Jessica Goldenberg - Warner Music Group & Innovation in Music Licensing

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. Hey friends, I couldn't be more proud and excited to announce that today's episode is powered by Workout, the ultimate tool for modern fitness professionals just like you. There is one thing that fires me up. It's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like Hyperites, Vega, and more. Product lines cover everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases the product you already endorsed. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business with store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-t.com. Just 1-0. W-r-k-o-ut- go get it. All right, we are live. Jessica Goldenberg, welcome to the future of fitness.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

I'm fired up. I love the topic. I mean, I love music. I love artists. Uh I love fitness. I love health, right? And it's like that intersection of everything that you do uh in your role is really integral to it. So I was really happy when um you know I got reached out to you and and got offered the opportunity to interview you here and what you're doing at Warner Music Group. I mean, just set the table, you know, I think I've talked about this uh music licensing one or two times within the span of this podcast. And it's always, you know, I think uh Sync Floor and what they do with uh you know licensing independence. But you you you all have the big dogs, right? The Lizzos, the Coldplays, the Ed Sheerans, like these artists that everyone, you know, it's just household names. And, you know, like you said in some of the correspondence leading up to this, is really the goal that you guys have is to make this simpler, faster, and cheaper for fitness and health companies to access music because it's so critical uh to what we do. And and maybe it's not the center focus of the business all the time, it's not mission critical, but pretty darn important and maybe mission critical for a lot of it too. So anyway, I'm gonna stop talking. Let's do this, Jessica. If you don't mind, just give us a little bit of your background on your backstory, and then we'll we'll get into the meat of it.

Sure. So I've been at Warner Music uh for about eight years, and I actually, unlike a number of my colleagues, I am not an accomplished musician. Um instead, my my love of music actually is through a fitness angle. So I was a dancer for years. Uh, I still am, I still recreationally dance, I am a runner, and so a lot of my music uh passion came through fitness and and and the critical tie-in there. Um and so at Warner, I do deals on behalf of all of our labels. So the Spotify deal and Meta and Amazon, but a portion of that is actually all of our digital fitness, and now we're we're looking much more broadly, so we'll call it digital wellness. Um so I was I jumped at the chance to work on some of the early fitness deals. So that's the Pelotons and the Actives. Um and then PAN, and this was a market that obviously has been growing, the digital fitness market growing for some time. Pandemic hits, and every single physical boutique, uh gym needs a digital offering and wants to figure out how to license music. So we had a real influx of partners just trying to figure out how to quickly get an app up and running. Uh, and it, you know, we have just continued to talk to a number of partners in the digital fitness space. So that's how I landed here, and and it's um a big part of my role at Warner, and one of my favorite parts uh is this fitness wellness category. We're always looking for um where the the next real music use case is, and we see this market as a big one. And it's so critical. The tie between music and uh fitness is one that's been longstanding, but also for our artist, right? It's such a great opportunity to meet their fans in a in a different context and and be elsewhere. So it's it's been of big interest, you know, whenever we're talking to our artists about fitness opportunities, it's it's a big interest of theirs as well.

Oh, that's good to hear. Out of curiosity, uh dancing, your dancing career, was any particular discipline that you worked with in?

So I was it was ballet for a number of years, and and then transitioned to hip-hop when I was no longer when you're uh ballet requires obviously a certain level of intensity. Uh and when I went back to do ballet as an adult, it did not look like what it had looked like when I was training. So I was like, I'm gonna do hip hop and do open. So I would do Broadway dance and do open classes, and I still do a bit of that. And now I really enjoy uh cardio fitness classes, so 305 fitness and dance body and things of that sort.

Yeah. Uh well that's great. And I have I've always, you know, in my coaching career, I've I always liked when I was doing like an intake with somebody uh in a consultation and they had dancing in their background because it just made them so much easier to coach. Like some of the dancers and gymnasts, it was just like a piece of cake to teach new skills and and always had great work ethic too. So I admire it. Um so let's talk about music licensing as a whole. You know, maybe you could give us an update on like what the state of the industry is in that area and in relation to wellness. And you know, I think for the sake of this conversation, we'll just call wellness. We'll, you know, we'll kind of be the overall category of fitness and health, right? Um, so yeah, what what is the current state?

Sure. So I will be honest, licensing music is difficult. Um, there are various ways to do it, and and what we're really devoted to right now is simplifying that. So there are a number of different parties that when when someone goes to license music, they have to speak to. It's the recording side and then the publishing side. Um so historically, there was essentially sync licensing where you would go and clear individual tracks and you'd reach out to the label, you'd reach out to the publisher, and you'd get clearance on on very distinct tracks. Where I sit, and essentially where the market has moved is the need to do licensing at scale, right? Like a Peloton class, you need many tracks. Um, and and it it's fast-paced, and you want to open up a full library. Um, so the way that essentially works is for full catalog, um a partner will do deals with the three majors. So that's us and Sony and UMG, and then all the publishers. So it can involve a number of parties. And what we realized uh during pandemic essentially was it if for fitness apps where music isn't their bread and butter, it can be incredibly complicated. Uh, so I think that the industry as a whole has been trying to make it simpler. Um, and that uh for us specifically, we're doing a lot of different things to deliver. We have so many tracks, right? And uh in the wellness category, you don't need everything, unlike a Spotify where you want every single thing. So we're working on ways to deliver less content, and also um basically the structure is uh to simplify the economics as well. So that's been a been a big effort here at Warner. Um, but those would be the the the major ways that people essentially license music um and to work with the publishing side of things to simplify there as well.

You know, I and tell me if I'm wrong, but when I when I think of music licensing in the fitness wellness space, um and especially coming from like maybe an independent gym owner or you know, uh someone who's doing online content, you know, we were talking about Shane Farmer, dark horse rowing, and his needs for good music. You know, on that angle, the first thoughts that come to mind is like, okay, I'm either gonna get, I'm gonna pay a lot of money for the music that people know and love, and it's gonna be some kind of really complicated payment structure where I'm gonna pay, you know, per use or per like it's just it's very intimidating. Let me put it that way. It sounds intimidating, it sounds like it's not for me. Um, and I would imagine a lot of people, you know, who are in that same kind of independent space, and it I would think it's also like, oh, that's for the big guys, that's for the Pelotons, that's for the supernaturals, that's for the people who have these, you know, big, big amount of dollars to play with and capital to, you know, to put into the market. So is is that kind of an assumption correct, or is that something that people need to change their minds on?

We'd like for people to change their minds on it. Um I I would say that assumption is correct historically, and and that was the approach. It was uh the that the Pelotons and the supernaturals of the world, uh, both great partners, and um obviously music plays a critical role in both of those services. What uh what I would say we are devoted to doing is in fact not having that huge bar of you need to be it needs to be really expensive and it needs to be really complicated, and you need to have a really sophisticated technical solution in order to host the content, in order to report on the content. Um, there needs to be, and it's technological fixes on on our end as well, um, in order to simplify uh the process. But I would say if you had asked me three years ago, two years ago, that would 100% I would have said yes. That that kind of is the state of affairs. Um, there is a ton of work to be done, um, but that is happening now so that all the little guys can have music too. And that's what we want. We want all of you know the wellness space to be able to use popular music if it if it suits their uh product and reach their consumers. So I would say changing rapidly.

Okay, good. And I even as you're kind of describing that, like, gosh, even for myself, like you know, my my intro to my podcast, I would love it to be like, I want Chris Stapleton music, right? Or something like that. I don't know if my audience would be like, really, Eric? Um, I love that guy. But it's just it's always been, you know, I'm like, oh, that's not for me. I'll never be able to get it. And I guess maybe let's let's break this down into something that's you know, a uh, you know, a particular use case. So let's say I own five gyms, right? Group group class model. Maybe I also have some hybrid solution. I have an app where people can maybe stream a few classes or do a you know a Zoom workout from home, you know, kind of like the new breed, right? Uh what is music licensing process look like for those people now?

Yeah, so essentially, depending on the breadth of catalog, they would come to Warner, Sony Universal, or a subset, right? We all have different artists, so you could decide to go to everyone. You would also go to all of the major publishers, and then there are there are the performance societies as well to get performance rights. So it is a number of parties, and and publishing is fragmented, so you would potentially need to go to uh not only the major publishers but beyond that uh to match up all the rights. They they often also go to an aggregator to essentially deliver the content and and to help report on the content. Um this is if you want to do this at scale. So if you want to have all the tracks available in the world so that you don't go back for each track and say to the specific rights holder, are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Um, that is the process. And so most um gyms or boutique fitness offerings have a consultant specific to the music space, lawyers specific to the music space. There are some innovation licenses out there and other simpler solutions, but to get everything, that would be the process. Uh and essentially, though the one thing I would say is we all are open doors. So if you come and try and speak to any of the majors, including us, we get on the phone and we'll explain how it all works. Um, but it is not without time up front. I would say putting the time in up front makes the aft like the back end very simple. You can use whatever content you want. You go forward, yeah, like once you have your pipe set up, your reporting set up, um, but it is uh time consuming at the front end. What we've kind of done, what we're doing is so that you don't have to take all that content and also kind of matching up some of the data on the rights, so it is a lot easier to know who, you know, where you'd have to go on the other rights. It's instead it's not 100% controlled by us. Um so I would say that is where it is the market is is moving. Um and more unique cost structures, historically the cost structures are often on a per subscriber basis. Um, and that that's been moving around a lot as well.

So if you had to uh wave your hand in a magic wand, right, and create a better experience for people who want to license music, and maybe this is kind of the you know the North Star for you and your team at Warner, what what would you like to see that look like? What's the opportunities that we can realistically achieve with simplifying that process?

Yeah, so what what we hope to do at Warner is have a subset of catalog that um there is a an innovation style license where for a set cost um most rights are cleared and a uh basically any client can essentially use it, test it out, and then if if it's scalable, enter into the other model, which essentially is everything. Um, but that would be the goal to start. Um, and that's where we are headed. Um, and that's what I would do with my magic wand, I would have it be a one-step shop, but uh that is rights beyond and copyright law beyond my control. Uh, but what we're moving towards is making it a couple step shop and a clear the the way the economics are historically set up on the music side is so that as companies grow, we earn alongside them. So it's not meant to, it's meant to be based on subscribers, but I think for some smaller companies, a fixed cost is actually um more palatable.

Yeah. And is there uh, you know, we we alluded to in the beginning here of digital fitness and its rise and then its subsequent correction that we're experiencing right now. You know, is is it still, and we're uh just wrapping up Q1 2023 for people as we're as we're recording this, but is is uh is digital fitness still the kind of like the overwhelming majority of licensing that you guys do within the wellness space, or is you know the brick and mortar in real life space just as big? Like give give us an idea of like what is that balance between the two? And then of course there's crossover with a lot of different brands where they have both.

Yeah, so a lot of brick and mortar do they do the deals are not direct into record labels. A lot of gyms will just go through um a B2B solution to have essentially radio in the background, and or they use um downloads or an app for you know things like SoulCycle in-person classes. So the digital the digital component is definitely on the rise. We I mean, we're we are all experiencing uh what what we think is a correction and and is a little bit of an overcorrection in the market, right? Pandemic, there was this huge uplift, and uh we still see a lot of space and room for growth, and think that this is essentially a moment. Um, because the I mean the digital use case, there's so many uh opportunities in digital, right? Like it's it is less expensive than in person for the people you pay 40. I live in New York City, you pay you pay 35 years old. You're at premiere rates, yes, uh, for for one of these boutique fitness classes, whereas you subscribe to an app and it's all you can eat for for uh much less. Um, I I think it speaks to people who are not necessarily in such a cosmopolitan environment, right? During pandemic, my mom uh used to go to Zumba at her local gym. Well, she's getting classes that are a lot of the New York City instructors are professional dancers. So it I think that the caliber of the digital fitness opportunity for people who are not necessarily in metropolitan areas is is huge. Um, in terms of flexibility, right? Your schedule. So I'm a new mom and I I love in-person fitness. Like to be fair, I am like back out at all my classes, but there's times when it's so much more efficient to do the digital component. So I do think in terms of like we see a lot of opportunity there, uh, but it's certainly a balance with with the in-person component. Um, and then we said we were calling it wellness, uh, but that there's a lot of opportunity beyond everyone is there's there's a lot of preventative medical research uh within the wellness and music space, um, how music can impact uh mental health and how music can impact pain and other things of that sort. And we think there's a lot of opportunity there.

Yeah. Yeah, that's I I want to unpack that a little bit. I mean, I you know, the importance of music in in the exercise realm is is critical. I mean, I, you know, anecdotally, I I agree in CrossFit Gyms. And if anyone's ever been in a CrossFit gym, you know that music becomes uh a very uh a point of argument, really, uh during many classes. And you know, I'm I'm just glad like I don't have to listen to dubstep for a very long time because I oof man, that was uh yeah, I couldn't I couldn't deal with it anymore. But it it it's a very um it's a strong motivator, right? It it changes your your mood and your mindset, and it's it's incredible what good music can do. So when you talk about you know how it can affect mental health, give us some more insights. Like what are you seeing in that specifically? Like that that's a curious point.

Yeah, so I mean, on the on the CrossFit side, I I think it's pretty well known that in in a fitness context, right? I mean, even just anecdotally, you work out longer and harder, and it feels like less time when the music really fits the class. Um, and there are a number of scientific studies that that support that, um, that the music is pretty critical. And and we have, I think it also is part of in a world where fitness is the fitness instructor, is an influencer and a brand in of themselves, the music component helps them in terms of their community, in terms of setting the mode. Um what the next wave, and and obviously this is happening in partnerships with universities and with uh scientists, which I am not, um, behind them. But the next wave of of apps, and there's there's uh music health, there's a number of apps out there that have that are that are doing real research as to and and finding real results within all of mental health and that depression. Um there's some research into Alzheimer's, um, and that music really can play a role there in in being part of prevention and cure. Um so I I do think that's the the next big area. And it's It's it's more early days in terms of I you know I'm not uh but it it's it's a a big the the next big step I think would be in those areas um and and seeing a lot of of cool things come out of that.

Well I mean music is definitely a a performance dancing drug, right? Like I I mean you you're a runner, like in in in the running world, listening to music uh can be frowned upon, if not straight up banned, right, from competition because it does help. I mean, I I've run races with and without music, and there's a things just like you're right, they just time flies by, right? You get a cadence, you just get in the zone, you don't feel the discomfort as you would if you were uh you know not listening to music. So it's it's definitely it's definitely a huge part of it. In the industry, we we tend to call the 80%, you know, the the people, the general estimated percentage of people who don't engage in any kind of fitness or health or wellness program, right? Um, the rather sedentary inactive group, which you know is uh just depressingly a humongous part of our population. Um and it's not good, right? We all know that. That's like we're we're not healthy overall. But when you look at like your partnerships with something like Supernatural and or maybe some of the other companies and brands that you work with, is how do you see music playing a role and starting to get those people more activated and more focused on their wellness?

Yeah, I mean, I think music has huge opportunities there. People who are not necessarily interested in fitness are interested in artists and drawing them in. I mean, we have such a breadth of catalog, but for older adults, we have all this Grateful Dead content, and we've seen like a ton of people really want to jump in and experience that. And you know, we had, I guess one of our one of our favorite um use cases was Lizzo on Peloton. Um, but she speaks such body positivity. Lizzo has a huge fan base. She essentially was um, she there was we do artist rides frequently, so it was a Lizzo ride, and she actually went into the studio and surprised everyone. So they did not expect an in-person Lizzo appearance, and the result was that the um the app from we believe from so many people trying to log in and experience the live Lizzo experience, the the app crashed. Um, and people were blocked off Peloton for a period of time. But I do think it, I do think it speaks to what a you know a huge draw that these artists have and can really bring people uh into the fitness space. I think there's also a ton of artists speaking about mental health these days and and being conscious and being uh open about mental health. And I think there's a lot. Um it just it changes the culture. Artists and music have that ability. And so I think with a focus on on health and wellness, there's there's a lot to be done there. And I think that really drawing in a crowd and making it enjoyable for people who are not interested and in the fitness for the sake of fitness, but have this other angle. Um, I think that music is critical.

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Yeah. Yeah.

Right. I mean, that that's like, let's just call it what it is. It's not that fun. I mean, it's it's uh for people who uh you know who have done it their whole lives, like yourself, uh, me, it's always I've always been, you know, sports and fitness has always been a part of my life. It's just it's something that you just do, right? It's like brushing your teeth, it's a task in your day that needs to get checked. Uh, but for a lot of people, that task is just overwhelmingly um difficult to get to because it's just not fun, you know. Like if you're starting a fitness journey, it's like you know, go in, maybe you take a class and you know you're not in shape and you do some squats, and the next day your knees hurt and it's harder to get back in. And next thing you know, it's like, uh, just screw it, right? Like this is it's too big of a hill to get over. Um music can definitely motivate people. And I think uh, you know, like you mentioned the Grateful Dead and Lizzo and these followings, like if we can make it somehow fun around music, uh that's that's a huge, that's a huge win in in so many ways.

Sure, completely completely agree. We think that that it's it's you know, music is a party, fitness it like the the tie-in there is is amazing. Um real ability to to change the the vibe of something.

I want to ask you too, just about the music industry overall. Um you know, maybe not specifically in relation to, and this is you know, wellness and and fitness, but it's undergone some changes over the last 20 years, right? I mean, date myself, I was buying um cassette tapes, right? And then then CDs, and then the iPod came out, and everything just changed, and it's it seems seemingly happened so fast, uh, really. And it's it just made the music rights between artists and labels, and you know, um how do you even price it anymore? How do you like how do you track it? And it just seems like a it's a very challenging thing to stay on top of because by the time you probably figure out a problem, a new problem pops up over here. It's like you know, whack-a-mole. Um, so you maybe get some insights. What's it because you've been how long have you been with Horner now? You said eight years? Is that right? Eight years. Yeah, so you've seen a lot of change there, but what are you seeing in the music industry overall? Like how how are you dealing with those challenges?

Yeah, so I mean, I sit at a team that is focused on innovation. So I think unlike what we really strive for is to embrace technology, things like AI, rather than be scared by some of the changes, right? I mean, the the changes that you were speaking of, where we went from CDs to essentially being like, wait, everything's digital and it's lime wire, and you know, to to not be on our back foot and instead say what one, how are people consuming and what is the technology and and not being scared of it, but saying, How do we use this? So I think that's that's been hugely important. I would say, in terms of how people are listening, there's a really there's this sense of really the interest in community aspect. Um and we're seeing a lot more community-driven rather than solo and and the desire to interact, right? I that hasn't come up as much in fitness yet, um, but the ability to uh have a lot of like the social component in a digital environment and a lot of the interaction there, we've seen a lot of that in music, and and I think there'll be more of that in fitness. I think also gaming, gaming and fitness, that overlay will continue to grow. Um and and essentially music's role there, big, and my team looking constantly at what is next, how are people doing things differently, and how to essentially meet them there.

Yeah, can you uh explain that a little bit more when you say community and the social aspect, like uh maybe through an example or something like that? What what do you mean by that?

Sure. Um, essentially, like uh community-based means having having more, like a whole group, essentially. So Discord or Twitch or something like that. Oh god. Um, having that that experience.

Yeah, got it.

I mean I okay.

No, I was gonna say I uh I was talking to people who like you know, Taylor Swift right now was on her tour. And when I think of community and social aspect, I think of somebody probably like one of the I mean if I if you're gonna ask me like Eric who's one of the best marketers in the world right now, I would say Taylor Swift, right? And and so how is she like is that using an example? How is she leveraging community and social aspects to really like have a powerhouse of a global brand?

I mean, she's she's an amazing example because she does have such a fan base. Um, I'm a Taylor Swift fan. Uh and and she does a really good job of and and maybe less in the new media space, but she does a really great job of having there's such a such a critical fan base, and they feel all very connected to each other. Um so the the shift we are seeing is is the fans wanting direct interaction too, um, with with artists and how to kind of allow for that um to be more of an experience where it's two ways and and where they interact with each other as well as uh you know with the artist specifically. Um so and then in and I mean in terms of the platforms to music is there's there's a shift towards the video elements. Um and um I would say I mean Taylor like on a Spotify she'll record a video of herself beforehand talking to her fans and and using all of uh the social sites to do essentially that um and there is a shift in listening to it being uh more with that base.

Yeah, interesting. Um and kind of turning back again to the to the wellness industry, with the innovations and the plans that you guys have to kind of change the landscape for licensing and how fitness brands and fitness professionals and um you know, even the mental wellness side of things, like you alluded to, like Calm. I know you guys have a contract with them, you work with them, which is uh an awesome app. It's probably helped so many people. Um but with all of this innovation and change coming down the pipe, who within our industry do you think should be the most excited? Like who's gonna benefit the most if you get that magic wand, you know, uh outcome that you're looking for?

I think it's all the all the smaller players in early stage. Um, it just makes things much. I mean, who's gonna benefit the most?

The consumer of all these.

I think ultimately, but but it really is for early stage companies. I think they will have a lot more ability to test with music and will be able to compete uh with a lot of the bigger guys because they will have a mean music and be a real differentiator and it can really make or break um the experience. So I do think as as as these solutions come out across uh the industry that the the smaller guys will will really benefit.

And that's good to hear. I mean, it really does make a difference. I mean, if I if I walk into a gym or I I enter into a fitness and wellness experience and I hear like, you know, a big artist, right? I hear a Katy Perry or I hear, you know, Lizzo, and I'm like, oh wow, this place must be legit, right? Because so many years have taught us like they they must be like they've got to pay a lot of money for that. And you know, if if we can help out the smaller ones, that would be great. And you know, I guess just to get more granular in it too, like uh using you know that example of of like that that brand or gym that has just a selectful few locations, like how would I engage in the process with Warner? Do I just go to your website and I click on me? Like, okay, but yeah, how what does that look like? Where where do you even start?

Yeah, and often it does there are a few consultants within the music and wellness space that that are actually very worth it because they can go around and connect you with all the right people who are doing this at each of the labels, essentially. Um because we, I mean, we do have incoming people use LinkedIn now for everything. Um, and we do have a fair bit of incoming. What we were doing proactively on my team during um we are still doing, we often reach out, we're doing outbound too. Um, so it we are not going to pick up all of the small gyms, um, but we are constantly we're big consumers of the digital fitness space ourselves and are doing a lot of outreach. Um, but essentially you could go to Warner Music's website and start emailing and it would eventually get back to us. But I would say there are there are some consultants in the in the industry that are worth, and the same, the same couple names get uh spoken about, um, but that are worth it to expedite connecting with the development players. But like I did during during um or during our outbound, feel free to give me a call, walk you through, you know, who to talk to and how it's done.

So yeah, it's it's just overwhelming, you know, and a bit intimidating. And uh, I think it's uh it's really exciting because it's it's such a critical part of it all. Um, I guess, you know, because you're you're a fitness consumer, right? Like you're you're into it. Um is there anything like when you look at from the technology coming into it or you know, brands that are upcoming, or the you know, uh correction that we're going through right now? But is there anything that gets you particularly excited about the fitness and wellness industry right now?

Um, I am I'm excited about the I I think fitness, excuse me, um, the wellness component, I think the sleep component. There's so much more being done um to expand the space to use essentially music and fitness to uh no longer just a less of a medical approach in terms of uh like pharmaceuticals, etc. So I think there's a lot of cool stuff being done there. There's a lot of cool stuff done, I see. I'm with you on AI. I think that there are ways to really um do things at scale that previously were not doable. Um so I would say those those are the things that that get me excited. I also, I mean, it's it's the everyday stuff. It's it's getting to more platforms of classes that I take as a consumer, um, that I would love to also have a digital component. So that would be in the more um exciting on in the immediate, and then in the long term, it's just all of this this expansion.

Yeah, awesome. Uh and Jessica, one of the last questions I always ask uh on the show of my guests is, you know, in the spirit of collaboration, like what do you need right now? Who would you like to hear from, you know, looking at partnerships or looking at uh new ventures or new parts or just yeah, anyone you'd want to talk to in particular?

Yeah, I mean basically anyone out there who is interested in digitally licensing music and has thought it was too much of a hurdle, we very much want to speak with them. We're here, we're we're happy to even as a uh educational component uh go that route. So yeah, um just it's it's an open door. So I I would love to speak with um many of your listeners.

Awesome. And where would you like people to go online? Um you want to go to LinkedIn, you want to go to the email website?

LinkedIn is perfect. Jessica Goldenberg at Warner Music Group.

Right on. Well, Jessica, uh, thank you for outreaching, coming and talking to us about this topic. It's yeah, I it's so important. It's often not on the radar as far as how critical it is to the experience for the consumer and how it really connects with them. Um, and how it helps build brands, let's be honest. I mean, if you can ride on the back of some of these big artists and their brand um and kind of bring your brand with them, um, that's not a bad thing, you know, uh, unless they end up saying something getting canceled. And then uh that's not so cool about that. Yeah, right. Right. Well, it's the world we live in. Anyway, Jessica, uh, it's an absolute pleasure having you on, and I appreciate taking some time out of your your Friday afternoon. And uh yeah, ladies and gentlemen, Jessica Goldenberg.

Thank you again. Great to speak with you.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This was your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.