Rick Richey - The State of Personal Training

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[00:03:27] Rick Ritchie, welcome to the Future of Fitness. It's good to be in the future, my friend. Thank you. How are you doing? We're not there yet. We're there now. It's always the present. We weren't there a second ago, but we are now. I thought every moment of that. Yeah. Anyway, man, I've been looking forward to this for quite some time. You and I connected in person when we were in New York for the Beyond Act event earlier this year in 2024.

[00:03:55] You and I have collaborated on some content in the podcast world. You are obviously a prolific podcaster, I'll say. I was just looking at your stuff and I was like, man, I think you've done... You found out how prolific I am. I didn't even know. I was like, you've done 457 episodes. You're like, I have? That's wild to me. That is wild to me. Well, at least, man. Because that's... So you host the NASM CPT podcast. You also... I know you jump into a couple of the other NASM podcast networks. So we're going to dive into a lot of stuff today.

[00:04:25] I think what you're doing at ITS, and you'll describe what that is, Recover, and the podcast and education world, you're knee deep in. I would love to talk about the state of personal training as a profession and where you think that is. I mean, you obviously have your fingers strongly on the pulse of what's going on in that industry. So before we get into all that, Rick, just do me a favor, summarize your background, and then we'll take it from there. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

[00:04:51] So I started in fitness in 2002, and I was a collector of education. So I was like, how many certifications can I get? What are all the top ones? And then I decided to go back to school. So I went back to school and got a master's in exercise science. So I went back to school again, got an associate's after my master's. That was weird. But that was for massage therapy.

[00:05:17] And then eventually went back to school for my doctorate in health science. So that's an education background. I started as a personal trainer in 2002 and eventually went from a big corporate gym to residential fitness, which they have a lot in New York City, which is where I'm based. So there are residential gyms, and you go and you train people in the gym in their building. And then I traveled with a guy for three years.

[00:05:46] That's what I did. I had one client, just went on the road and worked with him. While I was doing that, I was teaching exercise science for the National Academy of Sports Medicine, which I started in 2006 and started the podcast. It's fun because you get this point where you get back from, I was training this guy for a few years, came back, opened a gym, which I had told my wife. I was like, I've got a concept. There are concepts of gyms out there that are horrible.

[00:06:15] And then I was like, hey, I got this concept for a gym. And she goes, what? And I told her. And she goes, didn't you tell me like three years ago that was a horrible idea? And I was like, it was before I decided I wanted to do it. And then I think what really changed, and this is going into the gym business, the independent training spot, is that there are a lot of people that have independent training gyms, but there was no brand. No brand existed.

[00:06:44] It was just like Kim's Gym and Tim's Gym. And everybody that had independent trainers just had their own gyms, but it wasn't specifically branded for that type of work. So I started a gym in 2014 and now have five gyms and also within that time started a recovery business. And I'd like to say that I did not jump on the bandwagon, Eric.

[00:07:10] I was the very first recovery business to exist with multiple modalities. So we were the world's first comprehensive recovery studio that we opened in early 2018. So I'd like to say that everybody else is on my bandwagon. So you're welcome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Rick, for changing the industry. Yeah. That was quite a solid power move there.

[00:07:38] So I want to get into the independent training spot first, and then we'll talk about how the personal training is. I think that'll dovetail nicely. So what's the model? I mean, at five locations, I didn't realize you had that many. And I've seen similar concepts roll out. But New York City seems like a great spot to do it. It seems like problems are very... People really feel the problems right there and the struggles. So let's start with that.

[00:08:03] When you had the concept, what was the main problems that you were looking to solve that you had identified? Yeah. So great question. This is where I go with a lot of trainers trying to figure out who they are in the industry and what they want to do. And I tell them, you've got to find a hole in the market, and that's your ideal place. The place that you don't want to go is where everybody else is. It doesn't mean you can't go there. It just means that you're going to have potentially more of a struggle.

[00:08:31] But with Independent Training Spot, ITS is a home for independent trainers. So what we do is we provide the gym, we provide the equipment, the showers, the towels, the location, the gym for people to train, and the trainers rent space from us. So I bring it up to people, and they're like, oh, it's like a salon model. And I go, I don't know. I don't know anything about salons. But it's like a WeWork. It's a co-working space for personal trainers.

[00:09:01] So the trainers rent space from us. And at the time, and even to this point, which has been over 10 years now, Eric, I don't know if there's any brand that's specific for independent trainers. I do know that there are gyms that allow for independent trainers. I know that there are corporate gyms that also allow independent trainers in. But I'm not sure I know any gyms that that's their business model.

[00:09:26] And if it is, it's a one-off, which means they have a gym, maybe another gym. I'm trying to create the gym pyre when it comes to independent trainers so that they can rent space and run their own business. And I think that started a lot with so many people asking the question, what's my what's next? And trainers ask that all the time. And a lot of times they jump immediately to, I want to open my own gym.

[00:09:56] And I think that you can baby step that. You can, but you can baby step that with an independent training gym. Like if you're, if you want to try to open your own training business first, let's see if that works. Because if you can't get training clients, don't open a gym. Like that's not, that's not your play. But if you can open your own training business and rent space to do it, build your business that way.

[00:10:24] And then you start asking that question again, what's my what's next? Then there's a potential where you can also do that. Excuse me. And with that, we also will partner with some of our trainers or we have partnered with some of our trainers who have said, hey, I want to do something else. And we'll say, okay, well, would you like to operate and be a part owner of an independent training spot?

[00:10:49] And then we kind of work with them to set up a gym in a location that we believe is sensible. And we allow them to take the reins and operate it and take care of it. And, you know, be the custodian of a place that they can treat with all intents and purposes as their own and run the gym business and still have their training business out of it. Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:11:15] You and I were just talking the typical trainer, a coach who loves what they do. They're good at it. They probably built, you know, a solid client base at another health club or a gym or somewhere that they're training at. There's a hefty percentage due to overhead that that gym is probably taking. But then so someone like kind of this, this happens all the time. And I've seen it happen sometimes like someone whispers in their ear, be like, you know what? You're a great trainer. You should have your own gym. Right. And then and then they're like, hmm, now the bug is there.

[00:11:45] Right. It's starting to grow. And then maybe months or a period of time elapses. And then they say someone comes to him like, you know, I could help you fund it. Right. And they're like, ooh. And then next year, yeah, they're opening a gym. They're buying the URL. They're doing all the business type stuff. And then months in, they're open and they're like, you know what? I'm barely training anybody anymore. I'm way too busy on the business side. It's way more than I thought it was going to be. And then they kind of loathe the days of being a trainer. And that's all they have to worry about.

[00:12:15] I feel like that story is pretty common. What do you think? Is that something you've heard? You talk to a lot more trainers than I do. Yeah. So it starts. Usually it starts with people that do that within a corporate gym setting. And they go, oh, you're a really good trainer. Would you like to be a manager? And then they go, oh, wow, that sounds good. And now I'll have consistent money. And then they spend the next six months signing off on checks to trainers who are making more money than they are and working half the time.

[00:12:45] And then they go, oh, man, I wish I could just be a trainer again. Life was so much better than a trainer. And then they go back to being a trainer. And then they go, oh, man, now I have to find my own clients. Now I have to. You know, so if you're the person that's looking for the easy way, you ain't gonna find it. There's they're not really easy ways. And you're going to get somebody that says, hey, you're a great trainer. Let's open a gym.

[00:13:13] And clients who have money love the idea of having a gym. They love the idea, even if they don't make money on it. They are like, I own a gym in New York City. I own a gym in Tosla, Oklahoma. They love the idea of it. They don't love the idea of losing money necessarily. So the trainer who's training to make their ends meet, who is now also a gym operator,

[00:13:38] is now saying, well, I can't train as much because I've got my friend slash client slash guy I owe money to, who's breathing down my neck a little bit saying, hey, we got to get the numbers up. And so I don't have the capacity to train because I'm too busy making phone calls.

[00:13:54] And now nobody's happy because the idea of opening a gym and being a gym owner is is more alluring than the work of being a gym owner. And I have a I have a client. She's a personal trainer and a former gym owner. And we talk about it all the time. She's like, oh, I'm so glad I'm not. Every time I'm in the session, I go, I'm so sorry. Let me just take this real quick.

[00:14:22] And I hang up and she goes, I'm so happy that I don't have to do that anymore. So I'm not saying that I don't like it. I got to be honest. I love it. But Eric, I would not today put in the amount of work that I put in 10 years ago when I just started. Right. Like I've got plans. I've got systems in place. I've got the concept is down. The brand is solid.

[00:14:51] But it wasn't 10 years ago. And 10 years ago, I started as a gym owner who put in one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars of my own money that I saved up and borrowed one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars because and two hundred fifty thousand dollars doesn't get you a lot of gym, to be honest. But in New York City, rents are high. And then you say, OK, let's sign the lease. And they need four or five months of security up front.

[00:15:20] So now all of a sudden that two hundred and fifty thousand dollars that I had is not quite two hundred thousand dollars. So now I have a lot less money than I had to start. And I still don't have a gym yet. And so people get these ideas. Right. So I'm working. I think it was I was scheduled for 86 hours a week is how many hours at the gym I was because I was there from six a.m. to either eight or nine p.m.

[00:15:50] And then like 10 to one or nine to one on Saturday. And I was closed on Sunday. And just with those that five, five and a half days, it was 86 hours. And I have treatment tables, you know, athletic training tables, stretching tables that I would put together and I would sleep on them, you know, a day or two a week. And I call my wife and I would say, hey, it's 30 minutes for me to get home.

[00:16:18] It'll be 30 minutes for me to get back to work. That's an hour that I could be sleeping. So I'm just going to stay at the gym again. And that's how life worked for for a while until I figured out my systems. And, you know, I got I had to get over the shock of of the exhaustion and start putting systems in place that allowed me to to do what I needed to do to to be a business owner.

[00:16:44] And and and something else interesting happened to Eric is, you know, after a few months, people aren't showing up. And it took me a long time to to go in and open my own business. And there's a lot of anxiety that goes into it because you realize you're going to lose your money that you put into it. You're going to owe a bank back for the money that you failed at being able to make back. So I'm going to be training for a couple of years just to pay a bank back.

[00:17:13] You know, there's a lot of anxiety that went into it. And three months into it, I was like, oh, man, this may not work. And then I said something to myself that I thought was really telling was and this is the power of entrepreneurship, which is if this fails, what business will I open next? It took me it took me 30 something years to get to the point where I decided I wanted to open my own gym and I freaked out.

[00:17:41] And in the light of potential failure, I started asking myself what business I was going to open next. So all it took was a few months to be an entrepreneur and potentially fail at it to decide that I was going to keep being an entrepreneur. Yeah, that's a great story. And I think it's very telling of what it takes to be an independent gym owner and even a franchise or a franchisee like. Right. Yeah. You still have the brand, you have the systems. But man, we're not selling we're not selling McDonald's. We're not selling French fries. Right.

[00:18:11] We're selling work. Really? We are. Like we're selling discipline. We're selling things that it's not as easy. People want the result. They don't want all the time, the work that takes to get to the result. Oh, for sure. And that's the behavior change part of it. So as a product within itself, like you can't just open the door, waft some smells of French fries out the door and have people to walk in. Right. It's a different it's a different thing. And I think it's fundamentally it's very noble.

[00:18:39] Like there's no question that a lot of people come into this this industry and this profession with noble intentions. Right. Like we want to help people. We're passionate about health and fitness. But that passion. Wears out every once in a while or at least wears thin. Right. So you got to have something a little bit more. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. You know, and you wish you could just open the door and the smell of fitness would throw people in like a bagel chopper.

[00:19:09] Right. But it's not. But I will say this. We do sell something that's incredibly powerful, which is we're basically selling people hopes and dreams. Yeah. We're selling them hopes and dreams. And, you know, a lot of people will never reach those hopes and they will never reach those dreams. But what we do is we create a space for them to see reality. Right. That, you know, you're not going to look like Brad Pitt from Fight Club.

[00:19:40] But we also let them see in the process the pride that goes along with hard work, the longevity. Like what happens to your life when you say this is my goal. These are my hopes. These are my dreams. And then you say, OK, well, I can now adjust my dreams to fit a reality that is actually possible. And and part of that is also behavior change because the work, the hustle, the grind, the effort, the sweat, the cheers from other people in the gym.

[00:20:09] When you get a lift and your trainer is like, did y'all see that? Right. You know, like you get people involved in in our gyms. Every other person is a trainer because it's all one on one. One person's a trainer. One person's a client. There aren't members there. So everybody's stoked to see you succeed. And so the the culture that goes along with what you try to create and how you try to energize people and inspire people.

[00:20:38] But be real with them, too. Don't sell them. Yeah, dude, you're going to look like Brad Pitt from Fight Club. And then when they get in and you sell a 20 pack or whatever, then you go, hey, listen, just so you know, it's probably not going to happen, but we're going to work hard. Right. Like you need to be up front with that from the beginning and let them know, like I can I can put you to work. But there's if you see me twice a week, that's two hours and there's one hundred and sixty eight hours in a week. So what do you do with your other hundred and sixty six hours?

[00:21:08] And that's the value of the conversation that takes place in the gym. Not the not just the what did you do this weekend? Would you think about the Jets or the Bills or the Raiders? You know, like all these things. You just like a real conversation about you and your goals and your needs and in your reality. Because sometimes people's reality is I'll come and work in the gym really hard. But those other hundred sixty six hours are mine. I'm going to do what I want with it. And that's true. Do whatever you want with it.

[00:21:37] But let me be the Jiminy Cricket. Let me let the conscience be your guide on that so I can just be there and be present. And maybe you'll make decisions that will help with lifestyle, longevity and reaching some of those goals you're looking for. Awesome. Well said, man. Well said. And I want to ask you about the independent training spot as a brand. Like so my first thought was like that makes total sense. If I'm a trainer, I see that brand like independent training spot. OK, got it.

[00:22:07] That's for me. From a consumer standpoint, do they resonate with like supporting the independent trainer? Like how is that that branding? Yeah. How is that? How is that heard by the consumer? So usually the the trainers come with their clients and we will get clients. We'll get inquiries occasionally. But the the brand is really like you have a business.

[00:22:33] You have clientele train, train them at our place. And what happens is that we'll we'll charge a flat rate. So let's say, you know, at a at a commercial gym, let's say they charge one hundred dollars and they pay the trainer thirty dollars. Well, we'll just flip that model. And we say not even flip it. We'll say, hey, you pay us thirty dollars for that hour. You charge whatever you want. You want to charge sixty dollars. You're still making thirty dollars, but you're free. Right.

[00:23:02] Or you want to you want to charge a hundred dollars. Then you're making 70. That's more than twice what you were making before. Most people will try to meet in the middle. They'll go a little bit lower. Some people eventually will start raising their prices. And we've got people in New York. You can imagine that, you know, two hundred, two hundred and fifty dollars, three hundred dollars for a training session. I don't charge rates like that. And I have a master's and a doctorate. Right.

[00:23:31] So you talk about people and their branding. They can get out there and they're they're good, perfectly good trainers, but they are also not magicians. And at the end of the day, you pay your thirty dollars. You come in and train. And and that's where, you know, they can create a home and build their business. And they might make more money than I make at the gym. And that's God bless them. That's good for them. But another reason to say, like, sometimes being a gym owner is not the answer.

[00:23:59] Sometimes paying thirty bucks for a session and you're charging two hundred and thirty. And you're walking away with two hundred. Like you're doing just fine. So, you know, identifying where you are, where you want to be, who your clients are and how you can get there. For us, our brand, I took the name from conversations. So before I was an independent, well, before I was a gym owner, I trained a few people independently. And, you know, that's what we would say.

[00:24:28] We're like, hey, do you know an independent training spot downtown? Do you know an independent training spot on the upper east side or upper west side? Do you know an independent training spot down in Tribeca? And I was like, oh, man, when I open the gym, I'm just going to call it. I'm going to name it what we already call it. Right now. The problem with that, Eric, is that you cannot trademark that name because it is a description and you can't trademark it.

[00:24:53] And so anybody wants to know why if you look at brands and you're like, why can't brands spell? They always spell things weird. Like there's an X instead of a K. There's a Q instead of a K. Just spelled weird. It's because you can brand something easily when you misspell it because it's not a thing. Like nobody smells think with a Q or whatever inside of it. And so they're like, oh, so you can do think this.

[00:25:23] And it's not a description. It is now a brandable thing. And so I made the poor mistake, the brilliant idea that ended up being not a great idea, which is giving it a name that could not be branded or trademarked, which is why it's called Rick Ritchie's Independent Training Spot, because I could brand that even if people don't know who I am. They're like, who? It's Rick.

[00:25:50] And I'll meet people in gyms that I don't go to all the time. And I'll go, hey, I'm Rick. And they're like, that Rick? And I'm like, yeah. And they have no idea. So the name recognition is not luring anybody in, Eric. Like, it's just the idea that they can train independently and be their own boss. I'll also say the funny thing about being your own boss is you have dreams about what that means. Like, I'm going to be my own boss. I'm going to be an independent trainer.

[00:26:20] You still got to train when people want to train. So you think you're going to set your own hours, but you're not. You're going to train when they tell you that they can train. And you might have one of those dream jobs one day where you start at 6 a.m. and you're done at noon and you train straight through and you just lived your best life. Or you're the opposite. You're the late night person.

[00:26:44] Somehow, in some weird twilight zone, you can go in at 10 o'clock and be done at 4. But most of the times, you're going to have somebody at 6, 7, somebody at 9, maybe at noon, another at 3, another at 7 p.m. And you may not even have time to go home. So you have now spent a 12-hour day to train five sessions. Yeah. And that's, you know, you think you're going to set your own schedule.

[00:27:14] But that's a much more challenging thing to do in our business than most people think. Yeah. That brings in, I think, the next major topic for us is what is the state of personal training? And I want to set the table on this a little bit because I've said this. I know some other people who run franchises or, you know, in the coaching and personal training industry are adjacent to it. But I say that it's changing, like what people want out of it.

[00:27:43] You know, a lot of people, it's kind of a mix of being in a health club, being in a training spot, doing the actual personal training, like traditional way that we know it. But also, they want to be an influencer, right? So they have their social media, they want to have their affiliates, they want to do other things. So it's like the career path is changing. And the question is like, is it still a career path that people consider for 10, 20 years? Is it in danger of slipping into like a, you know, the gig economy where it's just a few hours here and there? They got other stuff going on.

[00:28:13] You know, how interested are people in the education like you and I, when we probably started our coaching and training and careers? Like I, same thing. I was like 12 certifications in two years, right? I just couldn't wait to get it all under my belt and learn everything I could. I was super excited about it. So does that exist or is that changing? Like, what are you noticing in the personal training career path? I think it's interesting because there, I see a lot of trainers and, you know, there's

[00:28:43] a bell curve with everybody and a lot of people kind of fit this middle of the road idea. And some people are really, really focused on the low end of the bell curve. Like, how much can I learn? How educated can I be? And I was one of those geeks, right? I want to know how much, but I'm also not a big guy. So I was like, well, what if my brain gets big? So maybe you'll believe me then. So I was like, let me, let me learn.

[00:29:11] But then you get the other end of the bell curve and I'll put social media there. And there are a lot of people who really want that social media exposure. And I've found that there are not a lot of people that are incredibly successful because they have a large following on social media, at least not in one-on-one personal training. So they might be able to sell programs.

[00:29:39] And I think that's a great business model. Like, you can write programs and deliver programs. Here's my 12-week beach booty breakthrough, whatever. I just made that up and I realized that I probably could have gone with something else. But with that said, people can come up with these programs. They sell it and then, you know, for whatever, a hundred bucks, then they can just click on it and then get people that can buy in and be interested.

[00:30:08] But when it comes to one-on-one personal training, that's always going to be there. People can do virtuals, but the one-on-one training, which is my business, my brand, what I focus on. After COVID, I had several people that never came back because they were like, I just do everything online. I do virtuals and that's how I do my business now. And I'm like, no overhead. Like, you just got to make sure you pay your electric bill and your cable and you're connected, right? Like, that's incredible. Good for you.

[00:30:37] There's always going to be a market for the in-person because... Hey friends, this is Eric Malzone. And this episode of The Future of Fitness is brought to you by The Podcast Collective. Since our inception in 2023, we have emerged as the fitness, health, and wellness industry's premier podcast placement agency. We're honored to work with many of the industry's most prominent technologists, thought leaders, startup founders, and business executives. Why?

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[00:32:02] People are going to push themselves and push hard. They're going to need your help. They're going to need you to spot them. They're going to need you to watch their form. They're going to need you to pay attention to them. They want to be present somewhere, but you can still be pulled. People, trainers that do that can still have social media presence, and they can still go for the big brains and be certified. But the problem is that you also have to find out,

[00:32:28] well, how do I turn my big brain into sales? How do I turn my social media into sales? I've got to be honest. I know people with hundreds of thousands of followers that don't train any more than the next trainer, and they may be able to eke out a few extra bucks for the training session because they're popular. So maybe they can do that, and they can get some extra money

[00:32:57] because they're marketing on their social media. But for the most part, I don't find that there are a lot of people that even have big followings that make good money as a personal trainer. So I would say if you've got a big following, you need to be selling programs online, and that market's becoming more and more saturated as well. But I mean, all you have to do is a little bit of work up front. And I always say it's better than spending money, right?

[00:33:27] So if you can spend your time instead of spending your money, then all you got to do is work. And if you're interested in it, it's like any other job. Sometimes any other business that you do, sometimes it's going to work out. Sometimes it's not. But at the end of the day, all you're going to say is, I put time into it, not I put time and a lot of money into it. So write out your programs, build your programs, see if you can sell them. Most people, I do think, if you're looking to sell programs,

[00:33:55] you should probably enroll in somebody else's program and see what they're doing. So that's the best way to identify, oh, okay, I want to set this up. I want it to look like this. And then you need to find a team of people that can help you get there. Because if you're just trying to figure out, how do I get my face to appear on a video, right? And I'm watching this and I want people to see this or how do I do all of these things as a content creator? And you see people do stuff on YouTube all the time. I see it. I'm like, I don't know how to do that.

[00:34:25] So I'm just going to talk to the camera. Because I will put in a little bit of content, but that's not my job job. You know, my job job is running the gyms and being a personal trainer. And I think in the future, I'll start to provide a lot more content. But for trainers now, there's a lot of opportunity, but you're not going to lose your in-person capacity to train. That's not going away. And I also think that, you know, putting, dipping your toe into every option

[00:34:55] is going to spread you out pretty thin. So you should probably identify what is it that you really want to do and then see if that makes sense for you. There's a lot of people, like you said, like, can I do a little bit of everything? And I think that you can, but you're probably not going to be good at any of it. And you're not going to be able to market to anybody. Like as a personal trainer, I want to market to somebody. I'm going to say, hey, I like to work with, I used to be athletes, right? I want to work with athletes, athletes, athletes. And then you work with

[00:35:25] a bunch of high-end athletes. And you're like, nobody appreciates the amount of work I do like older people. And so now I'm like, give me an old, uh, an old guy that has trouble balancing that it's going to come in and has incredible appreciation for everything I do. Not a six foot 10 basketball player. When I try to stretch his calves, it goes all the way up my arm and I'm stretching and I'm working my butt off to try to do something. And he's just like this the entire time.

[00:35:55] Cause they're all like 22 years old. Right. Like, I don't, I I'd rather, I'd make the same amount of money, whether I'd train, uh, an accountant or an NBA player. So I just, I, I've given up on, on all of the, the big names and the movies and the models and stuff like that. And I just, I like working with a group of people I work with. And I also don't like working with people who tell me, Hey, can you move them so that I can fit in your schedule? And I'm like, no,

[00:36:25] cause you're going to be gone after this movie's over and I'm not going to, and everybody else is going to be pissed because I was spent my entire time trying to, to placate you. And now I'm training them and they're like, Oh, am I important enough now? And I'm like, I charged the same amount. Everybody's important. So everybody works around each other. So if you, uh, would you say compared to 10 years ago that the, the personal training industry or the profession itself is healthier

[00:36:56] or the same? Or do you think it's maybe even improved? Like where, where do you think the profession is? So I'll speak from New York city. Uh, it seems to me to be in a very good place. So we are beyond the lull of COVID. My numbers at my gyms, they all seem to have gone up since even the pre COVID numbers. So I have a feeling that

[00:37:23] like we're doing a lot better. We're doing a lot better as a fitness industry. I will also say this too. We're, we're also quite the luxury spend. And, and I don't see that changing, but I will say this. Like if you want to really be busy early on in your career, you can do just fine by not charging exorbitant amounts. It's nice to be like,

[00:37:53] I work 20 hours a week and I, all my bills are paid and I'm happy. And then I can do whatever I want. I was like, if you're making that much money working 20 hours a week, try for 40, like try like a real job and make buku some money and save for retirement. And you know what I mean? Like put money away in a, in a self-employed 401k and make sure you're filling out your IRAs and put your money away and spend money on things

[00:38:21] that are going to move you forward. Like your education, put money into things like, you know, your, your investments and don't just say, I like to work the bare minimum charge as much as I can. And work as little as I can. Like that's, that doesn't sit really well with me. Like if you can do better, then you should probably aim that direction. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. And I, you know, uh, anecdotally here in the opposite of New York city, I'm in Northwest Montana,

[00:38:50] the GMI go to, uh, the personal trainers are seem to be very busy. You know, every time I walk in there, uh, they're, they're always, you know, there's at least three, you know, two or three women working with client. There's probably like five or six on staff, but they're busy. And I think it's great. And I see all ages, you know, I see from the, uh, teenager athlete, all the way up to majority of them are probably in the 65 plus, uh, clientele crowd, which I think I agree with you. It's, it's the most, uh,

[00:39:19] fulfilling group to work with for sure. So even here in a small town, it seems like it's, it's, it's pretty healthy. And, you know, there's all these, uh, conversations about, well, will artificial intelligence have an impact on, on the profession and, you know, a bunch of different things. So next question for you is like, how are you seeing technology, whether it be wearables, AI, any kind of biomarkers or you name it, like, uh, force plates, like all of it, right? How is technology affecting the personal training

[00:39:48] profession from your point of view? I think technology, like some of the things that you mentioned are really great for a lot of, uh, things like, um, strength and conditioning coaches where I want to, I want to prove to the coach, the head coach. If I'm, if I'm answering to somebody, then I want metrics to show that I'm, I'm getting you where you need to go.

[00:40:16] A lot of personal training is not as much that. So anybody just using a spreadsheet, can write down what your PR is on your squat, your deadlift and your bench and how many pull-ups you did. And, and then we can alter that and go, okay, we do this is our, our max for the hex bar high grip. And this is our max for the hex bar low grip. And this is make sure that we standardize our depth and all that. You don't need, you don't need the force plates and all, uh, you know, I see people, there's a trainer at the gym.

[00:40:46] He's got a little cube and it attaches to a bar. And I think it measures how fast they move. And that's cool. He's also a physical therapist. So he's looking at very specific things. It doesn't mean trainers can, but trainers are really, you know, our job is usually whatever the client says that they hired us for. And so AI is not really going to affect it. Your force plates are cool. Like everything's a tool,

[00:41:14] but nothing's the answer. And I think really where you're, we're going to find the greatest success is the greatest answer you're going to get is showing up and consistency, showing up and doing the work will always be the best thing. And you can tell people that, you know, get your, get your aura ring and check your sleep and check your this. I had an aura ring for a long time until I lost it. And I loved it. I didn't change my behaviors at all. It just let me know how terrible I was.

[00:41:44] I was like, you don't sleep, but I'm like, cool. Thanks again. So just because we have data, it doesn't mean that we use it. And we, if you can find usable data and, and I know that there are geeks out in the world like that, like, let me show you. And trust me, I'm, I'm a nerd when it comes to education, but a lot of the, a lot of the people love the idea of things. And then when,

[00:42:12] then it comes and goes and the best answer is still showing up to the gym and doing your lifts. You know, let's, you can measure your heart rate, like your heart rate go up. I love everything I need to do. It's going to be on my machine. How many meters did I get on my rower during this amount of time? How much time did it take me to ski or this amount of meters? What did I do on my, my assault bike or airdyne? Like you're, you're looking through everything that you need is right there because you just want to quantify.

[00:42:42] And all you do is say, I'm going to quantify this till I get to a point where I flatten out. And then let's go find something else. Cause once you flatten out, it's going to be really hard to beat that number. Does it mean you can't, but it does mean that you could be really, you can suck at the next exercise and immediately get better really fast. And every time you change your focus, you're going to be like, Oh, I'm terrible until the next week or two. And you're already beating those numbers because when you suck at something,

[00:43:12] it's the best, it's the best because you always get better really fast at the things that you're bad at. So the things that you're really good at, you see these like minute changes and it, and you know, that doesn't really inspire. What does technology do for us as it allows us to, to have even more means of checking and checking and checking. And I think a lot of times people are so exhausted with the amount of checking that they just want to be like,

[00:43:42] what's the, what's the least amount that I need to know in order to accomplish what I need to accomplish. I think that's how people are in general. What's the least amount I need to know. So I think it's cool. Like for me to be like, do you know that the bicep attaches about an inch distal to the joint? And so you have 18 inches from where you'd hold the barbell. So if you do a calculation and you curl a 20 pound weight, the muscle is actually lifting 200 and something pounds. And people are like, cool. What does that mean for me?

[00:44:12] And I'm like, it's just, it's cool. Right. And they're like, all right. That's how I feel about so many of the technologies. They're cool. But it doesn't change the fact that my goal is to make that 20 at 25 one day and see if I can do that curl again with heavier weight. I don't need to know that it's now 300 pounds of lift in my muscle. I just, you know, we, we like to, we like to make things seem so important and incredible.

[00:44:41] And I think from a scientific point of view, it's all very valuable. What does that mean to the consumer? It doesn't mean a lot, but I, I have hopes that there are things that, that AI can do to help provide people outside of the training programs. And there are trainers who are already using AI that's helping to support and create programming and long-term programming and incorporating what that means for somebody that has type two diabetes.

[00:45:10] And none of it means anything if you don't show up to the gym and do the work. So that, that's what we're here for. We're here for the, the showing up and doing the work portion. Right on, right on. Uh, last kind of topic I want to ask you is because you do so much education and content creation. Uh, obviously we mentioned the 457 podcast, which is just probably bare minimum given how many other shows you've been on. But what, what seems to be the content that personal trainers are most apt to consume is,

[00:45:38] is it about like the education around the training itself? Is it the business concepts? Is it the marketing? Like where, where do you, what do you think they're most interested in learning right now? Uh, well, I'll say this for the NASM CPT podcast. I did, uh, I'll, I did a study guide for the NASM CPT seven. Uh, that I think is by far the biggest, the most downloaded. So it's people who were studying to take their NASM certified personal trainer exam.

[00:46:08] Yes, that's probably number one. So now move that aside because the reason they're at NASM and listening to the podcast might be, I need something to help me with the exam. What I love is when I talk about things like failure and, and I'll mention that, that failure is, uh, an incredible learning tool if you let it become a learning tool. Right? So you've, you hear this in fight sports all the time.

[00:46:38] You either win or you learn, uh, doesn't mean you didn't lose. It just means that you take that losing opportunity to, to learn what not to do and how to progress. And I think that's kind of the takeaway from when I was failing at being a gym owner. And I thought, well, what can I do next now that I've learned what not to do? And I, fortunately, I think I learned what not to do and tried to make that change before I had to shutter the doors.

[00:47:03] So things like being okay with failure because we are so focused on being the best and trainers are very focused on not ever letting your clients see that you're a real person. Right. So there are some trainers who post like, this is my hamburger and these are my pancakes. And that's not helpful for a lot of your clients. But the person who says that I eat healthy, I do this.

[00:47:33] And this is also what I eat. And these are also hamburgers. And these are also pancakes and letting them know, like, it's okay. Like we're here to, to live a little. We're not here just to, to exist in dogma. But also sometimes I don't feel like working out. Sometimes I don't feel like doing the work and that's all right. Take a break and, you know, bolster yourself and get back to it. So identifying those things and, you know, being, and then the other thing too is I'll,

[00:48:03] I'll mention things like we've already talked about where I'm not a big fan of when somebody says I'm thinking about opening a gym or being my own business. I'm not the guy that's going to cheerlead you. I'm just not that dude. And I, I used to be. And then I've seen so many people fail along the way that I've seen a lot of people succeed too. So don't get me wrong. I, I see a lot of success, but man,

[00:48:31] I don't want to cheerlead you into making a decision that you haven't prepared for. And so now you got to prepare for it. And I've done episodes like when I opened my last gym and I did an episode, which was just grievances. My gym. And I'm like, y'all don't know how much it costs. Let me tell you. And I was like, this went wrong and this went wrong. And I paid this much. And this is, and I broke it down. Like, this is how much my dumbbells cost.

[00:49:00] And you get to the end of it and you calculate it. You say, okay, enter. And they go, great. Now we have to ship it to you. And that cost as much as the purchase. Now I live in New York city, so I'm not going to drive to Houston to get our ex to pick up my stuff. So they have to send it to me. It's double the cost. Being real with people is shocking. So when I tell them my biggest expense outside of rent is laundry, they're like,

[00:49:30] what? And I said, that's what I said when I opened my first gym. So there are so many things that people idealize. And, and I love shifting that into, there are so many things that you did not realize. And so let's take the idealize and turn it into a realize. And if you're willing to move forward, once you realize the amount of work it is,

[00:49:59] and you're still going to idealize it, but you're going to idealize it to the point that you're going to sign a lease on a property. That's way too much than you should have been spending. Right? Because you love the idea of it. And if I hit this amount and I can do this many sessions, or I get this many people to buy their memberships, then they will, then we can, we can make our ends meet. And I'm like, yeah, for rent, for rent. There's a lot more money that goes into this stuff than just rent.

[00:50:28] So again, this is why there are a lot of people who just have Kim's gym and Tim's gym because they can't afford to, to move on to the next level, open another gym, open another location because they didn't sit down and actually plan. They just found somebody that's a client of theirs that said, it'd be cool to have a gym. And you're smart. I like how you train. You'd be great. Let me give you some money and we can have a gym. And the person who put money in is completely hands off all the works on you.

[00:50:58] And if we can just let people know, like I do it with personal training to personal training is a cool job. My last two episodes ago, it's a cool job, but you're probably idealizing it. And it's not as easy as you think it's going to be. So, Oh, that's what it was. Somebody asked, should I quit my job to become a personal trainer? And I was like, all right, I'm about to burst some bubbles. I'm about to burst some bubbles. And I'm telling you, I've been a trainer for 22 years now and I love it. But there's,

[00:51:28] I use this quote all the time. Uh, there's a song from Cypress Hill called rock superstar. And he talks about being a rock star and in it, he gives the, one of the talking interludes. He talks about being a rock star. He says, it's a cool job, but it's still a job. And that's personal training. It's a cool job, but it's still a job. Nobody's given you anything. People aren't showing up because you just passed your certification or you got this specialization. They don't go, Oh really? Let me give you a lot of money.

[00:51:57] It's not how it works. And so it's not just that you're good at what you do. If nobody knows you're good at what you do. And then there's, you're just filled with, you know, my, my best episodes are the ones that, that help people realize things that they didn't realize before. And it doesn't matter if that's how the human body works or that's how business works. People are, people I think are most drawn to being like, Oh, I didn't know that.

[00:52:27] Yeah. Awesome, man. Uh, a lot of great insights. You know, I want to leave people with this is like, we may have painted a picture of a difficult road with, within gym ownership and personal training, but overall it's a very fulfilling profession. It's just, it's just not all, you know, uh, sparkly than unicorns, right? Like there, there is, there is work, there's time, there's failure just like anything else. But I have to say some of the best feelings I've ever had walking out of, you know, any occupation is,

[00:52:57] is leaving my gym after a great, you know, Saturday morning session with all of all my members or, you know, you know, complete her first half marathon, you know, stuff like that. It's builds your sales man in, in ways that very few things can. So yeah, it's, it's, uh, that's very true. We're being realistic to you before where I said, I, I, I talk about it and I try to burst everybody's bubble, but it's also like that scene from fight club where he's like,

[00:53:26] get off my porch. And then, uh, the guy has to stay there for like three days. And then he's like, all right, you can come in. And then he says to the next guy, Bob, get off my porch. And then he gets off the porch and he's like, no, no, come back. No, no, you just have to do this. Right. So I'm not, I'm not trying to chase you away. I am. Yeah. If, if, if what I said made it seem like you shouldn't be a business owner, then you are right. You definitely should not. Uh, but if what I said made you be like, man, that's a lot harder than it sounds.

[00:53:56] And I still want to do it. It's time to, to buckle up and get to work. You can make it happen. Yeah. Eyes wide open. I love it. Rick. Thank you so much. I mean, you got a lot of stuff going on your gyms, uh, the podcasting, uh, if people want to reach out to you and just chat and converse or, or learn more about what you do is, uh, where would you like them to go? Yeah. Thanks for asking. You can hit me up on Instagram at dr.rick Ritchie. That's R I C H E Y.

[00:54:23] Or you can email me rick.richie at nasm.org. And then if you want to listen to the podcast, just type in Rick Ritchie, uh, nasm on whatever you listen to. And this is a business to business. So this is, this is for personal trainers to, to help inspire them to, to figure out, you know, life and training. And there's exercise science stuff there too, Eric. I'm not, it's not just, I'm not, I don't want my trainers to listen to the podcast because he's teaching them how to go independent. That's,

[00:54:51] that's not what I'm doing on the podcast at all. Uh, but it's a lot of exercise science. So you just check in, uh, the podcast and, uh, at NASM and Rick Ritchie, and that'll pop up. Right on. Rick, thank you so much for your time, man. I really appreciate the transparency and the work you do for the industry. I mean, you put a lot of value out there. So well done. Ladies and gentlemen, Rick Ritchie. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of future of fitness. If you did,

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