Jessica Klodnicki - KT & The Art of Rebranding

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. Hey friends, I couldn't be more proud and excited to announce that today's episode is powered by workout, the ultimate tool for modern fitness professionals just like you. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Hyperite, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases the products you've already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business with store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-ut.com. Just one-o. W-r-k-o-ut-go get it. All right, we are live. Jessica Claudnikki, welcome to the future of fitness.

Thanks for having me.

It's uh it's exciting to have you. I I love that you're in Park City. We're just talking about all the cool stuff you've done recently, Sea Otter, Italy, gravel biking, and like we're we're kind of very similar souls. Uh you you love to be outdoors. So it's a it's a pleasure to have you, and it's so exciting what what you've done so far with the KT brand. Um, we'll talk about all that today. But I would like to start out, of course, as I always do, with just a little bit of your background because it's extensive. I mean, you you know you definitely know what you're doing, and uh we can start there and and take it from there.

Awesome.

Some days I know what I'm doing. Um, yeah, so I'll go quickly. The first chapter of my career was more traditional consumer products, but the underlying theme is that I just loved sports and outdoors. So working for a more traditional consumer products company, but running marathons, started doing triathlons, was dabbling in golf, living in Atlanta, Georgia, and um was trying to figure out how to break into the sporting goods industry. I had actually interned for the U.S. Bob Sleddon's skeleton team at the end of college. And so I got this little taste of working in sports and um spent years trying to figure out how to get in. And eventually, second half of my career um got hired by Mizuno. And so I was running marketing for all their sports in North and South America. So that was golf, running, team sports, which included baseball, softball, volleyball, and I just loved it. And so once I got a taste of that, I could never go back and uh got recruited over to what was called East and Bell Sports. So it was a collection of mostly helmet-oriented brands. So we owned Rodell football helmets, Easton, hockey, lacrosse, baseball, but I worked on the action sports business, which was Bell, bike, and motorcycle helmets and a couple other small accessory brands, which was amazing. Moved to Santa Cruz, fell in love with mountain biking, gave up golf, gave up spandex, um, and really got into the dirt and um enjoyed a lot of mountain biking in Santa Cruz. We sold the business to Vista Outdoor, which was a big uh new public company that was uh building a platform of outdoor brands. They had me go run Camelback for a while, so moved up to Sonoma County where I got to continue mountain biking, but also drinking copious amounts of beautiful wine, and then um got recruited to Skull Candy in Park City, Utah. And uh we moved partially for Park City, Utah, and was CMO of Skull Candy, um, continued mountain biking, uh really got into skiing and dabbling, um, learned to skate ski, which is the hardest thing I've ever done. Um, I was on a curling team for three seasons and just love like trying new things. And so um, and then during that time, uh got recruited to did a lot of nonprofit board service, I should say, worked on in the bike industry for people for bikes, Canber Outdoors, which was a diversity, equity, and inclusion um organization dedicated to getting more diversity in the outdoor industry, Protect Our Winters, which is a climate advocacy organization that activates outdoor enthusiasts, and then um currently serve on IMBO, which is the International Mountain Bicycling Association. And our goal is to build more mountain bike trails across the country, across the world, um, to make mountain biking more accessible. Um, and then just recently, I'm going really fast, but most recently joined KT Tape as the CEO back in June. Um, and then um simultaneously invited to join my first for-profit boards, also in the outdoor space. So one is Gather Outdoors, which is a platform of six different outdoor brands, spanning tents, sleeping bags, overlanding water solutions, rooftop tents, super fun business, um, private equity backed, and then the Pros Closet, which is a venture-backed uh cycling re-commerce retailer, where the foundation of the business is we take in high-end used bicycles, inspect, refurbish, and resell them back to consumers so that they get great products for somewhat of a value. Uh, and uh so I'm just steeped in, I've tried to connect my personal passions with my profession, and somehow I've been able to string that together and live and work in some awesome places and and feed, feed my my desire for playing outside.

Yeah, I was gonna say there's like an underlying uh mission to everything you do. It's it's all outdoor related, and it seems like it uh it's very much about accessibility for more people to the outdoors. Would I be saying that accurately?

Yeah, and actually um the one I skipped over, which is one of my proudest things that I've done, though small, was when I was in Santa Cruz. I was learning to mountain bike and um just discovered it's a hard sport to enter when you're new. Like so many barriers to entry from where do you go, what do you wear, how do you ride? Um, and I think particularly hard for women to embrace. And so sort of fell into by accident um starting a women's mountain bike organization. Um, had met a few other girls that were in the same position as me. And we started this group ride for women in Santa Cruz called Girls Rock, and it blossomed quickly into this group that probably now has thousands of women that participate. Um, and the mission was to really onboard women into mountain biking, make it social and fun, uh, but welcoming, welcoming for all levels. And uh it's been running now for a couple of years and is now an official 501c. And my friends from Santa Cruz are still still running it. And we we replicated the idea at Bell, stole the idea and took it to 10 other cities across North America. Um and I'm just I'm I'm so proud to have had uh a part in getting more women on bicycles.

Yeah, yeah, well done. And I I want to get into something because I prior to recording, you made a point that I've been trying to articulate for a while, right? And we can kind of frame this around your experience at Sea Otter, which I didn't know what that event was until I talked to you today as well, either. So that sounds like a really interesting story to tell. But the the point is that I think we're all we all read headlines, or maybe we have conversations from a B2B side of things about the state of specific industries. We can just talk about fitness and health and wellness right now, because that's what we're in. Um, that's not looking good, right? Like, you know, companies are not doing well, and you know, you see you read a lot of headlines, and uh, but when you're like boots on the ground from the consumer's perspective, it doesn't feel like that. Like when I'm in the gym, it feels like it's booming. When I'm at Ursa, it feels like it's booming. When I'm doing anything outdoors here in the Flathead Valley, like it's busy, you know, restaurants, like everything feels good. But from this, we have this perception from B2B. So maybe you could just give us your thoughts on that, given like the perspective of the events you've been you've been attending recently.

Yeah, yeah. And I'll I'll connect it to my business because so what the industry is saying right now, outdoor industry and the bike industry, is that um, you know, things really grew during COVID, a lot of participation, everybody was out buying gear, and that now that there's a hangover, and that that's all coming coming back down. But I was at Sea Otter, which is, I think it's the world's largest consumer cycling event. So it's a combination of races and rides and a big giant vendor village. I've been to probably six or seven Sea Otters. It was the most packed, the most busy I've ever seen it. Um uh Saturday, I was at an event for the pros closet, the board that I'm on. Um they had an in-person event in their uh headquarters in Louisville, Colorado, packed. Demo bikes, um, another little vendor village packed. Um, so I'm just I you know, what consumers are doing isn't necessarily um reflecting what everybody's saying. Um and then KT, so we're we're on sort of a different cycle, and I think our business really reflects actual participation because when people uh overdo it, when they're active, when they're racing, when they're riding, whatever it is they're doing, um, our product um we are actually up almost 40% through April, almost 40% versus last year. So that means people are out doing the things. They're they're running, they're riding, they're lifting, they're doing those things. And so I do believe from a consumer product standpoint, outdoor goods, yes, there's probably a little bit of a an inventory hangover. Yes, people probably bought a lot of what they needed and are taking a little bit of a break and feeling the pain of a tough economy, but consumers are out there and they're doing it. And um, so our business is showing that. And I think it will come back for everybody soon, hopefully.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I I guess the point that I take away from that is that you know, we we let uh headlines like Peloton or Tonal dominate our thoughts about what's going on. But there's a lot more factors to the health of an industry besides revenues, right? I mean, it's activity, it's people's engaging, and and that's what ultimately what we're all into this for is like to get more people out on their bikes, more people into the gyms, right? More people exercising and just being healthier and and happier overall. So that's that's a really uh favorable sign, I think, when you look at it that way.

Yeah, and they'll come back and and start buying again. The good news is I think the participation that spiked during COVID, new people getting out for the first time riding or running, um, I think it's stuck. And I think people still have those schedules have changed, a lot of people have had to go back to the office. Um, there's still a much larger degree of flexibility that allows for that participation to continue.

Yeah. Well, if dovetail is nice. Let's tell us about what, for those who don't know, uh, what does KT tape do? You know, traditionally, and then what's what's been, and I granted you've been with a company 10 to 12 months, uh, so you you've probably been drinking through a fire hose, I would imagine, of that. But you know, you know the overall act, you know, outdoor or active lifestyle industry really well. Uh so give us, you know, from a high level what what it is that you guys do.

Yeah, I mean, we're in a really neat position because we straddle the sports and outdoor space, but we're also really health and wellness. And so company started in 2008 with the idea um to bring kinesiology tape to the masses. So kinesiology tape existed prior to the founding of KT, but it was previously thought that it was something that only clinicians could apply, that you had to go to the PT or the chiropractor to have them apply kinesiology tape to help uh solve whatever issue you're having. Our founders believed it was something that was simple enough that you actually could apply to yourself uh for for the uh various use cases. And so um and so our core business is kinesiology tape, uh, which um basically, for those that don't know what kinesiology tape does, it's different than a rigid athletic tape in that it's a stretchy athletic tape that you apply to the skin in various areas, and it helps with pain relief, muscle soreness. Um, you can use it preventatively if you know you have an issue that flares. Um, my husband has a a knee that nags and he puts it on before we mountain bike, but then you can also use it for recovery. So if you've overdone it, you have some muscle soreness post activity, you can apply it to the area. And then people ask, how does it work? Well, um, the really simple answer is that it provides a light amount of support, but then it also lifts the skin and it allows lymphatic drainage and allows more blood flow to the area. So it can help reduce swelling, um, and that's why it helps with pain release, relieving muscle soreness. So the majority of our business is still kinesiology tape, but we do also have products aside from that, we have pain relief gel, we have an amazing uh 360-degree ice sleeve that um it's a miracle for me. So if you've ever tried to ice your knee, you have to sit still, balance a bag of peas or whatever it is on your knee. This thing pulls on, provides 360-degree cooling so that you can still be a little bit mobile. It it fits um around the area. Um so we have a number of products outside of kinesiology tape, all around the theme of helping you prepare, perform, and recover. So we help you prepare for whatever it is, uh, whatever the activity is you want to do, um, perform in the moment and then recover afterwards if you've if you've overdone it. And so um, yeah, so that's the the gist of the the company today. However, um we in the kinesiology tape category, we have 80% market share of a small category. So in order to grow, we are kind of relaunching and refacing and re-energizing the brand to help grow that category.

Yeah. And from a historical standpoint, when you guys started, I think you said 08, right? Um who was the early adopters? Like what segments of the out of the active communities took on to it early?

Well, everybody knows us as volleyball. So when I introduced myself and introduced our work, they're like, oh, the volleyball brand. And it literally started. Um, the idea was born because our founders saw um Carrie Walsh wearing kinesiology tape from another brand during the Olympics, and they actually approached her and asked, What it is, could we help could they help bring that concept to the United States? It actually was born in Japan. Could they help popularize that with broader consumers? So it started with um, you know, top-tier athletes, had a legacy with the US Olympic Committee, and we still have a relationship with the US Olympic and Paralink Olympic Committee today, worked with a lot of different NGBs in team sports space. Um, and so, like many athletic brands, really started with top-tier athletes, um, a lot of triatriathlon running, and um so the the good news is you know, great legacy with these incredible teams and athletes at the highest level showing how it worked. The the downstream challenge of that is if you're a normal everyday athlete and you only saw that on Olympians, you felt like, well, that's maybe only for really serious athletes, so maybe it's not for me. So, our opportunity today is we have this great legacy of showcasing and using the product with these top-tier athletes and showing that it works in the toughest situations. The opportunity now is to showcase to people and show them and tell them that this is not just for Olympians, this is for all athletes. In fact, probably better serves the everyday athlete, the aging athlete, um, and people that don't have teams of, you know, uh therapists and and and um athletic trainers at their disposal.

Yeah, it's uh I remember, uh gosh, I want to say around 2011 when Kinesy kinesiology tape, got a tough word, uh, first hit the CrossFit world. And I at first I just thought, because if anyone's been in the CrossFit world, it's like, oh, this is like some kind of like body art, right? Like they're just kind of cool looking body art. And then uh, of course, I got my I've only been injured once doing CrossFit for the record. It just kept moving around my entire body to different spots. And you know, I started using it myself. I had a you know, a trainer put it on there. I was like, oh wow, that just feels it just feels more like it was a shoulder issue. Nobody can see this, but I'm moving around my shoulder, I'm like, okay, it just feels structurally more in place, right? And I don't know, you know, how much that was the actual physical effects that it had, how much of it was the mental effects of it, but uh I I've then it just boomed in in the CrossFit space. I mean, you don't even see like a competition nowadays without somebody wearing some form of kinesiology tape.

Yeah, I mean, it it it the effect is real, um and a big piece of it is proprioception, just feeling if you have an injury or you have an area that flares up, just an awareness of that that that that area. Um and you know, you know, with CrossFit and with any intense activity, um, people are bound to have uh injuries throughout. And that's why we um we actually identified some key sports that we want to focus on, key sports verticals, where we just think there there tend to be more issues, injuries, um, and we want to help those athletes with prevention again and with recovery. So those are running. So we've always had a deep connection with the running space. We attend and participate with 30, 40 marathon events. People line up for an hour to get taped by our team. Um cycling is one we hadn't focused on previously, but we know a lot of repetitive motion injuries, and that's why we um debuted ourselves at Seattle and we'll be showing up to more cycling events. Um weight training, um, CrossFit weight training in general, um, and then racket sports, um, um golf, golf, tennis, um, pickleball. And it doesn't mean we're ignoring those other spaces, but if people are injuring themselves in a team sport, generally, you know, it's because of the aforementioned um activities. And so we'll continue to support and feed youth in team sports. Uh, a lot of adults that I ask if they're familiar with us, they know of us through their kids wearing it for their team sports. We'll continue to honor the legacy in volleyball, um, uh, but really gonna focus on that that bullseye of uh running, cycling, weight training, golf, and racket sports.

Well, that that's a huge. I mean, I most most people who are active will touch on one of those things, right? Like to do all the things that I love to do, I weight train, I run, yeah, I do all of those things. I haven't tried pickleball yet, but it feels like it's you're gonna have to. I gotta have to, right? It's one just gonna have to. So you uh I want to talk about the rebrand from a couple different perspectives. And I guess, you know, as the CEO overseeing, you know, a big rebrand like you did, uh, what is that process like? And you can just use that in context of what you guys did. I mean, it's it's a big, it's a big deal, right? I mean, it's your it's your forward-facing brand, it's how you communicate, it's how you position yourselves, it's it's so many things. And I think a lot of people just think rebrand is like, oh, well, we'll just change some colors on the website. But no, it's much deeper than that. So tell us about that experience.

And I'm glad you called that out because I think some brands make the mistake of treating it as just a logo or a very surface level rebrand. And that's where I think sometimes it fails. Um, I've done this intensely three times now, and it's you know, really one of the most fun things you can do in your career. Did it with Belle, did it with Skull Candy, and now with KT. And in each case, what was important was really getting deep first and not treating it as a surface level rebrand. So, in all three cases, it started with going back in history and seeing what defined the brand in its early days. For Bell, actually, it was really fun because Bell founded in 1954 in a garage in Southern California. It was all about the dirt. And that little nugget is what. Redefine that brand. So it was BMX, Motocross, et cetera. With Skull Candy, it went back to our founder literally conceived the idea while sitting on a chairlift in Park City, Utah. And same for KT. So really getting back to the history, talking to the founders to understand what made the brand successful in its early days, why it was successful, and identifying a core set of truths, a core purpose, vision, values. And so for KT, we reset ourselves around a new purpose to empower movement, to unleash everybody's potential. And through that process, it was very internal. We did not use a big external agency. That was true of Skull Candy as well. And I think it works best when you really harness from within and talk to your own people and get as far as you can. You might need an agency to help at some point. But I think you got to do the internal soul searching first. And so we actually, for that purpose, it started off as everybody's potential and we changed it to everybody's potential because going back to what I was saying earlier, we really needed to start to talk to a wider audience of people, not just professional athletes. We wanted to talk to the everyday athletes, um, all body types, um, and really help them perform. And so we had this core purpose, our vision. Um, it used to be all centered around um drug-free solutions, and kinesiology tape is a great alternative to ingesting something. Um, but we've evolved that to helping active consumers to prepare, perform, and recover so that we look at that full journey. And then we have a new set of values which are now um 20 feet high on the wall next to me here in the building, uh, which is stronger together, move first, stick to it, embrace the journey, work hard and play harder. And that um we had to start there. And so we we let that marinate for a while. We started to do things internally with our employees to cement those values so that they were truly meaningful and not just a pretty PowerPoint presentation. And so once we did that, um, we knew the identity then needed a refresh. And so, linked to that, all of all of our marketing, all of our packaging showcased Olympic athletes. And we love them and we still love them and we still work with some of them. But it was intimidating as we started to talk to consumers, it was really intimidating. And so when we asked people, do you know what kinesiology tape is? Yeah, kind of. Um, have you used it? And and in many cases, the the answer is no. And when we asked why, it was literally because they were intimidated by what they were seeing from what we put out there. So it seemed like it was only for serious athletes. So they just didn't feel like it was for them. So that was the nugget that we had to change. And so complete identity overhaul, new packaging, new website, end-to-end everything. We wiped out Instagram on April 10th and started over, uh, which is scary. And so all of it is featuring um still aspirational athletic folks, but in in situations and in the sports that I talked about, um, but more regular people, not professional athletes. Um, and just trying to show um, you know, showcase that you you can see yourself in those scenarios. And so freshened up our identity. Um, we actually are have changed our name from KT Tape to just KT so that we're not totally anchored just on the tape, and um a lot more contemporary view, and then the the marketing, um, we actually were doing a ton of television advertising and uh yeah, uh and and spending a big portion of our marketing investment on television. So we've completely moved away from that. Digital first, digital and social, uh, and then combined with a healthy mix of in real life activities, because we know that when we put tape on bodies, it's magical. So uh when we were at Sea Otter, we were out grabbing people and pulling them into the booth, asking them what ailment they had, and almost everybody has some sort of issue. And we would tape them up, and they would either instantly give us feedback that they could feel the difference, or they'd walk away and they'd come back to our booth an hour later, a day later, like wow, um amazed, amazed by the outcome. So um heavily digital marketing, and then also just embedding ourselves in the communities where regular folks interact and get their content. So we've announced partnerships with Outside Plus, Runners World, Strava. We have a challenge uh that launched today on Strava, and then um working with Expert Voice, which is a platform to help educate retail store staff and provide industry discounts to um folks in our industry. And so just really digging in. And then one of the other pieces is we'll still have our top-tier teams and athletes that we work with, but we also launched a program called the Collective, and that is to uh partner with and activate regular, literally regular everyday athletes. These are people that aren't normally sponsored, they're people that might have 2,000 followers that are closest friends, um, but they're highly engaged, they love our product, um, and so we're gonna use them as product testers and uh use them for feedback on our product, and then just really, really showcase actual, real people in the wild using our product. And so if you now go look at our website, our social media presence, um, our booth presence at all these events, it's a much fresher look and aesthetic that articulates that new purpose.

One of the things I noticed too, and that's that's all like that's what I was go, that's what I was hoping you would say, like the amount of thought and work and stages that you went through to do this rebrand, like it's it's very intentional, extremely intentional. The one of the things I pulled away from the website too, I mean, and I'm sure it's it's something that was well planned, was the um education and instruction, right? Yes, like like making like what is KT, like how does it work? Like everything you kind of summarized earlier was was really done well in like I don't know, it was like a two or three minute video on what it is, and and then the instructional, like it's all free on the website. You just go there, you can learn how to apply versus you know to different body parts for different reasons. That's uh I think that's really you know demystifies a lot of it too.

Thank you for teeing that up for me. My CMO would have killed me for not uh mentioning that because that's probably one of the biggest pieces, is that I think we got a little comfortable thinking that most people understood what kinesiology tape is, what it does, how it works, how to apply it. Um, but the reality is there's an enormous part of the population that doesn't. And um, and so uh yeah, so we were very intentional about a suite of content that starts at the top of the funnel, which is what is it, why does it work, how does it work? So we have a series of short videos that explain it, visualize it to get people interested and considering using it. But then the next hurdle is okay, I understand it. I think this might be for me. How do I apply it? Can I apply it to myself? And so there's a whole suite of videos on um how to apply the tape all the way down to each body part. And so we've been refilming all the top videos, and a key nuance in that is we used to show uh a clinician applying it to the body. All of our videos now show um people applying the tape to themselves, unless it's a really hard-to-reach area, because you really can't apply it to yourself. It really is simple, it really only takes a couple of minutes, um, and you can't really mess it up. And so we put a lot of attention into filming these videos and even one step further. So, right now you can find all these videos on our website, you can find them on YouTube just by searching for the body part um that you want to apply it to. But at the end of May, uh, we will be launching a very user-friendly consumer app, also free of charge. Nice. We're not trying to monetize it. We genuinely believe and want to get people uh understanding and using it. And so it'll get even simpler. You'll literally come into the uh welcome screen, you'll see what we call tape man or tape woman, and you point to the body part that hurts or that you have trouble with, and it will pull up a series of videos uh on the knee or the elbow or the back. And um, it'll have the same video content as we have online, but it actually has a feature where it plays it by chapter. One of the problems is if you're standing on one leg and you're trying to tape yourself, um, sometimes the videos move too fast for you to follow. If you've ever tried to um follow a cooking video, like it's yeah, I was just gonna say cooking.

Yeah.

Wow. So it actually goes in little chapters. So step one, pause, step two, pause, or you can put it on loop. So it's gonna be uh an amazing educational tool, totally free, and we'll continue to add additional content uh over time.

Yeah, that's really interesting. Uh it's it's a really good point for people listening too. Uh if you haven't figured out, we are recording in May of 2023. So all this stuff will most likely be out by the time this is published, which is uh really exciting. Um and uh, you know, thinking about that user experience too, is that, and this is just me anecdotally, but if I have like, let's say, a bunch like my shoulder or something like that, it's continuously nagging at me, is once I learn how to apply it, it's almost going to become ritual for me every time I go out and lift or I run or whatever it may be. So it's a very like no pun intended, a sticky product for a lot of people, right?

Totally. I mean, just some personal anecdotes. I um I've I'm like uh I've I've turned a certain age this year. Uh I ride bicycles a lot and I'm getting a little lower back pain. So I just I apply the tape to my lower back before I ride, and it will help stave off the pain instead of waiting until after the fact when I'm already in pain. My husband does the same thing on his knee, applies it to his knee an hour before we ride, and it helps prevent the pain. And so that's uh part of what we're hoping to teach people is that you can use it preventatively. It's just easy habit. Um, just like you would, I don't know, take your vitamin in the morning, uh, whatever your pre-ride ritual is, um, add it along with the electrolytes. Uh, it can help prevent uh prevent pain. Ski season, beginning of season, quads, just applied the tape before heading out. Um, and it's a it's a low cost of entry for be up for people to be able to prevent pain, prevent soreness, and continue to enjoy the activity that they love.

Yeah. And there there's some themes I've noticed this year so far as well. And uh, you know, every year uh I feel like I pick up on new themes like you know, last year it was connected, right? Or two years ago it was connected, then it became personalization. And now this year, it's a couple of key terms, especially uh with what I do with the team at workout, is um prescriptive influencers, is what what we're calling them, which essentially your collective, right? Is is people who may not be the 200,000 Instagram follower influencers, and I'm using quotes, right? Air quotes as we do it, but people who do have a certain amount of influence over their circle, it may just not be focused on Instagram. But once you kind of get into them, like all the time I get uh you know asked, or my wife get asked, or within her CrossFit gym, there's certain things that get passed around from the coaches and the trainers, and that, you know, harnessing that, and then also, you know, we can call personalization, but I also kind of take one step farther and say protocols. I feel like every individual who is active, right, should have protocols for themselves. Like, okay, my knee's flaring up, what's my protocol, right? Or um, like I just met with uh a therap, uh physical therapist because of a calf issue. And you know, now I have protocols for my warm-ups to make sure when I run, I do it correctly. So it's it's a really uh, I don't know if that's something you guys have noticed in probably different terminology, but obviously you're taking action on it with the collective and and the things that you're developing through your content.

Totally. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a combination. If you look at, you know, this is a very serious serious personal topic. If you have issues or you're in pain, or you have an area that flares up. And I do think those smaller, I love your term, prescriptive influence influencers, those smaller ambassadors, humans are sometimes way more influential than a much larger influencer, air quotes again, where people are getting smart and they know that they're paid. Like these ambassadors are using, they're unpaid people that truly we've found them because they love and believe and are already using the product. They're not someone that we've gone out and found and said, Will you use our product and we will pay you? And so I think as consumers are getting more and more educated and almost jaded towards the old um influencer model, we we love that smaller model of people that are that are genuine. And I think um, you know, people are seeing it in real use cases. Like, who would who would you trust more? Your friend that you know participates in the same activities. Um we definitely believe in a little more both in real life combination of digital plus in real life when you're seeing it on the ground and we're putting tape on bodies, um, and then these smaller influencers, because we feel like they actually have more influence, though at a smaller scale than some of the bigger ones.

Yeah. And that's uh it's a very exciting time because I think a lot of companies and brands are realizing that or forced to. I mean, as you know, like cost of digital advertising is significant, right? And it's not quite as effective as it may be. And these, you know, the uh what we call the more classical influencer plays with uh you know affiliate codes and all that, that's become cumbersome, right? And it's people just don't trust it as more. They're just tired of being sold to all the time by the same people. But like you said, like that, you know, that uh that friend in your basketball league or that you know the coach at your crossfoot floor, whatever it may be, these are people who who hold a lot of influence. My you know, my physical therapist. I he's a great guy. I would do whatever he said to do.

In fact, uh another segue, we um I haven't really mentioned that um what we're calling it sports medicine category, but we um we hadn't really paid enough attention probably to um that clinical sports medicine category as a brand. We because our mission was to bring it to the masses. And so rightfully we were focused on on retail, but we realized one of the biggest influences is that um that that clinical channel. So that's your your chiropractor, massage therapist, um, athletic trainer. And a lot of people first find out about kinesiology tape through that um channel. And so we are making a big much bigger emphasis in supporting um those people, giving them the right pricing so that they can utilize it, actually doing um maybe a couple special products for them so that they start to use us. One of our bigger competitors had done a really great job in that space and and owned that space. And we feel now that there's opportunity for our brand to play there. And um, you know, the we're everywhere. So um the the crazy thing is, most people are chasing direct consumer. It's probably gonna sound crazy when I say this out loud, but direct to consumer actually isn't our biggest focus. Um sell online, um, it's available to you if you want it. But the behavior in our category as a consumer is if you want it, if you're in pain, you want it, you want it now. And so that behavior is to go walk into retail, go walk into the local CVS, Walgreens, Stick Sporting Goods, um, or Amazon, where you know you're gonna get it right away. And so we've actually been much more focused on cultivating our retail partners than we have on building our own direct to consumer. And some people look at me like we're crazy. Um, but the reality is you got to follow where the consumer is going, you got to follow the consumer behavior. And financially, I think everybody thought it was this panacea of margin um selling direct to consumer because you're selling for full retail. But with the cost of, you mentioned it, with the cost of advertising and advertising efficiency lately, if you're really looking at your fully burdened cost selling direct to consumer, it ends up being uh the same or in some cases worse than when you're selling uh wholesale.

That's a really valuable point. And it it's not, you're the first one to articulate it really well on the podcast, but it's it's something that a lot of companies are feeling that are D to C. And you know, I know because I have these conversations about opening up a whole new distribution, you know, whatever it may be. We don't want to call it retail, we don't want to call it distribution or distributor or wholesaler, even you know, at workout, but we're opening up, you know, prescriptive e-commerce is what we're starting to nail it down. And that's that's a key part because you're right. I mean, there's certain things that people need to try at within a certain time frame, and it's almost always better if they can feel it and touch it, right? Like before they buy it, like take it out of the box. You know, they shouldn't do that if they go to a Walgreens or wherever they go, but you know, they're they're gonna want to, right? Feel it and look at the instructions and get a feel for it. So it's it's fascinating the times that we're that we're in, because it seems to be coming back full circle. It's like, oh, retail is now.

I know. Well, and you see all these, I mean, there's a reason why all the digitally native brands are now opening their own retail stores, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm curious as you, because you've got all this experience in mostly in consumer products and brands. Um when you come into like a company like KT, you know, what what do you bring with you? I mean, there's a lot of experience and knowledge, but is there certain like, you know, I guess, uh values or certain like um things that you know are going to apply to every single business that you go to? Principles, I guess, would be the best way to describe it.

I mean, probably a couple things. I mean, what one um really broad thing is I think as businesses, um, KT was very healthy healthy when I joined it. We had 80% market share, but we needed to grow faster. And I've worked on other brands that needed fixing, but in all cases, the common thread was um really just getting back to the fundamentals. I think brands lose their way and um really just evaluating the fundamentals, really getting back to just our very core purpose and living by that. There's always um every brand I think suffers from mission creep, where they start dabbling in too many things and they start entering categories they shouldn't or distributing where they shouldn't. And um, so in all the businesses where I've been able to have influence, have really tried to identify that that core purpose and use that as a core filter and and use it as we do these things. Some people treat it as a cute, fluffy marketing thing, but to me, it's most powerful if it's used as a true filter for the whole business. So, how you make decisions on what products should you or shouldn't you launch? Where should you or shouldn't you distribute? Um, what types of people should you hire to support the business? And so if you're using those core core purpose, core values as a true filter for the business and not just the brand, it almost always works. Um, I also believe um I was not a uh classic marketer. I actually grew up more on the product development side, um, product development, innovation, design. And so I've always felt like product is king. Like no matter how amazing your marketing is, if you don't have a good product pipeline with innovative product that speaks to the consumer, no amount of marketing can make up for that. So I do believe you have to have a robust product pipeline. So we talked a lot about our brand relaunch, but as part of that, we actually really revved up our product innovation engine, had another new product launch uh about a week and a half ago, have more in the pipe that you have to have uh robust innovation coming. And then, you know, people in culture, if you have bad culture, low engagement, no matter how great your product is, no matter how great your marketing is, if you have unhappy humans, um, it's just never gonna work. And so um all those things intimately connected. And so I try each business I've come in, I've tried to identify what is that core purpose, what are the values that can drive the team, what are the key products that support all of that? Um, and then how do we um make sure our people are are happy and thriving? Um, and a big piece of that is um simplifying strategy in such a way that everybody understands it. I think strategy can get really complicated. Um, you know, you see hundred-page decks, 150-page decks, we have one, but we also have a one page version. And so I think if I had to pick one of my superpowers, I think it's looking at a complex ecosystem at a company and Uber simplifying down to three to five things that you can do to move the needle and staying, um, staying on it and not waffling and not. Deviating and not changing your mind six months in, like really picking three to five things and staying true to that and executing on it religiously so that every single human in the company in any every level, every function understands what those three to five things are, so we can all do it together. Um, and I think if you do all that and you communicate clearly and recognize people for their efforts, like you get happy people, you get motivated people, uh, you get execution, and then you ultimately get great results. And um it's a wonderful flywheel because everybody, everybody loves winning. And when you're when you're winning and doing it together, um, you can accomplish quite a lot. And um and the results just come along with that.

Yeah, I love it. That's that's simplification is so key. And you know, I'm I'm thinking back to because this is just a recent interview, so it's top of mind, but uh interviewed the team from Garmin Health.

Yeah.

And I I love that brand. Like I bought stock in them over the pandemic. Like they've just been around for decades and they've always and one of the things that I I really pulled out of that interview is that everything they do, their product development is all born from like passions of people on the team.

Yeah.

Like if they're building a specific product for a specific sport, let's say it's you know, um, a better heart rate monitor for swimming, it's because someone on their team is a swimmer, yeah. Right. And wants a better product for that. And then that makes it easy for you know the culture and the passion to develop around it. And I think that's really I would imagine just from the people I've spoken to, Ryan and Ken on your team, you know, they seem very focusy, very, very much in the lifestyle of what you guys do. Is that something that that you guys consider as well?

Yeah, I I mean, I will say I I absolutely believe in that. And it's um, I mean, companies like this and the past companies that I've worked for naturally attract people that love the sport and the lifestyle and want to live it. I would add to that that yes, we need that, we love that, we have that, but you also have to listen to the consumer because I think sometimes you can get um too close to it and get uh and and uh or you can age out of it. Like it I think the best combination is having those internal, passionate people, but then also really listening to the consumer. So we've um we've done two things since I got here. One is uh we've launched on this consumer panel that I love. It's like a very modern way of doing consumer insights where you uh a little advertising message for these guys. It's called Susie. Um, it's literally the gamification of consumer insights. And so instead of doing big long surveys, where you how old are you? What's your gender? Where do you live? Blah, blah, blah, blah, where it takes 20 minutes to get to the actual question. They have a panel of millions of people that you can tap into and ask like real-time questions. You can ask one question at a time. So we have a panel of kinesiology tape users that we hit up and we can ask during the development process real-time questions uh about burning topics for innovation. Um, and so I think you gotta have a little bit of both. And then the third leg of that stool, I would say, is you know, internal passion, consumer insights, and then really tapping into some experts. So we have reformed a new medical panel that includes um uh folks from a couple of different disciplines, athletic trainer, chiropractor, um podiatrist, uh, orthopedic surgeon. So that we're really touching into the experts uh on how to solve for certain problems.

Yeah, I love it. And is that Susie, is it su-z-y.com?

S-U-Z-Y is the name of the company, and then the consumer-facing application is called CrowdTap. And it's um an app you put on your phone, and you you literally, if you were to download CrowdTap on your phone, you might get one question about what's your favorite coffee. But then the next question might be about your workout regimen, and the next coffee, the next question might be about automobiles. And so uh instead of getting like professional survey takers, um, it's a it's a I think younger, younger crowd, you get a cross-section of general population, but it's um quick hit questions, and you'll get 500 responses overnight. It's awesome.

Wow. Wow. Yeah, I just bookmarked all of that. So I'm gonna take a look at it. Uh the uh last question I always like to ask, Jessica, is you know, what spirit of you know collaboration is what do you need right now, you know, from a CEO company standpoint? Um what would you like to hear from people about?

Oh um, gosh, such a good question. I mean, from from other from other other other people in the space. Um, I mean, always love to hear how people are handling um the current work environment, um, what's working remote, hybrid. Uh, we're on a hybrid setup and we feel like it's working great, but I want to continue to hear about the best practices in managing uh diverse and young workforce in in today's age. Um always love hearing about you know how people are managing innovation. You know, we have a pretty lean team, so we try to craft you know a combination of internal and external resources. Um I've worked at some really big companies that were deep, deep with resources. This is a pretty small, scrappy company, so I love to hear how people are managing innovation. Um, and then I guess third, always love to hear how people are handling marketing technology. The there's so many. We've gone, you know, we've just gone through relaunch of our website, uh, restage of our some of our marketing resources. There are so many choices. Yeah, so many platforms.

Exhausting.

It's mind-boggling. And so always love to hear best practices and what people are using to to manage their tech stack and their marketing automation because it feels like it's changing every single day.

Well, because it is, really. Uh well, Jessica, this is this has been a lot of fun. I I really appreciate it. If people want to uh get a hold of you, or if there's anywhere online you you'd like them to go, uh what what would you like to sell tell them?

Go visit katape.com to check out KT, and then I'm uh often talking about leadership, and I've been uh sharing this brand evolution about KT on LinkedIn.

Awesome. Awesome. Jessica, thank you so much for spending this. Is a Monday. I don't do many recordings on Monday, but I I really appreciate it because it's usually a very busy day, especially for CEOs. So um appreciate the time. And ladies and gentlemen, Jessica Claudmicke. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.