they kind of need it most, we get a lot of great feedback from members just saying, oh, hey, thanks so much for checking in on me. And maybe sometimes it's just, oh, it actually just went through a serious injury. That's why I haven't been in the gym. And then we could talk to them about you know steps to get back into the gym. We've even offered, we use we have an app, so we've offered giving them some at-home stuff to keep them engaged. And so I think, you know, in in real life, too, we experience this all the time. We maybe just don't notice uh with our friends uh or family members, they'll come to you at the right time and you're like, man, I really needed to hear from you today. And the reason why it's not random, it's just that they understand your behaviors, they're seeing things change with you. And you haven't necessarily gone out and told them, man, I'm going through something tough, but they can recognize it because they see all your patterns and things are changing and you're not doing your normal routine and maybe your normal tone and your normal things. So they're able to reach out to you at the right time, and then all of a sudden they're making an impact in your life. So, you know, with this, one of the things I like about it most and talk to our team about it is that's what really getting that data and information behind the scenes is, is it's the information they would want you to know about them in most cases, so that way you can go help them with it, you know, and you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to get that with every single member. And so uh without getting some type of probably AI information behind them. And so I think it'll really allow our teams to make impact. And um, and you know, for some people, you know, they're still canceling, there's nothing you're gonna do about it. But you know, but there's a lot of people that they were, you know, probably gonna cancel at some point soon and we were able to make a change. And then to speak on fencers, you know, talk about personal training. Yeah, I think people do when you get a personal training call, you are thinking you're getting sold. And so, you know, there are other CTAs that we use or call of actions, like a general check-in. The one thing we're seeing a big spike of, which is just an industry trend, is talking to people about recovery. It's a huge one, you know, just talking to people about how their recovery is going. It's not very intimidating about, you know, like it would be about talking about personal training. It's just, hey, how are your workouts going? How are you recovering? What things are you doing to improve your recovery? And it opens up a whole conversation about what they're even doing outside the gym and and and inside the gym if you're operating those recovery services. So it's been a a pretty good tool for us uh pretension into sales too.

Yeah, fantastic. Florin, do you have anything to add on that point? I mean, you guys are are helping drive the member experience better than anyone else, yeah.

Yeah, I think it's a super interesting topic, especially because right now there's just so little visibility uh from a data perspective on what's happening on a regular training floor. And and I was just about to say on this, how can AI and technology in general help uh to create these high quality touch points? This is really, I mean, exactly what we are working on. And it just like to imagine how some of our customers are using this, we do have a product we call the Fitness Hub, which essentially is an assessment station. So, what customers do is when new leads are coming into the gym, they take these five minutes that it takes to put the lead in front of the fitness hub, get them scanned, do a strength test on our equipment, and that already gives them so many data points that they can, for example, immediately see if there are some muscle imbalances. And I mean, most untrained people do have muscular imbalances because they're sitting all day. So it's quite easy to create such a hook that you then can immediately identify and say, hey, this is something we should target with an intervention. And workout is the solution here. And I mean, then obviously there are options on the one side to make a PT upsell and really have a high touch and also potentially high price experience. On the other side, of course, our ambition is also to create something that is more on the digital side, guides the user with a product that I would say could potentially come close to a PT guided experience, just as a fraction of the cost, because it's fully digitally controlled, powered by AI and by the algorithms that are developing there. So I think this is super interesting both ways.

Yeah, awesome. And for those listening to you, I see that some questions are starting to come in. We will leave time for questions at the end. So Marty will get to it. And if you guys have questions, you can start dropping them in there and we'll get to them the best we can. So, kind of a around the circle question for everybody here. If an operator is feeling overwhelmed by all the AI options available, which I think a lot of them are, what process would you recommend for determining where to start and how to expand intelligently with AI applications specifically? So, Lauren, since you you got some steam on that last answer, let's let's keep going with you.

Yeah, I I think it's important to not do AI for the sake of doing AI. I think it's really important to approach the problem from a perspective of what's the kind of underlying problem that you want to solve and what is the data that might be available right now. I think there is uh always a a bias I personally have as an engineer. To start with something small in a fully experimental fashion and build it from there. The other question for sure is do you have the competence for the respective thing in-house or should you partner with somebody who brings that in? And I think that's a question I think everybody needs to answer for themselves. Yeah, I think this is how I would I would try to get to get started with the topic, uh, really approaching that from a from a problem perspective and then seeing what tools are available. And uh again, uh I think the best AI is is the AI that's really pretty much invisible and and uh a tool that really just does the job well. And then oftentimes these tools work with AI under the hood nowadays, of course.

Yeah, and more so in the future. Taylor, when you're you're an operator, right? Like what how do you you get inundated, I'm sure, with with people trying to sell you AI solutions and uh how do you pick which ones and move forward to with you know limited time and capacity?

Yeah, definitely at some point you just have to start denying some of the meetings because your whole week will be uh AI meetings being sold. So, but yeah, I think uh it's very similar to what Florien said. I think it is very different depending on you know your gym, but I think you have to start where your business is hurting and you don't have somebody in house that has expertise or you don't want to add the extra, the extra pay, you know, you know, payroll by adding a big team. I would, I mean, what I would just say, for example, we did even when we uh uh partnered with with some other companies is we always pilot. We do out of 38 applications, we we never throw it in 38. We always start with one or two and and start small and see how it's going to learn and and really understand, is this something we're gonna be able to handle? Are there is there feedback that we need to give uh to to this uh you know particular company? Can can they can it work with with our system? So I'd always say, you know, start for sure small, something you for sure can handle. And uh, you know, like I said, agreeing with uh with Florin on you know, probably starting with one area that you feel like would make the biggest impact. So like we're happy with our marketing results. And so we we didn't really go down the route uh with AI fact because we're feeling really good about our team. We feel like they're doing a great job. And when we compared our numbers to others, we we were pretty happy with the results. And you know, we went in on attrition as our first thing because we just feel like our team is focused on sales and service, and and that's what we primarily want them focused on in front of members. And so can we get uh you know something to help us in the area where we just don't want to add anybody else to the to that space? So I think I think it's first internally looking down and writing, writing down like what what areas are are we kind of hurting or or or we feel like we could see more growth in that we're not and just start small. I'd also say too with like AI, some stuff I don't, you know, I'm not the the biggest expert on everything AI. Um some stuff gets pitched to me and it says it's AI, I'm not sure. Um, you know, so I think very particular about your partners, you know, maybe who else are they working with? Can you test it on somebody? Uh can you see it live on somebody actually using it? And on and I've been hearing a lot about, you know, just AI learning from is it learning from general data or is it learning from your specific data? And so I think, you know, maybe uh Spencer can touch more on that, but I think it's not not everything, I think it's AI. You know, some of this is just is just uh there's plugging in answers, and I and so I think it'd be very particular on who you're who you're working with.

Yeah. Yeah, AI is kind of like the web 3.0 of four years ago, right? Like everybody's throwing it on the back of their business name and you know, xyz.ai. Uh Spencer, what what's your take on that question?

Yeah, I have I have a perspective. I think uh so V's been around for eight years. I've been here for six and a half years. And when we used to talk about enterprise AI, AI has been around for a while. I think ChatGPT made it sort of dinner table conversation and consumerized it, and now everyone talks about it. We actually have started removing uh AI from our branding and our talk track completely because there's 99% BS in our opinion. So we call it productized data science or productized uh precision targeting capabilities. I think to Florian's point, like I think what we do in V is like you don't want to be a solution looking for a problem. So as Taylor mentioned, if there's a problem or something you're looking to optimize, if you can do it with uh a whiteboard or if you need AI and technology, those are that depends on the problem. And one thing we do at V, everyone has full autonomy in their departments to make decisions. But we have these small committees where they have to put together a business case. And at the end of the day, they make the decision. But the small group like votes, would you, is there an ROI? Would you make this investment? And so that's how we handle it internally. Looking at what's out there, whether it's AI or not AI, if it can solve a problem for you, that's great. If there's an ROI, then whether they call it AI or not, probably not the biggest thing. I think what we're gonna see though, and and we've bought into this at V, is if you start like references are great, but kind of when you put the money on the table. And it and I think what's awesome about AI is we can move away from some of the SaaS or perceived type of models that we've seen out there to value-based models and performance-driven models. Like if they're not willing to demonstrate attributable value and you cannot attribute that value, whether it's lowering cost for acquisition, increasing retention or LTV, lowering your operational costs, and they're not willing to align with that, I'd be pretty skeptical. And I'm not an engineer, but uh I would take the sort of same prove it incrementally and scale up as quickly as possible once you find signs of oil.

Awesome. Awesome. So, you guys, we're gonna go round by I got one question left for each of you here. Uh, it's gonna be about an actual takeaway for for the people who are listening uh and watching today. So, Taylor, I'm gonna start with you. So, based on your implementation experience, what's one specific AI application you'd recommend every fitness operator start with tomorrow?

I mean, I I would probably just back what what what we did. I feel like, you know, I would probably invest in something that is impacting keeping your members. You know, if I said something different, I'd be going against what we did. And so we are pretty strong about that. And I feel really I feel really good about retention and it being a huge focus that'll probably get overlooked in a lot of uh a lot of businesses. So for me, I'd say I'd be looking for some type of AI that's gonna help you retain members. And and that could also be something like in an e-gym where it's because you're creating a better product or service, there's something that's gonna keep your members in the door, I think is the biggest thing that I'd be looking for from an AI application right now. And that could be a better product, service could be predictive. AI could be something that is gonna help, you know, retain members. Because I think most of the gym business, at least that I've been in for the last 17 years, is you're always focused on driving people in, driving people in. And there's probably been some uh overlooking on actually keeping your members. So some type of solution like that that fits your fits your business.

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Florian, what's one underutilized data point most fitness businesses already have that they can immediately that they could drive immediate revenue growth if properly leveraged?

Yeah, let let me maybe answer this this uh in two ways. Uh I think the question already shows the the pity of the situation, because I think most gyms don't yet have these most valuable data points in their hands. Because I do believe that some of them are actually happening on the training floor and are absolutely not observable today. But I still want to answer the question because I think what what most gyms do have is some basic level of behavioral data in terms of uh attendance, for example. I think that's the most basic and really well-documented data point. And I think we heard from Spencer already that this is something that can really have very interesting applications that you can leverage also quite quickly, I would say, to gain some first results here, uh be it a churn prediction or be it other predictive things you can do with that. So I think that would be my starting point if you really want to start small and start with something you have today, but then be aware of the blind spot, which is your core product and most of the things that happen there.

Yeah, yeah, wise words for sure. Okay, Spencer. So somewhat redundant question, but it it's the best question. Uh if an operator can implement just one data-driven retention strategy next week, uh what would you recommend and why?

No, just kidding. So I think I'm obviously biased. So I think the most important thing, I think, right now, I'll roundabout answer your question. But if I we work with lots of different operators across healthcare, wellness, etc. AI in different ways is coming. You can think it's three months, three years out. I'm of the belief that it's not going to replace core functions. It's the people who are best at what they do and can augment what they do with AI are going to be really successful and sought after. And those that if you can be replaced with automation, then you're probably not leveling up. So I think if you're an operator, aside from just retention, creating education and tools for your team to learn, because this is evolving very quickly. That's one place I would start. And then I think the other thing is like Florian and Taylor have hit on this, like at the we could predict attrition, but if you can't prevent it, it doesn't matter. Right. So starting to really understand your members, your life cycle, if you can do that through conversations and data, qualitative and quantitative information, I would start there and I think start hypothesizing why might that be. So if we can predict, because someone's looking at another club, they're searching other clubs or doing something in their daily life or their pattern of usage and engagement goes down, but there's nothing you can do about it, that doesn't solve the problem. So I think understanding and being really honest with yourself around your core product and service, what's good? What do you want to optimize? Okay. And then what type of leading indicators do you think you could use, whether it's data or other things as part of that member experience? That's what I would do. And I would kind of start within. I was joking about V earlier, but I really start internally and sit down and be like, what is it really like to be a member at my club? And you're sure you've got different segments and profiles, understanding that full journey from prospect to lead to member to PT, et cetera. And then saying, okay, like let's think about how we could use data to be more predictive and personalized, whether it's AI or other. And then you can start, like most operators, I would recommend there's a lot of tools and partners out there that are can start with a run versus a crawl. And it's probably better to partner. But we work with like our biggest client in healthcare is United Healthcare. And they've got 2,000 data scientists and they're focused on different things. And so it's finding the right culture fit, trust, and and being able to drive action. So start from within, really understand your customer, and then try to use data and test and iterate to create behavior change around retention.

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So you guys, we have about six more minutes for questions. And people are still on the line here. If you have questions, pop them out. I think uh you're not probably not going to get access to these people very often. So let's see, Spencer, uh, the first question's for you from Marty. Uh Spencer, you mentioned specific follow-up based on fitness goals. Can you speak to how AI, V or how you slash V differentiate those? Uh, this might be a question for Flo and Taylor as well.

Well, I don't do any of it. Lucky for you guys, it's data scientists with a higher IQ that look at this type of stuff. But so at V, we don't recommend the content. We don't like what the communication is or the call to action of the template. We help predict and do A-B testing on steroids. So where you may have an A-B test uh on like talking about one goal versus the other, and A may win 93% of the time and B may only win seven, instead of throwing out the 7%, you match that 7% to the right people and you can have A, B, C, D, EFG. And so that's kind of the way we approach this. There's some nerdy language that I won't go into today on that type of machine learning. But I think in short, to answer the question, A, you need to capture goals. So a lot of our clients don't capture goals. And so if they don't, you can't be personalized. You just need to say, hey, how's it going with your goals? If you do capture, if it's weight loss, if it's to uh fit into my suitable wedding, whatever it is, if you can circle back to that, it's hugely powerful because it shows you actually care about them and them reaching their goal. So I would say capture the data and then find the right point in time to engage with them and circle back to how you can help.

Awesome. Florian, any additional thoughts on that question?

Yeah, if I may add to that, I think that this is really a core part of I think what the e-Gym solution can do is generate some of that signals. So just to give an example here, what our system does is on the one side, of course, it captures the training goal. But I think what's even more valuable, what our system does when people are using it on an autopilot mode, it will send them every few weeks to do a strength test, a strength assessment on one of the pieces of our equipment. And with this data, you can really nicely see how, for example, somebody who wants to build muscle is progressing. And what you will see usually is that things will plateau at some point. And I think that's one of these super interesting signals where you might want to start a conversation and see, hey, what do you need to change in order to continue the trajectory and not fall behind? And I think this is the interesting thing about this fitness data from the training floor that you can really specifically interact on things that are happening there and are relevant to the the core product that you're offering, which I think is the workout experience and some of the outcomes.

Yeah, awesome. Taylor, any additional thoughts there?

Yeah, I would just kind of echo Spencer in saying that we uh, you know, collecting the goal is huge. We all you know, we use uh inbody, you know, with all of our members. We have a lot of members, uh almost every member that comes in is is hopping on there. So, you know, when we're calling and and talking to some of these members that have been flagged, us trying to pull as much data as we have on them ahead of time to make the conversation personalized and be able to talk to them about you know what things are changing, you know, and and sometimes we're seeing that people are are you know testing and and they're coming in consistently and they're actually just not maybe seeing the results that they want. And that could actually be to turn two, even though they're working out all the time, coming in and not seeing results over and over again could cause you to start looking for a different solution. And so so we we do use some of that information to try to intervene and maybe get them on a program that would help you know, help them see better results. So I think looking at their entire profile and and having that data, like Lauren was saying, is huge because it it really shows that you I think Spencer mentioned that they really care about the the uh the member and not just, hey, how's it going? So I think the more information you have on your clients, what their original goals were, what's been happening with their workouts will all lead to better conversations and and setting up a plan for them.

Yeah. Yeah, the human factor. All right, last question, and then we'll be done. And this comes from Eric Degati. Eric, thanks for for showing up. And I think what we just talked about about you know, collecting information about each particular client and their goals, I think that's attributable to this question. But here it is. How can a sole proprietor, coach, or trainer without a team or large budget utilize some of the tools such as consumer behavior tracking to find and target leads in their niche more effectively? Any any thoughts on that? And feel free, whoever wants to jump in.

I'm happy to jump in. So we we do this at V. So, Eric, whether we're the right fitter, we could recommend someone else. But whether you're a multi-billion dollar uh corporation or you're an individual, we can help to leverage this data to be really precise and targeted with everything from paid media to find the point of intent where someone's searching for coaching or services or a health club, and then also see where that individual consumes media. So I may Google something, not click Eric on maybe your website, click on a competitor or scroll to Reddit or WebMD or where or Fit Insider. But then maybe they are on Instagram every day or Hulu. So uh if we can help or others can help, happy to do so.

Yeah, awesome. Florine Taylor, any thoughts on the individual proprietor?

I think Spencer nailed that one. I'll let him handle that section.

Yeah. Awesome, you guys. Well, I want to get everyone out of here on time, especially Florien, because it's late there in Munich. But uh, this was awesome. And thank you everyone for attending. Uh, there was there's great attendance here, and we will be getting uh a summary out and uh recording out to everybody who joined us. But such a well-balanced panel. You guys did great. You know, I've get to moderate a decent amount of panels, and uh the professionalism on this one was exceptional. So thank you. Uh, I really appreciate it. It makes my job so easy. So everybody, thank you for joining us. Uh, Florian, Spencer, Taylor, job well done, and uh we'll be in touch.

Thank you. Thanks, Eric. And sorry, Spencer. And sorry, all us together. See you guys.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Catbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the feature of fitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.