Josh Leve - Fitness Business Association & Educating Virtually

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Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. Yeah, great to have you. I mean, I feel like it's overdue, actually. You know, I realize I've been doing this now for four, four years. Um, I've been on your email list forever, um, seeing your stuff come through. And uh, you know, I saw you guys uh we were just talking about your rebrands, we'll cover that as well. Um, but yeah, it's it seems like it's it's long overdue. So I'm really happy to get you. I mean, I know you have um literally a storied past in the fitness industry, right? Uh so maybe we can we can start there, give a little introduction to you and how you got to be uh where you are at the Fitness Business Association.

So, you know, first off, thank you again for having me. I really appreciate it. Um, you know, your podcast is one of the ones that uh I've subscribed to and I listen to all the time, and I I see the emails from yes.

Thank you.

Yeah, as far as getting into the fitness industry, my gosh, I'll keep it short. You know, I can go on. But I I as I say, I've kind of grown up in the fitness industry on the business side of things. I've been very fortunate. Both my grandfather and my father started fitness associations, so I'm the third generation of starting one. My grandfather started uh an association called the National Accord Clubs Association, the NCCA. And then my father came along and started a little company called Ursa. Um, and his claim to fame in the industry was he created and built the Ursa Trade Show, uh, to which you now know it is today for almost 30 years, working under John McCarthy. And uh yeah, when I kind of came along, I went to school for other things at the University of Kansas. And then when I got out of school, I quickly found myself in the health and fitness industry, but managing clubs, health clubs in the Chicago market, which is where I grew up downtown. And uh I did that for almost a decade. And the funny thing is, being in this industry, when I say I'm on the business side of things, I've actually never gotten a certification, I've never trained an individual in my life, I've been in the industry my whole life, just about. Um, and I could not train somebody if my life depended on it. So I've always been on the business side of things and you know, improving clubs, bottom lines, and flipping clubs that were not profitable to profitable, and then doing that on the studio side of things, and then ultimately creating almost a decade ago the association of fitness studios, which is when I was working in clubs, finding that there was a sheer need and an necessity to create an association similar to Ursa, but for a market segment that was rapidly exploding. And you're talking now, when I came up with the idea probably in 2008, um, so this is before a lot of the the chains that we now know were out there. I just kind of had this idea um just because what I was seeing in the Chicago market, and I had a mentor such as my father to be like, you know, I think you're right. I think they could use a company like Ursa. And so we've kind of put our heads together um and brought in some strategic partners, American County Council on Exercise, among others, uh, Sports and Fitness Insurance Corporation, Sprite Products, and we really just kind of used their initial support and grew the company for about seven and a half, eight years, and then realized, oh my gosh, with the boom of everything that was going on in fitness, and my goodness, is it a different industry now than it was when I first came up with this idea? Um we have found that a lot of what we were doing, a lot of the education we were providing was relevant for not just studios, but for gyms, but for entrepreneurial fitness professionals, for independent contractors, for fitness professionals alike. And so it allowed us the ability to cast a little bit of a wider net, but not lose our identity and rebrand the Association of Fitness Studios to the Fitness Business Association, really simplify our membership offerings and uh kind of run from there, create uh an entire event brand as well called Succeed, which we do a lot of uh we were in person, but of course the pandemic took us online. And uh we've built out a slew of kind of a suite of uh virtual event offerings that we do uh right now this year will be three times a year. Next time we're gonna bump it up to about probably four times a year where we do different events and conferences and things like that.

Nice, nice. Yeah, great submission. Um, I want to go back because you mentioned that uh, you know, I think you were talking to your dad about the specific market segment. Which market segment were you talking about? Maybe I missed it. Is it is it the boutique studios versus the the larger health clubs? Yeah, exactly.

So when we first started, you know, Ursa had the health clubs, the YMCAs, the JCCs, the big box guys, right? Um and we were looking at all these studios popping up and they were everywhere. And we're just thinking, my gosh, I know these guys, you know these guys. These these women, these men are people that were trainers before that probably found a good amount of success and had certain clients whispering in their ear they had a desire to do more, go out on their own, and they're creative and they're entrepreneurial, and they started off on their own. And sometimes that doesn't always translate into business success, right? Um, I think Rick Mail had said, and I love this quote, he says, you know, the minute they put your name on that lease, you just transitioned from John or Jane Smith the the fitness professional to John or Jane Smith the entrepreneur, and that comes with a significantly different set of skills that you're gonna need to be successful. And so I thought there was the missing piece, and that was something that needed a credible association in the industry that are solely focused on those studio owners. And so we did that and we did it really well for eight years, uh and we grew the company significantly, and then we just started getting more and more as the company kind of got larger, and we were working with all these different brands and certifying organizations and vendor products and things like that, that we had all these aspiring trainers, coaches, instructors that were coming to us being like, Oh, I'm not joining because I have to have a studio. And we're saying, No, we do so much more than just provide education to boutique fitness studio owners, you know? And so that was kind of the light bulb moment. Um, and then of course the pandemic hit, and through everything out the window and kind of allowed us the time to kind of look internally and rebrand and simplify our marketing message and our membership offerings, and really kind of like I said, cast a little bit of a wire net to allow these individuals a home for which they can have access really to uh the best education from the best educators kind of year-round. It's almost like the FBA is a virtual conference year-round with the community, with the education, with the continuing education, and then we have these big parties three, four times a year where it's all on you know two and a half, three days of education or so.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. That's awesome. I uh you know, I guess one of the things I want to ask you is that because I've never really gotten into the nitty-gritty of it, but how was it converting from in-person events to virtual? I mean, and a lot of people try to do it and with varying success. It sounds like you guys really like it, um, or you found something that that seems to really work for you. So maybe kind of walk us through that and you know, how has the demand been? And um, you know, I I know there's a lot of, I mean, I'm sure you get there's a lot of people out there who are dying to get out and meet in person again. And you know, Ursa was just, I think, a month ago from this recording. Um, but yeah, give us your experience.

So great question. Uh for us, the transition was slow, you know. And it was it's interesting because it's opened up this whole new world of opportunity for us as an organization. I should preface and say though, I am fully aware that virtual events will never replace in-person conferences and events. Never. That's not even what we try to do with our event. I've been doing a ton of research into virtual events, and my team is investing heavily in virtual because it is another segment that is a complement to these in-person events. I would never tell somebody to go just to our events, but don't go to a perform better, an idea, an URSA, a club industry, an athletic business. You know, the list goes on and on and on SCW because you can get so much from those. Everybody has different speakers, everybody gets different experiences, everybody learns something different from every single one that you go to. So for us personally, when we rebranded and our membership offering dropped, I mean, we're only $47 for six months. And so we allowed ourselves the ability to use the technology that we have and the relationship that we have in the industry through our vendors. We've got over 70, 80 now. Um, the presenters that presented at our in-person conference that now can do virtual because they don't have to worry about travel, they don't have to worry about anything. It's simple, you know, get on your camera and present. Um, it allowed us the ability to kind of create a party, if you will, in a virtual space and a ton of education with a ton of continuing education credits attached to it, but also have fun with it and allow people the ability to understand that there is another element to getting your education. You can go in person and we are craving in-person connection right now. I think there was just a study done by Harvard that I was reading this morning about how human connection is something that we all crave, which we know, and how that's going to impact the business side of fitness. And people are waiting to get back in person. And I I I'm waiting to get back in person. I just presented for the first time at Mind Body Bold um in the beginning of September, and it was fantastic to get back on stage. You know, I mean, you can't emulate that in virtual. For us, it worked just because we have a membership offering that lends itself very well to people coming in and upgrading to become part of what we do and part of our ecosystem. Uh, and we also have the partnerships that allows the ability to really market the event pretty far out there, and so we can hold a virtual conference and have four or five thousand people sign up uh and get a nice conversion rate on that side for them to become paying members of us and kind of rebuild themselves into our ecosystem and learn everything that we have to offer. So but it's not easy, you know. I mean, people ask me all the time, well, what software do you use? And how do you get people to show up and how do you get them to network and engage and when it's virtual and stuff? And there's no secret sauce. I mean, it's throwing a virtual event and doing it well. I'm not gonna say it's as hard as doing in-person, because if if I was a cat to go back and do an in-person event, we only did one to hold another one. I probably would have lost eight of my nine lives, you know, by doing an in-person event. I mean, hats off to the companies that do them because they are a beast when you try to do them and do them well. And so for us, there's just as much work on the back end. I mean, I think we probably write over a hundred different emails for every single event that we do because you have different tracks, you've got the experience, you've got to make sure people's answers or questions are answered, you gotta make sure they have an amazing experience, you gotta do the virtual, you gotta do the technology, you gotta make sure it works, you gotta make sure the speakers show up. You know, there's there's so many moving parts that go on uh within an in-person and a virtual event. But just for us, it provided an opportunity that um really kind of gave us kind of a nice little springboard as far as uh you know, seeing a lot of people coming into what we do and and and loving it as well.

Yeah, it's it's been interesting, man. Uh to your point, you know, I don't there are a lot of channels. I don't know which one's easier or harder to do, um, but they both have significant challenges when you're doing. I mean, I've been part of, you know, uh I don't know, a handful of virtual summits as either a panelist or a moderator. Always a technical challenge, right? Because you can't just hand someone like, hey, sit there, here's your microphone. You can't do that, right? You have to have them connected. There has to be like something's gonna go wrong almost all the time. And you know, then people get frustrated, and then it's like you also don't have that like feel in the room of like people being laughing, oh well, we had a technical glitch. You can't tell because you don't know if anybody's laughing, or people are just being like, this is stupid, I'm clicking off.

Yeah, and and you know, there's there's that component for the speakers. Be like, is there anybody in this room? And then there's that component for the exhibitors and your sponsors too. Like, are there people actually here? So making sure the back-end technology is there so that you have the lead list that you can send, that the speakers understand that they are speaking to people. So to have a live component to it is huge. Uh, we do ours what we call semi-live, uh, so that all the sessions are pre-recorded. That gives the speakers that breath to be like, all right, we don't with the massive amount of education we do, we do up to 60 different sessions in you know two and a half days, uh, sometimes more. So we pre-record everything, but then all of the speakers are on hand to answer questions in real time uh and live, you know, after their session, so you can still connect with them and so we don't lose that live component. And that's when you can kind of see how many people are in your room. But uh, and those are a lot of the things that we're working on behind the scenes as far as how do you show to somebody that there are thousands of people that are clicking around right now, you just can't physically see them, and that is a challenge with a virtual event, you know. It's I was reading uh uh an article about virtual events recently, and so the author says, you know, here's how you can emulate a virtual event and a networking component that you can like an in-person event. And he said, You can't. You just forget about it. You will never be able to do it. You can do little breakout rooms with roundtables and things like that, but you are never gonna be able to walk through a virtual expo hall like you can in in-person. You are never gonna be able to walk into a room with 500 people and sit and listen to a session and talk to the speaker afterwards like you could in person. I mean, you can through a computer. It's just different. And so we're really kind of using all this knowledge and tackling that as a way to really become the virtual event for fitness business in the industry several times a year and give people another option to complement the ability to, you know, if they don't want to travel right now, or if they do and they want something else for the continuum education credits, we're a great option. If they don't feel like traveling and spending the thousand, fifteen hundred bucks to for the flight and the ticket and the airfare and or the uh hotel and the food, we're a great option. You know, so it gives that convenience element to those that are saying, you know what, maybe this year I'm not gonna go in person, or maybe I am, but I need something else later in the year too that gives me the ability to continue my certification card and stuff like that. We're a great convenience option too.

Awesome. You know, uh I keep thinking about education in this market, right? Because things have changed so fast, and especially on the business side of things. I mean, you have people, I mean, I know I was looking at your website, and you know, some of the people that uh, you know, I've known for a long time Emma Berry, Pat Rigsby, Sean Greeley, Rick Mayo, Sean Rigley, Rick Rockliffe, like all these people I've known for a long time, right? Um but I think we're all in the same boat over the last two years. We're like, well, we don't know what's gonna happen. Like, what is the best business model now? Like, what are we doing? Right. And I'm just wondering, and like, you know, when you look at that side of things, you kind of got a little bit of to nobody's fault, just you got a little bit of the blind leading the blind, hoping that some things may like maybe we have 60 days to test a new uh you know hybrid model, and then we got to teach it to everybody else. So I'm curious, you know, from that the fast-paced change and the uncertainty of moving forward, how has the education on the business side of things changed?

Well, I think it's changed because of what we're seeing in you know a consumer, an average consumer's day. You know, I mean, you look at and see what's happening, the consumer has to change everything they've done, whether they're working remotely or they're going into the office or their you know, X meaning requirements and all these different things. But I Think because of what they've had to adopt to this kind of new normal that everybody calls it of way of living, they were still not back to quote unquote normal. But um, you know, I think from a fitness business perspective, the owner or the entrepreneur is looking at that and saying, All right, the average consumer has adjusted their life to being virtual more often. I have to adopt my business not to be completely virtual, but to complement what they're looking for from a workout perspective. Is that a hybrid model, as you said, you know, where sometimes they come into the studio or the gym or the health club, and other times they train with me remotely. Is it something where, you know, whether it's hybrid or not, or is it something where I stand to what I'm doing and people need to come in, or I have outdoor workouts are part of my you know repertoire on a more consistent basis? So I think a lot of what the fitness business owner or entrepreneur is doing is like you said, it is the blind leading blind right now. You're trying to find what works for you. I mean, the pandemic has shifted technology into the forefront of everyone's mind. I mean, it wasn't everybody knew, you know, there's gurus out there that do online training before and stuff like that, and everybody knew it was going to happen at some point. But man, oh man, we wish we had stock in Zoom, you know, in March of 2020, um, with everything that happened. And so because of that, and because of the technology thrust in front of us where we had to adopt to this, it just made it that much harder for the fitness business owner, entrepreneur to understand this is the model I have to adopt, but you have to do it in a way that adopts to what your clientele is ready for and wants. I mean, you got to listen to them first and foremost because it doesn't make sense to do all these things and make all these changes if it's not going to get you from point A to point B. You know, so I mean, I think it's listening to what your client wants, making sure you have a specific focus or specific niche, and really understanding what they want, what they need, and then kind of developing it from there. Um, but the nice thing is the businesses that we talk to, it's almost like the difference between a health club having to adopt a new model and you know a studio where the health club is like the Titanic, and the studio or the smaller medium is like a speed boat. And so if you need to make a shift, a speed boat, you can do a 180 in no time. Titanic, it's gonna take you a much longer time to get all the way around. So things take a lot slower. So the market that we really talk to a lot, the studios, the gyms, the entrepreneurial fitness professionals, they can make those changes. They can test something and be wrong a little bit, and they can work with their database and they can work with their clientele to understand what they want, and then build the programs and the education around that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's so interesting. And we've heard, I mean, at least on this podcast, I know this is just what I talk about. The the hybrid model, I've heard that word a thousand times, the new normal, we've heard that a thousand times, right? And uh, I think like everybody is just itching to find the way forward and then dig in, right? But we're like constantly like in this world, like we don't know how we're gonna shut down again. It's just it's a frustrating thing. I mean, the one, obviously, there's some undeniable winners during the pandemic, right? I mean, we can the elephant is you know, Peloton, right? Um, who have you seen as seen as some of the like who would you say are some of the big winners that are coming out of this change time of change?

Yeah, you know, it's a good question. So, yeah, the in-home fitness market is an interesting one, right? The the Pelotons have, especially during the height of the pandemic, you know, their stock was soaring, and you know, that's what people want. That's what they gravitated to because there really weren't any other options at the time. Fit and fitness businesses were closed. The only way you could get a workout is if you ran outside or you worked out on your own, or you got a Peloton, or you got a mirror, or you got a tunnel, or you got any of these in-house fitness markets. Since things have started reopening a little bit, you know, that market is not grown at the pace that it was before. And I got a bazillion thoughts on that, but we can maybe save those for later or not discuss them at all. But the clear winners during the pandemic absolutely were those. You know, the clear winners during the pandemic were those business owners, and you mentioned a lot of the names earlier in this that have their own brick and mortar locations, or they franchised um, or you know, they're working in the industry and have for a long time. It's the business owner that was set up for success to begin with. And I think what the pandemic has done is it really, and it pains me to say it, but it has really gone through the industry and knocked so many businesses out of business that just couldn't withstand that. And I think the clear winners were the ones that were good at business, great at business, and could withstand a punch to the gut that the pandemic gave us. And I think they were the ones that are also gonna reap the rewards of as things start to slowly get back to normal and people start returning, that are going to see a much faster return to normal because they were set up for that. They understood business, they understood their clientele, they understood they built the relationships, people weren't gonna leave. And I think when we were in the height of the pandemic, you saw a lot of that happen. You know, and it was so cool to talk to so many of our members and so many influencers in the industry and find out what they were doing to find success, you know, whether they were creating on-demand channels, whether they were creating virtual workouts, whether they were creating virtual parties, whatever it was to keep them connected. And another mentor of mine uh when I was running clubs, Gail Landers, who uh used to be the president of Ursa for a year and is the president and CEO of Fitness Formula Clubs in Chicago and works very closely with URSA and is actually working his butt off right now to pass the uh the GIMS Act in Congress with URSA as well. Uh he told me, he goes, and this is so true, in the fitness industry and really in business in general, if you create that long-lasting relationship with your clients, they will not leave that relationship. It doesn't matter if a competitor opens up across the street or down the block or whatever it is, if they built that relationship with you, if they've seen the results with you, if they trust you, they will not leave. And I think the fitness businesses that did it the best, those were the clear winners through the height of the pandemic because their clientele stayed with them, they trusted them, they knew they would be there for them. Because when you go to work out, it's a release, whether it's 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 50 minutes, 60 minutes, that is time, whether it's virtually or whether it's outside or whatever may be in person now, it gives you the ability to just escape. And that is so necessary for mental health right now, which is a huge buzzword. Um, and I think the businesses that understood that and were able to keep those connections strong were the clear winners throughout the entire thing.

Yeah, well said, man. Uh on the education on the education side, have you seen any um I guess not new talent, but people who have really kind of excelled during this time as like some of the key educators who are starting to get this whole new world right? Like people who who maybe two years ago were fairly unknown, but now um they've kind of excelled in the world of of education and business.

Yeah, you know, I I think I don't know how well known, you know, a guy that I follow, just because I I think his stuff is interesting, Jonathan Goodman, who does, you know, the online personal trainer. Uh he he's you know he's been talking about it for years. And you know, he his business has of course grown uh exponentially because of all this. I think there's those individuals, you know, the the individuals what's interesting to see is during a pandemic, who's out there and starting businesses? Who's out there and not shutting down but growing? And somebody like a Rick Mayo, you know, who is starting a franchise all you know over the place right now with his alloy brand. Uh, I mean, those are the people that are the clear winners that are coming out of this because they had the foresight to prepare their businesses in a way that no matter what was to happen, they could grow and they could expand and they could excel in a way where they knew fitness wasn't going. That's the great thing about our industry is that people need fitness, and fitness is never going. There's never gonna be a pill as much as we all, you know, the majority of the public likes to think. You know, the 80-20% rule where 80% of the population is is inactive and 20% is. Um, there's never gonna be a magic pill. But ultimately, fitness is always gonna be around. And now, more importantly, what I think the pandemic did was it put the fitness professional in the front line because there was such a focus on mental health during the pandemic because people were so isolated and you couldn't see family and friends. And it it really was difficult for a lot of people. And I think what what the media focused on as far as the mental health perspective, and what you need to do was you need to get out and exercise. And so I think the fitness industry has a massive opportunity to this is a weird way to say it, ride the coattails of the pandemic, but ultimately to be able to showcase to your clients and everybody if you haven't already, that what you do is a necessity, you know, it is a need. Uh and not to go back to what I said previously, but when I was talking about Gale and the Gyms Act, if those of you listening don't know, the GIMS Act, they're trying hard with Ursa and Liz, their new CEO, to pass the GIMS Act, which would allow fitness businesses that were the hardest hit by the pandemic to recoup a significant amount of money from uh from the government, something the fitness businesses, gyms, health clubs, studios have been left out of, where the restaurant industry uh got funding, got support. And so they're trying hard, and we're supporting it, you know, 110% for really to be able to drive a significant amount of revenue back in the fitness industry. So yeah, uh to go back to your question, Eric, the ones that I think that have been successful and really kind of piggybacked at are the ones that were set up that way. I mentioned a couple names, but there's there's a variety of companies, and we've seen companies we're talking about it before that have gone under major health club chains, you know, that that weren't ready for this. And it's it's been a hard hit. But um, you know, there are there are definitely those success stories out there that uh are exciting to see. And some the funny thing is too, you have these big success stories, then you have so many little success stories that we hear about all the time. And these studio owners and these gym owners that were thrust into going, oh my God, how am I going to pay for my rent? What do I do? And to taking their businesses online and staying connected and finding a way to either take their exercise classes outside and their workouts outside or go to a park or just get incredibly creative. I mean, there's some names, uh, Robert Lincoln and John Herringer, who just did amazing things with their communities that come to mind. And the list goes on and on and on and on and on. But um, it was inspiring to see so many of these businesses, and it's a roller coaster of emotions where it's like, oh my God, are we going to be in business next month? To, all right, we got this, just like every entrepreneur goes through, you know. Um, but then as we start to hopefully see the light at the end of the tunnel, uh, these are the guys or the women that uh are are really are really bouncing back, as I mentioned, the fastest because they were able to pivot um in ways that they never thought they had to before and and find that success.

Yeah. Yeah, man, it's it's been so interesting to see who's who's risen. I mean, ultimately, uh, you know, I think if anything, this teaches us the importance of a healthy balance sheet, uh, you know, and and what that looks like and why that's important. Um, you know, to have some and and unfortunately, you know, there's just a lot of businesses that got caught maybe in a you know a moment of high risk, um, kind of, you know, the uh you know, their pants down really, you know, in a bad situation. Maybe ran a great business for 10 years, but over-leverage in a certain point, and then you know, just got stuck at a bad time. Or but I think having, you know, like you look at like you mentioned, Rick Mayo's or Brandon Cullen and Matabolic and these companies that are now like booming, right? Um UFC Gym, right? They the same thing. They just you know had access to a ton of money during this time. And who wins in in downtimes like this? People with deep pockets. Oh, or access to capital. Exactly. Like that's that's a big part of it, too.

The element that I forgot too was on the vendor side of things. The you know, the companies that are just excelling so much. I mean, the the tech companies that have the platform to now take on more bandwidth because the hybrid model or the online training is now a staple in most businesses right now. So you have companies, partners of ours like Trainerize and companies like Podium, and companies like oh my gosh, I'm gonna mention forget a ton of names, but they're all on our website that have all these automation tools that allow you to run your businesses more effectively and easier. And I think those companies are the ones that saw extreme amounts of success. Um TrueCoach is another one that uh really we like to call it the 1% of the companies that just saw a massive boom as far as their sales went because all these people were jumping on to having everything they do online. And these were the companies, like you said, that had the deep pockets and had the ability to take on this business, and those were the ones that saw amazing success. And then there's companies like Mind Body and all the you know, the CRM companies that had to reduce their staff by a significant amount and then are slowly starting to come back because they were run off of you know automatic deductions every month, their EFT um electronic fund transfers every single month for the businesses when they were in business, but they were out of business, they didn't get the money. So, you know, they took a hit. So a lot of the tech companies, depending on where you were and where you fell, saw a lot of success, but also a lot of them got hurt too.

Yeah. Yeah, it's really so let's talk about tech a little bit, man. I mean, you know, it's one of my favorite topics. What uh is there any companies or pieces of technology that that you're really excited about right now?

There are so many companies that come knocking on our digital door, as I like to call it, with technology right now. And a lot of what we're seeing, you know, when we first started the company, a lot of our vendors were, as we like to call heavy metal companies, you know, the companies that have the that sell all the machines that you see in the clubs. And really it's shifted. And I think a lot of that has been because we're doing a lot of things virtual, but we still have a lot of different heavy metal companies as well, the life fitnesses and the matrix and things like that. But I think from a tech perspective, the word automation, especially in our market, is a big one. You know, what are the companies out there that can make my life easier because I'm wearing so many different hats that I can't focus on that? Is there an automation tool that I can use that I can plug things in and let it run? It's gonna take a little bit of lead work on the front end. Uh, but there are so many different companies from a text messaging perspective, from an online training perspective, from a running my business from a running reports, and a lot of that can be done through a uh a CRM type company, but there's so many different companies and the training component to that too, you know, and your on-demand library and this whole ecosystem of everything being in the cloud right now that allow you the ability to do what you do incredibly well. There's so much out there. I mean, I was talking to a company recently called Uplift that uh Uplift Labs that just had an amazing product through uh through their app that I was blown away. I mean, heart rate training that can be tracked without a wearable, you know, I mean, things like that, and the sensors that you could install and how you can train somebody with visual cues directly through an app. And so there's all that whole component that the industry right now, from a tech perspective, is is ripe for explosion. You know, I mean, you look at the amount of money that is being pumped into the fitness industry from the perspective of Google and Apple and Microsoft and all these companies that are are just coming into play. Yet our industry that we play in is sort of on the side of it, you know. It's it's an interesting industry in that perspective. But I think there's so much potential for technology to really help us. I mean, we're seeing it already in the in in the in-home market with the Pelotons and the Tals and the mirrors and things like that. Um, and that market is continuing to grow, which I believe is a complement to the actual face-to-face workouts. But um we can go into that topic later if we have time. But uh, you know, I think the tech perspective, it's it's it's exciting, it's interesting. But as I mentioned before, the automation stuff is the stuff that we hear about within the FBA of people wanting to know where do I start? You know, there's all I can do a search for online training software, and I'm just where do I even go? And so the companies that you said might have deep pockets uh that might have something that people have heard of that are out there in front of people, those are the companies that are doing well because they can be seen and be trusted, and of course they have a good product that helps as well. So I think those are the companies that are doing incredibly well. But for us, the automation side of things is something that we hear about a lot.

Yeah, interesting. On the automation side of things, Josh, is there any companies that you um would like to, you know, give a little shout out to? You think they're doing well, that you seem to have been doing a great job with your client base?

You know, gosh, there's there's so many. I mean, I don't want to single out anyone. I I I'll take the uh the political approach. But I recommend that if you go to our website and just click on our partners tab, which is is right now when you watch this, it's gonna be have gone through a complete redesign. But um, all the companies there uh are, I should say, pre-vetted. So we don't work with everyone. We work with the companies that have several phone conversations with us ahead of time that we do demos with their products, that we understand what it is that they offer. So anybody you see on our website from the trainerize and the podium, who is is really focused on leveraging online reviews and text message marketing to automate your business so you can talk directly when I'm with a human to somebody who inquires about your business. Um, there's a slew of companies on our website that I recommend. Um, and you can find them all there under our partner tab. But um, those are the ones that we firmly believe in. And of course, we're getting calls all the time about other ones that uh we need to make sure it's the right fit for our market, and um, and that's kind of how we go off and running once we find that that right fit.

Yeah, man. Um from a personal curiosity standpoint, what what drives your guys' business? I mean, you guys create a lot of content, right? Like what what is um what's been getting your business going over the last few years? I mean, I know there's a lot of people who you know have seen uh a definite downturn in the ROI from paid advertising. Um I think you guys obviously, you know, I get a newsletter from you guys. You guys have a do you guys have a podcast or what what how are you guys driving the business?

Most of our business is run through our partnerships that we have, um, and the sponsorships that we develop and our cross-marketing opportunities that we have. And then it's also through thousands of members that we have and the member experiences and the referrals that we generate as well. Uh, and then it's also through our virtual events and piggybacking a very minor upgrade for people to become members of the association and gain significant perks at every single event we do. If you keep your membership current. So you figure you pay 47 bucks for six months, you're gonna get at least two of our events, which means I mean, you gain a significant value there with everything else that we do throughout the course of the other 11 months of the year. So driving our business is absolutely our sponsorship, the partnerships that we have in the industry, the cross-promotional marketing opportunities that we do for our events, for our membership, and then the member experiences that we generate for our members during our succeed events and also within the association to drive referrals. So it's funny because our business is not very different than our members' businesses. You know, our business is simply membership acquisition and retention. I mean, that's ultimately what it is, and having people have an amazing experience at everything we do. The education we provide, the events that we hold. It's not rocket science. It's creating those wow factors so people go out and they tell their friends they want to come back.

Yeah, so give us some insights of like what do you get when you join the membership? What do you get? What are the perks of it? What can people expect?

It's very, very simple. We really, when we rebranded the FBA, we trimmed a lot of the fat. So we ultimately got rid of a lot of the things that people just weren't using. And so ultimately, what you get when you join the FBA is you get access to the best educators that share the best education. And so a lot of the names we've spoken about today, actually, every single name we've spoken about today, have all presented for us. We do ongoing education every single month. We are launching a show, not a podcast, but more of an FBA show that is going to highlight different educators in the industry. It's going to focus a lot on the education that we do, set you up for success throughout the course of the month. We have an entire community element that's thrown into it. We do market research for the industry. We have continuing education courses. We have over 70, I think, different vendors on and providing discounts to their products and services. And then the biggest one is your membership, as long as you keep $47 current every six months, it gets you access to every single one of our. Virtual events that we offer, which offer a ton of continuing education credits, gives you an amazing opportunity to network with over 40 different speakers, 50 different speakers, whatever we have, and provides an experience that we like to think in the virtual world is second to none. So it's an extreme amount of value for an extreme amount of education, but you get to kind of pick and choose and be guided through what you want the most.

Yeah, that's great, man. That is that is a ton of value for that price point. So well down on you guys. Um so looking into 2022, man, um, because today's recording day for people know it's November 2nd, 2021. Um, you know, what will things look like next year for you guys? How are things a little bit different? What can people be excited about?

Yeah, great question. So we are doubling down on virtual. We know that the the in-person events that need to go back in person are going back in person. And we know we don't necessarily need to. We are going to invest heavily in our technology when it comes to our virtual events and our you know FBA membership community element as well. So for us, we're gonna probably be hosting four different events next year. Uh, we are gonna be having two major annual uh or actually bi-annual virtual conferences and expos. Those are our big ones, which are gonna happen the first week in March, and then again at the end of August. And then we're gonna do two smaller events where we're gonna do one probably in June, which is gonna be community-based, where we're gonna have mentorship opportunities, roundtable discussions, the ability for our membership base and others to come and engage and talk and really find answers to their problems with people who are in the exact same shoes as they are. So look for that in June of 2022, which we're excited about launching. And then our November event is strictly from a vendor education perspective. So it's our innovation and solutions summit, which as we were talking about technology before, it puts those companies front and center. So they take center stage. So it's for you to come and participate and understand what technology is out there so that you don't have to do that Google search that I talked about before. You have pre-vented companies that are there that provide you that automation tool to uh be successful. So there's all the events on the FBA side of things. We're working extremely hard with building out our educator base and making sure that we have the best people to come on board uh at a price that we like to say is affordable for everyone, building out the level of engagement that our members can have with other members, creating that FBA show so people get a sneak peek behind kind of my life and what my team goes through and what our educators are doing, and just having fun surprises with that, and really to kind of just growing the membership from there and working with partners in the industry to make sure their products are seen within our community as well, and giving them that platform to kind of bridge the gap between buyer and seller.

Awesome, man. Awesome. So I I asked this question in the spirit of collaboration and uh you know people listening to the show. So what what is it, what are one of the the what's one of the biggest needs that you have right now as a business, as a community? Uh, where can people help?

Oh gosh, good question. I think the biggest need that we have, you know, I could look at that a couple different ways. I think the biggest need that we have is making as an association, because that is still our backbone. We are still an association. We do the market research, we do the surveys, we do all the education. But I think the need for us is to ensure that people understand that there's so much crap out there when it comes to the fitness industry, and we're still stuck in those bally days where it's high-pressure sales tactics, people think it's a perception of the industry, that you know, we still want to get the credibility out there. So from an association standpoint, we really try hard to work with the organizations that share that same belief. And, you know, I think our need is making sure that high-quality education gets out there and surpasses those people that you see on Instagram or on Facebook that are like, hey, you need more clients? Well, buy this, or you need more clients, schedule some time for a free consultation or whatever it may be. You know, I think we work with some organizations that are tried and true that know the business and understand what it takes to be successful. And it's not a get rich quick scheme, it's a lot of hard work. And, you know, any entrepreneur out there, I will tell you there's one word that you could put over their head that has probably happened at one point in time, it's depression, because it is a roller coaster, you know, and you bang your head against the wall and think, should I still be doing this? And I think the need is for us to educate the market that this is hard, this is not easy, and ultimately you might have the will and you might have the desire, and you might believe that you're going to be successful when you get out there, but ultimately things don't go your way, and you have to be prepared for that. So we talked about a healthy balance sheet and all that. So our need is to make sure that high quality education gets out front and center, and we start to kind of get rid of the stigma of the fitness industry, especially in a consumer's mind. And I think it's starting. I think a lot of the in-home fitness stuff and some of the sponsorships that they're getting, I think LeBron James just signed a deal. I saw him in some ads for I can't remember if it was Tonal or Mirror or one of those. Um, you know, I I think that's that's I think that that helps. But I think the need for us is always to get our name out there, you know, from a marketing perspective. But also when we get our name out there, it's for the right reasons and it's to push the industry forward in a variety of different ways and to help these fitness professionals, these studio owners, these gym owners, and assist them with what they need so that they can live their passion, they can find success doing what they love to do. Um, because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. And that's ultimately why we created the company is to provide an opportunity for these business owners, these entrepreneurial fitness professionals to have a place to go that's trusted and supported by the entire industry.

Well said. Well said, Josh. Well, hey man, I I know you gotta go because uh as we were talking beforehand, uh, this is the new uh work from home living. You gotta pick up your kiddo. So um don't don't interrupt that. But uh tell me where you're a good man. Uh where uh where do people find you? Where do you send them online if people want to get accepted?

Go to our website, it's fbafitness.com. Uh, and then our our our event website is fbasucceed.com.

Cool. Well, Josh, thank you so much for coming on, man. Really enjoyed the conversation and uh man, you know, getting any insights from someone like you who's literally generationally been in the industry for uh quite a long time, it's always really valuable. So yeah, that's uh that is a wrap, ladies and gentlemen. Josh Lebanon, I really appreciate it. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.