Helaine Knapp - CityRow & The Recalibration of Consumer Demands

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. Plain Nap. Welcome to the Future of Fitness.

Thanks for having me, Eric. Happy to be here.

Very excited. I you have great energy. You're very honest. You have a great business going on. I think there's a lot of off, you know, just a lot of insights that our audience is going to gather from you as a person, as well as City Row, you know, what you guys are doing and then the presence you had and why you started it. So uh I'm trying to think who I can shout out to who got us connected. It might have been Stefan Silner. Uh certainly. Probably. Yeah, probably the most connected man of fitness. Um so thank you, Stefan, for getting us introduced and uh very, very excited to have you here. So welcome aboard. And like always, Helene, let's start with uh your story. How'd you get to be the founder of City Row?

Awesome. Well, thank you again for having me. Happy to share the City Row story and then get it get into some industry work. Um, so I guess the the founding City Row story is really interesting. Um, full disclosure, not a former rower, never row a day in my life. My story is much chubby kid growing up, entered the world of working in New York City after going to Big Ten College out in Ann Arbor, and found myself falling in love with working out and eating healthy. And then as my career started to grow and the demands of that career started to grow, I really started hooking myself into boutique fitness as a way to hold myself accountable. And also it was quite social. So no longer did I have to pick between burgers and beers after work. I could do a spin class and sushi. And it was just this unbelievable shift in my mentality that I became hungry for it. And it was a great part of my life. Um, but unfortunately, after a couple of years of doing this kind of aggressively, Eric, like I'm not gonna pretend. Like I was doing a lot of these uh these spin classes or boot camp classes or you name it, it was just so fun. And I loved that I was also in my mind, I really thought that I was taking good care of my body by working out all the time. And unfortunately, after doing this for a couple of years, I found myself with a really bad lower back injury. And it wasn't one incident, wasn't one moment where something, you know, hurt. It was over time. And I uncovered that I had three hernited discs in my lower back, which is, you know, unfortunately something that prevails a lot of people. But my doctor was like, okay, this is actually quite serious. You need to stop what you're doing and you need to do a low impact workout. That was a real turning point for me, Eric, because again, I thought that I was doing everything right. And so it kind of blew up in my face that, oh my God, like, why was I not doing everything right? What was wrong with this formula for success that I was like really bought into? And when I uncovered it, you know, I was doing a lot of movement, but not all movements created equal. I was aggressively dancing on a spin bike with no core strength. And I was box jumping on Tuesdays very aggressively after sitting at a desk for 10 hours. And so I saw this opportunity to introduce something new to the market that for me was everything that I needed. And I wanted something, I wanted cardio. I wanted strength training. I learned how important it was to lift weights, especially for women. Um, but I also wanted it to have a positive effect on my mobility. Learned how important mobility was and flexibility and stretch. And so I really wanted these core five tenants in a workout. And I didn't want to sacrifice cardio for flexibility or strength through mobility. And so that was my holy grail. I was like, I want it all, and I wanted in as short of a you know, 20 or 30 minutes. And so when I kind of re-engineered what that looked like, I really needed a piece of cardio equipment that was gonna give you a lot of bang for your buck and also be this low impact thing. And, you know, spoiler alert, that was the rower. And I didn't want it to be the rower, Eric, because when I thought of rowing, when I first heard how good it was for you, I thought of a Winklevoss twin. And no offense, but like I thought of a CrossFit dude. Like I couldn't picture women. I couldn't picture me and my friends rowing 10 years ago. But I had this really deep belief that it could be the vehicle and could be a cornerstone for this core five that I was looking for. And so I tapped the rower, actually tapped the water rower because I was like, it's pretty. And I made it the cornerstone for this HIC class that was back and forth in the rower and strength training, incorporated mobility and flexibility and stretching. And we launched as a brick and mortar business in in 2014. So that was the idea and the inception, and that's how we got started.

I got I want to go back on that story a little bit. So when you said you couldn't envision you and your friends on a rower, what why not? Like what was what was it about the rower? Is it just something you never thought of before? Was it just like physically you couldn't envision yourself on it? Or was it the the type of the type of workout it was? What was it?

It was just unfamiliar. People, and myself included, most people grow up, grow up running and riding bikes. And even if you go to a gym, like I don't know, even an elliptical was something that looked very familiar to me. But I had never ever experienced the rower before. It just wasn't mainstream. And so that's why I thought of Winkleboss twins and CrossFit dunes. And at the same time, though, I was like, wow, it really is this unsung hero that I understand why it hasn't been mainstream, but saw an opportunity to bring it there.

Yeah, well, I feel like it's made a big comeback. You know, I I I'm trying to think when I first uh I too herniated to discs about twelve years ago. Um it's an unpleasant process. Uh and I think, you know, most of the medical profession, to no fault of their own, you know, they just kind of give you three options, right? It's like, well, you can do nothing and just live with it. Uh maybe you can get some injections and do some physical therapy, right? Or you know, you get surgery. And I was told I would never, you know, weightlift ever again, and that would have just never didn't turn out to be true. Um but I think the key is, you know, when going through injuries like that, you just gotta stay active and you gotta stay moving. Um that's you know, everyone wants you to kind of stop. So anyway, I want to go back to your story again. The uh you started your first brick and mortar, when and where exactly.

From that era. I mean, man, you have to be naive to do that. It was a it was a great, great, great moment. Some of my fondest, fondest memories over our past eight and a half years are from that 15th floor office building, and we really built the brand there. You know, you talk about how, you know, it's hard to believe that rowing wasn't that mainstream eight years ago. I like to think that we were a part of that trend. Like, you know, we were really, really popular, I would say, in the media for making rowing sexy and for making it mainstream and for making it appeal to a different audience. It's also like a little before Orange Theory was really taking over, where a lot of people are introduced to rowing, which is incredible. Um, so we did a lot on that 15th floor office building. We launched it with basically no marketing. I was like, I want to make sure that the product that we're building really works. And that's been the cornerstone for how we think about City Row is that at the end of the day, like we're just a really smart program. And we've put tools around it to make it fun and cool and you know, move quickly with great instructors. And then we've, you know, made it accessible in many different ways. But at the core of who we are, we're a really fucking good workout. And so that's that's how this whole company was started. And, you know, quickly we were doing well in the first studio, opened a couple more. We're three women that started the business. Myself, my co-founder Ashley, we met at a tech company, um, taking a lot of these classes together after work. And then Annie Mulgrew, who's our VP and founding instructor. Annie and I actually studied abroad together in college, but I don't think any of those stories are appropriate for this podcast. Um, and we we reconnected when I was looking to start this. And I think um, yeah, it's incredible that we're all still together to this day, continuing to innovate and think about how to take the company forward. So, yeah, started as a brick and mortar business, opened a couple locations um after the first. And then it was really pivotal, I would say, in 2016, where I took a step back and I was like, how do I want to grow this company? You know, this standard was hey, do a couple more corporate stores, right? That was kind of the initial idea, but I had some other plans, Eric.

Yeah. So so walk through those plans. I mean, you had 2014 and 2016, you were getting proof of concept, right? In the in the brick and mortar. And then the natural progression would be, you know, open 10 more, you know, really start the franchising process, maybe get some capital and fusion, and then just go for it. Just sell, sell franchises, right? But you you took some, you you looked at it a little bit differently. So walk us through that thought process and and where that's led to you, where that's led you now.

So you're spot on. I remember people saying, like, in the early days, before I even opened the first location, you know, what's the plan here, right? The net plan was never to have one location to have it be profitable. Like I've been a part of tech companies and like I've got some pretty grandiose plans. And so in the beginning, I was like, well, let's see, right? But I don't see why we couldn't be the next whole cycle and do a lot of corporate stores. And so that was the natural trajectory was like, okay, let's just keep raising some more money and opening more locations to your point. These things are profitable. I had so I actually had an LOI out for a space in Boston and also DC to test out other markets outside of New York. But I was really kind of struggling with how I was gonna divide and conquer my team to go and open across multiple cities. And so, you know, I'd had people ask me to franchise for years. I had a folder in my Gmail, it was orange. And I was just like didn't respond to any of them when they were like, I want to bring this here and like San Diego, Vancouver, like Dallas. And I was like, no, because I didn't really know anything about franchising at the time. And so, you know, right before we decided to pull the trigger on these corporate locations, I thought to myself, let me at least explore what franchising is and see if it's something that we should at least consider. And, you know, ultimately, um ultimately met an amazing partner that we were starting to have conversations with. We ended up partnering with them. Um, but it was really in part because I also saw some really early indicators coming out of digital connected at home fitness. Mostly I just I was I've been watching Peloton. And I really, really couldn't stop thinking about the fact that we were really uniquely positioned to have a big presence there. And the reason that I thought we were uniquely positioned and had like this unfair advantage was because one, my co-founder and I met in a tech company, right? We are not fitness professionals, and we're not pretending to be. I've never taught a class. That would be horrific. I'd be very bad at it. Um, so we we we understand technology and how to build technology, but I would say even more so than that, like we just knew that our modality of rowing and strength training in this HIIT class was gonna translate into a 20 or 30 minute workout, which the hypothesis was, and you know, data showed that that was more of like the appetite for the at home consumer. And so it was that combined with the fact that obviously a rower stands up beautifully in the corner of the room with no added equipment. And that at the end of the day, like we want to go meet the customer where they are. I wasn't trying to just kind of build in the channels that we were already familiar with as a brand. And so I was, I knew we were gonna bet on this digital connected at-home experience, and also wanted to put put the right retail strategy in place that was gonna enable us to do it all. And so I ended up partnering with a franchise company, ends up taking some seed capital from our manufacturer, and we were we were an omnichannel brand in 2016.

And you said uh you want to meet the customer where they are. Who who is City Rose customer? If you had to just paint us a picture.

I would say all fitness in general, SKU's a little bit female. Um, we take a couple more guys than I ever thought we would, but at the end of the day, we're going after the 30 to 50 year old female. Um, and I ideally they're they're actually looking for a slightly better workout. And what that means is that um they've probably dabbled in some things before. Um, we do welcome people that this is like their first experience, but City Row is a really tap-in workout. And what I mean by that is that you have to actually want to be there, right? You can't just like sit in a room, spin your legs around in a dark room and like sweat because the heat's on. Um, you have to really tap into the experience and pay attention. And so I would say we we actually will kind of keep people a lot longer who are, you know, even uh, you know, I would say 30s, 40s, 50s for us. Um we'll we'll take the 20-year-olds and the snackers, but we'll keep people who are a little bit more intentional about why they're here.

And you so you guys went omni-channel, right? And that is a that is a the buzzword of 2022, I think, is is is omnichannel. And I I want to get because you guys are actually doing it. I think a lot of people say it, and you know, it's like fodder for you know panels and things like that of what it means to be omnichannel, but you guys are actually doing it. So I guess when you when we talk about this thing omnichannel, we we first have to kind of define it. Um so how would you how would you define omni-channel? And then um, you know, after that, step two of that question is how are you, what does omnichannel mean to City Row?

So I think that the the Webster dictionary version means like multiple channels of consumer, you know, consumption or sales, right? For us, it means like very distinct ways to connect with the consumer and welcome them into the ecosystem of City Row. And so for us, what it means is that we're not just having brick and mortar, we're not just having a connected rower, we're not we don't just have an app. We have all three of them. And what that means for our business is that one, you can come into a studio, you can have an entry point for a single class, you can join us for one of our memberships. If you have access to a rower, and this is like probably one of the things that people don't yet know about us, is that we have an app that actually is compatible with any rower that you have access to, which is really cool. If you have a gym in your building or you belong to one and there's any rower there, you can actually take a city row class. And then the last piece is if you know, we do sell hardware. And so you can, you know, transact and purchase one of our two rowers that we have. And so by having these multiple entry points to meet the customer where they already are, to us, that that's what omnichannel means. And then the kind of the layer up from that is okay, great. How do we welcome you in at the place that you already are and then grow with you as your fitness maturity continues to evolve? Whether that means from being a studio consumer to an at-home consumer or an at-home consumer into a studio or into the app, we want to create a lot of opportunities for you to continue to engage.

Right on. And if you looked at if you looked at the fitness industry overall, not just specifically in the the vertical of rowing, um, who else would you think Helene is is doing omnichannel well?

I think we're doing it really well. Um there's a couple that I I think um we just saw an announcement. Uh, I think Hypost just made a play for both a connected fitness company as well as some hardware, which I'm really interested to see more about. Um I think SoulCycle's tried. Equinox has tried. Um, they're really, really big. So I can understand that there's probably some big challenges there. You know, SoulCycle did start very brick and mortar, and then they have a really great digital experience. I think COVID obviously hit them pretty hard on the on the retail side of things, but I think that they're really trying. Um I don't see a ton of native digital brands having that physical presence, right? Peloton doesn't have it. Their physical presence is a is a showroom. Um, and then I think there's a lot of inherently brick and mortar businesses that are trying very hard to create that digital. But it is really hard to do both. And I'm saying that from experience. They are they are very different core competencies. And so I think we have an unfair advantage building both from the start and having learnings. It takes a little bit longer to do both really well, but I wouldn't trade our strategy for the world.

Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's an interesting strategy that you guys picked given that you had no idea a pandemic was coming, right? And over the last two years, uh, you know, the flexibility that you guys have built in within your business and the ability to adapt was already there. It wasn't like I would imagine there wasn't a lot of pivoting. So I guess when you guys went through the last two years, and um not that we need to talk about the pandemic over and over again, but I'm just curious because it's unique for you guys. Like how how if trying to have to structure this question carefully, if if you were just one of those modalities, if you were just brick and mortar, right? Um or what given what you guys have now as a truly on me channel, you know, how how do you think your navigating those last two years has been different than somebody who um you know may just not have had uh too many options?

I'm really not sure we would have been here if we hadn't had the had already launched our digital business, if I'm being honest with you. We um we had opened seven franchisees, franchises in the six months before COVID hit. And so we were we were really gutted. Our franchises were really gutted. It was a really, really hard time. Our New York City studios were shut down with a big presence in New York City. And so I'm not sure we would have survived. I'd like to think that I would have figured out a solution. Pretty, pretty notorious for that. Um, but it really the digital arm of the business allowed us to not only drive an area of the business where consumer demand was growing, but also think about how we could leverage that to support our studios. So think about you know free access to the app while they were closed. How do we do like digital classes if an instructor can't make it? And so we really kind of brought the team together and we also shifted resources, right? We closed our studios, we shifted some of our studio staff into customer service. It was really just a re-engineering of resources depending on where the customer is. And I think that that is something that's kept us really nimble and really, you know, smart and being able to like hit the right lever where the customer is. And I would say on the flip side, Eric, like now we're seeing a recalibration in demand for connected fitness, right? This is the whole Peloton debacle. And, you know, outside of their, you know, management missteps, let's say, in kind of their projections and you know, supply chain missteps across the board, part of it is that we pulled forward a lot of demand over the past two years. We reached up and pulled people forward into buying connected fitness that maybe weren't wouldn't have been ready for a couple of years. And so now we have to let that demand and that funnel for demand build back up. And while that's happening, we're seeing a resurgence into studios, into working out, but it's not an exact flip-flop, right? And so now we're actually thinking, okay, well, where can we go in? And for us, that is meeting people in studios for experiences because we're all hungry for them. And it's also meeting people in a slightly lower price point, entry point, which is for us is our is our app only strategy. And then we'll continue to hit on rower sales in the right way, but let's just call it spade a spade, right? All these connected fitness brands have to recalibrate for demand and feel really lucky that we have some other levers that we can pull as a as a business.

That that's a really articulate way to put it is a recalibration of consumer demand. I I've been trying to put a phrase to that, so you just did it for me. Thank you. Um that may be a title of this this uh this podcast here. You know, and and it makes total sense, right? We had this huge pendulum swing towards connected home and fitness because of course it made sense. People were stuck at home. But now, like as you mentioned, like there is a huge resurgence to the in-person experience, and people want that. Yet a piece of them is like, well, you know, I kind of liked having that at home option too. I want it all, right? I want it all. I want to be able to go in person. I want to be able to, you know, do an occasional workout. I mean, I look at myself as an example. Like, I have now a home gym, right? Uh I have still have my gym membership, but I still like to be outdoors and I, you know. My wife does yoga, you know, virtually occasionally. Like there's just all these different options now, and I feel like everyone's kind of figuring out their own formula of how they want to move forward. So, I mean, any insights or uh if you're gonna pull out your your crystal ball, you know, what what do you think the next few years are gonna look like with that recalibration starts to settle? People age at different speeds, and the date on your license may not represent your inner biological age at all. If you're looking for ways to extend your health span and slow down the aging process, the keys to health and longevity run in your blood. That's why Insight Tracker provides you with a personalized plan to boost your metabolism, reduce stress, improve sleep, and optimize your health for the long haul. Created by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics, Insight Tracker analyzes your blood, DNA, and fitness tracking data to identify where you're optimized, and more importantly, where you're not. You'll get a daily action plan with personalized guidance on the right exercise, nutrition, and supplementation for your body. Add interage 2.0 to any plan for definitive calculation of your true biological age to see how you're aging from the inside out. I was proud to find out I'm a few years younger than I thought I was. For a limited time, you can get 20% off the entire Inside Tracker store. Just go to inside tracker.com forward slash future to check it out, learn more, and get your own. It's insightracker.com forward slash future. On to the show.

I mean, you and I can probably spend a whole other podcast talking about things we've been into and out of over the past decade. And I think the reason for that is that we have to continue to keep things new and exciting and fresh. We also get smarter about how we want to move our bodies. Also, our bodies change and need different things as we grow up, right? Women's bodies need different things over time, so do men's bodies. And so we need to have a lot of options. And we also are going to see a continuation of the overall fitness and wellness category continuing to boom. And I think it's hard to lose, it's hard, it's actually easy to lose sight of that in the day-to-day when you're like, oh, membership numbers, connected numbers, like sales over here. But on average, Americans gain 29 pounds during COVID. That's terrifying. Um, I think we also learned during COVID that America's pretty unhealthy. And more and more data that comes out, everything points to move. Everything points to move your body, right? And you and I could debate what it means to move your body and what the best ways are. I'm gonna tell you at City Row. But um, I also believe in rest days and mobility and walking. Um, but more and more people are gonna continue to realize that there are infinite benefits to movement. And it might start that they're moving two or three days a week, and it might start with walking. But a lot of people are gonna start to realize okay, I gotta get more than three days in. How can I do it? And that's where that's where at-home fitness really comes into play. Either you can't get to the gym or you want to add the extra days. And so I think that we're gonna see continued explosive growth across in-person experiences. And while we're recalibrating on digital, that growth is gonna continue significantly as more Americans move for more minutes in their weeks and their lives.

I like the optimistic view on that. I hope, I hope it's true. It's it it has the last few years have shown a lot of light on different things within our our uh our society here in the United States, and it isn't healthy. Um at least I guess the awareness has been brought to it in a very harsh way. Uh so that's just something we, you know, first step is awareness, right? And you deal with it. You you uh you dovetailed actually pretty nicely into something that I want to touch with you on because you've been putting a lot of thought into it, and that is this yeah, I guess fitness industry or fitness maturity curve, as you dubbed it. Um explain to us what what that thought process is, why it provides you with a lot of energy and optimism moving forward in your entrepreneurial career and and what that means for our industry.

Yeah, so the way I look at our industry is that one, you know, it's it's pretty big, but it starts with a pretty big top of the funnel of people that are early on in their movement. And that can mean someone who's, you know, in their 40s and 50s and are for the first time in their lives realizing how important it is to move. And they're gonna start somewhere. And it could mean someone in their teens who's been moving forever and just continuing to figure that out. Wherever you enter and start with fitness, right? Like I first joined a gym with my friends in like a summer between college, and then I joined a ballet's total fitness in college. And so we all, we all have our like early stories, right? And I I might the optimism in me likes to think that kids are learning about it a lot earlier in life. But as you, as you grow up, as you learn more, as your life changes, as your schedule changes, like you're you're gonna constantly be moving through the funnel. And what I mean by that is, you know, so many people are gonna start with what's familiar to them, which is why spinning is such the gateway fitness drug, right? Because everyone knows how to get a bike. How accessible is that? And so is walking and so is running. We grow up doing that. And so that is really top of the funnel in a lot of ways, is like what's accessible to me, what's familiar, right? Because this is a whole new world that is kind of scary. And then as we get smarter and as we like, okay, you know, I actually need to do some weights, or actually I want to do a boutique fitness class because I'm getting bored, right? You start to kind of move your way through different experiences. And ultimately, I like to think the optimist in me, getting to the point of like, how can I fit this into my life in an easier way? And at the end of that, the bottom of the funnel is really people who know they have to move every day or five days a week. And that can look very different for everyone. Um, but at that bottom of the maturity curve, digital fitness plays a really big piece of it because on that day, man, I really can't get to the gym today. I want to, but I'm gonna do this instead in 20 minutes at home. And so that's kind of how I look at the overall like funnel and fitness maturity, and we go through it over life, and not everyone gets to the bottom. Some people do really well at different pieces of it. Um, but we have to acknowledge that there's different things for different people. And at the end of the day, I like to really hope that a lot of people are gonna figure out how to find movement that works for them.

Yeah, it's it's a really interesting thought. And when you take a step back, I mean, most people traditionally who get into the fitness industry probably were, I don't know, have been had fitness in their life most of the time, right? Like sports or athletics or just been in the gym a lot. And it's really easy to to miss the point that fitness for a lot of people is a big hurdle to get started. And there's a lot of, you know, one of the things we don't talk about, and Jim Kroll was on the show and he uh we talked about this last week. The emotional aspect of fitness like there's a lot to it. And your experience, you know, getting into it and how emotional it was to keep moving and then finding rowing, that that's that's a story that you can genuinely like you understand those steps really well, right? That you can now, you know, in your market research or how you guys are playing, how you guys gain new clients and build your brand, you can leverage that really well. A lot of fitness people don't actually have that. Like, well, I've it's just you know, I just work out, it's just what I do, it's just part of my life. That's not it for everybody. And there's a huge emotional component to getting over that too. So when you look at this, this you know, this graph or this visual that you have in your mind of of this curve, how much do you think emotion plays a role in how people interact with their their fitness and health?

I think it's I think it's really big. And I think you know, the flip side of connected fitness that we don't talk about all that much is that it really allows it to be private, if you want it to be, right? Fitness can be very intimidating for a lot of people, right? You got people that have literally never moved and are really self-conscious about it. You have people that maybe used to be in really fantastic shape and aren't in their minds anymore. And so at home fitness allows people to do it in private, you know, curtains closed. And we talk a lot about the benefits of being with other people and the motivation you're gonna push yourself further. I always get a better split time in class with people than I am at home 100% of the time. Like I didn't know I could rode a 132. Um, but at home fitness allows people to do it really comfortably. And so I think that that is a really positive side of connected fitness that we don't talk about a whole lot because it's scary. It's also there's a lot of energy around if you're not doing it, right? Or I missed a day, there's a lot of shame around it. So I do think that emotion plays a huge role in it. And I hope that we're getting a little bit healthier from a mental perspective in the industry in terms of like rest days, forgiveness, like let's not destroy our bodies. Um, so I think that we're I think we are seeing some, not to overuse my favorite word, I think we are seeing some recalibration away from the workouts that we're just like, we're gonna kill you, right? Give me a hundred burpees. And I like to think that we're moving away from those things and thinking more intentionally about movement. But on the whole, I think it's incredibly emotional. And I mean, it can also be really, really good for you, right? Emotionally, right? Who doesn't leave with those indoor friends, in the words of Al Woods?

Yeah, yeah, it's true. And as I kind of go through that journey myself, I mean, I'm 45 now and I train for much different reasons than I did at 35. And um, you know, 35, I was middle of my CrossFit career, just just just hammering Hunter Burpee guy, right? That was me. Just how much weird the intensity. Uh and you know, I can't say I didn't get injured, but I think um, you know, nowadays I train because I want to be efficient, to your point, right? I want to get in the workout that I need. I want to feel I am mentally am a better person and emotionally a better person when I work out. I'm more effective at my job, right? So that that wasn't something I thought about 10 years ago. And I think that's a really important thing as people kind of mature through that as well. And you know, anecdotally, I I think it's pretty interesting in what you said. Um I'm in a beta group for RPM trainings, uh Adam uh project, which is essentially it's I don't know, I'm just gonna call it this, but it's it's CrossFit, it's a virtual community for CrossFit, right? And people can do it at home and all that. And I was thinking, like, gosh, you know, is this gonna lead to without the coaching in person, is it gonna lead to, you know, maybe more injuries because people aren't doing movements correct. But I I started thinking about it, I'm like, actually, I bet this is gonna be much safer because to your point, people don't feel the pressure of a group, right? They're going to, if they're gonna do it at home, they're probably gonna do it with lightweight. They're not gonna, you know, the ego isn't gonna come and play as much. So there's benefits, you know, to both sides of it of like, okay, in person, in a group versus at home. I think there's both things. I mean, people hopefully people don't get out people, hopefully people get out of their home. Right. I think that's really important. But I think there's a lot of advantages to that if they just you know do it the right way and stay consistent and then we remove that friction, and that's ultimately what we want to do is just remove friction for people to get into exercising more efficiently. So um, yeah, it's it's really fascinating. The rowing vertical itself is getting a lot of attention. I mean, you you guys have found yourself in an interesting spot in so many different ways. Um why why over the last I would say, and maybe it's just my perspective and the information that gets you know put in front of me, but it sure does seem like the rowing vertical is hot. There's a lot going on. It's competitive, it's um investor money is coming in. Uh it's just there's more eyeballs on it, and it's just this little piece of equipment. It's just a rowing machine, right? With so many different variations now. So, what what is it about the rowing industry, in your opinion, that makes it so so interesting right now?

One, I like to think that we had a pretty big hand in building the uh the mainstream nature of a rowing machine. I think Orange Theory did a really good job as well. So did CrossFit and introducing people to it. Because it really, like I said earlier, most people do not grow up rowing. And if you do grow up rowing, you probably never want to row again, from my experience with people who actually rode on the water. And all the credit to you guys. So I think that there's there's a couple of reasons that we're, you know, is starting to come into general awareness. I like to think that we had a hand in it, as I said. But then I think that the real reason, Eric, is we talked about this, like, there's more and more education and science and learning coming into movement. And not all movement is created equal. And so you say that, like, you know, your movement has changed a lot in the past 10 years. Well, I think more and more people are coming across that. They can't, you know, they they might have become, you know, fitness nuts over the past 20 years. And oh my God, I used to be able to do five miles a day for my whole life, and hey, my knees hurt. Right. And so the reason that rowing just continues to win and why it's at the forefront right now as a new modality is because people are continuing to realize how truly insanely good it is for you. And we're starting to uncover that not all movement is created equal. So, part of that same trend, how do we get smarter and more intentional with movement, just like we're getting smarter and more intentional for what we put in our bodies, right? A lot of people dropping sugar, a lot of people trying to be a little a little planned forward in whatever works for you. And moving your body in a smart way is the new fueling your body in a smart way. And so if we want to be able to be active and fit for our whole lives, we have to be a little bit more intentional with our joint credits. And that's why rowing continues to win. And on top of it, it torches calories and it's total body. And so you're able to get a lot of bang for your buck with it. We've actually amplified that with our HIT classes as well. But that's why it's on the forefront. I think we're still in early days, though, because we're talking about it being at the forefront in like a couple of cool connected fitness modalities, but it's still making its way up the funnel a little bit into people that are a little bit earlier in their fitness journey.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's a great outlook on it. And I agree. Uh, I like joint credits. Did you just make that up?

I talk about it all the time. We only have a certain amount of credits that we can just like hit on our knees and our ankles.

Yeah. No, I do I hey, I get it. Like I do, like my knees, uh, it's one of the things I really have to pay attention to nowadays, especially when they're not skiing. Um I want to touch on this this topic because I know it's uh probably inspirational or at least educational for a lot of people too, is that your you and your whole your leadership team are female entrepreneurs within an industry that has been typically male for the last 40, 50 years, right? And they're we're seeing some you know significant changes, and especially um, you know, in the investment side of the industry and you know how many com how many you know VCs or you know traditional investment groups are investing into female entrepreneurs within the vertical. Um give us give us some insights, maybe uh you know what your experience has been and what message you have for other female entrepreneurs in the space right now.

Women still only see two percent of all funding. It's crazy. Every time I have an ad, I'm really like, I don't understand, I don't believe it. Um because you know, we're still we're still new at this. We kind of still just got the right to vote. So there's a lot of work to be done in the equality on the fundraising side of things. I think I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't hard. Um, but I also kind of only realized it when I started fundraising, if I'm being really vulnerable and honest with you, because I was in all these other industries where it was very egalitarian. I was, you know, fortunate, like I was always kind of top of my group in terms of performance and recognition. It wasn't until I entered the fundraising world. And it's not just that, you know, women only see 2% of funding and we have to do a better job there. Part of it is also that most of the people on the other side of the table that are writing the checks are men. And that's what's gonna really need to change in order to really balance out the funding. Like, for instance, like City Row is first and foremost, like for women. Yes, we welcome a lot of men in. They love it, it's very athletic, but you know, it's really interesting to me that most of our cap table is men. They get it, they're amazing, right? All of my mentors in life are like a lot of them really incredible men. Um, but we have a lot of work to do. And it's gonna start by putting a lot more women on the other side of the check writing table, and we're making strides. I like to think and I like to hope every year.

Yeah, great message. And I I think everything, I mean, do you feel things are changing? Do you feel a shift? And every people I'm I'm watching her like rub her head really hard as she thinks about this answer. So uh just give people context.

I am I'm a glass half-full kind of gal, Eric. And so I think I um I really want to say yes here. I think we're we're still working on it. It's it's it's really hard because the whole fundamentals of the fundraising process um inherently has some challenges just for women and particularly like very feminine women. Um, and so there are some fundamental challenges, but what I find very encouraging is the awareness that's being brought to this more and more every year, and more and more funds are having you know mandates for it. You know what's really gonna make a difference, Eric, is when more and more data comes out that talks about you know performance over time. And I think I'm excited to continue to watch the data trends. Um, so hopefully we get to 4%, then 8%, then 12%, and then we just keep on bringing this to equality.

Right on, right on. Yeah, data tells a story. So what do you uh, you know, I asked this question in collaboration, right? What uh what do you need right now? When you look at City Row, what are some of the challenges that you're facing? What do you guys need right now from our community here?

Well, on your last, on your last point, Eric, always looking for investors that want to be part of this company moving forward. Um, the right ones who believe in Omnichannel, right? Which is so unique and different in the space. We're totally disrupting what was inherently either brick and mortar or digital. Um, so always welcome an opportunity to great investors. We have a ton of roles open at City Row. So we've got a couple great hires which you can take a look at what's open on LinkedIn. Um, always looking for fans of the brand. So find us on find us on Instagram, find us on Twitter, download our app. We have a free month that you can just check it out and try. If you've access to a rower, try one of our R12 rowing style classes, or just a Pilates class or a yoga class, or please take a mobility class. Um, so take a look. And I'm always available for you know, thoughts, feedback. I'm just at Helene on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Right on, right on. Well, Helene, thank you for coming on. Uh, it's been really interesting. And I the way you framed a lot of the things I've been thinking about was actually really valuable to me, the recalibration of the consumer experience and um, you know, uh your take on the the evolution of the fitness curve and the funnel and how people get into fitness and what it means for you know kind of every stage or every um every individual. So it's been it's been fascinating. And I like what you're doing. I think you guys are doing great stuff. I have tried the uh I've used a couple workouts, I've done a couple workouts through the app, which was great. You know, I just set it up on my rower, logged in, it synced with everything, and I was able to get you know that experience and I didn't have to think. I didn't have to come up with a workout, I just did it. And it was it was good. It was a great 30-minute workout, which was what I needed at the time. So uh keep up the great work. Um, yeah, yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. And ladies and gentlemen, clean now.

Thanks, Eric. Thank you.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This was your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.