David Van Daff - The Many Evolutions of "Health Clubs"

Hey everyone, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over four years and running. I'm your host, Eric Balzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, executives, thought leaders, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurofitness.co to subscribe and get our interviews with summaries delivered straight to your inbox. Thanks for listening and on to the show. Hey friends, I couldn't be more proud and excited to announce that today's episode is powered by workout, the ultimate tool for modern fitness professionals just like you. There is one thing that fires me up: it's elevating the personal training and coaching industry. For that, the Workout app is an absolute game changer. No more promoting top brands without compensation or dealing with confusing social media links. In just a few clicks, Workout's user-friendly app lets top trainers and coaches curate and share the world's most sought-after fitness brands like HyperIce, Vega, and more. Product lines covering everything from fitness equipment to supplements and apparel. Save time and boost your earnings with generous commissions and bonuses every time your client purchases the products you already endorse. Do not wait. Maximize your income and streamline your business with store by workout. Discover more at workout.com. That's w-r-k-o-ut.com. Just one-o. W-r-k-o-ut- go get it. Okay. We are live. David Van Daff. Welcome to the Future of Fitness.

Thank you, Eric. Pleasure to be here.

Yeah, it is an absolute pleasure. We are sitting here on the morning of uh, I guess, day two of the trade show at Idea in uh Los Angeles. And I guess first question for you. Well, let me introduce you. You are the director of global industry development. Uh that is one hell of a title, man, uh, for NASM. And uh you have a wealth of experience. I mean, 27 years. We're gonna cover a lot of things about the evolution of health clubs, what's changed, what hasn't, um, the innovation that's taking place, what you guys are up to, obviously, at NASM. Uh, but I guess my first question for you is you now are on day two after the trade show. You had a full day yesterday, busy. Uh as all people know, when you do conferences like this, it's nonstop, right? Um, it's like adrenaline coffee conversations, meetings, maybe a meal if you're lucky. Um What what are your first uh impressions after day one of this conference?

First impression to start with is I go back far enough, you know, obviously pre-COVID, and and this has probably been my 23rd, 24th idea conference. Oh it's wonderful to see the droves of people coming back into the conference world. We had a bit of this experience uh last year, even the year before, as people started coming back, whether it was URSA, IDEA, um, Athletic Business Conference, variety of the other ones that are out there, it just keeps on growing. Much like the health club industry coming after COVID, where we really learn the fact that uh people did build out their home gyms, people did sign up for subscriptions, and start doing things independently as though gyms were closed, but as soon as those gyms opened, they found their way back. Same thing within the fitness industry. So it's been wonderful to see longtime business operators, innovators coming back to this conference. It's great seeing new faces. Um big message is that these aren't going away, that people do want to interact with their peers, they do want to come and see what is new and and and what what is in a booth and what new technology exists, etc. etc. So that's been exciting. Um every year, somewhat kind of post-COVID within our industry, we get more and more of those folks coming back.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Is is there anything uh when we talk about innovation in some of the brands and I'm just kind of looking around, is there anything that's that stood out to you, anything that you found pretty interesting and new?

That's a great question. I wouldn't say new and innovative, um, looking as we're sitting here looking at the TRX booth that we're we're so familiar with. Yeah. That same type of equipment, but seeing new faces and seeing new programming associated with it. So I'll say more and more spins on existing products, existing businesses, how they're promoting themselves, what they are providing. So not necessarily new products, but almost like new marketing, uh new pushes to represent the modern everyday fitness consumer, which is different than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago.

Yeah, absolutely. And we're gonna we're gonna circle back that because that's a really meaty point. Um let's let's guide through this. I mean, 27 years you've been in the in the industry now. You've you've been uh when uh NASM, you were for a period of time, you stepped away, did some other things, and now you're back. But I guess as as best you can, summarizing 27 years, which is a hard thing to do. But give us a little bit of your background. How did you get to this point?

Absolutely. Was working in sport throughout college, was a graduate assistant at University of Tennessee football, coming out in 1996. While I was interviewing to continue in sports, Ballet Total Fitness was booming. And booming in Chicago. I had come back, I was interviewing for a variety of different positions, and Ballet was very aggressive in hiring people from sport, some fitness involvement, um, and and doing so in such a way where they were creating the career paths in fitness that didn't exist previously. In 1996, I was hired, eventually took over the Chicago market for ballet, which was roughly 30 to 35 clubs, um, found a passion for fitness and the business of fitness that I didn't know existed. The thought process was I would do that for a year while I was interviewing within sport, finding the pathway that I wanted to pursue. And every month that I was in fitness, I enjoyed it more and more. Was in a period of time within this industry to where it was growing exponentially. So I was at a very young age able to take on more and more responsibility. So I went from running a club to running the Chicago market to coming over to corporate to help run all of fitness operations, personal training, group exercise, education, anything associated with fitness fell into my realm all within a quick period of time. Snap of the finger, 14 years later, highs and lows of Bally, found my way then eventually to NASM. I was a big customer client of NASM over the course of time that I was running things for Ballet, in particular personal training and the volume of personal trainers that were working in our facilities. So it was a natural fit for me to come over to NASM. Did that for five years, had an opportunity to be a part of a startup with other folks from the fitness industry and more particularly NASM, did that for five years, and then as NASM continued to grow exponentially and just grow by leaps and bounds, and made other acquisitions, one in particular Club Connect, from that was started by the Idea Group, uh, it opened up an opportunity that was just way too good to be true. And I found myself back at NASM a little over three years ago, then running all of global industry development.

Yeah. It's quite a journey. David, uh and when we say that the director of global industry development, I mean I know we'll we'll get into Club Connect and maybe you can you know give everyone who's not familiar with what that is, uh, but uh it's something like 10,000 health clubs, gyms on that. Yeah, so what what is your role? What is that that big glob of of words uh as a title? What does that mean?

To start with, I oversee the health club division. We could we still call it a health club division. Sometimes that just feels like an outdated term, but it's probably the most appropriate term.

Yeah.

When you think about the facilities that are represented here in an idea, some of them consider themselves health clubs, some of them are gyms, some of them are studios, some are boutiques, some are performance uh uh facilities, etc. etc. But we group them all into health club. I oversee the health club division. So providing solutions to health clubs is our primary objective. That may be in the form of helping gyms advertise open positions on NASMJobs.com. It may come in the form of, hey, they we need to get people certified within this location. So providing discounts and pathways for those employees or aspiring employees to become educated and certified. It may be Club Connect, which is, and we can talk about this, but but it is a uh a hub for continuing education. Personal trainers, group exercise instructors that need to maintain continuing education. We've got over 400 courses that they can participate in in order to maintain that certification. Uh we also have courses for the front desk person that needs to understand customer service starting in a position. We also have CPR for everybody within the facility that needs it. Uh we also have courses tied into particular equipment. As we brought up TRX before, we've got courses that show programming on TRX. We have courses that go through uh MyZone, for example, in terms of how to utilize that in your programming. So anything that you can think of to educate, develop, grow, continue to maintain a certification falls in under Club Connect. So it falls into this um this overall deliverable of solutions that we provide the HealthCub industry. So that's that's the primary within my global industry development. But it extends beyond U.S. borders. So I oversee our international division too. We're in 28 countries right now that we are actively selling product and educating staff. Um so I oversee that division. And then in particular, when we we break out the solutions, then Club Connect is a business unto itself. So not only with Club Connect do we have the continuing education, but we've got a variety of different resources and um and different things that a club can utilize in terms of maintaining a staff, helping develop a staff, and retaining a staff ultimately.

Got it, got it. Well, thank you for that. And you know, I I think a good segue is here, you you mentioned during that um last piece that the term health club seems to be a bit outdated. Right. Uh I think that's uh a really nice conversation starter because I mean over 27 years we've seen a lot. I mean, Bally's obviously is a you know legendary brand. Um I'm not exactly sure what happened to Bally's. We don't have to get into that now, but uh um I know it was when I was uh younger, it was it was it was a really big deal. Um what okay, why do you feel that the term health club is outdated? Or why do you think the industry feels that way?

I think because of its origins, 1980, 1990, the health club industry. You brought up Bally. Go back to 1996. Bally Total Fitness is in 26 major cities. Most of these cities, if you want to begin working out in a facility, it's either Bally or it's 24-hour fitness. If you're on the West Coast, it's 24. If you're Midwest to East, it is Bally. When you made that commitment to exercise, you were typically walking into one of the two clubs. At the time it was a health club. A lot of the early Bally Total Fitness Clubs were set up on leg warmers and fancy group exercise, and there were taverns that were built into the health club environment to where it was a social setting, it was all kinds of crazy lights. It was part disco, part group exercise, part what now would be considered outdated equipment, early days of fitness, moving more and having fun doing it. So I think that health club term for a lot of us that have been in the industry for a long period of time goes back to that visual, not the modern day box we'll call it that typically people go into. Um so I I think just because of its age is why it gets grouped into that. Is it still associated with health? Probably now more than ever. Right. Um, but but the whole aspect of health club, it's it's just an older term. It's the the same way of group exercise. Like we don't call it jazz or size anymore or dance or or some of the other things that we're gonna do.

Yeah, I was thinking of aerobics. Yeah, aerobics, perfect.

Perfect. Bit of an is it still relevant? Does it still apply? Without question. It's just an older term.

Yeah, got it. Well, uh so what let's start with this. What has changed, you know, over the last like two to three decades within we'll still I still call them health clubs. Uh maybe I'm outdated. That's possible. Uh but what do you uh what has changed? Then we'll get into what hasn't.

So let's go back on that ballet model we talked about in '96. You make a commitment to exercise, you walk into a ballet club. You're more than likely not shopping the club and then going to two or three other clubs because it's more than likely your only option. You're going in, you're buying a membership. Back in this era, typically you're buying a three-year commitment. So it's not a month-a-month, that didn't exist. You are signing up in a three-year commitment, and it was a pretty steep financial commitment at that point. Almost like buying a car. You're saying, hey, next 36 months, I'm going to be paying you $50 to $80 to $100 a month, and I'm going to stay with this exercise program. And regardless if I go or not, I owe you that money consistently. In going into that environment, then, you typically would go through an orientation. You would be taught a workout program. Because Eric, the the internet doesn't exist back then. You may buy a book on exercise, but in a lot of cases, the folks that were buying memberships there are going, I've never been a Health Cup member, I've never had a commitment to exercise, I've never been on a routine, I've watched Jack Lane on television a bit, I know what athletes are doing to a certain degree, but teach me what I need to do. Far different than what it is today in the Instagram influencer world, in the give me a workout off of my phone, and six billion hits come up with a variety of different exercise routines. We lacked that information and knowledge. So typically you're coming in, going through an orientation with your three-year commitment. Personal training does not exist. Um affiliate type supplemental services do not exist within a healthcare. There's no nutrition, there's no small group personal training. You've got a group exercise schedule which is going to give you slide and step, and maybe in a couple of years you're going to get some spinning classes, some uh uh uh cycle type classes that are going to become made available. Personal training back then was viewed as a service that was for um people that had high amounts of exponential income. Oh, it's a oh no, that's for celebrities, for the ultra-rich, for um these are things that could not exist within an everyday health club because they just couldn't be profitable. Maybe 1% of the population would have the interest and ability to employ a personal trainer. So you think back to that era that existed 27 years ago in 1996, and then the evolution from 96 to 2000 and what that looked like. And that's where we started to see these types of services being employed. More and more people are buying health club memberships, but yet three months, six months, nine months, three years later, they're right where they started. They're not getting to the results and goals that they were after. And so as an industry, we took a step back and said, okay, what do we need to do about this? How come our members are not getting those results? And if they're not getting those results, they're no longer providing referrals. Nobody's showing up to work and going, hey, you look great. Like, what are you doing that leads to the pipeline of leads and people coming in going, I want to look like that, I want to feel like that. So that's where we started to evolve as an industry going, what can we do to help stimulate those results? Personal training, small group personal training. We talked about nutrition in the early days, 96 to 2000, it was a hold on, we know there's supplements out there, but that's outside of our scope. If we start providing recommendations, we're not registered dietitians, you know, this could put uh us into um some form of liability. We can't we're not registered dietitians, we can't give meal and menu planning, but we figured that out as an industry. How do we provide nutrition support to help stimulate these results, which is going to fuel our entire industry? With that, then now you fast forward to the 2020s and we've got recovery rooms. We took racquetball courts and we said, okay, 3% of our membership use racquetball, make that into a personal training studio. Um now we've got we've taken these lines and lines and lines of selectorized equipment and go, let's go with two lines, let's open up the floor and put in suspension trainers, let's put in kettlebells, let's expand out the freeway room. So it has always been about one thing, which is helping members get results. And I think as an industry, the reason that we've evolved is we've seen our members. We see the members that are coming in day after day after day, and it's a they aren't getting the results, and if they're not, they're eventually going to phase out. And um, and they're not gonna provide those referrals, and we're not gonna grow, and they're going to find other solutions because the quest towards getting those results is not gonna go away, but they're gonna lose confidence in themselves if we're not providing the solutions for them to get to those results.

Yeah, yeah, well said. There's a lot I want to dive into on that. I mean, I I guess the no, ultimately consumer demands drive the change, right? You know, how how consumers shift and what they need and what they want. You know, something as I look at that time spam, because that's basically, you know, I'm 46 years old, so I kind of seen that evolution too. I remember when my dad joined 24 Hour Fat Fitness and it was a three-year commitment, and it was like lifetime for like 20 bucks a month, right? If he's bought this huge package. And then uh anyway, um, one of the things I've noticed, and maybe this got accelerated over the pandemic, and it feel free to agree, disagree, but you know, that the gym and health club used to be the center of one's fitness, right? It was like, okay, everything's there, the knowledge, the equipment. Um, and then, you know, like I said, accelerated, but it started a long time ago, but it accelerated over the pandemic. But it's like there's so much information out there. There's so many apps, there's so many resources. There's podcasts, there's YouTube, there's, you know, people can just ask their, you know, ask Siri for whatever. Now it's ChatGPT, you can get a workout plan within uh, you know, 30 seconds of your specific needs and what you want. So, like, what do you I mean that that's my kind of thought is like technology is kind of driving people from I always use the the hub and smoke models, like the the the gym and health club used to be the hub right of everything. And now the consumer's the hub of everything. And and the health club's a spoke, right? But they have all these different ways that they can get fit, whether it be you know outdoors or you know, recovery or an application or home fitness, right? It's just part of that. So I mean, do you do you would you agree with that or do you have a different take on that? Or why do you think the consumer demands are driving all this change within the health clubs?

It's a great question. Let me start by saying this. Back when I started in the industry, if somebody came in to tour a club and buy a membership, more than likely it's the first time they've ever bought a membership to a health club. So this is a new journey. And when they were coming in, they had the confidence that, hey, I made the commitment, I finally stopped into the health club, I've, you know, I'm now going to go forth and get the results I'm looking for. These days, when somebody walks into a health club, more than likely they've belonged to multiple health clubs in the past. Maybe it was a 24-hour fitness back in the day, and that didn't seem to work. Then they then they bought a membership to a studio because a friend of theirs started going to classes and they were looking good, but you know, that didn't work out very well. Maybe they made a commitment to their home chip then ultimately and said, I'm going to buy a Peloton and I'm going to go through this programming. And and then that evolved into something else. Once again, that quest towards results. But I think what's happened is the consumer has lost confidence in many cases in themselves. So it's a they're not coming into the health cup anymore going, This is it, this is the Oasis, I have found it, now I'm on my way to getting those results. They come in with a bit of trepidation, I believe, because they have that past experience of this not working, this not working, this not working. So when you talk about that hub, it used to be the that's my solution. Now I believe that everyday consumer is looking at it going, okay, I know I need to go and I know I I need I need this membership because I can't do it in my home gym. I don't have the accountability of myself in order to be able to do it. But I'll go three days a week to the gym. I'm gonna start eating better, I'm gonna track my steps off of my tracker, I'm gonna do this, that, this, that. It is a combination of things that I believe that the everyday consumer is looking at it going, I want to lose those 30 pounds and I want more energy and I want my arms to look better. It's going to take a broad spectrum of commitment and services in order to be able to get that.

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Going back on that lack of confidence I see a lack of confidence in a lot of folks that are pursuing their goals because they do have that experience in trying a variety of things. And I think very early on it was a okay it wasn't working for me from a fitness perspective but this new diet looks like it's going to get me to where I need to be and if you look at the history of time that you and I have been in this industry for a long period of time you think from a nutrition perspective the variety of things that have come in that come into um a a level of popularity that people get on board and then that gets replaced by something else and that gets replaced by something else. So I think it is a lot of what we're talking about is stimulated by this lack of confidence. The pursuit of the goals is still significant. The lack of confidence in themselves the lack of confidence in some of the solutions that are presented to them is what has shaped a lot of this. Now we've got so many different options and opportunities whether it's a boutique or a studio it's a high value, low price, it's a planet at any time they're now in every single neighborhood most people on the planet don't need to drive more than a couple of miles to get to a health club environment. And I think a lot of that has been shaped on folks looking at it from the perspective of how come I'm no longer consistent at my health club? What's going on in my world? How come I'm not waking up at six o'clock anymore with the motivation and the energy to get to the gym? What is it? And we're looking for answers. And I think in a lot of cases the answer for the everyday consumer is it's no longer convenient. I don't have the time. Oh it's too far oh that was closer to my work environment where I'm not going there every single day. And so now it is a what is going to hold me accountable? So in a lot of cases I may have the ability the expendable income to join a luxury brand environment. But I know in my head seven miles away I'll go the first month and then it's going to wear on me and wear on me and I'm only going to use the treadmill there anyway and maybe I'll get I'll uh I'll hop in the pool once but that's not going to be consistent. What is going to hold me accountable is I've got to drive past that high value low price box sitting right there. It's conveniently priced it's open 24 hours there's no excuse that's going to hold me accountable. So I think some of that going back on the lack of confidence the desire for accountability is shaping a lot of consumer decisions.

Yeah interesting and one of the things that you touched on uh was the social setting of like the 90s right like the the disco lights I think as you put it I love I love that and it just kind of brings me back into memories. How are we doing with the social like the community part of it? Like you know when I when I go to my my gym and I love to shout out to uh the whitefish wave and and uh I love that place I love going there um I don't go enough but whenever I go there I I get to interact I see people I know inevitably right small town and get to socialize and I not only do I get a good workout because you know I'm I'm kind of just getting out of the home setting right getting into the gym um but I feel a sense of community there and I don't know if that's just where I live or you know if that's the sampling size of a lot of health clubs across but how do you think we're doing on in the health club perspective how are we doing on the community and social setting piece of it because that seems to be more important than ever now that people work from home. They seem you know connected but disconnected. Like what's your what's your take on that that piece?

I think we're doing everything that we can.

Okay.

What I see in clubs when I go in and visit is I see the television screens and I see member parties and I see running groups and I see these opportunities to bring people together. We used to appreciate and respect that element of community but it was about a oh group exercise classes. There are 30 or 40 people they come every Tuesday and Thursday night and they do this particular class and sometimes you know we see them walk out and it looks like they go and get cocktails afterwards and different things along those lines. And then the bigger groups and I think a lot of the luxury brands started going forth and saying hey we're going to create these um these member outings early days of lifetime and I thought it was just ingenious that they would go forth and have babysitting for example where it would be a hey bring your kids to the club we're gonna work them out we're gonna get them super tired you can go on date night and come back and then that somewhat evolved into they would have a member party on top with the pool. And I think in the early stages of them doing this was perceived as a well you know it's a luxury brand they're charging a lot of money they can do those types of things but I think that's trickled down to where now I see it so much where there is that attempt at community. What I was going to bring up as well is that there are pockets of groups. So if you go into a health club and I'm I'm in I'm an early morning exerciser every gym I've ever been a part of I see the same people. In a lot of cases I will see them later in the community I feel like I know them I I recognize that person. How do I know them? Is it college? Is it that I work with them and it's like no I just see them in the gym every single morning. And I think what's really special about the health cub environment if you are a 6 a.m workout person, you may not talk to everybody in the gym, but you're a part of this community. You're a part of this culture where if you stop showing up people are going to look around and go, hey, what happened to that guy that was always over in that area or did that particular class? And I think that's kind of interesting too to where it's it's a very unique to the health cup industry. I don't know your name, I don't know your background, but I feel like I know you and you're a part of this overall commitment because you know what we get up at five in the morning we drink a little coffee we hop in the car and we go to the gym and we work our tails off for 45 minutes and then we go about our everyday daily life.

Yeah it's such a you know what I've always thought about the gym is that no matter what it's it's a it's a place of self-improvement.

Yes.

Right? And that that's just a very positive vibe no matter what. And it could be anybody it could be somebody who's you know been in the industry forever who's you know really high training age or it could be someone who's just you know learning like I I help people all the time on the platforms like you know they didn't maybe don't don't know how to put something you know reset the safety bar or something like that. I'm like I love it. You know I'll spot anyone it's just a really fun place to be you know on the flip side David we've talked about what's what's changed. What has not changed? What do you think has like been the core uh tenants of health clubs or large gyms that that's been the same.

Let's start with community. So so the what what we have learned is that the health club is a very special place. Five years ago people did not realize it was as special as it was and it really took COVID for for us to highlight that and teach us that because we did build out our home gyms. And we knew before that yeah everybody bought a treadmill 10-15 years ago and then it became a laundry hanger and this and that but we but a lot of folks out there really felt like COVID changed everything and and pelotons and all of these different things and now all this variety of equipment that we could build out in our basement and that is going to be the key we miss seeing people. Whether we knew them or not we miss that element. So that community whether it was from 1984 and going into uh Valley Total Fitness with the disco lights and the dancing and all of those things there was community there. There's community now as we're going back in and going, you know what I know I could hop on the bike in my basement at six in the morning and I don't have to get in my car and I don't need to warm it up and I don't need to do all of those things. But I want to go and I want to see other people and I want to feel that energy and excitement. So I don't think that has changed nor do I think it will change. I think we've learned so much in the last five years and it's given us so much confidence in building these health clubs, supporting these health clubs, growing these health clubs in communities that I don't see that changing at all. Results are key. It all goes back to results. I used to say very early on nobody is buying a health club membership to show off their friends and go, I got a membership over here. It's not a country club it is a commitment. It is a I either want to maintain the way I look and feel or I need to improve the way I look and feel and so it is about results and if people are not getting results it gets much more difficult in order to retain them as a client. And all of the benefits that come with a client early days of Valley Eric people used to come in and say I'm your favorite type of member I pay my dues every single month I never go to the club so I don't overpopulate it. And our standard answer was you're actually our worst type of member like we grow as a business when you go to our club, have a positive experience and tell the world about how you're looking and feeling the way that you do that hasn't changed at all. Unfortunately obesity rates they've changed they've actually gotten worse in the time that I've been within the industry which really makes you go back and think reflectively on what are we doing wrong? How are we getting overall worse as a country? But actually when you look at global statistics they're not getting any better. I've got now in my area of Chicago I've got I could walk to five different health clubs I could hop in and be within a five minute drive of probably 30 health club environments I've got everything at my fingertips in terms of how to look better how to feel better etc etc but yet overall we're not getting any better. We've provided all these solutions that maybe 30 years ago we would have looked at and go, boy, when we get to that level if we get to that level the world is going to change. It hasn't so we continue to do some things wrong I would say overall not necessarily as an industry but overall mankind we're not doing the type of things to be able to improve our health effectively globally. And that's concerning so that to me hasn't changed results simplicity. We talk about technology we talk about oh what new equipment is out there and different things to that degree you know it's the expression what old is what what's old is new and and we've seen these things that maybe were popular in the 70s come back and it's fundamental movements it's raising the heart rate it's full body exercise it's all of these things that doesn't change our body doesn't evolve to a point where it's like that no longer works you know get rid of the medicine ball get rid of the kettlebells get rid of free weights that doesn't work anymore it all works. And so the simplicity in terms of exercise programming in terms of equipment in terms of what it takes in order to be able to get to those results and maintain those results that hasn't changed at all. But ultimately our job is to help people get the results that they desire and very often those results are life changing. We do here in our industry and it's something that does give us fulfillment is that people come in and in a lot of cases people are coming in to join a health cut because the doctor visit led to the doctor saying okay I looked past this a few years ago here's your blood pressure here's your cholesterol here's your weight here's what I'm seeing that you need to exercise and it does get to that point where it's a I've always wanted to look better and feel better. Now my doctor is saying hey my lifespan could be affected if I'm not getting activity. And when we're able to put people in environments to where they can become successful and it may be a they joined a group exercise class that really worked they found a personal trainer that that finally gave them that motivation that they were looking for. They started going to the community events the party that they had on Thursday night and the running club and all of this combined it changes their life. It changes the people that are around them their kids their spouses and all of those things. And that hasn't changed from a fulfillment perspective within our industry it makes us love our industry that we can make that positive impact. So results driven simplicity um equipment and and uh there's some evolution there but it all comes back to fundamental exercise and movement and strength training and those types of principles.

Yeah I'm glad you brought up strength training too because that's something I've noticed and I've talked to a lot of people in the industry but there seems to be a really uh exciting uptrend in strength training. Yes. And especially uh in the the the the female population right um so what it what are your insights on that like uh obviously you're not in your head so you see that happening as well. Um but I mean well why do you think that's happening? Do you think it's just a cycle that we're going through or is there something driving it? It's phenomenal.

It it really leads into what has changed dramatically in the 27 years I've been in the industry. When I started in the industry in Bali we were building new clubs everywhere. Company was growing exponentially we were buying we bought Crunch, Gorilla Sports, all these brands and just growing and growing and and financially things thriving in such an environment. But when we were building those clubs and we were doing layouts and these spectacular facilities treadmills group exercise hide the freeway room the freeway room would be this little tiny area where it was just folks that were working on physique and bodybuilding. Put them back over there. We used to Eric we used to put bars around the freeway area and make it look almost like it was a cage that you would have to go in because the thought process was we're gonna scare everybody away this little population of males that use our clubs we're gonna scare them away. There was also a lot of focus and attention towards hey dumbbells nothing over 85 because if we go over 85 and we get to 100 then we're gonna attract that person in there's going to be throwing those around it's gonna scare everybody away. That has completely turned upside down. When I go into freeway rooms it's one of the most substantial changes that I've seen in the health cup industry is it's 50-50. It really is in some cases especially early mornings when I'm in a club some cases it's 60-40 female 70-30 female and it's not just let me pick up some dumbbells and do arm curls it is we're seeing squatting and Olympic lifts and all of this and you know you look what has changed well you know the cult or the um the CrossFit era that came in and what that was attracting and and that seemed to bring in a lot of people and I think there were a lot of people that became aspirational. We talk about referrals and what results mean and everything and all of a sudden there were folks in a lot of cases there were females that were athletes previously that were comfortable lifting free weights that all of a sudden boy oh boy look at their arms look at their body they've done amazing things in terms of looking like a true athlete not looking like they lost 30 pounds and and hard time getting energy it's strong empowered females and that became aspirational to so many people and it was a what are you doing? How do you look like that? With technology all of a sudden somebody starts talking about doing a squat or or um uh doing some type of Olympic lift and now somebody can look up on their phone and look at this Instagram influencer look at this person doing it and they look and they go wait a second I could do that too and you know what that looks pretty cool to be able to pull off in a in a health club environment. Drastic change I think it's absolutely wonderful. It's changed our layouts in health clubs it's changed our equipment selection I just get such a kick because I spent so many years designing our health clubs in terms of CAD drawings and we're going to put all this up front and now what used to be up front to draw people in is pushed to the back and people want to see free weights and they want to see things rolling around. They want to see things that look innovative and strong people and it's exciting to see.

Yeah it is I mean the only downside is it's harder for me to get a platform now. You know very true. I uh I walk in sometimes I'm like and they just added another one too at my gym and I'm like gosh I got to wait. And then I think about I'm like it's pretty cool that I get to wait. Like I'm gonna do my mobilizations I'm gonna stretch maybe have a chat uh and it's it's it's a really cool trend it's very exciting. I love to see people do it straight because I think there's very few things out there that build confidence in one's individual self than doing strength training. And obviously we know the the long-term health benefits of having you know strength and more muscle mass or just being more useful as a person right as a human being if you're stronger. So it's it's a really cool trend. Innovation man I mean you know from NASM's point of view obviously you guys are out there trying to stay ahead of the the trends the innovations educating the trainers and the coaches on on what's next to give them the tools they need to stay up to date. Innovation is happening at such a blistering pace right I had um I sat here and we talked to to talk to Garrett Marshall yesterday from Exponential on the digital side we had a long conversation about artificial intelligence a long conversation about virtual and um altered realities mixed realities uh and what that plays I mean it's so hard to keep up it's like I would imagine as soon as you guys put out an educational product the next one has already come right if not already passed. So like when you look at innovation and the rate of it um and let's maybe just because it's it's too big of a topic so maybe it's narrowed down to the smoke scope of of health clubs like what innovations are you seeing in the health club space? And maybe if you have any examples of people who you think are doing uh when I say people I mean you know businesses or chains or individuals too but you know who who's doing interesting stuff. So what do you see on the innovation side?

Let's start with the apps. Everybody has an app and apps started as a a mode of convenience to where it's a well you don't need to bring your membership card in you just show your QR code and go from there. And I look at what clubs are doing now with the apps, going back on what everybody is seeking which is that accountability right small percentage of people are like I don't need my health cub to send me a note of of that I wasn't here that week. I'm good with it. I've made a commitment to exercise the majority of people want that extra layer of accountability. I wake up at six in the morning and I'm like oh I'm gonna skip today or I'm really tired after work and those tend to snowball and grow. So apps started with the basic function and now folks are going through and tracking those workouts giving you the ability to see the fact of you got there five days this week you're getting different types of awards you're getting different types of incentives you're getting different types of promotions tied into additional services more of this AI world where it becomes a Eric Health Club knows Eric you're coming in at this particular time pretty much every single day. Now starts getting a better idea of the fact of you're gravitating to platforms. Now with our technology being able to look at that and go, okay, well the people that are gravitating to platforms tend to appeal towards these discounts that we're making in the retail store on supplements or it may be a hey we're gonna run an Olympic lifting club that's gonna start meeting at Saturdays at seven in the morning. Because you know Saturdays at six in the morning you still you see these hardcore people that are going. So different things along those lines utilizing that technology starting with the app to be able to create a more customized experience that's going to give the accountability it's going to give the community it's going to give the potential products and services that are going to help you in your journey that I find very very interesting. I think from a technology perspective in terms of something that stands out I saw the evolution of MyZone within Health Cubs where it started off and it'd say what is this crazy new technology that's going to be providing all of this innovative data, et cetera, et cetera and it was very basic in terms of what it provided you started seeing it within Health Cubs it became a phenomenal Health Cub tool to show people that hey the first step is get here. Just get here. Second step is let's get that heart rate going let's get involved in movement to where it isn't a somebody swiping in and used to see a lot of this swipe in, sit around talk to your friends, sit in the Steam room, take a shower, go I went to the health club today, there was some good to it but there was very little impact that was being made. With a group like MyZone they come in and all of a sudden on every television there's your initials there's your score there's your color coding all very simple but it was that extra motivation and I think a lot of folks looked at it From the perspective of what is that? Here's what it's providing. Once again, level of accountability. I tried this before, failed. Tried this before, didn't get to where I needed to be. Tried this before, it worked for about three months, but it didn't get me there. But now when I come in and I go into that group exercise class where I'm just working up on my own, I look up at a television screen and I see my stuff on there, that's giving me that layer. Simple technology, effective deliverable that helps stimulate what we're trying to do in HealthClub, which is make a difference, provide a solution, get people to keep on renewing that membership, but all the while looking better, feeling better, etc. etc.

Yeah, yeah, I like that. And you know, if you're gonna give a shout out to any particular uh health club innovators, you know, not uh not the technology company specifically, but any of the companies work with, I mean, you know, obviously top of mind comes is like Equinauts, um, other ones like that. But do you is there anybody doing anything particularly interesting from your purview?

All of them are doing interesting things. I'm gonna call out my home gym in particular, which is Fitness Formula in Chicago. Gail Landers runs it, fantastic representative for our industry, very involved with URSA and advocacy, et cetera, et cetera. And he has beautiful facilities that are in Chicago. We started talking about community, and I see what that community looks like ultimately in terms of what he tries to stimulate and grow. He has his ear to the ground in terms of how his facilities are built and what is showcased and what is convenient for members. What I really like and I and and what sticks out in my mind is what he's been able to do with the high school-aged student. And and and I want to bring this out because I do find it to be quite different. I have a senior in high school who lives at the FFC Club when he is not involved in his school athletics, his travel athletics, etc., etc. His friends go as well. They've created an environment that is incredibly welcoming to the 14 to 18 year old, not only during the summer, but throughout the year. There are basketball courts that they've set up to where kids can participate without, you know, get out of here, the adults are over here. They've created a workout floor where kids are more and more and more comfortable with doing workouts within freeway rooms. They've been incredibly welcoming to this population. And in turn, what's happened is that very often the high school student wants to buy a membership. The parents start going over there, and now I've never seen this to the degree that I've seen it now within Gale's FFC clubs, is that you have parents, and I've gotten into a lot of these parents, parents are over there running on the treadmill, one of them is over in the Pilates room, and the kid is back in the freeway room. The entire family is going in, and it isn't just a put the kids back into into uh into the kids club. It's a everybody is participating and exercise in a variety of different ways. So that community that extends well beyond the typical adult that's going to be paying for a membership now, it's incorporated in this younger population in a real effective fashion.

And that's that's critical. I mean, just for for the future of uh I don't want to sound dramatic, but the world, right? Like we need to get uh we need to get the youth involved. I mean, I I feel so fortunate that I got involved in sports early on. Um, you know, I I I was a I was a chubby kid, man. And if I hadn't got into swimming and then all the sports that I did, water polo and and all, I wouldn't have had that baseline of fitness, right? So it's such a critical age. It's like right in those those early teens um through high school, like if you don't get those habits built in, then it's really hard to get them later on in life. And I've seen that with so many people I've grown up with. So that's that's really encouraging, and I hope a lot of people follow that model.

I I would agree. And it and it's not only the after school or kids bored in the evening, so they're going over there and screwing around in the club. I'm an early morning exerciser. I can't tell you how many times that I've gone over during the school year at six in the morning, and I've seen a kid who's a football player and a lacrosse player, and it's during the off season, and he's over there getting 6 a.m. lifts in. Yeah. That didn't exist ten years ago. It's it's the the the culture that's been established, and and there are probably a number of different factors, but it's a from a healthcare perspective, to understand the value of that community, welcoming that community, making it an appealing environment, and the impact that has is significant.

Right on. Right on. Well, David, it's it's uh believe it or not, it's almost been 15 minutes of recording. I mean, these things go so fast, it's it's wow, especially now uh you know I get the opportunity to do it uh IRL as the kids say it. Uh it's it's really cool. I mean um this is always the question I'd like to ask Ben, but what what do you need right now? Like, how can our community help you? Is there anything uh you know that's that's initiatives that you're driving that you could use help with?

I would say this. Overall, from an NASM perspective, and this goes for education providers, certifiers, et cetera, et cetera. We live in a world that is very, very similar in terms of our health club environments, uh, in terms of fitness professionals, et cetera, et cetera. But the standards that are per put forth are quite unique and different. From a United States population, we still live in a world to where anybody can call themselves a personal trainer. Anybody can call themselves a speed agility quickness coach, a strength and conditioning coach. There's no licensure, there's no minimum education requirements. And I think it's easy for some folks to look at it and say, okay, well, I look the parts, I can kind of talk the parts, and I follow a whole bunch of people on Instagram that are doing great workouts, that the education certification process is sometimes looked past. Or in some cases, folks look at it from the perspective of, all right, I need to get certified just to get a job, and they get certified, and it's it's not required, and so it's it's a I don't need to maintain it. Other countries are surpassing us when it comes down to that value of education. So my big thing would be get certified, get advanced specialties, continue to learn. It doesn't mean, oh, go buy an NESM product and go get this advanced specialty and this this uh credential, etc., etc. It's a continually be an education seeker within our industry. From 1996, a lot of the research that we uh what we knew in 1996 is far different than what we know now. This is not a field to where it's like we've learned everything, nothing else is gonna be new. Five years from now, we're gonna have a different perspective on this. Ten years from now, we're gonna have a different perspective on this. Stay atop of the research, the evidence-based education, stay on top of follow great sources out there, become a champion of this industry, and that doesn't mean just a I'm gonna get my lifts in and look good in this t-shirt. It's about learning what's gonna help people get to their goals safely and effectively.

Yeah, I like that. And if I could add like two more things to that, I think it's you know, stay on top of the education, get the reps in. You know, a lot of people want to avoid like the uh young trainers may be adverse, I should say not avoid, but to like the health club or the typical big box gym where you get in, you do like get the reps, like get to work with a lot of clients and also get a mentor. Like that was critical for me. It's like mentors help make sense of all the experience, the education pieces, and the practical application of it all. Of course, you get to gain uh philosophy, and I think that's a lot of things that um trainer young trainers have to get on their own, is your own coaching, training philosophy and approach towards health and fitness. And I know that sounds esoteric, but it's it's really critical. Is like, well, how do you approach it? Because this is very what we do is is very uh fitness is emotional, right? It's not just programming and numbers and physiology, it's it's the human being, and you have to be able to connect with people in that way. So I think that's something else I would throw on top of that as kind of like the cherry that you know goes on top of the the cupcake, right? Uh as well.

I would I would add one thing to that, it was really well put. Confidence. We talked about member confidence in terms of losing confidence in themselves when they try a variety of different things and they don't get to their goals. Far too often within our industry, you have a passionate, aspiring fitness professional that goes through the certification process, is ready to make a commitment to this industry. Um, in a lot of cases, maybe they went three years to college and they were never passionate about it and they made this poll. They get started in a traditional health cup environment with a boutique, maybe starting their own business. They have a hard time with the confidence in the services that they're delivering. So when it comes down to it, is that, hey, I can make a difference in people's lives, but I'm not really comfortable sitting in front of somebody and saying, This is my procession rate, this is the package that I want to get you involved in. The person that tends to be passionate about this industry very often is not the best salesperson. Far too often, this wonderful advocate for our industry starts in and three months later they go, I'm not good at this. I can't do this. They don't have the confidence. Eric, you and I have been doing this for a long period of time. Nobody goes forth, works with a personal trainer, and comes back later and goes, that was a waste of time. They learn, they have that level of accountability, the people that get the results, the great personal trainers out there, they stand up in people's weddings. They get referrals, their whole entire business model is because of they've made such a huge difference in people's lives that now they're training their sister, their business partner, and uh and and their cousin who came in from out of town. All of these things. That is the heart of this business. And so for all of those folks that are going through the education process and maybe having a hard time giving it a go, find that mentor and talk to them about not only the programming, but how do you sell your services? What is the key here? How do I get more comfortable? Can I role play with you and show you how I present a package to somebody? Have that confidence. Your ability to change people's life is significant. Charging $100 per hour, people would gladly pay that if you can get them to where they've wanted to be for the last 20 or 30 years.

Awesome, man. That's that's uh that's a great ending point. And uh, David, if people want to get a hold of you, they want to connect with you. Is there any particular place you want to send them online?

Absolutely. My email address is probably the easiest way to do that. So it it is david.vandaf van capital D-A-F-F at N A S M.org. Right on.

David, thank you so much. Uh it's been really insightful. It's been fun talking to you here in the middle of all this energy idea. And uh I I love the whole team from NASM. You guys have a really great vibe. So safe travels home. Thank you for joining me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, David Van Deff. Thanks, Eric. It's been great. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.