Cameron Falloon - BFT: Intelligent Programs to Optimize Value

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[00:02:06] All right, we are live. Kim Fulun. Welcome to the future of fitness, my friend.

[00:02:10] Thanks Eric, so good to see you again tonight. Yeah, it's a pleasure. I've been excited for this

[00:02:14] since we scheduled it months and months ago. What you're doing at BodyFit training and collaboration,

[00:02:21] what kind of get into the relationship with exponential, what that means. You're in Vegas right now,

[00:02:25] and I'm Australian and Vegas. What could go wrong? I'm alive and kicking so I should make my plan

[00:02:34] home. But I know you're meeting with the exponential team there and we'll get some details on

[00:02:41] what you guys are talking about, what you guys are planning, what you're focusing on. I think that's

[00:02:45] a really great value to the audience here. But maybe we could start with this, Kim. It's just

[00:02:49] given interesting background, man. Come from a lot of athletics. You've lived and breathed athletics

[00:02:54] in fitness for a long time. So I'd love to hear the backstory. I think it's really interesting.

[00:02:58] Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'll go for too long but I got into this field through a personal injury.

[00:03:04] I was told that I had a pretty serious back injury. I was told I never would be active again.

[00:03:09] Get yourself a desk job, which when I was 18 and it was pretty hard to fathom. That led me

[00:03:15] to down the path of studying. That was in the early 1990s and sort of sports science,

[00:03:23] exercise rehabilitation, strength and conditioning wasn't what it is today back then. So I thought

[00:03:29] I got to learn about this stuff. I've got to live with it. I need to deal with it. I had a

[00:03:34] couple of light bulb moments through that journey where I was feeling better through doing

[00:03:37] strength training and rehabilitation. There must be a lot of other people that have these

[00:03:42] sort of ailments that aren't getting advice or aren't getting the appropriate treatments,

[00:03:48] specific to their needs. That really lit the fire in me to get my journey started in the industry.

[00:03:54] I started, finally, up doing PT in London, worked in the UK for two and a half years doing PT.

[00:04:02] Fortunately, to meet some great people and give them an answer by some great people.

[00:04:07] Well, documented train Princess Diana and some other famous people so that was an interesting

[00:04:11] experience. I got back to Australia and continued to study. I also studied my therapy,

[00:04:17] other masters in strength and conditioning. So I've dealt with rehabilitation, working with orthopedics,

[00:04:24] physical therapists, and then in and out of elite sport, in and out of PT in gym world,

[00:04:30] doing gym management, gym sales, group training. But the last sort of part of my journey before

[00:04:35] BFT was about 15 years working with elite athletes, English Premier League soccer academies,

[00:04:41] and working in our national sport in Australia, Australian rules football.

[00:04:46] And that's what the culmination, I guess, of that 30 odd years is what BFT is trying to bring

[00:04:52] that knowledge that, I guess, elite high performance thinking and programming methodologies

[00:04:59] to the mainstream and to give them access to some training principles to keep the one on a journey,

[00:05:05] to keep progressing them. I think I feel like we're in an industry where it's just

[00:05:11] we're a bit lazy. It's easy just to vlog members and vlog PT clients and as long as you get

[00:05:16] the hard sweat and you die and you're on the floor at the end of the session, that's apparently

[00:05:20] a really good workout. And there's nothing wrong with that far the way but there's a point of

[00:05:24] diminishing returns. So how do we, yeah, how do I bring some some considered programming

[00:05:31] and some considered thinking much like you do with an elite athlete because you know,

[00:05:35] you don't have many opportunities or you shouldn't have many instances where you get it wrong

[00:05:40] and you get, you know, they don't perform or they're injured and no sorts of things because

[00:05:44] it's a lot of money in its high stakes. So that's what BFT is, that sort of a culmination of that 30 years

[00:05:49] of experience and passion and trying to bring that to the world. And I did in 25th

[00:05:56] year of research to kind of understand the industry and see what was going on and there's sort

[00:06:02] of three key things that stood out for me. And one was the average lifetime of a PT was about nine

[00:06:07] months. So he's a cohort of people who are investing themselves, they're paying to learn that

[00:06:14] they're wanting to have potentially a career in this industry. And then on average, they last

[00:06:18] nine months. So there's fundamentally a problem with the industry and I can't put my finger

[00:06:23] in exactly what that is, but what if I could build a business model that allowed those people

[00:06:30] an affordable price point as an entry point to get into the industry and a business model could

[00:06:35] give them a good income as well as sustain a good lifestyle to keep them in the industry. So that

[00:06:42] that was number one. Number two was the programming which I touched on. How do we how do we bring

[00:06:48] that elite training mindset methodology and thinking and consideration into the mainstream?

[00:06:54] And I'll just be clear that BFT is not for elite athletes. It is for the mainstream, but the

[00:07:00] progressive programming and taking people on a journey, you know, athletes peak in their late 20s

[00:07:05] which means they're in a professional system for maybe eight, nine, 10 years before they're

[00:07:09] peaking. That's a lot of training. That's a lot of developments. So why don't we bring that into

[00:07:15] the mainstream and give people the opportunity to go on a journey and learn those skills,

[00:07:20] strength training is a skill and it takes practice. And so let's bring that and try and do that

[00:07:26] better than the 13th was education that I talked about. I've got a master's degree in strength

[00:07:31] in conditioning and spent way too much time at university and read way too many research journals

[00:07:36] and articles and a lot of education is going online. And we're in the people business.

[00:07:42] There's nothing wrong with online education, but as a foundation when you can get a certification

[00:07:48] as a trainer and do all of your training online in a business that is about people

[00:07:53] and it's about movements. So how do you learn about movement online?

[00:07:57] I just found that strange. So we have an education vertical to our business. So it was

[00:08:02] you know, awesome. Build a business model. Hopefully provide a really awesome training model and

[00:08:07] then support them with ongoing education and professional development. That were the three things

[00:08:12] that I built the business off and that I was hoping that if we could have a thousand studios

[00:08:17] around the world one day, then you know, I've kind of achieved my goal of putting a very small

[00:08:21] positive dent on the industry. It's interesting to me when I hear you talk to you, can it's like

[00:08:28] now once did I hear I mean, you mentioned a thousand just now, right? A thousand units.

[00:08:33] But prior to that, that was like the first time of any real like business metric that you mentioned.

[00:08:38] I didn't hear like X amount of revenue, you know, X amount sold. Like, you know, I didn't hear

[00:08:43] that and what I like about it is I think a lot of times and Dan Wimer of the first press explains

[00:08:48] this really well. Like, you know, having your north star metrics be focused on value, right? Not

[00:08:54] necessarily because you know, all the other business metrics that we care about revenue, profit,

[00:08:58] turn, all those things are very important, right? Can't be overstated. But we sometimes lose

[00:09:06] sight of like okay, we're providing the value to the people that we want to provide value to

[00:09:10] at the highest level. And that will oftentimes turn into the metrics on the business side that we

[00:09:16] want. So is that intentional by you to focus on those things? Has that shifted over the years? Like

[00:09:23] or am I just observing something that's not really there? No, you spot on it's a great observation

[00:09:29] and I've just come from the meeting to be honest talking about this exact thing that

[00:09:35] I think for me, you know, to again, I draw on a lot of my experiences from elite sport because

[00:09:40] it's such a great learning environment and every day you're getting challenged and critiqued.

[00:09:45] It's, you know, it's very cut throat. We're in that performance environment. And as a business,

[00:09:50] I take a sporting organization, you can be the best sporting organization and have the best

[00:09:55] marketing and sales and so on. But if teams not performing because that's the core product, right?

[00:10:00] If you are providing value there and you're supporting those people, then the rest of it is going

[00:10:05] to fall down. Yeah, that's just the reality. You win the Super Bowl, your sales go up, you know,

[00:10:10] all your merchandise sales go up, et cetera, et cetera. Sponsors want to get on board and pay more.

[00:10:14] And so I agree with you and the values are really good word because 20 years ago when I was doing

[00:10:19] gym sales, membership sales, we were selling a membership for $20 a week. Fast forward to 2023,

[00:10:26] we're still selling gym memberships for $20 a week and I find that staggering. And it goes back

[00:10:32] to value, right? So we as a business in body for training, we have a philosophy that we want to

[00:10:37] have a push out price to the top. We don't want to have a fight and be in that, you know,

[00:10:42] that war of undercutting in the fitness industry and price war. We want to push to the top but

[00:10:46] you can only do that if you provide value. And we really focus on that and our business certainly

[00:10:53] is Ebton, Flodeware. We're focused on growth, we're focused on sales and site AUVs, et cetera.

[00:10:59] And then we forget about providing value in the core member experience from the moment they walk

[00:11:04] into the studio. And then we go, my God, we're losing members, we've got a lot of churn. Let's focus

[00:11:10] on that now. And then we forget about the other thing and it's like, how do we just get a system-wide

[00:11:15] consistency to provide value at all different levels and areas and verticals within our business?

[00:11:21] To try and get that, that will provide value across a range of areas of the business

[00:11:26] from start to finish so that we can keep our members for longer. If we keep them for longer,

[00:11:32] that's great for your business. As a business owner you make more money. The members

[00:11:36] go to have a better experience. They're probably going to get better results because they've got

[00:11:39] consistency with their training. If we can get them coming, we average 3.5

[00:11:46] visitations a week across our whole member database. It's actually up to 4.5 in some

[00:11:53] specific regions of the world which is really cool. But the key thing goes back to your key word

[00:11:59] which is value. You've just got to focus on the value and I've seen businesses that are just

[00:12:04] purely sales and growth focused that they do grow quickly. Maybe the founders and the business owners

[00:12:11] get a little financial win but then the business goes downfall. That's symptomatic unfortunately

[00:12:16] of our industry. It's very sickly all like that. My lens on it is, that's really important

[00:12:23] and I've told passionately more about the core product. It's not that I don't focus on sales

[00:12:27] and store health and growth. It's just if we can't get the core product right, if we can't get

[00:12:33] people to experience, enjoy, BFT and understand where we sit in the marketplace because we're

[00:12:38] not for everyone. CrossFit is an awesome product but it's not for everyone. We're just trying

[00:12:44] to be the best at what we're doing and provide that value in that member experience. If we can do

[00:12:49] that, that plays a big part in helping those other metrics. It's not the only part but it plays

[00:12:56] a big part and makes all of that stuff a little bit easier. Healthy sites as a franchise model which

[00:13:01] we are healthy sites, sites to provide a great member experience that are making money

[00:13:08] helps you to then sell more sites and as a brand you grow from that. If you're struggling on that

[00:13:14] value point, it's a hard slog. It's a really, really hard slog. You know there's obviously you have

[00:13:21] a lot of people who need to keep happy right from where you're at. I don't know if you have shareholders

[00:13:26] not will get into that in a bit but you have that right. You have your headquarters, you have your

[00:13:30] partner and exponential, you have the franchisees, you have the end consumer. What I've heard you

[00:13:36] mention which I don't, it doesn't come up a lot is the trainer and coach right is providing value

[00:13:42] to them and that to me is really interesting. I think that's you know up your background and I know

[00:13:46] like you know like I said Matt Abolk are very similar they're always educating the trainer

[00:13:50] and that's important to them so why you know particular do you know putting words you

[00:13:54] know but do you have such a soft spot for the trainer? Well, I think there's a couple of things

[00:13:59] one is there's such a wide variance of experience and knowledge with a trainer so you could

[00:14:07] you could do a university degree with a master's and through that have been working in a GM or

[00:14:13] an organization where you're gaining the practical experience as well as the academic knowledge

[00:14:18] what you could do a certificate course and get a PT certificate in six months. So there's a huge

[00:14:24] expansive knowledge so that's one challenge that we have as an industry I think which

[00:14:31] we recognize so therefore the education and the support around that's important and then

[00:14:36] the other thing is that it doesn't matter whether you've done a masters or a certificate

[00:14:42] it's unrealistic it's an unrealistic expectation that when you sit put into an organization or

[00:14:47] on a gym floor that you're an expert in kettlebell training and Olympic barbells and the Olympic lifting

[00:14:52] you understand technology well force plates heart rates you know accelerometers you know you're an

[00:14:59] expert in suspension training you know there's so many modalities and it's just an unfair

[00:15:05] expectation that we're experts in all these things so we're okay knowing that we're not experts but

[00:15:10] how do we then support people to become proficient in those things and hopefully like the fire in one

[00:15:15] or two of those like you know what I really want to go down that Olympic lifting path

[00:15:19] and if that leads people to leaving BFT because it's more passionate about a certain area of

[00:15:23] the fitness industry I'm okay with that I've done our job so to speak we're not doing our job

[00:15:30] if we're not upskilling them and developing to become really well rounded and I talk about

[00:15:34] other professions if you're a lawyer or you're an accountant well there's just a baseline that

[00:15:39] standard that everyone kind of has to go to but every year you have to continue to update your

[00:15:45] qualification or accreditation so there's absolute standards so I think as an industry certainly

[00:15:51] some readers of the world do a bit of the others but there's no real global standard or even at a

[00:15:56] national level often really hard fast national standards as to what should have taken to be a PT

[00:16:03] or a strength and conditioning coach in the NFL as an example or the MBA because they're very

[00:16:09] different right they're very good skill sets and needs yeah so we we just recognize that

[00:16:15] there's some flaws in that system there's such a variance of skills and knowledge and that's

[00:16:20] need a good nor bad but if we've got passionate people who want to be here let's do everything we

[00:16:24] can to support them and keep them and keep them developing and growing and if we do that it flows

[00:16:30] into the member experience and members are going to have a better time get more out of their training

[00:16:35] feel more engaged so sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy to set us up but you've got it you've

[00:16:42] got to keep building people up and give them the opportunity to grow and develop yeah well said

[00:16:47] and you know I want to take a little bit of a step back here can maybe you can give us insights

[00:16:52] about the business like when did you actually launch your first location when did it when

[00:16:56] the company started 2016 launched launched the first locations so it did a couple years of a year

[00:17:04] sort of R&D and then and starting to build out all the technology in the software

[00:17:10] and then did four test sites so first one in 2016 June then then November of 2016

[00:17:18] and then a couple in 2017 mid-year and and that was you know really important it was learning

[00:17:24] lessons making a lot of mistakes getting feedback from members what are they liking what are they

[00:17:29] not liking getting that feedback not just to evolve the programming but understand how we're

[00:17:37] you know some of the challenges we're going to face to educate people and what we're doing and

[00:17:40] how we're doing it why and then learn the business you know we've got our first site wrong the

[00:17:47] space was too small we didn't have enough bums on seats we got the multiples of equipment wrong

[00:17:51] so we get it next site go a little bit bigger we eventually get it right on the fourth site

[00:17:57] and not to be honest not much has changed in send we continue to innovate but the actual spaces

[00:18:03] very similar the multiples of equipment are similar that two years was really critical

[00:18:10] and probably the most important thing is making the mistakes because when you're a franchise

[00:18:16] business like us people are investing and the expectation is you have the process and you have

[00:18:21] the answers it's very hard to have the answers if you haven't walked in their shoes and you

[00:18:25] haven't made those mistakes so there's a really valuable two years of learning and and then the

[00:18:31] ability to once the system was built to have people come and be able to actually experience it

[00:18:35] and touch it and feel it was also really valuable we weren't just building it off one site

[00:18:42] we could say we've got four different locations he's the actual you know PNLs that we've built

[00:18:47] the business model off so it's real numbers you can go and speak to the owners of the managers

[00:18:52] so that was really really valuable a really valuable learning experience and towards the end of

[00:18:57] that part I took on some shareholders Richard Burdett and Hamish McLaughlin,

[00:19:03] Hamish is a soil investor Richard works in the business he heads up all of our sales and marketing

[00:19:08] isn't absolute gun and he's now a global CEO so that was a really good partnership and strategic

[00:19:16] partnership because you know Richard could take that side of the business and I could continue to

[00:19:20] evolve you know my sweet spot which was the program in the education the software and the innovation

[00:19:25] side of the business so it's been a really good relationship and largely in part why we've been

[00:19:33] able to grow and sustain the growth in such a short amount of time and where are you guys now

[00:19:38] I mean we're in Q3 or Q4 sorry 2023 like give us give us some insights into how the brand has grown

[00:19:45] since 2016 yeah so we've launched efficient we officially launched selling franchises in April of

[00:19:52] 2018 off the back of those learnings from the four sites so since then we're currently at

[00:20:02] including North America we're just over 300 open locations across seven countries

[00:20:08] well got over 700 sold across those countries and we've just opened our third studio in

[00:20:15] London in the UK which is really exciting Spain's currently in development phase and getting

[00:20:23] going to be open in the new year and we're looking at some other countries in Asia Indonesia

[00:20:27] and and Korea so it's really exciting you know Expo have the brand in the US and doing really good

[00:20:33] things with the brand in the US it was awesome just been at the conference as you said I'm in Vegas

[00:20:39] and yeah so good to see so many people in this part of the world that are so passionate you know

[00:20:44] about a brand that started on my dining room table it's pretty humbling and and and and really

[00:20:51] nice to see that so they're just so passionate about it they can't wait some have got got their

[00:20:55] stores open others are in development phase and others are looking for real estate but they're

[00:20:59] super passionate and I think in America actually Eric with how you do strengthening conditioning here

[00:21:06] which is I think really well through you know the high school and the college system people get our

[00:21:12] brand they really it really resonates with them so crossfit so big here you know orange series

[00:21:19] so big here but there's for ease for the people who are listening you know we sit right smack

[00:21:24] bang in the middle of that it is the easiest way to kind of I guess conceptualize it and so

[00:21:31] you know we're found that our sales have been so strong here because of that people just go oh my god

[00:21:35] yeah you know I used to do training in college but there's nowhere to go for that sort of strengthening

[00:21:39] conditioning style of training so it's been nice to see and yeah we've got some really big

[00:21:46] growth happening across the world with opens we've obviously half half of our stores open half

[00:21:51] are not open so we're excited about that growth and hopefully the thousands sale is not too far away

[00:21:58] and that'll be a little peek in the box to sell the thousand but then we're going to get them open

[00:22:03] and get the people through the front door hey friends Eric Malzone here I've had the owner of

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[00:23:24] hesitate to reach out learn more go to podcastcollective.io to learn more and contact me directly that's

[00:23:31] podcastcollective.io I'd say that's a pretty big tick in the box camp I'd have found you get a

[00:23:43] thousand sold for people who are less human maybe interested in exploring you know being a franchise

[00:23:50] like what are some of the you know I have a lecture franchise documentation so I apologize but

[00:23:55] like you know square footage investment like you know all the basic fundamentals of what it

[00:24:00] takes to open with these yeah I won't talk specifically to the US because Expo run it so I'm

[00:24:06] not close to the numbers but I can talk square feet so square feet are around about 2,000 2,200 square

[00:24:13] feet which in Australia is 240 square meters around about 250,000 as an investment so we're

[00:24:22] a low investment high yield model we have an average payback period in the in the regions where

[00:24:28] we operate of 19 months and we have an average opening member number of 161 I think it is currently

[00:24:40] which means that 90% of our sites are making money day one and we work really hard on that

[00:24:45] again that goes back to that education and support that we were talking about it's not just on

[00:24:50] the core product but it's on you know system sales and and and processes of marketing to

[00:24:56] to make sure that we know that when sites open with like 120 members and less they become

[00:25:03] what we call red flagsites they struggle we know that when they open with over 150

[00:25:09] they're strong viable they're growth they see a quick couple you know that hockey hockey stick type

[00:25:15] spike in their member number and and so we really focus on that and educate them on that

[00:25:21] and and support them through that it's really important we have franchise performance managers

[00:25:27] that one per 30 franchisees to make sure that this their well supported their hand is held

[00:25:32] it's still their business so we want them to bring their own DNA in flavor to it but our responsibility

[00:25:38] is to make sure that they are successful and also that is staying on brand and you know we operate

[00:25:43] in what we call a flexibility within the framework so the framework is that's BFT and that's

[00:25:50] the system that's the franchise system like you know much like a McDonald's but the flexibility

[00:25:55] within that is is the individuals and bringing their their personality to the business their flair

[00:26:01] on the floor member engagement you know marketing as long as it stays on brand so we're really

[00:26:07] encouraged that you know where we are a system we do have our processes as a brand but we also want

[00:26:13] to embrace you know individuals and and everyone's different right everyone brings something to the

[00:26:18] table it's valuable so let's all embrace that and also then share across the network what those

[00:26:23] things are that are successful and hopefully if we can share those things and you know share best

[00:26:28] practice across different areas of the business them we all benefit and continue to grow

[00:26:31] yeah it's so funny you can like that number 150 you and I are talking about prior to recording

[00:26:38] right it's just yeah you know the dumb bar number 150 like whatever it just seems so universal across

[00:26:44] you know especially the boutique fitness landscape it's just so funny to me like why it's such a

[00:26:50] clean number right but it's it's just really interesting the I want to get on the the actual

[00:26:57] like consumer experience of BFT you mentioned technology you mentioned training you mentioned

[00:27:02] equipment then we were going to dive into the specifics like you know what makes the the consumer

[00:27:06] experience unique at BFT compared to you know like the crossfit it's in the orange series you guys

[00:27:11] kind of come in the middle what what makes it special yeah so the premise of every week that we

[00:27:16] do in our programming is that we try and target each of the three muscle fiber types we target

[00:27:22] the three energy systems and the three facial planes of movement so what we're trying to do is give

[00:27:28] people a well-rounded experience with their exercise and that that journey so that they're not

[00:27:34] overloading on one energy system they're developing them all they're not overloading on say

[00:27:40] sagittal blame movement which is very common in the fitness industry so they joints their muscles

[00:27:46] their tendons are getting challenged in different different ways means and methods to limit injuries

[00:27:53] to limit overuse to allow them to keep coming back and and progressing the other thing with that

[00:27:59] that we layer is the modality so we have a lot of different modalities from Olympic barbells to

[00:28:05] you know competition kettlebells to power bands and suspension training and the use of

[00:28:10] both suits and foam rolls and those sorts of things so we use a lot of different modalities to support

[00:28:15] that system and then we do everything in eight week training cycles Eric so we much like doing

[00:28:22] you know a meso cycle in elite conditioning we look at the macro the year and then we just break

[00:28:28] it down into individual sort of micro cycles and we have a theme to every eight weeks and the programming

[00:28:36] so we have 14 programs you won't see all 14 of those programs in an eight week cycle

[00:28:43] so we don't just put things in for the sake of it everything is is in for a rhyme and a reason

[00:28:49] when we program we start with strength as the base we believe and I believe that strength is

[00:28:53] a foundation for all physical performance at some level and so we go okay what's the theme for

[00:28:59] the for the strength cycle what are what are the exercises we're putting in what do we want to end

[00:29:03] up with at the end of the eight weeks and let's work backwards and then what are the other resistance

[00:29:07] programs that are in the cycle and how do they support getting a good outcome in the strength training

[00:29:12] so for our hyper program which is like a functional bodybuilding style program

[00:29:20] we will do a lot of different stability unilateral movements

[00:29:24] multiplying the stuff where we're looking at okay if it's if we're wanting to get better at our

[00:29:29] squat how do we get better back strength and hip stability is an example very simple example

[00:29:36] so we'll consider all of those things and then we put it into a training cycle and then it

[00:29:40] tested we actually have a fantastic team of people who put the programs together and then we

[00:29:45] actually physically test every single program because sometimes when you write it you don't get

[00:29:51] what you think you're getting and you're like oh man I'm going to do the week of my shoulder

[00:29:55] is a killing in me or hand strings are killing me like oh we're going to change that so then

[00:29:59] that we get reviewed and then and then we lay that with technology so we have a high-rate system

[00:30:04] with its own system we spent four years building it where one of the one of the things I saw

[00:30:10] that I was frustrated with with typical high-rate systems in the fitness industry that have

[00:30:14] gamification is they're only rewarding higher exertion get your high-rate to eighty-nine

[00:30:20] eighty-five percent you know you're getting four points per minute or whatever but if you're

[00:30:24] strength training and you're doing a three RM back squat which is you know high 80s maybe 90% max

[00:30:30] max exertion if you're doing a proper genuine three RM you're not actually getting rewarded for that

[00:30:36] yet that's bloody hard as you know like it's that's tough right and so then you go and have

[00:30:41] a four minute rest period and your heart rate comes right down then you do another 90% max effort

[00:30:46] again and and these heart rate systems weren't rewarding that so we we went back through four years

[00:30:52] of data and had a look at a how around them is responding when we program our strength programs

[00:30:57] to different exercise and how they're responding to say strength endurance and we developed a

[00:31:02] system that we could quantify that and then reward being in the heart rate zone specific to that

[00:31:07] exercise and even more specific to that set because as you know with if you do five sets of back squats

[00:31:15] at a three RM you are going to accumulate stress which means your heart rate will be higher on

[00:31:20] the fifth set than what it is on the first set and so we looked at four we looked at millions and

[00:31:26] millions of rows of data and this is the nerdy side of me that we're you know what let's flip

[00:31:32] this on a TED let's build our own system and let's reward strength using heart rate and so we have

[00:31:38] a heart rate system called cubed and it's an awesome tool for trainers and it's an awesome tool for

[00:31:42] members because I can be in a studio coaching and you know Eric's Eric's on the squat rack and I

[00:31:49] can see that it's his third set we have digital displays so I can see them since third set and

[00:31:54] I can see that it says that he should be around 65% of his max heart rate and if you're not it's

[00:32:00] really simple is Eric got good technique yep I know him is a member I should know about his exercise

[00:32:05] issue so I know he's capable Eric hey feeling today yeah I'm good camo mom no problems at all hey mate

[00:32:12] let's put a little bit more weight on the bar and you're now going to elicit a physiological response

[00:32:18] so let's just say you put another five kilos on the bar it's going to slow you down so slow

[00:32:23] slower time and attention allows your heart rate to get a little bit higher you hit your target

[00:32:28] you get a better result you feel like you're being coached which you are it's a personal experience

[00:32:32] because your heart rate and your response is your response and so something as simple as that

[00:32:39] has had a huge sweeping chain so it's a very long answer to your questions I apologize but yeah we

[00:32:45] do eight week training cycles we progress and cycle them throughout the year and then we layer that

[00:32:50] with technology I think most importantly none of our programs go to any of our franchisees until

[00:32:55] we've we've actually physically tested them with a cohort of 14 to 20 people you know um I love it

[00:33:01] I really do especially quantifying the strength training in a way that's meaningful to the consumer

[00:33:05] right that's been a big challenge I know the people at total a bit on that like how do we reward

[00:33:10] you know make people feel rewarded because you do like a workout with a hurry monitor it's like

[00:33:14] oh I burned this many calories cool because I was on a bike right like that's what everyone cares about

[00:33:18] and they're like yeah yeah but you do like a strength set and it's like like there's not much

[00:33:22] you can really get back from those technologies so it's it's it's not it's not as motivating as it could

[00:33:28] be and obviously your your guy who loves program design and loves performance side of things and

[00:33:33] be quite honest so it was I like I did all the program design for my gym for you know seven years

[00:33:38] and I geeked out on that's why I was attracted to James sterile who was my coach and mentor for a

[00:33:42] long time um here's a question though and this like the strikes to the heart of many people who do

[00:33:47] program design for gyms is like how much we care we love it we think it's really important but how

[00:33:53] much does the end consumer care about program design like and and how much you know can you influence

[00:34:00] their caring about it because we know it's important right well thought they just see numbers on a

[00:34:05] board and they go through the workout and they show up that day they don't know the thought that

[00:34:08] goes into it and the planning and you know the intricacies of how we're trying to keep them safe

[00:34:13] yet moving on a you know a progressive timeline like there's just a lot that goes into it so you

[00:34:18] know how do you how do you approach making the consumer care more about the programming or is

[00:34:23] that even a thought you just do it because you know it's the right thing yeah if that's a really

[00:34:28] good question um the simple answer is that early I think they give a shit about the program

[00:34:33] haha um but it's a bit like the it's a bit like the the question around you know the support

[00:34:44] that we give trainers and in different areas of our business as well to keep them on that journey

[00:34:48] and learning and growing is we know a lot of trainers don't understand a lot of PT is don't

[00:34:53] understand the complexities around heart rate training and that's just I'm not barbie facetious

[00:34:58] that's just a fact right and so if if educated people in our industry don't know that

[00:35:05] or aren't really you know experts at it then we've got to understand the consumer just has no idea

[00:35:12] and so that the programming isn't the important bit for me what the important bit is first of all

[00:35:18] in gaysum and give them a great experience into the the the word you use dearly it provide value

[00:35:23] because if they're having fun and they're feeling like they're getting value they're coming back

[00:35:29] the more they come back I think then there's an opportunity to educate and what we've seen

[00:35:34] in our network is is once you can get them asking questions about the programming oh

[00:35:38] notice that was different you know I'm feeling different I've done this is I'm in the six-week

[00:35:43] of a cycle I feel way better I can tell them stronger on getting a little bit deeper and more

[00:35:47] squat you've got them like your job's done you know to a large degree and so for me it's get them

[00:35:54] back get them engaged in exercise and feeling the benefits and enjoying it and you know like Crossfit

[00:35:59] and we do and other models that are really good at building communities get them into the community

[00:36:04] and and make this part of their life because too many people have a gym membership now they go

[00:36:10] once a week that's the average just over one day a week at around the world so as an industry I think

[00:36:14] we're failing let's be brutally honest about that yeah so for me the program is not important

[00:36:20] to the to the consumer it's really important to us but I think if we can engage them and get them

[00:36:24] to fuel the value of the programming that we do once we do that that then leads to a different level

[00:36:32] of experience for one year business but also for the consumer and like any initially I think

[00:36:37] that we should always be trying to raise the bar doesn't matter what it is and the more educated

[00:36:43] consumers out there he's going to lead to better standards in our industry so at some stage we do

[00:36:48] have to educate them but they don't come to BFT because of the programming you know it's it's

[00:36:53] the local gym around the corner at their marketing and it's the community relationships but

[00:36:58] he's what keeps them coming back yeah it is and it's I had make Robertson on the podcast recently is

[00:37:06] really really solid coach great gym great educator he's been doing this for I think 26 years

[00:37:11] something like that you know I asked him like how much of great coaching is the soft skills

[00:37:18] and he's like man I think it's like 60 maybe more percent and I was like I didn't disagree but

[00:37:23] I just to hear him say that number right I was like it's true like the environment that you create

[00:37:27] and it's the old adage of you know people don't care how much you know until they know how much you

[00:37:32] care right and hate to sound cliche but it's it's true you know people need to be an environment

[00:37:36] where they feel support they feel welcome and this is those little things right like just calling

[00:37:41] someone by their name or giving them a pat on the back or hey you know how Susie doing in school

[00:37:46] right like those little things that you remember by your clients they create this environment yeah

[00:37:50] allow us to do the work that we want to do as trainers and coaches we have to create that first

[00:37:55] and then and then get to the space where we start educating about all the beautiful intricacies

[00:37:59] of program design and movement and nutrition and all that so I presume that's something that you

[00:38:05] guys and still as well yeah I agree and I think that it's potentially higher than 60 percent to be

[00:38:11] sure to be honest and we talk a lot about queuing which is the soft skills to a degree

[00:38:18] as trainers we tend to want to be really technical and over just over complicate stuff versus

[00:38:25] super guilty over here yeah yeah yeah we're and yeah we've all done it right and yeah I think the

[00:38:30] longer in the industry you just get better at it and that's that's the evolution of you know come

[00:38:34] becoming or going from a trainer to being a genuine coach and so we try and educate our trainers

[00:38:42] when we on board them around first of all assess risk that's the most important thing you know no one

[00:38:47] should get injured in what is a controlled environment which is the gym you know we're not playing

[00:38:52] in a football where shit happens and you're gonna get injured so first of all let's do the best

[00:38:58] thing to mitigate risks so Eric's on this Eric's doing deadlifts is he in a good position has he got

[00:39:04] good form understand his background and then let him go to a degree if before that's good your

[00:39:12] form's good your loading school your breathing's good all you have to do maybe his walk past and

[00:39:16] give Eric a pat in the back so I'm saying hey kid go man it's awesome that's it and that's that's

[00:39:20] coaching right and that doesn't take much effort but Eric still have a saying yeah they're keeping

[00:39:25] an eye on me they were they're seeing me versus trying to fix sometimes all these subtle nuances

[00:39:33] and intricacies with you know lat engagements and example of your grip and you know just in our

[00:39:39] environment in BFT that we'd often don't have time to do that because it's sort of a faster

[00:39:44] medium group training environment it's super important but is it gonna change the life of that

[00:39:51] member you know in that point in time probably not as opposed to a positive affirmation so we

[00:39:55] talk about you know external and internal and then neutral cues and I think neutral cues are too

[00:40:01] underutilized in our industry what we we use a lot of internal cues which members don't understand

[00:40:08] so you know we should be trying to work a lot more on external cueing but the neutral cues for me

[00:40:14] is a really undervalued and underutilized because we want to over complicate things and get too

[00:40:19] technical and show our members how smart we are as PT's or whatever it's trying to so yeah the

[00:40:24] soft skills are so important and you know it's the it's it's a cliche of less he's more it's just

[00:40:31] the reality sometimes let less less he's more when it comes to coaching and I just think it takes

[00:40:37] time to learn that you know when you're young and you're so full of knowledge and passion and

[00:40:41] enthusiasm and you want to show everyone and give everything to everyone versus just sit back

[00:40:46] sometimes and just let people let them move and when you need to step in step in otherwise

[00:40:51] encourage them and engage them and make them feel special and have fun and you can do that

[00:40:58] that's you're doing a great job you know and you don't have to do be too technical to do that

[00:41:03] yeah I love it and you brought up a distinction that is one of my favorite things actually

[00:41:07] discuss so a trainer versus a coach right I mean I know how I define that I've talked about

[00:41:13] a numerous times on this podcast over the years but what are the significant differences you see

[00:41:19] between a trainer and a coach well this is a good discussion

[00:41:28] well first of all he taught time is critical I don't think you can become a coach we just

[00:41:34] without having a significant amount of time and and a significant amount of hands-on experience

[00:41:39] with athletes whether recreational athletes or professional or or other so that for me is

[00:41:45] critical and what comes with time is the learning that comes through observation so you we talk

[00:41:50] about having a good set of eyes I think coaches have a really good set of eyes they can assess

[00:41:56] that risk and reward they can assess and know it's not perfect but if I if I over complicate

[00:42:02] that sliding perfection is it really going to shift the dial in the performance so it's the ability

[00:42:08] to understand what's important and what's not it's also those soft skills are really critical it's

[00:42:14] being believable you know when your athletes or your clients do they want to get out of bed in the

[00:42:21] morning because they're coming to see you because I know you care they know that they're going to

[00:42:25] get something out you're gonna provide value you're gonna be there with a smiling face

[00:42:31] that's really important you know and it's a tough job because we all have bad days but you know

[00:42:35] what you're gonna leave your shit at the door and put your game face on and bring your A-game

[00:42:42] every single day because that's what people paying you for so I think coaches have those really

[00:42:47] awesome soft skills they know how to dial things up and dial things down sometimes it's performance

[00:42:53] base sometimes it's just a recognition that I can see Eric's having a shit day today and I'd

[00:42:58] and you know what we had this awesome session plan but today's just not the day that that's coaching

[00:43:04] and I think sometimes we just focus too much on the outcome of a performance I've seen these

[00:43:08] with athletes I've seen athletes that aren't prepared to go into battle but we've made them believe

[00:43:13] that they are and they still perform at an exceptionally high level you can't do that consistently

[00:43:20] by the way but you can pull it off you know that we our physical capacity is a are often really

[00:43:26] untapped and so if you can engage this this really powerful muscle up here which a lot of us don't

[00:43:32] understand anywhere near as much as what we should the brain is a really powerful muscle and

[00:43:39] that's those soft skills and I think coaching you learn about encouraging over time because

[00:43:45] you just need to have experiences with different athletes different injuries different personalities

[00:43:52] you know different moods different weather how do people react to different weather things like

[00:43:57] that so for me it's a broad it's a really broad I'll probably give you two broad of an answer but

[00:44:03] that's great the one thing I think it is Eric it's earned I really don't like going to conferences

[00:44:10] and seeing people who are delicious with coach on their back and they're 24.

[00:44:15] He bought the fantastic bottle of it I think you know it's a badge of honor that you need to earn

[00:44:20] yeah yeah you know I love everything you said there and it's such an interesting journey and all

[00:44:26] the people all that I've known I've come through the industry 20 30 years in the industry they have

[00:44:33] such a respect for the profession right you know the Kelly star ads the micropersons the you

[00:44:39] know all these people like really and they do everything they don't do which I've noticed

[00:44:43] can it's like once you get to a certain level of experience and success within the industry as

[00:44:48] the coaching industry they never shit talk anyone else never right it's just it's mutual admiration

[00:44:56] they they made challenge an idea our concept but they don't take down the person or the brand

[00:45:00] individually right and it's so it's more like everything is about how can we make the profession

[00:45:05] better right how can we you know maybe sharpen each other's swords a little bit but it's never

[00:45:11] disrespectful it's always because I think that's the point is like you get to a certain point like

[00:45:15] that person's a coach because they earned it yeah and they have deserved just as much respect as

[00:45:20] I want in return I think that's really kind of that's why I love the coaching I talk about so

[00:45:24] much on this podcast I think the coaching industry and it's so integral you know we can try to

[00:45:28] supplement artificial intelligence for the coaching experience which who knows man may just

[00:45:33] happen you know we may all have our own sports and vigor in our ear you know what this highly

[00:45:37] developed coaching I don't know I'm gonna put it out there it's never gonna happen yeah I don't

[00:45:42] I don't I don't I'm huge on that does never happening yeah I agree but who knows right I'm

[00:45:47] just saying but you know it's something that it's such a it's an armual thing and I would love to

[00:45:52] see coaches make more money it's really kind of it right that would that would be great as we kind

[00:45:57] of wrap this thing up is like I know you're in Vegas you're meeting with the exponential leadership team

[00:46:03] you know I presume there's certain things I mean what can you share about 2024 going in next year

[00:46:07] as far as like what your initiatives are what you're planning where you where you hope to be this time

[00:46:11] next year yeah it's been a really good couple of days with the X-Bot team and you know they you just

[00:46:17] forget how big a company they ought to be honest and the beauty of being here at the conferences

[00:46:22] that they've just announced an 11th brand but there's 10 existing brands that you can learn and share

[00:46:27] their sprax from which is which is awesome but from a BFT perspective they've just presented

[00:46:34] they're we're releasing a new performance app so that's where we do all of our strength testing

[00:46:40] and strength metrics through all of our cube heart rate system and all of our challenges and

[00:46:45] our nutrition platform so that's that's gonna be really exciting that gets released in March next

[00:46:50] year to the network so that that's exciting we've got a little bit of a sneak peak of that

[00:46:54] or we've just had a bit of a sneak peak at the development and on the innovations and

[00:47:01] technology side of things so there's some exciting things coming in the next 12 months

[00:47:05] around how we deliver our programs and the look and feel what that looks like from a digital

[00:47:11] display and memory engagement perspective we're getting better and more sophisticated

[00:47:17] it's something as simple as a higher rate system because we are just getting more data now

[00:47:21] and we're learning more ourselves so we've got some refinements coming that's really helping us

[00:47:25] without without to get better at our training in our programming um we're releasing some new

[00:47:31] education certification so all of the education that we do through our education verdict all

[00:47:36] of certifying all countries around the world so we've actually got um had a had a train like a master

[00:47:43] trainer course coming which is exciting um not quite that coaching pathway that we just spoke

[00:47:52] about but it's getting people on that journey so that that's an exciting project that the team

[00:47:57] have been working on and we're really really keen to get that into people's hands and get feedback

[00:48:01] on that so yeah there's some innovation coming there's more education coming certainly the

[00:48:07] Expo team have said that they're really focused on franchisee support this year they've

[00:48:12] realized that's a big area for them to continue to support the franchisees as the brand grows

[00:48:18] not just with BFT but in other brands as well so they've recognised as a business that they

[00:48:22] need to do that better which is which is fantastic so it's really exciting like it's really exciting I

[00:48:27] think um the industries don't he's extremely resilient around the world uh you know we've come

[00:48:34] out of Covid we've had the you know the Ukraine war on the effects of inflation

[00:48:39] interest rate rises um it's been a tough four years to be to be really honest for our industry

[00:48:46] and very just so good to see how resilient it is and I think it's also been great to see people

[00:48:51] pool together in the industry and actually work collaboratively to to um to survive and to stay

[00:48:57] viable um so that's been that's nice and again it's nice to see the Expo that that's happening

[00:49:02] um in within their 10 brands so it's an exciting time I think um you know hopefully we get a really

[00:49:10] good run at it with with none of these macroeconomic challenges and we are seeing people coming back to

[00:49:17] gyms you know to pre-COVID levels uh people having and changing their spending habits so

[00:49:22] people you know gym memberships are now not really an discretionary spend people saying this is

[00:49:26] important my health is important my lifestyle so our challenge now is to add value so we want to

[00:49:32] bring the education we want to bring the innovation we want to do the engagement but we're going to

[00:49:36] keep providing value and if we do that I think we're we're going to have a really good 2020 24 so

[00:49:42] yeah awesome man well Kim uh last question is uh you know as an industry um you know people

[00:49:48] may want to reach out to you but what do you what do you need help with right now how can we help you

[00:49:53] who I need a lot of help um um yeah to be honest we're we're all we're always looking to be better and

[00:50:04] helping us is uh it can come in a range of ways you know we love talking to other brands businesses

[00:50:10] people individuals and just learning um whether it's sales whether it's program or it's technology

[00:50:15] just what are people doing and what's best practice that they see and and and how can we learn and

[00:50:20] share that because you know the more knowledge you have the the more informed decisions you can make

[00:50:26] and if as I said one of the great things coming out of COVID I think was the industry sort of

[00:50:31] bonding a little bit better and getting more collaborative and I think for me how can

[00:50:35] how can that help me is people reaching out and saying I love what you're doing or I'm interested

[00:50:39] in what you're doing this what we're doing and I'm just sharing talking I love having you know

[00:50:44] the uh the water cooler conversations I think that's where the most value comes from you know

[00:50:48] whether it was a university or at a conference most of the value comes from the water cooler or the

[00:50:52] coffee conversations and um I really enjoy that you know I've learned and enjoyed this conversation

[00:50:59] so for me collaboration people can help by by being collaborative um I love what you said about

[00:51:05] those experienced coaches that I work really hard with our team to say never talk down other

[00:51:10] brands everyone has a place we we have a place we're just different we're just us just be be the

[00:51:17] best of being us um but that doesn't mean we can't learn off other people and share our

[00:51:22] information either so yeah I'd love to collaborate more that'd be really helpful to me and if anyone

[00:51:27] wants to reach out um I'm not massive on social media to be honest so it's probably get me on my

[00:51:32] email address which is camera and a body if you're training.com but yeah I love to I love collaborating

[00:51:37] so that that'd be a huge help awesome well Kim I really enjoy our conversation and obviously

[00:51:42] you put in the time to get to where you are and um you seem to have a nice balance of patience

[00:51:47] and urgency and which is necessary right as a founder you know you gotta take the time to set

[00:51:54] the foundation but then you know what it's time to build you build and yeah I think it's really

[00:51:57] cool lesson so very much thank you so much for joining me and ladies and gentlemen

[00:52:02] Kim Follin. Thanks Eric, appreciate it my gratitude.

[00:52:05] Hey wait don't leave yet this was your host Eric Malzone and I hope you enjoyed this episode

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[00:52:58] so thank you so much this is Eric Malzone and this is the future of finnis have a great day