Don Moxley - The Next Decade of Human Performance

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[00:02:04] All right, we are live. Don Moxley, welcome back to the Future of Fitness, my friend. I am excited to be back. What is this? Is this four times? Three times? Maybe. I think it's four. I think it's four. I think it's four. I think it's four. Yeah, you've been a staple of this podcast, and I'm very grateful to have you on it over the last seven years. It's been over seven years now I've been doing this thing. Every time I have you on, I learn a lot. I know it gets great feedback from our listeners.

[00:02:34] So people today with the topic we're going to cover with Don, and there's a lot of stuff on Don. There's a lot of stuff on you, Don. People want to go out there and look at your background and very well-respected in the world of sports science, sports performance, longevity, you name it. You've been at the cutting edge, and you've been also being in the beginning of a lot of these technologies. So it's very good to see. I urge you people, dear listener, grab a notebook. We're going to learn a lot today.

[00:02:58] So what we're going to focus on today, Don, as you and I discussed, and this is quite big, 2035, right? Right. In the future, someday. What is human performance going to look like? What are the technologies? What are the trends? What are the advancements that we're going to have over the next 10 years in human performance? And I think, let's start with this. When you say human performance in your mind, let's define it. What does that mean exactly?

[00:03:27] Because I know it's kind of important to the conversation. Yeah. So you know what, Eric? I think our first podcast, we were talking about cannabis, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Yes. And I was living down in Florida at the time, working for a cannabis brand down there. And I was struggling at the time because I had just left Ohio State. I was the first paid sports scientist at the Ohio State University. And I'm an Ohio State University grad.

[00:03:57] My mom and dad had three boys. Those three boys have six kids. Of the nine of us, five of us have been varsity athletes at Ohio State. We have the second most varsity letters of any family in the history of the university. So we have a real connection back to OSU. And so I was there working with the wrestling program. We were doing some really cool work. And you can find a lot of that work out on the interwebs.

[00:04:26] But I wound up having to leave. And so that was a bit of a struggle. So I took this opportunity that I'd been looking at in cannabis. And I was living down in Florida. And I'm thinking, how do you go from this really cool job when you're working with national champions and Olympians and these really cool athletes to selling weed in South Florida? You know, how does that happen? And I sat back and I thought about it.

[00:04:55] And I'd heard another podcast somewhere along the way. And the guy said, don't define yourself by your education. Define yourself by your personal mission. And I thought, wow, that's interesting. So I took a step back. And this was really good. My wife and daughter were still living back in Ohio. I was down in Florida on my own. And so I had time to think and work and write. And I came up with my personal mission.

[00:05:21] And I define my personal mission as helping individuals understand the changes necessary to alleviate suffering and contribute to the betterment of well people. That's my personal mission. And so I appreciate that. But it was transformative for me, Eric. It really changed my world, my role, my view.

[00:05:49] I no longer wanted to go back to university. You know, with all the good, there's bad. You know, and the question is, can you tolerate the bad in order to live off the good? I've made up my mind. I can't tolerate that bureaucratic environment. I'm just I'm too entrepreneurial. I'm too I'm too I'm just it doesn't fit me.

[00:06:12] Um, but I still consult with universities and athletic programs and sport programs and athletes. I still do that. And I go back to this base of helping individuals understand the changes necessary to alleviate suffering and contribute to the betterment of well people. Now, how do you do that? Well, mine is in technologies. Um, and technologies can be, uh, heart rate monitors or wearable technologies. It can be supplements.

[00:06:41] It can be small molecule, uh, supplements that we can tie the science to. It can be practices. It can be breathing practices. It can be all these different technologies that an individual can adopt that will adapt their systems, um, to alleviate suffering and contribute to the betterment of well people, you know, help win. Um, so, so that's where I come from. I'm a, I'm a university.

[00:07:09] I'm a former university professor for 25 years. I'm a, I'm a sports scientist. I'm, I'm a technology nut. Um, I, I'm, you know, when I lived in a house, I had a credenza that had probably 50 different wearable devices in it. Um, I don't live in a house anymore. I live in a 42 foot fifth wheel, so I can't have 50 devices. My wife won't let me do that anymore. Um, but I'm constantly exploring.

[00:07:35] Um, and it's, it's, it's, it's this, this journey I've been on for the last few years. And, and just most recently, you know, Eric, I, I, I stepped back into the sporting world as I was out of it for about a decade working in longevity and, and, and, and general wellness. But I went to the NSCA conference in Baltimore in July. And it's first time I've been at that conference in probably 15, 20 years.

[00:08:04] Um, and, and I was at early NSCA. I presented papers. I've been, I've been an active part of that organization for a long time, but I walked in and I'm at the trade show and I'm looking at the journal and I'm saying, Jesus, they're doing the same shit. They're looking at the same stuff. We were looking at 20 and 30 years ago that literally there's been no improvement. It's, you know, the, the weight rooms have gotten bigger and the racks have gotten taller.

[00:08:32] And, and, but generally the practice and the articles in the journal are, are answering the same questions. Now they're, they're fine minute detail on, you know, the, the kinematics of a field hockey player in a sprint. You know, you know, it's some PhD student is trying to find that, that one thing that they become the expert on. And that's where the paper comes from. Um, there's no new information there for the most part though. Um, and so it made me crazy.

[00:09:02] So I took a step back and I said, okay, so instead of just being a critic, how can I be part of the solution? And so that's when I started looking at, I said, okay, number one, I'm going to do my own podcast. Uh, you and I talked about this a little bit ago. I went and grabbed the URL, um, over the, over the horizon dot life.

[00:09:21] And I call my podcast life over the horizon because I want to help young professionals develop a vision for what things, what things will be in a decade. Because right now someone, you know, one of my students gets out and they go look at what is, they go see the existing weight rooms. They go see the existing training facilities and really one of the only levers you have to pull is size. I can go bigger.

[00:09:48] Um, and so it just gets getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Um, no one's changing content. Okay. And we live in a time. I was just, I was just talking to a friend of mine a little bit ago. The biggest, the biggest technological change in health and fitness in the last five years, last decade, last millennia, GLP ones. Okay. Utilization of GLP ones for people to achieve their goals. And I was watching, I was drinking my coffee this morning.

[00:10:18] And I was watching TV and, um, I saw an advertisement for a aesthetics practice and they use, um, some type of a radio frequency that melts the fat. You lose 25% of your fat per visit. And, but they've combined it with this sonic, they call it sonic. I think it's probably a PEMF technology. He said you do 30,000 crunches in 15 minutes. And, you know, I'm sure they're strapping a PMF onto someone and lighten them up.

[00:10:47] Um, and I'm like, huh, is, is this the future? Is this, I mean, is that aesthetics practice going to evolve into the, the health club in a decade? Um, I don't think so. I think there's still room for this, but I think we have to help professionals develop a vision because that will alleviate the fear of change.

[00:11:12] Um, you know, if they have a vision for what can be done, they won't fear stepping out of the dogma. Um, and, um, and I think, and I think this is important. So that's, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Um, it's why, you know, why you and I are talking today. It's, it's kind of a fun place to be. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I really appreciate that mission. I, you know, I started this podcast, whatever it was well over seven years ago now.

[00:11:38] And I call the future of fitness and I've used this term a lot because I, the Gretzky quote, I want to help the industry skate to where the puck is going. And I say the industry, but really when I started, it was selfishly for me, because I didn't know what I was going to do next. Right. So all my gyms, I'm like kind of lost, not really sure. Someone suggested I just start a podcast. I'm like, I like podcasts. Sure. I'll do it. And then I just started interviewing some friends, interviewing some people I knew and respected. And then I just didn't stop. And I just kept asking the question, well, what's coming around the corner? What could we be taking advantage of? Where are we missing out?

[00:12:07] Like, are we in, in this industry? And I say industry fitness traditionally, um, like you mentioned really has been not good at looking what's coming next. In fact, sometimes we're even looking backwards and not advancing at all. So I love that, that you're looking to do that. And I think there's a lot of people out there who very much want to know, well, what should I be looking at now? So that five years from now I'm at the cutting edge. Right. Um, and I think that's, you know, uh, obviously it's not easy.

[00:12:35] If you had a crystal ball, we'd, we'd be billionaires. Right. But we're not, um, at least I'm not, I don't know where you sit. Um, so yeah. So give us a picture, man. I mean, what, what are you starting to look at as like some of the bigger advancements? And, you know, since you and I started talking, even over the last six years, things have changed dramatically. And since you've been, you know, the first probably heart rate monitor you ever put on, things have come light years ahead. Yes. Um, so we've seen a lot of change, but what, what's, what's the, what's the stuff on your radar? What should we know?

[00:13:04] Don't, you know, Eric, I don't know. Okay. So let me, let me start there. Um, uh, I am, I am on a quest like everybody else. I'm trying to identify what are the trends and, and again, what let's, let's start with what's not working. Okay. And the fact is, is that COVID was a real litmus test for the fitness industry. Um, and it was transformative. Okay.

[00:13:32] You know, we saw Peloton explode and now we've seen them come back down to earth. Um, but it doesn't change the fact that, that largely fitness is dominated by enthusiasts and enthusiasts tend to, um, move from place to place. You know, when you had a gym, your biggest challenge was keeping your member from going to the new gym that opened down the street. Um, you know, that was the biggest thing. So the question is, how do you do that?

[00:14:00] Um, and, and that's, that's, that's a legit challenge, whether you're a personal trainer or a small gym owner or something like that, you know, the new kid on the block is always, you know, bright and shiny and, and having a relationship. But, you know, I was having this discussion with a friend of mine earlier. And I said, you know, the work I was doing at Ohio state, um, with the wrestling program, with this elite group, um, was the physiology different? No, physiology is the same.

[00:14:26] What was different is we mindfully intentionally created data sets. Okay. And we did, and the data exists. Okay. Every time someone walks in and puts a pin in a machine or puts a, a, a plate on a bar, and moves at a certain number of repetitions, they create a data set. And that data set is valuable.

[00:14:50] It may not be valuable in and of itself, but as you aggregate this, it then starts to build value. So with that said, one of the things that I think will be dramatic in the next decade is your ability to leverage your data. Um, not just an individual, but also a professional. Now I, listen, I think, I think individual data management, things like aura rings and, and,

[00:15:18] and now watch bracelets and, and the other technologies that we have are, are creating incredible data sets that when used correctly can be incredibly informative. When used incorrectly creates an amazing amount of frustration. Um, so, so the, the first, you know, the, the, the, the facility, the advisor, the, you know, it may not be brick and mortar. It may be a, a, a zoom call.

[00:15:44] Um, it, and, you know, but my point is, is that there is a, there is data created and it's, it's probably a very high volume of data. If, if I'm able to, to create three and a half million data points from a college wrestling program in one season, imagine what we can do, you know, and, and that was, you know, that was, that was not full gas on data acquisition.

[00:16:13] Um, that was just kind of a passive approach, a little bit active. Um, but you know, if you have this facility or if you have a tribe that you're advising, you have access to an amazing asset and that is in the data. Number one, number two, we, you know, listen, you can't swing a dead cat right now and not hit something that says AI. Um, you know, everyone is freaked out about it. Everyone's losing their mind about it. I like to think of AI in two terms.

[00:16:42] I don't particularly care for that term. I like machine learning. I think that when I can turn a computer system loose on a data set, so it can grind the, the value out of the data set rather than me sitting there with spreadsheets and so forth. That's really good. So machine, machine learning is really good. Large language models are the other side of this. How do we, how do we communicate? How do I make myself a better communicator?

[00:17:11] And, you know, the use of large language models, like I'm like a chat GBT or something like that. You know, I can, I can, I can load up the information. I can ask the question. I can pull the handle. I get the response. If I don't like it, I pull the handle again. Um, and I get to the response that I think is going to help my member consultant, my client, uh, make a change that alleviates suffering and contributes to the betterment.

[00:17:35] Um, you know, that is, I think those are two things that if you're not really starting to pay attention to right now, you're probably going to be losing ground. Um, you, you're going to be 20 years old. You're going to be, you're going to be the same thing 20 years ago, not what you're doing 10 years from now. So number one data, number two, um, you know, in that, in that data management, I think the role of economics is really important.

[00:18:04] Um, and it's, it's the economics of, if I put a, if I put a piece of technology on a barbell and I divide my group, I divide my team into two groups. One uses the technology and one that doesn't. And the technology's coaching group a to stop at three reps. There's, there's some filter on it that says you've, you've met your point. You're done.

[00:18:30] Whereas group B normally goes along and does seven, 10, whatever reps. Okay. I believe, I believe what we're going to see in a decade is the group that did three reps is going to have as much benefit as the group that did 10. So their investment of three developed the same yield as the investment of seven or 10. This is an economics argument. Where do I spend my time?

[00:18:57] If I spend 20 minutes in zone two versus 50 minutes in zone four, um, the, these are economic, um, arguments that we're making and the economics are informing the physiology. Um, this is what's so important. And again, right now you're looking, um, you see a red light panel over my left hand shoulder here. What is the role of these new adjunct technologies?

[00:19:21] Um, how does light impact, you know, can I spend 20 minutes in front of this thing or over my right shoulder? If I turn the camera is a sauna. Um, so, um, what is the value of being in my sauna 20 minutes a day versus being on my Peloton 20 minutes a day? You know what? There's some interesting questions that get raised there, but we don't, we don't get a great answer to that until we aggregate the data. We run the analysis on it.

[00:19:50] We do the economic analysis. Then we use that to inform our physiological, uh, counseling, our physiological coaching, our ability to help that athlete train and stay healthy. To help that athlete's parent, um, get to work and, and not have an overuse injury and that, that athlete's grandparent to prevent a fall that, that will begin the end of their life.

[00:20:19] Um, you know, in the human machine, I think these things come together. I believe there'll be a change in what the facilities look like. Um, uh, I, I absolutely believe that, but you know, the big changes that we start to see are, are, listen, what is the question? What is the impact of a GLP one on my member's goal? Does my member achieve their goal more effectively with the use of a GLP one versus the use of a star Trek treadmill?

[00:20:47] Um, you know, this is, um, and these are the kinds of things that we're starting to look at that, that the facility in a decade in 35, Eric, I think you've got to be able to use data to make decisions. You know, I, I define sports science as creating data sets that give athletes and coaches the ability to make better decisions. Well, this, this is the same thing again, whether it's for the athlete, the athlete's parent or the athlete's grandparent. Um, they, they, they all go hand in hand.

[00:21:16] So what I'm hearing Don is that we're probably at this point asking the wrong questions, right? Right. Everyone's asking, well, what should I use red light therapies? Should I do cold plunge? Should I do how much zone two cardio? Should I be doing VO two max training? Like all these things, but what we should be asking is like, well, given the amount of time and energy you have in a given day or week, what's the best things that I should be doing for my specific goals?

[00:21:42] And the way to get there is to understanding the data, right? Understanding the individual, um, and then applying that, you know, the best, uh, I guess, protocols for each individual person, which is kind of like when people are, I think are saying nowadays is, is, you know, the buzzword issue is hyper personalization. Right. Um, am I, am I getting that right? Am I getting the gist of that? No, I think you're spot on. And, and, um, and I think, oh goodness.

[00:22:08] Um, um, and I think you're spot on and the challenge winds up being how the question is being answered. Okay. That right now, when I walk into a fitness professional or a sport professional, and I, um, I asked that question, should I sauna? Should I red light? Should I do zone two? The answer is probably coming from a position of dogmatism, of dogmatics.

[00:22:38] Okay. This is my program. This is what I do. And, and I, I'm sure I've said this on your podcast before, you know, Eric, you and I are both male, human, homo sapiens. Um, we have a lot of very similar DNA. Okay. Um, but the DNA that we share is ancient. Meaning that you only have evolution with an extinction event. Okay.

[00:23:06] So, um, without an extinction event, there's nothing that clears out part of the DNA. So the other part can thrive. All there is, is diversity. There's been, and so humans haven't gone through an extinction event in, in millennia. Um, so we're looking at a situation where we've had an incredible level of, of diversity. Okay. It's, it's realistic that you could be a vegetarian and I could be a carnivore.

[00:23:32] It's realistic that I thrive on zone two and you thrive on zone five. It's realistic. These things can all come into play. Um, the challenge is being able to answer that question. Again, if you come to me and you say, should I sauna? I'm going to do a needs assessment. I'm going to figure out where that fits into your program. Yeah. We're pretty sure sauna works good for everybody. The question is, do we have time to integrate it? How do you do it?

[00:24:00] And, and should you do it at my facility or should you go back to Wayfair and order a sauna and put in your house so you can do homework? Um, should I do zone two? Well, you may not have time to do zone two at the work. So you need to go back and order a bike that you put at home and use your heart rate monitor. But that facility has the ability to aggregate that data too, so that they are the oracle that that person turns to from advice.

[00:24:24] And, and I think we need to get to the point to where the professional is using data to make that decision and answer those questions, um, rather than just dogma. And, and I'll, and I'll go one more step on this is that, you know, I was in Boulder two weeks ago at a, at an event there. And if I got asked once, I got asked a dozen times about HRV questions. And, and if you've listened before, you'll know HRV is kind of my jam.

[00:24:51] Um, and if you're waking up in the morning and you're looking at your data and you're making the decision of how you train that day, you're on a, you're on a path to failure. Okay. Um, if that, that is what we know that doesn't work. Okay. You're going to get frustrated. You're going to get confused, but I always like to talk about for any, for any level, you've got to have a purpose. You've got to have a goal. You got to have something you're working towards.

[00:25:19] Um, if you're an athlete, that's easy. There's usually an event date that you can circle on the calendar and you work towards. Um, if you're that athlete's parent, um, you're then starting to things change. So rather than necessarily changing for a physical challenge, you may be training for your next vacation. Okay. We're going to go to the beach. I want to enjoy it. I want to walk the beach. I want to do this. I call these trainable life events. Okay.

[00:25:45] These are the things that you hang pictures on the wall about that, that, um, you know, no one takes a picture of their scale and hangs it on the wall. Okay. They just don't do that. Um, so, so using weight as a goal is the worst goal in the world because no one puts that picture on the wall, but people put pictures of finishing the 5k with their arms in the air, or they put pictures standing at the beach with their family.

[00:26:10] And, and so you get that purpose driven event out there, put a program together to achieve that goal in a manner that you define and then work towards it. And then use your indicators as secondary indicators. Am I moving? Is my HRV generally trending up? Is my HR generally trending down? My nighttime resting. Are these, if they're not, let's go back and revisit this. You know, I had a call, um, uh, probably three weeks ago or a month ago. I was looking over a guy's data.

[00:26:40] Um, I'm thinking he's 55, 56 and he's doing good work. He's got tons of data. And I said, when's the last time you got your hormones checked? Um, and, um, he's like, ah, he said, I was afraid you were going to say that. And I said, why would you be afraid of that? He said, well, I'm trying to do this naturally. And I go, wait a minute. If your testosterone is low, your testosterone is low. Replacing it is natural. That is a natural thing to do.

[00:27:08] Um, and, and he went and got his testosterone checked and it was just dog low. Okay. So he's, he's, he started TRT and, you know, I'll talk to him in a month ago and I'm, I'm sure we'll see his data take off because his physiology is correct, but we couldn't get to that point until we had the data to make the evaluation of, huh? I wonder what, you know, what element is missing here?

[00:27:33] So, you know, that's, that's, I think those are elements of what we start to see in 2035. You know, when you look at, um, you talk about work, looking over someone's data, when you kind of balance ease and accessibility of data and the best data you can get. So like, what's the most practical data sets that you can get on most people? Right. I mean, I think you'd lead athletes. You're probably going to be, they're going to be more willing or more apt to get better

[00:28:00] data, but for the general population, like what do you think is, is the highest quality data? If I'm a coach or trainer or practitioner, gym owner, and I'm thinking, okay, I want to start incorporating more data. I want to at least start to learn, you know, how to get in the practice of having it. Like what, what do you recommend to them? What's the best? Any data, any data is better than no data. Okay. This is the first thing it's, it's the commitment to the process. Okay.

[00:28:25] And, uh, for instance, you know, with my wrestling team back in, in, in 15 through 18, um, we started, I did not have a ton of, of, of electronic wearables. When we started, I had, I had one device that I was moving from athlete to athlete to measure HRV. I didn't have heart rate monitors on these guys yet. Um, but I started, all I did was start to collect weight room data.

[00:28:51] Um, and the only, and the way we collected is I had a manager come in. We identified what I thought were the focus exercises. You know, what were the big ones that I really wanted to, I didn't record bicep curls and tricep push downs and things like that. We recorded the big, you know, squat, deadlift, bench press, you know, things like that. Hand clean. Um, and we only recorded their best set. So they did their routine. We collected their best set. What the weight, what's the reps.

[00:29:19] And I did not have an athlete management system at the time. So I actually went to the big data group at Ohio state and I talked to a guy there and I got an intern to come work with me. And this intern used it as a school project. So it was a really cool applied project for him. Um, so, and we created a Google form, uh, that I had a manager walk around to each of my athletes and say, what was your best? And it was usually one or two exercises per day.

[00:29:47] We weren't recording 20 a day that they might've been writing 20 down on their workout card, but we were only recording one or two into our system. This went into Google forms, which into Google sheets that we would write in. We would put a little algorithm in there and then we could turn around and pull it out the backside. But after about a year, we got to the point to where we could start to make some decisions. We could make some, we could view some things. Now here's the other thing that we did, Eric, that there was someone else's idea.

[00:30:17] They said, they came to me and they said, do you have a way where we can evaluate success of, you know, I think I had 38 guys on that team. Nine or 12. I forget now we're all American or better. So my worst guy in that group was six in the country. My best guy was an Olympic gold medalist and Olympic silver medalist had multiple national champions, but you're all American or better.

[00:30:43] My second group that we came up with was guys that had started for us, but never made all American. And our language to that team was, if you start for us, we expect you to be able to be an all American. That was the expectation. And then the third group was guys who never started. Now these people all trained together. They all ate together. They all, you know, the technique was all, I mean, it was all the same.

[00:31:09] But so what were the factors that determined success of those three groups? Well, in the absence of all of that weight room data, I had the head coach come to me and say, I want to do a bench press club. And I said over my dead body, we are not doing that. And he was blown away because that's, that was dogma. That was that, that's what everybody does.

[00:31:33] And I, and so in my data, I found that bench press success in the bench press predicted nothing. And in fact, it probably had a negative impact on performance. If the expectation is all American, someone who spends too much time bench pressing probably can't get there. So we're not putting that on a wall. We put things on the wall that, that we demonstrate make a difference.

[00:31:59] So let's translate this to the wrestler's parent or grandparents. What are the KPIs that they use? Well, this is where HRV comes into play. You know, HR, HRV can be a wonderful variable for me with the athlete. Are they ready? Are they resilient? Readiness and resilient applies to their parents as well. And oh, by the way, it also applies to their grandparents. Now I'm probably not manipulating weight room stuff with the grandparent. I'm like, get in and lift. I don't give a shit what you do. Just get in and lift. Number one.

[00:32:28] But let's pay attention to your sleep, your nutrients, your light, things like that. We're probably shifting this just a little bit. But in the absence of data, I can't get there. And to answer your question, any data. Yeah, good answer. I think a lot of people are still very intimidated maybe at the coaching level within gyms. You know, I think in the performance arena, it's more apt to use data. But people are still confused about HRV. Not quite sure what to do about it.

[00:32:58] The data from an Aura to a Garmin to a Whoop to whatever to an Apple. It's still not unified. It's not codified in any way. So I guess at a practical level, when you're seeing gathering data, it gets a little complicated, especially in the resting heart rate in HRV because there's just so many devices. And I know there's a lot of companies like Rook who is now pulling in all the data. They're making it usable. They're cleaning it up.

[00:33:23] Making it a way that's very usable for someone to have one particular data source for multiple inputs. So that's cool. That's exciting. But like, yeah, what do you recommend to people at that level? It's like it can get complicated at this point. It absolutely can. And so my recommendation is that you develop advisors. Okay. There are people like me out there that, you know, I had the benefit of when I was at OSU, I had multiple devices.

[00:33:51] I worked with, I had four different companies. I had devices from four different companies. So I saw it. And I had the benefit of working with the Air Force Research Lab that at the same time was running competency on a lot of this data. So there are devices that you just measured that, frankly, I don't look at their data. You know, I have a good friend, Joel Jameson, who's kind of an OG guy in this HRV space.

[00:34:19] And I was having lunch with Joel a couple of years ago up in the Pacific Northwest. And he said to me, he says, you know, we can predict HRV statistically accurate with three nights of sleep data. And I thought, wow, that's interesting. Makes sense. You know, I don't have a, I mean, but the question is, can I use that as a tool for coaching? You know, I mean, is that a good enough tool?

[00:34:49] Um, so number one, if you're a professional and you want help with this, go get help. Um, there are people out there. Um, and there are people like me, just, just give us, just reach out. Um, you go to trade shows, you go to, you know, biohacking shows. You know, I'll tell you one of the funny things. So this biohacking space is a space that you and I are both kind of familiar with.

[00:35:13] Not everybody is, but, and I, I describe biohacking as people who want the benefit of exercise, but don't want to exercise. Um, and, and so that's what you see a lot of there. Um, but, um, there's some interesting technologies. And when I go to one of these shows, I visit everybody and I ask a couple questions. So is this technology vetted?

[00:35:39] Um, do you have some fundamental understanding of research methods? So, so you know what, if you're a professional in this space, you probably should have a degree. If you don't, you should be looking at, okay, what are my chops as it relates to physiology and, and, um, uh, statistics.

[00:36:00] Um, you don't have to be, listen, if you are competent enough to go put a hundred dollar bill on a roulette table, um, and walk away with more than a hundred dollars, you have enough statistical understanding to understand the statistics of what we're talking about. Um, you know, so this, this comes into play.

[00:36:21] And if you don't, you know what Coursera, you can go onto Coursera and take a free course in, in introductory statistics and really move the needle, but it's, it's not going to come to you through osmosis. Okay. You can't sleep on the book and think that it's going to migrate across your cranium. Um, you've got to go through an active process of doing that.

[00:36:42] And I guess what I'm saying here today is that if this isn't part of your portfolio as a professional, well, start to think about adding that. I love it. Uh, and I, I recently caught up with Joel Jameson too. And you made me think like his, the, the Morpheus platform, uh, it's cream with morpheus.com. I believe people want to check it out. That's a really good way to aggregate data. Like, you know, they specifically have a solution to aggregate wearable data and make it usable for, you know, training purposes.

[00:37:11] And, you know, more on the conditioning side, but that it's a really good one as well. Yeah. Um, you know, I want to go ahead. Hey friends, this is Eric Valzone. And this episode of the future of fitness is brought to you by the podcast collective. Since our inception in 2023, we have emerged as the fitness health and wellness industries, premier podcast placement agency. We're honored to work with many of the industry's most prominent technologists, thought leaders, startup founders, and business executives.

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[00:38:08] If you are a startup founder, business executive, emerging thought leader, or simply a savvy operator that understands the power of authentic media, learn more at podcastcollective.io and feel free to book a 30 minute strategy session with yours truly. Traditional media is dying on the vine. Podcasts are rising quickly to fill the void. Do not miss the boat. That's podcastcollective.io. No, Joel does a great job.

[00:38:38] Joel is one of the OGs. And again, I have no problem recommending him. I sent him a note last night or day before yesterday saying, hey, I want to have you on my podcast. So Joel is a guy I have a huge level of respect for. He does a great job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's talk about it. You mentioned like the facilities in the near future, how those will change, what those will look like. I mean, do you have a vision? Like what do you think facilities will look like in the next 10 years?

[00:39:08] I think it varies. Whether it's urban, suburban, you know, listen, I live in a 42 foot recreational vehicle. It was important enough for us that before we started on this nomadic adventure that we're on, that I figured out a way to put a sauna in it. I figured out a way, you know, I have, I don't have my Peloton anymore. I have what's called a Velotron, which is an older, high level lab quality bike.

[00:39:36] My daughter wanted the Peloton, so we gave it to her. That's what parents do. Um, but, um, and now my wife loves the Velotron, so it was a great move. So I'm very happy about that. Um, I figured out how to do my strength work when we're on the road. Um, so I created a solution for my wife and I, um, now my, I just, I was talking to my daughter last night and she's a coach at the university of Pittsburgh. She has access to all kinds of facilities there.

[00:40:05] She said, dad, I went out and joined a gym last night or day before yesterday or whatever. And, um, I go, really? I said, uh, I said, that's kind of cool. And she says, yeah, I went to so-and-so they have a sauna, they have all the equipment. I'm not fighting the students for it. Um, she has a bit of anonymity there. You know, when she walks into the university based facility, she's the coach.

[00:40:28] Um, and, and, you know, I used to, when I had my facility, you know, I used to, I had this practice that when I was training, I wore a hat and the hat said, don't bug me. Um, and everybody knew that when I was training, you left me alone. And when I took the hat off, I, you have full access to me. But when I'm in my space and my time, leave me alone. Um, maybe that's why I'm doing so well on my nomadic trip because nobody bothers me. Um, but, um, I get it.

[00:40:57] But, um, but I think that, I think that facility of the future probably is integrative. Meaning that you're going to put things in there that, that, that, that member or that member of your tribe can't do at home. Um, I'll tell you, I've become a huge fan of things like hyperbaric of things like, you know, of, of, of, you know, I use red light.

[00:41:25] I have a, a, a one by three foot red light panel, but I have huge respect for, you know, the big beds, the big red light near infrared beds. Um, those things, there's more light. It's, they're better. Um, now I can't fit that in my rig and I don't have a budget for it. Um, but in a facility it can, it could be, it's so, so to answer your question, it's going to be adjunct technology. Um, it's going to be something that I can't put at home.

[00:41:54] Um, it's going to be, but it's probably also going to be your data center, your knowledge center. Um, when people come to that facility, you know, Eric, I'm a boomer. I was born in 1962. I'm one of the last two years of the baby boomer or, uh, uh, generation. Um, I graduated from college and it was a big deal when we had, when we went from rotary dials to push button dials to wireless, but they were on the phone system.

[00:42:24] They weren't cell phones. They were just wireless phones. You know, you couldn't be, you know, you had to be within radio distance. Um, I still like this mode of communication. Um, I now am old enough that I've got a lot of professionals that are much younger than I am that are very comfortable texting, Instagram messaging, things like that. And, and frankly, it's a bit overwhelming for me. Someone's, Hey, I sent you a note. And I'm like, where? You know, was it LinkedIn? Was it Instagram?

[00:42:54] Was it text? Was it, you know, what was it? Um, and that's, that's challenging to me, but there's still value in a face-to-face conversation. Um, you still gather a great deal of information being in proximity to another human. Um, there's a trust thing that's built there. And I think that that facility provides the opportunity for the tribe to come interact with the pro.

[00:43:21] Um, and that pro has to get better and better all the time. You know, we were talking earlier about the evolution of these, um, recovery centers. Um, and you know what? Two years ago, I was trying to understand cold therapy. Um, so I went and joined one and I went and did cold therapy, uh, anywhere from once to three times a day. And I had a bunch of physiological markers that I had going. And you know what?

[00:43:49] I didn't see anything move the needle. Um, does it mean it didn't do anything? No, I think it probably did do something. But what I learned is that we don't have the prescription done yet. We don't have the ability to assess and prescribe on that. We do have the ability to assess and prescribe on sauna. We do have the ability to assess and prescribe on hyperbarics. We do have the ability to assess and prescribe on some nutritional technologies.

[00:44:14] Um, so I think this is now, this is the, this is the opportunity that that facility has. If they then begin to aggregate, I had N of one. I had, I think I had 45 data points on an N of one. Well, if I have a hundred data points on N and if I have a hundred ones and I go to 4,500 or 45,000 data points,

[00:44:43] I now get to the point to where, okay, I may be able to see something in there. Okay. Um, so this is that, that facility of the future that you asked me about. It's, it's going to have the ability to aggregate this. You know, I don't know if you've ever read, um, Peter at Tia's book, um, longevity. I think it's, um, is it longevity? I'll think about it here. Outlive. Outlive. That's it. Um, he has this concept in there of medicine 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0.

[00:45:12] And I love this, that 1.0 was Hippocrates. If you eat better and you move and you do this, you, you live better. Then there is the discovery of the light microscope. We develop, we start to learn about biologics. We start to learn about viruses. We develop germ theory. Um, and medicine went ham on that. And that's, and that's really where medicine is at today. Um, it's organ, it's organ based. I have a cardiologist.

[00:45:42] I have a nephrologist. I have a, an orthopod, you know, a neurologist. Um, but, but longevity and, and, and certainly some performance is now moving to a cellular level. Um, we're looking at cellular performance and when we're looking at cellular performance, we're starting to look at a lot more data. We're starting to look and this N of one becomes critical. And this was Peter's medicine 3.0.

[00:46:08] How do we use sensors in order to make evaluations? And, and, and I like to combine this with one other concept. Um, the former president of the American Psychological Association, his name is Dr. Martin Seligman. Seligman is famous for starting the field of positive psychology. And in his speech to the American Psychological Association, when he accepted the presidency,

[00:46:34] he said, psychologists are great at helping people go from minus 10 to zero. He says, why aren't we helping people go from zero to 10? And this is where the whole positive psychology thing came from. And this is what I like to think about medicine, fitness, biohacking, you know, medicine is dealing in that negative space. I have symptoms. I have a negative symptom. Something's going on performance. We're working up in the positive space. Um, it's, it's the zero to 10. I think most of us want to be above zero.

[00:47:03] Um, we know that when we go below zero, we're starting to develop symptoms and we've got problems, but we want to be up in that, that zero to 10 space. So the question is now, again, whether it's, whether it's one of these recovery centers, whether it's our clubs, the, the club that, that aggregates the data best is going to get to look at, okay, how do I plug them into zero to 10? Um, you know, um, and, and so I think, I think this, I think these are elements of what you're

[00:47:33] going to see in this facility down the road. Don, is there anybody out there, whether it be, you know, um, athlete management platform or, um, you know, maybe a specific cutting edge gym or performance center sports performance center that you're looking at. They're like, okay, these, these guys, they, they, they get it. They're doing it well. Like they're, they're ahead of the curve. Like, is there anybody that we can look at and be like, okay, this is something we should

[00:47:59] perhaps at least acknowledge in, in look at, and maybe even emulate. You know, I think the, um, the UFC did a really good job a few years ago when they established the UFC performance Institute. Um, those guys are doing really good science. Um, and where it's coming from is that, you know, where that all came from is that when you have an athlete training for an event and as they come up to the event, they get hurt and they can't do that.

[00:48:27] That's a multimillion dollar loss for that organization. So it's insurance. You know, what can we do to keep these athletes healthy so we can get them to fight day? Um, well, there, there, there's some great data that have come out of that facility. They're doing some wonderful work and they're doing a nice job of sharing their data too. They're not black boxing this, keep it to themselves. They're, they're communicating at a, at a pretty high level.

[00:48:51] Um, I think they've done a really good job, you know, as, um, you know, the Olympic training center does, uh, but the Olympic training center is a little different. And so, and it's more challenging, um, to answer your question. There's a lot of people taking swings at this. There are some schools that have done a good job like UConn and Notre Dame. You know, I I'm actually doing a podcast with a friend of mine, Skylar Richards, who was a

[00:49:18] athletic trainer who was working with the Orlando, uh, uh, soccer programs. And, um, there's a paper that just came out literally day before yesterday or this week on interdisciplinary sport performance work versus transdisciplinary. Um, and the interdisciplinary is largely people working together, but in their own groups. And so you have your sport, you say you have your, your, your strength and conditioning people,

[00:49:47] you have your athletic training and medical people, and you have your nutrition and psychologist in like a third group. Um, interdisciplinary means we're going to work collaboratively, but you're going to stay out of my shit and I'm going to stay out of yours. Um, is essentially what they're saying. Um, and, but transdisciplinary takes the approach that we're going to get our data into a single place. Okay.

[00:50:14] We're going to come up with rules for who can access data and how, and, but the data is shared, you know, right now in, in interdisciplinary, the guy in the weight room, the athletic trainer and the doc and the nutritionist and the psychologist, they all have data, but they're probably not sharing it. Um, so there's insights that are not available. Um, it's evolving, it's changing all the time.

[00:50:40] Uh, there's, there's still a lot of dogmatic limitations that are going into this. You know, frankly, there's some people that are, that are, um, they're, they're afraid to be challenged. Um, wow. They, they, they don't, they won't cooperate fully because they're afraid to have someone say, yeah, maybe you're not correct. Um, and here's data that backs them. So I've run into this. Um, and the system is big and a system like that will chew up an individual every time.

[00:51:09] Um, so, you know, you step away and, and you do things like this, but, um, but there are, we're flirting with it. Um, so to answer your question, UFC PI, um, the work that's going on there is pretty impressive. Um, I know those people, I've been thoroughly impressed with what they've done. Um, you know, the challenge right now is for someone like a UFC PI, if a new technology

[00:51:37] emerges, what is the threshold that you have to cross to get it in there so they can get it into their process? Um, and that's what's, you know, in this biohacking space, these are the kinds of things that are happening. Um, whether, you know, I have a knee that I had surgery on four years ago that I had, I got a MRSA infection from that. I was very ill for 60 days. Um, IV antibiotics for 60 days. I was in bed for 45 days and, uh, was six Percocets a day for September.

[00:52:06] Um, it, it, it sucked. Um, but now I'm doing pretty good, but I still have an angry arthritic knee. Um, I have found two technologies that really give me relief. Hyperbaric therapy. I did a, I was in Las Vegas. I have a friend there. We did eight hyperbaric dives in five days. We went up to Lake Tahoe the next day to go skiing. And I was, I was going skiing regardless. I don't care what my knee felt like I was skiing. Okay. Well, I do these, these hyperbaric dives for a week.

[00:52:35] We go up to Lake Tahoe and I looked at my wife. I go, my knee does not hurt today for the first time in four years. Um, and I was a good boy. I didn't ski because I saw a pathway to healing. Um, now I don't have a hyperbaric. I don't own a hyperbaric chamber. It's not something I can do every day. I have this crazy nomadic lifestyle, so I don't have access to this necessarily, but I've come across another technology, uh, a product called STEM regen.

[00:53:02] I started on their protocols, uh, June 1st, um, May 28th, 29th and 30th. I was eating, um, double dosing high anti-inflammatory pharmaceuticals to try and keep my knees together, probably doing liver damage. Um, but trying to keep my knees under by the third day of this protocol, my knees, I was off of all my pain meds.

[00:53:30] By the fifth day of the protocol, I was riding my bike outside for an hour for the first time in two years. And by the seventh day of the protocol, I was lifting. Um, so, so here are two technologies, um, completely in two different domains. Um, and, and, you know, I can go back that when my knees really cranking on me, um, a sauna session really moves the needle for my knee pain.

[00:53:57] Well, when we look at, when we look at hyperbaric sauna and, and the stem cell supplement, they all stimulate stem cell production, um, and circulation. Um, so I'm like, well, dumb ass, maybe you should start paying attention to this. Um, you know, so, um, so that's, but I'm an N of one. Okay.

[00:54:17] Um, and as we aggregate these things, so to go back and answer your question, um, that facility, what's in it, I'm not sure as far as physical assets, um, professional assets. There's someone that understands physiology at a high level, um, and can be the Oracle for those members. Um, because you can't get this advice from an emergency room. You can't get this advice from your family doctor.

[00:54:47] There are some functional med docs that are doing a good job, but you know what? You're paying a pretty penny to get there. Um, uh, so, you know, this is how this comes together. There's, and it's not dogmatic. I can't emphasize this enough. It's based on science. It's based on data and, and, and we're constantly resisting the urge to say, that's my program. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah.

[00:55:12] It sounds a lot like what, uh, what the premise for proof three, what they're, what they're launching soon, which is a really interesting one too. Um, Don, as always, you gave us quite a bit to think about today. Um, I have some notes to follow up on personally. So it's, it's been, uh, it's, it's another, it's another great one. Uh, so nowadays, Don, if people want to get ahold of you, they want to reach out to you about advising or whatever it may be. Um, or just ask questions and follow, uh, what's LinkedIn, LinkedIn is the best way to do it.

[00:55:43] Um, I, I used to use Twitter a lot to push information across. Um, I, I'm just getting ramped up to start that information distribution stuff more. Um, but LinkedIn is a good way to find it. My personal website is called, uh, trainrecoverwin.com, www.trainrecoverwin.com. Um, you can go there and, um, keep an eye out that, uh, we're recording content.

[00:56:10] Uh, my podcast will be called, uh, life over the horizon. Uh, the URL is over the horizon dot life. Um, and, um, and so, but those, those are the three best ways to do it. Awesome. Don, thank you so much for joining me again. I was so glad to see your name pop up in my email inbox. I was like, Oh yes. Yeah. I'll take it on again. I'll take it. I'll take it every time we have an opportunity. Thank you. That's awesome. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Don Moxley. Hey, wait, don't leave yet.

[00:56:40] This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of future of fitness. If you did, I'm going to ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, CastBox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share, put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be.

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