Robb Wolf - LMNT, GLP-1, & The Joe Rogan Experience

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[00:02:11] That's podcastcollective.io. All right. Rob Wolfe, welcome back to the future of fitness.

[00:02:20] Eric, good to see you man. You look more and more handsome every time I see you or my eyesight

[00:02:25] continues to degrade. One or the other, I don't know. It's probably the latter, but I'll take it.

[00:02:30] A little bit of both. Now you just gotten yourself a monthly segment on this podcast because I love

[00:02:35] to hear it. My ego is fragile, so thank you, Rob. Absolutely, my pleasure. My pleasure.

[00:02:40] Yeah man, and back to you too, not to fluff you up too much, but I know you just hit a

[00:02:45] benchmark, I think of 50 or something like that. 52. 52, dude. Yeah. And you look really good.

[00:02:53] It's funny, I was looking at something on Instagram just wasting time and it had this thing of like,

[00:02:59] this is what 30 years ago we thought 45 looked like. And it was like they looked old, tired.

[00:03:06] Like what a 65, 75, 65, 70 year old looks like, but now we look at 45 as like vibrant,

[00:03:13] like still doing a lot of stuff like you. So it's just interesting. I mean,

[00:03:17] okay let's start with that because it's just an interesting conversation on aging and longevity,

[00:03:21] but when you look at today's people in our age bracket, 45 to 55, are we healthier

[00:03:27] in that age bracket than we were 30 years ago? I think by and large, yes. Smoking is almost unheard

[00:03:35] of in our peer group, you know, and I from both the health and like an aesthetics kind of

[00:03:42] perspective man if you want to age your skin just like bathe it in free radicals from

[00:03:47] cigarette smoke or other types of smoke to be honest. And so I think that that's a big deal.

[00:03:53] I will say that it's almost, I remember as a kid I read this fantasy series by Robert Peersig. It was

[00:04:02] myth incorporated. It was like this kid who got taken in as a Sorcerer's apprentice and it was

[00:04:10] pretty funny. It was pretty funny stuff but they arrived at this place where there were like

[00:04:17] it was one species but for a thousand years, 2000 years, one of them had basically been on this

[00:04:24] track of being like these warrior Spartan badasses and then the other one was like these couch potatoes

[00:04:32] overfed sedentary. And so the story goes that they got roped into this thing where they were

[00:04:37] going to have a battle with what they thought was basically the couch potatoes but it turned

[00:04:44] out there was this whole other section of these like Spartan warriors and you know they're like

[00:04:49] six foot five and 300 pounds and jacked and everything and it ended up being quite a

[00:04:54] quite a thing. And I think about that in terms of today and that I almost feel like there's

[00:04:59] like a speciation event like when you have people and some of this is you know the good

[00:05:06] fortune of being able to do this but you can work out, you can control your food,

[00:05:11] you can sleep like I think sleep is one of these things like 2000, 2001 I read

[00:05:18] Lightout Sleep Sugar and Survival and it was written by an evolutionary biologist and a biophysicist

[00:05:24] and so it really spoke to me about kind of the evolutionary biology and the thermodynamics,

[00:05:29] the physics of why sleep is so important. And so you know I'm 25 years in half of my life

[00:05:35] effectively that I've been really prioritizing sleep and I don't know if anybody in the

[00:05:40] past has really done that other than before TV, before social media, before you know the

[00:05:46] ubiquity of the electric light bulb I think that people just slept more so there was you know kind

[00:05:51] of some things stacked there but we are so lucky to have the amount of information that we do

[00:05:59] and you know hopefully you can curate it and get it into a few like Huberman lab actionable

[00:06:05] steps you know get the light in your eyes although like if you do the full Huberman protocol

[00:06:10] I don't know if you have time to take a dump throughout the day and you do anything other

[00:06:14] than like his protocol you know all the time but you know if you eat reasonably well and you

[00:06:20] don't smoke, you don't abuse alcohol, you prioritize sleep, you do some amount of exercise

[00:06:27] it's amazing and then when you look again at the you know so I missed my 30th high school

[00:06:33] reunion because of COVID I graduated in 1990 so it was 2020 that that should have happened but

[00:06:39] I saw some pictures of my classmates and it's like damn like you really at 10 years you could see

[00:06:46] where the different lifestyle choices were kind of diverging and then at 20 years but at 30 years

[00:06:51] it was again what I would call like a speciation event it's kind of it's kind of crazy and I

[00:06:57] don't know that I'm gonna live particularly longer than probably most of these people but I feel

[00:07:01] like I will get twice as much life out of it because I still jujitsu at a fairly high level and I lift

[00:07:08] weights and I most days I feel pretty good you know it's not like being a teenager but more

[00:07:14] days than not I get up and I'm like I've got a little piss and vinegar in my my soul to go do

[00:07:19] some stuff and you know you know and I'm lucky in that regard too that I have work that I find

[00:07:25] meaningful and my family doesn't hate me yet and stuff like that you know so you add that other

[00:07:30] good stuff in there and it's it's good and I I think back to my dad when my dad was 50 he seemed

[00:07:37] old he seemed frail and I guess compared to myself at 30 I am kind of old and frail but I guess again

[00:07:45] compared to my peer group like I'm doing pretty good at 30 I could power clean and push your 350

[00:07:51] pounds like that well and I there's no fucking way I can do that you injuries you know some

[00:07:58] mileage and all that but I'm way better at jujitsu than I was when I was 30 so there's that yeah it's

[00:08:04] you know for me too it uh I'm in way better shape you compare me to 25 to what I am now significantly

[00:08:11] better shape but I don't really have the drive to lift as heavy as I did 10 years ago like I just

[00:08:16] don't desire to do that I'd rather you know kind of do the stuff I love or rather ski

[00:08:22] rather just get out in the back country more in the summer and spring and you know all that

[00:08:26] stuff is more important to me so I feel like my values are more in line with my fitness and wellness

[00:08:30] routines so it's more motivating like I don't I could give a shit how much I power clean now

[00:08:36] right and that's an impressive number right well you're talking about 300 that's that's incredible

[00:08:40] but uh but yeah so let there's a lot of topics I want to cover with you today Robin and obviously

[00:08:45] if people can start to gather uh you you know your shit right when it comes to even paramount

[00:08:52] I think in my coaching and uh you know fitness and wellness industry journey just from afar you know

[00:08:58] we've had conversations over the years but following your work and and leaning into it a little bit has

[00:09:03] been really beneficial to me because I think you're you're not you're not one to just go with

[00:09:07] the flow right if you see something wrong that you don't like you're going to be vocal about

[00:09:12] it and I think that's that's a really important role within our industry so I want to start off

[00:09:18] with GLP one and then we're going to get into element how you're doing with that company and

[00:09:23] some of the long-term visions of sustainability with that I think is really cool and then I also

[00:09:28] want to get your take on being on the Joe Rogan experience which a few of my guests have done

[00:09:32] that and then also talk about maybe the state of the industry or overall when it comes to

[00:09:37] working capital and things like that or investor capital so there's a lot to cover here so let's

[00:09:41] start GLP one you know I've had experts on this okay I've had business minds on this

[00:09:48] podcast who are presenting cases for how GLP one can be used in a fitness and wellness setting

[00:09:54] right commercially but we haven't really got into like okay well what about the efficacy

[00:10:00] long-term effects so I know you have a different point of view on it so maybe share

[00:10:02] what your thoughts are on GLP one and we'll take it from there.

[00:10:06] You know it's funny I've made a lot of people angry like I do very little social media at

[00:10:11] this point I really need like a gun at my head to go on Instagram I do a little bit of stuff

[00:10:17] on X or Twitter or whatever because I feel like the engagement is just better and like if

[00:10:22] somebody wants to have a discussion I can like put in some citations we can have a conversation

[00:10:27] and all that stuff but I've posted some stuff around GLP one and and drugs in this class

[00:10:33] and potential future drugs and it has bent people because I've made the case that I think

[00:10:40] these things may end up being a net good for society and and and that's with the

[00:10:46] acknowledgement that there is absolutely a downside like some people end up with a gastroparesis

[00:10:51] where their stomach doesn't work anymore like that's a pretty big deal you know like what's

[00:10:58] that saying you got to break some eggs to make an omelet like that's a that's kind of an early

[00:11:01] omelet to make but hardly anybody in our space really understands the gravitas of where

[00:11:09] we are with the obesity story like in 2004 I think was the first time that I gave any public

[00:11:19] discussion around the reality that the congressional budget office then had a projection

[00:11:26] that the the US would effectively be bankrupt from diabetes related health care costs by 2035

[00:11:35] and that was before covid that was before a whole host of other things like what they projected is that

[00:11:42] we would spend every nickel dime and penny that we had on dealing with the externalities of

[00:11:50] diabetes related problems not a single bullet fired in the military not a single pothole fire

[00:11:57] you know filled on our infrastructure everything would be devoted to just dealing with with

[00:12:03] diabetes related issues and I don't think that much has changed on that now we just keep

[00:12:08] printing money and that you know that's a whole other discussion about when the you know the chickens

[00:12:13] will come home to roost on that but I will still say that you know every single year uh that or

[00:12:20] it's like every three years every four years that the FDA has like its updated food guidelines

[00:12:25] and it's just ridiculous like the the industry collusion there is so obvious and it it's just

[00:12:33] gas lighting doesn't even describe it you know they will continually say that low carb diets

[00:12:39] and paleo diets and you know different things like that are not appropriate but like a slim

[00:12:45] fast based you know dietary approach is fine there was even like a report a study study

[00:12:53] that scientists showed that a diet of hyper of high hyper processed foods can in fact be healthy

[00:13:00] like this was it was I don't know if you remember seeing that thing but it was just like the

[00:13:05] the bullshit he is to bullshit so we're not getting any real like diet and lifestyle intervention

[00:13:12] at the top end of this stuff like Walter Willett Harvard School of Medicine you know like

[00:13:18] there's still just you're either vegan or you know eggs are going to kill you because they're worse than

[00:13:27] you know cigarettes and stuff so there's just this this chasm with regards to like public health

[00:13:33] messaging and then post covid you know we're motoring in this direction where like everything

[00:13:40] that's not 100 formulae eric uh accepted by mainstream medicine is misinformation disinformation

[00:13:49] malinformation which either those have kind of a different delineation to it and it's it's a

[00:13:54] po poise to be censored so like even trying to get good information out is becoming you know

[00:14:00] difficult so then we have these glp ones that really fucking work like they they they work

[00:14:06] like people will lose weight on them there are absolutely side effects some of the side effects

[00:14:11] are pretty gnarly but i have a good friend of mine who owns one of the the most popular restaurants

[00:14:17] in atlanta georgia it's called the nook and he was at a meeting of like these top level

[00:14:23] restaurant tours and these folks were talking about the the ozempec effect on restaurants

[00:14:31] which is that they've seen this dramatic decrease in both frequency of people being at restaurants

[00:14:38] and also like the total ticket price or ticket amount it's not necessarily the price because

[00:14:44] costs have gone up people are not ordering as much food as they used to wow and all kind of

[00:14:49] this is one of the funny things that when i've mentioned this shit online people who know

[00:14:53] not a goddamn thing about any of this stuff well oh well people are you know don't have money

[00:14:58] because of covid and stuff like that there are there is truth to that but like there's a deeper

[00:15:02] trend here like people have been trending towards larger and more food purchases for a long time

[00:15:09] like this has just been this thing that restaurant tours like just bank on it's almost like uh

[00:15:15] an interest rate it's like a we can expect like a one or two percent per year increase in the

[00:15:21] amount of food that people order just because that that's the way it goes and that's changed

[00:15:26] the bisco the manufacturer of of trisket and wheat thins and all the stuff they're trying to figure

[00:15:33] out a way of suing the glp one manufacturers because it's gutting their business that's and again like

[00:15:40] i've i've thrown this stuff out to the unwashed masses and i'm gonna sound like a huge dick i

[00:15:45] don't know if i'm like cranky today or what but like just my my tolerance of shenanigans is like

[00:15:50] either get educated on a topic or like shut the fuck up but i guess this is kind of what what we're

[00:15:56] trying to do here but i just find something fascinating that these snack food manufacturers who have been

[00:16:03] like robber barons last 30 years they've got subsidized government subsidized raw materials

[00:16:09] coming in the front end they've got the the kind of academic industrial complex on the other

[00:16:17] signing off on their stuff so long as it doesn't have animal products in a you know can be seed

[00:16:22] oils and refined sugars and all the stuff it's all good so they're winning winning winning until this

[00:16:29] you know these glp ones come in and really have punched them in the nuts have really undercut

[00:16:35] their sales and i find that fascinating and i the costs associated with massive like i i did this

[00:16:45] this thing i've never published it but i might do it like there's there's some rough estimates of

[00:16:50] like how profitable the drug cartels are and they're like ridiculously profitable there's so much

[00:16:56] profit margin there the cartels are starting to have problems dealing with the health care costs

[00:17:02] of their people because in these developing countries particularly mexico that it is industrialized

[00:17:07] to a degree that you actually have a legitimate middle class an upper middle class and they're

[00:17:13] eating differently and they're getting sick and the thing about diabetes related health care costs

[00:17:19] is it goes up as an exponential and you there is nothing else that you can do economically to offset

[00:17:27] exponential growth you can be as as profit whether whether you are fiser or whether you're

[00:17:32] like the sinola cartel you can't deal with an exponential indefinitely it will eat it will

[00:17:38] eat you alive and this is just one of these things that i don't think folks like remotely

[00:17:45] wrap their heads around but then along come these glp one agonists and they really seem to be having

[00:17:54] some effect and so i know that was like this long convoluted story and i don't know that it really

[00:17:59] tells any any uh you know insight other than this might actually be an important like footnote

[00:18:07] in the history of this whole thing and that it could potentially turn the tide of these

[00:18:13] monumental health care costs even though these these glp ones are really expensive they're not

[00:18:19] remotely as expensive as dealing with the cost of dialysis and and you know the the the other

[00:18:26] you know kind of extenuating circumstances around metabolic disease and so i i'm bullish

[00:18:33] that over the long haul this is going to end up being a net positive for society and this is

[00:18:39] somebody who it really pains me to say that i'd love to see people change diet and lifestyle

[00:18:44] and all that and i see a lot of people get very like moralistic about this where it's like well

[00:18:48] they're just taking a drug well yeah and hopefully they don't die from you know diabetic uh complications

[00:18:54] and and cost society a huge you know chunk of money in the in the process with that so

[00:19:01] i don't know man i mean that that's that's my take that's like my alternate take on the glp ones

[00:19:06] that i think it might end up being a net benefit when it's all said and done with the understanding

[00:19:12] that there are costs associated with it that some people end up with some really significant

[00:19:18] secondary problems um that there is some weight gain significant weight gain associated with

[00:19:24] going off of them maybe you just don't go off of them i i don't know but

[00:19:28] as long as we will continue to subsidize the industrial the industrialization of our food

[00:19:34] system and as long as that's all supported at the academic level and we're just lying to people

[00:19:40] but then hoping that they they choose something different that will help them to be healthy like

[00:19:46] we need something else that can cut through all that yeah it's i think i i basically agree with

[00:19:51] everything you said so the uh i hate that we're getting into bed with pharma on it again right but

[00:19:58] i don't know how that's ever deruts itself from from our communities the you know i think the

[00:20:04] knee jerk reaction within the fitness and health community was like it's cheating the system

[00:20:09] right it's unnatural it's like you got to do it the hard way of the old fashion where there's

[00:20:13] no shortcuts like i've heard these these things being said dozens and dozens of times and my

[00:20:19] thought is like well when we look around like for most people we do not live in a natural world

[00:20:25] at all right from you know the way we live indoors we live essentially in aquariums most of the time

[00:20:30] right like the food we eat the sedentary like this isn't natural what we've we've done so maybe

[00:20:36] we need an unnatural way to counterbalance it and that's just my you know the wreck without

[00:20:42] you know knowing the research really well so i agree i think it's like it could be a huge

[00:20:45] opportunity we just have to you know trade carefully but the the uh other option is do nothing

[00:20:52] and stay on the current path and that's fucked right we already know that so it'll fix itself

[00:20:58] because when everything collapses people won't be fat anymore because it's like the road warrior

[00:21:05] you know i we ran a gym for better than 10 years it was the fourth crossfit gym in history

[00:21:12] we're picked as one of men's health top 30 gyms in america we're really good at what we did and i can

[00:21:18] count on one hand the number of people that were morbidly obese that i got them down to a

[00:21:25] healthy weight because when they're that far down the track it's devilishly hard to get

[00:21:31] them to do anything to change i have like one one guy five foot nine walked into our gym

[00:21:38] 425 pounds he's a lawyer like god has never made someone better at arguing and more

[00:21:45] you know appropriate for arguing and he argued and fought those whole god damn way but we

[00:21:50] eventually got him down to a really fit good looking 190 pounds like he's just a big he's

[00:21:56] a big dude you know but we kept a bunch of muscle on him in in this process of you know cutting

[00:22:02] is is body weight in half but my god the work that we had to do to get him there and then the

[00:22:09] number of other people that we get them fitter you know and oftentimes the conversation was so if

[00:22:15] you if you don't want to comply with the diet to to any degree that's cool we'll work you out

[00:22:21] we'll get you a fitter you'll be healthier you just can't complain about your weight like if

[00:22:27] you're going to complain about your weight or how you look then you gotta you gotta follow the

[00:22:30] dietary stuff and if you're not going to follow that i'm not going to fire you unless like you

[00:22:36] continue to bitch about still being fat when you refuse i can't i can't out exercise i only have you

[00:22:43] for an hour three to five times a week which is a lot like that's a lot but you have the other

[00:22:49] 23 hours of all the other days to undo what i tried to fix and i i just can't beat that and

[00:22:55] usually with that conversation person was like okay that's cool and sometimes it would

[00:23:00] guilt them and do a little bit better dietary compliance but we're really good at what we

[00:23:05] we did understanding the neuro-regulation of appetite being uh i actually cared about these people

[00:23:11] you know like i wanted to see them succeed and it was hard as fuck to get them to change

[00:23:17] and and the recidivism and all that type of stuff so the the high-minded like oh it's not

[00:23:24] natural and you need to do it the hard way like i don't even know who these people are

[00:23:28] i guarantee you they don't have successful businesses working with people like they they

[00:23:32] train like three people a month and and that's it like i i i the people that i've seen this refrain

[00:23:38] they're usually like uh a tiny following they haven't written or contributed anything to anything

[00:23:46] and and uh yeah and because they don't actually get in and look somebody in the eye and need

[00:23:51] to like serve them to be able to keep lights on and the bills paid when you do that there

[00:23:56] there's a degree of i sound like a huge dick most of the time but actually there's a lot of

[00:24:01] empathy involved with doing this stuff like i gotta sit down and meet this person somewhere

[00:24:06] where it's mutually beneficial you know i i can't just bowl them over and force them to do it and

[00:24:11] i also am not just going to fold under and and you know compromise all my values on it

[00:24:16] you know and so if there's this thing if the person is struggling horrifically and i know

[00:24:22] they are because the deck is stacked against them i said this in my second book why are d if you are

[00:24:28] when we understand the evolutionary biology of the neural regulation of appetite if you live

[00:24:34] in the modern world and you are not fat sick diabetic and broken it's a miracle it's a miracle

[00:24:41] you know like you it's magic that you manage to like wiggle your way through the system and not be

[00:24:47] in that situation because everything about the current world is stacked in favor of obesity

[00:24:55] and weight gain and sickness like everything is so if we have one one get out of jail free

[00:25:01] card or one you know magic rabbit out of a hat like thank god for that you know and and we'll

[00:25:07] kind of see where that takes us yeah well i guess we'll see because it's not going anywhere

[00:25:12] it's not going anywhere yeah yeah uh let's shift slightly your album like element founder of that

[00:25:19] company right the i mean it seems like this brand and product has hit the market by storm i mean wait

[00:25:27] when did you found it like three four years ago it's it's everywhere it we started it officially

[00:25:34] the very end of 2018 so it was like a soft launched December of 2018 myself and then the keto gains

[00:25:42] guys they kind we kind of put that out to our communities and like hey we have this electrolyte

[00:25:47] product if you're interested you can kind of pre-order it and so 2019 was the first kind

[00:25:54] of official year which is a great year to you know launch in something right at the end of it

[00:25:58] we're like oh my god the world's gonna gonna end but yeah we and it's a pretty interesting story that

[00:26:05] it came from me discovering or recognizing that because i have to eat a low carb ketogenic

[00:26:12] type diet to deal with autoimmune and gut issues like i i like eating this way but i would love

[00:26:18] to be able to like throw down some white rice and different things but i get glycemic issues i

[00:26:23] get autoimmune issues and i have i have these gut issues that that flare up with all this stuff so

[00:26:29] i have to eat this way or else i'm gonna gonna die or i'm gonna have a really you know sick

[00:26:34] unhealthy kind of existence and so it was louise villas and you're one of the co-founders of

[00:26:40] keto gains that helped me figure this out and when we first arrived at all this stuff i was like

[00:26:46] oh my god like if these are my issues and i looked at the the crowd that i'm usually

[00:26:51] serving and like 90 95 of the problems that the folks that i i try to serve most of their

[00:26:58] issues are probably electrolyte related specifically sodium and so interesting we we put together a

[00:27:04] free downloadable guide called how to make your own keto aid we just called it keto aid and

[00:27:10] it basically told you how much table salt potassium chloride lemon juice water stevia

[00:27:17] and go and we didn't have this wasn't a lead magnet there wasn't an email that we got you know

[00:27:24] to get this thing it was just up but within six months we had a half million downloads of it

[00:27:29] and and i got were like raving about the keto aid and they were tagging us on social media

[00:27:34] that like thank you so much i feel so much better to dressing all these problems but the

[00:27:39] you know the one issue that i have is that when i go through tsa with three bags of white powder

[00:27:45] like the tsa doesn't really like that all that much so if you guys ever thought about like a stick

[00:27:50] pack or a scooper or something you know i would buy it and so we started getting just a ton of

[00:27:57] interest like that like people saying thank you for the keto aid but if you ever do a more

[00:28:03] convenient play then we would love to do that and i would have never thought that there was this

[00:28:08] space in the electrolyte world for another player but when you really look at still even

[00:28:15] people in this this scene they don't really understand electrolyte physiology like a prime

[00:28:22] not knocking on those guys but they rightly acknowledge that americans and westerners by

[00:28:28] and large consume too much sodium as part of the diet get too little potassium with the

[00:28:34] diet and so they they have this like 800 milligram you know potassium 100 milligram sodium type

[00:28:42] type deal and it get the logic there the problem is it doesn't work in real life like you're

[00:28:46] getting killed people with oh they've seen some problems with that stuff when you

[00:28:52] sweat when you're dealing with altitude issues when you exercise you lose 99.9

[00:29:00] sodium very very little magnesium and potassium and so you end up in this

[00:29:06] sodium deficient state really quickly if you're on any type of a low carb diet and generally any

[00:29:12] type of diet cleanup when you clean up your diet you eat less processed foods and processed foods

[00:29:18] are where americans get 85 percent of their sodium so whether it's paleo or vegan or what have you

[00:29:25] if you eat a clean diet you usually see your sodium absolutely plummet and what do people do who

[00:29:32] eat cleaner diets they tend to exercise they tend to do other stuff and then their sodium needs

[00:29:37] increased and so it was literally hidden in plain sight this massive need for an a sodium forward

[00:29:47] electrolyte product gatorade when it was originally released was a gram of sodium

[00:29:52] and over time it has gone down to the low levels that it is on sodium and the high levels

[00:29:56] that it has on sugar so we've talked to a number of people in this scene like manufacturers and

[00:30:04] people in the flavoring part of this world and they really feel like element was like a category

[00:30:12] creator like there wasn't really this category before this kind of like sodium forward

[00:30:17] category and there's lots and lots of players in there now but it arrived at dealing with my issues

[00:30:23] first and then recognizing that my issues were probably similar to a lot of the folks that we

[00:30:28] serve and then when we tried to help the people in our communities we did it via a freemium

[00:30:34] model first here's this free guide go use this and now even though we have this premium thing

[00:30:41] you know the stick packs and all that stuff we still really lean into that that free make it

[00:30:48] yourself guide because if you don't like stevia or you want a different flavor or you know like a

[00:30:53] million gosh i thought i had this turned off sorry all these other issues then it's like well here

[00:30:59] use our downloadable guide and just this episode of the future of fitness is brought to you by

[00:31:04] our friends at wadify i own james for the better part of a decade there are a lot of options when

[00:31:10] it comes to gym management softwares and the cost and stress of migrating from one to another is

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[00:32:06] future of fitness that's wod ify.com forward slash future of fitness now on to the show

[00:32:18] make sure you get the electrolytes correct and then all the flavorings and everything do it however

[00:32:22] you want to do it you know we just want to make sure that you're doing this stuff right

[00:32:26] and they tell you from a customer experience perspective that's been genius because it's like

[00:32:32] I don't like stevia okay well we have our raw unflavored that it doesn't have stevia doesn't

[00:32:37] have any other stuff well I don't like this okay well then use our free downloadable guide just

[00:32:43] make sure that you get this much sodium this much potassium this much magnesium and you can't believe

[00:32:48] how somebody who's just mad and they want to be mad at the world and they want to be mad at us

[00:32:53] and we have an answer that doesn't involve like trying to get them to sell by our product it's like

[00:32:57] if you want our product get our product it tastes really good that's the only magic there but we're

[00:33:02] not going to tell you that there's magic sodium in it there you know it's plain sodium chloride

[00:33:08] plain potassium chloride it's magnesium maly you know there's nothing magical about any of

[00:33:14] that stuff it's all commoditized it's good quality but it's commodity shit like there's

[00:33:20] nothing magical about it and we're never going to say any different we did do some really fantastic

[00:33:25] work on the flavoring and that's why they taste super good but if you want to make it at home and

[00:33:29] do your own stuff then do it but it's been kind of a cool thing because our cx our customer experience

[00:33:36] you know process people not infrequently will write in and they add some some gripe and it's

[00:33:42] like well okay we can give you a free box or we can do this or you can do the raw unflavored

[00:33:46] or you can do the mix it yourself and it just it's like we're coated in Teflon like people can get all

[00:33:52] angry at us and everything but it's like we're fully transparent with everything and you're happy to be

[00:33:57] angry but like we're not going to give you anything to be angry about because we're not going to tell

[00:34:01] you you know are just the best I think it's good I think it tastes good but if somebody has a

[00:34:06] better tasting one fuck get that one like I'll buy you the first box of the other one and you

[00:34:10] can compare it you know I don't care so yeah it does taste really good I drink it daily but I really

[00:34:17] liked and it took me a minute to figure out that it's supposed to be a hot drink is the chocolate

[00:34:20] variations that I have oh man I love it yeah my sweet tooth it gets me there so it's been

[00:34:27] it's been a really good product man I really enjoy it and go I honestly haven't been a huge fan of the

[00:34:32] chocolate like I think it was a good idea but I finally so I haven't been able to do regular

[00:34:37] dairy for ages but then I figured out this thing with a two dairy that I can handle that

[00:34:43] and I put a number of the chocolates chocolate chocolate caramel chocolate chai in a glass of

[00:34:49] a two milk with a couple of ice cubes and oh my like chocolate milk it's chocolate milk is basically

[00:34:55] what it is and oh my god it is so good and I'll I'll do that as a post workout recovery

[00:35:01] thing because it's got a little bit of protein it's got a little carbs got a little fat

[00:35:04] and it tastes amazing and I can just like shotgun it down it just tastes phenomenally but

[00:35:09] before that I was really blasé about the chocolate flavors I was stoked that people liked them but I

[00:35:14] wasn't personally a fan and then I figured out putting it in milk like oh my god this is awesome

[00:35:22] yeah yeah it's a it gets a little kid in you right the and you guys are working now I mean

[00:35:28] what is the focus for element is I think there's more like commercial partnerships where you

[00:35:31] guys are focusing on right with like gyms and help yeah like that so I mean we've we've been a really

[00:35:36] heavy direct consumer business building that that relationship but I want to say we have like nearly

[00:35:44] 5000 wholesale partners now so we haven't gone the traditional retail route like trying to get

[00:35:50] into like a target or a safe way or something like that we might do that at some point but what

[00:35:56] we've really tried to do is lean into partnerships with healthcare providers chiropractors naturopaths

[00:36:03] functional medicine doctors gyms so like the the gym I'm a part of straight blast gym it's a jujitsu

[00:36:09] and MMA gym that's global lots of those folks carry it and what's been fascinating I would have never

[00:36:17] predicted this but people actually walk in off the street to these gyms or chiropractic

[00:36:23] offices to buy element you know like they they will be on a subscription but it's eight days until

[00:36:29] their subscription is going to going to fire off and they're out and they'll drop into these spots

[00:36:35] and then buy an extra box and I would have never in a million years predicted that but that has become

[00:36:41] maybe 25 percent of of our total business and last year we we passed 206 million dollars in sales

[00:36:49] and and so I mean it's it's it's going really it's going really well yeah yeah it very very fortunate

[00:36:56] very lucky a really amazing team of people but that curated wholesale partnership has has been

[00:37:05] this really really big deal for us yeah because you know like my coach Ricky Davidson somebody's

[00:37:11] doing jujitsu they get a cramp they feel exhausted afterwards he's like dude you need some element

[00:37:16] he'll give him one of our sample packs and then they use it like oh this is amazing and then they

[00:37:22] they start buying it and so whether it's kairos or doctors or coaches it's a really it's the drug

[00:37:29] deal model it's like first one's free and then you try it and you you generally feel much better

[00:37:36] with it and we still you will tell people about the like homebrew and all that type of stuff

[00:37:41] but it's just enough of a pain in the ass to go make it yourself that even though the

[00:37:47] stick packs aren't cheap you're kind of like I'll I'll make a homebrew I'll make a big bottle of it

[00:37:52] and save it and and then I'll when I go to the gym or I do this stuff where it's inconvenient

[00:37:57] I'll use the stick pack you know so they end up doing a mix of that stuff yeah it's a great

[00:38:03] product and you know I I know you've been in this industry for a long time so it's great to

[00:38:08] see you know truly strike gold with something like this I mean like luck is a residue of design right

[00:38:13] a lot of years putting your name out there putting yourself out there so it's really good to see and

[00:38:17] I think well you know listening to a podcast you're you're on a couple months ago one thing

[00:38:22] that's really exciting about this is I think we have both have a very strong interest in

[00:38:25] sustainability right and I know you're tying in the company vision to food sustainability in

[00:38:31] particular you know I you and I talked about a company else part of Flathead Bio Solutions

[00:38:36] you know doing great it's still it's still barely breathing but it's out there right with some

[00:38:40] really interesting technology about you know regenerated you know regenerative agriculture

[00:38:45] soil health things like that and obviously you know bookstaker cow that really hurts people

[00:38:50] to go pick that up and read it because it's a big problem we have the solutions we need we're

[00:38:54] just not applying them at scale so maybe tie tie in sustainability into the element vision

[00:38:59] and educate us a little bit there sure it doesn't uh it's not an obvious like link into that stuff

[00:39:07] but because we are a nicely profitable business we've been able to look at some things like acquiring

[00:39:14] land putting that into truss which which then can you can do these wildlife easements and what

[00:39:21] not which basically it sets that land up such that in theory it can never be developed you're

[00:39:27] basically leaving it as like a natural habitat or like you know maybe 10 of it can be used for

[00:39:34] agricultural purposes and then the 90 percent of it is uh an easement the interesting thing is when

[00:39:40] you you take a patch of dirt and you you put it into that the wildlife easement kind of pathway

[00:39:48] whatever the market value is of that land can then be a tax offset so if it's a 200 million dollar

[00:39:58] potential you know development value that day you get a 200 million dollar potential

[00:40:05] tax you know ease and and there's there's interesting things you need to do to to make

[00:40:10] all that stuff work but it's really interesting and there's there's a lot of value to it and

[00:40:16] so that's one area that we've been looking into and then we we also at a personal level this isn't

[00:40:22] at a company level with the our CEO James Murphy and I have really been looking into personally

[00:40:29] investing and hopefully working with people who are I'm a huge fan of nuclear energy

[00:40:36] and I'm also very fascinated by the potential of developing sustained fusion energy and so

[00:40:41] over the course of the rest of my life I'm going to put a lot of my resources into that type of stuff

[00:40:47] I think wind and solar have a very small place and the bulk of that place currently is in

[00:40:56] distracting people and I think it's going to kill people ultimately because it's not actually

[00:41:02] a great energy density story I could give you the the link to a fantastic podcast with this

[00:41:09] guy who is a geophysicist but he he mentions that for us to be able to make all the wind turbines

[00:41:17] alone that they're projecting that we need to get we need to mine six times more copper than is known

[00:41:25] to exist on the planet and then even if we we just waved a magic wand we had all the wind

[00:41:32] all the solar that we in theory needed today that energy density is so diffuse it is it it's so spread

[00:41:40] out you can't make wind and solar components using wind and solar as the energy input so it's a

[00:41:50] completely unsustaining and I hope people call bullshit on this I hope they call bullshit

[00:41:55] honest and then they get in and investigate it because when you start investigating it you

[00:41:59] look at the amount of resources are being dumped into sustainable solutions you get the sense or

[00:42:05] I get the sense and I think anybody else with an IQ above room temperature we get the sense that our

[00:42:11] governments are trying to kill us if this is the direction that they're investing it you know

[00:42:17] this wind and solar thing so I'm really going to lean heavily into investing and and trying to

[00:42:23] develop conventional nuclear energy small modular reactor storium and things like that

[00:42:29] and then on the like you know micro plastics and garbage and all these different things it's really

[00:42:35] a bastard to deal with that stuff like do you dump it in the ocean do you landfill it if you

[00:42:40] landfill it there's these issues with that um incineration is actually kind of an interesting

[00:42:46] option but there's a lot of pollution associated with that there's some greenhouse gas emissions

[00:42:50] that are concerning but there's this this thing called a plasma incinerator which is very energy

[00:42:57] intensive but if you have energy that's too cheap to meter like it if electricity is just like

[00:43:04] just give it away like it's not even it's not even worth metering which has has been kind of the

[00:43:08] promise since the 1950s if we really leaned in heavily on some of these uh nuclear energy

[00:43:13] sides but a plasma incinerator burns things at like 7 000 degrees so it burns so hot

[00:43:20] that there's no like carbon monoxide left there is no weird organic solvents left what it ends up

[00:43:27] doing is it reduces everything to elements the carbon is the carbon the chloride is the chloride

[00:43:33] the the palladium is the palladium and you can dump just about anything into this and it will

[00:43:39] reduce it down to its constituent elements or pretty close to it it's really energy intensive

[00:43:46] it costs a lot of energy but again if energy is super cheap then like the garbage and landfill

[00:43:53] and and all of that side of micro plastics being out in the environment largely gets dressed because

[00:43:59] you just nuke that stuff back to constituent parts and if energy is that cheap you really could

[00:44:06] then start sequestering carbon out of the atmosphere and via basic synthetic chemistry

[00:44:12] go from carbon dioxide and build it all the way up to plastics or lipids or whatever it is that you

[00:44:19] want we can do that today it's just really really energy costly and uh this is where like still

[00:44:26] plants are so favorable with with textiles and lipids and food because the sun although diffuse

[00:44:34] we you know two-thirds of the earth's landmass are our grasslands and so those are great places

[00:44:39] to grow protein, carbs and fat in the form of plants and then use those like cotton or corn or

[00:44:46] soybeans or whatever for the different things that we're doing but investing in it so this isn't like

[00:44:52] a a an element company value this is more of a founder's value but we're definitely going to put

[00:44:59] energy and our energy and our money which is are basically one of the same money is is basically

[00:45:07] form of concentrated energy we're going to put that really strongly into these

[00:45:11] nuclear development projects and i'm i'm really interested in developing like this

[00:45:17] high-temperature incineration process so that there's a viable way of dealing with garbage

[00:45:22] dealing with all that stuff so it doesn't get out in the environment and then actually

[00:45:26] you've got raw materials that you can unplug back into you know whatever manufacturing process

[00:45:31] you want to do yeah amazing man yeah i wish you the best of luck on that i have i think you and

[00:45:37] i talked years ago about you're interested you know kind of micro nuclear plants right and i think

[00:45:42] it's extremely promising nuclear from everything i've read so far just seems to be bastardized for

[00:45:47] some unknown reason right by media or whoever powers are to be who control those narratives

[00:45:53] so it's unfortunate but it's very very promising and i know there's a lot of people looking into

[00:45:56] now to you reason magazine had a really interesting piece on nuclear energy and it was

[00:46:02] right as it should have been really taking off three mile island happened and which was a

[00:46:08] nuclear disaster there was a meltdown it was all contained but it scared the piss out of people

[00:46:13] and rightfully so on the one hand but then kind of this this environmental activism part got

[00:46:19] plugged into it and interestingly so people like governor Cuomo of of new york and stuff like that

[00:46:26] came out at really really vocal against nuclear energy and it turns out that he and his family

[00:46:33] were heavily invested in the infrastructure that delivers natural gas and when you don't lean

[00:46:41] into a nuclear then you do lean into natural gas and coal which is what the Cuomos were both

[00:46:48] the Cuomo family was super heavily invested in so yeah the Cuomos you know at the last few minutes

[00:46:54] because i know i'm probably going over a little bit here with you rob but the actually okay so this

[00:46:58] is a nice segue because i think the last time i really invested some time and energy into

[00:47:03] nuclear energy was listening to a joe rogan podcast yet uh someone here really was a pro

[00:47:08] nuclear gave the whole history like i'm talking about really laid it out now you've been on

[00:47:11] rogan you know maybe just in a few minutes time express what that experience is like like i've heard

[00:47:18] a couple things like you don't call rogan rogan calls you right like you know so how has that

[00:47:23] experience been how influential is that podcast and then you know what happened afterwards and

[00:47:28] we're nervous like give us all all the human you know experience of being on that show yeah

[00:47:33] definitely nervous in particular like i don't have much going on today but like i have essential

[00:47:38] tremor syndrome and in some days particularly if i get really wound up and nervous it's it's bad

[00:47:44] and so that that's kind of an anxiety point but i had been on rogan two earlier times one way back

[00:47:52] another one when wired to eat was launched and i guess a thing like joe gave me his cell phone

[00:47:58] number and every once in a while he would pop up and he's like hey man what do you think about

[00:48:02] this what do you think about that and i would i would give him my thoughts but i really

[00:48:07] occasionally i would ping him something i'm like hey i think you might find this interesting and

[00:48:11] then i get a thank you but very very respectful of the amount of like influx that he probably gets

[00:48:19] i'm nothing to no one and like my email inbox is like hey rob we've got the newest whiz bang

[00:48:25] thing to help you an element like scale and i've got a couple of hundred emails a day on that

[00:48:31] and then just people i love going on podcasts i really enjoy doing it i feel like i've got some value

[00:48:38] to add but there's only so much time in the day so i've got like some you know some inbound around

[00:48:43] that stuff and like i don't probably 10 years of my life isn't a day of the the social exposure

[00:48:53] that joe has when you think about like a podcast reaching billions of people like it's crazy

[00:48:59] my first podcast over its whole run ended up accruing 34 million downloads over the whole run

[00:49:06] over like seven years which was really good for the time that's a huge success podcast weren't

[00:49:11] weren't that big at the time but now like singular episodes of podcasts get 100 million downloads

[00:49:17] you know okay crazy but so like for the for the third time that we were on there i did ping

[00:49:23] joe i'm like hey no obligation but like we've got this movie and book sacred cow it's all

[00:49:29] about sustainability if you'd like to have us on would love to do it he was going to have us on

[00:49:35] and then covid happened and then not just covid happened but the uh the snowpocalypse in texas

[00:49:41] happened where like everything shut down and like diana rogers was was trapped in a hotel

[00:49:47] and like downtown austin and it was starting to look like the zombie apocalypse down there

[00:49:51] and everything and so he was like i'm really sorry we're gonna have to pawns and so i actually

[00:49:56] ended up moving to calla spell and then it was a good six months later and i paint i'm like hey

[00:50:03] whenever you have some time if you still want to do this would love to do it and and he immediately

[00:50:08] got back he's like yeah let's let's knock this out let's do it and so we went there and uh

[00:50:13] joe's just gregarious friendly he uh he sniffs out bullshit like crazy like just if you're

[00:50:21] if you're trying to make something up it's almost like like a cop or something we're like

[00:50:27] something's not ad-hep here you know so like you really you want to remain pretty factual and

[00:50:32] if you're going to speculate you're like hey i'm guessing it like if you if you do some caveats

[00:50:36] it's like here's the facts as i understand them i'm really going to speculate here and

[00:50:41] you know and then he'll give you some some latitude on that if i had one critique of joe

[00:50:47] and actually i think that it that has gotten less over time but earlier on you'd feel like you were

[00:50:53] making some big point and then he would go off on some tangent and i would feel like you kind of lose

[00:51:02] him and i would see that another guess but i feel like that has actually mitigated over

[00:51:07] over time he really tends to stay with the course and if he has a question he's like hey i

[00:51:12] want to i want to shift gears or you know whatever but there there was a period of time where if i had

[00:51:17] a criticism it was uh you would just say one offhand thing but you're trying to go it north

[00:51:23] and the offhand thing kind of alluded east and then he would just fucking send the whole thing

[00:51:27] east and it would kind of occasionally drive it off of a cliff i don't know what what else like

[00:51:33] uh so i i think for me like i've been super super respectful of his space and his time if

[00:51:41] he reaches out to me i'm more than happy to try to help him ever once in a while i i will encounter

[00:51:47] something that i think is interesting but i'm i'm also like i'm pretty aware that there's like a

[00:51:52] billion people who are probably seeing similar shit so it has to be like really really unique

[00:51:58] for me to bother reaching out to him because i figured that somebody else has eyeballs on it

[00:52:02] and i just don't want to be the the 20th person that sends him this thing that i think is

[00:52:07] interesting and i i think that because i've been super respectful of that like people like him and

[00:52:13] tim ferris and other folks that i have a pretty good relationship with like when i really need

[00:52:18] some help from them they're usually willing to do it man i i'll save it 10 years i'm not i'm not

[00:52:23] trying to to shake him down constantly and for people in the the industry that are trying to

[00:52:30] elevate themselves it just fucking takes time i'm 25 years into doing this i've been chipping

[00:52:36] away at this stuff for 25 years i'm now 52 years old half of my life i've been working to to build

[00:52:42] some degree of bandwidth and credibility and whatnot and there are lots of people that come in

[00:52:46] and and build a platform much quicker than i do and and usually what i what i notice around that

[00:52:53] is they pick a really polarizing personality approach and this is some of the counseling

[00:52:58] to get and even the social media algorithms reward polarization and so i i i get that but like if you

[00:53:07] being of service being valuable being trustworthy putting the other person ahead of your own needs

[00:53:13] like that will serve you really really well and you'll have somebody that in that that either

[00:53:20] really key moment or like a dark moment where you need some help like your kid gets cancer

[00:53:26] and you you hope that maybe rogan or ferris or somebody could hook you up with with like the

[00:53:31] best person in in germany or france or something like that that you're like hey i i hate to bother

[00:53:37] you but this thing happened and can you help me then they're like yeah this guy's always been

[00:53:41] really good and he's never asked for a goddamn thing and so here you go yeah awesome man yeah

[00:53:47] it's always curious i think you know i i always said like one of my life goals is to get on rogan

[00:53:51] because i know i would have done something worthy right it's not necessarily the experience of being

[00:53:57] on the show but it's like okay i've done something that's worth a 20 million 100 million person audience

[00:54:03] right i don't know what that is yet be quite honest with you maybe it's micro nuclear i don't know

[00:54:08] right uh but we'll see man uh well rob i uh i could you know there's a bunch of other topics

[00:54:13] i want to get to you but you know time is time you know if if people want to uh learn more

[00:54:18] about what you're doing reach out to you personally i mean i know there's rob wolf.com

[00:54:22] is there any other place that you'd like people to go or is that the summation that's probably the

[00:54:26] best place like the only social media i'm doing at all is on x and it's at rob wolf i don't do a

[00:54:34] ton there but that's kind of the only thing i'm doing i am tinkering with the sub stack

[00:54:39] and so i've i've got a little bit of stuff uh if you just search rob wolf with two bees over

[00:54:45] at sub stack you'll you'll find that i haven't generated a ton but i i've got a lot of i probably

[00:54:50] have 20 different articles that i've started and are on in various degrees of of completion and so

[00:54:57] i'm hoping to just kind of get some of that that going over time i some health but a lot of uh

[00:55:04] economics politics uh politics light politics being the interface between health climate change

[00:55:13] energy because i feel like all those things are really woven together and i feel like i've

[00:55:17] got the chops to comment on on that type of stuff so yeah that's kind of the place and what what i've

[00:55:24] had coconut blade awesome and uh and for people who want to learn more too that you have a really

[00:55:29] good podcast a healthy rebellion with with your wife nicky um very good you guys are consistent

[00:55:34] and you put out really good information like i said you're you're kind of well not kind of

[00:55:38] you are when there are very few people i can think of immediately when i want to get some

[00:55:43] truth when it comes to world nutrition and health because there's so much bullshit so

[00:55:47] thank you again for being that person really appreciate it and uh yeah ladies and gentlemen

[00:55:51] rob wolf thank you hey wait don't leave yet this is your host eric malzone and i hope you

[00:56:00] enjoyed this episode of future of feminist if you did i'm going to ask you to do three

[00:56:05] simple things it takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way we really appreciate number one

[00:56:10] please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it itunes spotify castbox whatever it may be

[00:56:16] number two please leave us a favorable review number three share put on social media talk about it

[00:56:24] to your friends send it in a text message whatever it may be please share this episode because

[00:56:28] we put a lot of work into and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value

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[00:56:43] in touch with me as i'd love to hear from our listeners so thank you so much this is eric

[00:56:48] malzone and this is the future of fitness have a great day