Eric Durak - The GLP-1 Playbook

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[00:02:20] Eric Duroc, welcome back to The Future of Fitness, my friend. Thank you, Eric Melzone, for inviting me again. I appreciate it. Well, in these crazy GLP-1 times that we have going on right now, I thought it was

[00:02:31] really critical and important to get you back on here so you can educate me a little bit on exactly what's going on. I've had a lot of people, if you follow the show, talk about the business aspects and the opportunities, the market opportunities, commercial

[00:02:43] opportunities with GLP-1, but I haven't really had anyone come in and kind of talk from more of a political perspective like what exactly going on? How do we work with these people? How does the actual opportunity unfold in real life, right?

[00:02:56] And you have a ton of experience over 30 years within medical fitness and you're also, I literally write in the book on how to do it right now. So who's better to come in and teach me and educate the audience as well?

[00:03:08] So Eric, if you want to just give a brief, I hate to say that because you've been doing this for a few minutes, but just give a brief background on who you are, what you do, and then we'll kind of take it from there.

[00:03:19] Right. And I think in the context of the whole Ozempic GLP situation we find ourselves in, I started my career as a personal trainer in New York City, but I was asked to come to Santa Barbara, California to do medical

[00:03:36] research with the famed Sansom Diabetes Research Institute, which for people who don't understand diabetes in the United States, Dr. William Sansom was the first American physician to administer insulin to a patient in 1931, he was just months behind Banting and Best, but they were

[00:03:56] in Toronto and they were essentially sort of competing and collaborating. So I had the opportunity to work with some of the world's best diabetes physicians and researchers, et cetera, and I found it was an outstanding experience. And then I moved to cancer.

[00:04:16] I moved to the, you know, UC Santa Barbara and I worked in injury prevention and I've worked in a number of different areas. And now I find myself in my retirement sort of coming back home to this whole area of diabetes and weight loss.

[00:04:30] And to answer your question, it is an amazing opportunity for the health and fitness profession. And I know that you had a guest on one of your shows recently who talked about the business side of GLP-1s.

[00:04:44] And I think that there is a huge upside to the industry to sort of get into the realm of weight management care, but I'm a little bit more conservative and critical of the approach that people use because I've been around

[00:05:02] for a while, Eric, and you just know when you read things in the industry publications about other weight loss programs that didn't go so well. And back in, I think 15, 20 years ago when New York Sports Club's trainer

[00:05:16] gave a supplement to somebody and it had a fedora in it and the person was on a medication, they had a stroke that night, they died. And guess who got sued? The industry got sued. So I'm writing this GLP-1 certification program and manual from

[00:05:35] the standpoint of, and I think I mentioned to you before the first chapter I finished was the legal aspects. That we don't want to repeat the mistakes of other industries. And I'm going to go right back to medicine and say, you know, they've

[00:05:48] been doing the lap bands and they've been doing the medifast and they've been doing the multiple blood draws and they've been doing the shakes and the this and the vitamins and the meds and all this other stuff. And they haven't gotten it right either.

[00:06:02] So this is an opportunity to work with a medication that does do a great job in allowing people to lose weight. They don't strip it off immediately. They strip it off over time. And I think when you and I spoke recently, it's like, well, how

[00:06:20] does it do that? Why is it different than water fasting or bariatric surgery or getting something else? And it's because the medications, whether they're semi-glutides or trisepatides, I mean, there's like 12 of these things. And before I started writing the manual, I had no idea.

[00:06:38] I thought it was Lysempic and Wigovia and that was it. They are two semi-glutides and there's about five of those. And then you've got diaglutides and then you've got liraglutides and then you've got trisepatides and that's, they're the ones who

[00:06:52] seem to be the best in the trisepatides are, are Monjaro. And people sort of, it sounds like a mountain in Africa. It does. Yeah. Like Kilimanjaro. But anyway, you got Monjaro and then you have Zepbond, which these,

[00:07:06] these ones work really well and they have fewer side effects than Wigovia. Ozempic seems to be one of the worst in terms of side effects and the ability to, you know, lose weight over time. But in general, these types of medications, they stimulate more

[00:07:21] insulin production out of the pancreas. They also limit, they suppress the amount of glucagon that's being sort of reactivated through the liver. And then they also slow peristalsis within the digestive tract. So essentially they're kind of like a digestive paralysis medication.

[00:07:40] And in some sense that may be good. In some sense it may not be good. I'm not going to, I don't want to debate the merits of this per se. What I'm trying to do is to say, well, if you have higher amount of insulin

[00:07:56] release, how will that affect exercise? If you have slower peristalsis, how will that affect exercise? Because exercise in and of itself draws blood and fluids from the gut when you're exercised because they have to go to the working muscles. That's part of the negative feedback loop.

[00:08:12] So if you've already have not enough blood and fluids going to the digestive tract because of this medication, what's going to happen when you do specific exercise? So my role in developing the manual is, is using body composition analysis that is mostly a BIA.

[00:08:31] We want to use impedance because not only do we want to look at body fat percentage, we want to look at total body water. And it's always been critically important, especially in athletics for hydration. Now we've got people where it's drawing water out of the system.

[00:08:44] We need to figure out how, and I speak about that in the manual. I talk about smart water and the use of technology and to make sure, making sure that people do drink a certain amount of water every day.

[00:08:54] So as this thing has unfolded, Eric, like, I don't know, what's it been a year and a half, two years since we first started like hearing about this magic weight loss pill right now? It's almost ubiquitous, like in conversations within our industry or

[00:09:09] even just, you know, common dinner tables, right? What's been your reaction to it as this thing started to unfold? Have you been, you know, skeptical? Have you been gaining more confidence? Like how, give us your emotional wave going into this.

[00:09:24] It's an interesting question because one of the first things I did was ask myself, well, how long have these medications actually been in existence and lo and behold for diabetes care, they've been around for years, literally some of them had been around for almost 10 years.

[00:09:38] And they knew that they helped these patients lose weight, but they were only FDA approved for diabetes care. So everyone else said, well, we're not going to worry about it. And then I think it's Wigovia is FDA approved for weight loss.

[00:09:52] And I think just recently one of the other 12 medications has also been approved for weight loss. So, but I live in California and you used to live in California and oh my gosh, if Oprah says it's good, then everyone's got to be on it.

[00:10:06] And it's just the craziest thing because I want to take a conservative approach. And my first reaction to this was, okay, health and fitness profession. Hold your horses, take a breath, read some things and let's see where we're at.

[00:10:21] Well, you and I were both in Los Angeles for the International Health Club Conference. And that was kind of the, you know, the talk in the expo. And two weeks before that, I was at the American College of Sports

[00:10:32] Medicines Health and Fitness Conference in Chicago, and that was their keynote presentation and the keynote presentation for three physicians, Eric was simply this, and I'm quoting it's coming. These weight loss medications are coming. You, the fitness industry better be prepared. And I'm like, wow. Okay.

[00:10:50] So here's the tsunami. These people who are weight loss experts are saying this. I feel it's my job to make sure that the industry is prepared because I am uniquely qualified by virtue of working with some of the best diabetes

[00:11:04] researchers in the world years ago and reading thousands of diabetes articles and understanding the process of home glucose monitors and A1C exams and HPLC machines and high, you know, liquid chromatography and all these other types of lab things that I had to do.

[00:11:20] In addition to running the exercise lab, I understand that these things are, they have a purpose and I'm going to try to take my experience as one of the nation's first strength and conditioning specialists and marry those two.

[00:11:34] And I've got all kinds of charts and graphs and, you know, boxes and things. I'm designing strength protocols already. And I actually am quoting from a 2018 paper from a colleague of mine, Dr. Jay Groves, when he was working at the medical fitness centers in New

[00:11:53] Jersey, they published a study in the American journal of lifestyle medicine on personal training in the medical fitness world with 10 different medical populations. Two of them were diabetes and bariatric surgery. So I read very carefully this 18 page research report, which is probably

[00:12:13] the best example of personal training and post rehab. And I gleaned some information from there and I said, see what these guys did, and this is how important it is and look at the results that

[00:12:23] they got with body fat and what, you know, so we have a little bit of knowledge that we can actually move forward on. And my, my purpose here is that I want to glean from as many sources.

[00:12:34] Like I have 128 references already and I'm only 10 days into this thing. So anyway, I mean, this is, this is a, and this is the ACSM journal article right here. It's it's a, I don't know, contemporary treatments for obesity, physical activity in the context of anti-obesity medications.

[00:12:55] So they're there right now. They're basically saying here is where we're at. Luckily for me, I have a pretty wide swath of, of research stuff that I can go for. And I actually have articles from the wall street journal, from some

[00:13:11] contemporary magazine things that are talking about everything from the cost of this, which I actually put into my manual yesterday, because these injectables, the, their manufacturing costs is between 75 cents and $72 per vial. And the average retail price of these things is about 950 to 1500. Oh my God.

[00:13:33] So we're in the long business. Yeah, we are. Yeah. You know, anyways, but, but the thing is, is that it, it, it, in general, I want to keep a great attitude here because it's not going to go anywhere in the next couple of years, but if trainers can

[00:13:49] understand the entire landscape, not just the ocean water coming in, but what's on the sand, the trees in the background, you know, the boats over here, what is the entire landscape of this? I think they're going to be in pretty good shape in terms of

[00:14:04] working with these people, how they, how they construct and prescribe the exercise programs. What type of nutritional supplements can be, can be used? I had a, I had a really great discussion with a physician friend last Saturday.

[00:14:17] And she basically told me she loves that bound because it does, because you can gain muscle with it. We go V and Osempic not so much, but ZEP bound is sort of coming out into a class in and of itself where people who do strength train can either

[00:14:32] maintain or even increase muscle mass, which is a huge thing with this medication because most of the other ones, people still lose too much. Lean body tissue. And for me, it's the lean tissue and the water because the water will

[00:14:44] affect all the other organs in their ability to perform their functions. So anyway, so, you know, as I put these things together, I believe that I'm coming up with a really good foundation for the industry to take

[00:14:58] the lead on this because it's not just the exercise, it's going to be things like blood labs. It's going to be things like nutrition supplements, protein, you know, do you have this versus this, et cetera, et cetera? How much water do you have to take in?

[00:15:14] Uh, uh, and then, and then, you know, other, the behavioral aspect of this, you know, there's, uh, I have a colleague who's a physician in Los Angeles who has about 14 people in his health club who are taking these meds.

[00:15:28] And he says many of these people suffer from depression because things in their life, because even though they've lost weight, there's still a lot of issues that they have to deal with. So I have a behavioral section, you know, I have an economic

[00:15:40] session, I have a legal section. I have all these types of things that I want people to understand. And I'm going to try to put it in not 500 pages. I want to keep it simple and, and have lots of charts and graphs and you know, and tell stories.

[00:15:52] I'm telling a lot of stories. I, one of the, my first story in this book is, is the history of the John Kellogg and, uh, his battle Creek sanitarium. Are you familiar? No. So one of the first destination spa resorts in the world was

[00:16:08] not in the south of France. It was in battle Creek, Michigan. And John Kellogg had people exercise, sing, do laughter therapy, march around the complex every day, do swimming. Uh, they did cold water enemas. They did fasting and he's the guy who invented Kellogg's cornflakes

[00:16:28] and Kellogg's rice crispies. And he did it because people had such bad dietary habits at the turn of the last century. They had a lot of digestive issues. And he was one of the first people who really looked at that and, and,

[00:16:40] and, and actually tried to help quote cure the process. And there's a wonderful movie, uh, with Anthony Hopkins and Matthew Broderick from 1996. It's called the road to wellville. And it's based on a novel of the same name that's written by a local Santa Barbara author.

[00:16:57] And it's, it's a dark comedy. It's funny as hell. And just the whole thing about what people did back then. And I just watched it recently with a friend. It's a, it, it, it's a great movie. And it's really about these people who started the health movement.

[00:17:12] You know, everybody, Jack LaLanne and, you know, Nautilus, uh, you know, and all of these types of things, but really the first guy was John Kellogg, Dr. John Kellogg. So I try to start this manual with some of these stories about

[00:17:26] this is the history of where we're at. And this is where we are now. They were in the weight loss business a hundred years ago. And now, and now here we are. So I still think it's a great opportunity.

[00:17:38] I just want to make sure I get all of the pieces of the puzzle put together. Well, here, uh, here's the golden question, I think for you are if, let's say you own DeRoc fitness, right? Three health club, two to 5,000 members.

[00:17:52] And you're like, you know, I really want to start setting up to take advantage of this opportunity, right? What would you immediately start doing differently from, you know, staff, from equipment, from relationships with people on the local community to education.

[00:18:08] Like how would you start shifting in order to kind of absorb these type of clientele and opportunities? The first thing is to make sure that someone on my staff has some knowledge of weight loss from a, from a medical standpoint.

[00:18:23] I'm not an expert at GLP ones or GIPs or any of these other types of things I'm learning on a daily basis. I mean, like I say, semi-glutides, doula glutides, Lyra glutides, ex ex exxanotides and, and, and tricep.

[00:18:40] I mean, this is like, it's like they sound like movie monsters, you know, attack of the tricep. And it's just, they have all of these different names of these things, which are either insulin or glucagon agonist type peptides.

[00:18:55] So I get it, but I would, I would want to have someone first and foremost on my staff who wants to champion these programs. They're going to, they're going to do something like read my manual.

[00:19:06] They're going to learn about blood labs are going to do all kinds of other things that are going to make them a, a well renowned person within the fitness community in their town. Because I know that ACE and ISSA and I think ACSM all have weight

[00:19:24] management specialist programs. And I'm, you know, they can go read those wine is very much geared towards this medication and, and strength training. It's not going to tell you, you know, how many calories you need to burn on your, on your elliptical.

[00:19:41] If that's not what this is all about, this is really about maintenance of muscle tissue and, and fluids while you're taking these medications. So the second thing is, uh, you had talked about equipment and things like that.

[00:19:55] When I started the cancer program 30 years ago, we stuck with the basics. We had a, we had a circuit of machines and we use rubber tubing. We use some of the basics in terms of that.

[00:20:07] We didn't get into the fancy routines and we didn't get into the high intensity routines because they're more of a sports level training, you know, CrossFit type of thing. Whereas here you're going to have people who are dehydrated, they're low on muscle. They're probably fatigued.

[00:20:22] Um, they're taking a medication that may or may not have other contraindications or complications. So I would understand that that person who's champion of the program knows what type of equipment and the type of exercise programming and staffing and all those things that need to go forth.

[00:20:40] And then the third thing is the relationships with the community. In my book, I talk about Jenny Craig. I talk about noon. I talk about Weight Watchers and I talk about some of the bariatric surgical type things that had been done through the hospitals.

[00:20:54] And I would say those are exactly, cause you had the gentleman on your show recently and he talked about go in a 10, 10 or 12 mile radius of your health club and pick out all the weight loss centers and the

[00:21:06] primary care docs and the, and the, and the bariatric docs and the metabolic docs and et cetera. And those are going to be your new best friends. And I would say that's probably a yes. And work with Jenny Craig, work with Weight Watchers if they're

[00:21:19] work with the recreation centers, work with the senior homes, et cetera. Because you're going to get these people on this and they're just not going to know what to do in terms of the exercise. And it's such a critical component area.

[00:21:31] So what about legalities, scope of practice, things like that? I mean, that's, that's a big concern, right? It's like, I don't think anyone wants to be doing injections inside their building. That's well, it may be happening. Uh, I don't know.

[00:21:45] I don't know the intricacies of the lifetime, uh, Miura deal, but I do, I do know that they're going to have, well, they're going to have vitamin IVs and that, that is, that is an injection.

[00:21:55] So if you have a nurse or a pharmacist or a licensed person that can be doing that, you might be able to do injections. It's, it's once a week in most cases, two of these things are tablets.

[00:22:05] But, uh, I don't necessarily know they're going to be doing it in a club because they may have to do it. They may have to time it during a day, like an insulin injection. You have to time it either, you know, fasting or something.

[00:22:17] I know that there's a timing thing that's involved and it wouldn't be in a club, but I want to, I want to know what's, what's the, the, the half life of, of these types of medications, you know, did they come on strong in the second day?

[00:22:29] They, you know, it's like chemotherapy. Nobody, nobody in their right mind would exercise someone in the afternoon if they had a chemotherapy session in the morning. That's standard of practice in the health and fitness world.

[00:22:41] Nobody's going to, you know, there's not a sign that says you can't do this, but you don't do that. And your, your question about, you know, the scope of practice for trainers with this is you just have to understand how the medication works.

[00:22:55] Because again, health clubs like it or not have been kind of in the weight loss business for a number of years. They just haven't been that great at it, or we don't know exactly what their outcomes are. And that's a huge thing with me.

[00:23:07] You know, I'm a data guy. I have a, I have a field research company. I actually published my last study. We just published here was in the journal of obesity and weight management. And so I'm looking at these things already with my clients and I'm trying

[00:23:22] to figure out, you know, sort of best practices. So yeah, they're not going to have to be PhD trainers, but they're going to have to understand how, how to have a very, very good exercise prescription so they don't have to deal with the legal ramifications.

[00:23:38] You know what I mean? You do your homework first and then you limit your liability. And that's what I say in the chapter is you have to limit your liability because your butt's on the line, not the doctors and not the pharmacist.

[00:23:50] They're, you know, they don't, nobody ever sues their doctor for this kind of stuff. And I have all, I have a history of the last five or 10 legal actions against the industry in my chapter. So once people read this, they're going to say, okay, well, this

[00:24:03] is what those guys did. Let's do something different. And part of it is really keeping a good level of, of communication and, and connection with these, with these, with these members, because like cancer patients, they're going to need a little more attention.

[00:24:20] But if you give it to them, they could be really members for life. And that's, that's what I kind of talk about in the manual and what I speak about with people. It's like, and I may have mentioned this to you when we spoke the last

[00:24:31] time that my father was the last lifetime member of, of, of one of the big major gyms in mid Michigan. And when my father passed away years ago, some young kid from, I'm not even sure what gym it was, came up and was talking with him.

[00:24:46] And the gym had been sold a couple of times and they knew that my father was the last lifetime member. So I'm looking at like, like lifetime does in Minnesota, they're actually calling their weight loss program sort of fitness for life.

[00:24:59] They want to keep these people in not for six months, but for six years. And I think it's a great policy to have because first you get people who are not members and then you get these non-members to be members for a long time.

[00:25:10] As far as the, you know, for lack of a better term equipment, like is there any type of medical grade things or anything that you would add to this program that'll be out of outside of the normal, like personal training? Yeah.

[00:25:24] Well, I'm a fan of techno gym because I know I said there's, I think it's their synergy equipment, which was specifically designed for more of a medically based clientele. So I would go with them first, but I'm going to be honest with you. And don't tell anybody.

[00:25:40] I go to these, I go to these, I've been at Ursa for years. I was at the idea. I saw you last summer at the idea conference. I was in Chicago for this. I don't pay much attention to all of these companies because there's so

[00:25:53] many of my know that pre-core has a wonderful line. I spent a little time at the pre-core booth in Los Angeles. I spent a lot of time at the techno gym booth, but they don't have all their

[00:26:03] equipment, they just, you know, they have their technology and they've got some really cool technology and that's something that I think is important as well. You didn't ask, but it's part of the equipment thing is the technology that can look at heart rate response, blood pressure response.

[00:26:19] Um, some of these other types of technological things that are sort of baked into the, into the equipment and the programming, they're going to make it easier for trainers to do what they need to do. Yeah. And you, Jim makes a really nice line too.

[00:26:32] I don't know if you got a chance to look at that stuff, but both of them are really kind of the forefront of technology kind of top, top end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really nice stuff. Okay. So you would find someone who can champion it, right?

[00:26:44] You would maybe do some slight changes to equipment. You would build relationships in the community with all the types of people. Now what? Like what else would you do at the rock fitness to really start to cater to this group?

[00:26:54] I would market the fact that we have the best long-term weight loss program in the community with cool hats, great t-shirts, um, you know, marketing things that you can go out. Maybe some sort of really cool saying that, that, uh, when they're

[00:27:11] walking around the community, people are going to ask them about it because the word of mouth is going to be really important on these types of programs because as people get strong, you know, this in the last couple

[00:27:23] decades, we've had this, this growth of cancer patients working out in health clubs and I always give credit to Andrea Leonard, who's the president and CEO of the cancer exercise Institute. She's trained 18,000 trainers in the last 20 some years. That's astounding.

[00:27:42] She has worked so hard to build her, her education empire and the people who work with those cancer survivors love what they do. They have found their calling. And I really think this is going to be something where the, the

[00:27:58] trainers who work with these weight loss patients are going to see the same thing like, yeah, now that I know about this drug and now I, that I may know what the long-term effects of it are, if we can mitigate much of that with exercise.

[00:28:11] And I think we can, it's going to be a hell of a program. It's going to be very, very sick. The doctors are going to love it. The, you know, the counseling people are going to love it.

[00:28:20] It's, you know, they may not be on the drug as long as we, we, the doctors may hope, but that's okay too. We have to increase the health of these people. Cause you know that this nation has got such an issue with weight loss.

[00:28:35] I can't even quote the stats. Is it 50%? Our obese is at 65%. I haven't even known it. It's just bad. It's bad. Thank you. It's bad. Yeah, it's just bad. So I think, I think there was a movie called Apollo 13 that Tom Hanks was in

[00:28:50] many years ago and when the ship had that problem up in orbit or whatever, going to the moon, everyone said, oh my God, this is an unmitigated disaster. This is the worst thing that's ever happened to the NASA program.

[00:29:03] And the actor who played Gene Cernan, he looked at me and he goes, no, no, no, this is going to be our finest hour. And I see this for the health club industry if they understand, and I'm hoping that I can make this contribution to the industry here.

[00:29:16] If I can sort of give them this whole perspective, they can say, we're going to do the best job that the industry has ever done from Jack Lillane to Nautilus, to all of these companies, Sybex, all these people

[00:29:30] have come through over the decades that have tried to make these improvements. I think we're at a really, really great spot. We have all this equipment that I don't know about. It's still better than doing nothing. Right? I can't name it all, but it's really good stuff.

[00:29:43] And the trainers are way more trained than they were in my generation. And the facilities, I mean, if you look at lifetime, it's like going to a destination resort. I spent this week, I'm going to name drop, two days ago, I was on

[00:29:57] the phone with Jill Kenny, who is the founder and chairman of active wellness and one of the top people in the history of this profession. And she said that they are opening and it's not a secret, but she, they have 72 centers right now.

[00:30:14] And 10 of them are going to be longevity centers. So everyone's moving in this direction. Health clubs are not going to be a place where you rent equipment anymore. Health clubs are going to be like lifetime and active wellness. And I know goals.

[00:30:27] Jim is looking at this too, cause I spoke with one of their CEO guys at Ursa. I know that they're moving in a different direction. And we see this with the cold plunge. We see this with the compression sleeves.

[00:30:39] We see this clearly with cryotherapy and PEMF and nano V and et cetera, et cetera, and different kinds of supplements, except, you know, they're moving in a direction. You, you and I met in Miami two years ago, right? Yeah. Okay.

[00:30:54] Three, maybe they had, they had, they had vitamin intravenous in the expo at, at, at a health club conference. I've been at Ursa since the nineties and I looked at my, my, I had to pick my jaw from the ground. They're having a vitamin.

[00:31:07] They had to have obviously nurses or phlebotomists because you have to be licensed in order to break the skin. And I said, this is going to be in health clubs. And now it is. So there's a shift happening independent of my course and

[00:31:19] independent of just the Ozempic medical model. And you see it too. You know this more than I do. Cause you interview lots and lots of people on your podcast. Oh yeah. I'm very bullish on it.

[00:31:29] That's why I give it so much time on this show with a lot of different opinions because I just think it is the greatest opportunity I've seen in the last 16 years has been in this. Well, and I've been, I started in the industry in 1986 in New York and

[00:31:44] it was fine back then personal training was just up and coming and corporate fitness and all that kind of jazz was great. And when people talk to me about the health and fitness profession and they're not trained and they're not this and they're not that I

[00:31:57] say, listen, I don't want to hear that talk anymore. I said, you don't have to have a PhD to be a good trainer. You have to take care of your people. You have to continually educate yourself and, and you have to be part

[00:32:08] of a health club business model that wants to move with you. They want it. They want you to go get continuing ed. They want you to start new programs. They want to bring in more people from the community. And I think it's happening. I love this longevity thing.

[00:32:21] This is going to be a game changer. And I think the Ozempic, I think the GLP one is part of that movement. Yeah. This fitness for life, this, this health for life mindset that lifetime. I know that for Ramakradi mentioned that in a, in a report.

[00:32:36] And I said, that's the ticket exactly. He's exactly right on that members for life. Well, obesity is not a good longevity tactic, right? That's just not, not by a nonshot, sir. Yeah. And as you go through all this research, um, what stands out?

[00:32:52] Like, what do we not know? What are we not talking about? What were some of the eye opening things that you've long-term side effects? I'll tell you that right now. I, I have, I read almost a one or two articles a day and there's really

[00:33:06] nothing in the medical literature that states where a person who's on, I'm going to use those Zempik because as my doctor friend said, it might be one of the worst of these things, but where will a person be in,

[00:33:19] in five to 10 years now, diabetics are, are a little bit different. Diabetic physiology, hyperinsulinemia, hyper, you know, there's a different physiology going on there, but for someone who just wants to lose 40 pounds, we don't really know because when you dehydrate tissues, that is the aging process.

[00:33:37] Aging, aging, if you look at it sort of globally is, is the dehydration of the body. That's where your skin gets all wrinkly and leathery and all that stuff, it's just, that's what aging is. And we have to figure out the best method for hydration, whether it's

[00:33:52] amino acids, whether it's electrolyte replacement, et cetera, you know, where there's a combination of certain things. And to answer your question, where will some of these people be in five to 10 years without exercise versus people who did exercise?

[00:34:09] In my experience with my cancer program in the nineties is 10 years later, I did a follow-up of patients who continued to exercise after their first 20 weeks versus people who was just in the program and that they didn't want to pay and whatever. They just stopped exercising.

[00:34:25] The incidence rate of recurrence in the non-exercising group was four to one. And from a behavioral standpoint, the quality of life score for the exercising group was 8.1, which is pretty good quality of life out of 10 versus the non-exercising, which was like six. Well, that's 50% less.

[00:34:44] So there's a lot of benefits just to continue the program. And I think we'll see the same type of results over time with people who want to do, and I'll keep harping on this exercise for life program, you're going to see them change their physiology because of longevity

[00:34:59] stuff, the vitamin IVs, the cold plunges, all these other things that they'll be able to take advantage of. The 25 years ago weren't in the vernacular of longevity medicine. So with the long-term side effects, like how much do we know?

[00:35:14] Like how, like it hasn't been around that long or maybe it has, I don't know, but like what, what do we know from research back to, you know, it's not necessarily anecdotal. Like what do we, what can we say with confidence? You mean with, by taking these drugs?

[00:35:28] Yeah. Well, uh, there's, there are some behavioral effects. Some people do have some brain issues because I think that you're reducing the glucose and the brain uses almost entirely glucose as its primary fuel and so you're, you're screwing up a little bit of the brain physiology.

[00:35:47] Uh, there is a lawsuit. Well, there's 14 lawsuits right now against a couple of these manufacturers. You've got Eli Lilly and you've got Novo Nordisk and uh, it's the, the, the, the class action lawsuit right now is what's called gastric paralysis.

[00:36:01] And so what's happening is that the, the stomach is not digesting the food to get it into the duodenum. And so they're having issues. They're having issues. I won't get into it. Sure. But, but they're serious enough whereby they're kind of screwing up the digestive physiology.

[00:36:16] However, in my manual, I'm talking about some fixes for those with some particular types of supplements, liquid, et cetera, that are already sort of being done with some of these people. So the gastric paralysis is the biggest one you've got muscle fatigue. You've got a muscle pain.

[00:36:34] You've got insomnia. You've got, uh, you know, uh, people just forget to eat. That's not good either. They just don't eat. They either have, and then they either have diarrhea or they have, uh, they have constipation and I didn't want to get into that, but those are

[00:36:49] some of these, they call them mild side effects, but it's not really mild if it's happening to you. So anyway, and I do think that, you know, that exercise is this great homeostasis. It'll fix a lot of these things.

[00:37:02] If the body can change itself over time, because, you know, when you're looking at muscle physiology, you can change a lot by having the muscles be in good shape. And that's really, again, where I want to go with this manual is to give

[00:37:15] people what I consider a best in class exercise program for people on this weight loss and this amount of the GLP or maybe this weight loss in this amount of GLP. Like insulin and like blood sugars, exercise is blood sugar dependent with diabetes.

[00:37:32] I want this to be sort of, um, ozendic dependent, you know, whatever your, whatever your scale, we're going to scale it based on your dosage, whether it's 0.5 or 2.5. There's a huge difference. That's five times the amount of medication that's in your system.

[00:37:45] So anyway, I know that we've only got a couple minutes left, but you know, part of what I talk about in the manual is learning from history. We, for those of us who've been in the health and fitness world, we,

[00:37:56] you know, Olestra and FenFen and all these other types of things that were like an unmitigated disaster. We've gone past them. I don't want us to, I don't want us to repeat the same mistakes of the past. Medicine, let medicine do that.

[00:38:08] Let them come out with some new blockbuster thing that they have to take off the market in a couple of years. The fitness industry is going to be solid. They're going to have great programs. They're going to have well-trained trainers and they're going to be more

[00:38:20] embraced by their community because they have these programs. Well, one last question for you. This is probably way more than just a few minutes, but obviously nutrition's really critical and some supplementation, but is there any overarching shifts that you need to make with nutrition or supplementation?

[00:38:36] I don't imagine creatine is going to be critical. Like any other things that you would say across the board are going to be fundamental. I had a wonderful conversation with Dr. Rimka. She's in the book. I actually put two pages of my conversation with her in this manual

[00:38:50] because she's living this right now. She's actually wanting a lot of people to be on more of a meat-based diet. She just thinks that the carnivore diet is important because of A, B and C. I talk about it. Your comment about creatine?

[00:39:05] No, there's no doctors talking about that. Creatine may be an amazing supplement that you can use and you can scale it to a half a teaspoon or a tablespoon depending on needs. And then you can see how much people are, you know, water is going

[00:39:21] to, water is going to be so huge in this. I spoke with somebody about essential amino acids. There's two or three companies that make amino acids that they feel, and some of them absorb very quickly in the body.

[00:39:32] They think those are going to be huge and they already are working for some people. Timing of eating, you know, you may want to eat five small, small meals a day and sip your water as opposed to drinking a gallon like the fitness people.

[00:39:46] Well, if the quarter water is good, then a gallon's better. Some of these people just can't drink water. I don't know why, but rather have them sipping. And in the manual, I talk about myh2opal.com,

[00:40:01] which is a, I don't have it in my office, but I have a, I have a water bottle that has a sensor on the bottom that tells you exactly how much water you drink every day and that's huge because it goes to the cloud and you can actually,

[00:40:15] you know, all of these things. The last thing I'm always going to say, Eric, is that there's going to be some really good data coming out of this as well too. I think the fitness industry will shine based on, like I say, I'm already

[00:40:25] working with clients that want to get their stuff published. So yeah, this is going to be a big, big deal. And you're right. The nutrition thing we could talk about for an hour, I am not an expert at it,

[00:40:35] but I was on the Joe Cannon podcast a couple of weeks ago and he is a nutrition expert and we did talk about amino acids and creatine and, and, and other types of things that could be used in a little bit more detail. So, yeah.

[00:40:49] And what was that? You sent it to me. I can, I think I still have it up. It's the Joe, here it is. Yeah. Joe Cannon wrote the encyclopedia of nutrition supplements about 20 years ago. It's amazing book. One of the, probably the best in the industry.

[00:41:04] Joe Cannon health podcast so people can check that out too. He's actually had some really cool ones on there. I'm kind of looking forward to this one. Yeah, yeah. This is great. I think it's, you know, I already know what I'm going to call it, but

[00:41:16] it, this essentially is you're providing a playbook, right? Of how to execute on this opportunity. I think that's something that I haven't seen quite yet. I've seen companies come in and develop their own programs, proprietary, you

[00:41:29] know, in their own four walls, but no one is doing it for the whole industry to be like, Hey, at least let's frame this in a right way so we can have a conversation about it. Right.

[00:41:39] And I think, you know, technology things like to tout my own horn, but I, I am kind of uniquely qualified only because I had the amazing experience of working in a diabetes center where these people were just,

[00:41:52] they were the top at what the, you know, my, my boss, you know, the late Dr. Lois Yamanovic was considered the world's leading authority in the management of gestational diabetes. So she actually was one of the people who, who pioneered the high

[00:42:05] protein, high fat diets way before the paleo diets came into it. She was the paleo diet. She just did it 10 years before they did. So I learned about a lot of these things many, many years ago, and now

[00:42:17] I get to put some of them into practice again, and like I say, this is how I give back to the industry. You know, even though I said I'm glad right another certification again, here I am. Here you are.

[00:42:26] I just wanted to, I want it to be really good. I want these young trainers to, to, to, to really get something out of this that because they're going to be working with these patients for years to come. This is not going anywhere. I don't think.

[00:42:37] Well, this is as we've talked in previously, this is your Mr. Hollins opus of all the years that you put together and it's, it's too bad that you and I didn't meet when I was in Santa Barbara and had a gym.

[00:42:47] I had a feeling we could have done some really cool programs there because I had a great facility for this kind of stuff, but Hey, we're here now. Right? If Eric, if people want to get ahold of you, they want to keep track on, on

[00:42:58] the progress of this, cause there's a good chance it's going to be, you know, by the time this podcast comes out in three to four weeks, it's probably going to be pretty close. Right? Well, I had a really good friend of mine and colleague and mentor tell me

[00:43:11] I should have a website called glp-one trainer.com. So I have glp one glp-one trainer.com. I'm putting that website together in, you know, by the time the, uh, the manual is completed, I actually just got the graphics yesterday for my, for my cover.

[00:43:30] And so that'll be the cover. You know, that'll be part of the, the, the website as well too, but glp-one trainer.com is, is, is going to be the website. So, you know, I, I, and it'll be part of my website as well too.

[00:43:42] But, uh, but yeah, it's, it's something that I'll be able to sort of market, uh, for people. And of course they can get ahold of me, uh, at medhealthfit.com website right now, uh, as well. So, well, this is great stuff and I'm excited for it.

[00:43:59] Uh, I haven't read a trainer. I haven't done a trainer certification in a very long time, but I'm, I'm going to dig into this one and really get to understand it because I have a feeling, you know, this is going to be what we're going to be

[00:44:08] talking about for the next five to 10 years. I'm going to say at least five years versus it's going to be kind of the big thing. And even though ironically, there are things happening in the world of

[00:44:17] exercising cancer that are really cool and some other types that, you know, I, I'm working with, uh, Karl Sterling, who has probably the top brain fitness company in the, in the United States. And then my clients down in Pomona, California, who have the perfect

[00:44:32] step, which is probably the leading spinal cord post rehab center. So I work with all these wonderful locations and now we're getting back to weight loss. But if we're going to do it, I want to jump on it and really make it a good,

[00:44:45] good piece of reading, you know, education stuff for the industry for sure. Well, Eric, I appreciate coming on. I'm fired up after the whole, uh, no, this will be our finest moment, uh, speech that you gave there.

[00:44:57] I think it's going to be, uh, I think that's the way to look at it. And I think it's really exciting. And yeah, we, we do have a humongous health crisis within this country. And, uh, this, this could be the time that we can really show the value

[00:45:09] that, that we've always said we have. Right. As an industry. So really appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, Eric Deroch. Thank you, Eric Malzone. Good to be on. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this

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[00:45:39] iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share, put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be, please share this episode

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