Brynn Scarborough - 2024 Wellness Technology Trends

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[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Brynn Scarborough, welcome to the Future of Fitness.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pleasure to have you.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Eric.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So happy to be on.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy to finally connect.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to geek out a little bit.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So you are the president and CEO of JK Products and Services, large kind of wellness technology.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: You've been around, the company's been around for a minute and you guys have been doing some stuff now and the market is really starting to come towards you with the technologies and the products that you guys provide.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's no secret to anybody who knows me.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I love like wellness technologies.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I love wearables.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I love all of the things like a little bit of a kind of a private biohacker.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So, and I know you are too.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I really want to hear about your own personal like wellness sanctuary, I think is what you said.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot to talk about today.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the trends in wellness technology are trending up for sure.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And as you were just talking about, it's like, oh, it's kind of overwhelming really with the amount of variety of options that consumers have at all levels from, you know,

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: people are willing to spend a lot of money, people spend very little money or no money.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to get into all that.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's really important for people to pay attention to this stuff because these trends can dictate whether you're a brick and mortar or a practitioner or an executive of a company or investor.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: This is all really important stuff.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Britt, let's start with this.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't mind, just give us some of your background and then we'll take it.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. Absolutely.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you mentioned, I'm the president and CEO of JK Products.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been with the company for 12 years now.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually started as their development director when I came on a while ago, mainly because of an outsider's opinion, outsider's perspective and kind of continue to bring that to the table.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been a health and fitness junkie for more than two decades.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I have I love certifications, right?

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Anything that will give you a participation or certification, I'm there for it.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've been a spin instructor, boot camp instructor, have my 200 hour yoga certification, have tried every workout imaginable.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. It's just it's just a part of a lifestyle of curiosity around this topic, I think.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So definitely a practitioner, but also an investigator on that side as well.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, latest and greatest.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I started my doctorate about a year ago, diving into leadership resilience as well, encompassing these areas of things like mind, body and spirit resilience,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: everything from wellness to community to ceremony, all of those things.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's very well aligned for me and seems to be something rather pervasive, not only in my career, but personal life and academically as well.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah, indeed.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Pervasive. That's a good word.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I like that one.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's start with this.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us about your personal wellness sanctuary.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: What are the things that you use?

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: If you know me, you know, I've been working on this for a little while.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't been quiet about it.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I've kind of built out in my in my garage gym in the back, I've kind of built out my own little oasis.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Not fantastic for my social life, but great for my workouts, because now I don't even see people in workout classes or the gym anymore.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But I am working out on my own schedule, which is taking my workout frequency through the roof.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I I'm a frequent weight trainer as I have aged as a woman into my late 30s.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I realized that I can't just be the cardio queen anymore.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. I have to spend a lot more time weight training and resistance training, building muscle, keeping muscle over time.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Thinking about that health span over time as well.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And I have my own little circuit set up back there.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So I personally am a lover of sauna and cold plunge and then also red light, which is one of our specialties at JK as well.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So working those modalities into my daily life and daily routine is pretty important for me and my mental health and my performance, all the things.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, that's kind of what I do. I love to go to a yoga class every now and then or go to a HIIT class.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, right now I'm on a four day a week cycle for lifting and, you know, recovery now has become just as important as the output.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. That makes me really happy to hear.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to circle back, you know, later in this conversation about how you actually integrate each one of these within like a day, because like timing, frequency, all that stuff is really interesting to me as well.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I want to make sure that we give due time to wellness technology trends.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was reading a recent post of yours on LinkedIn.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I really recommend people go find you and follow.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But let's start with this kind of when you need to talk about a thing, you need to define a thing. Right.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you when you hear wellness technology, what how would you define that, you know, for the sake of a conversation?

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, that's an interesting question because we're throwing a lot at the conversation right now, whether that's a I, whether that's wearables, whether that's integrative health care and medicine or technology and automation.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say where I take up most of my time from a career perspective and well tech is equipment and automation, making those services, automated services accessible through equipment.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think inside of that conversation, you know, it's important to be talking about A.I. as well.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's important to be talking about integration of technologies. Right.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: As we're all fighting for timeshare and wallet share, I think those two things are becoming the true determinants of success in this space because, you know, there's just so much competition for your wallet.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But even more so, there's so much competition for your time and really making those things make sense together.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, for me in the well tech space, it's really about, you know, external technologies.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not necessarily always talking about technologies that learn you as an individual, though, honestly, that's a part of every conversation that we're having.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's like the big ones right now.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: There's there's contrast therapy.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: There's red light therapy.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: What are other some of the big ones that you're seeing?

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And basically, and what I'm just thinking about right now is when I walked the floor of Ursa this year.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: All this technologies are dominating.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, they're never compared to like the major equipment manufacturers at a show like that.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But like it's shocking, like how much it's grown over the last three or four years.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So what are the major categories that you define as wellness technology?

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's definitely contrast.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: There is an interesting thing about cold plunge.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, how do you know if somebody cold plunges because they're going to tell you like in the first five minutes.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And know that we're really annoying like that.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But it has this stickiness to it.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you can come up with a better word than stickiness, I'd love to hear it.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But it has this like loyalty creation factor to it that has made it really interesting and unique.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. These are not this isn't it's hard to even call this stuff technology.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Like these are literally ancient applications of wellness, you know, from hundreds and hundreds of years ago that we are just modernizing from an application perspective.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Hot and cold both.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think when you can do those two things together, it's got a lot of potential.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I think obviously we're seeing a lot of advancements in massage, but not just, you know, whether that's AI massage, whether that's dry water massage, sensory immersion, you know, kind of going beyond sensory deprivation and float tanks, which we realized weren't really scalable.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That was a really hard technology to scale.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you weren't going to put a second one in another room and that that just wasn't something that took off.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But the sense depth piece of it kind of did remain.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And so whether that sensory immersion and, you know, binaural beats and being able to trick the mind into down regulation, those types of things and doing that incorporating massage as well.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously you've seen a ton of red light.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Red light is not new.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really the consumer appetite and willingness to have the conversation around red light that's really come into the mainstream.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And with that kind of comes the next steps after red light, which is infrared and PEMF and other things like that that are just now cusping.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think over the years are going to be next couple of years, especially are going to be just as important as the red light conversation because they're kind of the natural next steps from a visible or non-visible light perspective.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to go through each one of those categorically and kind of discuss a little bit more.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: My favorite things to talk about.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope me too.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there any emerging before we get to that?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there any emerging technologies that you can tease us with anything that's coming out that maybe people haven't heard a lot about yet?

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think when we're talking about cold plunge, for example, everyone's trying to figure out how to do it without getting wet.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not here to judge which product is better than the other.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Go look at the science.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Go look at the Hubermans of the world who, you know, specialize in this stuff.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's definitely a difference between a cryo environment and a cold plunge environment and what it does, you know, for you from a health benefit perspective and from a mental health benefit perspective.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So everybody from an operational perspective and a technology perspective is trying to figure out how to get the benefits of a cold plunge without putting in a wet room and without, you know, dealing with a lot of things that can't be retrofitted in your regular gym space, right?

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're going to build out, replumb, do all of that.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing some interesting entrants come into the space, kind of like these dry floats that are cold.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're quite there yet, but we're on the way and they're creating a lot of interest.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing those at URSA, you're seeing those at iSPA, places like that.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: From a sauna perspective, we're just seeing integration.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've gone from just dry sauna to infrared sauna.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Now we're hitting full spectrum sauna.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think the marketplace really knows yet what full spectrum means.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We're just kind of throwing more technologies at it at the moment, kind of stacking more technologies.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think you will see, you know, if you're in the sauna for 20 minutes, I think you're going to continue to see people try to develop technologies where you're stacking habits while you're in there, whether that's better red light or better light or different types of energies beyond just heat that you can be sitting in at the same time.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, the jury's still out.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We need more information about what full spectrum really does by comparison.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We know the difference between near and far.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't know as much about mid, but still there's a lot to be said in that conversation.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, in those two spaces, I would say that's kind of what's coming, in my opinion, and what's cusping.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It's what I'm looking out for and where I've kind of tried to learn more over the last couple of months as well.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if we could hack a way to give you that blast of happy hormones that you get after a cold plunge without having to, you know, soak yourself in a tub and splash water everywhere,

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people would be happy from an operational perspective.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's interesting.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one of the things I played with at the URSA show was the, like, how do you describe it?

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a blanket of cold water therapy, right?

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So you get in, it puts you, it gives you exactly three minutes or like whatever it was, 38 degrees.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It was really interesting.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the price tag was hefty, though.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like retail at like 40 grand or something like that.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So obviously not, not too many.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's going to be more of a commercial application than anything.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially cold plunges and, you know, cold shock therapies, heat shock.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, sorry.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: All the science behind it, the physiology of why it does.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been a fan of, you know, I don't have a cold plunge, but I do a cold shower or something.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been doing that for like six years and it's amazing.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So a huge fan of everything that it does.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And, but is there any, like, what is the state you think of contrast therapies?

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are we reaching like a point of like, okay, this is about as many people who are going to do it are going to, I've already done it.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And, or is it still growing like commercially?

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it still growing, you know, in the private?

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like where, where is it?

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Where is it at?

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's still got some significant runway in front of it, mainly because sauna culture is not an American thing, right?

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You go to Europe or any other European country, there's this whole culture that's developed around the community of sauna, the experience of sauna.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's a half day affair that you go to with your buddies on the weekend.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And we haven't gotten to that community space yet.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And, I mean, I was just reading some statistics the other day that I think sauna is now up to being 20% or so of sessions booked on ClassPass, which five years ago it wasn't even on ClassPass.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge, don't quote me directly on that.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You can find it on Google because it was Forbes or something like that.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Might have even been fit inside.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's, it's had a massive uptick.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But what I think is really going to take sauna to the next level or revolutionize sauna is building the community aspect around it.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's some really forward-thinking businesses on the coast that are addressing this topic, right?

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauna and recovery is not just about sitting by yourself and booking a sauna session.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about going into this community space and kind of creating like, you know, this experience around it.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's got a lot of runway from that perspective.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's still a lot of really creative business models that can be fashioned around not just the experience of contrast, but the experience of community.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's like-minded people in that space.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's people who are investing in their health and wellness.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, everybody's trying to figure out a way to rebuild community post-COVID.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're not there yet.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So you may not continue to see it, you know, the way it looks today.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's got a lot of runway to evolve.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Because at the end of the day, there's a reason that cultures have developed around this, around the world for hundreds of years.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's because it truly does improve your quality of life.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So to me, it's not a trend, right?

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a trend that more recently became popular in the U.S.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting in how far behind we are in the U.S. in kind of sauna culture.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I have one of my neighbors has a Finnish background.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: He built his own sauna.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So he'll invite us over every once in a while.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a thing.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a thing.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you go over, you plan to spend two, three hours.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: There's snacks.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have a couple of beers.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're just going to...

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just what you do.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You hang out and talk and, you know, do multiple sessions.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's awesome.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just what you do.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So there, or, you know, even get the remedy places or incorporating that.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, there's a lot of room to grow.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people are still very, I'll say naive to sauna and how good it is.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's interesting to hear.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and sauna is so well proven scientifically, probably from a scientific perspective,

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: the most well proven modality on the list of all the things we're talking about.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And Americans have this huge appetite and curiosity to try new technologies.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, this is not new.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: This has been around forever.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, and what I'm always preaching about these technologies is lifestyle integration.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: If you've got to go out of your way, out of your, you know, path, whatever, to do an appointment for just one thing,

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's going to stick from a lifestyle perspective.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The reason these things have hung around for thousands of years and communities have developed around them

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is because their lifestyle develops around this community of recovery and well-being and all of the things.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the piece that we've really got to consider.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's why gyms, honestly, are perfectly positioned to really build out these wellness and recovery spaces

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's just an integration that makes sense.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're fighting for the time of their clients at the end of the day.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think it's definitely something to consider when we're thinking about a business model perspective.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, friends.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Eric Malzone here.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had the honor of interviewing over 750 professionals across the fitness, health, and wellness industries.

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[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: That's podcastcollective.io.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about red light.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Red light therapies and all the stuff that you mentioned earlier about all the variations.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: They use it a lot for injury recovery, even gut issues.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Give us some insights on the history of red light therapies, specifically to our market, and how it's starting to grow.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, it seems to have a lot of early traction in aesthetics, but there's so much more.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's your take on red light?

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: What can you tell us about it?

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, red light is probably one of my top two favorite technology applications, other than my Garmin, that I absolutely can't live without, right?

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, choose two.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything else you've got to let go of, I was thinking it's going to be my Garmin and red light.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Mainly because, you know, at the end of the day, and I'll let the doctor speak to the in-depth science of red light, but red light, at the end of the day, increases ATP, right?

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It fuels the cell more efficiently and creates better cellular turnover and cell energy.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the output of that, the end effects of that are numerous, especially if you're using high-quality red light.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It also sits adjacent on the visible light spectrum.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You have sunlight, and then you go directly into red light, then you go into infrared on the visible light spectrum.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So you do get some of the benefits of sun from red light, meaning the neurological benefits that might help you with SAD, seasonal affective disorder, things like that.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So you are right.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It can help with those things.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But what I really notice, you know, from a skincare perspective, the skin is kind of slow to respond, right?

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the biggest organ in the body, but at the end of the day, it takes a little while to respond.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes you don't get that immediate gratification from a skincare perspective because you need 60 to 90 days, you know, using high-quality red light for your skin to respond to it.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_00]: No different than skincare, right?

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: If your esthetician sends you home with new products, she's going to have you come back in 90 days, no less, because you're not going to see an effect before then.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But what I really notice, you know, when working hard in the gym, and believe it or not, as I'm getting older, staving off soreness and injury and all of those things that might take me down for tomorrow's workout, red light really, really helps with all of that.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're finally seeing some technologies come to market.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were one of the first companies that came out with a total body red light unit almost 15 years ago.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: No one was ready for the conversation.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody knew how to talk about it.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And now we can't get people to stop talking about it, right?

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We really only have to put a good product on the market because people understand the rest.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And so now with the evolution of LED and being able to add near-infrared to that, it's truly been a fascinating next step, right?

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The combination of near-infrared and red light together really kind of supercharged the experience.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: There's some awesome research out there about what near-infrared does for mental health and for energy and those types of things.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So it just enhances what red light already does.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you'll see the most immediate effect on like acute muscle soreness, workout recovery, joint soreness.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're a runner or doing, you know, some sort of really high intensity situation, you'll see immediate results.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're in good red light, you'll see immediate results from that perspective.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then over time, I've been realizing as I've been using our laydown unit, which is a fairly new unit, that the combination of the infrared, I get almost the same kind of mood boost and high that I get from a cold plunge, but it's more sustained.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And the focus is better.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It absolutely improves focus.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I usually always try to red light in the morning, not in the late afternoon just because it energizes you, right?

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like it's going to really disrupt sleep, but obviously better if I want that energy in the morning.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I notice my focus is better.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I notice my mood is better.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Energy levels are better.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't point to anything else but the inclusion of that on a regular basis.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And I can certainly tell the difference the days I use it versus the days I don't.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of different ways.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's the face masks, there's the panels, you know, I mean, two ways.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Like optimally, right, what's the best way to get red light?

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And then for people like realistically, for most consumers out there, you know, what do you think are some of the best options to do red light?

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of options out there.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The space has gotten crowded.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, the space is not crowded with quality products.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a couple of things that you want to consider.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to consider actual light output.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So making sure that you are in that true red light nanometer range where you should be.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Any company that's creating legitimate devices should be publishing their measurements, right, and just being very transparent about those things.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is duration, efficacy, and proximity.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So proximity to the body, making sure that there is nothing between you and that high quality red light that's going to block light transmission.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like sometimes, and I've had every mask and I've had every one.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got them all upstairs.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I am a participator in the sport.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Like some you'll notice, right, and I won't mention any brand specifically, have like really sick, sick plastic between you and the LEDs.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's not going to work.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to take down the light transmission of the LEDs significantly from an efficacy perspective.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you do have something between you and the LEDs, you want verified measurements on the body level, which again, you know, legit manufacturers should be giving you.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You also want efficacy from a time perspective.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So about 20 minutes, at least three times a week.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, obviously best case scenario is total body exposure, making sure that, you know, vital organs are exposed as well.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't mean that, you know, a high quality facial panel isn't going to give you some neurological benefits of, you know, helping improve sad, helping improve focus, those types of things.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Where it gets a little fringy for me is when we're talking about kind of like, you know, red light in, I'll even say saunas or things like that, where you're far, far away from the light.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you've got one little, little color panel on the ceiling.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You're far away from that.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You might have some visual effects just from a phototherapy perspective or color therapy perspective.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But biologically, your body really can't receive any of that.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Anything that you're feeling in that environment is going to be coming from infrared, not from red light.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So just being discerning, right?

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Asking for, asking for measurements, learn, you know, there's so much good information out there about red light and just the light ranges and what they do.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, learn what those are and make sure that you're getting the output that you expect.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, I think for most people, like, and kind of the point of this whole conversation is like, it's just overwhelming.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, if I want to have something at home, like, it's interesting to hear you say like, okay, the things that are, you know, non-negotiable for you are your garment, right?

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And your red light there.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I presume exercise and nutrition are obviously the foundational piece.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I can do that without technology, but generally without technology.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess the point for most people is like, well, gosh, you know, do I have the room or the budget to do these kinds of things in my home?

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: If I want a full body, I presume a full body is like a lay down, you know, rather space consuming unit.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there things that now as a, you know, from a consumer point of view that you can start to do with like, you know, smaller footprint?

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what would you recommend for most consumers as far as a product to get the most, most benefit from the least amount of space consumption and monetary investment?

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say, you know, from a consumer perspective, I would say a couple of things.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_00]: There are high quality panels out there.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't really speak to the total body panels, but for example, we also partner with Saluma and make a lounge that has panels on it.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Those panels can be bought individually for home use.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I, I had one started using it seven years ago, right?

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Those are, those are really high quality output home devices as well.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's hard, it's hard to compare what you're going to get from a facial device versus total body exposure, right?

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, do you want the gut brain exposed or the mind brain exposed?

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You can, you can do that with a panel too.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think from a business perspective, it's really focusing on these things that are unique and high quality technologies that people are going to come to you for.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we see a lot of people, let's say in the gym space, they're like, I'm just going to put a panel up on the wall.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I get that you're on board with the technology, but at the end of the day, people are going to know the difference.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to know when they walk away and they're like, I don't, I don't think anything happened in there versus the true difference between high quality and red light and near infrared exposure.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You will know the difference.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody's going to get to use both and know what both feel like.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you ever do get to use high quality red light, you will absolutely know the difference.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So from a home perspective, I think it's, it's more, you know, neurological as well, but for the biological effects, it's kind of really seeking out, you know, the higher quality equipment and things like that.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And it will become more pervasive over time as more people become educated about it as well.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And it comes down to consumer demand.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Super interesting.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And the one that I don't know a whole lot about, I've done it and I'm curious the state of it, but you'd mentioned earlier with sensory deprivation, like that seems to be evolving.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause you know, not everybody can, or most places don't want to put a huge like salt tank, right.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: With the full deprivation, which is really cool, by the way, a handful of times.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's super interesting.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like I come out of it like having, you know, the immediate benefit of, you know, a cold plunge, which is undeniable.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you are physiologically different three minutes later.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe give us some, an update, like how is the technology and science and product lines of deprivation, sensory deprivation come along?

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I kind of look at that channel or that bucket of products from a sensory deprivation perspective or sensory immersion.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They, sometimes they do the same thing.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the goal of that product bucket?

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's to downregulate the central nervous system.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, red light doesn't necessarily downregulate.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It will help you relax.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time I fall asleep in a session.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauna is kind of an upregulator at the end of the day.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Cold plunge is definitely an upregulator.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But what we know post-COVID is that everyone is looking to the fitness and wellness industries to say, how do I bring this back to baseline?

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is stressed out.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is, you know, their baseline stress is much higher than it was five years ago.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We know that.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we as an industry have been completely unprepared to answer this question, right?

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been in the no pain, no gain business for so long that now when people are coming to us saying, I want to recover, I want balance, I want, you know.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So to downregulate in this space, we're offering them a foam roller and a massage gun.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is not what people are looking for at the end of the day.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So this whole area of products, and I include, you know, some areas of massage in this as well, where when you can integrate services, whether it's sensory deprivation or it's sensory immersion, right?

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: If I, I'll use our well system for an example.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: The base service is a massage.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But once we add, you know, relaxation soundtracks, aromatherapy and light therapy, you've got about two, three minutes that your brain can remember whatever it was that you came in stressed out about.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're kind of hitting all senses with a relaxation and downregulation opportunity.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: People routinely fall asleep within three to four minutes and come out of it kind of like, oh, wow.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's probably similar to what you get from a sense step perspective.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You're not coming out of there like, yes, let's conquer the world.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of come out of it like your brain's had a shower and you just feel, you know, a little blank, which is great.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We're all looking for that kind of headspace where things are not chirping so often and maybe there's some creativity or some rest in there.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So that product category for me is developing, but I think it's the furthest behind from a conversation perspective, honestly, in health and wellness.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I think in the spa environment, they're really catching up to how they can integrate technologies to help downregulate more quickly where you don't need a therapist and you don't need a technician and you can kind of absolve yourself of some op-ex.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But fitness and wellness, especially traditional fitness, has been way behind that conversation.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where we've really got to catch up, in my opinion.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, awesome.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Give us some insights, if you can, into the commercial landscape of these technologies.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I know you do a lot of that work.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess one of the big questions that I've had reoccurring on this show and in my mind is like, I'm seeing, you see all these little boutiques popping up that are very specific to wellness, recovery, sauna type things.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you're seeing the health clubs that are now starting to adopt.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's a market for both.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not fully convinced yet.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we'll see.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But what are you seeing as a major trend from the commercial side?

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Like who do you think is gaining traction there?

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I feel like once the health clubs fully adopt and they start incorporating these things, it's going to be a hard thing to compete with.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, give us the state of it.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And then what are your opinion?

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think this is going to shake out over the next five years?

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, interestingly enough, there was no brick and mortar wellness industry five years ago.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: We're still trying to figure out what to call it and how to classify it because these businesses didn't exist in this way.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's brand new.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're going to see a ton of attrition.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I see it kind of in three major channels.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I see HVLP.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I see boutique.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I see, you know, brick and mortar wellness, like the restorers and the things like that.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So everybody's looking at HVLP saying this is the natural place for recovery to take place.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got the square footage.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You've probably already got some sort of recovery space built out.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just either not being well utilized or it hasn't really been strategically put together.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And that, I believe, is where the conversation is going for HVLP over the next few years is how do you really, you know, because they're fighting for the time.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're HVLP, you may not be fighting for the wallet share, but you're fighting for those appointments where someone's going across the street to do cryo or sauna or whatever and not coming into your four walls anymore because all you've got is workout.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Or what you have from a recovery perspective isn't high quality enough or isn't interesting enough, you know, to command that appointment time.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So it really does put you ahead of the pack if you're doing it well, in my opinion.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And for HVLP, those things need to be low OPEX investments.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They need to be amenities that stack well together, that customers can move from one amenity to the other on generally on their own and can be pretty self-explanatory.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, even some of the things that, you know, you see in these HVLP places, I'm thinking, you know, they're cool, but nobody's using it because either they haven't been introduced to it or it doesn't make enough sense for them to go from service to service.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So in that lane, I think that's what's most important in boutique.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We all know that boutique classes and I'm a boutique class girly.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I love going to different types of classes, but there's a loyalty issue and there's a revenue issue when it comes to how do you make money when a class isn't actively running?

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Because the square footage is not making money.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The only time they're making money is 45 minutes at a time, you know, when somebody's actually in class.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's rare unless you're in a major metropolis that you can stack classes from 6 a.m. to 8 p.m. every day and capitalize on your revenue opportunity.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's thinking about really smart, high quality amenities that can be brought into that space that is an add-on and that can help you generate revenue between class times.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think boutique fitness, honestly, is way behind on this conversation, right?

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But now that they're realizing that they've got so much competition, you know, people are sampling, which is awesome because the appetite for wellness and fitness is way up.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: The loyalty is down.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, you're carrying these various different services that let you sample from classes all over town, you know, but the one that gives you sauna and cold plunge on top of it or the one that gives you good recovery benefits on top of it is the one that you might actually sign up to and become a member.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And stay loyal to.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So for boutique, I think it's that.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, for spa and wellness, it's really putting together services that make sense and are strategic.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we are seeing a mixture of medical aesthetics and wellness technologies and biohacking and nutrition and holistic medicine all trying to come together in the same four walls.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, that's a lot.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Think about the front desk person that has to introduce all of those services and the level of expertise that one person has to have to make it make sense.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to see a better strategy come out of that space over time and a better kind of a stacking amenity perspective that helps that make sense.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we come out of the tanning salon space.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So we know how to run businesses, 30-room businesses with two or three employees pretty successfully.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the day, that's what a lot of these brick-and-mortar wellness locations are trying to do.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to run and maximize their room-by-room capacity without having to have an employee in every room.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to be a learning process over time.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, that may be more detailed than what you were after, but I really do think it's kind of lane-specific.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: No, that was awesome.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That was a great viewpoint and insights into what's going on.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I did a tour of Pod Studio when I was in L.A. a few months ago.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And a beautiful place.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, kudos to that whole team.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And the same thing, it really looked like they're trying to, like, how do we do this with two employees at once, right?

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many different operational aspects and the cleanliness of everything needs to be up to date.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was beautiful.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I could hang out there for days.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But the question to me is, even someone who's super into, you know, health and wellness, it's like, how many memberships do I want to have, right?

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the key thing is, like, at what point?

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a certain percentage of consumers out there who will pay for both.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Undoubtedly.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's enough.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the argument is, like, that enough to sustain all these different modalities.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Even one here locally is a boutique.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like a high-intensity boutique.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And they just opened their wellness studio that has, you know, it's basically contrast therapy and red light therapies.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to test it out.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like $20, $25 a visit that you can go in.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But then, of course, the big guy across the street, our major one, which has, like, 10,000 members, they're going to be expanding that soon.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So who's going to win that?

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we'll just kind of wait and see.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But I have my hunches.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, think about how much the science has changed in the traditional workout space just since COVID, right?

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We were all – HIIT was the way to go five years ago.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Now we've moved on from HIIT.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We're back to weight training.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We're kind of, like, back to the basics in a lot of ways, which has been a really interesting evolution to watch over the last few years.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was there for the whole ride, right?

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll continue to be.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll try it all.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, it's interesting.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, now it seems like – I like to say recovery is the new retention in a big box.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's recovery and free weights is the new retention in a big box because you've got to give people something that they can't get somewhere else.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And the services have to be good enough that it's not easy to replicate at home.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're not going to have the major lift stations and all the dumbbells and all the heavy weights that I don't mess with.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not putting all that stuff in at home.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: People don't have room for it.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not realistic.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's interesting.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting, you know, that sometimes it's back to the basics.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And other times it's, you know, integration of higher level technologies.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're doing both right now at the end of the day.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a kind of off topic but interesting as well.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a conversation with Jim Donnelly from the original guy from Restore.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's starting his new thing, which we're going to have on the podcast soon enough to get a human on.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's all very high-end longevity.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're talking like, you know, all of the cool science, right?

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Hormone replacement therapies, optimization to stem cell injections to all of that.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And like, to me, that's going to be the separator of everything.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's something people will pay for and a health club and other stuff.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be interesting to see how all that, it's super exciting time.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and you know, Lifetime and Equinox are testing this theory of the holistic medicine, Moira and others.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, that's definitely on the super high-end scale.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, one thing that I think has always been so interesting about Equinox and others is the community that they create around their gym spaces, right?

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And Equinox is not sustainable in every market for sure.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, right, people who are loyal to Equinox, they go spend half a day there, just like sauna culture, right?

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Just like you would do for a full day in the sauna in another country.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to a class, then they're in the smoothie bar, then they're going to take a call, they're going to get ready there, right?

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a half a day ordeal.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's interesting, you know, it's not necessarily all the same amenities or offerings, but that's interesting from a business model perspective, right?

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: How many times do I have to change clothes while I'm here?

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Or how many times do I have to reset to be able to gain the value that you're offering me from services?

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you got to make it easy for me.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially for all the people who are working remotely, like, give me a quiet space to take a call so that I can take this call between my workout and my recovery and I can stay and do that, right?

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: That's just where we're at as a workforce right now.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, it's I think it's thinking out of the box a lot, too, which the fitness space is really trying.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But this wellness brick and mortar space is challenging traditional fitness to think beyond the borders of kind of their own imagination.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, awesome.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Bryn, give us some insights into GK's company.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what do you guys give us the broad range of what you guys are doing, who you work with?

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious about what the top sellers are right now in your product lines.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, give us inputs from what you do.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So we, you were right, we have been around for over 30 years here in the U.S.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got a distribution base in Arkansas.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We are in warehouses in New York and also California.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We're about 60-40 remote.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_00]: 40% of us are spread out all over the country, myself included.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we've got, you know, the home team that's running distribution and ops there in Arkansas.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have really, in the last three or four years, transitioned heavily into this wellness technology space.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, being in UV tanning for so long, good, bad, or indifferent, makes us experts in light application.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And we really know how to effectively apply light to humans and to do that in a way that we've, you know, been at the forefront of innovation for decades.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Really not only improving the efficacy, but also the efficiency of various different types of light spectrums.

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really where we're at.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And over the last few years, we've really expanded our wellness and technology portfolio, doing that with the well system.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So dry water massage, but also sensory immersion as well.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's definitely a top seller for us, working with some really awesome players, major players in the massage space that I'd love to tell you about in a few months as well.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, in the fitness space, we're kind of in all the major, all the major big boxes, right?

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Whether that's Planet Fitness, Workout Anytime, Retro Fitness, those guys all across the country.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We're really good at supporting businesses who are ready to scale, who have multiple locations.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We are well equipped to do that.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And then honestly, we just came out with this red light lay down unit, the Revive Pro IR, in December.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And it is taking off with a vengeance.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_00]: The conversation is primed and ready.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: People are ready to talk about it.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're ready to kind of start understanding.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, those are spaces that we're really moving, you know, fast and furiously into.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I promised at the beginning of this interview, we'd circle back to this.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But your wellness routine, run us through like an average day or week or whatever inadequate unit of time would be to kind of cover the fundamentals of what you do.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, tell us about Brin's.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: In a perfect world.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm like you, I travel a lot.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of weeks that don't look like the perfect world.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But in a perfect world, I am lifting four days a week, push, pull, legs, and then, you know, glutes and whatever one day.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I can say what I actually call it here on this podcast.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I try to do, you know, one day of kind of full recovery and then one day of truly high intensity anaerobic cardio.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Outlive for making me feel like I wasn't doing enough of that.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, I need to be pushing harder on that treadmill.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what the workout regime looks like or regimen.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I need to mix up my cardio, everything from assault bike to treadmill to berg to rower.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I get bored quickly.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to move that around, move body parts around.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I try to alternate days when it comes to recovery.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So meaning do red light one day and then sauna cold plunge on alternate days.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Sauna cold plunge is easier to do at various different times of the day, in my opinion.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I usually try to red light in the morning.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_00]: All of those things can be done together.

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It just comes down to time at the end of the day, right?

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: If I could spend half my day recovering and in my lair, I would, but that's not really realistic.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I try to be in the red light at least three times a week, usually in the morning before breakfast, like right after I've had my coffee.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And then try to be in sauna cold plunge at least two to three times a week.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm doing that in the evening, which I usually am, I'm going to end on hot.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to start in hot, cold plunge and end on hot from a sleep perspective.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm doing cold plunge before two o'clock in the afternoon, I'm going to end on cold.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a perfect week, right?

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what things look like when everything's running the way it should.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm always looking for adaptations while traveling and whatnot to make those things happen.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's where I'm at at the moment.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And more complexity than that, I can't really manage.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm lucky to be able to get to do all that I do.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those are solid fundamentals.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that's awesome.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Last question I always ask, Bryn, is as an industry, what can we help you with?

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_01]: What would you like to hear from people about when they listen to this?

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And then how would you want them to get in touch with you?

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say, honestly, just getting the word out.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00]: People have known us as Ergoline or as our tanning brands for a long time.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're getting to know us all over again for our wellness technologies and our red light

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_00]: therapies and dry water massage and even new stuff coming out in the next couple of years.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of a new introduction to a lot of conversations and a lot of people, you

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: know?

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, that's really our trajectory at this point is reinvigorating the conversation

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: or having conversations for the first time with operators, you know, now that we're in

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: so much more of a diversified space.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what our priorities are.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_00]: People can always get in touch with us through our website at jkproducts.us.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see Wellness JK there.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see Ergoline.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see all of the support departments that we have, those types of things.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's where you'll continue to see us, you know, moving forward from an industry

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: perspective is, you know, showing you how you can stack these things together in a way

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_00]: that makes sense.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's not 100% hands-off, but on mostly a hands-off situation with low operating

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_00]: costs.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Then, you know, a lot of the stuff really tends to pay for itself rather quickly once you,

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: once you get it running, which is exciting, right?

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's not ROI that takes five, six, seven years.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually it's a year or less if you've got your memberships organized correctly.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, an interesting time for us, but, but that's what we're working on.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That's where you can find us.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the space that we're in.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Bryn, this has been a lot of fun.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is type of stuff I think you and I could probably talk about for, for hours

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_01]: upon hours.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We really didn't even get too granular on some of these things, but super interesting.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Really appreciate you coming on.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm, I'm happy for you guys that you really found a sweet spot in the market and

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_01]: seems to be going really well.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for coming on ladies and gentlemen, Bryn Scarborough.

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, wait, don't leave yet.

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Fitness.

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[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it.

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[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Eric Malzone and this is the Future of Fitness.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Have a great day.