Marketing Fundamentals - Scott Rawcliffe

There's a lot of e-commerce stores, people that sell stuff online, that are successful, but it's because they're not trying to be Amazon because you're never gonna beat them at their own game. So if you're trying to beat a Gold Gym or 24-Hour Fitness or Orange Theory, their advantage is they're big and they have lots of money and they can spend it on branding, but your advantage is you're you. You can be a person, you can be a personality, you can do that sort of stuff, and they can.

Finally, man, I got Scott Rockliffe on the show. Uh, him and I have been talking for quite some time, and uh so happy to finally get him on. Conversations are great. I enjoy this guy thoroughly. And he knows his way around digital marketing and marketing in general for uh people within the fitness and health industry. He really does. He's been doing it for a long time. Um he's spoken on stage uh on the topic God knows how many times. Uh and he's just good at it, you know? And he's really his expertise really lies, I believe, within Facebook and Instagram marketing, uh, social media overall. But it's funny to talk to him about the fundamentals of marketing, which is this this whole episode, because we get so swept up in tactics, right? Especially when it comes to social media, what offer is working now, what audience is is booming, right? Is it Instagram? Is it Facebook? Is it LinkedIn? Is it Pinterest? Is it all of that? We just get as consumed. And if we bring it down to the fundamentals, realize that those are just that. They're not strategies, they're tactics. And you have to have a solid strategy, you have to have um all the fundamentals in place to do so. And there's a special offer here at uh at the end of this um episode with Scott. So take it up for sure, enjoy it. And there's a lot to learn here. And if you have any questions, just hit up me or Scott about the topic because we love to chat about it. So uh this episode is brought to you by Lead Gym Insiders. So if you go to LeadGymInsiders.com, you will find an application to join a free Slack community for facility owners worldwide. And we're talking about uh CrossFit affiliates, we're talking about franchise owners, we're talking about boutique gyms, we're talking about health clubs, all kinds. And one of the things I love about being part of this group is that the variety of it, right? So it's not that isolated silo of information that you get with many of these groups, right? Um it's a big sharing of information, and we talk about everything from operations to marketing to retention to staff development to all that, and it's free, right? I'm in there all the time. So if you want to come chat with me, please do uh join the group. You can go to leadgyminsiders.com and uh join now. We're gonna have a ton of industry discounts just for being a member. So think about that. Digital my digital marketing agencies, franchises, uh, you name it, equipment, all that, you're gonna get a discount just for being a member of a free Slack community. So go check it out at leadgyminsiders.com. And without further ado, here's episode one number, episode number 129 with my guy, Scott Rawcliffe. Enjoy the show. Right, and we're live. I got him. I finally got him on the show. Scott Rockliffe. Yes. Yes. Welcome, man. Welcome.

Thank you. So my my whole tactic of looking like I'm way busier than what I actually am and travel all over the globe, it works. That strategy.

Oh, absolutely. I was like, God, when I just now that I got you, I'm my account, this is this is worth a lot, right? Like to get this time. I couldn't imagine what he charges per hour. Uh here I got him, I got him relatively free. So uh Scott, man, I'm I'm really excited. I give people a background, of course. I'll do an intro before this, but um you know, you've been in the fitness industry for a long time. Uh you and I swim in some of the same circles. Um, and you have always, you know, since I even got to to know you, you've always been a name uh within the industry that was kind of synonymous, synonymous, tough word, with uh marketing. You know, Facebook, Instagram, social media marketing, all that stuff. And you know, if there's one thing that fitness professionals love to talk about, is social media.

Yep.

So um let's do this, man. Before we get into um, you know, some of the thoughts I have, just give everyone your story. Give us a little bio and background on who you are.

Yeah. So um if you don't like marketing or you think you'll never figure it out, there's there's there's hope because uh that was definitely not what I I mean. I didn't go to school for that. It's definitely something if you would have asked me 10 years ago if I thought I'd get a marketing, I would have laughed at you and told you like you have you don't even know me at all. So I'll kind of pre-train with that because uh not in a million years I think I would be doing this. Um so I went to school for exercise science. Um then you know was like, hey, I like this training thing. I'm gonna uh go train athletes. Um did that. I was kind of the first people I trained, had an Olympic gold medalist totally by chance because she played hockey, so obviously we won gold. Um, you know, being from Canada, uh just got to throw that in. That's right, you're Canadian. Yes. And then um then just went and started, you know, realized that you know training athletes is is not the most economical thing, and it's way harder to build a business on that. Started training, you know, everyday people, did that for a number of years, um, and then was like, I feel like I need to do more. Like I feel like I've all and I've always been a teacher, so I was like, I think I want to speak, but like I don't know how you do that, and kind of went and just put myself out there just through my I I didn't know any better, so I just applied to like the biggest conferences there are and got in the first year and then went, holy cow, like so I guess the pre-frame this is I lived in Australia, so it's a long flight. And um what people don't know about speaking is you don't really you don't make any money. Um you don't to even cover your costs, so especially when you live that far away. So started speaking on exercise, and uh I was like, Well, I live so far away, I should probably figure out this Facebook marketing thing because it feels like everyone else knows what they're doing, and I don't, and I can't afford to just keep going back and forth. And so started, you know, dive deep into that, you know, got a coach and took some courses and stuff like that. And then with the speaking, I just started meeting other speakers and you know, and that's kind of my thing. Like, I just have always been a networker. Um and I used to think it was a bad word, but you know, so I met a lot of people through the speaking, and they're like, Hey, can you help me with this? Um, I'm like, sure. They're like, you should do this for people. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, I'm a I'm an exercise geek. Like, no, no, no. Um, and when I say exercise geek, like I went as far as I used to do assessments that took three hours and I would take a pinwheel that went down people's legs that related to dermatomes that related to the different sections of their spine, see if there are you know there's any possibility of them hurting their back. So when I say I was like a fitness geek, like I was a fitness geek. So I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, right. So that went on for about two years, and then um finally I was talking to a friend of mine who is one of the, in my opinion, one of the smartest people when it comes to like injury prevention, corrective exercise, that sort of thing. And he put out something and I kind of saw his numbers and then knew what someone else that does correctly sort of stuff and puts out products to trainers. You know, I kind of know what his business did a little bit. Um, and I was like, what? And I remember hanging up the phone and going like part of my language, I'm like, that's fucked. Like this guy who would be like a professed, like a PhD professor type person, and the other person would be like, like equivalent-wise, he would be like in kindergarten. Yeah. And like this guy in kindergarten is making so much more money and getting in front of and teaching so many other trainers. And I was like, This is wrong. And I was like, you know what? I'm like, quit being a baby Scott, like do this because there's a need, like good people need help to figure out their marketing. So I was like, all right, I'm all in, and that's when I decided I'm gonna do this marketing thing like full time because you you have to do that, you can't just kind of dabble it. I know some people kind of do it as a part-time thing, and there's no way I could do what I wanted to do. So um, yeah, just kind of went full in, still have my personal training business and still did, you know, maybe about 10, 12 hours a week, uh, just training clients and groups and stuff because I still love that, and it still kind of helped me just stay connected to like their needs and kind of how they think and stuff like that. And yeah, so that's how I got into marketing, like totally by accident. When people ask me, I'm like, by accident. That's how I that's how I did it. Totally.

Yeah.

Well, it's it's interesting, you know. My my experience too within the um within the fitness industry, which is you know, longer than I thought it would be. Um you know, the the relationship with the between marketing and fitness and health professionals is is I think unique. Like there was always this bow, especially because I came, you know, from the world of CrossFit, and the whole thing was like, well, if you're a great coach, right, people will find you. And I can tell you now, that's not uh yeah, sure, it is. I mean, if you if you have a great service, right, you do a great job, yes, it will generate referrals, it will have a good retention, but um, you know, you you have to have marketing. And I saw so many great coaches and so many people enter in the field with so much passion, right? Then just not knowing the first thing about marketing. And uh, you know, I'm I'm curious to think, like, you know, when you work, because I know you work with a lot of people and we'll get into exactly what it is that you do. Um, but you know, how much of it do you like it when you're I guess you when you do marketing, you also end up coaching people in their business, right? I mean, extent because you have to help them find out their pain points or their niches, all of these things. It's all tied in, it can't be pulled apart. Uh, and that's also part of their program design, it's also part of how they they do client experiences and flows, you know, marketing is just part of it. But when you come across people who who believe that, right, or maybe they don't even reach out to you, but what do you have to say to the fitness industry as far as how important is marketing?

So it I there's kind of two things. So I I my brain works in analogies, I just that's how it just works. Um I love it. So kind of an analogy that that I like to use is like if you think about like who's like the the leading expert on any topic, like what do they typically do for a living? They're a professor, right? How many people are like how well off are they financially? Or you know, how much like vacation, like all that sort of stuff, like not so much, and people don't know much about them, but they don't charge like they don't charge much. You can usually like ask them for advice for free. Yeah, but it's because but like but someone like Stuart McGill is a little bit different because he's put stuff out there, he's marketed what he has, but like kind of the world's ex world's smartest person on a topic typically doesn't get paid very well because they don't market it. So same thing, like even though you might be the best person in your city, if you don't let people know and find out about you, then you're gonna be stuck to just those people that actually, you know, have such a passion for that, so that they will go and find you. So it's like that analogy of like a PhD like professor. Most people don't know who they are, but because they don't kind of put themselves out there, it's kind of the same idea. And then kind of the other thing I think about is most it's kind of like it's a good and a bad thing. It's like a cup half empty or half full, like the insta-famous people, right? Like it either like just just eats you up and like burns you're to your soul to think like that people listen to them, but then it also shows you it's like there's an opportunity there too, because they're putting themselves out there, and even though they're doing booty shots or half naked shots, whatever, right? Like they're attracting your clientele. So imagine if you can attract them and you actually know what you're doing. Yeah, because we all know that a lot of those insta-famous people like don't have a clue or they're not really that good, but they're getting in front of your ideal client. So in my books, I'm like, there's an opportunity there. If someone can like start a business and know nothing about fitness or next to nothing, just because they look good, well it shows you that marketing works. Imagine what would happen if you get in front of the people and you actually know what you're talking about. So that's I mean, for me, it's yeah, it sucks, but there's also massive opportunity there too that social media provides because there's people that have, like I said, no background and they're building a business on fitness without even really knowing much.

Yeah. You know, it's it it I think there's also um a certain percentage of the population within the fitness and health industry where people feel that to do really to to be effective in marketing, you have to give up some of your integrity, right? Like, yeah, right. I mean, com comment on that a little bit.

Yeah, um, I think and it's funny because I had this conversation um with a lot of people that kind of and and again, like everything I say, I come back from like the super geeky, like I can pull off books like like clinical anatomy of the spine. Like I was like super geeky, super like like hardcore, and the more certs I get, like that was me. So like I I totally get it. Um, but I just look at it as if you can't get in front of that person, they're gonna go with somebody else, and you have to meet them where they're at. And if you don't meet them where they're at, you're never gonna get their attention. If you can't get their attention, then you can't kind of develop that that relationship with them so that they will trust you. So they're gonna continue to go down that that fad. They'll take to another fad diet, or they'll do another program that's not really you know for their body, or they're gonna chase the you know, a woman chasing a bikini body when really it's just, you know, if you can just treat her, teach her to love her body, it's a better thing. So if you can't kind of put stuff out there, it doesn't mean you have to sell out or or degrade what you're doing. Um, it just means you have to think about how, what, where are they what are they thinking right now? Where's their mindset right now? What's attracting them right now, and how can I get in front of them using that? And an example of that is a friend of mine who was he kind of a little bit insta-famous, but he actually knew what he was doing. Uh, we wrote for a lot of the magazines and stuff, and he would get so pissed off that like he just post a picture with my shirt off, and he'd get way more likes than something that actually was meaningful. And so we had the conversation. I'm like, well, cool, like there's an opportunity there. I'm like, what if you posted a shirt of like a topless picture, and then you told a story in your copy, like about being a dad and how you can solve this body being a dad, and you use that to get their attention. And guess what? It worked, right? Like it's it grabbed people's attention, but then it started to like build up people that were like, Okay, cool, like that's what I want to look like, and then you start to talk about it. Like, hey, I used to struggle with this, I used to do this, and they're like, Oh shit, you did too. So it's yeah, it's meeting them kind of where they're at, and then because if not, they're gonna go somewhere else. Like, if you're talking about, you know, that they have to um I know you want a flat stomach, but you need to you know work out how to activate your TVA first. Yeah, like um do the the flat stomach solution program because I don't know what TVA is, yeah. So it's just kind of like it's not removing your integrity, it's like how can you use that to grab their attention? Like you can do a video. Like, um I mean if you have if you're humorous, like I think I'm funny. Um some people do, some people might not. Yeah, you can do a video where you're like how to lose, you know, how to lose 10 pounds in in in 10 minutes. And people are like, what? Right? Like, I you can't do that. I'm like, cool. I'm like, hey, what's up? My name is Scott Rockcliffe. You know, I help these people do this, and I'm gonna I want to show you, teach you the only way you can lose 10 pounds in 10 minutes. If you want to lose 10 pounds in 10 minutes, you want to grab a knife, you're gonna grab that roll on your side, and you're gonna cut it off. That's the only way you're gonna like, but if you want to lose weight, right? Like, so you can use your humor, you can use that stuff, and you can talk about stuff. It's like, you know, my one tip to a flat stomach. Like, because people like again, if you're like that purist trainer, it's like, no, there's not one tip. I'm gonna name one tip. It's like one tip to get a flat stomach, stop eating cheese. What do you mean stop eating cheese? Well, you know what? A lot of people have issues with with dairy and that can cause inflammation. That can actually bloat your stomach. So try this for the next you know, 14 days, cut out all dairy in your diet, and just see. Measure yourself before, measure yourself in 14 days and see what happens. That's my one tip, right? So it's thinking about how you can use things that will grab people's attention or what they're what what the mass media is putting out there, but then you can add your own twist to it. So start to educate them and actually start to get them to pay attention, right? And and provide some value, like give them a little bit of results in advance of actually you know doing anything with you.

Yeah. So let's give it. So how do you lose 10 pounds in 10 minutes, Scott?

You just take a knife and you cut off the rolls and just start, you know, start shaving, weigh it, and just see once you get to 10 pounds. I mean, there's some there's a lot of like disadvantages to that approach. Um you probably won't move out. Um you probably will never take your shirt off again, but you lost those 10 pounds.

Yeah, and if anybody's listening and they try that uh as a subject line as kind of a clickbait, let us know uh how that goes, please. I I want to know. Um so what is it that you exactly that you do? Like how how are you like how do you deliver your marketing? Because you know, marketing is a broad topic, and you know, I'm uh part owner of a boutique that does mostly SEO and web dev and stuff like that, and that's marketing, right? But there's so many different facets of marketing. Tell us what it is that you do specifically.

So we we help we help how the fitness businesses get generate more leads and more get more clients. Um and we primarily use social media. Um, but when we kind of say that, you know, we also use stuff like email marketing and all that kind of background stuff. So we just help develop a plan of how can we use Instagram, Facebook primarily um to you know get more people to know who you are. And then once they know who you are, we can actually try to get them on your list and try to get their contact details so you can actually follow up with them and do it in a way that's a little bit different than what's out there, so you can at least stand out and do it a little bit more in a uh in a relational way, right? So you don't come off sounding like you're you're trying to pitch stuff or sell stuff hard all the time. It's like come across as a normal human being. Because the reality is like if you're a brick and mortar or local business, how many clients do you really need to have like a thriving business? Maybe a couple hundred, like and people live in. I mean, if you're living in a town that's got say 80,000, which is a pretty it's not a very big town at all, you just need 200 people to like love what you do and then come in. It's not a lot, right? So it's like I think sometimes we get hung up on some of the big online or digital marketing. And you know, I learned from that, and that was a mistake I made, is like looking at what they do and trying to be like, okay, I gotta you know, replicate this and you know, automate this and and and set up all this stuff when it's just like, why don't you just have a conversation? Like it would go a long way. And I tell this with with a lot of my my clients at local business. I'm like, when someone opts in, you know, for it's a seven-day pass or they're gonna do the a challenge or whatever, they're interested in it. I'm like, send them a text, but do a video, do a selfie video, grab your phone, do this one, hold it up, right? Point at your face and be like, hey, what's up, Eric? It's Scott. Um, I saw you're interested in my my 21-day, you know, lose 10 pounds in 10 minutes program. Um and you know, I try to give you a call, missed you there. But just want to tell you know, I'm super excited to have you come in and be a part of the family and you know, and see everything we have to offer. Um, just shoot me a text back, let me know when you're free. Um, if not, I'll I'll shoot you a text tomorrow. All right, bye. Now you're a person, right? So now and it you're who else does that? Nobody does that. But again, that's what you're kind of selling. You're selling you have an advantage, I think, because there's a quote, no idea who said it. It's like you can't outgoogle Google. Like, or sorry, no, sorry, like you can't out Amazon Amazon. Yeah. So there's a lot of e-commerce stores, people that sell stuff online, that are successful, but it's because they're not trying to be Amazon because you're never gonna beat them at their own game. So if you're trying to beat uh Gold's gym or 24 Hour Fitness or Orange Theory, like their advantage is they're big and they have lots of money and they can spend it on branding, but your advantage is you're you. You can be a person, you can be a personality, you can do that sort of stuff, and they can't. So it's like, how can you come across as a normal human being that someone wants to spend time with? Because that's what they're gonna do.

Yeah. Yeah, and relatability is is a big thing, you know. And I think uh, you know, I've talked about all the time, but people really respond well to authenticity, you know? Hey, I I know what you're going through, you know, client, because I've been there. Here's my story, right? And using stories for that as well. And it's interesting. I mean, it just seems that I guess my big question is besides, you know, those that that's a great tactic, right? Using a little video, right, personalizing it, letting people know that you're a real person. It's not an automation of some sort. I feel like that goes a long way nowadays. Um, what other ways uh have you seen over the last, and today's recording, by the way, for people listening is March 15th, um 2019. You know, what other ways have you seen of kind of of differentiating yourself? Because there's so much noise in the fitness and health industry. I mean, I don't know, I can't name another industry that's like this where there's so much noise. And maybe it's just because you know, all my friends on Facebook are fitness and health related. Uh, you know, my Instagram feed is filled with uh, you know, um quote unquote influencers. It looks more like a porn feed nowadays, to be honest with you. Like I'll be looking at my Instagram and like, like, oh geez, that was I hope nobody was looking over my shoulder, right, at the coffee shop, because you know, that's just my fitness friends. Um, but uh, you know, there's a lot of noise, is what I'm trying to say. And you know, there's a lot of things to compete with out there. But you know, if you had to give any advice, um, which you just gave awesome guys, just be yourself. What what else? What other kind of differentiators are you seeing?

Um, I I would I tell people, like, go go in on video, start to do video, start to get good at it. It's everything's moving there. Uh it's moving there pretty fast. If you're I mean, if you're like absolutely terrible at video and you never, there's no way you're ever gonna get good. Like you're like, uh hi. Um, then you're just you're gonna have to find a different way. But for most people, it's just it's just you haven't had had enough reps, right? Like the first the first time you tried to clean a kettlebell, right? Or snatch it, let's go snatch, make it the hardest one. Snatch a kettlebell, sure it's ugly. It's ugly, and you probably smashed your your wrist and back of your forearm, but you didn't say, like, oh, I'm gonna stop, right? Like, I'm terrible at it, or then you fell off your bike. Like, imagine if you're a kid got up, tried to walk, fell on the first time, which happened to everyone, you're like, ah, you're never gonna walk. You should just not do that. So just it takes repetition. And also it's it's it's odd to talk to your phone, like just to be like, hey, what's like that's weird not talking to another person. So you will get better the more you do it. But it's if you can jump on video and start to do a little bit more video and let who you are come across. And then what I'll get a lot of people to do is I'm like, narrow the focus because typically most fitness professionals know a lot about so much stuff that and again, we always talk about I've heard this saying so many times like if you hurt your knee, you wouldn't go see your GP, see a knee specialist. Right, if you blew up your ACF. So same thing. Like we talk about all this fitness stuff. So we look like a generalist. And we can bring kind of bring it in and figure out, okay, what are the topics I'm going to talk about? And I always say that just pick five. What are you like five, five topics that you want to have some authority over? You don't have to be the authority. You don't have to be like the world's greatest authority on fat loss, but you want people to think about you when they think about fat loss or what have you. And then make sure one of one or two of those five don't relate to fitness, they relate to who you are. So let's say you love bourbon, right? So talk about bourbon. I do. Talk about bourbon. Talk about that, right? Because now when someone goes to look for their trainer, right? Like when you go to look for a trainer, you move to because you move around a lot, you move to a new city, you're like, hey, I'm gonna join a gym, and you see this guy talking about bourbon as well. You're like, that's my guy. Like, yeah, yeah. I think we'll like work out and talk about bourbon, like how cool, right? Or maybe something about you is like family, like you you're you're big about family, so you want to share like family activities or or family fun days, and you don't have to like put your kids in it, but like talk about things you could do. So then if you're a family person, you're like, that's my guy, or that's my girl, right? So narrow down and just talk about that because now the same stuff keeps coming over and over again, and people get to kind of know you, and then just just do short videos. They don't have to be long. Um, if you struggle with video, just one single point. Because if you think about especially on social media, not YouTube, but like Instagram, Facebook, that sort of thing, people don't they they micro consume stuff, they watch little bits. So instead of giving like 17 points to you know for faster fat loss, just give them one tip because now you don't have to think about anything when you're when you're doing that too. So you're like, here's my one tip, as opposed to like all right, tip number one is this, and then tip number two is well make sure you still do number one, and um, because you're trying to like think about it, you have to remember all the stuff it's gonna probably be like 35 to maybe 90 seconds long, easy to do, people will watch it. So, you know, when when someone's creeping on you watching your you know, scrolling through your feed, you'll watch a one-minute video on Starbucks, right? But if it's like 17 minutes, people aren't gonna watch it. So, how how can you start to produce some content so people sort of look at you as an authority in certain kind of topics, or they think about you when they think about that that thing, right? Again, like the bourbon one. If you're in, if you're thinking about losing weight and you're sitting in the you know, you're sitting in the bar having bourbon, like you still might, if you've seen enough from that person, they might still come in your head when you're just out drinking. So it doesn't, we we I think we sometimes feel like we have to be like just in this box of just the fitness, nutrition, that sort of stuff. But let them know who you are because again, that's your competitive advantage, is you can be an individual or your facility, like what you guys deal with. It you can be individual. So start to do that. And it and you know, the more you can tell stories. I mean, stories have been around forever. That's how we've recorded a lot of our history, and um there's there's easy ways to do it. So here's a framework if I if I can share. Um simple framework to do that. It started with when. You start your your story with when, not hey, what's up? My name's Scott Rockliff. I help you know, overweight men get the body of their dreams by having you know, in in under 21 minutes a workout. And today I'm gonna talk about so the first what 15 seconds is about me. Who cares about me? Just me, no one else. Especially if I'm putting stuff out there to strangers, they're like, I don't care about you, dude. I care about me. What's in it for me? So if you start it with a when statement, you go into it, then you have some kind of transition into like what's your point? Um, and it could be like, so I believe that, or this is why. So, for example, like and I'll I use this all the time, and no one's ever done this. So if someone does this, like actually takes this video and does it, tag me, because I'm it it it crushes my soul to know no one even will even steal this one. So it's um, hey, what's up? My name is Scott Rockcliffe, and um, you know, I help people lose weight, and you know, it's gonna be hard. You go to the gym, it's gonna be hard. There's gonna be bad days, you know, but it's gonna be worth it at the end. When when you do that stuff, it's gonna be worth it. Like, and you're gonna go through some troubles and you're gonna go through it, but you know, trust me, it's gonna be worth it, right? So that's kind of a typical story kind of video we would talk about, right? Like go through struggle. But what if you went like this? I remember when I was like three years old, I'd train wheels on my bike, I'm trying to learn without my wheels. And I'm riding, and and you know, my mom took the wheels off, and I'm you know trying to ride down the street and I'd go maybe like you know, five feet and then I'd fall off, and then you know I'd get up again and go and I'm scrape my elbows, I'm bleeding on my knees, I'm crying. I don't want to do it. My mom's like, just keep doing it, like come on, you can do it, and trying to like egg me on, and I'm like, I don't want to, and I'm crying and I'm bruised and it hurts and it sucks, and I just don't want to do it. But then I remember when I did it and she let me go, and I was riding, and I went way further than I ever have, and I thought, oh my god, I'm doing it, I'm doing it. And that like that feeling inside me of like that accomplishment, and I was like, I was so excited, right? And that's the same thing with your workout. Like, you're gonna come in, you're gonna start, it's gonna suck, you're gonna be sore. There's gonna be times when you want to quit. There's gonna be times maybe when you want to cry. But when you get that feeling, just like you did when you rode that bike, it's so worth it. It is so worth it. My name's Scott Rockliffe and I help overweight men lose weight so they can feel better about themselves. Yeah, you can see how it's way different, right? And then with something like that, everyone can relate to it almost. If you've ridden a bike, you fell down, you wanted to quit it, it sucked. And now you're like, hey, it's the same thing with your workout. You're like, wow. Okay. So it's just it's completely different of like how people are gonna listen and and and and kind of and and start to engage with you. And you're like, and what the relatability that you said earlier, like they're like, he's just like me. He fell off his bike too. He's not just robo muscle man who eats you know tuna and chicken and rice. He failed. So that's my I'm like, do it, like, just go create some small videos, tell stories when so you heard me say when I was when I was three years old. I you know, dah-da-da. And I'm like, it's just like that was my transition, it's just like when you when you start a workout program.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I found myself cheering for uh three-year-old Scott there, too. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh Scott, get back on your bike, man.

And it's funny because when when I if I say this, if I kind of share this in a in a room full of people, um, it's interesting to see the lean forward. People lean as you start to talk, and they're like, that's a no point you know, okay, this story works because people you can say it's worked, people are into it, they want to know more, right? And again, we talked about how do you use stuff that maybe is is in people's mind right now, but transition to you know something else, you know. Same thing, right? How to you know how to how to lose 20 21 pounds in 21 days. I remember when I was younger and I was trying to lose weight, and I would try every program, 21 days, you know, da-da-da-da-da. Right? You could talk about that, but it wasn't until I realized, you know what, consistency that again, you can use so many things, you can use something that happens to you today to tell a story to teach something. But it's always like, how can you teach it? Because people that are gonna lean in, right, and become more relatable, and you're talking about stuff, you can, yeah. So that's that's uh that's one of my biggest kind of things. If you want more people to find out about you and resonate with you and and and know you and get to a point where now it's like when they see you and they've never met you, they're like they think they know you, right? You're maybe a little bit creeped out because you're like, do I you're trying to figure out like, do I have I met this person before? Like they seem to know everything about me, and I can't like picture their face. But that's that's what that's a power video.

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's you know, we the art of storytelling that's come up several times on this podcast too. And it's not just marketing, but it it's it's just the most amazing communication tool you can you can have. I mean, whether it be you know marketing, advertising, um, working with a patient one on one or working with a client one-on-one, or being at a dinner table, or you know, speaking at a conference, like whatever it is, if you can tell a good story, if you have two or three signature stories too, especially like your signature stories, right? Like those ones that you know you can go to at any time. Someone asks you right now, hey, can you get up and speak in front of this crowd? Right? Do you have a story or two that you can tell right away? Uh, that's something that you should I really urge people to think about. And then, you know, right now people are like, well, I don't have any story. I'm really boring. I'm just a normal person. No, you do. Like you have stories, you've overcome struggle. Maybe you just need someone to kind of, you know, bounce them off of um, you know, stories and see how you make them even more impactful than than they already are. And uh I love telling stories, man. I mean, it's um it's such a fun art, you know, to do it. And I think you're right. Once you get the repetitions down, you know when to pause, right? When to look into the camera, when to look off a little bit to one side, you know, uh there, there's a it's a beautiful thing. And um yeah, it's so useful in marketing. And I too many times, you know, you we talk about the booty shots and Instagram and you know, uh how unrelatable we can be as fitness professionals. Like, brother, like if you yeah, you have an amazing APAC and you know, sure people look at the photos, right, and engage, you know, get more followers. But how many people actually think that you're someone that they can talk to about their deepest, darkest problems? You know, probably not.

Yep. And and here's when I realized like how like how impactful stories are. Like, so when I start talking about fitness stuff at the fitness conferences to other trainers, I would always be like, what in my head it was always like, what's the one thing I want them, like, what's the one message I want them to like remember? And then what's the one story? So because when you're at a f you're at any conference, like you forget 90% of stuff you saw. Like it was great when you're in it, but you forget so much of the stuff. So I was like, what do I want them to take away? And and so I there's always one story that I would tell. Um, it wasn't always the same story, it just depended on kind of you know what the topic was. And it's funny, like I would hear people, they're like, they would remember my story, like, oh, I remember that. I remember your story about Coach Blair um you told like a couple years ago. I'm like, oh, what session were you in? They're like, um, yeah, I don't uh I don't remember actually. I'm oh god I feel embarrassed. I don't remember. I'm like, yeah, but you remember that story, right? They're like, Yeah, I'm like, cool. So you took across the message that I wanted to that, you know, to be a more impactful coach. And it's funny, like in the summer, um, this is like the first, it was I I met a woman, she was at a mastermind meeting that I was going to teach that video stuff to. And um, she'd let she'd see me the first time I spoke at Ideal World, which was a number of years ago. Um, and she was like, Hey, I remember seeing you at Ideal World, you know, and uh she told me the year, and I was like, Oh yeah, and she's like, I remember that story. I couldn't even remember the story. I was like, what story was that? And she told me, I'm like, oh yeah, like I totally forgot about this, but that's the only like that's what she remembered. She just remembered that story. She's like, I remembered it ever since. So it's like it's it it's so impactful. Like it's can make such like it could, it could be just that one, that could be your one marketing message that has to stick, and that's it. That now they're just like, I remember that person. Now they trust you, right? Like if someone takes the time to remember you, yeah, that's what it's about.

Yeah, yeah, it's awesome, man. So I I want to dive a little bit because uh we haven't really talked too much um you know on this show about it, but paid advertising nowadays, right? Once again, I just want to reconfirm that today's date is March 15th, 2019, because we all know that tomorrow uh Facebook could change an algorithm, right? And then everything we're talking about here uh maybe completely obsolete or at least a little wrong. Uh but you know, pay paid advertising, what what kind of role does that play? Like when should a fitness professional consider you know, paid advertising on Facebook and Instagram? Um, any cautionary um tales of how to get started with it? Because, you know, um pay-per-click is a very, very effective thing when used, right? You know, uh if that's is it even called pay-per-click anymore?

I think they just shorten it because we you know we everything they I think they just do PPC now, right?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, right, right. So people are wondering, probably like, what are they talking about? PPC? Well it's paid pay-per-click. Um But yeah, I I mean my my background in that is I remember when it first started coming out uh when I was well it wasn't the first it came out when it first came on my um in my world was probably around 2014 when I had my gym, 2013, 2014. I was like, whoa, like I keep hearing about this Facebook ad thing. And I tested it out, and I'm like, oh my god, like I just got I just got some major traffic. Um we used it for a while quite effectively, and then things changed, the cost went up, the effects efficacy went down. Um but give us a little, you know, from uh a 30,000 foot view, what's kind of the current state of paper, pay-per-click advertising for fitness pros?

So I'm gonna give you like I'm gonna give you something that hopefully that should stay true forever. Um like a a big overview of it because it doesn't really change, um just the platforms change. But um, and this is kind of a big this was like where I decided that marketing wasn't sleazy and gross and stuff because I thought, you know, as the fitness purist, sales and marketing are a terrible thing, you know. Yes, yes, like that wasn't that was in my head, right? Yeah, um, but this is when it was like, oh wow, I did like I can't believe I wish someone would have explained this earlier. So every single person that's listening to this, and every single person in the world pretty much I think has been in a relationship at some point in their life, whether it was boyfriend, girlfriend, married, whether they just had a best friend, right? So if we think about it as adults, like how does that happen? Because we look at fitness, we're selling a relationship. Most of us aren't just trying to sell someone on one thing one time. We're like not a plumber, where it's like we come flick fix your toilet, and even when it breaks again, you're probably gonna forget who I was, even if I did a phenomenal job. Um, so we want people to stick around for years, not just a couple of days. So to meet somebody, so I'll use I'll use, you know, you imagine if we we met at a conference, right? It would make sense for me just to like start up a conversation with you and us to talk and not be like, like you're like, oh hey, you know, I got this podcast. I'm like, oh, cool. Like, so my name's Scott, like I know a lot of stuff. I should like you should probably have me on your podcast. No, right? Because you're like, I don't even know you. Like, I don't like, why would I even do that? Right? So it's like if we had a conversation and we talked, you know, I you talked a little bit about what you did, I talked a little bit about what I did, right? You become aware of who I am, you decide, you know, do I like this person? You know, and then kind of that next step would be like, well, hey, Eric, like I gotta I gotta bounce like at dinner with with some friends, but um, like do you have a card or like you're give me your number or something so we can stay in contact? I'd love to have you know a further conversation. You're like, okay, he seems all right. Like I that was a good conversation, seemed like a good dude. Yeah, here you can have my number. Here you can have my email. You can you know contact me after that. And then we would you know talk back and forth, and then maybe it's like, hey, you're like, hey, you know what? I think it'd be great on my podcast. Or hey, you know what? Um, I got this new project that I'm doing. Would you want to be part of it? Right? Because now it's like it's further steps along that commitment thing. So there's an example there. Another example is like you walk up to a girl in a bar, like, hey, what's up? I'm Scott. What's your name? Samantha? Cool. Um, I don't know, you want to go back to my room now? Like it doesn't like stuff, right? And that's not how you would like get a relationship. And then there's always someone that that that's listening, it's always like, it works sometimes, dude. Yeah, it does. You're not gonna scale your business like that, right? So if you just treat marketing, like how you would treat building a relationship, whether it's a significant other or just meeting a new friend, and just think what are the steps that go like we go through. And sometimes you go through them fast, sometimes you go through them slow, but just think like, did I miss a couple of those steps? Like when you miss the whole like like let's get to know you kind of thing, go from like, hey, I'm Scott, do you want to go back to my room? Like if you miss too much, right? You want to have a little bit of a conversation and kind of grow. So if you think about what you do on social media through your paid marketing, do this, have the same approach. So I have like the three C's, it's like um call out. So you want to call out and see who turns around, right? So put your stuff out there, put those videos out there, put some testimonials out there, put some content out there that so people ideally turn around, they're like, ooh, what's this? Right? So you're gonna get their attention. Then from there, we want to capture them, right? So either we want to get their their phone number, want to get their email, you want to get them over to your site so we can pixel them. And if you don't know what like a pixel is, it's basically if you've ever been on Amazon and you looked at something you didn't buy it, and then it followed you around to you did buy it, that's that's a pixel, right? We can see who's been to your site. So once we get, you know, we capture them somehow, we can have a conversation with them knowing that they already know who we are. So the conversation can kind of change now. So now we don't have to be like how to lose 10 pounds in 10 seconds. We can start to talk a little bit more about the things that they actually need as opposed to just the things that they're most aware of. And then the last thing is convert. How are you gonna convert them into becoming a client? Like put an offer in front of them to actually come into your facility or to, you know, um, you know, buy one of your online programs or whatever it is. So it's just you know, call them out, right? Capture them, convert them. And that's gonna stay true for the end of time because relationships are pretty much the same, even though there's there's like you know, hookup apps and stuff like that. Now it's still kind of the same thing. Like there's no way you just you swipe right, and then you're like, hey, I'm Scott, hey, I'm I'm Barb. All right, um, meet at the bar in seven seconds. Like even that doesn't happen, right? So it's like it's if you think of it that way, I think you're always gonna understand how to do it. And then that kind of relates back to like like the biggest mistake is people just don't have a plan. They don't kind of think they don't they don't work through a plan. And and I think a lot of times what I see with people aren't you know kind of familiar or or rate with their marketing is they think from where they are now, where they want to go. It's like, hey, I want 20 clients, but I don't know how to get them. Yeah, it's like okay, well, let's reverse engineer it. Someone signs up, they give you money. What did you have to do before that? They're like, Well, I have to sit down with them and talk to them. I'm like, okay, cool. Now, what has to happen for you to talk to them and sit down and talk to them? Well, what have to contact them? Okay, cool. How would you contact them? Well, I'd probably phone them or email them. Okay, cool. So, so you need to get their their email and their phone number. Okay, so how could you get their email and phone number? Oh, well, I mean, I could do a talk in a in a local place or I could maybe give them like my recipe guide or whatever. It's like, okay, cool, so we gotta put that out there. So, how will people find that? Oh, it you just kind of work backwards. Like, well, I could put on my Facebook page, okay, and run an ad to it. Yeah, cool. All right, so but how do we get those people to like trust you enough to do it? What do you have to do there? Oh, well, I mean, if they saw a video testimonial, then they might. All right, cool, there you go. So, video testimonial. They then we target those people to your lead magnet, where we now get their details, and then you call them and email them, and then you sit down and talk to them, and then you sell them. So, sometimes if you just work backwards and reverse engineer, you're like, oh, okay, I I guess I do know how to do this, because if you have a client, you've done it once. So it's like, how do you kind of work that way? And and usually the start is where you get confused because you're like, Oh, I didn't know I should do a video testimony, or I didn't know how to get their contact details, but you know the other stuff, you know most of it, but I think that's where they get stuck, is because they don't know the first couple of steps, but they know the steps after that. So work backwards and then get stuck there and be like, okay, cool. I'm like, all right, I need to figure out a way to do this. I'm sure someone knows. And then you reach out and you find a coach or you you find a group or you find a program or you you ask an a a friend, you know, that that that's done it before, or you ask a friend that's never done it, and maybe they know someone because the thing with fitness professionals is we so want to help everybody. Um that chances are if you ask someone, they probably know somebody if they don't know the answer.

Yeah, yeah. Oh man, I mean it's it's so, you know, there's uh there's just things about marketing that never change, right? And that's that's I think that's exactly what you're getting at. And uh, you know, nowadays too, I mean, so it's if I'm if I'm a fitness professional, I'm like, okay, I think I have those pieces, right? I think I understand. I want to start, you know, toying with maybe some some sponsored ads or some instant IGTV or you know, whatever it may be. Um I think the first question I get asked a lot is well, how much budget should I have per month, right, to apply to this? So let's let's start with that one.

Okay, so here's what I tell people when they talk about budget. I'm like, the first thing you need to figure out is what's your cost per acquisition or your cost per client. What does it cost? That's the first thing you need to need to find out. So if you just approach the first month as it's going to be a test just to find out your number, then it makes how much you spend so much easier. Because if I could tell you straight up, be like, okay, it's gonna cost $57 to get someone to actually sign up and pay, how much are you willing to spend? You're like, well, they the first time they pay, it's $197. So shit, I don't know. Like, I want 30 new clients this month. I'm like, okay, well, let's do the math. I wish it worked that easy. It's like, okay, it's let's say $50 just so I can do the math. And you want 30 clients, you're like, okay, $1,500, we should get there. Um, it's never gonna work like that that easy, but it makes you or that kind of specific every time, but at least it gives you a number where you're like, okay, cool. Now I don't feel so like anxious to spend money. So trying to figure that out when you first start doing it is so important because then you have a rough idea of what it's gonna cost you. So when you make decisions, it's easier for you to spend a little bit more money or to know what's gonna kind of you know come. And I always tell people I'm like, if you can at least break even on the first month, like you're you're okay because you you should be getting people to stay. Like, I mean, usually like the lowest I ever hear people want to have a conversation when they want, you know, to get our help, usually about the lowest I ever hear is about nine months, is is kind of their um retention, right? A lot of times it's well, they're they're well over a year, well, you know, closer to to like 18 months to two years. So you have all that money to make there. So don't, you know, don't try to make your money on the front end because most people try to and then they get frustrated and they stop. So you'll you'll you'll be able to outlast those people. Um so that's kind of the that's the thing you like, you need to kind of figure that out. Um, and then it's just like looking at what's what's your budget, like what do you have to spend on marketing? And I know that's like very like it's like saying what's the best program for me to lose weight. Kind of you're like, well, it kind of depends on some things, but you know, we typically tell people like if you can start off with about $20 a day, you're in a pretty good position to kind of start out with and kind of go from there. Um, that's where I would typically tell someone to start because sometimes if you don't have quite enough, it it's hard to kind of really get things going. Um, I would say the minimum would be about ten dollars a day. Um, but again, that could that could turn out being a little bit frustrating in the fact that you know you don't have. Enough money to really start to kind of get get things going. But that's those are kind of some general guidelines, really.

Yeah.

But that number at the end, that's important. Like figure out what's your cost per person to sign up. Because it's great if you had one cent clicks. It costs one cent to click. I'm like, great, how many clients did you get? None. Who cares?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what you said there was really important too. And I think there has been, you know, especially as you know, when Facebook ads really hit the market within the fitness industry, of like leads just were flowing in, right? And people expected, like, hey, I can spend 200 bucks and I'll get you know a hundred leads, right? It was it was not uncommon, right? No, it's it's different now. Um, and I think we need to kind of go back to more traditional advertising of like, you know, even print days, or I used to sell radio advertising, right? Um, you know, and what we need to bring it back home. Like, okay, let's look at like we let's run through that actual exercise. And most people don't understand, you know, um, what an average client value is, right? Or their lifetime value. They never look at it that way. They're like, well, I I had to spend this much to get a new client. And, you know, I only made, you know, I only sold them a 10-pack of private training. And yeah, but what about the next three years, right? And looking at that value and how much you're willing to invest and get in that. I think that's a big um that's a big point to make for people is understanding like how much do you actually make on a client, right? On a new potential client if you're doing your job right, and then how much you're willing to spend to get there. It's pretty simple, but it's so overlooked. Totally.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I would say even 5%. Like, so people fill out a little form so I can get a little bit of a background if they're interested in having us help them out. I do kind of that's the right questions, see if it's a good fit, or see if I'm just like, hey, you know what? Start, do these three things right now, just go do those for the next month or so, and then get back to me. And then maybe that's a good time. But here's some things that you could go make money with right now and just do a little better job of and not have to worry about hiring anyone yet, and just see how that goes, right? And it's yeah, same thing with your clients, give them work, you know, give them a result. But I'm like, you'll get some wins here. This is all if you pay me, this is what we would do. So just go do that because you can do it right now and kind of move on. But I would say less than five percent of people when I because one of the questions is like, you know, what is it, what's what's the average cost you know to get a new client? And it's always like, I have no idea, I've never tracked. And a lot of people don't even know how long people stay for. So like I'd guess, you know, how what's your you know, how long is it? I don't even ask what like the value is, I just ask how long do people typically stay with you. And sometimes it's like, I don't know, maybe like maybe like a year. So I'm like, you have no idea. They're just throwing that out there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Metrics are important, people. I mean, it's uh I had um, you know, with uh my gym facility, I had this very, very detailed spreadsheet that told me um all kinds of information. I would go in and update it every week on how much cash flow came in every day, which clients I gained, which clients I lost. Um, and you know, it was it was just an incredible amount of information. And then over a five-year span, I was able to go back and look you know, month to month, what were my trends, right? Um, how many people were losing specific months, how many people were gaining, what were the fluctuations, why, what programs was I was running. And it seems so tedious when you start doing it, but you're so like three years from now, you'll be so happy you did it. Uh, you know, just tracking as much information as you can. And uh so nowadays, you know, tell me, okay, I'm just gonna throw an example out there. Um, you know, uh I am uh a trainer who focuses on the 55 and over, right? Um and I want to start, you know, throwing out I I have some of the numbers you're talking about, I have a good idea of how much I want to spend. Where am I gonna place my my advertising dollars and why?

Facebook, because that's where they are. Yeah. Um it's funny, the the the trend is is like for Instagram, like the age is is bumping up. Um I did talk at the end of last year uh and I was looking at some of the numbers. Um, and I was like, oh my gosh, like it's actually because I'm like, I'm an outlier because I'm 41 and I'm on Instagram, but it's my job, right? But yeah, that kind of like in people in their 40s, like the percentage, I forget the percentage, but it was like it was a lot higher than I thought, a lot higher. And I thought it was higher than probably what most people would say. So it's trending, you know, people are getting on Instagram, uh, the older demographic, but not that like kind of boomer um target. Um, the biggest thing with them is that get them on your list, find something that's like a that's a the that will get people on your list and actually start to communicate with them because I don't know if you notice, but the older we get, the the the better our BS detector is. Um so they're definitely gonna take a little bit longer to convert into a client because they've tried a lot of things and they've heard a lot of things over the years. Yeah. Um and a good friend, uh I don't know if you know Dan Ritchie, so he's got a functional aging institute. So they actually help, that's you know, that's their thing. They taught TP teach people how to train boomers and then also how to you know market and build a business around that. Uh and I asked him that exact question, I said, like, if you only do one thing, like from a marketing perspective, like what would like what's the most important thing? He was like email marketing, hands down. Yeah. Hands down. It would be first, second, third. So how can you get them on your list, right? But knowing that their BS detector is a lot bigger. Um, so kind of there's two ways I would I would do that is I'd either you know give them some kind of a report and and make it a good report, right? Um, it might be on balance training or um that sort of thing, like you know, uh injury prevention. Um, but make sure it's like it's good information because again, their BS detector is way more than a 20-year-old that just wants like a flat stomach or like an awesome booty, right? They'll buy whatever like that. Yeah. Um so get them on your list and then just communicate with them on a consistent basis, you know, two, three times a week, just send them like good information, send them to like resources or studies or whatever, um, and things that they believe in because they're a little bit more savvy from that perspective. Or if you wanted like a little another way I think we're capturing more people is is also you know, just sitting down and writing a really in-depth blog post or hire someone to you know to write it. Again, we talked about people that are really good at what they do but don't charge a lot, like go find someone that's like a professor or like go find someone that's going through school that might want to write it for you. Write a real in-depth you know, um, article on the benefits of exercise for you know for people over 55 and spend money to send them there. And you can even put down like a couple links in there to actually people to opt in to get your report as well, but then you're building that trust up. The um there's no barrier to entry, right? Like they're the trust, they don't have to like this is gonna be one of those guys that like calls me all the time and then like bugs me, like I don't know. Just send them there, they can read it, they can choose to opt in if they want, but they might, you know, they might not. But now you've kind of taken down that wall of access to start to get to know you a little bit more. So I would just I'm trying to how can I get as many people on my list as possible and do that and then just communicate on a consistent basis? I mean, either by directly sending them kind of a lead magnet with you know, maybe you have some videos as well, or sending them straight to like a blog post, a real in-depth blog post, right? Not like a you know, three tips to better balance as a baby boomer. Don't call them seniors, they don't like that either. Older adult. Older adult is the word. Um I was I had a long conversation with Dan about that. And he was like, older adult is is kind of the we we talk about because they can, they're like, I they accept that, but they even baby boomers sometimes they don't, like especially the on the lower end or senior. Like we all think we all think we're 10 years younger. We all think we're 10 years younger. I do. Like someone offered me a program and say, This is the program for 41-year-old men, and I was like, Yeah, but I'm not the typical one, like I'll do that for 41-year-old. It's like I'm different, right? So it's doesn't matter how old we get, we still are like, yeah, no, not me though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, 41-year-old man, I'll send that to my brother.

Yeah, yeah, I gathered, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought up email marketing too, because that's another aspect that um not nearly enough. I mean, here's if if any of you out there and you decide, hey, I want to work with Eric on business mentoring, I'm gonna tell you right now you're gonna start your email list and you're gonna start hitting it consistently. Like that's one of the first things I'm gonna get you doing because that takes time. You know, it's how you build that trust, right? Um, and you have to be top of mind because most people, I think, well, I know, I just know this to be true, is that they'll run Facebook campaigns and they'll be like, well, I only got one sale. Okay, great, right? But what are you doing with all those other leads? Like, just because people click on something right away doesn't mean that this is the time for them to buy. You have to catch them at that right moment, that emotional trigger, right? I mean, if I'm, you know, if I sign up for maybe like, you know, six uh, you know, foul ass tips for men over 42 at the age of 42 who want to ski better and uh, you know, whatever, I'm like, oh, that's my that's my content, right? That's the one I want to click on. I click on it. But maybe I don't sign up right away. Now, uh, you know, three months later, if I constantly see you in my email inbox and reaching out to me and letting me know that you're still there, and all of a sudden, you know, uh, you know, I that morning I put on a pair of pants and they don't fit anymore, I'm like, holy shit, who's that okay, who can help me? That's right. Scott. Scott's the guy, right? Because I was just reading his article the other day or his email about it. Now I'll reach out, now you have a new client. But it took three months, maybe longer, right? And that's uh that's a huge like if there's one piece of advice, people, if you're not email me or doing something that's nurturing over time, you're you're missing a gold mine.

And to bring it back, like we talked about marketing relationships, to bring back the relationship thing. If you start a new relationship, like in like it probably makes even more sense if you're thinking like boyfriend, girlfriend sort of thing. If you start, you get into like a new relationship, you meet someone, you start going back and forth, like, and again, it's usually when we market, when someone opts in, or or we usually communicate a lot at the start. But if you you know we're trying to like get this girl to date you or whatever, and you communicate a lot at the start, and then all of a sudden, like you sent a text like once every couple of weeks, maybe once a month, like you they lose interest. You'd lose interest, right? If someone's like you're you're you know someone and they don't communicate, same thing. If you if you email once a month, it's the same thing, like you're not gonna build up a relationship, they're gonna forget who you are. So it's again, like you can bring everything back to like how does a normal relationship work, right? And if you're emailing like once a month, it's the same thing. How well do you think you'll go getting you know finding your soulmate if you only you know text them once a month or call them once a month? It's not gonna happen, right? And and this is a saying that I use all the time um with with paid marketing, like treat every person on your list like you paid for them because you did, whether it was time or money, right? So if they get on there, they're not ready to buy, you got to communicate with them because a lot of times we try to make them buy in our timeline, not in their timeline. And there's there's people that are either like a fast buyer, like a kind of a medium buyer or a slow buyer. Fast buyers, typically an entrepreneur, right? We're like, hey, I need something, I'm gonna, I'm ready, I'm gonna buy right now, right? And and and I know I need this, and if I mess up, whatever, right? But like I'm ready to buy. And we treat most people like that. And then the medium one is kind of somebody that's like, I just need to like, I've been burned a couple times, I don't know. I need to like maybe see a couple of reviews, see what other people say, look around what other options are and just kind of weigh it all up. And you know, give me like four, four, eight weeks, and I'll probably make up my mind. I just want to do my due diligence. But again, if you're not communicating with them past a couple of weeks, it's you're gonna kind of lose that person. The slow lane person, they're the person that's just like they're like, they need to make sure that every you know uh I is dotted and every T is crossed, they need to make sure there is no way it's gonna be a bad decision, right? And then they'll and everyone's a little bit different, right? So if you think about it, if you communicate with them over a long time, like you treat them, you know, kind of eat that there's someone in each of those, because someone's in each of those categories. So if you realize that every person that comes in is gonna fall in one of those and you treat them that way, then guess what? You do more clients.

Yeah.

And I'm I'm one of those, I'm I'm the slow one, right? Like I take forever to make a purchasing decision. Uh, you know, last year when I was looking for a new pair of skis, my wife uh not so jokingly joked that I probably spent more money demoing skis than that when I actually the ones I eventually bought. And I was like, yeah, you're right, that didn't make sense. But I wanted to be sure, right? I didn't want to have any doubt in my mind that this was the right ski for me.

And uh interesting how, but you're like you are so you're a slow guy and you're an email guy. You're like all in on email because you understand that. Yes. So for people listening, like I'm I'm mostly a fast lane guy. Um, so I'll just be like, yeah, I'll get this. And if it's wrong, I'll I'll figure something, I'll get something different. So think about who like what you are in there, because you probably can't understand anyone else outside of that. Like for me, it was like, I don't understand why people won't buy straight away. Like, I get it, but it's like, why would you just not make that decision? So think about which one you are too, because you're probably biased to the other ones and you don't understand it. So get around people that actually are the other kind of buyers, because like as soon as you said that, I was like, that makes so much sense that you're so on email because you're like it taught it's how you like to buy, right? So yeah, take take note of that, whoever's listening to this, just to be like, what kind of buyer are you? And be like, realize you're not gonna understand the other buyer types, but you got it.

Yeah, yeah. And it's fascinating too because when I'm thinking about it, is like just through my own example of the skis, is but once I knew what I wanted, I was in. You didn't have to sell me anymore. It was like I'm walking in, I'm like, here's my card, ring me up. How soon can I have it? Right. But that sales cycle took three months, four months, right? Um, and that's a relatively short one. So yeah, I think that's so important.

And like, if you're looking for a car, everyone's probably bought a car, right? Like when you went and looked at a car and you didn't buy it that day, did that mean you're a tire kicker? No. You're trying to figure out what like you're gonna buy a car, and you're probably gonna buy a car in the next few weeks or a month or so. But just because you went in and looked at looked at that car and you didn't buy right then and there, doesn't mean you're a tire kicker. So every single person in here, like if I'm sure you've called someone a tire kicker that came into your business, but you've been a if that's your definition, if they don't buy straight away, then you've been a tire kicker too. When you went to buy your car, um, you know, and that's a probably a much bigger financial decision than you know, personal training or a house, right? Like it's just because you went, just because someone put up their hand and they didn't buy right now, it just doesn't mean they're a tire kicker, right? Doesn't mean you just have to understand people make decisions at different speeds based on what they have to look at.

Yeah. And they're in their circumstance too, right? You know, like when uh my wife and I bought a house and uh you know, it just happened to be like the market was high, but we came across this one listing that was a pocket listing, and all of a sudden we're like, okay, well, it didn't feed our criteria, but boom, I need I want it, right? So it's like there's different, there's different the the it's contextual too. You know, if I'm just if I feel like hey, this isn't something that I need right now. Now, if I was getting, you know, if I was going, let's say I was not married, I was getting married in three months or two months, I'd be like, okay, I need a trainer now, right? Yeah, like right now. So I'm just gonna do my quick diligence, I'm just gonna get started. Right. So it's so much contextual too.

Totally, yeah, totally. Just because you're typically one way, like there's certain stuff like I want to research too. And I'm like it's gonna say there's certain stuff that you would be like, all right, you're like, shh, like let's say whatever email provider, like CRM you use, it it got shut down. You'd be like, Oh shit, I need something else. I'm just gonna like I'm just gonna try to go to this one right now because I need this right now, and yeah, if it doesn't work, I can go somewhere else, right? So it's definitely you do switch, right? Depending on what it is.

Yeah. Yeah, that's fascinating, man. So much good stuff. I feel like I could ramble on with you for a long time. Um, but uh, I know I only have so much time. So but Scott, man, where where do people get a hold of you if people want to find out more? I know you put content out there all the time, and um, yeah, give us some insights.

Um just just connect with me, just look up Scott Rockliff. I'm I'm really active on Instagram, Facebook. Just just connect with me there. Um, because then that way you can look at what I do and what I don't do. Um and what I do that you know, a lot of stuff I do is I'm like, I wonder if this works, and more often than not, it doesn't work. Um, and I'm like, okay, cool, but I'd rather just do it online than my clients and figure out what works. Yeah, um, and um because we talked about like the financial stuff, so here's what I'm gonna do. Like, this is I'm gonna do like a little pitch here, um, but it's like not a typical pitch. So I thought about videos. I thought about doing videos and getting scared and whatever. So I'm gonna incentivize you to do a video. Like, not you, but if whoever's listening, I'm gonna incentivize you. Go do your little one-minute video, right? Just go in there and just you don't have to do the story framework, nothing. Just say who you are, what you do, what you learned from this podcast, either from myself or Eric, and then that's it. Post it, tag me in it, tag Eric in it. If you do that, I'll reach out. I'll send you like the we have like an Excel sheet that we use with all of our clients to figure out, and there's a couple ways we we do it, either if they want a certain amount of clients, or just to figure out like what your number is, that figure out like you know what your cost per client is gonna be or what it is. So spreadsheets, you didn't have to work it out, the formulas are in it, it's all good. I'll send that to you because you want you you need that, but you got to do something first that helps you, right? So do a quick video, selfie style, doesn't have to be great, doesn't have to be perfect. Just hey, I'm Scott, here's my business. I listened to the you know this podcast episode. Um, and this is what I learned from Eric, or this is what I learned from Scott, or this is what I learned from both of them. Post it on your page or your profile, tag us, and then I'll reach out and I'll send it to you. So, how's that for like a wonderful pitch?

That's great. I'll sweeten that deal. So if you do that, because I'm a huge fan of email marketing, I will send you uh my 30 top highest performing emails that I use in my gym days. I have them all drafted up there. It is a gold mine. That is almost a year's worth of email marketing. So there you go.

Just for doing 60 seconds, 60 second video. Yeah, incredible.

Yeah, awesome. Scott, thanks you, dude. This is always good. We'll uh I'm sure I'll be getting you back on. You know, when you're done with all of your travel and super being super, super busy, right? Yeah. Sounds like a plan. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, Scott Rockcliffe. Hey fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask. Actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I ask you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us. It's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel or Fitness Marketing Alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge, that's a big deal for us, and we're we put a lot of work into these episodes, uh trying to give you great actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at Fitness Marketing Alliance.com