Chinwe Onyeagoro - PocketSuite & Simplifying Small Business

Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over three years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. Please stop by futurefitness.co to subscribe and learn more. I've worked with more business softwares than I can remember. The common theme is that they are overcomplicated, difficult to set up, far too many features to navigate, and most of all, expensive. But Pocket Suite is different. If you are a business professional or gym owner that needs clients to book time with you and want a seamless billing solution, then look no further. Pocket Suite has you covered. On average, fitness business professionals that sign up for this app see a 30% boost in income. That's because it's simple and has everything you need and nothing you don't. You can easily sell packages and subscriptions. Control your billing in one place, no need for Venmo, PayPal, or any other merchant solutions. Set up automations to cut down on admin time, like client renewal reminders, seamless client onboarding, contracts, intake forms, etc. etc. Look, I know this because I use it myself. It took me less than 10 minutes to get set up and fire off my first client invoice. If you're looking for a time-saving, simple application that allows you to combine three softwares in one with a clean, professional look for clients and prospects, then you have to check out PocketSuite. Go to pocketsuite.io. That's S G-I-T-E. Check out the Apple App Store or Google Play to learn more and give it a free test run. You can also click on the link in the show notes for my special referral offer. That is pocketsuite.io. This episode of the Future of Fitness is presented to you by the Fit Tech Club, a business network run by the creators of the FitTech Summit, Europe's leading conference devoted to fitness and health technology. Look, friends, the fitness industry is changing faster than ever. The intersection of technology with fitness and health is growing bigger and more dynamic by the minute. Gyms are exploding figuratively, and their constituent parts are ending up at home, outdoors, on your wrist, or in entirely new places with brilliantly new concepts. Investors are pumping astronomical amounts of money into the market like we've never seen before. The FitTech Club believes that collaboration is the advantage to these times of change. That's why the club aims to bring thought leaders together to inspire them by making the right contacts at the right time and giving insights to the industry's most relevant and current trends. Here's what Melanie Lauer, CEO of Kettler and TriSports, says about the FitTech Club.

We have joined the FitTech Club because it gives us access to the most recent innovations in the industry. It gives us access to a unique network and to potential business partners that help us develop our business further.

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Thanks so much, Eric. Happy to be here.

Yeah, very excited to have you. It's you have a long resume of Now I sound old. Well no, I mean, I think I'm I think I'm older than you. I saw when you graduated, uh, I was looking at when you graduated from Harvard. We were in Boston roughly around the same time uh I was at BC. You were you were uh you know working much harder than I was probably at Harvard. And so we're I'm actually older than you, um, I think, if that dictates anything. But you do, you have a ton of, you have a wealth of experience, and it's outside the fitness industry for the most part, and now you know, last few years with Pocket Suite, um, you know, working with a lot of uh independent business owners and entrepreneurs as we were just talking about. Uh, but I like bringing, I like getting the outside, you know, people who maybe have not been within the industry of fitness, health and wellness for a long time, but getting the perspectives from from many different angles. So it's it's great. And well, let's start with that. Maybe give us a little bit of your background. How'd you get to be the uh CEO of Pocket Suite?

Well, three things you should know about me. One is that I just like solving problems. And so just from a very young age, I would always sort of I try to identify like what's what's broken here and how do we how do we fix it? Uh so as a kid, it was, you know, my allowance wasn't large enough. And so I just need to supplement my income. So my friends and I would get together and come up with business ideas and everyone had a role. Uh, and whether it was a lemonade stand or a babysitting club, I was the one writing the business plan for how we would grow it. And so I was trying to solve that problem at an early age. And then, you know, as I as I grew older, I started looking at just the marketplace as a whole and uh just trying to learn a little bit more about business and business problems. And I was really intrigued. And so I went into the management consulting industry, which is, you know, folks who are solving problems for companies for a living, uh, which was awesome. Work for McKinsey and Company and the monitor group all around the world. And, you know, the thing that all of these kind of Fortune 500 companies have in common is they're trying to grow market share, uh, they're trying to differentiate their brand. And so helping them with those kinds of problems. Uh, but there comes a point in every problem solver and consultant's career uh where you no longer want to sit on the sidelines, uh, you know, just kind of uh advising folks to do things. You actually want to get in there and like really fix uh, you know, something that's broken. So I found a thread and I pulled it. And the thread that I found uh sort of was going back to my roots, which is with small businesses. Uh many of the small businesses in my life, uh, whether entrepreneurs that I worked with or um just entrepreneurs that I was friends with or related to, they were having cash flow challenges and many of them had to raise capital. And so they would apply for loans and get rejected. And for me, I was just like, I don't get it. Like, why are so many people getting rejected for loans? Why are they even taking the applications if they're rejecting people? And so I realized that I could actually build a better mousetrack to help people raise small businesses raise capital. And that's what I then pursued. I left consulting and I built a company, a tech company, my first tech company, that was really about just helping people small businesses raise money. And I raised about $100 million for small businesses and small business loan money. And in doing that, learned a ton that ultimately and which ultimately led me to Pocket Suite eventually. Uh, after raising that money, I started to see that much of the reason why folks were having cash flow issues was because they weren't being paid on time. Uh and, you know, like we can we can spend all day talking about the relationship entrepreneurs have with money and engaging with their clients about money that's owed. It's a challenging one. Uh, one that systems can actually help to address. Uh, and so, you know, after kind of doing some soul searching around, gosh, am I solving a root problem, root root cause problem, or am I or am I addressing a symptom, which is the cash flow? So that's the symptom. The root cause problem is, you know, that the business isn't financially healthy and isn't set up in a way to be able to collect that cash in a timely fashion to ensure that the business isn't having to finance the receivables for their clients. Um, so eventually decided that I could build a better mousetra in terms of helping, in particular, service-based businesses uh collect money on time, serve their clients in a great way, and not have to raise loan money unless they're really looking to grow. So that's the that's the short story.

Yeah, right on. You know, I'm curious when what is it about you know, you probably had the opportunity to have work with a lot of large companies as well, Fortune 500s, things like that. But what what is it about the small business sector that you're attracted to? What what is it about that particular type of endeavor?

Yeah. For me, I just believe being able to work for yourself should be a human right. And I believe that we've gone so far from that as a country and as really as a society, uh, where you're you're sort of kind of have a forced march to go and work for these larger firms for the insurance, you know, health insurance benefits, or for, you know, these promised security and salaries. But I think if we go back to our roots, you know, go back as far as hunter-gatherers, right? Like we were all just kind of working for ourselves as artisans, as merchants, and we were figuring it out. And now you have people who have these talents and these love, but they fear that they can't go out and do it and make a great living. And I just think that's just crazy. I think we've got to figure out a way to create a more transparent path from I want to become uh, you know, a personal trainer or I want to become a sports coach and I'm making an awesome living uh doing just that because the road right now is opaque. Uh, and and so for me, that that's a problem worth solving. Uh, you know, having that problem solved. That for me, that's a problem worth solving. And I look at the big companies and I'm like, gosh, if I don't wake up tomorrow working for some of these big companies, the show will go on and they will continue to try to get, you know, that additional basis point, you know, in market share. And that for me is as not as worthwhile a problem to solve than for me, than people just pursuing their passion and being able to confidently do it.

Yeah. Right. I out of curiosity, Chinwai, do you have within your family, do you have a lot of small business owners within your family?

Yeah. So um my dad was a small business owner. Uh, he had a brewery in uh Nigeria. And then uh when he came to America, he had he was like a consultant and worked with a number of folks on helping them uh do everything from land deals to infrastructure deals uh around the globe. Um so he kind of had a professional service firm. And then just coming up in the neighborhoods that I lived in, I would live next to folks who owned, you know, a retail store or uh folks who had cleaning companies. And so I heard their kind of woes and I thought, gosh, this feels like a solvable uh problem. I just didn't know how to solve it at the time.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm always it's a curious thing to me because it it it tends to it tends to go like I'm my dad was a dentist and therefore a small business owner, right? And I saw um I saw that life, like he worked very hard and you know, first generation Italian like came out nothing, right? Put himself through dental school at the age of 30, which is really old back then. Um so I was I'm very proud of what my dad did and what he accomplished, and my mom too, because she was fully there supporting him. She went to nurse Nina was a nurse while he was going through his education, all that stuff. It was a really cool story. But seeing the ups and the downs, like the ups, of course, was you know, at some point my dad had four-day weekends every weekend, right? Or every other weekend, and you know, uh he he very much controlled his own destiny, but a lot of it, like the one thing that always resonated with me when I saw it, I remember just recognizing it at a very early age, was that when he had to fire someone, oh my god, the whole house was just in shambles for like two weeks. Like 10 days leading up to the day he was gonna do it, because he always had to, you know, want to do it on a Friday because that's what his consultant told him. And then for days afterwards, he was just a miserable wreck. I'm like, gosh, like that's that's hard. Or or you know, the occasional well, uh the talk with, well, the office isn't doing too well right now, guys, so we're gonna have to tighten things up that vacation we want to have. So it was like I saw this fluctuation in it, and it became for me it was normalized. So when I eventually started my first small business, um I kind of had eyes wide open of like, okay, this is gonna be challenging. But that being said, the freedom of it, like it doesn't feel as much like work. Like I've done the clock in, clock out thing, and you know, a lot of times you're not really working that hard, to be honest with you. Like, you know, I I remember I look at it fondly sometimes when I just like show up at office at 9 a.m. and like read the news for an hour.

Exactly.

Like that just doesn't happen.

Yeah, no, you're right.

Yeah.

You're absolutely right. You know, it there, you know, I think the entrepreneurial journey is one that is uh is typically not uh it it's not experienced as advertised. Uh I think there the headlines like to share with you the story of three guys in a garage, uh, you know, working for 18 months and then turning that company, that idea into a billion-dollar company. And, you know, it's all fun and games and you know, uh pizza and um and and yes, that does happen once in a while. But I think if you even if you double click on those stories and actually get the get the real details, it, you know, it takes 50 years to become an overnight success and you don't hear all of the things that happened in the background that that allowed them to be positioned in that way to have that big liftoff. I I believe the entrepreneurial journey is about three things. I think it's first and foremost about having just a passion that you feel like, gosh, if I leave this planet, not spending you know, my my free time, my waking hours, my productive time in the service of this, it will have been uh, you know, I won't have, I won't fully have realized, you know, what I came here to do. And whether that is being a dentist and making sure that we all have good oral hygiene, or or it's, you know, making sure people feel good about their bodies and feel confident when they are walking into a room, uh, or helping folks, you know, uh recover from, you know, a major traumatic, you know, accident, you know, as a chiropractor or as a what have you. Like everyone has, you know, a sort of uh a higher calling within the context of the service they're providing. And that's part of what the magic of it for them. That's one. Two is I think there's a point at which people feel like they want to use all parts of themselves. And and oftentimes when you work uh for others, you know, you're kind of compartmentalized, like this is your role, and this is kind of the, this is kind of your paddling pool uh or the boundaries within which you can within which you can play. And as an entrepreneur, there frankly are no boundaries. You set those boundaries yourself. And so you can use every part of yourself from, you know, uh the most creative side, coming up with marketing and branding ideas, to, you know, frankly, the the you know, the the silly side of like, how do I get these spam calls to start stop coming in on my business line? Like, I mean, it's it's everything. It's everything, right? People don't talk about that. And um, and you're bringing your whole self, which is what we do, right? We show up with our whole selves in the world. Why not in our work, in our business? We spend 70% of our waking lives at work. Why not do something that really lights us up inside? That that's number two. And then number three is really just not having a limit to the value you can create and the value that you can generate uh in the world. Uh, oftentimes it's, you know, hey, this is my salary, or maybe I get a bonus, maybe I get a commission. But guess right, the ideas that you put in the world, the service you provide, you know, you don't know what the market is going to value that for. And some people you're curious to see what that is and to go as far as you possibly can. And as an entrepreneur, you can do just that.

Yeah, those are great insights. I love it when things are kind of broken down. And like you've obviously taken a lot of to distill it down to three things, it takes a lot of thought. Right. And all those things resonate with me too. I think um number two, especially, I I you know, using all parts of yourselves. I think another way to say that is uh, you know, you're never gonna be bored, really. Yeah. Uh there's there's always gonna be something new around the corner, and and there may be things that you're gonna have to um handle that you're not really qualified for, nor do you really want to do. Right. I mean, there's there's a lot of stuff, you know, as I was in my first, especially five years of business ownership where it was uh like I really don't want to do this, but you know what? No one else is gonna do it. And I can't afford to pay anyone to pay anyone. That's right right now either.

So it's it is That's right. And and frankly, you know, it's it's important that you do it the first time to understand how you want it done and to understand how it lands before you bring in that next person. Otherwise, you know, ultimately, how do you model it? Uh you don't have to do everything for forever, but it's nice to do some of the core things to really understand how you want it, how you want it done.

Yeah. Yeah, I want to um get into what Pocket Suite is. Uh, because there I I know you've also been talking to a lot of you know, people, clients, and people within your ecosystem. And I want to get insights into what you're gathering from all that. But I think it's important for our audience to actually know what Pocket Suite is. What what how did you start it? What what do you guys do? How do you help? How do you do it?

Yeah, let's just start with the core problem we're solving, right? So if you're uh you know a fitness professional, health and well-witness professional, one of the things you may have encountered early on or even now is somebody reaching out saying, Hey, I'd love to work with you. And uh that sets off a sequence of events that potentially could be up to a hundred touches from what you know, what services do you offer? And if they're reaching out to you, DMing you on Facebook or on Instagram or they're texting you, that's one volley. And then you volley it back to them. You send them to your website, or you send them a brochure, email them something, then they say, okay, great. Uh what's your availability? Uh, and then that opens up a whole nother step for you where you actually have an intake process and you want them to complete some information. And so you keep going back and forth to get all of the information that you need from them, to share your availability with them and to finally align on a time when you can come together for either a phone consultation, uh, an initial workout, uh, or a full-on class. And those, that's again, up to a hundred touch points with that first new client. And oftentimes that's being done manually. It's being done via multiple channels. They might have found you on Facebook, then you try to get them into email, and then eventually you try to get them on your calendar and on so on and so forth. And so, usually what we find is uh many fitness and health and wellness professionals are using three to five different kinds of channels through which to communicate with their uh with their clients and three to five different apps uh that are tied to those channels. And it's kind of a mess and chaotic. And that's okay if you have one, two or three clients. No problem. I'm willing to do that work and go back and forth because I don't yet know what I have here. I don't yet know, you know, kind of what my process is. But now when you start getting to 10 and 15 clients, that's, you know, 15 clients times 15 touches for every time they book you or every time they, you know, come into a class. That's too much for you to be holding in your head. Uh, that's too much for you to be trying to kind of manage across three to five systems. That's where Pocket Suite comes in. Uh Pocket Suite is an all in one app that really enables you to deliver an awesome on demand experience for your clients to be able to schedule you, uh, to be able to pay you, to be able to answer any of the questions that you have, give provide all the information you need, and ultimately to communicate with them. So it's all in one and it just makes it simple. You don't need To five apps, you can use one and have a really seamless client experience. What people don't realize is uh that clients these days we're used to tapping one button, ordering a pizza in 20 minutes, tapping one void and getting our groceries. And so we're no longer tolerant of, oh gosh, I have to go back and forth, or I have to call you or sign something manually to work with you from a sort as a service professional. And so Pocket Suite is really looking to kind of help folks level up and provide that on-demand experience that consumers are used to.

Yeah, awesome. Great explanation. Uh when you came up with the framework for Pocket Suite and the uh, you know, I guess the features and what what you want to put in there to keep it simple. Because I I think, you know, there is this huge swell in when it comes to at least business management softwares within um this space, this vertical fitness, health, and wellness. It was like, well, how robust can we make it? Right? Like how many things can we have? And now I'm starting to see like the shrinking down to like, well, we don't need all that stuff. Exactly. Right. And it just becomes more confusing. So when you started the the research on what particular features you wanted to put in there, what what was that process like? And what what were some of the um, I guess, aha moments you had?

Yeah, the first thing that we did is we did a survey um and we cast a really wide net for different types of businesses and we asked them kind of what is what's your pattern uh in terms of like what's your workflow like? How do you communicate with clients? How do you do and what what sort of was the aha moment is there was no magic for us across a variety of industries. But the but the industries that we had a perfect lock on were those where the entrepreneur was spending four or five days out of the week like away from their desk. They were in the they were in the field out in the park doing, you know, yoga in the park, or they were, you know, in the studio at the gym and they were not in a position to get behind a desk and be following up on all sorts of admin tasks. They at by the end of the day, they're exhausted. So even if they were back going back to an office or a home, the last thing they want to do is to get behind a desk and then have to follow up on all of those things. So for us, it was about what we can put in the hands of entrepreneurs who were out and about that gives them the full power of their business. And the thing that they had in common that they really wanted to be able to do from the road was message a client at any time. They wanted to be able to collect payment on things that were owed or, you know, things people were booking right up front. And they wanted to be able to get scheduled and be scheduled and see kind of their schedule. Those are the three things they wanted to be able to do uh while they were out and about and just access all of their client information from wherever they were. And that's really what we were solving for. Uh, we didn't add the bells and whistles, hey, I'm gonna give you a nutrition plan or workout routine and video. And we're starting to see that, you know, sort of explode in this market. And when we ask our fitness pros, you know, what matters most, they talk to us about scheduling, messaging, and payments. And they say, you know, I actually want a lot of flexibility when it comes to workout plans. Sometimes I find a workout plan on YouTube, sometimes I find something on TikTok. And so I don't really want to be boxed in to a set of workout routines because depending on what my clients need, I want to actually put together something custom for them. So they're they're like not using as many of the bells and whistles that some of these other apps have and are kind of building in.

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That is and are is it for is it direct to consumer or is it for trainers for trainers to work with their trainers? That's awesome.

So they just boil down to like what's the simplest, quickest way I can write a program, right? And what are the features that I want? Well, I want to distribute it out, I want a little bit of you know, people to to communicate with them within, but it doesn't need to be complicated. I don't need a lot of that's awesome. So it's I think we're getting to this phase of like, well, the real answers are not more robust, but it's how do we get to the root causes? And and people, you know, it's like features on a car. Like, okay, really what do I need? Well, I need to be able to put it in drive and reverse and park. Exactly. And you know, I need to know my speed, right? And I need to know how much gas I have left. And like these are the key features, and a lot of times, you know, if you want something fancier, you can have it, but at the root level, that's really all you need, right? Um right.

What one too many dials and controls, you feel like you're flying a plane, and it's like that's not a good feeling.

I still drive the same 2007 Nissan Murano that I have. Love it. 2007. And uh, you know why? Because I know how everything works. It's still got a CD player, right? And I don't care. I listen to the radio. That's awesome. You know, that's fine, but me and I I got in and drove a Tesla not too long ago. I was like, whoa.

I know, I know, yeah.

Uh this is a lot going on. Um Jimmy, I want to ask you too. I mean, you you mentioned prior recording that you've been doing a lot of uh really communicating with the businesses that that you work with. And I think that's uh you know, something not not a lot of CEOs do, right? Uh so explain to me two things is you know, why why do you find that so valuable and why do you do it? Uh and why do you spend your you know um limited time doing that stuff? And then what what are you learning from these people?

That's awesome. Yeah, I my fundamental belief is that world-class companies are built on world-class customer experience and it just it all starts with the customer. And uh my heroes are Zappos, uh, Airbnb. Uh, these are companies that you know pride themselves in um starting with the experience first. What does this experience need to be? Airbnb talks about the 11-star experience where you get to the house and Elon Musk is waiting for you to take you to the moon. That's the 11-star experience. Um, Zappos has a reverse customer success model where they actually want to keep you on the phone and answer, you want me to order your pizza? Happy to do that too. It's about building the trust, building the relationship. And so that and they go to the wall, which is why Amazon tried to compete with them, failed, and then bought them for a billion dollars because they had a customer experience that they just could not recreate because it started with the company culture and putting customer experience first. And so for me personally, Pocket Suite's about that world-class customer experience. Why? Because we're working with entrepreneurs who it's got to be more than just an app. This is their lives. They're making 80% of their income on Pocket Suite. They're paying their bills, they're paying their school fees. And so for me, uh, it's about how do we help you to get to where you're going? And with that, you have to have a conversation. I have to understand what your goals are. I have to understand what your common, your context is to make ensure that you're building the right workflow and using Pocket Suite in the way that's best for you. So that's why I prize it. And that's why the the folks that we bring on board, they just absolutely love talking to pros. Like if they like, hey, tell us about your business. What can we do? Like, how can we set this up? How can we help you grow? Um, that's the conversation, you know. Um, what can we get out of your way so you can move faster? So, what I'm learning from these conversations is one, COVID was hard. Uh, COVID was very hard. Uh, and and it was also a blessing. Many of these businesses fast forwarded the uh updating of their workflow, the automations that they had been wanting to do, but it was always at the bottom of their priority list and they had some time to do it. And they also had a mandate, which is I will not be able to connect with my my users, my clients if if I don't put these in place. And so they did it. And now their businesses are doing 30 to 40% better prior to prior to COVID. Uh 30%, 40% more income than we're making than before COVID. So they've recovered and then some, which is exciting. That's one. Two is they're looking ahead uh and really trying to be thoughtful about uh how do I work smarter and and how do I not just make more, but make more without necessarily creating more stress and health challenges in my life. And so the kind of conversations we're having is not just about how do I get more clients and how do I make more income. It's are there things I could be doing with my pricing uh that could that could adjust my income without actually having to take on more hours in the week, and which is a different kind of conversation than you typically have. Um, so folks are trying to ensure that they are building a business that's sustainable and building a life uh that is, you know, is full and rich and work is just one part of that. And to have that kind of conversation as a tech company that's helping you to power your business, that's just a gift. That's just a gift. It's taking us in a direction where we're partnering with, you know, large organizations that certify these uh, you know, these certain pros and talking to them about, hey, how can you provide some of your uh content in the app and communicate with the pros on their business dashboard about things they could be doing right now that could actually help make them more money, but make maybe allow them to work less uh or give them an ability to take a break and still feel as though their business is running on in the background on autopilot. How do you build that in? Um, so my goal and aspiration is to help turn every service business into a SaaS business, uh, you know, to really enable you to build that recurring income stream so that you uh don't have the concerns and the volatility that creates stress and in some cases creates cash flow challenges that can be fatal. Uh, that's my aspiration. And the best way that I can do it is start with understanding what you're trying to accomplish, uh, who your clients are, and then how to build uh and and set up your workflow and your automations in a way that also helps you achieve that.

Yeah, that's great. I it so I'm curious, you know, how do you deliver that additional value? I mean, it can't be Chinwei getting on the phone with every single pocket speaker, right?

If I could, I would. I know, I would have no doubt.

I have no doubt. Um how do you scale that? Like, is that uh is it a customer support department? Um Yeah.

So we have a customer support team. Yeah, I would say we have a customer support team, and I would say 20% of our users uh engage with the customer support team at some point in their life cycle. The vast majority of our users sign on to Pocket Suite. They tell us what industry they're in. The app auto-updates for their industry. Every picture you see, all the defaults you see are for your industry. So you'll start to see here are some recommended services you might want to offer. Top fitness pros are offering it. Here are some packages and subscriptions that they offer their pros. So it's providing this curated experience based on the best of the best, you know, kind of folks that are on operating on Pocket Suite that are earning the top 10% of earners in Pocket Suite. And it's showing them an ability to be able to get set up in 15 minutes with the workflows exactly as they want them. Um, so that's kind of the typical use case. Uh, but the only way we're able to build that typical use case is that we're learning from the 20% we're on the calls with to say, where is this landing? Where is this not landing? What what do we need to do in the app and to productize it to ensure that it lands for even more of you uh more of the time.

Yeah. Uh I want to get some perspective because you're a great person to ask because you I know you guys do pocket suite works across a couple different industry verticals, right? It's not just fitness and health. Um so kind of tell us about the whole ecosystem that you have because I I I want to get into like, well, what are some of the similarities that you see across the board no matter what? Right. And what are some of the differences when it comes to industry?

Yeah. So we work, we we support 67 different verticals. That sounds like a big number. But when you break down those verticals, it's actually about seven meta-verticals. So that's like health and wellness, and that's where you have fitness, uh, yoga, Pilates, nutritionists, health and wellness. Uh, we've got beauty uh as a vertical, hair, nail, makeup, uh, aestheticians, that you've got pet professionals, walkers, groomers, trainers, sitters, right? Uh, you've got what we call white collar. And so this covers a lot of folks, photographers, tutors, what have you. And then you've got home services. So contractors, cleaners, right, detailers, so forth. Um, and then there are the creatives, uh, event planners, what have you. Uh, and then we have this category called other. And I, if I could tell you the folks in other, I'm talking about invisible fence builders and squirrel trainers. And like, I mean, it's just like, okay, this is amazing. Um, so so we've got that's other. So we've got seven verticals. And here's what I'll say the the golden thread across all of these verticals, and we've done the analysis to say, okay, what what are the top 10% in all these verticals doing? Um, and and is there any similarity? And what just across the board the top 10% are doing. And and by the way, top 10% are earning three times more than the average. Uh, so average fitness trainer on Pocket Suite's earning about 60,000, 70,000. Uh, average fitness train, average fitness and health and wellness, or sorry, top 10% is about 120, 140 or more in income a year. So what they're doing, number one, online booking, they are giving clients the control to book them, to manage their relationship with them. There are many uh pros who say, no, I want control of my schedule. I want them to call me or text me, and then I'll manage it. And that's fine. But what it's not acknowledging is there are people that are trying to reach you, and because they can't find a way to see your schedule right now at 2 a.m., because that's when they want to book, they are moving on to the next person who does have that schedule available. So you're not seeing that pent-up demand. And so that's leakage in your funnel that you're not acknowledging. So you get the people who fulfill who push through, but all the people who wanted to but couldn't find an easy way to do it, you just can't even quantify it because you don't have a mechanism to do it. That's number one, online booking. Number two is packages. No longer are folks doing the one and done, right? It's we do that consultation, you see the benefit of what I can offer, and now you're doing a package. If you, if you want to, you know, uh slim down or if you want to tone up, or if you want, we've you've got to commit to a program. This is not gonna be a one and done or an intermittent, you know, thing. So if you commit to a package, this these are the kind of results that we can work on together. Um, and so you get that bundle of appointments that's purchased up front, and then they're working their way down and tracking the sessions. And of course, the holy grail is subscriptions, because even a package is not enough. Uh, because at some point you have to then resell that package again and renew it. And so, really, subscriptions is essentially an auto-renewable package that gives you a certain number of sessions per period to be able to continue to work together on a goal. Those are three things they all have in common. Uh, and those are three things that ultimately lead to recurring income.

Yeah, interesting. What about differences? What do you notice as far as differences across the board?

Yeah, I mean, I think the one big difference is, you know, fundamentally there are there are service professionals that are performing an activity for you. Um, and then there are service, and they are total control, right? A hairstylist has total control as to what the outcome or barber of what the outcome of your hair. Whilst a fitness professional or a life coach, it's a or a pet uh professional dog trainer, it's a shared commitment. You do your part, I'll do my part. There's some homework on your part to be able to deliver a result. And those are more tricky, right? Because I'm coming to you for an outcome, and part of your job is to help me see my role in delivering that outcome. So it's more of a consultative sell than a lot of these other uh professions where it's like, hey, this is the outcome, this is the result. You just sit tight and I'll deliver this for you. It's more consultative. There's a principle and a belief system and a commitment that clients have to buy into. Um, and and there is a certain level of we will move at your pace. Uh, so at whatever pace and commitment level you're demonstrating, that's ultimately the kind of incremental result you're gonna see. And that's, you know, frankly, I would argue that's a harder job uh because you know, you're building trust and uh you need to use that trust to ultimately hopefully shift perspective uh to be able to get the results that you need. And so I don't think we acknowledge that enough that health professionals, fitness professionals are in fact, in fact, consultants and coaches, like psychological, emotional, mental coaches, as well as physical and physiological, you know, and nutrition, all of that. Uh, that's a lot. Um, it's a lot. Uh so uh I think that's a huge difference. I think that's a huge difference. And I also think the other difference is the group, the choice between do I do the solo uh private sessions or do I do group-based? Um, not a lot of professions have the option of doing group. If I'm doing your hair, it's it's just your hair. I'm not, you know, it's group-based. And group-based means that you have to provide something that's going to work for everybody, and you somehow have to make a connection with everyone. Uh, and how do you do that? Uh, we've been watching Pelotone over the last two years, and you know, their rise to the top was they figured out a way to make that connection and to tap into that community by using community, right? It wasn't just on the strength of the instructor. It was who else is in the class and what vibe are they bringing? And I think the best fitness pros and health professionals who are using the class format are somehow trying to figure out how to build community. And so it doesn't all rest on them. You're coming back, not just for me, but for this community that we've been able to kind of curate and nurture together. Um, and so that's a new skill set, I think, that folks are learning how to do, not just online, but also offline.

I I totally agree. And that's uh, you know, and I talk about technology within the fitness industry, which I do often. The uh one of the things that I I try to focus, try to keep it simple for people, right? And then like you, I like the rule of three. Uh, I think you you, you know, you're like it just three seems to be a number that we can really digest well, right? Um but you know, three things that you know you can apply technologies to. And I don't, you know, necessarily say, hey, this is this platform or that platform. I just want people to understand that the concepts of you know um accountability is is huge, that you know, technology can can help enhance um the experience, like the actual experience of working out or training or being a client of yours. Like, how can you enhance that some way? And that means leaning into what you already do really well. Um, not trying to, you know, if you're a great in-person trainer, don't go try to create digital fitness solutions, right? Like lean into because there's a lot of people with a lot bigger budgets and a lot more experience that are gonna do that a lot better than you. And the last one is community, and that's where I'm getting into is that I think community can now can expand outside of just the four walls of where you work with someone or in the park, wherever it may be. You can make community uh more powerful and more, I guess, omnipresent in someone's life through you know uh technological solutions, whatever that may be. And you know, I'm not here to endorse anything, but I think if people can walk away with a couple key things, another rule of three for them within this conversation, I think those are really important. Uh I'm curious about this. If you've had this, what noticings you've had on this, but during the pandemic, did you see people um, you know, in the the quote unquote great net resignation, right? Uh, did you see a lot more small businesses start over the last few years, or did you see them like yeah, tell me about that. What are your noticing?

Yeah, we did. Yeah, we saw a lot of that, and we saw it uh sort of from from two angles. One, it were people who were laid off. Um, and in many cases, it was in the service industry where hospitality and restaurant, where you couldn't, you know, they just didn't have the demand. And so they weren't able to keep folks. And you saw people who um, you know, stepped right in and actually pursue the passion. What do I have to lose? And they started, they set up their um, you know, their businesses, their booking stakes, they started doing videos online to try to pull in uh clients and they were effective at it. Uh, that was one category. The other category of people who are still employed, but just felt like, you know, the world feels a lot less certain and a lot less stable. And I think I need to have multiple streams of income. Uh, and I'm working from home, so I do have that ability. My commute time is now gone. And so I do have that ability to build out and carve out that additional time to start building towards the future I want, um, or at least just supplementing my income just in case. And so they set up kind of these side hustles. And uh, for some, the side hustle stayed a side hustle. For others, they turned it into something bigger as it sort of started to catch, catch, uh, catch steam. So it was really a very interesting time. And I think most people that you talk to, short of folks who have experienced losses, you know, during that time, will say, yes, it was a tough time, but it was it was important time and where important changes were made in our lives and we will never go back uh based on those changes.

Yeah. Yeah, there's always huge opportunity when when there's such a seismic shift like that. And I think when uh I don't think, I know when our backs are up against the wall, we end up doing things that maybe we always thought we wanted to do or that we should be doing, right? Right. Uh and we actually do it because we have no choice. That urgency is really, really powerful.

It's just, yeah, that's where the the YOLO, right? You only live once really started. People were like, you know what, let me just do now or never.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um, you know, this is one of the questions I always kind of wrap things up with, Jinwei. But um, when I asked the, you know, ask this in the spirit of um collaboration and things like that with other people in the industry. But what is it that you need right now? What what what are you looking for from this particular industry? How can we help you and pocket sweep?

Yeah, what we do really well is um kind of power technology that automates core functions that you need as a business. What we don't know a lot about is the industry itself, right? Like the what are the set of things that really make for helping to grow your business to the next level? We we have formed partnerships with organizations that work in these industries and that are working to certify, create standards, uh, help to create kind of business practices that help get people started faster and help people continue to up-level their business. So we're looking for more organizations uh that are in the fitness and health and wellness space that have some really core tools uh that you'd love to be able to uh embed uh so that other fitness professionals and health and wellness professionals that are getting started can just use them and uh get into the business the right way uh and accomplish their goals.

Right on, right on. Well, it's it's been uh it's been really interesting talking to you. I mean, like I said, you know, having that diverse experience across the business and entrepreneurial landscape is really valuable because I think one of the things that at least it's changed over the last five years for sure, but you know, the the fitness industry, especially gym owners and things like that, we really kind of looked outside of our own model um to see what we could learn from like the bakery down the street, right? Or the nail salon that may be crushing it, but you can't tell, right?

Like all these different things.

There's a there's a lot of different uh there's a lot of different ways to learn outside of the industry. I think it's really valuable. So your perspective is is warmly welcomed here. Um Chume, if people want to get a hold of you or if you want to send them somewhere particular online, where where do you send them?

Yeah, please come to our website, pocketsuite.io, check out uh what we what we're doing in the fitness and help them well in this space, and uh, and then you can go to the app store or Google Play and download the app.

Right on. Well, thank you so much. This has been very uh very fun conversation. I learned a lot, and I think there's a lot of great perspectives coming out of it. So yeah, appreciate you coming on, ladies and gentlemen, Chinwei.

Thank you, Eric. Great questions.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.