Emma Barry - Gen Z & Massive Systemic Change

[00:00:02] Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting edge technology experts within the extremely fast paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supportive review wherever you consume your podcasts. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to

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[00:01:47] Empower your staff, empower your staff, engage your members, and unlock your next chapter of growth with software design for you. Learn more at goteamup.com. That is G-O-T-E-A-M-U-P.com. All righty, we are live. Emma Berry, welcome back to the Future of Fitness, my friend. How are you?

[00:02:12] I'm so happy to be here. It's not actually cold here in California. It's just, you know, we dropped a few degrees. So I'm just reminding everyone that we actually have winter here in Los Angeles. Yeah, yeah. I talked to a couple of people from LA this week, and everybody's got their puffies and they got their beanies. It's pathetic. Like it's literally 60s and 70s. I walked the dog. It's 18 degrees this morning. You're a greater man than I. I slipped on ice. It was great. It was fun.

[00:02:39] I want to set the table for people who don't know who you are. Well, go figure it out. I think that's rule number one. And I'm not going to sit here and do any long intros, but you and I had the pleasure of catching up at the Fitness Technology Summit in Las Vegas. Had my bags packed. I ran into you in the hallway. We finally had a minute to catch up, and I think it turned into an hour and a half. We just sat there and we talked. I'm like, you know, Emma, it's been so long since I've had you on this podcast.

[00:03:06] I run into all these events. I always enjoy our company. I enjoy the conversation. So I'm like, let's sit down and record. And to kind of set the table of what we have on tap for today's conversation, but we don't really know for sure. There's massive trends. Let's take a step back, right? Let's take a huge step back from the trends of the industry, all the buzzwords of this year, right? From AI to longevity to, you know, I don't know, Pilates to whatever you want to talk about.

[00:03:36] Let's talk about what's going on at a humanity level and how that's affecting us and how that looks to our industry, you know, kind of moving forward and where the opportunities may be or not. Or just talk about it and make people aware of it. So some interesting clumps of words came up in our pre-recording conversation. Massive systemic change. Unconscious consuming. The age of augmentation. Like that's, those are some pretty cool phrases so far. So let's dive in, Emma.

[00:04:06] You know, it's the end of 2024 here. When you talk about massive systemic change, not just in our industry, but as human beings, like what does that mean to you? What are some of the things you've been noticing? Yes. I mean, I have the great honor and pleasure of really straddling our great industry and also spending a lot of time outside and really traveling at 10,000 feet, which gives me some of this perspective, I guess. So, you know, we all know our history. We went through the pandemic. We came out the other side.

[00:04:35] Things have changed. We have changed. And I would say that we've changed chemically. I think, you know, there's been a lot of changes in our environment, our food, our atmosphere, vaccines, whoever's injecting whatever peptides and GLP-1s. There has been change in our actual chemistry and in our biology. There's been changes. You know, the inflection points, if you look into the world right now, technology's already been there. You and I were arguing with people pre-pandemic.

[00:05:04] Oh, is this technology thing going to become a thing? Well, yes, it is going to become a thing. And if you're still saying those things, you're very close to being out of business. So, you know, but technology has just absolutely changed gear. You know, AI is in every second sentence. AI has been around since what? The 1950s. And it's been there in various forms. Some people still don't even really know what they're talking about. Is it machine learning? Is it automation? Whatever.

[00:05:27] The point is technology is enabling a lot of things to be done differently, better, in some cases worse, especially if not monitored. But that has changed every industry. You know, when I, you know, part of what I do is an executive search and we watch that, the hiring space very closely. Every industry is just stripping out different layers of workers and the work is changing. You know, writers are now becoming prompters. You know, prompters are now becoming, you know, computer scientists.

[00:05:56] Computer scientists are now becoming analytics who are taking over marketing departments. And then we're going, oh, holy shit, we've forgotten how to be creative. And then you're seeing the pendulum swing again. So technology, massive. Generational shifts, massive. As we start to usher in Gen Z, alphas and whatever the B word will be, they're bringing in different ideologies. You know, they are not happy with the world that we've handed over, which is very much a warring light versus dark. We've been asleep at the wheel.

[00:06:26] You know, we're at war. We are doing stupid things as a humanity. We feel like we're in a mess, you know, all around the world politically, like all of these things. And it feels like it's a time for a changing of the guard, even just in terms of principles. We know that the youth have been born in, at least in our industry, with a much bigger wellness gene. You know, it's them first. And I don't think that's a negative thing. You know, we've bled out to our corporate companies for decades and said, you know, take me.

[00:06:54] And then whatever's left, I'll enjoy in retirement with whatever money that hasn't been taxed. I'll enjoy whatever. These guys are like, no, I'm living my best life all the time, like from the start. And actually making decisions. So, you know, the example I think of that is the little girl who was on Duolingo. So she was running their social media accounts, 20 something, you know, but absolute baller. And the things that I took from her is she was asked, how do you innovate? How do you run brainstorming sessions? And she said, oh, we don't do that.

[00:07:22] We just say, hey, I saw this clip. This is what I thought. I've just quickly filmed something. What do you guys all think? So fully developing ideas, putting shape around them, throwing them into the network. And everyone's sort of having a vote, making it better and sending it out. That is like you just saved, what, $250,000, 400 million meetings, you know, a whole executive you can never get access to. So we're seeing things like that happening.

[00:07:46] The other thing which absolutely got me was this little bright spark was asked, what are you doing in 10 years by the interviewer? And I was absolutely dying because they were expecting, oh, I want to be the CMO for Google or Apple or something. She's like, I want a nine to five job that I can go home and have a real life. And I sure hope I'm still creating content. And I went, there it is there, right? Like that is such a shift, you know.

[00:08:15] And so, you know, you've got generational change. You've got technology. You've got, and just to touch into the augmentation, if you look at that now, you know, you and I were joking, if you look back the Olympic Games, you know, back in the day when everyone was skinny and they made their shoes and, you know, whatever it was. You look at it now. We're so close to that medical line. How much can I get away with? You look at NFL, sports like that, where you can actually take things. You can take testosterone. You can take things that take you to that superhuman level.

[00:08:45] You know, you know, I joke about vaccines. I joke about, you know, peptides, GLP-1s, all the things. These are all changing our chemistry. That's what they're designed to do. So we as humans, you know, the biohacking, the longevity, how long will people go deeply disturbed by that movie, The Substance? I don't know if you saw it to me more. Oh, my God. Like you, like it gets all ridiculous at the end. But it's stuck with my husband and I are mortified. Like we wake up every morning going, are you okay today?

[00:09:14] So the point is we're really tinkling or tinking away with our humanity and who we are and what our potential is. So when I look at the world, you know, and fitness lives within that, we've got a lot of things to, we've got a lot of people to thank, really. The Peloton and all the connected people who, during that lockdown time, really elevated the awareness of fitness and finding someone you love and following them into a healthier lifestyle, making better choices.

[00:09:43] Sleep, food, you know, getting out into nature, family time, back to the dinner table. Maybe you don't need to commute to work, you know, five hours a day all in, these sorts of things. So these are the sorts of shifts that I consider on an ongoing basis. And then I think, how does that affect our fitness industry? That's really burgeoning into something more than fitness, right? It's food and sleep and mental health and who I travel with and retreats and all of the things. So our industry is getting bigger.

[00:10:13] There are more professional partners coming in. Medical and fitness are coming together, but not exactly lining up. You're having to partner like we're seeing with Lifetime and people like that. But that's going to change our whole ecosystem. It's also going to make the pie bigger. The 80% we haven't been able to attract in our freakish little, you know, little industry that if you don't like fitness, you're really not going to like it in here. That appeal's got to broaden, right?

[00:10:38] And accessibility has to be there through technology, through the HVLPs that make it less, you know, of a cost barrier. So all of these things are happening. Pricing, availability, options, hyper-personalized, finding a celebrity you like. And by celebrity, I mean someone you love to follow into the fire of fitness, right? And yeah, so these are just some of the changes that I'm seeing. Yeah. It's really solid noticings that you have here.

[00:11:08] And one of the, you know, I've been saying this, I've been trying to articulate it well. Maybe you can help. But we're undergoing some kind of conscious or unconscious rebrand as an industry, right? Whether you want to call it wellness, health optimization, longevity, whatever it is. And maybe you can pick a term for us, Emma. But like that's what's going on. And it's that broadening that you're talking about. And I think it could go a couple of ways.

[00:11:32] And maybe I haven't brought this up to you, but I rewatched the movie Elysium with Matt Damon a couple of weeks ago. I think Matt Damon is awesome. But I was like, God, like that, like I feel like that's not too distant in the future where there's this, you know, the super wealthy who live on this island in the sky, who have all these regenerative science and therapies. They can literally live forever at the best quality of life possible. And then there's everybody else. And I'm fearful.

[00:12:02] That's kind of what's going on. Because even if you look at the people that we talk to, like we go to a conference, right? And everyone there looks pretty fit, right? They look generally pretty fit, pretty healthy. They have their aura rings, right? Maybe a couple of them have their eight sleep mattress. They, you know, we talk about all the stuff that we do. What type of training is most optimal? All these things, right? They have their red light saunas and coal plunges and blah, blah, blah. But the rest of the world, I feel like we're leaving them behind. And the gap seems to be claiming.

[00:12:31] Now, the hope for this, and this is kind of ironic, is that like artificial intelligence may be able to make everything more accessible by democratizing lowering the costs to get there. So, I mean, what do you say on that topic? Like what is this rebrand that we're going, whether we know it or not, as an industry? And how do you see us getting to more people? Or are we just going to widen a gap? Yeah, well, a couple of things. I think, you know, we're, the thing that's built into humans, right, is to step into potential.

[00:13:00] It is to progress in certain ways. And we see that through the ages, the industrial revolution, you know, everything that comes beyond that. You know, the fourth industrial revolution where we are now, where technology is accelerating. And so we're always going to be looking for more because that's, that's in, it's in us, right? I'd have one other comment before we step more deeply into this topic. And that is, you know, the people that we know in fitness aren't really driving where this will be.

[00:13:25] You know, if you think about it, none of us earn enough money or have enough friends in enough high places with tech teams who are truly working on the shit that you and I haven't even heard about now. Like, so, you know, and, you know, Matt Damon's, is that not just all the billionaires going to Mars with Elon? I'm not sure. I mean, it's wild. So all I'm saying is we're at the level where we're at the edge of fitness, of where fitness has got to, not even at the edge of where health has got to.

[00:13:51] Like the truly rich and famous, the truly people who have all the resources at their fingertips, have the med beds and the friends and they're trialing stuff and biohacking. They've been on stuff, I don't know, the military. Like I can promise you there are groups of people on the planet that are way ahead of everything that we're hearing about now. You know, I mean, it's, you know, there's a reason that the Kardashians look great on the red carpet. You know what I mean? Like there's so much going ahead of us as well as our industry.

[00:14:19] Where we sit is that point of the top of our industry in order to democratise those health and living to the masses of people, I guess. So I guess where I sit on this is, I just think we're trying to find what optimal is for us now that we've worked out how to live longer. So when I look at the health system, for example, and it's so broken, we don't need to talk about that. It's very obvious. Healthcare system is there to keep you just alive, alive long enough, as long as possible. So basically you're on the cocktail of whatever, as long as possible.

[00:14:49] A member for life. You know, we talk about, oh, it's so great if we can keep length of stay member for two years. It's medicals going, we want that person for four decades, right, on something. Some cocktail, upper, downer, flattener, life extender, you know, high blood pressure, something to lift that up, something to lift that down. Think about that in terms of consumerism, you know. And that becomes unconscious. That just becomes something I do to not even be optimal, to be alive, you know. And that's the marketing narrative that I'm given, right.

[00:15:19] So you've kind of got medical there. Then you've got sort of biohacking sort of coming into that whole thing as well. And then we're the unconscious, I sort of want to pull in the unconscious thing. So this is happening, you know, I see it in my life. You know, we were joking before, you know, Amazon Prime, great example. Five people in our household, not that three of them live in this household, but they're certainly on my Amazon account. And we literally have stuff arriving every day. And I'm not even aware of it. I'm paying for it and I can work it out and go back. But it's like, how clever is that?

[00:15:48] You're at the point where you're getting bled out by another company and you don't even, you're not even really fully present for that. You know, I mean, that's where consumerism has got to. At the same time, you've got these other trends like sustainability. We should be buying less clothes that last us for a couple of decades, that are who we are, that maybe can be repurposed or whatever. So I think you've kind of got those things going on.

[00:16:09] So that's sort of where I see the industry right now is the medical side, the biohacking, us bringing it into the masses, trying to optimize. But the other thing I look at that, if you look at the full length of life of a human being, and my sister and I joke about this all the time, is that what are we going to do about end of life? Because, you know, we've got older parents now, we're sort of watching them in their, you know, in their final years. And we're also looking at our own future going, holy shit, my sister and I have this, we've got this little pinky pledge.

[00:16:39] If old Emma wouldn't like that, Emma, you have my full permission to send me to Switzerland or pull the plug. Because I do not want to be that person that's just alive, staring out the window for eight, you know, without my marbles, staring out the window, you know, whatever. And wasting resources that I could be passing on to my children, for example. So when I look at the whole, what are we doing here as we rebrand? I think it's stepping into this new possibility that we've created for ourselves, which is living longer.

[00:17:07] Then we actually, we don't want to live like an 80 year old. We want to feel like a 40 year old, you know, for 40 years. Like that's kind of the new thing. Yeah, we have these immortality conversations and people like, you know, right back to Michael Jackson, right? And all the rest of them, I want to live forever. I'm going to live in a bubble. And, you know, all the biohacking people are trying to, you know, but even all that money and you take it, you're adding a couple of years. I'm like, I don't know. I think I'd rather go out and get drunk, like, frankly.

[00:17:34] But, you know, so that's sort of how I'm thinking of the whole human thing. And I think we're finding our way. Throw in there the Rolling Stones. Throw in there, you know, all these retro brands that are going back on tour, really channeling in what they were great at. Old cars coming back. Like there's a real nostalgia for some of the beautiful old designed ways, the music and the fashion and all of these things. How can we make that live again?

[00:18:03] You know, so I think there's some beautiful things that are happening as well as the world losing its shit a bit, I would say. But if you look at the enormity of the change going on right now, that's why it feels so chaotic. And I think part of the human experience in that, we've never been used to this pace, this pace of change through technology, medical, you know, everything is just. And also we're hyperconnected. So if someone, if there's a car bombing in France, we hear about it within seconds. You know, that never used to be the way.

[00:18:32] You know, I don't think there was ever less warring. If you look back through the history of time, we've always, that seems to be our first response to anything. But we're more aware. So these are all things that we're carrying around. So that's sort of a little bit on how I see all of that right now. So something that especially resonated with me there is, so my mom's 86. My dad passed away five years ago at 82. Right. My mom's here in Montana. She's at assisted living center.

[00:19:02] And I'm there, you know, a couple times a week. We're going there for dinner tonight. And it becomes very, very poignant about what the latter days of life can look like. Now, you know, I look at her and I keep telling her, I'm like, mom, you're okay. Like, you got enough money at this point. You know, we sold the house. You're okay. You're safe. But meanwhile, I also see that she's like, I'm kind of miserable, you know, in a way. And I think we, as we rush, you're right.

[00:19:29] Like, as we rush to this longer lifespan, right? Are we actually considering what that means? You know, like, what does it mean at 80 plus? Right. Because I do see a lot of people, especially there's a lot more women, as we know, guys just don't make it that long. Women live longer. Um, and I see a lot of women there who just lack of stimulation, kind of naturally starting to lose their minds. Right. And that's something that's like, are we considering things?

[00:19:55] We tend to rush really quickly into solutions and advancements and, uh, progress. Right. And I think Joe Rogan has a great, you know, synopsis of kind of how things work is like, we're kind of like the, the Warren that builds the cocoon that launches the next species, which is like an AI driven thing. Like we're just, we don't even know why we do. We don't know why we need the latest phone. I don't know like why I need the newest pair of skis. My old pair of skis work just fine. Like technology keeps advancing.

[00:20:24] We keep consuming it, but we're not really questioning like at any point, like, well, why? Like, you know, I'm, I'm, I take peptides, right? I don't even know what the long-term effects are. I don't know. Like, am I even thinking about that? No, because it's like the new thing and I want to try it. Uh, so there's like, I think we, we, we rarely look as a species, like what are the repercussions of the things that we want right now for later in life? And maybe that's okay because maybe we're just meant to live for today, right?

[00:20:52] Maybe that's, that's the goal, but we have to keep an eye on tomorrow. So it's really interesting stuff. And I think that stuff is, as we start to think about and have conversations with our clients, kind of bring it back to what our industry does is, you know, are we talking about these big picture things? Or are we just talking about the next three weeks or the next six months to get them to that one goal that they want? Are we talking about, you know, what it means to live in this new age? Are we having deeper conversations about the progress of life right now and the consumption that we have? Cause you're right.

[00:21:18] It's like, I look back at the eighties as a young chubby kid and I'm like, it was so simple. It was so simple, right? The phone, if the phone rang in the house, someone picked it up. That was it. And they were the only person on that phone for the next time. It was usually my sister. Yeah. And, uh, and then, you know, if someone came by, this is funny, I can't remember a comedian, but it was like, if someone comes by the house unexpected and just knocks on the door, what do we do now? We're like, what are you doing here?

[00:21:47] Why didn't you text or call? If you even answer the door at all. If you even answer the door at all. 30 years ago, someone knocked in and be like, oh, it's uncle Frank or it's Pete from down the street. Come on in. Like, you know, hang out. It was just a thing. You would just stop by. I used to drop off gifts to everyone in our neighborhood as a kid for Christmas. And like, so it's, it's weird that we're, we're connected so much yet the foundational parts of our community seem to be decaying. Um, and it's, it's, it's a very, I don't know how to relate this to the health and wellness,

[00:22:17] although it is core to our health and wellness and our sanity as a species, but I think we have to be aware of what's going on. Well, I think we're back trying to build those communities. Right. And this time it is through the advent, I guess, of technology, you know, I mean, that was the whole point of boutiques, right? Like two to 300 members coming in like-minded, being treated like people, names being used. Let's grab a coffee afterwards. So all of those things are just literally you got running around the neighborhood handing out gifts. Like it's, it's kind of ironic that we've come kind of back to that, but as well as a

[00:22:46] whole sinister thing, you know, like I, again, I look to my kids and, um, you know, the example I gave is, you know, if I introduce you to a nice boy, would you go out for dinner with him? She's like, not without checking him out online. Do you know what I mean? Like not without running that, that deep, dark search of the web and seeing what shows up. And then, you know, they read the newspapers and they see something happened on an Uber ride, or they see that someone took someone home for a date and then tried to eat them, you know, whatever. I mean, there's just, so they're aware of those things and they probably get peaked a little

[00:23:15] bit too sharply, but on the other hand, it's a screwed up world out there. So yeah, I definitely see all those things. I think we're trying to do it in our own way, but at the same time, remember, we're also becoming even deeper in terms of personalization. And that was something I noticed over COVID as well. We all went away and did our own things as a family. Then we'd come back and have meals. And, you know, we were closer in some ways and we were more individual than others. Because when I went and spent time on my own, I went down my rabbit hole of social media,

[00:23:44] films I was watching, people I was talking to. So I became more me. My kids all became more them. My husband became more him. We'd come together in the evening and go, let's all watch a movie together. Do you think we could find something that we were all aligned with? Back in the day, I was only allowed to watch one television program, you know, a week from my mom. So that's what we're in now. Now we have unlimited consumption at will any time of the day that 100% suits me.

[00:24:10] So in some ways I find us becoming, you know, more separate. You know, it's harder to have a family holiday now. Like I'll go, okay, what are we doing? Everyone's got 9,000 different things they want to do. It's very interesting. And yet you'll come together and play charades and all bets are off and everyone's right back in there having a moment. So I think it's about finding the relevant moments of today to get people to come back

[00:24:35] to their humanity and just be together, explore, have fun, you know, do things together. And of course, we're not drinking as much now as well. That's another huge trend. So those barriers aren't down. And it's not a bad thing. I'm just saying letting go and spontaneity and, you know, some of those things have gone. You know, my kids say, oh, I wish we'd done our college years back with you. It just looked like a lot more fun. Well, they couldn't even say they looked because there was nothing on social media.

[00:25:03] I keep telling them I probably wouldn't be alive today. I definitely would have been arrested. And they yearn for that lack of, you know, lack of visibility on socials or someone's caught you doing something right. There's a trail of it somewhere. It's funny that you bring up personalization. It's almost like we need anti-personalization. We need generalization for things because you're right. Like, you know, the content that we consume and how we spend our time and how we can be

[00:25:31] so precise with every minute of our day into what we want to do. I mean, if some of us have a freedom, some of us don't. Some are just struggling to get the next paycheck, right? And that's, you know, very noble and different than maybe some of the people who are listening right now. The thing that's interesting to me, which I've been noticing quite a bit, is that we seem to be fixing problems that we already, that we created ourselves, right? So we talk about like GLP ones.

[00:25:58] And this is what irks me fundamentally is like, it's a problem shouldn't have existed in the first place. We let the farm, you know, we let the food companies, we created obesity and now we're going to let the pharma come in and solve it. Right. And like, there's, you know, a lot of these tech solutions for, um, we're going to interview the people from outside online and like, okay, well now we're actually using technology to get people outside. Like how, what's the irony there? Like it's, I don't know what they're doing. Meditation, right? Right. We need it now.

[00:26:27] So it's just wild. It's, it's, uh, it's a really interesting time. And I love these conversations because it kind of allows us to zoom back a little bit and be like, well, what is really going on? And maybe the sparks, you know, like you're, you're probably a dear listener, not going to get anything and be like, oh, that's an actionable thing. I'm going to try for 2025. But I hope is like, you start thinking to be like, yeah, wait, that is kind of interesting. Maybe that sparks an idea. And then you can reach out to Emma and be like, Hey, I listened. I have an idea that I want to share. And then, you know, Emma can help facilitate. And that's kind of what I hope for with these types of conversations at a high level.

[00:26:58] Um, I want to give due time, Emma, because I was joking with about it. I was like, I see you everywhere, right? Literally like online, physically there's three Emmas. I swear to God. Like you just kind of pop up. You're on stage, you're moderating, you're, you know, hosting a dinner party. You're, you know, creating your content. You're advising for boutique brands. What is it that you, what does a week look like for Emma Berry? Like, what do you, how does that go? Yeah, I love it.

[00:27:27] So, um, I picked up with a new business team 18 months ago. So, um, I met my new business manager. I vomited my life all over her. And, um, she said, your brand is trouble. Your brand is trouble. And I went, oh no, no, no, that doesn't sound right. I think you've misheard me, blah, blah, blah. Slept on it overnight. I went, oh fuck, my whole life I've been in trouble. She's actually right. The moment I'm chucked in a box, I'm scribbling outside the line. So we're trying to break the rules or trying to be naughty or whatever. So she picked me as that disruptor.

[00:27:56] So from there, it was like, okay, that really excites me. So swing to today. What do I actually do? So first of all, none of my weeks are the same. Um, but there's a general pattern across the year. So I like to, uh, so there's two main things that I do. I evangelize events now. So whether that, and. Hey friends, this is Eric Malzone. And this episode of the future of fitness is brought to you by the podcast collective.

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[00:29:19] and feel free to book a 30 minute strategy session with yours truly. Traditional media is dying on the vine. Podcasts are rising quickly to fill the void. Do not miss the boat. That's podcastcollective.io. I'm beyond the part of, like, don't ask me to do shit for free anymore. I mean, I live in California and I've got a family of five. It's like, those days are gone. Like, grow up and, you know, build a business, right?

[00:29:46] So, you know, we used to do, as you know, in the industry, passion, everyone leads with their heart, you know, all of those things. So I evangelize events so that I might moderate, keynote, I might chair, those sorts of things in order to share as much knowledge as I can. So I have some brands that only want me to moderate because they know that I'll do the background. You know, like you, you'll do the research, you'll ask intelligent questions that will actually help the people in the room run their businesses better.

[00:30:15] Right. I'm really not interested in a talk fest. I'm really not interested in having the same conversation twice. I'm really not interested in anyone who does not take action because it doesn't take us anywhere. So at the heart of who I am, I'm here to light fires under people and projects that cannot be extinguished. So what I mean by that, if you and I spend time in your business, I get so passionate and I can see your future. And I'm selling that back to you in order for you to go away and step into that space.

[00:30:44] Right. So I do have that gift to be able to see things. I do travel very fast and I get constantly get feedback that me speaking in text, I lost half the room and they didn't realize what I was talking about. So I do know that sometimes I have to slow down. I can see the gig economy. I see the intersection of technology and whatever. So sometimes I have to, you know, fill in those gaps. And, you know, it's usually the men as well, like the women are usually a little bit more clicked on, but it's like. So that's it.

[00:31:12] So I evangelize events and all sorts of everything from CES. I usually will do some podcasting there. I'll go to Connected Health and Fitness. I'll chair or judge or do something there to help add value there. I go to the industry events. There's certain things you have to go to. I think, you know, the HFA, FIBO, some of those big ones I go to because that's where I really see a lot of my colleagues that I've known for 30 years in the industry. Right. And then I do some stuff outside.

[00:31:37] So maybe it's in the health sector, the tech sector, lifestyle, beauty, fashion, just because they have a lot more money. They've been doing it a lot longer. And you always learn stuff from those more evolved industries. Not to say they're not suffering the same challenges we are. I just did an event here in L.A. for the beauty industry. Same thing. Some of the huge legacy brands are getting their margins nipped away by some of the new up and coming,

[00:32:02] what we would consider boutiques, much more hyper focused on Gen Z or inclusivity or African botanicals or, you know, whatever it is. So everyone is feeling you're having to work harder, you know, to do more things with more competition like that. That is something that I'm finding in all the way. So events. Second thing I do is I work with brands. I used to work with All and Sundry, which was exhausting.

[00:32:27] You end up doing a full time job for 10 or 20 different brands, which in the end is not your best work. So I work with a handful of brands. Some of them you'll see me blasting out on social media. Some of them are more behind the scenes, but they all have a few things in common. One, they are invested in truly innovating, like in the sense of we will get together and we will try stuff. We'll get something together. 70 to 80 percent. We'll put it in market. We'll make it better. So definitely that innovative, open mindset.

[00:32:57] They have to have resources to do stuff. Like I have a lot of people. A lot of people want a freebie or they want some great idea. If you have a great idea, you're going to have to have the money to develop it, scale it, you know, or it has to be such a winner that you can grow it organically and quickly. But it's hard to get a dollar out of a person or a brand these days. Like you really, I mean, you know, you know, even yesterday we were talking about pre-sale is not what it used to be. People really want to try the goods. They're not going to get sucked into, I know what you're doing.

[00:33:26] You're taking my lifetime value. You're getting it all up front. I don't know what you do. I want to be able to judge that when I'm feeling it. So there's a lot of shifts in that. So I work with brands who want to move fast. They're generally in health and fitness. They usually have a technology piece because I think in this day and age, that has to be an aspect of what you're doing, whether it's streamlining what you're doing or whether it's scaling. And then the other thing is I'm usually, I'm just thinking of the examples here. Everyone I'm working with right now is global.

[00:33:56] So my equity came from working with Les Mills for 20 years, being on the road literally out of a suitcase for 10 years. I've lived in, you know, continents around the world. I love travel. Again, I'm coming back to systemic change. So I'm interested in brands that are actually changing something at that systems level because then I know it's going to get executed. You can have a great idea, which is like a program or a mini skirt or a fashion thing or whatever.

[00:34:25] That's actually not going to change the world for that long. It's going to be sort of flash in a pan. So I'm really focused because execution I used to hate because I'm like a creative. I like to go 10,000 miles an hour. I don't want to stay around for the year rollout, you know, like all of that. But I've worked out if you actually want to change the world, you've got to execute. And you've got to execute an idea that's so good that it stands the test of business, right? It is good and it's used because it works.

[00:34:55] So I'm much more, I've noticed as I've matured, as I'm much more invested in those levels now. Yeah. Yeah. You seem like a really good person to ask this because I'm sure you do the research and working with the clients that you do. Uh, the consumer expectation, maybe we can just really dive, you know, focus in on like the age 35 and younger. Right. Cause I feel like that's where the focus, that's where the long-term winners are going to be.

[00:35:20] I don't think me as a fitness consumer is going to change much over the next 20 years. You know, um, I've kind of set my ways. I think you get to a certain point and you either have the habits or you don't, or you, or you have some kind of significant, you know, um, cage rattling event in your life. And then you make a change. Right. Um, so when you look at the expectation of that younger consumer, um, first question is like, how are they different? And we, you've alluded to it a couple of times in conversation here.

[00:35:47] And then who do you think is best set up to serve them going into the next five year period? Right. So, you know, how are they different? You know, they're definitely different to you and I. So if you look at X's and boomers, you know, if you held onto us for a few years, there's a chance we're going to be a member for life. You know, there's plenty of guys out there. And I do specifically say guys, there's plenty of guys that are still doing their, um, you know, their split program from 20 years ago. Do you know what I mean? Like it's worked. I'm still doing it back and bys, you know, legs, you know, whatever.

[00:36:15] Um, because that was our mentality. We were, you know, we would train through a schooling system. You did a certain thing. Even education became outdated and we didn't really call it out. We kept rote learning and doing shit, even though we had a calculator and a computer and an internet, you know, all of these things. Stupid. So when I look at the differences now of the youth, I think they, they morph according to the times. So think about it. They're truly digital native.

[00:36:41] So they are truly tracking trends and behaviors and they're always looking at hacks and they've got a bigger wellness. You know, they're going to put themselves first and they're not going to work an 80 hour week unless there's a really, really good idea. And it's got to be connected to a cause. Right. So they're much more causal. They're much more likely to say, I'd rather not have the top executive job and have those 40 hours back and actually still be alive and not want to commit suicide at 40. Like they actually think like this.

[00:37:08] So I think there's that their preferences are shifting all the time. And again, I learned this from the beauty where they were just saying, just because I swipe right today doesn't mean I'm going to do it tomorrow. And it doesn't even have to be that I hate your brand. It's just, oh, I found something better or someone that I really respect recommended this and it seems to work well with me. So they're making all these casual, what's seemingly casual, but very well researched decisions.

[00:37:36] You know, and again, when I look at them, like, you know, my kids will buy headphones. They will have deeply researched that price point versus value versus how toppy versus basically that they want. Then they'll look at the brand. And the last thing they will look at is your stupid ad promoting your headphones. That is the last thing they will look at. They do not trust that. They go and they go into little secret groups that I've never heard of, talk about it with their friends.

[00:38:04] You know, like, how good is Hayley Bieber's new lip peptide? And they'll say, well, the advertisers say that. Here's what we think. And then they will buy based on that or not. So the preferences are changing. Got to have a social cause. If you're doing corporate bullshit, they will call you out. And if you're doing anything bad, slave labor, child trafficking, you know, all the things. If you even sniff of anything like that or if you're in it for the money, they're out of there. They're also big on dupes.

[00:38:32] So there's a price thing in there. And again, my kids, happy if I spend the money, man, it's like dragging, you know, dragging them through the mud if they've ever got to spend theirs. They're very price conscious. But they will pay if it's worthwhile. Look at what happened with Lululemon. Look at the duping culture, like just duping generally. If I can get something that looks like Lulu, feels like Lulu, but it's a third of the price, I'll buy it. Right? So they're sort of always looking at that tradeoff between price and quality.

[00:39:02] So I think there's that causal that they're not going to give their life over forevermore, but they will love a brand. Now, my favorite brand to think about that right now is Skims, which is 70% Gen Z. So Kim Kardashian. And just think about, I mean, I just think it's the best example right now. What's going to survive? What's important to those young folks? And that is price. She's kept the price really low. Secondly, the quality I think is great. I wear the stuff. I think it's amazing.

[00:39:31] It's cut a big hole in Victoria's Secret. It's cut a big hole, I expect, in Spanx. Anything that's in the shapewear, whatever. And then she's got celebrity to lean in. And just yesterday, I mean, who did she? With the North Face. She launched with the North Face yesterday. Two weeks ago, it was Dolce & Gabbana. I mean, are you kidding me? Now, of course, her Rolodex is huge. But how do you stay relevant? It's a little bit like Dr. Dre and Beats. You know, like you look at these, you know, look at Snoop.

[00:39:58] You know, look at these people who somehow have managed to evolve through the times. Why? Why are they still relevant? And I think they're very connected to pop culture. They have a huge following. They're absolutely authentic, right? Absolutely. He's never stopped smoking weed. He's funny as hell. He knows everyone on the planet. He creates every day. But these are, and then there's this crazy, weird relationship with Martha Stewart, which everyone loves.

[00:40:26] I mean, these are just really weird things, but they've been sustained through time. So that's what this age group is looking at. Deeply researched, causal, will shift. And if you do something wrong, they're out of there. They will vote with their money so fast. And that's the power of consumerism, right? You know? I mean, look, Valenciaga. I mean, I just think of some of the things that have happened where, you know, whether it's cancel culture or whether they're just literally voting with their Taylor Swift.

[00:40:56] Another great example. I know she's a millennial, but it's like the power of influence. Like an influence is a person who can really influence my behaviors, who can influence my spending. I mean, who can turn a Taylor Swift fan into an NFL fan? I mean, that is true influence. That is like a right turn. Like it's like, how did that, that's true influence. And I think influences to date have been a whole lot of people with nice legs, nice Instagram feed. But am I going to buy their shit? Not necessarily.

[00:41:24] But you get a Taylor or a Joe Rogan or a, you know, Alex Cooper or someone who's really holding a huge microphone that people buy into a Taylor Swift. You know, let's go, right? Yeah. Yeah. So when you look at like what we are now today as an industry, I mean, you look, you got like the crunch equinox on another side, I would put like other ship, right? Like, you know, more of the wellness experiences. Like where is that consumer going right now? Where is that age group going?

[00:41:54] Are they following an influencer and going into crunch and doing the workouts of their influencer? Are they seeking out more generalized wellness experiences where they want to kind of down regulate and, you know, kind of meet their colleagues? And like, where are they going right now? Yeah. Look, they're going a bunch of different places. But, you know, if you take those filters that I just gave in, you know, price conscious, want to get what they want. I want to follow people and listening to their colleagues. Right.

[00:42:23] So I work with a few brands and they might be. Look, if they can make the money, like if I take my daughter as an example, you know, if she were to move to London, she would love to be a third space member. Like once she gets a job and they do compartmentalize certain parts of their life, they know that once they get a real well-paying job, they expect their network and their life to perhaps be different than it is now.

[00:42:47] So, you know, think Equinox, think Lifetime, think Third Space, you know, people who really are giving that extended set of experiences. Very nice. So, you know, if they get there, if they're working towards that, they might like that. Where I'm seeing a lot of action, to be honest, is in the HVLP. So in the low cost, I can go for $10, $20, $25 a month.

[00:43:08] And then I think the stat is something like 30% of Gen Z that are on the floor are following a program of their favorite influencer, literally propping it in the gym and doing their bums and tums, strength workout, whatever, whatever. So you're beginning to see these mixed models where I need your facility because I need the big sexy glute machine, the hip thruster and maybe the chin-up bar.

[00:43:33] Or maybe I just want to line one of your mats and be motivated by the environment because my shoebox apartment's not inspiring. Whatever it is. But they're doing a lot of that. So mixed modes, right? So I'll use your backdrop. So I think there's a lot of opportunity to, you know, how can you find out? It's got to be trending. Like they're all doing booty workouts. They look at the rise of strength. A lot of that was driven by female, actually. You know, girls who lift on TikTok, the strength phenomenon.

[00:44:02] Also the empowerment, the actual woman's movement. You know, female leadership coming through is very related to strength training. And its base is empowerment, right? It's building a stronger me. So even just the, even though you're physically doing it, you're also mentally doing it. So I'm seeing a lot at the HVLPs, a lot of them. And I think one of the greatest examples there is probably McFit. So, you know, German brand, they did baller clubs. They started the HVLP trend, to be honest, but they made them beautiful.

[00:44:31] They've just done a refit now throughout Germany and the countries that they serve. But, you know, they love the price. You go in there banging music, right? Holler to people who look like you. Everyone's got headphones on, but they're still, you know, when they take them off, they're still feeling the vibe, perfect lighting, all the sexy equipment, cheap, you know, all of those things. So I think they're doing that. A lot of them are hiking.

[00:44:54] A lot of them are finding the mind-body stuff that often our age didn't find until we couldn't, you know, back the car out of the drive. Then we go, oh, shit, maybe I need to do a bit of mobility. They're finding that straight out of the blocks, right? Meditation, they know mental health is so important. They've watched so many of their friends and themselves struggle. So, you know, they're doing a lot of that. So a lot of apps, a lot of affordable gyms. If mummy and daddy are going to pay for stuff, sure, they'll go and do that.

[00:45:22] Retreats, I'm sure Tulum is full of, you know, rich little Gen Zs going and having their emotional awakening at some, you know, meditation retreat. Hiking, you know, we see a lot of those sorts of things. Yeah, so we're sort of seeing them everywhere, but a lot of stuff at home as well. So, you know, digital first. So anywhere that there's something online, they're going to be doing that. And then, of course, we've got things like High Rocks, which isn't so big here in the US, but, you know, huge in the UK, other parts of Europe, et cetera.

[00:45:51] These big group, you know, there's that community thing coming again. Because the other thing I feel, you know, this relates to your mum's situation as well. Two things in that. Someone's going to fill a need there. To me, the obvious thing is something like VR. And I don't feel great about saying that, but you think about it. Because then you're lost in the matrix, right? And you could literally be there for years. I mean, so I'm only hesitantly mentioning it, but I know someone's going to do something there.

[00:46:19] Because based on the state of your mind, at say 86, 92, 100 and whatever you live to, what are you seeking at that point? Like, is it just mental stimulation? Is it you reliving your family memories? Is it you skiing down a black trail? I don't know. But there's so much obvious opportunity there. I don't know whether that's living or just, I don't know, remembering or something. I'm so divided when I share these views because I don't 100%, again, we don't know what we're doing.

[00:46:48] But look at the mental health thing that we've created through social media and giving that to kids so young. And allowing big corporates to rape and pillage their minds, essentially. And demand that they take over emotional, take on emotional load way before they are ready to sort the good from the bad and the, you know, to be able to separate from it. They're still finding out who they are.

[00:47:11] And at the moment, you're piling in all this stuff which confuses, damages, and, you know, that route to suicide, right? Day one, everyone laughs at me. Day two, my best friend laughs at me. I haven't slept for two or three nights. Day three, I taught myself, like, when you look at those documents, documentaries that cover the demise. And what are they going to do? They're never going to come to you as a parent because what will we do? Give me your effing phone. And that's the worst thing you could ever suggest to a Gen Z.

[00:47:42] But a lot of them are putting them down now. Digital detox. How can I live without it? Like, this is ridiculous. It's owning my life. I don't want it to. You know, those sorts of things. So, yeah, so many things going through my head. I have one more question for you. Do you have time? I do. Okay. So we talked about the consumer at that age group. Right. Something that, I don't know if it concerns me, but I'm curious about it, is what about the professional within our industry? So that fitness, health, wellness professional of that age group?

[00:48:12] And you mentioned gig economy earlier because I am concerned that, you know, as a trainer, like you've been, you were a trainer at Les Mills. You built your own brand. You've been in front of people. You've done work in the trenches. And now you kind of work outside the trenches. But what do you see as far as the profession within our industry moving forward for that particular age group? Is it of interest to them? Did they look at it the same way? Is it a long-term option? Is it a viable option? Or is it just something you do for a summer? Like, what do you think about that component of it?

[00:48:41] Look, I do think it's a viable option. I just think the rules around it and the way they go about it will be different. And I do reference a bit of work that Les Mills did recently on understanding Gen Z and what it is that Gen Z is seeing in our industry. Because not only during COVID, but a lot of us aged out. And by that, I don't mean you should leave the industry. It's just that when you look at aerobics often in a big box club, it's older instructors. It's my age, maybe a little bit younger and maybe a little bit older, still teaching the step class, the bums and tums, the whatever, the rhythmically driven.

[00:49:11] Now, COVID came along, obviously put a stop to that. Some managed to go online. Some didn't. A lot left the industry. There was a mass exodus of those oldies. And I don't use that disparagingly. I'm just saying of the older generation who were trained through Idea and through Schwinn and through Zumba and through Les Mills. And there was a big mechanism. And that was the pathway to have a career in health and fitness, right?

[00:49:35] So not only did the career change, you know, so education has become a lot more, you know, people aren't going to come and do two weekends in a row of two four-day weekends where I have to travel, pay for a hotel, you know, lose my job for four days, have to pay a fee. Like, people are like, are you kidding me? That's stupid. So I think, you know, when I say all these systemic changes, the way we learn what we want to come together for.

[00:50:01] Like, if I could have learned this online, you're going to get Gen Z saying, you pulled me in to bore me with this shit. I could have done this on an app. Or even better, if you do it in a TikTok style, I could have had it down by Monday. Like, get with the program. So I think the way that we deliver fitness has to change. But the interesting thing that the Les Mills research showed was that Gen Z, the number one reason they don't or can't step into is they lack a mentor.

[00:50:26] So they're looking for a mentor, which is probably like an industry influencer or someone that can, you know, bring them into that rather than going through, you know, your PhD and body pump or whatever and having to do all the hours and the learning and, you know, this, that and the other. So it's different. I think what they want is expedited. I think they want it quicker. I think they want to be on the job, learning about the job rather than talking about the job from over here and taking an academic perspective. So I think those things have changed.

[00:50:56] They love the thought of being paid to work out. Hey, I'm doing yoga anyway. With a little bit more effort, I could run this class. And, of course, you've got to remember this is the after flow of the influencer culture, right? Where, you know, a lot of them, I mean, what is it, 30, 40, 50 percent of, you know, the young folk actually think that influencing will be or could be a job for them in some way. Like that, rather than being a college graduate and going and doing some traditional role, is rating much higher.

[00:51:25] Right. So if you think about it, being fit, already valued very highly. Oh, my goodness, I could get paid for this thing that I'm already doing. So does this then turn into a career? I think, and this is one of the passion projects I'm involved with right now, I think it could. But I think a career is going to look very different. I personally do agree that the gig economy is coming. I do agree we're going to be doing a lot of things that are very much on our skill set. And we're not going to be doing all the shit that doesn't make sense that we don't want to do.

[00:51:52] So I think these corporate roles, if you're a creative person, I could see you coming in and just doing creative stuff. So if you're in the fitness industry, for example, I can see it and I see it now. And it's actually been being evolved for the last 20 years. If I'm in the gig economy, I could be on front desk Monday, Wednesday, Friday, because I don't want to use my body all the time. And I love people. I could then go and do a little bit of teaching. Maybe I do some personal training. Maybe I do some dog walking. Maybe I do some, you know, put my hand up as an extra on a movie.

[00:52:22] Maybe all of that could be dished up to me in a gig economy in a way that makes sense for me. And so I'm working on some systems around that right now because I think that's going to be the future. And by the way, there's my passport to the world. I happen to be in Spain for the summer. I switch on, you know, my app and literally I'm like an Uber driver, you know, for things like that. Les Mills, because it's so global. Zumba, because it's so global. Some of these amazing companies have got people everywhere.

[00:52:52] And so I could go to Spain and look, you know, I might need to speak in Spanish. So that might be a barrier or it might not be. And maybe I could teach my body pump around the world. So I see that because people are wanting to adventure. Look at the Gen Z, they're highly traveled. They want to go out and have experiences. They would rather do that. You know, the fact that I can go to an apartment building in LA now and hire the room, the computer and a bike, and then next week be in Madrid, you know, with the same thing.

[00:53:18] Everything's becoming much more convenient and accessible without me having to pay a million dollars on a mortgage and buy a $2,000 bike. And do you know what I mean? Like that doesn't matter so much for them. It's more about the experience and the access, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's something I've heard a couple times over the past few years is I've heard from my own nephew, you know, 24 now, 24 years old. Access over ownership. Like ownership is not, it doesn't do it for them, right?

[00:53:48] And it's fucked anyway. Like, to be honest, like, you know, even here in Montana now, it's a million dollars to get a home, median home price. So what are you going to do? So, Emma, so much enjoyable conversation here. Troubleglobal.com, obviously a very good place for people to go. Where else would you like people to go? I mean, Instagram, LinkedIn, all the things. Where would you like them? Yeah, LinkedIn's the best. LinkedIn's the best. I check. I mean, I'm everywhere, but LinkedIn and my website are the best ways to get hold of me. Right on.

[00:54:18] Right on. It's always a pleasure. I'm sure I will see you in person in just a few months. But happy holidays to you and yours. Happy holidays to yours and love catching up. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, Emma, ciao. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Fitness. If you did, I'm going to ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it.

[00:54:46] Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, CastBox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media. Talk about it to your friends. Send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to thefutureoffitness.co.

[00:55:16] You can subscribe to our newsletter there or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.