Emma Barry: Good Soul Hunting & The Advancement of Fitness Industry Talent

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over two years and running. It is 2021, and I am your host, Eric Malzone. I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. When you do what you love, running, racing, or simply enjoying the great outdoors, you want to do it for life. Insight Tracker can help. Insight Tracker was founded in 2009 by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics. Using their patented algorithm, Insight Tracker analyzes your body's data to provide you with a clear picture of what's going on inside you while offering highly personalized, science-backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes. Okay, time for straight talk. It's time that each single one of us takes responsibility for our own health. Personally, given the results of my Insight Tracker DNA and blood tests, I now have a clear and simple game plan to lower my cholesterol and stave off my family's genetic history of heart disease. The best part is that the plan doesn't include any kind of pharmaceuticals, just personalized nutrition and natural supplementation. Possibly my favorite feature of Insight Tracker is the inner age score, a singular metric that shows me how my biological age compares to my chronological age. They just gamify longevity. It's crazy cool. For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire Insight Tracker store. Just go to InsightTracker.com forward slash future. But wait, there is more. If you're a coach, trainer, registered dietitian, or any other health and wellness practitioner, you can now leverage Inside Tracker services to help your clients perform better than they ever have. And you can offer them discounts while you earn revenue. InsightTracker Pro is your gateway to offering your clients Insight Tracker, a science-backed, ultra-personalized performance platform trusted by elite athletes and top coaches. Just go to insight tracker.com forward slash future to get more information and enjoy deep, deep discounts. That is insight tracker.com forward slash future. This episode of the Future of Fitness is brought to you by our good friends at the Brand X Method. Kids deserve our best. Period. Full stop. Brand X has dedicated themselves to doing what is best for kids for over two decades. Here's the facts. All major pediatric organizations agree that youth strength and conditioning and fitness programs must be specifically designed for children and coached by those specifically educated in working with children. This seems like a no-brainer. Successful programs come from educated coaches who have all the tools to best serve the youth. Brand X offers unequaled ongoing support through ever-growing relative content delivered monthly, plus the mountains of information leveraging their 20 plus years of experience. As the developers of the original Kids Functional Fitness Program and certification with over 100 state and national record holders and recognize the world's leaders in youth fitness, Brand X not only offers the fully digital, take it-your-own pace, professional youth coaches certification, but has recently added to their suite of custom education products to best serve educators and parents as well. Because kids deserve our best. So whether you are a gym owner, coach, educator, parent, or simply anyone who cares for the future of our children, Brand X is offering a 20% discount on all digital education products for a limited time. Go visit thebrandxmethod.com forward slash future to get your code today. Again, that is the brand XMethod.com forward slash future and claim your code. I am your host, Eric Malzone. And once again, welcome to the Future of Fitness. Boom, we are live. Emma Berry, welcome to the Future of Fitness.

I am so excited to be here. You're a legend. Thanks for having me.

Oh, you're a legend. Thank you for coming on. I uh yeah, I've been, you know, known of you for a while. I've really kind of intently started following your content um over the past few months. And uh, you know, I think I saw us, we were both invited to be on the Glowfox panel as well. So I'm like, you know, it's about time. Let me get let me get Emma on the show. And uh maybe, maybe we're worthy of her presence now. So uh it's it's great to have you. I mean, there's so many uh God, just you and I were talking before recording and so many potential topics for this 40-minute interview. Um, there's just a lot, but we'll we'll see where it goes. I have some good ideas of things I want to talk about, especially the the talent side of the fitness industry is really interesting right now. But as always, Emma, give us your backstory. How did you get to where you are today? Uh, how'd you become Emma Berry?

Great. So I'm standing here in my office slash garage, slash laundry, slash like everyone else, slash gym. Uh I'm an ally, I'm a Kiwi, clearly, which is why many of you won't understand me. Um, I used to commute to Europe, UK a lot. Um, haven't been many places in the last 15 months. Um, so I've got a life, uh wonderful, rich history in group fitness primarily. So I had uh a couple of decades with uh Les Mills, one of the founding members there, and got to see the world and of course, you know, play my small part in creating the juggernaut that it is today, taking group fitness content to the world and many, many different platforms. So that was that. And then uh we won green cards actually about seven years ago. And um, I've just always loved the thought of, you know, maybe letting go the side of the swimming pool and just seeing if I can sink or whether we can actually make a fist of it over here. So we decided to come to the US, been here seven years now, and was very fortunate to get picked up by Equinox uh sort of in a year uh here and worked a few years for that fabulous brand and just um you know, just seeing Equinox in action and contributing in the group fitness programming side. We had a team, there was sort of 10 to 20 of us based across both coasts uh in Miami, and you know, had it had great stuff there, and then, you know, sort of got into that a little bit. And then I thought, goodness, um, I started getting asked to talk around the world a little bit. And I thought, oh goodness, I better go and do this, you know, consultancy advisory thing before I get too old and tired. And uh that's sort of been the last few years. And then uh pretty much a year ago, I joined up with some uh wonderful past colleagues, high-performing past colleagues that I adored working with. And they had started a recruitment firm, essentially an executive search firm. And I got actually really interested because I spent, as I'm sure you do, half your life hooking these people up with those people, introducing these people to that business. And I thought, you know what, I should probably just get paid for this. So we um we launched Good Soul Hunting, which is um executive search for the fit tech, well tech, and health tech industry. And we were actually going to launch last year, not just because of the pandemic. So it just sped up our marketing effort. We we hooked up with some other friends that we knew from Lesmill's days, and they helped us with the marketing. And we've enjoyed quite a good year, actually. So now my work life is kind of divided into good soul hunting, where we place people primarily in the US. So 80% of our business is here, 20% is rest of the world. Um, and we help uh brands either scale in the US or come to the US and crack the US because we're all sort of expats. We know how hard it is to get here. You and I were laughing. You don't just arrive on in New York and LA and start printing money. It's it's a couple, it's a couple of steps more than that. It's a little harder. So here we are today. I only work on passion projects and um yeah, I love my life, even though it's been a really tough time, and I try to be every day a beacon of hope for others who perhaps haven't had my fortune or just that I can inspire to do more and step into what they're here to do.

Right on. You know, I'm I'm curious, you know, when you came to LA, just to quick touch on that, but what what were some of the bigger cultural differences that you noticed coming from being a Kiwi to to Los Angeles of all places?

Right. So I would say, first of all, it's it's the the Amerim. You literally think you'll come here and everything will be easy. But what you do is you land, because they say you've gonna green card, isn't this awesome? Coming over, and you're like, great, you're not set up on social security, then you've got no credit, so you can't buy anything without a massive deposit, like get a house. Then you find out, oh, I can't get my kids into that school until we're living in the area. So then I need to get the house. You know, you've got to get the social, you've got to get go to the DMV and all of these things, as you know, a no small line or queue, as we say in New Zealand.

You know, so especially in a way.

That's a day, you know, sitting in a queue waiting to see if you can get your driver's license or whatever. So I would say there was that, is that it's actually harder than it looks. And anyone who's moved countries will will attest to that. There's always just so many things going on. I'd say the other thing is that you think that you're closer in culture because you speak English. But not only are our accents different, our sentiment is different, our values are different. And so everything is slightly different. Like there's even words, you know, you guys will say um acclimated, you know, and we'll say acclimatized. So there's even different words. Um, but that was sort of a shock to me. And then I'm still like the longer I stay here, the less I understand Americans. That's fascinating. Um, but you know, it's also a wonderful, wonderful thing. And my father and I always say, you know, the best and the worst resides in in the US. And I think, you know, over the last four years, I think we've seen a good deal of that, you know, both ends of it, wonderful stuff. And then, you know, some other stuff, you know, what the frig just happened, you know. So um, yeah, but it's wonderful to be here. And it is a big pond, and you learn so much. I was here because I wanted to speed up learning. I wanted to be in a big pond, get russ, you know, get roughed up a little bit, learn some lessons, and uh hopefully be able to contribute in a bigger way in the world.

Yeah, that's fascinating. I mean, I was telling you my my wife came from Brazil in her early 20s now, and uh, you know, it was just a big cultural shock. You know, she there is a ton of opportunity here uh in the United States, which she'll attest to, I'm sure as you will as well, but you got to work for it, you know, it's and it takes time, and I think that's a big thing too. And there's so many cultural shocks, she's still as she she speaks great English probably better than I do, and she speaks three languages, which is three more than I do. And uh, and you know, it's it's uh it's funny, like the little things that we say in English that make no sense, at least in American English, right? Like, well, that doesn't make any sense. Why do you say it that way? I'm well, and then I'm like, well, she'll ask me those questions, like, well, I really don't know. That's just because the way I've always said it, I guess. Um, yeah.

Oh, that's hilarious. And one more thing about LA, I mean, everyone's got three jobs and everyone drives an Uber. Like it is a hustle, you know.

Right, right. Well, especially in the last year and a half, it's been it's changed a lot. People uh like you were saying before, it's it's like you know, you see people who have an MBA or maybe a medical degree or something like that, and they're driving an Uber because things changed so drastically over the last year. Just because you have these higher forms of education doesn't mean that you um you're gonna be successful anymore. It's uh it's a completely different world. I I would like to get a little bit of background because you know, you and I were also chatting. I should have just recorded our pre-recording about about uh um you know, the history of the fitness industry, it's it's been it's relatively young. And you know, I know when I kind of when I look at the history of the industry, I go back to a certain person, right? But when you look at like where do you think the fitness industry started? Where do you where who do you think who or what was the inception of the industry?

Yeah, well, I mean, I think I mean it's about 50 years old, and I'm really talking about organized fitness. And again, I I always come from a um a group fitness slant. So, I mean, and I lean back into my heritage, which is Les Mills, which ahead of Philip and Jackie was Les and Colleen, and they were sort of in there sort of towards the beginning. Um, and you know, just when, you know, a passion, a passion-led corner, you know, space was opened and a through a few weights were were thrown around. And that that really came from, I mean, of course, there's more history than that, you know, and I came from a VZ degree as well. So, I mean, I realized that there were, you know, there was Olympic movement and there was, you know, and it very much came from sports or it came from dance. And there was sort of this meeting of, you know, this joy of meeting, uh, you know, bringing the body through and and actually having a physical experience outside just living our daily lives. So, you know, there was the early form of the gyms, and then of course there was the Jane Fonda, and then there was the Richard Simmons, and there, you know, and again, I'm just taking a group fitness focus. Then they, and you know, here's the thing, we're digital now. These guys were working at home on these old records. And I mean, I had a record with, you know, someone on there, and you had all the movements on the in the inside record cover and things like this. So these concepts that we see today have actually been around a very, very long time. It's just technology has advanced. So then you came through the clubs and then you went through, you know, the big club phase, then you went through the small club phase, then you went through uh boutiques, you know, in the early 2000s and probably for the last 10 years, I would say that you know, you had all the big box, then you came into boutique and they really skilled the whole industry in innovation on how special you could make an experience when you hyper-personalized it. And you just had people in the room who wanted to do the bike class or the rowing class or the dance class, and how elevated that experience could become. So we had the boutiques, and then of course, really you had technology coming in on top of that, which also the techniques leaned into. So all of a sudden, like Uber, um, all of these things, you just see things like payment gateways going away. So all of a sudden, it wasn't a transaction, it was just an experience. You'd already booked the bike next to your friend, paid your money, ordered your shake, you know, bought your swag, all of that stuff was sort of taken away as Amazon and the team with Jeff and all the guys have shown us is so all the transactional stuff hit in the back, and then you were just left to have this amazing multi-sensory experience. Um, you know, so you would sort of see, and then you'll see iterations. Then we saw that the value-based end happening, where you literally could join a gym, a planet, or a basic fit in Europe or a McFit or whatever it is, and pay your $10 a month or your $20 a month and actually get huge value, huge, big, awesome machines. Then technology's really taken us into this new era where I think there will be a proliferation of all those things. I think we're gonna learn the deep experience of boutique. I think we're gonna learn how much value can be bought from a very cheap membership. We're gonna be able to take our workouts in our pocket, you know, our gym and our hospitals in our pocket or on our wrist in these days. And we can actually just interact with life. Um, you know, you and I were laughing, you know, of course the gyms are coming back. If I have one more bad news uh media thing around people don't want to hang out together, it's just wrong. The cohort's gonna shift, you know, all of that stuff's gonna shift, but people are still gonna hang out together. They're still gonna do a few things at home, generally. Some people will just be at home, some people will just be in the club, some people will continue getting fat and doing nothing. Like we just know that's human nature. We're gonna be all over the paddock. But generally, if you look where retail's gone, you look where Amazon's taken us and Netflix and all those big brands that are actually influencing us more than the fitness industry, I would say. Um, you know, we're gonna be doing whatever we want wherever we are. Look at outdoors. You know, people are now have had to take their experience outdoors. Now that we're back in nature, we want to stay there. And what a wonderful thing. So now you can have a brand that's indoors, outdoors on holiday, kids are sick, who cares? I'm in my garage, doesn't matter twice this week. That's the new world. And it's really just this patchwork of everything that's gone before. And then I'd probably just add a couple of honorable mentions in there. One would be when Zumba hit the world, that really was the first inkling of how big technology could take something. Because if you think about it, that was an infomercial. Tybo was too, but they didn't have links to club, and it sort of fell flat once people bought all the Tybo tapes or whatever it was, and then they couldn't go and do it, you know, locally. Zumba solved that by making it a business model as well. So I actually love referencing those guys because I think they kind of changed things forever. And you couldn't open a gym, including Equinox, that didn't have Zumba because the market spoke and said, if you don't have that class, I'm not joining. And that hasn't happened very much in the world of fitness in our in our short 50 years. So um, yeah, anyway, that's just some some thoughts uh from my perspective, anyway.

Yeah, it's it's it's really interesting. I mean, I love so I want to ask you this question because uh you're you know, you you've written a book, building a badass boutique, you understand brands and what that means. And um, to me, like brand, when I the definition of brand is like a moving target depending on who you ask. So when you think of a brand, what what does that mean to you? How would you define that to our audience?

Yeah, I mean, for me, I I just like to I like to keep things really simple. It's one of the things I do is, and I just think it's a feeling. I think in the end, um a brand makes you feel a certain way, whether that's trust or VIP or inclusive or or whatever it is. And and I think what we're seeing now with the expansion of fitness into health and lifestyle and so many more things is we're watching all these partnerships sort of link up. You know, you can't open a club now without a mindfulness and a meditation portion. You can't open without an outdoors thing, you can't open without technology, you can't open without swag and retail and shop and how do we eat? So, you know, when I when I think of brand, it really is, and of course, you always think of, you know, positioning and who are you and who are you not and what's your purpose, like all of those things to me sit underneath what is the feeling and and do I feel at home there? And great brands attract and they repel, and you know immediately if you're at the right home, you know, and you cannot be, because I have worked for brands that try to be all things to all people, and it never works out well.

Yeah, it's it's uh I I'm I get I've been approached and I've talked to many people who are like yourself who are you know experts in branding. And to me, it's just the way my brain works. I don't understand the path to becoming a brand. I just don't, you know, maybe like what how do you start creating those? Maybe this is why it was probably a shortcoming of my gyms, is maybe we didn't develop the best brand, or maybe we did. I don't really know. I just don't know how to put a finger on it. But what what ways, if you are like if I'm let me give you an avatar because it's easier for you, let's say uh, you know, somebody who does own uh a boutique gym, right? That's your expertise. What how do I start taking the steps to creating a better feeling in a brand besides just being uh a storefront?

Right.

So I think I mean you've always got to start with your why, right? Simon Sinek and all his friends would say that. And and and that has to be, I mean, in the end, it has to be something very aligned to who you are. So I'm like, I'll give a good example because I've just worked with a a good um business in New Zealand, and we exactly did this. We did a rebrand. And when I walked in there, I thought these guys are all about community, you know, all about community. So, but they were trying to be all the things. Oh, we're VIP, but we're also lowbrow if you want that, and we do this, and we've got all these classes and we've got this people, and then we've kind of got this weird little group fitness thing that we do over here, then we've got this personal training thing, then we've got this turf, which is awful. And it was just like, okay, this is a fruit salad. Let's work out what you are, and let's work out what you aren't. Then we're going to test that on your members, and then we're actually going to double down on it. Now, having just been through that process, and it was about a nine-month process with them. Um, and I and I was right, in the end, what got them out of bed in the morning was the community that created in their community. It was very, very family-oriented family. They were a family, they, you know, they knew everyone, it was like a family, but they were getting distracted and their resources were getting stretched across a number of things that they could never deliver well on. So, long story short or short story long, we eventually got to a point where we're like, you know what, we're going to own community. Okay. So maybe you go as far as to say you don't get into this place unless you know someone. And by the way, that became not in a VIP way, but you know, if you're not going to be connected to this community at a really deep level with several people that know you and look after you, and you you're going to let down if you don't turn up, um, you know, see how that whole sales premise becomes very different to sell as many memberships as you can this week. I don't care where they come from. So it changed the sales process. We changed the colours. We did not put one fitness photo on the front of that store. It was all about happiness and it was all shapes and sizes, and it was inclusivity. And, you know, we had some, and it was they leaned into the Maori culture a little bit, sweet as bro. You know, so we we leaned into some of these New Zealandisms that were very culturally um cool and you know what you said to your mates when you're around. So really it was just going back and saying, actually, you're all about community. Now, did they lose members? Yes, they did, because some people wanted the high-end VIP. And we're like, great, that's awesome. There's a there's another gym down the road, it's really good from what I hear. You might find a better fit there. So you sort of shed those and then you become more and more like yourself, which gets easier and easier to serve. Because you know, we've all worked in management where you get all the, you can never make them happy, you know, those people. And you've just got to say, well, maybe this place, and you're allowed to fire a person every, you know, 100 or 1000, whatever it is, if they don't. Fit there because they end up being a little bit cancerous in the in the culture. And uh and that's what boutiques have done so well. If you don't like the bright lights and the fast music and cycling at that BPM and that choice and you know, swearing on the bike and crazy outfits, if you don't like that, you're gonna hate it there and that's good. But if you like that, you are gonna come out so lit up that you are ready to take on the world. So I would say know who you are, know who you're not. And then of course, you know, depending on its very competitive times, right? And you've got some pretty big faux out there, is that you do have to do your competitive analysis, you know. So what makes us different? So there's a good example with the VIP um crowd down the road, let them be VIP, let them do the sweat towels and let them do the beautiful marketing and stuff like that. I'm trying to get my crowd to actually not do marketing at all. Why would we need to if we've got word of mouth, which is king and queen of all sales anyway? And we just double our efforts down on that and we run one enormous um welcome to the family each month, and it's a party, and you meet all the people, and you, you know, so you can see how that starts to go in a different direction than getting the very professional tour over here and the the 300-point test that you might on the way in because you're a VIP. They feel different. So every mechanism then needs to hang off what is in your heart, essentially. And then you've got to run a good business. I mean, there's a lot of people that unfortunately have gone out of business. Some of them were not profitable enough, some of them were just starting up, some of them were too small, but some of them just weren't run well enough. This is still a business, you got to make a healthy return. Um, and it starts with brand. You know, who are you? Who are you not?

Oh, great answer. Yeah, it's interesting. I was asked the question uh earlier this week that, you know, well, how is how is the gym business going to be different after pandemic? I'm like, well, it's not. You have to run a solid business. You if eight, if you're focusing 80% on the fundamentals, which is know who you are, know your ideal client, run a profitable business, retain your clients and your coaches and your trainers, all those things, all fundamentals, it's not changing. You know, we have different options now, you know, a technology, and we'll get into that, I'm sure, at some point. But really, operating a fundamentally strong business is key to solving most problems, yet it's not the sexiest thing to talk about, right? It's just like it's like fitness. Well, do you get enough movement? Are you drinking enough water? Uh, are you getting enough sleep? Are you managing your stress? Like, that's it. You know, it doesn't have to be more complicated than that. Everything else on top of that can be, you know, what you can call your secret sauce, but really uh, you know, it's operating great businesses is so it's universally sound. Um, 100%.

And it comes down to the people, comes down to the plan, and then just you know, execution, consistency, and and you know, you do have to keep an eye out. Uh, it's it is very competitive times. The bar has been raised, and some people are doing a phenomenal job. And you know, there is a new standard that we need to meet now. And you know, the other thing I'm telling everyone, because everyone's oh, the machines are coming, the machines are coming. Yeah, sure. Sure, the machine's coming. But you know, let them do the donkey work. You know, I've just come off a couple of other podcasts just with the new white paper from Anne Millane on the role of data and AI. And it's like if you're not using any predictive technology, you know, you're going to get overtaken because you've got, you know, email and AI. I mean, without getting all scary about it, you know, it's going to learn stuff. And we as humans do a crap job generally of data entry, data management, you know, doing all the little things we're supposed to be doing. And by the way, we run out of capacity. A machine, I mean, he's got a stat that's something like across 45, across 45 data points, right? So age, name, gender, how you came, what was your sale, whatever. So get all of those. A human will make a decision, right? Um, but that, you know, through AI, it will come out as something like 8.8 million decision trees based on all those variables, which then will give you a predictive behavior for you, the one member. So we can't compete with that. And, you know, he made the good point is, you know, we're surrounded by AI all the time, you know, and Memal. You know, we're sitting here, machine learning, where, you know, we're getting our Netflix fed to us, we're getting our Spotify playlists sent to us, we're, you know, wasing our way around the world. And these are all examples of this real-time data that's always learning and giving you more and more accurate outputs according to what you're asking for. So we we don't judge those mediums, but when it comes to the fitness industry, we're just we sit here and we go, well, we don't want the machines to take over the world. Too late, baby. The the ship has sailed.

Why do you think that is, Emma? Why do you think the fitness industry is so fearful?

I just think we've probably been too myopic, and I just think we're too young. Like, you know, from the search experience, the the quality of the conversations we have around technology generally comes from those not in the fitness industry. So look, your top operators are having these conversations, no doubt about it. Some of them are, you know, they've they're using AI now, some of them are, you know, they they did their digital transformations years ago. They could see this coming, they worked it out and they're sort of there. But then the most of our industry is we're just slow to the party. I mean, I, for the last three years, have been going to CES, the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas, for no other reason than to just get the shit scared out of me because every other industry is represented there. We are like the smallest. I found the 11 people, you know, there was a quarter of a million people went through that event, right? I found the 11 fitness people. We had dinner together and it was led by the My Zone boys. But it's like, this is crazy. I'm looking at medtech and I'm looking at health tech and I'm looking at transport and home and smart. And Apple was even there for privacy reasons last year. And it's so I see that world, most of the fitness industry doesn't. So they're not, they don't realize how far along things are getting, like the nanotech going into neonatal babies and stuff. I can see that nanotech coming into wearables, but it's not going to come in from fitness because it's very expensive, but it will come in from health. Like once you get a big enough check, you're going to be able to bring all that stuff to the fitness industry, edibles, injectables, like all these sorts of ways that we're measuring. You know, we've either wearing a watch or we've got something wrapped around our middle. That's kind of where we're at with the fitness wearables. But if you look sideways to medical, etc., you can see where this is going. I'm a big fan of ARVR. I mean, I just think, well, that, you know, you don't want to wear, you know, a country on the size on the front of your face right now. Those interfaces are going to get smaller. They are getting smaller. And you know what it's like? You have this experience. I mean, you feel fear, you feel excitement. It puts you there. Physiologically, you feel like you're there. And I think we just don't, we haven't been surrounded by it, therefore we're scared of it. You know, it's like when fire first came, right? It's the same, it's the same feeling. But I just urge people, please lean into it. Please have someone on your board that's understands technology if you'd quite like to be here longer than five years. Like just really just look around the world. And uh, we can't help it. The forces around us are bigger than the forces within fitness.

I love it. Thank you. Thank you for saying all that. I excuse me, I am a huge fan of obviously fitness technology. I think it presents a huge, tremendous opportunity for if you're willing to embrace it and not get run over by it. I mean, just even talking to you know about the partners of my podcast, Inside Tracker is now providing a pro platform, right? Where you can get, you know, health statistics that you never had on your clients before. And you can get put it into a dashboard, you can check it and monitor it. Morpheus bringing in lifestyle and recovery data for all of your clients into a useful and an actionable platform. Like these are tools that we didn't have two years ago that bring so much value to our profession because we still are the people who know how to use it, right? I mean, you can sure we're never going to compete with Apple Health or Apple Fitness or any of these that are mainly consumer driven, but people still want to work with people. And if we can arm ourselves with all this information, and then of course you bring all that data in, then you have companies like Ian's Keepme.ai or Scipio and what they're doing there, like all these companies are taking all this data and putting into a very useful and uh valuable format for fitness professionals and gym owners and business people within the industry. So I think it's extremely exciting. I mean, all of this stuff we saw coming, right? And it's just now in the last 18 months, it got accelerated to this. I never even would have thought it would have gone this fast, but it it has. Uh, and to be truth be told, like I was thinking about exiting the fitness industry, it was just moving too slow for me. The pandemic hit. I was like, well, it's not moving slow anymore. Um, so it's it's pretty uh it's an exciting time at fitness. And yes, it was, you know, out of respect to everybody. And you know, you and I felt it uh as well, financial pain from from the pandemic. But now that we're kind of coming out of it, I think there's uh there's a there's a lot to be excited about, which brings me to a topic I would love to kind of go into is how when you look at the fitness industry overall and what you're doing with uh good soul hunting and and providing you know talent acquisition and I guess kind of like a headhunting thing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but how are you seeing the type of talent change over the last year in the fitness industry? What does that look like now?

Yeah, it's a it's a great question. And and I and I just wanted to pick up on one thing you said before I answered that for you, and that is look, even though the machines are coming, we're still human and we seek that human, that human contact and being together. And it's an opportunity for us to really capitalize on those human moments. So whether it's socializing, brainstorming, solving problems, like just being together, really focus on the pieces that the machine can't do because that is what we remember. And it goes back to that brand. You know, when I walk into a place, it's like when you go into your favorite store, it smells a certain way. You feel, you know, you just feel more powerful, right? It steps you up into who you potentially want to be. And that's what we need to be. We need to be the people people. No one showed up like the fitness industry during the pandemic. Who went online first, who held people's hopes high, who was out there, you know, virtually just pivoting overnight almost. Some brands were sort of up and running the following week and they they didn't even know how to do it, you know. So we are those people, we are those cheerleaders and those pied pipers. So, because I don't want there to be a big black cloud above us all. It's kind of like, sure, you've got to find out where you're gonna be in the new ecosystem. And it is an ecosystem now, and you've really got to think of all the partners in it. But just think of, you know, again, just run your journey through your whole business and think, where are the points that really matter? What's all the stuff? You know, I love a quote that um Brian O'Rourke says, you know, automate the mundane. And then when you step into those people moments, how can you make them more special without being creepy, right? Like no one wants to get, you know, you know, accosted when they walk in the in the door, but there's a way to do that in a way that's that's really human. And that, you know, and the other thing is people will let themselves down, but they don't let other people down. And and I think when you can build that community, the community holds itself together. We had some people who actually went up in in uh uh in retention and things like that during the pandemic because of the phenomenal job they did. So it is possible, but you've got to be on it and you've got to be not leaning into fear, but but definitely leaning into stay in action because you can't be fearful when you're acting like that. That's kind of the thing. But then what are the human moments? We're gonna own the welcome, the the something else, and then the the goodbye, and we're always gonna do a notification afterwards so people feel special. You know, there's just a way that we can all up-level. So I just encourage people to do that. So talent, what I'm seeing, or what we're seeing in talent. So our teams across the US and the UK, and we are definitely seeing adjacent industries, people from adjacent industries beginning to tip into the fitness industry because the roles that we're looking to uh to fill predominantly. So we're we're C-suite, we're senior specialists in the fit tech, well tech, health tech sector. So a lot of people obviously they want to start with often the CEO, COO, uh president, those sorts of roles. So we're sort of where you can, of course, you always start at the top so that you can build the team that the team wants. But we are definitely seeing growth marketers, we're seeing people with big digital backgrounds, we're seeing people who have scaled products, um both bricks and mortar and and digital products, hybrid models, uh, those sorts of things, strong background and fidgetal, um, those sorts of things. So we're we are looking at adjacent industries. So, and coming back to our brand discussion before, when we work with businesses who are trying to build out a team, we'll say to them, you know, what brands do you love? It doesn't matter what industry they come from. And quite often we will be able to approach people in those industries and actually pull them across. Because brand is actually, it doesn't have to be segment, you know, defined by the segment. If you want to grow, I mean, look what's happened at the entertainment. You know, everyone's been pulling people uh across from other industries. When I when I was at Equinox, I was watching people come in from the fashion industry and from magazine industry that was going digital, from hospitality. You know, what did they do? They went and hired the the dude from four seasons when the hotel was being built. So we're seeing, we're seeing the tipping of adjacent industries coming in. People are very, very excited about the fitness industry. And there's no longer that, oh, I have to work for $3 feeling about it, because most of the people we work with our sweet spots about Series B funding. You know, there's a lot of money tipping into our industry right now. So and they want to build the best team because if you think about it, you know, everyone says, you know, people are your biggest asset, but it's actually true, especially now, because technology is accelerating, talent is accelerating. So you cannot afford to have a team that's just sort of, you know, plodding along because the whole world is going so fast, you're feeling it, I'm feeling it. So you need someone who's been where you're going because they can pave that that road faster. And so we go out and we look for those people. So those are some of the trends that we're definitely seeing. And sometimes we reach into brands that a business would never think of looking to, because we see the role for what it is. This person has to grow that metric by that much. Therefore, we'll go and look for people who've done that in other industries who might be really excited about working in an industry they actually like. And we get that a lot. People are coming off widgets and other things, or perhaps it doesn't have as wholly a purpose as the fitness industry does. And they are more than happy. And of course, they have salary expectations, but when you're newly funded and you want the best team, you're going to pay for it. So that's sort of the main thrust of what we're seeing at the moment.

Yeah, that's one of the biggest things, you know, that's happened really over the last year and a half to two years is that the level of talent has increased due to primarily funding, right? Let's be honest. I mean, there's been so much money poured into the industry. And I was talking to um, who was I talking about Grossen over at Scipio about, you know, they're on um, you know, a major tour looking to get their next round of funding. And you know, the institutionalized investors still seem to be a little reluctant, right? But private equity, um, you know, uh angel investors, they're all over the fitness and health industry, they're everywhere. And it's it's really exciting. I'm curious too, because you know what I've I've seen from uh limited perspective, not quite as into the the talent movement as you are, but I've seen a lot of companies come in who don't have a fitness background, but maybe have a tech bound or look, they're looking for fitness heavy, experienced people. Are you seeing that on the flip side as well?

Yes, we are, because I think now that we're in the health conversation, and let's face it, that's that's one of the big trends that's come out of now. And you know, ultimately we have to solve the health issue in this country, at least, let alone the rest of the world. So, and I think, you know, yeah, and then you think about Apple. I mean, then them coming in, because you know, they they launched, it wasn't with a lot of fan fear, they're capable of a lot more fan fear than that. But, you know, with Fitness Plus launching, that essentially validated fitness as part of the health equation. And then with that, you know, I mean, I'm sure you're the same, you know, I get my health insurance, and then I've got a bunch of boutiques that I can actually go to for a while and things like that. So that never used to be the be the be the case. So I think that's where those big checks are coming, let alone the spacs. I mean, it's just it's absolutely ridiculous out there. I mean, we, and I'm sure you do too, you spend a lot of time in investment meetings and people putting their pitch decks together and and things like that. But we're definitely seeing I've got a great idea. Um, fitness happens to be the um happens to be the medium, and I'm gonna buy that talent in. I mean, that's essentially what happened for Paloton. I mean, I mean, yes, John Pauly, I mean, yes, he came from Barnes and Noble or whatever and sort of was an Equinox thing, but they went and bought the talent. And here's the thing: they bought it on a fresh perspective. Because if we had the fitness industry had gone out, we would have chosen the same five heads that we choose for everything else. Those guys went in and said, about influencing, we're gonna train them in what we're doing, but we want fellowship. They've got to have a social media presence, they've got to be good to camera, they've got to, this has got to be their life, you know, they've got to have musicality, you know, we want Broadway people, we want comedians, we want, you know, we've got to do the full rainbow, we're gonna have diversity, all of that stuff. But they had a different and a fresh perspective, and they had the money to fund it. And often these big ideas just fall flat because the the funding's not there to actually make it really good. Um, and that takes time. You've got to you've got to do the time and they follow the data, you know, which is not what most of the industry's done. And you can get really good really fast if you follow the data, you know.

Yeah, it's God, you found yourself in a really interesting, interesting place, Emma. I mean, the the talent now is, I mean, you and I were once again chatting, pre-recording about how much a Peloton instructor can make. I found out and it blew my mind, absolutely blew my mind that a fitness instructor can make that much money now. Um, sure. I mean, it's the top 0.01%, right, of the industry. But it is, you know, I don't think like you talks about the inception in the industry. I kind of go back to, I think, Jack Lane, because I'm from the Bay Area, you know, that was to me the inception of the fitness industry. No one would have ever thought that half a million dollars would have been a salary for a fitness professional at any point, anytime soon, right? Even given inflation rates from that time. So it's like now talent seems to be even more integral because you see you're right. I mean, we're tech is evolving, but having the right people in the right place right now to you know gain strong footholds in this industry is critical. So kudos. Do you how did you see this need coming, or did you just kind of end up there? Where how did you how did you think about starting good soul hunting?

We saw the need, and our colleagues had actually started another brand in the UK. So that's sort of sort of a going concern when when we got together and chatted about it. We definitely saw the need because um, you know, we could just see where fitness was going. And we we also we've all spent enough time recruiting to know that the the normal ways that you do it is really hard to fit. You've got to get really, it takes a long time. I mean, it's typically, I mean, gosh, it might take us 80 hours to headhunt the right person. Do you know what I mean? Go through all the things and find the right brands and because, you know, everything on paper is not quite as it seems, and you've got to check, you know, there's a lot of things. Um, and it's a big number. You know, we start with a big number that comes down to a small number. Are they interested? You know, all of that stuff. So we saw the need. The only thing that that shifted during the pandemic was we did pivot a little bit more. We do have bricks and mortar and we have some just pure digital plays. We did pivot a little bit more out of bricks and mortar because you work out very quickly that the old fitness industry, there's not a lot of money there. There's probably about three or four gentlemen around the world doing quite well, but the rest of us there's not there's not a lot there when you compare to the fit tech side and any tech side, frankly. Um, it's just where the money is because it's where the scale is. Even if you're on a subscription model of a small amount of dollars, you have a lot of small amount of dollars. We don't have that in the fitness industry, and the expenses are so high if you're just bricks and mortar. So, yeah, so we saw it coming. We've pivoted a little bit, we've had to tighten our focus a little bit because you know, you get very busy very quickly, especially in startup, as you know. And um, yeah, so yeah, we knew it was coming. It's been just more satisfying and more interesting than we thought it would be, you know, because you know, you've recruited people for you know years and years, but it's like this is really special because we're actually getting to create history with some teams that are going so fast and have done things that have never been, they're doing things that have never been done before. And I think that that captures people's imagination. Everyone believes in the solution that they're delivering the world. And I think that's a wonderful thing. So I get excited because I think provided we can follow some of the advice that all these wonderful brands are pumping out there, you know, the future's really bright. There's some just wonderful, wonderful things coming, especially through the fitness technology space.

Yeah, awesome. So out of curiosity, with you know, the people you've been working with over the last year, um, who has you most excited? And who has you excited? I'm not going to make it competitive. Um, you know, what what brands or companies in the fit tech space are really kind of keeping your eye?

Yeah, so I mean it's interesting. We we're actually working with a few people, which I can't mention right now, but basically off the Fit Tech uh summit in Munich, I think I found that really fascinating, where you've got a lot of like this, there's a lot of technology, you know, sort of the Munich, uh, you know, Israel, Berlin, you know, those sorts of places. So you start to make friends with all of those people and see what they're up to. Everyone has a dream to kind of come to the US. I mean, we're really excited. There's a bunch of brands we're working with out of Australia where they've actually, because I find there's there's a really good link between Australia and America, actually. It's sort of the same land mass. There's a real tenacity in both cultures, I would say, because that's the other thing about the US culture. Boy, do we know how to scale things. In fact, there was a funny analogy at the FitTech Summit by Natalia, uh, Who's the CEO and she runs that whole thing? And she was sort of saying in the same time that 10 US companies will launch a product, you know, in Munich or in Germany, they'll launch one. And by the time they've actually launched the second one, that five of those US ones would have folded, you know, blown up, you know, folded and moved on. And so she was basically talking about the pace at which the US scales and farms and gets out there and tries stuff and unicorns and then crashes and it hits the market. And you know, she just said it's it's it's humorous, really, because she said they're they're too pedestrian. We just go bolt out of a gate. You know, it doesn't even need to be a very good idea. Someone throws a billion dollars at it and it just everywhere. And then it so it was just funny. Yeah, it was really funny how you know, just to hear it, hear the Germans talk about that. Um, and they have some incredible technology, like because they're just they're so smart and so open and they're just working on stuff. So, I mean, one of my favorite brands at the moment is um it's a bit of a um David and Goliath story, actually, is Box Union and Title, because they are bricks and mortar. But you would have expected Title to have bought Box Union, which was just like four sites in LA sort of thing, but it went the other way around. And so now, in the same way that Peloton um bought Pre-Corps in order to obviously secure the uh the manufacturing, I mean, no one saw that coming. Well, no one saw Box Union, a boxing boutique buying title distribution of what over 160 sites or whatever it is with global aspirations. So I love that. And then who's at the front of that? A marketing girl who's just awesome, and then um uh uh event, you know, a money guy. But they had this passion for boxing and what it could do on as part of people's mental health fitness story. So, I mean, I just love their story and they're going fast and they've done everything in the right order. They've hide the top, they've come down. We've worked, you know, we've partnered with them through that process and you know, placed a number of roles, but I love it because it was unusual and it's actually giving a little sign to the industry that no clubs aren't going away, but you got to get damn good at doing it. Um, I also do a bunch of work with Explore and they're busy lining up all the software, everything from enterprise down to boutique. You know, so you sort of look at these brands and you're like, they're making the world a lot smaller place, but they're bringing best practice across all the aspects of what they do. So that um, you know, and that's where you're gonna get your really, really good business basics being executed. I mean, you look at franchising and licensing right now, man, it's just out of control. You look at your orange theories and you know, all of these, all of these brands, um, because they've got the business playbook, right? And then they're just sort of playing it out. So, you know, you and I have seen a bit of a thinning of the herd. I think there's going to be, there's definitely going to be some set a settling period over the next couple of years. Not everyone's gonna make it, but in the end, it's going to be better. Uh, because those that do, you know, are going to have to stand on pure business basics, right?

Yeah, 100%. Emma, this has been a fascinating conversation. I love your insights. Uh, and you are, you know, you you mentioned before, you do instill hope. I think that's the biggest thing. I mean, I've always been very positive on this show. I think there's a lot to look forward to in the fitness industry. I think it's a great time. Like I said, I almost left, but now I'm all in, fully in. Um, I think it's really exciting time. So yeah, give us give us some understanding. Where where do you send people online? Where can people get more, Emma Barry?

Right. So Instagram is where I'm most prolific. So uh it's my name, Emma C C Barry. Uh, also on LinkedIn, of course, that's pretty much where we trade. So you'll definitely find me there and just around the place. I post Sunday shout-out, so I'm pretty much do a do a lifetime of talking. So uh yeah, just Google my name and I'll pop up. But um, Insta is probably the main place. And then Good Soul Hunting, uh, just by the name, um, you'll find that is a website. So that's for senior executives, um, yeah, looking to place in the in the industry. And I'm really happy that it's positive because it is really positive. And, you know, I have a lot of clients that I mentor as well. And it's like, you know, sometimes I just say, look, sometimes you just got to hop off that horse and hop on another one. So don't be scared to jump on a winning horse. Uh, because I think, you know, that that's the other thing that I make sure that I spend a lot of time in technology space is just, you know, keep moving. And if it's not working, try something else. Because I believe, you know, we'll probably have a number of careers. I mean, things are happening so fast. I expect to have at least four or five different careers uh in my life, hopefully.

Yeah, right. That's a great, that's a great way to look at it too. And it is uh you guys you always gotta be looking for what is the next phase of a career. And sometimes it's never what you thought it was. But when opportunities arise, you have to explore it. And that's uh just a good way to live. So, Emma Berry, thank you so much. It's it's it's a pleasure to finally get you on the show. And uh, I'm excited to uh get you back on in the next year or two as well.

Oh, wonderful! And thanks for having me. I mean, you do an incredible job, and um, yeah, this has been awesome.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Emma Berry. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futurofitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.