Juliet Starrett & Alex Alimanestianu - Quarterly Earnings Reports, CEO Shuffle, Luxury Longevity

[00:00:02] Hey everybody, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness industry podcast for over four years and running. I am your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the absolute pleasure of talking to entrepreneurs, executives, thought leaders, and cutting edge technology experts within the extremely

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[00:02:06] network of content creators, then we are for you too. Go to podcastcollective.io to learn more. That is podcastcollective.io. Now on to the show. Hi, we are live. Juliette, Alex, welcome back for the industry deep dive of I guess this is officially

[00:02:29] Q2 is what we're doing in Q3. Admittedly, we're a little slow and far behind due to our hefty summer schedules that we all enjoy so much. It's always a pleasure to see you too and excited for the stuff that we have on tap

[00:02:44] here or going to eat the quarterly reports when we go into some longevity stuff. We're going to go and do a lot of really interesting things that are going on. First and foremost, how have you guys been?

[00:02:53] Maybe give us some insights into the highlights of your summer and we'll go from there. Juliette, please start us off. Thanks again, Eric. As I said when I saw you guys, I truly look forward to talking to you guys every time we

[00:03:06] get together so the highlight of my week. Thanks again for hosting us. Quick recap, I just got back from being totally up and grid on the Hell's Canyon of the Snake River on the Oregon-Idaho border technology free, which was very special.

[00:03:21] Then for the first time ever, even though we've worked with so many athletes, we're going to head to Europe and be able to catch a few days of the Olympics in Paris. We'll have lots to report on what that experience is like.

[00:03:33] So that's what's kind of on tap in the start at summer. Yeah, fantastic. And Alice, what have you been up to? Yeah, so great to see you too again and look forward to this conversation.

[00:03:47] That's been a great summer here in the Jackson Hole area and the Teton Mountains. And a lot of tier two for my mountain biking experiment so far, so good. I seem to have my limbs and I haven't had any dramatic events with my age is kind

[00:04:11] of critical in the lot of road biking and some a couple of bearing counters. Nothing too scary, but close enough so that I figured out how to carry bear spray on my bike and to my family's dismay. I had not been doing that.

[00:04:36] And we're heading to the North Woods of Wisconsin to a lake, my wife's lake house and that'll be a lot more relaxing than Jackson is in the summer. Wait, so is the only real sort of apex predator we have to worry about

[00:04:58] out here in California is mountain lions. But I mean, this is like a thing as everybody on their bikes carrying bear spray where you both are. Yes. Amazing. Yeah, it's been a little scary in Teton Park. There have been some attacks and some pretty and of course where

[00:05:22] Ereclips there even more grizzlies. Yeah, we're getting a lot of them. And if people ever visit or if you guys have a visit to Lacer National Park, especially the east side of the park and you get into some bigger hikes,

[00:05:33] I would say there's like a few do a couple of days. There's probably a 50 percent chance you'll at least see a grizzly from a distance. Hopefully not too close, but they are beautiful. But I think everyone has a kind of a love hate relationship with grizzlies.

[00:05:49] You love them for everything they are, but man, I really don't want to. No, you do not want to turn a corner and run into one. Oh no, so far so good. So I'm sorry to keep talking about bears on this. But I love the subject.

[00:06:01] So real quick question. Are you allowed to bring dogs with you into Glacier? And the only reason I ask is there was an outside magazine piece that said dogs are actually super helpful with bear interactions.

[00:06:11] But I was like, I wonder if you can bring them into Glacier or not? The national park. No. Yeah, the only way you can is if they are like a licensed therapy dog. Like you see a lot of veterans with dogs in the park.

[00:06:24] And, you know, I've seen a bunch of which I'm sure some of them are real therapy dogs, right? But check it over and off. Or if the Amazon is a therapy dog, if it's therapy for your fear of grizzly bears, right?

[00:06:36] Like that would be why I'd want one. Of course. Yeah. I would get a grip. But yeah, it's you can't, unfortunately, unless you have, you know, a special license for it, but they are great deterrence. And I would highly recommend having a dog.

[00:06:49] I have an adrenaline shipper that I take all the time on the trails. And yeah, she'll let me know there's something going on. That's for sure. On my end, let's see, I got just telling you guys just got back

[00:07:00] or a little while ago from a trip to Uzbekistan. For my 10 year anniversary, it was quite unique. Deed expectations. And I think people, if you're interested in doing something like that and visiting Central Asia and seeing all the ancient Silk Road cities and all that, just DM me.

[00:07:17] I'll give you a nice agenda because we kind of learned something in the hard way, but it's fully worth it. Istanbul was really cool on our way back. And then also something that may be of interest to you guys,

[00:07:27] especially usually as I went to the first high rocks event in New York City, the first outdoor one. And it was quite a spectacle. Very impressed over 5,000 spectators sold out in something like 24 hours. Not spectators, participants and then even more spectators

[00:07:42] and all you know, a lot of big brand partnerships. They reminded me of the early kind of just when CrossFit was maturing, but definitely less technical, more accessible, not as good on the spectator side. I don't think it's that it's fun to see people do freakish feets, right?

[00:07:57] Like you see in CrossFit, but it was it was definitely and there's something there. There's there's there's just. Yeah, it seems to be growing. Was this the one Lance Armstrong competed into? Did you see Lance? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think his publicist won't we'll probably flag this now.

[00:08:14] But I posted a photo of him on my LinkedIn. So I was like, oh, my God, it's like Lance. That was pretty cool. He did really well, I guess. But the problem with like he couldn't see him. You didn't know where anybody was on the track.

[00:08:24] Like they were making the announcements and stuff like that. So from a spectator standpoint, I think they're going to figure a few things out. But it was definitely. It's impressive. Really, really. I want to check it out. Go ahead, Alex.

[00:08:37] Yeah. Is New York City a good venue for that kind of event? Well, it was on the this big Hudson River, right? So it was beautiful, you know, getting in and around anywhere in New York City is, I guess, you know, a little bit tough, I would say.

[00:08:49] But I didn't I don't think it was an issue. And for them, I mean, everyone who's running along that path, which is probably one of the most important past in the country, but like the advertising and the PR around it, I'm sure was spectacular.

[00:09:04] But couldn't have been cheap to write that. I'll tell you how much. Well, I bet Alex is too, but I'm a Tour de France junkie. So I sometimes listen to Lance's podcast, which is how I knew that he had done it.

[00:09:17] And I think, you know, all in classic Lance way, all he talked about were all of his weaknesses. Which I'm sure he has some, but I was like, I bet he totally flamed. So I'm not the cause of hearing it.

[00:09:29] He looks bigger like he's definitely gained physical mass. Right? That was the first thing about him, like, wow, his neck and traps and all these things. And it doesn't look like the guy we knew on the bike. But I mean, he was moving weight, pulling rope,

[00:09:42] moving, running, obviously. So yeah, very, very cool. Well, let's let's get into let's get in some some quarterly reports. Now, these are Q1 right now. So we're going to get into probably very shortly as soon as you get back from the Olympics.

[00:09:57] Julia will probably do you too, because it'll be out. But let's start with the top of the line, at least in the order we had. But Planet Fitness, which what should take on those? Yeah. So last time we talked about Planet,

[00:10:10] they hadn't found a CEO and they finally did in in in April, a woman Colleen Keating, who comes from the hotel industry. And I think I think it's great to have a little more diversity in the C-suite of these, you know, leading public companies.

[00:10:36] I don't I think she she has franchise experience or expertise. So I think that's great. You know, around fitness, probably very little domain expertise. And that's that's a question mark. You know, she succeeded Chris Rondo, who had been

[00:10:57] started at the front desk in Planet Fitness in New Hampshire and worked his way up to CEO and had a lot of a lot of domain expertise and credibility. So that's always a little, you know, kind of uncertain how these these, you know, really excellent executives

[00:11:22] come into the industry from outside. Are they going to sort of do they have the acumen to figure out what works in and what doesn't work in fitness? So so that's I think that's a, you know, TBD. But, you know, last time we were talking about them,

[00:11:42] there was that whole transgender issue in the locker rooms and boycotts. And I think, you know, the stock. The stock is doing well. I mean, it's up at 76 now, you know, was in the 50s when we last talked.

[00:12:00] So, you know, and that's without any new any any new numbers really other than yeah, the first quarter, which was which was fine. You know, I think it'll be interesting to hear her on her earnings call and see if if, you know, she's got a strategy that's different.

[00:12:19] I, you know, I think they're their model may be a little stale. It may need some some refreshing. And, you know, coming from the hotel industry is interesting because a lot of the hotel brands have

[00:12:36] a lot of the chains have multiple brands and, you know, they might have a good, better best sort of strategy and maybe planet will add a brand. Who knows? But. But it's performing, I think, you know, it's meeting expectations not growing that quickly, but but it's still growing.

[00:12:59] And so, yeah, they're in good shape. And now look forward to hearing from her. Where's any takeaways on your end, Juliet, from the 30s? Not really. I mean, I would love to dive more into the CEO conversation, but I know we have another CEO coming down the pipeline.

[00:13:16] So I say we move on to the next one. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that the quote that I saw in there that come right was something along the lines as well as national advertising

[00:13:26] campaign that we believe may not have resonated as broadly as we had anticipated. And I think when you go with some of these brands, which I admire all these types of campaigns, right, that are very targeted

[00:13:37] for the, you know, coming to my I was just talking to the brain and from Adam Bollack and Eddie from half a tech about this on a separate podcast or like the Jim Shark, right? Like they know exactly where they're going after in their campaigns.

[00:13:49] And obviously equinox is very kind of like you're going to if you're doing it right, you're going to push some people away. Like I was looking at a planet fitness is some of their stuff. And I'm definitely not who they want in their game, right?

[00:14:01] I'm probably going to grow up. I'm probably going to drop some weights. And so their campaign is like to me, I'm like, oh, that's what you want. Right. It's like you kind of want. So when he sees someone like that, that may actually mean that it's working.

[00:14:13] Like if not, if it's not broadly accepted, then that probably means by your core audience, it is being something other people are like, yeah, no. And that's kind of appointed, right? I don't know. I thought that was kind of an interesting way.

[00:14:24] Yeah, if that makes total sense, of course, it's not broadly accepted because they're not broadly going after a lot of people. I don't know. Just just my two cents on that one. Yeah, I think they were trying to extend their appeal with that campaign.

[00:14:41] And I can't remember who the the artist was, who was spotlighted in the in the January campaign. But it felt like a diversity. They were they were trying to diversify a little bit, though. The appeal and broaden it.

[00:15:00] But yeah, no, I don't I think the growth is slow down there. And they're going to have to, you know, freshen it up. They've increased their strength about the component in in in their spaces and taken away cardio. And that makes sense, I think.

[00:15:22] But that's sort of a tweak. I don't know if that's enough to get them, you know, back to really hyper growth. But yeah, so. You know, the other CEO, big, well, there's two other big CEO stories.

[00:15:37] One was Peloton, where they just as they were releasing earnings in May, they announced that Barry McCarthy was stepping down in the announced another huge round of employee cuts and expense cuts. And so, you know, that's sort of the end of the Barry McCarthy chapter.

[00:16:00] Two years and some, you know, an executive who came out of Netflix and then Spotify, which just an incredible record of success in those in those companies, but did it, you know, did a translate in the connected equipment fitness world?

[00:16:26] And I think the answer is pretty clear, right? It did. So is that, you know, it's it's a it's hard to find a more qualified executive than the whole Barry McCarthy, but that doesn't mean that it translates. I mean, I find that so interesting, Alex.

[00:16:48] And I'd love you to dive more in on that whole domain expertise piece because, you know, of all these CEOs, including the Taco Bell CEO, that's what I was left wondering in every case is does it really matter? You know, is domain expertise like fourth or fifth

[00:17:06] on the list of important qualities you'd want in a CEO, especially when you have a struggling company like Peloton? Or does it really matter? Right. I mean, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I mean, at least

[00:17:19] you know, as someone in the industry, I, of course, and I think you agree with you both agree, like we would love to see someone from within the industry get elevated into one of these roles. But maybe there is there really no such person

[00:17:34] in any of these companies that could be, you know, someone could give them a chance, even if they don't have prior CEO experience. I don't know. I don't know what the calculus is of hiring these CEOs, but clearly

[00:17:46] the idea of like, you know, taking a risk with an untested CEO is not part of the calculus. Yeah. And before I want to expand on that before you answer, Alex, on that question that I think like you talk about

[00:18:02] CEO coming in, I joke about, well, you know, it's a lot easier to sell gorditos than it is to sell, you know, fitness programs, right? People love gorditos. People don't always love fitness. They like the result.

[00:18:13] So it's like, well, can the can stuff like from the outside industry translate into fitness or are we truly unique? Right. And the fact of what we're selling because it's something that you take some of patient takes willpower takes, you know, things like

[00:18:27] that in order for the consumer to actually grasp on. So what do you think, Alex? I mean, is it can these two skills translate? Are we unique? Are we special? I think we're very special. So yeah, I mean, look around, look around the industry and

[00:18:45] I'm sure there were exceptions, but you know, Brahmacradi lifetime started the business. He's been in it 30 plus years. He knows the customer. He knows the marketplace. He knows the history. It's pretty hard. It's it's really hard to find.

[00:19:10] You think of a really successful executive who's come in from outside the industry, you know, you look at Equinox, Harvey Speedback has been in that business for 20 plus years. You know, you think of some of the other, you know, the LA fitnesses or 24 hour fitness.

[00:19:32] You know, Mark Mastrow built that business. And when he left, it was never the same. And so it's not impossible. And I'm sure there are exceptions that I, you know, that I can't think of. But it does feel like the type of industry, you know, maybe it's

[00:19:59] like Hollywood or, you know, there are lots of examples where, you know, you need people like Bob Iger who just grew up in the business. And when you try to replace them with somebody from outside, it just doesn't translate.

[00:20:18] So I, you know, the the thing, though, that is disappointing to me also disappointed, but primarily disappointing is that these companies aren't training their successors. So, you know, Peloton, they decide Barry's not the right guy or he decides he's not the right guy leaves.

[00:20:45] They don't have a successor. Like what is the board doing? The board, the board's major responsibility is CEO having the right CEO in the corner of the corner office. And that means training successors always having a successor available. And I'm not saying it's easy.

[00:21:08] And but you know, these are big companies. Exponential we haven't talked about, but. You know, Geisler leaves and there's no successor. Now they did replace them quickly. And so that, you know, took them a month. So that's really quick.

[00:21:25] My suspicion is they were already thinking about who to bring in because there were so many dark clouds hanging over that, you know, that CEO role. But but yeah, they bring in somebody who's a great executive, you know, hugely successful at Adidas and at Taco Bell.

[00:21:49] But you know, he's my age. He's mid sixties. It's that I'm not in ages. Like, you know, he could certainly be a really successful executive for many years. But you know, my suspicion is he's he's in there for, you

[00:22:09] know, a short term to find somebody who can who can run it for the long term. I would I would expect. But again, why, you know, is he going to have the business acumen? Is he is? Is he going to understand, you know, how 10 brands in fitness,

[00:22:28] how they operate, what levers to pull to make them, you know, get back on track if they aren't on track or how to how to grow them. I don't know that it's it's clear he's got franchise experience. He's got sporting good experience. So that's that's good.

[00:22:47] But, you know, that's that's not enough. One question that I had for you on the CEO thing is what role I'm assuming it's an outsized role do the boards have? And is it because the boards of these companies don't have any domain expertise?

[00:23:02] And the reason I had this question when you sent around this info about the CEO's is and this is rumor mill. But, you know, I always hear CrossFit rumors and I always hear that there's this ongoing CrossFit sort of conflict

[00:23:15] between like the old guard and CrossFit and the new guard, which is trying to run it like a business. And I'm not aware, for example, on CrossFit that there's a single kind of like affiliate owner original CrossFit person on the board of CrossFit, right?

[00:23:29] It's a bunch of investors. And so I don't know. I'm just wondering, like, could part of this issue be solved in choosing CEOs if they actually ever had a domain expert or two on their boards? Yeah. And is that something they would ever do?

[00:23:43] That's a really, yeah, it's a great point. I mean, ultimately, it's the board's obligation, responsibility to to make sure the CEO is the right CEO, to make sure there's a successor in line and and then as they need to replace them to find the right person.

[00:24:03] The boards are, as you, you know, as you point out, they're typically dominated by investors. And so it could be private equity, it could be venture, you know, and and so having, you know, been been a CEO of a public company that was private equity owned.

[00:24:30] I could tell you that the the number of good ideas around how to run the business or how to, you know, what what strategy for growth or is was almost zero. So the boards have typically a lot of financial expertise,

[00:24:51] but not a lot of of expertise around how to yeah, how to run a fitness business. That's probably the same thing in a lot of for a lot of businesses. That's not that's not unique, I don't think.

[00:25:04] But I think the challenge is that it's a relatively small industry. The pool of talent is a little bit shallow. You know, I know I know we have big companies in the industry, but but compared to tech or industrial, you know, package goods or consumer type products.

[00:25:27] Yeah, we just we just don't have that reservoir. Well, do we we've mentioned lifetime in their report? Is there anything big that stood out to you guys there? And while you're thinking, I just want to remember I brought this in the binary posted something the other day

[00:25:45] about lifetimes news location as a 10,000 person waiting list. It's 6.5 acres, 186,000 square feet. These things are no joke. So it seems like they're on the right track. But what's what's your take given the numbers and reports? Well, I love the the historic levels of member retention

[00:26:07] that the CEO pointed out. Because I think that has been the biggest Achilles heel in in the industry. That's the churn and having that. You know, constantly replenish your your membership other than Teletop, which has that amazing, you know, retention rate that is off the charts good.

[00:26:34] So I thought that was I thought that was great. I mean, the CEO challenged it at lifetime is sort of the opposite of the others in that the CEO is also chairman of the board. So I would call it, you know, sort of

[00:26:52] he's sort of a CEO for life situation and that at some point, you know, you need some checks and balances on the CEO. And I don't think I mean, I don't sit in on board meetings.

[00:27:06] I don't but I kind of doubt there's much checking going on there or balancing. So but, you know, that being said, you have continuity. If God forbid the CEO gets hit by a truck. I bet there's no successor that's that's obvious to step in there.

[00:27:26] But, you know, the that that company is poised to it's going to be really interesting to see their second quarter results because they've been talking about free cash flow forever. And it's supposed to happen in the second quarter.

[00:27:47] So if that happens, they they will turn to a big corner, I think. And Wall Street will be very, very happy. And, you know, I think I mean, the stock already is doing has done really well. They're up like 38 percent this year. So, yeah.

[00:28:09] So that's that's really good. You know, Expo's up so but they were beat up at the beginning of the year. But I think it's interesting going back to Expo for a second. The the street really likes the new CEO.

[00:28:25] There's no other reason why that stock would be up. There's no information, no new information. You know, Geister leaves the stock goes to seven or eight. It's now at 19. And the only news is Mark King is the new CEO.

[00:28:44] So, you know, at least that those voters are voting. You know, thumbs up for Mark King. I love. Yeah. Well, I picked up on exactly what you did, Eric, the new gym and the wait list. And, you know, my big takeaway there is like, yes, to gyms.

[00:29:02] You know, I still I don't know if anyone had this lingering question post pandemic that people want to leave their home and go to a gym. And, you know, despite my love of the home gym,

[00:29:12] I still think people use the gym as a place to commune with others and that the community piece is maybe as important as the fitness piece. So that's what I really took away from that 10,000 person wait list.

[00:29:23] As I was like, people are still craving a location to, you know, have community and see their friends and, you know, just have that community piece. So I definitely sort of did a little like fist bump when I saw that

[00:29:36] because I think that's great for the industry, writ large and a good sign for all of us. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if I'm aging into this now, but like the thought of like a country club experience, which is what I watch the promotional video

[00:29:50] and I could very much use the country club, right? It's got exercise, a lot of stuff. I'm like, you know, it's starting to sound pretty nice at age 47. I'm like, you know, just a place I can hang out after work or like,

[00:30:02] you know, going on a Saturday afternoon. Yeah, I'm going to come back. We're on the same tip, Eric, because I have a dear friend who I like to make fun of who is obsessed with the Bay Club in the Bay Area,

[00:30:13] which is like a fancy, you know, it's it's a country club. It's like he loves the Bay Club and I kind of love to make fun of him because I come from like the Gritty CrossFit gym world.

[00:30:22] But he's taken me as a guest a few times in the Bay Club. And I was like, oh, yeah, like I'm definitely joining the Bay Club. I don't even know if I'm going to work out there.

[00:30:32] I'm just going to like, you know, have a coffee and meet up with my friends and play pickleball like I'm so into the Wall Street Journal, which I'm going to do. So I'm right on your tip with the country club thing, Eric.

[00:30:43] Yeah, the Olympic Club too in San Francisco. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. Anyway, yeah. So yeah, I mean, the thing that for this one I want to ask you about, Alex is like its center operations expenses increased 17.4 percent. Is that is what was the particular reason behind that?

[00:30:59] Sounds like the confidence there's a lot of confidence that's going to drop and increase cash flow. Is that kind of the situation there? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think they're all about taking care of the members and they do the payrolls are

[00:31:18] you know, are huge and wages wages are going up. Right. But he's not that company is not compromising on on payroll. And I think that's I think that's the main driver. But there could be there could be some other things in there as well.

[00:31:38] I mean, and that, you know, if that translates into higher retention, it's it's a great investment. So I think the members there are super happy. I mean, I don't know, you know, as as as you will be when you join.

[00:31:54] Yeah, I don't think one's coming here anytime soon. But OK. Not going to be. Yeah, exponential. Any additional thoughts on that one? I mean, new CEO, you mentioned a lot of the highlights is like, OK, stocks up, but we'll see what happens. Right.

[00:32:08] We got to let this one play out for a little bit. Let me name. Yeah. I mean, they divested another brand, right? The running running brand. Let's try it. Yeah. So they divested that one, Roe House, the added Lindora, which is, I guess, a longevity brand.

[00:32:26] And so that's, you know, two brands divested this year. That's that's a lot more. It's more than I mean, they've done ever in the past. But, you know, it's an interesting portfolio, right? It's a portfolio and like your stock portfolio, you buy, you sell

[00:32:46] depending on how things are doing. And and that's what makes it, I think, a robust model. You know, they they if Barr is doing really well, then that's that's going to drive the growth and stretch and, you know, and they they they're not going to bat a thousand.

[00:33:07] I think they're going to buy some stuff that is not going to pan out. But it's smart to cut your losses and and focus on the on the winners. So I think I mean, that's good. That's a, you know, it's a tribute to Geisler and his partner,

[00:33:25] Mark Robowski, who started the company. They were the first really to put together a portfolio like that. Jay Star, any thoughts on Expo? Anything besides that to add? Yeah, me neither. Yeah. So we'll touch on Peloton one more time because I thought

[00:33:40] it was interesting. Like, you started, you know, I talked about this was, I think Alex, you recognize this too. I kind of like the direction like they've turned quite a bit, right? But some of the stuff, I mean, the, you know, they're reinvesting

[00:33:53] in their product line, the content, B2B partnerships, like with Hyatt, I think it was 800 locations and just what they seems to be there kind of more of their core competencies and doubling down on that. I mean, am I am I reading that correctly?

[00:34:08] What do you guys think? And that's exactly what I saw. I mean, when I saw the hotel thing, I was like, yes, Peloton, like they should be having that partnership with every hotel chain. That's the perfect use case for a Peloton,

[00:34:20] especially if you can also access the programming, even if you're not a member of Peloton prior to going to the hotel. Because I'm not a Peloton member, for example, and I'm not really that excited about Pelotoning,

[00:34:31] but I would use a Peloton if I also had access to programming in a hotel-like environment. And yeah, I mean, I also was taking... I do feel like every time I read the report, it's like the company of the constant pivot. That's the theme I read every time.

[00:34:47] But this time, I felt like the pivots made a lot of sense to me. And we've talked about this in the past. I mean, their programming and their app are just their gold star. And that's where they just have to keep focusing their attention to my mind.

[00:35:01] And it seems like in this latest report, that's the direction they're going. So I for the first time reading this Peloton report was I was like, OK, have some hope here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it made sense to me. It's a bit of a ghost ship, though, right?

[00:35:20] You have no CEO, so, you know, the new CEO might come in and. Decide, you know, to. And. Yeah, yeah. So we really I think we need to wait and see who who gets the job and what their what their strategy is.

[00:35:37] I wouldn't expect great results from the, you know, the primary initiatives that they're focused on now. I think those might help, you know, they might stabilize the the ship a little bit, but but they have some some some pretty big growth challenges.

[00:36:03] You know, they can come up with some good stuff, but does it move the needle? Like does a hotel, you know, how many bikes are they going to sell into the hotels? Is it is it a big enough number? So I, you know, that's the that's the challenge.

[00:36:17] It's a big it's a big operation with millions of of members and to get, you know, from three, four million to 10 million over time is is going to require some some real magic. No, what I'm hearing is don't smash that buy yet and buy button yet.

[00:36:38] All right, Alex. I don't think anybody is, you know, the stock is kind of. Hanging around four dollars and, you know, they managed to refinance a lot of debt. So so their balance sheet is stronger than it was last time we spoke.

[00:36:56] And I think that's that removes an existential threat. Like people, you know, people are talking about bankruptcy. I don't think that's that's an issue right now. But let's wait and see who, you know, who gets the job and what their strategy is.

[00:37:13] I wonder if this large uptick we're seeing in lifetime and the interest in people joining actual gyms will make it difficult for them to keep growing their Gold Star program. Right. I mean, do they have as many people as they have and are ever going to

[00:37:28] have because everybody else is ready to go back to lifetime or, you know, be around other humans? I mean, I wonder if that if that trend we're seeing on the on these other businesses is going to negatively impact Peloton's growth, at least on their app. Yeah.

[00:37:46] Well, I think those are the big four. Shall we move on to the trend that's on everyone's tip of their tongue, which is longevity. All right. It seems to be everywhere nowadays. Everybody's getting in on it.

[00:37:59] I mean, we've talked about it on this quarterly report at least twice in previously, right? So what's what's new? I mean, you gave us some really good homework here, Alex. You give us the ground truth podcast exercise, maybe the single most

[00:38:14] potent medical intervention ever known by a show of hands who's surprised by that. Nobody, right? You know, so that's like, I mean, you might take on. I have a couple of things that I've been reading about, but you

[00:38:31] also send Alex some information about the optimized by equinox, you know, $40,000 a year. And I'm curious, you know, for 40 grand, I'm presumed that's on top of membership. I don't know, or maybe whatever, even if it's just $40,000 a year. We're talking about a pretty healthy chunk of chain.

[00:38:45] So is longevity ever going to be for the masses? Is it worth $40,000 a year? How do you even know if it's worth $40,000 a year? So what do you guys take on that program? Yeah, big takeaways. Julia. Well, yeah, I can take a crack at this.

[00:39:03] I mean, you guys know that I'm obsessed with the basics. And so and I have come to think a lot of these programs like equinoxes actually are just more about a status symbol than they are about actual longevity.

[00:39:19] I think, you know, if you're in certain circles and you're, you know, you're a member of equinoxes program or a variety of other longevity programs, it is a sort of status symbol. Because what I see that folks are doing within those programs

[00:39:36] really are just maybe a little more hands-on basics. But, you know, I see the big longevity influencers and, you know, everybody on the Internet, they're what they're suggesting people do for longevity is exercise, which is not new news. You know, eat fruits and vegetables, sleep, go outside sometimes,

[00:39:56] make sure you have some loving relationships. So nobody's the things that everyone's doubling down on from an influencer perspective don't seem to be this really innovative stuff that we're hoping to learn from like the Brian Johnson's of the world.

[00:40:12] And I think it's the same kind of programming that people are getting among, you know, these long big expensive longevity programs. I get it. It is a little, you know, there is some comprehensive blood work involved.

[00:40:23] You know, there might be some dexa scan and maybe from a testing perspective, people might be armed with better data. You know, they've got a VO2 max test and dexa scans and some comprehensive blood work. But again, it all is what do you do with that data?

[00:40:39] And usually what you do is exercise, eat some vegetables and protein, sleep, have healthy relationships. Right. So so I don't know. I'm a bit of a skeptic that it's, you know, anything other than that status symbol. What do you guys think? I don't know.

[00:40:58] I think Equinox knows its market and their hearts keep full. A lot of people who are going to say, yeah, I need structure. I need three days a week with a personal trainer. I need to talk to a sleep expert. I need to talk to a nutritionist.

[00:41:18] I need like, you know, the pampering and, you know, do they need it for the rest of their lives? Do they need it for six months? I don't I got to believe, you know, once they get the habits right, they're not going to keep paying $40,000 a year.

[00:41:38] But yeah, the number of reactions I got from friends and and, you know, colleagues about the price point was even people who can easily afford it were like, yeah, I would never spend that much money. So I guess they're not Equinox people.

[00:42:00] But but yeah, I mean to, you know, if you want to be a patient of Peter Reteas, I think it's 150, 200, 250,000 a year and it's so inaccessible that it doesn't mean longevity practices are inaccessible. It just means if you want that level, then, you know,

[00:42:26] it's going to cost your normal leg. And I think that's discouraging to a lot of folks and it doesn't don't think it moves. It helps the cause because it's or it's just discouraging like, OK, well, I can't afford that.

[00:42:42] So I'm just going to go to Taco Bell or to. I mean, I love that. I love that point, Alex, because I think, you know, if anything in our industry, you know, we still are small and even just our regular standard issue,

[00:42:58] gyms and fitness environment isn't still that welcoming to a lot of people. And we still struggle with sort of, you know, staying in our own little silo, so to speak, and not realizing all the ways in which a lot of people

[00:43:12] don't relate to fitness or relate to fitness the way we've created it for them. And there's and I think this does compound that problem because I you couldn't have said it better. I mean, longevity practices really are.

[00:43:24] I mean, the most basic and most effective longevity practices are mostly free. So they are accessible, but I do worry because the their the media attention and the sort of impact on the Internet of big influencers who are,

[00:43:41] you know, pushing a, you know, point oh one percent of people into these programs. I think really makes a lot of people feel like they're just missing out. Yeah. Well, here's what I like. Right? I like that we're repositioning exercise, you know, what used to be exercise

[00:43:58] for a goal, whether it be fat loss or a better frantime in CrossFit or whatever. It may be a very specific goal. Now it's like exercise or, you know, health for life, which is a completely different goal.

[00:44:10] And the thing that I'm noticing is what are the biomarkers of longevity? That seems to be like a discussion point right now. Like, well, what are we tracking? How do we know? Right. And I was listening to a podcast, Peter Atea's The Drive with Joel Jameson,

[00:44:23] who, you know, the HRB expert in the field. It was really interesting there kind of going back and forth like, well, VO2 Max is accessible to everybody. Like how do you get that? But HRB is more accessible and resting heart rate is actually a good indicator.

[00:44:36] And all they say, I actually talked to Joel about this alphabet. Then Joel had had an excellent point. He's like, I think it's less about these actual biomarkers, but the lifestyle that goes around trying to attain them. That's what gives you longevity, right?

[00:44:48] It's all the activity and the things that you do in order to get there. So it's not like, those are indicators, but I think that's what people are starting to get hung up on is like, well, okay, I got to go. Let's test. Right?

[00:44:58] I got to do all these things. I got to track more. And I'm just as guilty as anybody else because I love data. But that seems to be, to me, like a major obligation that I'm seeing is people want to pay for the numbers, right?

[00:45:11] And the insights and the reports. Now there's some really cool stuff going on. Of course. I mean, there's like, Humanaught Health, which is Jim Donnelly is the guy from Restore Hyper One. Yeah, those guys are great. They're actually trying to, they're trying to make it, you know, they're,

[00:45:27] they're at least trying to make it more accessible. And I really give them, you know, we've had a lot of conversations with them and I give them huge kudos for trying to say, okay, like we get, we may need to start with the one percenters, but we're really

[00:45:39] going to try to open this up, which I is seriously admirable. I'm a fan of those guys. Yeah. Yeah, the way he put it to me was really funny. He's like, we're, we're, you know, I don't know if you want me to say

[00:45:49] this thing or say it because we're saving rich people money at this point. But, you know, what we're hoping to get to is, you know, a point where it's really, and I'm, I'm going to try some stem cells in my knees see how that works.

[00:45:59] So there's like a lot of like scientific stuff that's coming around that's still a little fringy, which I think could be interesting in longevity space. But for right now, that's like, well, what's all the stuff you mentioned and then creatine. That's all we know for sure. Right.

[00:46:13] We know for sure creatine is great. You know what that reminds me of a little bit though, when you were saying that as remember when all those studies, studies came out about, you know, kids who listen to classical music like are better in life.

[00:46:25] And it turned out that it had really nothing to do with the classical music. It had to do with like all these other things that were going on in a household in which parents would listen to classical music.

[00:46:33] I feel like we're it's almost the same thing when we're talking about all this health data, you know, the same people who are going to be curious about getting their biomarkers in a variety of ways

[00:46:44] are also going to be the same people who are going to do something about it. Once they have it, right? So it's like, is it good? I don't know. It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I have a great VO2 max. What do you have to do?

[00:46:57] Exercise a ton. Sleep well, right? Eat well. So it's like, well, it all lines up. Things we've been talking about for many, many years. When that was interesting, I don't know if you guys had a chance to check it out.

[00:47:10] But Proteus Motion, I know you know them well, Alex. And yep, you know, they were at least a state of power and how I think this is really encouraging for people in the strength game is how power is could be

[00:47:19] one of the bigger biomarkers that we're missing in general, especially rotational power. I mean, I'll just read a couple of statistics. Overall power decreases an average rate of 10.2 percent per decade. Men decrease an average of 9.2. Women an average of 11.2. Women lose power quickly.

[00:47:38] Women have a lower rate of power loss until their 60s and 70s. So it seems to be more precipitous of a fall off after 70s. 70s women begin to have a greater rate of decrease in power compared to men.

[00:47:50] And by their 70s, men have lost almost 39 percent of their power. Women have lost 53 percent of their power can be trained, right? It can be trained fairly easily. But like in a recently interviewed Eric Kressy about this, too,

[00:48:04] because he's deep in that world, he was like, yeah, rotational power specifically because you think about like falling. What happens, you know, as you get most you get all you fall, you break your hip or shoulder or something like that.

[00:48:14] And that's kind of like the start of it or the end, the start of the end, right? And, you know, think about all the things that go into if you have rotational power, you can fight ground forces, you can catch yourself, you're more balanced.

[00:48:25] So I thought that was really interesting in their position as power, Pena and how you lose that over time. So I think that's something that's going to be kind of intriguing for our industry to watch as more data, because we didn't have that data available before Proteus.

[00:48:39] Yeah, they had your mainstream. You know, how do you like how many Proteus machines are out there? You know, how expensive are they? I know they're doing I know they're getting traction. And I know that the the benefits of what they're doing are pretty pretty amazing.

[00:49:00] And I've actually used it and it directionally, it's been really helpful. And, you know, there are some concepts I've seen where people are integrating the Proteus into assessment tools in a way that could be could reach a lot of people.

[00:49:21] So, you know, I think that's I think that's really helpful. And, and, you know, I don't I don't want to be too simplistic about sort of the prescription for how to get people on the longevity train because, you know, I do think there's a place for technology.

[00:49:44] I do think there's a place for these assessment tools for programs for measurement biomarkers. It's it's it's just a matter of sort of. You know, product market fit like how do you, you know, it we kind of have this bifurcated situation where

[00:50:07] you have plan of fitness on the one hand with 20 million members. And, you know, their their motto for years was or at least what the CEO would say is look, we're just in the business again, people off the couch. Right? Yeah.

[00:50:23] And in arts and that's the biggest impact we can have on people's lives. Get them off the couch. And then there's Peter Atea and Necronox and, you know, offering these these incredibly intensive 100 different blood tests and, you know, colonoscopies every six months.

[00:50:43] And but in the middle there, there's a large huge number of people who want more than what plan of fitness is doing, but not what Peter Atea is for scrapping. It's just it's just inaccessible in so many ways. Time, money.

[00:51:02] So yeah, so how to, you know, how does the industry address that white space in the middle there? I think that's going to be really fascinating. And only Alex, if there is someone on this call who literally wrote a book on simplifying longevity. Yeah, simplifying health habits.

[00:51:21] Well, you know, from I had this same feeling, I read the full Proteus report and what I did love about it was it was actionable. And obviously you can use Proteus as technology, but also a good strength and conditioning program done by a good strength and conditioning

[00:51:39] coach should be able to train power as well. And that is accessible to everybody, right? And it's one of the things, you know, I know we there continues to be this upward trend as we read in the reports about people interested in strength training as an example.

[00:51:54] And I think the power piece is I thought so important because I don't know if you guys feel this in your own community, but I do feel like more and more people in my age range are getting the message that they should strengthen.

[00:52:07] But the how is not working yet. People still don't know what to do. They don't know how to do it. They don't know how often they don't know what qualifies as good strength and conditioning were. So even though we have all these options available to people, somehow

[00:52:27] it's not hitting for like my population subset. A lot of them have like a couple of dumbbells at home and they're trying to move those around a little bit, but there's no real thinking or thought or progression or anything about speed or power or agility or right there.

[00:52:42] There's there's missing these key elements of what a good strength and conditioning program would look like for people. So to me, I see that as a huge opportunity because that can be accessible to a lot of people. Just really good strengthening conditioning because I do think

[00:52:57] we in even a good, better best model, you know, like obviously moving some dumbbells around is better than being on the couch and better than nothing. Maybe that's good. But best is like a great strength and conditioning program that you follow consistently.

[00:53:11] But we haven't figured out how to tell people what that is. It's a free for all out there. They know they should strengthen and they're still going to the gym doing a bunch of stupid stuff without a program and a plan or they're doing it at home.

[00:53:25] So I think that's that's one big obvious space that we can fill. And I think some gyms are doing that and personal trainers are doing that. But man, I think that that market is huge. And I don't know how we can get that message out there

[00:53:40] rather than talking about it and directing people. Yeah, did you guys notice in that podcast? I don't know if she if you listen to the whole thing, but the the Stanford doctor who was I think a cardiologist gave, you know, mentioned a stat where he said one

[00:54:01] minute of exercise buys you five minutes of extra life. Yes. And high intensity exercise buys you seven or eight minutes of extra life. Now, I had never heard that before. Me either it was amazing. I didn't dig into the data, but I figure it's a good source.

[00:54:23] So, you know, but of course, what is exercise? Right? Does it matter if it's strength or if it's cardio? Does it need to be both? You know, but it's such a simple strong message that I just

[00:54:39] it just resonated with me and I was like, oh, that could motivate people. You know, we need simple messages. Like when we get bogged down in in two subjects to science, we lose a lot of people. So I mean, that's obvious.

[00:54:56] But so yeah, so, you know, it's all about motivating. We we kind of know the what medicine people need to take. In terms of exercise and that's our business. And it's it's how to crack the, you know, the code on motivation.

[00:55:14] How do you motivate people to have a consistent, you know, practice? I think we should have an app. We shouldn't have that. Yeah, there's got to be a technology minute of exercise. And at the end of the month, it gives you a report and says,

[00:55:29] congratulations, you added 20 minutes to your life for like, you know, 17 hours in my entire year. You're like, oh, I added, you know, 12, you know, two months to my life due to exercise. That would be like Apple. Apple is going to do it now. Yeah, yeah. Apple is listening.

[00:55:45] I mean, but yeah, that would be really motivating, though. I agree. I mean, you get it, you know, you get like a party. You get like an explosion of confetti on your app. And you're like, you just extended your life by 27 hours and 67 seconds or whatever.

[00:55:59] I mean, I love it. I love it. Yeah, yeah. We have that with our solar panels. We have like, you know, the number of trees that we effectively planted. And it's a little little analogy, but motivational. Yeah. So I, you know, I love all this conversation around.

[00:56:23] You know, that Tia does and and, you know, the work that sort of the extremists are doing Brian Johnson. And at the end of the day, that has to trickle, you know, through the population or it's just preaching to the. Yes, it's just like it's entertainment, right?

[00:56:48] In many ways, it's entertainment, right? And I'm not fun and I like entertainment. You know, I, you know, for my part, it's like, I'm, you know, I'm the like let's keep it simple person. But, you know, I love all that.

[00:56:58] I love technology and I love to get my biomarkers checked. And, you know, I love playing with all the tools and bells and whistles and devices, you know? So I think there's a place for it.

[00:57:08] And I do think that they're, I mean, you know, we were so inspired by Jim and the human not team by, you know, I think there are some people who are really like, OK, this is cool and all, but how do we get this out to the masses?

[00:57:22] And hopefully that will continue. Hopefully there'll be many human not type companies who really take that on as their mission. Yeah, awesome. Well, I think we're just about up on time, you guys. It always goes fast with you too. But any closing thoughts?

[00:57:42] Anything that comes to mind before we before we shut her down until the next one? I mean, I would like to see some successful sales of fitness businesses in the next before the end of the year.

[00:58:01] Like, I'd like to see Barry's sell for a huge amount of money or, you know, who else is I'd like to see some IPOs maybe. I think that I think we need some, you know, some exits where people look at the industry and say,

[00:58:23] all right, you know, this this was a really successful investment. And the investors, you know, exited and made a lot of money and they now they want to come back in and invest in other things. It's been it's it feels like it's been a while.

[00:58:39] And it's not just the fitness industry. It's it's, you know, the tech industry too. But tech always has something like, you know, AI and NVIDIA. And people are like, oh, I can, you know, focus on that and make make tech investments.

[00:58:57] So so I think that's I'd like to see I'm hopeful that that'll happen for the end. Awesome. For my part, based on our CEO conversation, I'd love to see some of these companies put a couple domain experts on their boards.

[00:59:14] Right? I think that that would be cool if all those companies had someone who you wouldn't expect to be sitting on their board, but as a domain expert on their board, I think that would be a cool development and it would be good to see.

[00:59:26] Are you throwing your hat in the ring? Yeah, I mean, yeah. And Eric, too. Eric would be great. And I could think of a list of 10 other amazing people. But yeah, I think, you know, men, someone someone or 10 of someone's

[00:59:42] ending up on some of these boards with some domain expertise would be a really cool thing to see. Yeah. Have you ever? Well, we could talk off one. Yeah, I think for for mine and just because, you know,

[00:59:56] we talked about simplification and longevity and the confusion of the the consumer with all these things. But, you know, Cressy said something there down if I'm stealing his quote or if I'm just kind of pulling from his thoughts.

[01:00:07] But basically his thought was like, listen, just be as as athletic as you can for as long as you can. That's the best option for longevity. And like that's it. You know, here. Yes, Eric Cressy. Yes. Yes. So awesome. Doesn't doesn't don't the story.

[01:00:22] I'd say don't do nothing. Yeah, never do nothing. Never do nothing. Never do nothing. I love that. We're just we're just full of uppercickers today. You guys, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you. Yeah, absolute pleasure.

[01:00:37] Have a great time in Paris, Juliette, and we'll we'll record when you get back. Sounds great. Thanks again, Eric, for hosting. Yeah, thanks. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Feminist.

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