David Magida - The Gym Operator's Guide to HYROX: Structure, Culture, and Revenue

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[00:02:50] All right, here we go. David Magida, welcome to the Future of Fitness, man. How are we doing? Good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very exciting. So, you are the, what is your exact title? You're the global head of training, right? For Hyrox. For Hyrox. Is that correct? That is correct. I took over that role in the end of November 23 and with the, initially as part-time and then full-time a few months later, the role with the goal of just taking the affiliate program that they envisioned and had begun.

[00:03:18] We had like 1800 affiliates, I think, when I started and it was like they were sending out like PDFs of workouts and it was very, very simple. And trying to, to modernize it, add tech, scale it, create a real structure. And part of the vision was like bring Hyrox to like gyms everywhere. And part of the vision was like even change the way that gyms look at Hyrox training, look at what a Hyrox, like an ideal Hyrox training space would look like and, and create.

[00:03:48] Like one of the goals we had like two years ago was like, let's create a seismic shift in the industry where like when you walk into a big gym anywhere in the world, there is a space that is designated as like a Hyrox type area. And you're changing floor plans of gyms that haven't changed in 40 or 50 years and you're, and you're basically making it normal. Like people expect to see this when they walk into gym spaces. Yeah. What a fun job, man. What a fun, fun job.

[00:04:15] I mean, there's, there's so many things that we're going to dive in today because I, you know, I've talked about the commercial aspects of, of Hyrox and center. We've gone, but I want to get really into like, okay, from, from the gym operator perspective and the coaching perspective, like what, Hey, what are the, what are the tremendous opportunities business wise? You can, you can actually make a really good living working with Hyrox, right. As a gym owner and some of the biggest brands, you know, F45 is, is recommitted more assets, you know, just this year into, into the partnership. Orange Theory is obviously involved.

[00:04:45] So a lot of major brands, but you know, more and more, I dive into the operator realm, independent operators, regional operators. They're all getting into Hyrox. The gym I go to in Whitefish, Montana recently renovated to put in like what looks like Hyrox stuff, right? They have sleds. They have a nice open area. They have all the center equipment. And this is just a small corner of the earth. So there's a lot going on.

[00:05:07] And one of the things I want to hone in on, because I think this is so critical to paint the picture is like last year, I wasn't there, but the largest Hyrox event in history, 40,000 athletes, right? At the global world championships. And for most people who go to a sporting event, if you're lucky, if you have 40,000 spectators, that's a big event, right? But to have 40,000 participants. And right now, as we speak, there's also the New York City one happening, which is 50,000 athletes and participants, right? So this is just, it's exploding.

[00:05:35] What is it like at an event like that? Because you're at the Worlds last year. Like from the ground level, describe what that feels like. So the London event was 40,000 people, which is not a world championship event. That was our EMEA championships, which is open, which is really what's cool is like anybody can theoretically sign up for that event. Like having an ungated event like that, I think is really cool. Worlds being totally different where the top 1% of the world are the only people who can go. And it's usually like 6,000, 7,000 that's capped.

[00:06:04] And we lose money on that event every year. We lose a ton of money because we spend so much to make it amazing. But I will say like this London event blew my mind because one, the run course, which normally is two or three laps, was a single lap that was a kilometer. So it's just this massive venue that you can't imagine. Incredible energy, great space to move. Like you never felt like there were 40,000 people competing. It was just so much room.

[00:06:29] And just like you could stand on top of a grandstand and look down the hall and people were like ants on the other side. It was so, it was this massive. But the energy was still just like any other high rock. It was just like overwhelming excitement out of everybody. Like the enthusiasm when you walk in. If you haven't been to one, it's like, I've always said it was like, it's like going to like a music festival, but for fitness. And so like the energy is just, I mean, my first time I walked into one, I was just like, oh my gosh, man.

[00:06:59] As somebody who's, I'm now, I've owned the gym for 12 years. Like fitness is my life. And you walk into your first race and you're just like, this is everything that I have been looking for and everything that I've been needing to like put in front of my athletes to give them purpose. And so I remember I walked out of there my first, after my first race in 2021, and I went back to my gym and I had a high rocks program up and running like two weeks later. And it was like four people.

[00:07:25] And then within a few months, it was 20 something people, even though none of them had raced. I had to have, and there were no races to run. They were like flying to like LA from DC to do races. They're flying 3000 miles to go do a race they'd never even heard of. And then the next thing you know, we get one in DC and I've got 150 people from my tiny little gym training or racing at this thing. And it's just, it's taken off.

[00:07:48] It's been like, it's become like the center of everything at my gym, the center of culture, the center of like attraction in terms of like bringing bodies in the door became the center of like, you have different types of members at your gym. You know, you have like the, you have the people who are just coming because they want to sweat. And then you have the people who are coming because they're just having fun. And then you have the people who are coming because they're like, I trained with like a very specific goal and purpose. And those people all found each other in this High Rocks program because they're all training with this shared purpose and the shared goal.

[00:08:18] So now they're like a little cohort. They're like a little team, except it's, you know, half the people that go to my gym. And so they're all, you know, checking each other splits and taking photos of each other at events and their WhatsApp groups together. And like you're there, they're planning weekend group runs. And it's, it's been a really cool thing. I think it really revived my business post COVID. I mean, I could go, I could speak for forever on that, but like to your point, like the energy in them, it's race day. It's amazing to have, right?

[00:08:46] Like it's, it's this thing that you, you think it's a light bulb for a lot of people when they go in like, wow, this is what I've been needing to be like training for and not just exercise. And then at the same time, like it comes back with you afterward. And then it just like, is it's just a part of your gym's identity. It just takes on something else. So it's been like a cool ride to have that happen in my, from, from me personally, and then share it with my people and then have it happen to them. And then all of a sudden it blows up in my gym. And then all of a sudden I'm in this role with high rocks and it like, I'm, I'm riding the wave, man.

[00:09:16] It's been, it's been amazing. Yeah. That's great. You know, I, I guess here's a question we can start off with is, you know, if I'm an operator and I'm, I'm thinking about, I'm listening to this. I'm like, God, I feel like I, I'm missing the boat on something here, or maybe I'm already participating in it. Right. But for those who are considering it or starting to look into it, like what, what do you think an operator needs to know while they're considering, you know, bringing high rocks into kind of their formulaic offerings? Like how far can they, do they need to commit? Can they put one foot in? Does it need to be jumping with both feet?

[00:09:45] Like what, where they, what do they need to be considering and thinking about? I mean, you can crawl, walk, run anything, right? Like it's, it's, it's never smart to be like, I'm going to go out and spend 150 grand on equipment, like with no idea what you're doing. Like definitely like dabble a little, like see what the interest is with your members. Don't send out a survey, like go out and start doing some classes and things like that.

[00:10:05] But I mean, you, you have to come at it with a level of authenticity and that means you got to go out and do a race, you know, or have your head coaches or whoever's like kind of, kind of leading the charge on that, that they need to kind of, it's a sport. It's not a fitness program. So they need to understand it. They need to, they need to know what it feels like to do the event and you know what it feels like to train for the event. You can't like consumers are not stupid. They're going to see right through you. If you're just like throwing something out there and you have no clue what you're talking about and you don't have any passion for it.

[00:10:34] Like you got to get into the trenches a little bit or whoever's going to be your face of that program, your high rocks hero, your high rocks head coach, whatever. They've got to be kind of all in and passionate about it. And then you can start tackling, you know, do I want to lay my gym out a little bit more for high rocks? And do I want to buy all the center equipment and all that stuff? Because there, I mean, when you talk about authenticity, like that is part of it too. Like the number of people who walk in my jet, a woman come in yesterday for her first day and she was like, I can't believe you have all of this stuff.

[00:11:03] Like she was blown away by that. But then when push comes to shove, it really is about the program, the community, the excitement, the bringing it back to the race in terms of like, oh, we're doing this exercise. This is because this is going to improve my burpees or my wall balls or whatever. And so a lot of it is, it's, it's authenticity that lives in all these different areas. Like if you don't have that, you're not going to have a successful high rocks program. Like you can, you can slap high rocks on the schedule all you want. It takes actually doing it right.

[00:11:33] It's the, can I curse on here? Am I allowed to curse on here? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Just make sure. Yeah. The thing I always call is the give a shit factor. Like they need to know that you give a shit. And if you're like super into it or your people who are leading it are super into it, like that is going to be infectious. Yeah. You know, I look at like the, the way I'm sure a lot of gyms maybe have just provided the space. Right. That's kind of like, you know, I guess that's, that's the crawl, right? Like, Hey, we're just going to get a little bit of equipment. We're going to provide a space and see what happens.

[00:12:01] But I feel like this is something that it needs to be coached. Like it needs to be integrated into the, into the programs. Like I don't just think providing a space because you know, like you don't just provide a CrossFit space and people go do CrossFit. It just doesn't work like that. That's a, I mean, if they do like that, I can't recommend it. It's probably not a good thing to do, but same with high rocks. Like it's not, it's not as technically demanding, but still like, I think people need some coaching, right? So they need some, some structure around it.

[00:12:28] So, you know, where, where do you start with like, like, is it, I presume we could talk about like what the optimal is. It's like fully committed, right? Like, you know, there's, there's high rocks classes going all the time. Then there's kind of the middle grade. So walk us through like different options that you think still work. I think the biggest mistake the average consumer makes is that they think like, well, like the movements aren't that complicated. I can just coach myself. Right. And then they, they come to an actual serious high rocks class and they're like, oh, like there's a light bulb.

[00:12:54] But, but you as a gym owner, coach, I mean, you can start with a crawl that is as simple as, you know what, we're going to put one high rocks class on the schedule a week. And it's kind of more like more around that, like pure kind of high rocks stimulus. And you can start there. Like we see a lot of like functional fitness boxes start that way. They're like, we're going to keep all our regular programming. We're just going to have this one special Saturday or Sunday week where we throw in a high rocks class and maybe it's longer.

[00:13:22] And we, we, we gear it a little bit more towards endurance. That's like a starting place for a lot of gyms. A lot of other gyms, like the way I tell people is like, we have an entire program that we've developed here. It's our methodology. In much the same way as like functional fitness, oxes tend to be geared toward like a little more emphasis on power and then like stretching it over time. You know, high rocks, if you look at who thrives in the sport of high rocks, it is definitely an endurance sport first.

[00:13:49] And then you have, you add strength later. So we're much more invested in improving aerobic capacity, improving lactic threshold, improving muscular endurance and getting stronger as you go, as you improve your skills. So definitely we, we structure things where from a baseline standpoint, if you were to take our entire program, which is four overall offerings of classes, class structures. I'll give those to you first. Then I'll tell you kind of how I would optimally roll it out in phases. We have our foundational class.

[00:14:18] Foundational is going to be like very good, like general population, all timed intervals, touches a ton of different modalities of fitness. It's kind of like you get a little bit of hit, you get a little bit of, you might do some plyometrics or some strength training and then some running and then push a sled and then do some skiing and, uh, and then do deadlifts. Like you touch a little bit of everything. And it's a great opportunity to, to kind of low barrier to entry, get someone who's like this high rocks thing sounds really intimidating.

[00:14:46] Like kind of just get them into a class, introduce them to a wall balls, introduce them to some stuff and, and be like, oh yeah, I could do this, you know? And so it also is just good for just raising overall baseline of fitness because like the general fitness consumer out there is not very fit. I think a lot of us live in our little bubble of fitness where our gym, everybody's pretty fit and knows what's going on.

[00:15:09] But like when a stranger walks in off the street and they're absolutely terrified to be seen exercising in front of a group of people, for example, you need to be able to kind of bring them in gently and build their comfort level and build their confidence and build their competency. And so this is an amazing program for that, but at the same time, because it's all timed intervals, like they can be in, they can work out right next to me and we both can get a super high quality session in because we control our own intensity.

[00:15:36] So foundational, great starter class. Um, then we have engine engine is built around running and erg work with a little bit of strength kind of injected in there, but you're working on aerobic capacity, lactic threshold, muscular endurance.

[00:15:50] And so the workouts are getting people kind of more familiar with working, you know, a little bit more zone three, some zone four, and you're, you're kind of just grinding and try to make it normalize this for people because those are really important workouts for high rocks. Then we have power. Power is going to be really built around dumbbells, kettlebells, sleds, sprint work on the erg's, but never like any long stuff, no running.

[00:16:15] And, and the whole idea is like, you know, you're building the necessary strength for high rocks, right? So you're doing deadlifts and split squats and, you know, rack squats and thrusters and whatever else you might be doing. And then finally, and then, and then we have no kind of visceral response to that. Yeah. No, I mean, but you're, but you're doing, you're doing like functional strength work that is applicable to the amount of strength necessary for the race.

[00:16:42] And then you are getting a little bit of conditioning, but more on the muscular endurance side. And then you're closing it out. You have what we call complete, which is that like high rocks stimulus closest thing to a race experience or race stimulus class. And generally it's like longer blocks, maybe some longer intervals stuck in there.

[00:17:01] A lot of transitioning from like skill work to aerobic or anaerobic to aerobic back and forth, because that is a style of training that I think a lot of people are not familiar with or their bodies are not prepared for in high rocks. So it also means that each of those classes has like a very distinct and different feel, not just like from a stimulus perspective, but also like experientially for your members. They're just structured very differently.

[00:17:26] And so you can start to take those things and help somebody kind of curate a more personalized experience for their needs. So one, I would, I do want to add that we don't just offer the classes. We now are producing progressive programs. So like you're, you're building people up in phases where they're like establishing a base level of strength and a base level of endurance. And then after like four or five weeks, they're moving into more like muscular endurance and lactic threshold.

[00:17:52] And then you sharpen them up for like three weeks and you're giving them like intensity work and power and explosiveness. And then you're putting deload weeks in there. And those deload weeks have some fitness tests and like everything is being designed to build them up. And smart coaches are going, you know what, I'm going to take this program and I'm going to, it's 13 weeks. I'm going to put it 13 weeks out from our, from our home race that's coming up. And we're going to have a, you know, we're going to have a trade program for it.

[00:18:19] And if you think about 13 weeks and you could fit exactly four of those into a 12 month year, it's like exactly 52 weeks divided by four is 13. And so you, you can run four full cycles a year. You could repeat a cycle. You'd go back to it. You could take a member who you've said, Hey man, like, you know, Eric, you and I, we are not, we are not the same athlete. Right. Eric, what is, what would you say? Like without having to put you through a battery of fitness tests right now, right?

[00:18:47] We're going to figure out like what, what program or what structure would be good for you. So like I could ask you some qualitative questions right away. I'd be like, Hey Eric, on a scale of one to 10, how do you rate your running? Are you asking? Yeah. I'm asking. Seven. I would normally say eight, but I'm dealing with an injury. Okay. Oh, you're really good though. On a scale of one to 10, how do you rate your strength? My age, dude, I think I'm doing all right. I'm going to say like seven. Okay. All right. And on a scale of one to 10, how about your high rock skills? How are you feeling about those? Oh, I have no idea.

[00:19:16] I mean, probably like a four. Yeah. All right. So like I could take a person like you and I'm like, all right, you're already pretty balanced. You're in pretty good shape. I might put you on what I would call like a complete track and we're going to do, you know, maybe once a week, you're doing a foundational class and you're doing for one phase, we're going to rebuild your running for a little bit. So we're going to, uh, we're going to go and put you on a little bit of engine work into two engine classes a week. And you're going to do a complete class. And I've given you a structure. I'd take another guy.

[00:19:45] He's like, yeah, man, my running is an eight, but my strength is a four. And I'm like, cool, man. And let's put, let's make sure that instead of two of those engine classes, we give you two of those power classes instead. You know, you still guys, you still get to jump in together for those complete sessions. You still get to jump in together for that foundational session. And maybe you guys go for a run on the weekend. So you're basically able to say, Hey man, you have all these class offerings. One class to me, one class does not make like a high rocks program.

[00:20:12] You need to have the right things for the right people. So like Eric, you and I now have different protocols. We're going to bump into each other in a few of those sessions a week. And then we're going to have our own assignments that we have. And I think that that's a really smart way for a good gym operator to go about it. It's like, you've done a few things. You've actually guaranteed the person's going to have a bit more success by not just being in a completely generalized program, even though it is a group program.

[00:20:37] You have provided them with what they're going to feel is a really curated and personalized experience, even though all you really did was listen to a few answers and put them in a different bucket than someone else. And then you have the ability on top of that, the really good coaches are going, Hey, let's I also have some homework assignments. So like, are you kind of more of a novice in this category? Are you more advanced novice guys? I need you to run like two days a week, more advanced. You're going to run three to four days a week.

[00:21:06] You know, you can add some lifts during your open gym time, like make sure you're doing your five by fives, whatever it might be. Right. So you have the ability to then kind of upsell to more personalized coaching or just provide a little more so that you're better than the guys down the street. And that, and, and that I think is a really important like distinction because you brought up Orange Theory and F45 and we do have a lot of big corporate gym partners because we are an open ecosystem.

[00:21:34] Like anybody who wants to train high rocks, we, we welcome it. Like we want to be the biggest sport in the world, but you as a small gym owner, like your advantage, like you have disadvantages, right? We don't necessarily have saunas and steam rooms and cold tubs and, uh, and you know, whatever else. Right. But what we do have is amazing communities. We have, and we have agility, right? Meaning like a big gym chain, a thousand locations. They can't just turn the ship overnight. Right.

[00:22:03] It's like this long process. And if you're this, if you own one gym, three gyms, five gyms, whatever, but it's yours, you control it. You have the ability to just be like, to just turn it on. Hey, this is what we're going to do. This is how we're training our coaches up for it. This is the program we're running. These are the other things we're doing to compliment it. Like, this is the culture we're establishing. Like you can just go. And that, I mean, that gives you a massive, massive advantage because right now the industry is, this is a seismic shift in the industry.

[00:22:30] And like, you can resist it all you want, but the reality is like, this is now the mainstream. This is what people are identifying with and want to start training for. And you can either, what is it, man? You can either, you can either get on the bus or you can get left behind. And if you don't have the program, they're going to go buy someone who does. Or he can get run over. But, but like, if you don't have a high rocks program, people that want to run that race are going to go out and find it from someone who does.

[00:22:57] Or if you're not doing a good enough job with it, they're going to go out and find a place that's where they know their friends are getting results. And, and it's just the reality of the situation. So like the best thing you can do is like, take the time, be really thoughtful, curate a program, buy some equipment that actually like represents the race, use your space well with it, and then build a culture and a community. Like do in gym high rock style events and challenges and organize, like, you know,

[00:23:27] run a training program that ends with a race and has an end of season party and make the people feel like they're part of a team because they're athletes competing in a sport. They're not just exercising. And like, do these things, man. Like this is, it's not rocket science, but it's the above and beyond stuff that a lot of people just aren't necessarily doing and go differentiate yourself. That was well done, man. That was just a really solid overview of how this thing can look tangibly within a gym setting. And I think, you know, you and I were talking pre-recording and something comes up a lot is like,

[00:23:57] there is a, definitely the middle space of, of gym operators is getting squeezed right now in the current setting. Like HVLPs are getting cheaper and offering more. They're bringing more boutique experiences, especially Pilates kind of under the roof. And then the high end is getting higher, right? They're starting to offer medical services. They're offering all, like everything, like lifetime. If I had one near here, I would love to join one because it sounds amazing, right? Like I have friends who go to over and are like, oh my God, it's got that too. But it's not a gym, it's a country club, right?

[00:24:25] That's their, that's their whole thing, right? Yes, exactly. Exactly. But that's what I'm saying is like in the middle, it's getting hard to kind of differentiate. But I think this is one of the biggest opportunities and levers you can pull right now is getting on board because, dude, I even noticed it. Like I can see like the little packs of High Rocks people in my gym, right? Like when I'm done with my morning workout, I'm usually stretching and I see this little group. And they, they look like CrossFit athletes, but without all the tattoos, essentially. And there's a lot of tats in High Rocks. The Kinesio tape.

[00:24:56] Yeah, I'm sure there is. I got like the Kinesio tape, right? They got all the gear, they got all the stuff going on. And I'm like, they're definitely, I know they're treating for High Rocks. And you know, what you laid out, I think there's just a lot of options, right? There's a lot of ways to get in this cat, you know, depending on what your community is. You know your community better than anything. Totally. You know your, you know, where you live, you know all of it. So like starting to, you know, thoughtfully integrate this in a way and testing it out. But I also want to wait too long. Like you got to kind of move with this because it's, it's, it's going fast. What about the coaches?

[00:25:25] Like you mentioned, yeah, having high quality coaches. What does that look like? The education, obviously I agree they should go out and do an event if they're going to be coaching and they should know what that experience is. They should be able to speak, you know, from a personal note of like, okay, when you flip to this section of the race, you're going to be feeling this, right? You know, they have to be able to explain it in a way that they know it really well. So how do you work the coaching angle? This has been something that's been really important to me because we didn't, we've been like building certifications as we go.

[00:25:53] So, you know, I think the one thing that I think most people need to recognize is we started as an event and we added a methodology after. And so like all of this stuff is being built, like we're already, the plane is up in the air and we're building it. But we have been really thoughtfully trying to establish an education protocol and an education platform that is going to work for maintaining a level of credibility for coaches around the globe and being really scalable.

[00:26:19] And so it started with our foundations course, which was like, hey, if you're going to coach high rocks classes at all, you are, you are required to have the foundations course. Now, fortunately it's free. So you just go out and do it. And at a bare minimum, you are able to explain the race, how it's structured, what the events are, how to coach those things at a basic level, right?

[00:26:43] I'm not asking you to be an absolute expert in how to, how to open up and clean out a skier or anything like that. But like the basics of like, hey, how, how do I coach the structure of this movement? Okay. How do I teach them how to hinge in this movement? And how do I teach them how to generate power and, you know, where their hand position is and stuff, right? At a basic, basic level. Then we have our level one. It's our performance coaching certification.

[00:27:10] Level one is not free, but it is unbelievable the amount of sports science and data that goes into it. Because when we look at this, like high rocks is not just a licensed fitness program. That's, that's not what we are, right? This isn't, this isn't adding like a step class or something like you are training people for a race. You need to understand a lot of the other stuff, the deep knowledge. And so I think every, every single gym should have at least one person who is level one

[00:27:38] certified, who, when members come up with like real legitimate questions, it's things like what kind of footwear should I wear? My race is at 6 PM. How do I eat for that today? Like I'm, I'm used to training at five in the morning. What's like, what's my taper supposed to look like? And on and on and on, like all these questions, like you have legitimate answers to them. And so you at least have somebody at the gym that you can be like, Hey, like for like advanced questions, go talk to Eric because Eric is our like high rocks head coach. He's our head.

[00:28:08] He's our high rock specialist. Like he's going to be able to break down. And that allows you to sell performance coaching as well, which is like, you know, you should always be like, look, don't nickel and dime them, but like you should always be looking for upsell opportunities. It's just the reality of running a fitness, you know, establishment. I just got back from Germany a couple of weeks ago where we were filming our new, our newest course, which is coming, which is our group X light course, which is, basically we're going to require this too. It's going to be bundled into the foundations course for anybody who wants to be a high

[00:28:38] rocks coach. And it's going to be a short course online that teaches you everything you need to know about how to use our performance hub, which is where all of our workouts are housed, our in gym events and fitness testing, our progressive programs, how it operates, how to cast workouts up with our digital whiteboard. So you don't have to be writing things down on a whiteboard anymore. And, but also what it means to how, how to cue people in the various different ways of cueing.

[00:29:04] When my cue in the entire room and individual across the room and individual one-on-one, and then we start getting into like the art of performance and like what that means as a coach to be like, you, you are, you're kind of the star of the show as a coach. And so, you don't just get up there with your hands in your pockets with bad body language and, you know, speak in a monotone. It's teaching people how to, how to speak performatively.

[00:29:28] So that's projecting and using pitch and timing and volume and, and comedy and body language and everything. And so there's a lot of these elements that are coming into it as well, but it's at a basic level. What will come next soon? And that will be our goal is to get that out by July. So we're, we're cranking. What will come next will be a group X pro course, which is going to be like our advanced. Now you're going to be looking, you know, how to spot compensations, how to correct those

[00:29:58] things, like modifications for tons of base movements and on and on and on. So there's, there is an opportunity to take coaching and really go to a premier level. And the nice thing that, that I've said as like a gym owner is I was like, I can't wait for this to be out so that I can tell all the coaches that train at my gym that I own. Hey, uh, we don't need to meet for like 20 hours to train you up anymore. You can just take this course, like go, here you go.

[00:30:27] I paid for this course for you. Go, go get started. And like, to me that that's like the most exciting thing because I find one of the most challenging things to do is to train up good coaches and the amount of time and care that it takes to like get them to a level where you're like comfortable with taking the training wheels off and, and like letting them be the face of your business is a really, really difficult thing. And it's the thing that I've found as I've walked into gyms like all over the world in

[00:30:54] the last couple of years that like there is the widest variance on quality levels. And so we've been trying to take that and like, let's create a minimum standard that like, if you can't be here, you really shouldn't be coaching high rocks and we'll go from there. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the thing, right? Is scaling quality is really difficult. In the coaching space, you know, I, it's funny. I got a text message from my nephew last night and he's like, Hey, do you, cause I, you know, I was in a CrossFit for a while and it's like, do you, would you recommend CrossFit? And I was like, well, that's not a simple text message, man.

[00:31:24] And I'm like, you know, it depends is always my first answer. And then I told him, you know, well, here's, here's the biggest thing. I think you would do great at it, but you got to find a great, you know, a solid gym with solid coaching. And that's hard to find. I can help you find that because you have to know what to ask. Right. Because that was one of the biggest things about CrossFit is like you could go to one gym, have an amazing experience. You could travel somewhere, walk on another one and it's a total, you know, shit show. Like there's, you know, no attention to detail. It's dangerous. It's dirty.

[00:31:50] Like it just, but there was no quality control mainly because of the model, which was an affiliate model. I think you guys are doing something similar, which is, which is challenging. You can go fast. It provides a lot of room for operators to. The future of fitness podcast is proudly brought to you by eGym in an industry full of noise with more features, more screens, more promises. EGym is focused on something far more meaningful progress that counts.

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[00:33:12] It's progress you can see, measure, and repeat. To learn more, please visit eGym.com. They express themselves creatively and they know their communities. They're like, there's trade-offs to every model, but I think that's something that as you guys are scaling really fast, it's probably going to be one of the biggest things that probably keeps you up. Yeah. I mean, I've been beating the drum of wanting this Group X program for like a year and a half. I was like, we need this like yesterday. Once you've opened Pandora's box, it's really hard to put it back in the bottle, right?

[00:33:41] So just getting to a baseline level is a really, really, it's a really important thing to us. It's a very important thing to me. I want everybody to be able to look at a whiteboard of a workout and know how to present it the same way, right? We go top down from a parameters perspective, right? It's the overall time. It's the focus of the block. It's the timing scheme. Here's the movements. Here's how you introduce them. Here's any special nuance in this workout. Here's how it's going to feel.

[00:34:09] Okay, here's how I split my group up. Let's get to it. And so there's a process. And if you can tell you like, okay, everybody knows how to read the workout. Everybody knows how to present them. Everybody knows how to teach the movements. Everybody knows how to properly cue. Like you're like, okay, box check, box check, box check. Everybody knows. And I mean like, and for a lot of your listeners here, I'm sure they feel this way. Like your people who are coming into your gym are like, they have hard jobs. They have kids. They have whatever else is going on in their lives is tough.

[00:34:38] And their expectation is like the best hour of their day is going to be there with you. And so you need to ensure that like anybody who's up there is giving them, is able to kind of hold that standard of like this. Okay, this is the best hour of my day. This didn't suck. And also I authentically believe this coach knows what they're doing, which is huge. Yeah. You know, they could be a little green, you know, that's fine. But like, do they at least have a clue? And so we start there and then like, can they keep people safe?

[00:35:07] Can they, can they help people get better? You know, this is, we've set the groundwork to enable us to do this where we're going to look back three years from now and be like, wow, we really reigned this thing in, in a nice way. And so what, all I ask is everybody who's running a program is like, get yourself and all your people through these certs, man, because it's not like we're asking you for money for the, for the level, I mean, for the foundational course in the GX light. We're literally saying like, just do this. You can only benefit from it. What about equipment, David?

[00:35:33] I mean, that's something, you know, it, you do have to, you have to invest because like sleds, right? Certain things and center has their, you know, very specific, like that's, that's the equipment partner of High Rocks officially. And I know they've done very detailed things to make their equipment High Rocks competition ready. Right. Kind of the official thing. Like I've talked to Andrew about this numerous times, like whether it's the knurling on the, on the, on the, on the grips, right. Or whatever it may be to be very specific, but there's probably some things that most gyms have. So like when you start looking at the investment level on the equipment side, like where do

[00:36:03] you suggest most people start and then kind of grow into? I mean, you need the sleds. I mean, that's a, that's a given we look at, you know, I think it's easy to look at a sled and be like, no, sled's a sled. But the reality is like every sled pushes differently because the way the weight is dispersed. And like the old High Rock sleds push totally different than these sleds. These sleds were designed specifically for the race as all their equipment, right? They designed it. They were like, we have like a plan in mind. We make it and it's race specific.

[00:36:31] And as opposed to just making a piece of equipment and then putting it into a race. And so I think from the perspective of like just using, like simulating the race day experience, my people are very excited about it. Like it matters to them. The other, the other big thing with it is like when you walk in a gym and you're a person who's like, I need to find a gym to train for High Rocks. And you walk in and all the equipment says High Rocks all over it. And you know, it's like the actual stuff. Like there, it goes back to authenticity to me.

[00:36:58] It's like, again, if I walk into a gym and the coach doesn't know what the hell they're talking about, I already am like, okay, you're not really a High Rocks gym, right? Well, you are, but like, are you right for me? Probably not. If I walk into a gym and they don't have, they're like, yeah, we have a High Rocks program, gave the equipment. I'm like, you're not really, you're a fitness program and you're, you're whatever you are that has made you great. And is what gets your people to come back to you because you obviously are doing something right.

[00:37:25] But if my, you know, it's, it's like, wouldn't go to basketball camp at a place that didn't have basketball hoops. And like, you know, like if they're not playing with, like if they're not playing with like the ball that I'm going to be playing with in my games, like that's kind of weird. Like if you ever got, if you ever played pickup basketball and you get one of those like knockoff balls that has like, it's like, doesn't even feel like it's like, feels like it's made of like a weird rubber. Yeah. Like you're like with all the little bumps on it and you're like, uh, this isn't going to actually be how I train.

[00:37:54] And so I just look at it the same way to me. It's like, just, just train with what you're going to race with and feel that. And as a gym owner, like it's such an easy, like if the prices are going to be relatively similar anyways, why would you not want the thing that's kind of advertising your program for you and like helping you literally sell memberships when people walk in the door? Like, it's kind of like affiliation, like, well, you know, our affiliation is so inexpensive that like you get one member and it pays for like the entire year of affiliation. So it, the whole idea is like, it's the same with the equipment.

[00:38:23] And there's there, I've learned enough in my life and it, you know, it's funny. I'm listening to people go up and down my stairs right now because we went cheap on our, our upstairs bathroom and now we're getting renovated. Right. And so it's like, it's very poignant in this very moment, David. And cause I'm just, every time I hear him like, oh, there's a check that I'm writing. But anyway, you can do it cheap, right? You can try to cut a couple dollars. Like I did this in my gym, I would buy cheaper equipment. And back in the day when I was operating as a CrossFit gym, Rogue was the brand. Right.

[00:38:50] It was like, if you got, you might as well, like, I wish now that for all the money I spent on equipment, I just went and got the right brand right away. The one that aligned with the sport, right. Really well. And I feel like center is that to high rocks in this moment where it's like, yeah. Okay. If people are really starting to get into it and they're considering high rocks and they, and they walk in, they see high rocks and center in the brand, in the space. They can say, okay, they invested in the quality, right? They're on board. They take it serious. You know, Chinese knockoff or something like that, or something that's like kind of looks like it, but it doesn't feel right. It's a little flimsy.

[00:39:19] Like people notice these things and it's not worth it. It's like, just go get the right things. And I think, you know, probably sled. I would imagine you need the ergs, right? You're just going to need the ergs. Yeah. And then like, you know, treadmills become, I mean, a treadmill is such a big investment. Like I'm never like, oh yeah, go out and just like buy a dozen treadmills to get such an aggressive move. But like, you'll know when the time is right to do something like that. Like, you know, and, and what I will say, like just the amount of time I've spent like working with those guys over at center.

[00:39:47] Like if you're, every jam I've talked to, it's been like, I want to do a setup. Like, can you connect me with someone? And I introduce them to someone over there. And then they end up like doing your floor plans and layouts and like basically, basically architecturally designing it for you and saving you all that time and money, which is also pretty significant. Like to me, like the amount of money that I have spent historically on like architects for this stuff that I could have just had someone do it for free. It's like kind of crazy.

[00:40:14] Like, like I think, I think I've spent like 40 grand on architects over the years for like mapping out floor plans for gyms. And I'm like, what the heck? I cannot believe that I like was that dumb. Sorry to the architects out there. But like, this is the thing. Like I, we, we had a meeting with center, like, I don't know, like a year and a half ago. And I was like, we were basically like, look, man, like you guys are, you guys are in the solution space and like, like gyms of all kinds want to have high rocks programs.

[00:40:42] And so like, you need to not just provide equipment, you need to provide solutions to them. So we, so they like went and like hired a team of people like who like literally their job is to like take the blueprints of your space and map everything out. Like what would be the most like effective system? And I spent like dozens of hours training those guys on like, here's how I would like that space to look. And now can you like make it perfect with like computer software? And like, it's, it's pretty amazing, man.

[00:41:10] Like honestly, now those guys can like turn it around for you like, like that, which is really nuts. That's smart. That was really smart. Because once you get engaged in that process and you start getting people to envision what their gym will look like when it's transformed, it's like they're on board, right? Like you're getting people to visualize it and it's like, yeah, that's a really strong sales process. And though one, those guys, like, like we spent a ton of time like training up their teams to understand like what our program was. And I was like, every one of these spaces that you're going to design, like if you don't

[00:41:40] design it to make this program work perfectly, then you're wasting everybody's time. So, so they're like very, they're dialed in. Like everything they're doing is like working hand in hand with like our official programs too, which is really, really cool. You know, the last question we'll get into is, and you know, it's probably, we don't have enough time to dive into it fully, but you know, I talked to Cody McBroom yesterday and in the conversation prep I had, I was looking through some of his interviews and he works with a lot of coaches and trainers.

[00:42:06] He mentors them and he was, some of the podcasts were like, you know, someone started working with High Rocks made a hundred thousand dollars in six months. Right. Like, so when I'm getting, I was like the money's real, like, give me an idea. Like it's not just like the branding. Yeah. So give me an idea. Like how, like, how is this transforming gym owners and operators lives for the better? I mean, I'll give you an example. Like when I launched High Rocks, like at my gym, one of the things that we did, like I run a boutique studio, right?

[00:42:32] Like normally classes are like 20 to 30 people depending on the format and usually even less. And we were like, okay, High Rocks feels like very special to me. I went and launched it as more of like a smaller group program. And then I had to keep making it bigger because it got so popular, but we were able to charge like essentially like an add on membership for people. So like you, people were essentially paying you like double membership to be able to train. Now I'm not telling everybody that's listening to do that.

[00:42:59] I'm just saying like you have like this massive monetization opportunity from that standpoint, which is like increasing your overall value per member. And then secondarily, like it's just like an amazing prospecting tool. Like the amount of people that come into my gym, we run ads for like our regular group programs for our, we have a powerlifting program. We have a High Rocks program. And my ads for the High Rocks program outperform the other ones like three to one. It's like insane. Yeah. Because people are looking, okay, I signed up for this race. Like what? Yeah.

[00:43:29] And then once they, and once you, no, it's going to sound crude, right? But like once you have your hooks in them, like these people, they're not just running one race. Like they're all running so many races because they're going, okay, I'm going to try like a doubles race with my wife or my friend or whatever. And then they're like, okay, we're going to try and beat that time in the next race. And then all of a sudden they're like, I'm going to run a, I'm going to run an individual race. I want to try it. And then they want to beat that time. And then they're like, okay, now it's time to try pro weights, but I'm kind of scared. So I'll start with doubles.

[00:43:59] And then they do, they want to beat that. And they go to eventually, they work their way up to individual, like pro, pro race. And now they're like full fledged. Like it's their identity. They're like going to bed at 8 PM so they can get up and work out. And they're, you know, they've cut alcohol out of their diet because they're like, I need to, like my body's a temple. Like all of a sudden it's crazy what happens to these people. And you're like, every time they re up for another race, you've got them for another six months. And it's, it's like insane, man.

[00:44:27] But it also like just revives your culture in a way where like these people like super inviting to other people because it's, it becomes like this little cohort of people at your gym. And so they become like your best ambassadors for bringing their friends and the people, when you have a new prospect who comes in, you're like, Hey Matt, can you partner with this person? So like, so you, you, you know, who's going to like one, know their stuff and to like authentically want to make someone feel comfortable. Like, Hey, be part of our cult. We're like in a little cult, be part of it.

[00:44:55] And so it really, it's super helpful for all that stuff. So it helps your sales process. It helps your retention because nobody wants to leave that little family that they've started. And then you can do like, you know, in gym cops and activations and things that we have that like basically just help keep your members super engaged and excited. And, and so to me, it's like, it has, it is probably responsible for 50% of the revenue of my gym right now. Yeah. It's nuts. It is nuts.

[00:45:22] And, and it's, it is not shown any signs of slowing down. It is accelerating. That is the really cool thing. I mean, like hardest thing to do for us has always been like bodies in the door. And it is just like a constant revolving door of just like new bodies coming in going like, like Tyrox, like I need to train. I heard this is the place to train. So anecdotally for me and quantitatively, like I, I, I have the data that proves it, but also just, I see this, you know, we have over 15,000 affiliates globally right now.

[00:45:51] Like, and you know, what I have seen is, you know, this is, this is growing rapidly. Actually, let me see. How many do we have at this exact moment? That's a great question. We are about to hit 16,000. It is growing so fast. I can't even like keep up with the numbers. So I just mean this to say, like, if you're, if you're, it's never too late, but you're letting other people steal your prospects if you're not doing it. That's awesome. Well said, man. All right, brother, this has been great. And I think this is a really nice full introduction.

[00:46:18] My goal was like, okay, if I'm an operator and I want to know about what I need to get, need to know about getting involved with High Rocks, I need to listen to one podcast episode. What would it be? It would be this one, right? Like this is the one I want. Probably okay. Yeah. Yeah. What do you need help with? So I ask everyone on this, on the show, but like, what do you, what do you need help with right now, David? You know, if people are going to reach out to you, what would you like to hear from them about, you know, as an industry, how can we support you? Personally, I'm always trying to improve as a leader, right?

[00:46:45] So for me, it's, it's, you know, I have some friends who are in these, like, they're almost like business leaders groups and things like that. And I'm always like, I don't know if I have the time to do this, but like, I think everybody could use like business coaching, leadership coaching, things like that. So I'm always like, I'm always keeping an ear to the ground for stuff like that. Like to me, I know I could do a better job leading my people, managing my people, stuff like that.

[00:47:10] I'm not really running my gym per se anymore, but I am still making like macro decisions there and still coaching a little bit. And I'm always, I'm always looking for ideas and, and, and help on that front. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have some ideas. We'll talk offline. Cool. David, if, if people want to reach out to you or follow you, or there's a one specific place you want them to go after they listen to this, where would you like them to go? Well, I mean, you can definitely go to highrocks.com to sign up for an affiliation. It's very, very easy.

[00:47:40] Should be in the upper right hand corner, I believe. But outside of that, you could follow my Instagram at David McGeeta. You can find me on LinkedIn. You know, I'm, I'm pretty easy to reach as long as you're not asking for like a huge, huge favor. So, and you can always, and you can always approach me at an event or anything like that and talk to me about your experiences and what you're looking for. Like, I mean, I think feedback is the other thing. Like, like I'm not looking for someone to come and like crap all over everything we're doing.

[00:48:07] But I, but I definitely think like, Hey, like, you know, it would be cool if you had this and we're like, yeah, we love that feedback. Like, I think that's incredibly helpful. Like our, our objective is to provide resources and tools that are going to help the industry. Like, I think that's the most exciting thing for me. Like I, I lived through owning gyms during COVID, closed one because of COVID, canceled a lease on a third because of COVID and fought for my life to save the last one. And then High Rocks kind of revived my program.

[00:48:34] And now what I've, what I get to do is help other gyms grow their businesses and service their members in a good way. And like, that's the exciting thing for me. So anything I could do to help your business, like if you think something's going to help, talk to me, let me know. Awesome. Awesome, man. Well, thank you for doing this. It was, it was, it was a pleasure. I learned a lot today and I'm, I'm pretty fired up. I already told Andrew from center that I would do a High Rocks with him. So I guess I gotta, I gotta do it. He's, he still owes me a race. So. Okay. All right. All right.

[00:49:03] Well, I guess maybe we'll both, we'll both do it together. Right on, man. Well, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, David McGee. Thank you. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Fitness. If you did, I'm going to ask you, ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show, wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, CastBox, whatever it may be.

[00:49:33] Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media. Talk about it to your friends. Send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners.

[00:50:02] So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.