Bryan O'Rourke - A Realist's Take On The Future of Fitness

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[00:02:06] All right we are live. Mr. Brian or Roar, welcome to the future of fitness.

[00:02:10] I am Eric. Thanks for having me on. It's good to see you.

[00:02:12] Yeah, this is an absolute pleasure. I can't believe it's taken me six plus years to get you on the show.

[00:02:18] You are seemingly omnipresent throughout the industry. There's Joe coming with you.

[00:02:26] I think there's three of you. I always see your name involved in something.

[00:02:29] You're speaking in some event. You have your podcast. Now the CEO of Core Health and Fitness.

[00:02:35] It's going to be a lot of fun talking to you. There's going to be some really interesting stuff

[00:02:42] that we're going to get into. I was originally going to ask you about your backstory and then

[00:02:45] you started telling me about your backstory. I'm like, there's so much to it. I'm just going to let

[00:02:49] people read your website, which is www.Brianon.co.org.com. Then we're going to get into maybe a better

[00:02:58] use of your time on my podcast here. You are a self-described fundamentalist. I love that.

[00:03:05] We talked about you've seen some things. You've worked in a number of different industries,

[00:03:10] skilled, great franchises and brands. Outside the industry, I think kind of

[00:03:16] expose yourself to fitness. It's really become ingrained in your portfolio of businesses because

[00:03:24] you say you have 14 in your CEO of Core Health and Fitness. It's wild. It's wild.

[00:03:29] Anyway, let me start with this. When you say that you are a fundamentalist front

[00:03:34] within the industry, describe what that means. To me, that's a good question. I guess

[00:03:41] that's a term I pulled out of my back end when we were talking. I guess what that means is that

[00:03:47] I'm a believer in fundamental principles and I'm a believer in longbowl. I'm not a believer

[00:03:52] in shortcuts. I'm a believer in fundamental truth. Charlie Munger just passed. God bless him and

[00:04:02] I just did a post on LinkedIn because he was great at fundamental thinking. Some of the things

[00:04:08] he would say, people would laugh because there was a lot of granules of timeless truth in his

[00:04:15] wisdom. As you get a little older, I think you get less influenced by the latest shiny thing

[00:04:22] and you get more understanding about certain fundamental things that you need to pay attention

[00:04:27] to, to really understand the world around you. A lot of people can get distracted by a near-term

[00:04:34] events and think they represent things that might be more permanent than they actually are

[00:04:40] or they might be blown out of proportion. The AI thing going on right now, which I'm a big

[00:04:46] believer. I'm an early adopter of these technologies. A lot of that was going on back in the 80s

[00:04:51] at one time. I remember there were software and people were showing me things. You kind of start

[00:05:00] taking a perspective that's a little more long view as you age. That's a long way of defining

[00:05:09] the term fundamentalist. It makes a lot of sense to me because the longer you're in,

[00:05:16] just the longer on this planet, the more time you spend on this planet, the more revolutions you do

[00:05:22] you start to see the trends over time. If you just got into the fitness industry in 2019,

[00:05:28] you would think this is the most dynamic, explosive yet. Just incredibly exciting and really

[00:05:37] dynamic. But if you get in there for prior, I got into the industry around, oh wait, so

[00:05:44] I saw some just a period of slow growth over that period of time then everything just went wild.

[00:05:51] That perspective makes a lot of sense. Gosh, let's just talk about the last four years,

[00:05:56] in 19 to 23. Give us your insights on it. It's been wild, man.

[00:06:01] Yeah, it has been. Many things going on. I could opon on this for a long time. But

[00:06:10] obviously one thing, not maybe as dynamic but budget-mom, Brooks and Mortis face, which is a low price,

[00:06:19] low operation delivery system, which is really and for the most part is taking people's money

[00:06:25] and hoping they don't show up. At the same time, you've got technology obviously becoming a bigger

[00:06:32] part of the conversation with the COVID dynamic mixed in where companies went through a huge surge

[00:06:41] of valuation growth that didn't end up sticking. You have companies like Nautilus that's now

[00:06:48] renamed Bowflex. They're barely hanging on. Everyone knows the Peloton story. Let alone the many

[00:06:55] dozens of startups that were coming at direct to consumer delivery systems that are all gone and

[00:07:03] many of them come. What's happened with Tonal, Lulu Lemons deal with Merck, we could go on and on.

[00:07:11] Then you have the advent of wearable devices that are getting more intelligent.

[00:07:17] These things that I have in my ears, app deployments and AI and the new concepts of personalization

[00:07:27] of AI. There's just so much we could go on and on about it. The boutique models, the streaming

[00:07:37] models, content, it's just a plethora of things in the last five years.

[00:07:43] Do you feel maybe putting a specific time stamp on this? Let's say 1995.

[00:07:51] When you look back to that period of time, what was it then compared to now? What are the

[00:07:57] significant differences that you see in your experience? Yeah, well, so I got involved in health

[00:08:02] clubs. When I was working with Smithy King, we were putting Kiosk in 24 hour back in the Houston

[00:08:11] market. I got exposed to it originally then and with the guy I worked for before Al Copeland,

[00:08:19] God Russ his soul. Papa's he was very having an indefinite business. As a consumer,

[00:08:23] I was exposed to it of course. Then working with the Franco's in 1997-98 in that range,

[00:08:32] it was far more mom and pop oriented with a few exceptions, but it was far more mom and pop.

[00:08:39] Another dynamic that's really is on an inflation adjusted basis, average membership dues have been

[00:08:45] in free fall since the early 80s. The price of a Honda back then in 84 or 85 was about 4,500 bucks.

[00:08:55] The price of an average membership was about 38-40 dollars. That's not changed much.

[00:09:02] You can see that there was no pricing power. You see the emergence of

[00:09:08] franchise or corporately owned low price models which basically took the dynamics of

[00:09:14] getting people's money and not having many people show up. Without much pricing power,

[00:09:19] the answer to Ganymarket Share was to drop price, car buy costs, and build a marketing machine

[00:09:26] that could get you an average of 8 to 9,000 members with maybe 2-3% showing up on a regular basis.

[00:09:33] You made a lot of money doing that. Mike Rondall, I had the pleasure of spending time with him

[00:09:39] years ago and watching all that unfold with Michael Scott's gutter and all this kind of thing.

[00:09:44] A lot of economic dynamics also in that you look at 95, the internet was just starting to reach

[00:09:50] customers. That's next skate back then. We didn't have the technology we do today.

[00:09:59] What people were able to do with these devices, this, the ability to have apps and free apps

[00:10:10] that do so many things. There was nothing like anything like that at the time.

[00:10:15] So consumer experience was massively different. Then we can get into modalities of training,

[00:10:25] of course, and how that's going through trends, the re-emergence of strength back then it was

[00:10:30] farming. The O-oriented generally, the idea of women weight training was not nearly as widely

[00:10:36] accepted. It's funny as well, you're talking about 95. I've spoken about this quite a bit

[00:10:43] that one of the greatest contributors to the growth of the bricks and mortar and fitness space in

[00:10:49] general was the invention of the birth control pill in the 60s. What that led to is the two

[00:10:56] earner household because women then started going to college. Back then in the 60s, that was in

[00:11:03] the case. You started having women, putting off having children or if they did, they had fewer of

[00:11:08] them. Divorce has started rising in the 70s and so women really became a big driver of

[00:11:16] the growth of the industry space in fitness because they had more choice in their life

[00:11:21] and what they could do. They weren't as solely driven to having kids. That started changing

[00:11:28] dynamics in the industry space which is why Ersa was started in 1983. That's when a lot of

[00:11:36] things started bubbling up there and it continues to 95. I would say that and then on, but I think

[00:11:41] corporate corporate is a big deal franchising as a growth model which wasn't really as big of a

[00:11:48] deal back in 95. You had a few players but not like now. You had a pretty narrow set of business

[00:11:54] models compared to what you had today. A much broader set of business models and many more

[00:11:59] channels of distribution of fitness services because of tech and innovation in the space. Of course,

[00:12:06] you know the numbers, the industry has grown quite a bit. The UK having over 20% adoption,

[00:12:15] membership for facilities, you have 50 million users of NUME as an app. You have 100 million,

[00:12:23] more than 100 million users of Apple Watch and their health ecosystem. You're dealing with

[00:12:30] in our estimations through fitness industry technology council, there are over 1.5 million

[00:12:36] users of some type of fitness or health tracking device in the world today. So it's that significant

[00:12:44] in comparison to what's going on in 95. Well, you know, the dual income household

[00:12:51] women entering the workplace is an interesting thing. I came here if I read it or was in a

[00:12:55] documentary, but it's also how the modern food industry got a foothold, right? It was basically

[00:13:01] as simple as well who's going to cook dinner. The industry is like, hey, we can sneak in here with

[00:13:05] easy meals, microwave meals, right? Of embanked pizzas, stuff like that and that's really kind of how

[00:13:11] it got a foothold, right? Because no one want to work and come home and cook dinner and cook all

[00:13:16] the meals. So it's really interesting how that fundamentally changed so many different industries

[00:13:21] and allowed these, you know, gateways for people to get into people's households and lives and

[00:13:26] look where we are now, right? It's enormous trend. It is. You know, let's focus on the present

[00:13:33] for a second. You are now the CEO of Core Health and Fitness, right? When I saw that news, my first

[00:13:39] reaction was, and this is actually the first time, well, second time you and I talked, I think,

[00:13:42] in passing at one point. But I was like, this guy is really busy and I know we don't use that

[00:13:50] term busy full and plates like the term. Yeah, right. Yeah, and discuss that plates full productive.

[00:13:57] Thank you. Yes. And now you're taking on a chief executive role officer, right? And you mentioned

[00:14:03] 14 companies that you hold on a part of. So what drove you? What was so, you know, attractive about

[00:14:11] this role of Core Health and Fitness that you decided to jump on as a CEO operator?

[00:14:16] That's a multifaceted question. So number one is I've advised the founder of the company, Mr.

[00:14:22] Bruno and his family on their business holdings for a very long time. I've known him for about 15

[00:14:29] years. And so I actually sat on the board of the company for a stretch and was a principal architect

[00:14:39] behind the transaction that brought gain line capital partners into the company about four years

[00:14:46] ago. So, you know, so I knew all the parties well. I was a part of recruiting the chief financial

[00:14:56] officer and who now is also another guy who's ahead of global sales for the business. I know

[00:15:05] a number of players in the company and you know, the company has done a number of acquisitions. So

[00:15:11] when I was involved in archetyping those acquisitions as well. So at some point Mr. Bruno came to me

[00:15:18] and asked me to step in the role. And the reason why is of course I was very comfortable knowing all

[00:15:25] the players. I had reached a point in my career where my other business interests I have partners

[00:15:31] that are quite adept at running day to day. And so I think it's just a unique opportunity.

[00:15:38] 1700 employees almost a quarter of a billion a year in revenue. You know when you think about

[00:15:45] how you can make an impact this was a platform where I thought I could really take all of my time

[00:15:52] learning experiences and help the people here make a bigger dent in the industry space. And so

[00:16:01] that's what made me really pay attention when Mr. Bruno brought up the opportunity for me to consider

[00:16:08] it. And we took some time working through details and he's been very gracious. And that's a long

[00:16:14] answer. I hope that makes sense, but that's why. Hey friends, Eric Malzone here.

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[00:17:47] What specifically when change happens or someone is brought in at the CEO level,

[00:17:56] that generally means change. Some change is desired. If you could with core health and fitness,

[00:18:03] what are some of the major initiatives that you think lead them to tap on the children say,

[00:18:09] we want to put you in? Well, it's a platform that has done a number of acquisitions. As I said,

[00:18:14] I know the people. I think that like anything when you're going to seek to scale the business further,

[00:18:22] you have to add more layers of folks on the team to try to coalesce everything to get better at

[00:18:29] what you've got to do to make that happen. They have a lot of terrific people in the business already

[00:18:36] and I take very much of a service or servant leadership kind of approach the business. A lot of

[00:18:44] organizations are dealing with a lot of change both externally and internally. How people do work,

[00:18:51] what is important versus what isn't? There are many dynamics today and you've read all the business

[00:18:58] journals especially when it comes to things like digital transformation of organizations,

[00:19:03] the workforce itself, especially post-COVID. There's a lot to consider there.

[00:19:11] I think the organization was already going through change and not speaking for Mr. Bruno or the board,

[00:19:17] but I think they didn't do it with a sense that anything was particularly wrong. They were looking at

[00:19:23] it as we need to continue to upgrade our talent to help us get where we're going to go.

[00:19:32] And I think that it just makes sense. You can see these brands behind me. We have a series of

[00:19:38] iconic brands in the business. We serve thousands of customers around the world.

[00:19:46] We have a very broad network of deals and distributors and fantastic customer base from core,

[00:19:54] from Crunch to EOS, globally just 24-7 and many others on leave and some out. But we are also in

[00:20:02] the vertical markets and doing a lot of things there. So it's exciting to work with great

[00:20:08] group of people with a bunch of great brands and I'm just delighted at the opportunity to try to help.

[00:20:14] Right on, great answer. Going into, so we're recording right here towards the tail end of 2023,

[00:20:19] which is for Mark Wolter, me, how fast time goes. The last three years as we talked about,

[00:20:27] very dynamic within the industry. Now as we're going to 2024, I think the common outlook

[00:20:33] for next year is that there's going to be a lot of consolidation. There's going to be a lot of

[00:20:39] the trends on the consumer side of personalization that I've talked about through technology.

[00:20:44] A lot of our things, but when we talk about consolidation and I've talked to Bill Davis about this,

[00:20:49] I talked to a couple other people on this show. How do you see that? It's just off your crystal ball

[00:20:54] here, Brian. How do you see that playing out over the next few years? What do you think is initially,

[00:21:00] I have a hunch, but why do you think it's driving that consolidation across the industry?

[00:21:05] When you talk about consolidation, you're talking about delivery systems like fitness facilities.

[00:21:09] I think acquisitions are for fitness facilities.

[00:21:15] Well, first off, the acquisition marketplace is a lot more challenging right now than it has been.

[00:21:22] And so while the driver of consolidation is there and I can talk about what that is,

[00:21:28] what you're going to be dealing with in the market. I think we've been dealing with it for a

[00:21:32] little while as an expectation issue because a lot of money was paid on valuations that don't apply

[00:21:38] anymore. And so a lot of potential acquisitions have been installed because investors don't want

[00:21:44] to take a taste of that poison pill, the bitter medicine that they're going to have to take

[00:21:52] because their economics just don't make sense anymore. The drivers are obvious. I mean,

[00:21:58] basically, especially with the cost of new construction which hopefully is waning but you saw

[00:22:04] planet fitness's release where they talked about, we used to build fog clubs. We can only build four.

[00:22:10] And in construction costs have gone up quite a bit which is problematic as well as other costs.

[00:22:16] So as profit margins get squeezed by certain operators that haven't reached enough scale,

[00:22:22] it's just basic economics. The bigger fish are going to be able to eat the little fish because

[00:22:28] their scale enables them to consume those other players under a different economics scenario.

[00:22:38] So they can allocate their cost over a broader number of units, etc.

[00:22:44] I think those are just the fundamental components of being economic drivers of the M&A game in the

[00:22:53] space. And who do you think is going to benefit the most over the next year or two if you had to

[00:22:58] take an educated guess? That's a good, good question. Well, I think the low price providers are

[00:23:05] going to be the ones that are going to benefit the most. You know, you know, planet is already

[00:23:11] acquired so that's other operators from the franchise summit. You know, you have a number of players

[00:23:17] that are in a kind of a growth spurt in markets that will probably evaluate an exit strategy there

[00:23:27] because they're not quite big enough. And they have to evaluate, you know, when is the right time

[00:23:35] for them to realize a cash out? A lot of these other players that are emergent or maybe more regional,

[00:23:44] you know, they brought in private equity or private capital five years ago. And so they're all going

[00:23:50] to be looking at okay, what's the cost of us sticking in and investing more versus what can we get

[00:23:56] for the business now? I think most of that play is going to be in the low price market.

[00:24:02] At the same time there are other operators who are at the higher end that they're struggling,

[00:24:07] especially with metropolitan areas experiencing still office space occupancies that are well below

[00:24:14] what they used to be. So, you know, there are a number of these brands that are dealing with some

[00:24:19] dynamics that they're going to have to figure out that have higher costs. So I'm a big fan of

[00:24:26] basic fit out of Europe. I think they're probably one of the better operators in the world.

[00:24:33] I know that their management doesn't necessarily maybe think about growing in an

[00:24:40] unorganic way through M&A, but I think if they wanted to do what they could,

[00:24:46] the same is true for a pure out of UK with Humphrey who's an outstanding CEO. So you get some really

[00:24:54] smart people that are putting profit on the bottom line that are in that sector. They have a lot

[00:24:59] of options available to them. And I think as opportunities avail themselves, they're going

[00:25:05] to evaluate and take advantage of it. So I can see that being the predominant arena for M&A

[00:25:12] in the coming year, year to two. Awesome. What's Brian? What's your opinion on the future of

[00:25:18] connected home fitness in that category? Yeah, I think it's going to be a category obviously. I think

[00:25:24] I think it was highly, I think people thought it was going to be much larger than it became.

[00:25:31] I mean, I remember when I was at Sideback in 2019, I gave up a keynote and in there,

[00:25:38] I reflected Peloton and just went public. I think it went public at a $29 share price

[00:25:44] and endless and nothing but respect for the product. I think there's a great product,

[00:25:48] et cetera. But that's a case study of where there's a detachment from reality when you've read

[00:25:55] their S1 that claimed that they were going to reach 75% of households in the United States with

[00:26:02] household income of $100,000 or more. And we all know a couple things. Number one, there are

[00:26:07] fads that come and go in the space. We know that. I mean, look at Nautilus, which has changed his

[00:26:12] name to BoFlex. That company with BoFlex was a huge bohemith in consumer, direct consumer

[00:26:21] with their marketing engine great success and now they're really struggling.

[00:26:27] We could go on and on with these different examples where it doesn't mean the business model

[00:26:32] of connected fitness doesn't work. It means the economics behind that at that scale don't work.

[00:26:38] There are too many alternatives. I trained at home and I trained at a gym. I do not have a peloton

[00:26:46] and it doesn't mean I've ridden them, but I have dumbbells, bands and that kind of thing and I run

[00:26:54] and cycle and then I'll go into a gym to do more serious weight training for different experience.

[00:27:00] I think there are just more and more consumers for convenience that do a combination of these

[00:27:04] kinds of things. So if you're going to count on a singular modality for a long time in a business,

[00:27:11] I think that's pretty risky because people as good of an experience at peloton are all those might be

[00:27:19] after a while, you're going to want to do something a little different and after a while

[00:27:24] the subscription model thing is going to get, you start well, I want something new now.

[00:27:31] I might, you know, and so I think that's just the nature of the beast.

[00:27:34] I do think though that a connected fitness, the whole arena of what that means is going to change

[00:27:40] quite a bit in the coming years. And you know Apple's not stupid, they've made it very clear

[00:27:45] that they're getting in the health business other people are as well. So these earphones I'm wearing,

[00:27:50] these device I have and the death of the smartphone is upon us in the next decade or less.

[00:27:57] You're going to see intelligent agents that are represent the most knowledgeable behavioralist

[00:28:03] and advisors and experts on you that are going to be able to guide you in your life.

[00:28:09] You know, right now I get on a scale every morning, I know my body, my percentage,

[00:28:13] I track my food, I know what my color burn is, I've got all that data. Now, you know, testing

[00:28:20] the stress in my voice, which is becoming a thing, knowing to measure all of my biometrics and

[00:28:27] then taking that data, understanding my sleep patterns, understanding the variability of my heart,

[00:28:33] understanding all these things and then coalescing that data in a meaningful way, understanding

[00:28:37] my psychology and having a humanized kind of approach of helping me with my health is going to

[00:28:45] become a mainstream thing. So the idea of connected fitness through kind of singular content,

[00:28:52] distribution is going to change. It's going to become far more personalized and far more

[00:29:01] in depth and it's ability to help us because we're humans and a lot of the things we do are for a lot

[00:29:08] of reasons that aren't just about, you know, running five miles or lifting weights. It's a holistic

[00:29:15] thing and the more we understand it with data and the more we have personalized data through agents

[00:29:22] that can talk to us in a voice that we find most appealing in our way that's the most effective,

[00:29:28] hopefully we can make these algorithms help our algorithm get better at being healthier.

[00:29:33] That was, because there's a lot I want to unpack there, Brian. You know, it's interesting like

[00:29:40] joke about this and it's kind of funny when you say it this way but like in some ways we're already

[00:29:44] like cyborg organisms right? Like we are integrating with technology whether we are fully aware

[00:29:50] of it or not. One of the things I want to unpack on that because this is something I, it's kind of

[00:29:57] you mentioned the death of the smartphone the next 10 years. Yeah, talk to me about that. What do

[00:30:03] you see? Yeah, well right now my watch here has a cellular device and I don't need to have my

[00:30:09] phone to make a call. It's all integrated here. I can listen to my podcast here. I don't need

[00:30:15] the phone now. I mean, I can talk to this and it will dial whoever I tell it to without a phone.

[00:30:22] And so what we're talking about is to your point, it's like cyborg. The technology is going to become

[00:30:29] more embedded in everything and so the thing about you know technologies is the negativity behind

[00:30:36] smartphones as great as they are. They're always distracting us and because of the way we have

[00:30:42] to deal with that technology, it's just a natural evolution that the way that technology works

[00:30:48] is more integrated to our human cells. And so you know, like my calendar are having

[00:30:54] see every text that comes through and being notified. That's where intelligent agents are

[00:30:59] increasingly going to be integrated here. And you know right now I'm on focus mode and so it

[00:31:05] knows not to let a call through unless it's an emergency. I will not get a text notification.

[00:31:12] And these are just the beginnings of balancing out, you know, the effectiveness of these tools and

[00:31:19] and kind of trying to glean the negativity out of them and embed them even more so that they're

[00:31:25] like the air we breathe. We know it's there but we don't when we're using it until it's not

[00:31:31] there and then you can't breathe and then you you know, you're going to react to it. So technologies

[00:31:35] can become more and more like the air we breathe. Well yeah, it's wild that when you think about

[00:31:41] the form function of a smartphone really hasn't changed since the iPhone launched in 2007, right?

[00:31:47] I mean they've tried you know they've tried to do the flip phone or the same which phone or

[00:31:51] whatever you want to call it. But like it's just the same thing right. It's just still a block

[00:31:55] you're just folding it in half. You know, I still miss the days of the actual flip phone.

[00:32:00] I know they're available now I actually almost bought one because I dropped my phone in the water

[00:32:05] when I was in Mexico. I was like God how good would it be just have an old-fashioned flip phone?

[00:32:09] I'm like, ah it's just not realistic anymore. Like you know, I want to be able to have that

[00:32:12] connection to email and things like that so I can travel effectively. If you had to take a

[00:32:18] gas and this is just fun 10 years from now what do you think the actual form function of the mobile

[00:32:25] devices we know will be? Is it going to be a wristwatch? Is it going to be something else?

[00:32:29] Is it going to be like where would you bet your money? Well the last I think you know basically

[00:32:34] the interfaces are going to be audio. Then you know what they're trying to do with this.

[00:32:42] I think you see and I talked about these in my talks. You see there's several technologies

[00:32:48] going on to put the contact lens in. I think that's a little further out. You see what's going

[00:32:54] it's basically the screen thing. You're going to have screens. I think there's no doubt screens

[00:32:58] are going to be cheaper and cheaper. The price of 100 inch high definition television is now

[00:33:05] you can get these things for like three to four grand now. I mean they're coming down.

[00:33:11] But those, as far as personal use goes you could have that and that's fine. You know

[00:33:16] there probably will be some kind of device you can bring into the ecosystem like this

[00:33:21] or you can put the glasses on or ultimately to contacts. And then as far as the device itself

[00:33:27] I think you know wrist is probably logical. And then you have a course other sensor devices.

[00:33:34] So you know putting you know a tattoo device on you or even for people with

[00:33:41] monitoring their blood sugar there's a lot of devices now and all the things just plug in and

[00:33:45] they enter in or in or in or late. So it's really you know taste is even a dynamic that might perhaps

[00:33:51] start to emerge. But it's basically the census you know it's touch and you see haptic now

[00:33:58] with with Apple gesture that's that's a thing with the watch now so you could see interfacing

[00:34:04] with technology just gesture using hands doing this you see eyes touch ears audible and that those

[00:34:13] you know again like the air we breathe it's going to be everywhere and that it's basically the

[00:34:18] configuration of that to you know collect data and deliver experience around that data. So

[00:34:24] that's that's what I see happening I think we're well on our way to to experiencing that with

[00:34:29] Apple's release coming up with their new headset it's really designed to replace the screen

[00:34:34] you know so you know it's a convenient thing and they don't really think people are going to walk

[00:34:39] around with these things on. They see these really professionals using those things to replace

[00:34:44] the screen at all it's doing is embedding you even more into a digital world and I think that's

[00:34:50] logical I think that's where it's going. As a as a human being how do you feel about that? Like our

[00:34:57] integration with technologies are you sound like obviously an optimist when it comes to technology

[00:35:02] right but we like do you have any reservations does do you have any yeah like how do you feel about

[00:35:09] that yeah I think well there's always going to be problems that emerge and technology that emerges

[00:35:14] again to solve those sets of problems Kevin Kelly talks about this and some of his talks I'm a big fan

[00:35:19] of his and so yeah they're going to be some problems just like when we invented the automobile

[00:35:25] and then car accidents came to be a thing that we didn't have to worry about before you know or

[00:35:30] pollution started occurring that we didn't have to worry about before so then it's up to the next

[00:35:35] air of technology to fix those things and then they're gonna they're gonna create create

[00:35:41] unanticipated outcomes and they're gonna be problems I mean we know that the use of social media

[00:35:47] with smartphones being the culprit has really been a problem with with people in their perception

[00:35:54] their lines you know depression amongst teenage girls is written significantly there's been a

[00:35:59] row of writings on this so for their for the good the constant there's always going to be bad

[00:36:05] we know about the algorithms that in the consequences of those and that's why with open AI

[00:36:13] you know which started out as a nonprofit it really its mission was to really be a steward

[00:36:18] of the technology because as you get more advanced the consequences become less anticipated

[00:36:25] sometimes and they're more severe in their potential outcome whether it's nuclear energy

[00:36:30] the atom bomb resulting in clean energy ultimately with fusion there's always a dark side we've

[00:36:36] got to navigate and so yeah I mean there are there are gonna be problems there's no doubt hopefully

[00:36:43] humanity becomes responsible because these things are they are not retained by borders and it requires

[00:36:52] much more global cooperation to deal with these things and that's that's a challenge right now

[00:36:57] um so I'm a realist I'm a fundamentalist in that sense but I'm also an optimist in the

[00:37:03] long run I think it's gonna be okay I think the benefit you know of it is gonna be substantial

[00:37:09] for for all of humanity but it's not gonna be without its it's a downsides yeah yeah we'll

[00:37:15] said and I think I'm close to where you are on it uh but I'm not quite sure it's gonna be okay

[00:37:22] and yeah that's that's just that's there which is the way the conversations need to go um yeah

[00:37:27] well you know one of the things I've kind of want to put into a larger category for our conversation

[00:37:33] everybody has like uh you know longevity right is become a very popular thing for so many reasons um

[00:37:40] this year uh overall health and wellness is is the trend right uh and I've always seen

[00:37:47] one of the greatest opportunities we have as an industry when I talk about fitness and uh

[00:37:51] overall is like how do we get ourselves at the forefront of preventative healthcare right you

[00:37:56] know the dream of like a doctor writing a prescription um to go see your local fitness professional

[00:38:02] right and that's starting there and there's a lot of people working on it right um true men

[00:38:07] is out there for a long time yeah for a long time long time it's not gonna it's it's not gonna work okay

[00:38:13] so tell us why yeah it's not gonna work well in the United States it's certainly not gonna work

[00:38:17] because the sick care system is not about uh preventative medicine you don't make money uh

[00:38:23] most of the realities behind is and I'm sat on the medical fitness association education committee

[00:38:28] I've been to hundreds of medical fitness facilities uh even those are not really integrated

[00:38:34] into a health care system because the bottom line is the sick care system does not make money

[00:38:41] keeping people well yeah and neither are insurance companies which is the biggest racket going in

[00:38:47] the United States um insurance companies they had no value uh if you if you look at the dynamic behind

[00:38:53] insures they have no the only reason you see some of these initiatives in my opinion is for marketing

[00:38:59] purposes and to keep the regulators at bay oh we're giving away free um you know watches to our

[00:39:07] our insurers in this population well you know some of those HMOs and Medicare populations and

[00:39:13] there's an economics there and how those people and they're competing for certain populations by

[00:39:18] providing what is essentially promotional stuff but they're really not using that as a business model

[00:39:24] you know the idea that you're making money on that and and if you go to um I did a podcast with

[00:39:31] Rick Mayo recently and talked a little bit about this who's been on your show um yeah long

[00:39:36] jeopardy is a thing quality health quality health is a thing but a model to really deliver on that

[00:39:42] is not really appeared yet now I know there's some that are out there you know you see lifetime

[00:39:47] doing some things you see Peter Dean Mondes' model uh you know it's $20,000 so the initial scan

[00:39:54] and the full in blood work deal um myself has have a concierge doctor that I can get on home but

[00:40:00] none of these people are integrated in any way because there's no economic incentive to do so

[00:40:06] so unless you're a person with a significant amount of personal discretionary income or wealth

[00:40:12] that doesn't exist and the reason it doesn't exist is there are no incentives to make it work

[00:40:16] institutional even though all the economics there there's no alignment um you know when united

[00:40:22] health makes the amount of money it makes it doesn't have to invest in this to keep making the

[00:40:27] money it makes because it's a sick care system it's not a healthcare system it's not a wellness

[00:40:32] prevention system because they can't make money on that and so I think you know I think there's

[00:40:39] a number of drivers that are going to make it be relevant for certain populations but until

[00:40:45] it's kind of like higher education right now the price of that is just outrageous for what it

[00:40:50] delivers for many um but until some of these institutions break and fail there is no impetus

[00:40:59] and the uh to change it and the idea that we're going to influence public policy is another rose

[00:41:04] colored glass a rose colored glasses approach because when you look at policy in government the

[00:41:11] United States right now I think Amazon alone has almost 110 lobbyists on the hill um you just

[00:41:18] have entrenched players that have significant financial interest in continuing the status quo

[00:41:26] so like a lot of institutions as I've talked about in my speeches in the last few years

[00:41:31] the number one commodity in the world right now is trust uh people do not trust institutions for good

[00:41:37] reasons uh you know because when they see their interests not being aligned with the institutions

[00:41:43] that are defined to supposedly help them that's where the disconnect comes and sadly

[00:41:49] changed doesn't often happen in a smooth and easy way it's either you know it's usually through pain

[00:41:56] and uh until things start breaking uh and people wake up I don't know how we can institutionalize that

[00:42:02] change they'll be they'll be you know they'll be examples like me with my concierge doctor technology

[00:42:08] is going to evolve to do these things better um and you know hopefully maybe people go well I'm not

[00:42:14] I can't afford spending $20,000 a year on premiums with a $10,000 deductible I better get my blood

[00:42:20] pressure under under control because I'll be busted if I'm if I don't you know so you know these are

[00:42:26] the realities that I think eventually will lead to solutions but in the near term I'm not an

[00:42:31] optimist and seeing those things really work yeah well it's an interesting viewpoint and you know one

[00:42:36] of the things I've picked up so far in our conversation Brian is that you do not sure

[00:42:40] go right you just you say that as it is it's great I am in a question but it's very

[00:42:46] well I don't I'm often not right but I'll tell you what I think that's great um although although

[00:42:52] I got to say this Eric you know me and I obviously I don't know everything in other words we'd be

[00:42:57] on my yacht in the Mediterranean somewhere but but um but I would say that you know when I was in

[00:43:02] Europe active talking years ago and I brought up the fact of uh of uh you know artificial

[00:43:08] intelligent being a real thing people laughed me off the stage literally when when I spoke about

[00:43:14] what was going to happen to Peloton people just laughed at me and so look here's what I meant

[00:43:19] about being a fundamentals and I believe I'm not always right but generally speaking there are

[00:43:24] there are truths that I think are fundamental and um you know um you you you started to

[00:43:31] discern the difference between flash and the pans and the reality of what uh is happening you

[00:43:37] know from an economic dynamic from a demographic dynamic from all these dynamics and if you take a

[00:43:42] 50,000 foot view and you read enough and you kind of have a sense of it you can't predict

[00:43:48] perfectly but over time I think it gets easier to see um of what some fundamental things are that

[00:43:55] that will tend to you know there'll be jig jags along the way you can't foresee everything but

[00:44:00] they will tend to play out and um and so I think that's just the way it is yeah well said

[00:44:07] what uh what say you Brian about we were talking about prior recording um like lifetimes you know

[00:44:14] adoption of semi-glutide brand name those epic right that's been all over conversations everywhere

[00:44:20] across the industry and you know the uh unite I think I think we have a similar outlook on it but

[00:44:26] the initial feedback was like everyone was like there is no magic pill people are too lazy this

[00:44:31] is gonna be terrible right and I'm like I don't know I think I think this is a good thing right it's

[00:44:38] a catalyst for change and that's good for industry because let's face it we've done a shit job

[00:44:45] trying to get into you know the majority of the population for a long time we've been talking about

[00:44:49] this you know 20% 80% thing for a long long time I'm like anything that can get us into that you know

[00:44:56] if we can push a little bit farther in right get a little bit of people who would never come into a

[00:45:01] gym otherwise in there um that's I'm down for it let's give it a shot like why not right so what

[00:45:06] is your opinion so far of how that's going on well I think it can and not just this drug I think

[00:45:12] there are a lot more things that are coming um they can because people don't go to gyms or

[00:45:18] facilities for fitness because they're intimidated that's the number one thing they or they feel

[00:45:23] ashamed themselves I got to lose 10 20 pounds before I even go workout because they're worried about

[00:45:28] the way they look and how they feel when they train etc you know I mean there's plenty of research

[00:45:32] and all this stuff everyone knows it so no I see it as a good thing I think when people are struggling

[00:45:38] with their weight and they're not healthy as a result and they take these medications now I

[00:45:44] and it's been widely proven that if you strength train while you're doing this you're gonna have

[00:45:50] much better outcomes because you're gonna lose less muscle fat you're not gonna be skinny fat

[00:45:55] you're gonna you know you're gonna retain a much more g

[00:46:10] talking about that so there's a lot of using that therapy in the right ways I think can do a lot

[00:46:15] of good and will you know increase demand the only challenge is that the price of the drug is

[00:46:21] very prohibited right now and you know but you know knock on wood over time hopefully

[00:46:29] you know we will see the release of other medications and maybe subsidies around it because

[00:46:36] of the economics of sick care well I can't make money on you in the very atrick bed doing what

[00:46:41] I got to do to get you you know to to conduct weight loss surgery or whatever other therapies that

[00:46:46] might be delivered through sick care but so maybe I can make it on the drug side instead you know so

[00:46:54] what's interesting about that is you're using that same delivery system of sick care to help people

[00:47:00] get into preventative care and a juror will be out on how people manage that long term I think it

[00:47:06] is interesting as a general commentary though when people you see people losing weight or you see

[00:47:13] people getting healthier and I've actually witnessed this first hand from people in the fitness space

[00:47:18] did you do that naturally like it's some kind of shameful thing to take a therapy that helps people

[00:47:25] like you're morally corrupt if you would just eat and write and work that in that kind of judgment

[00:47:31] and I'm the guy it's like look there's I've also had some people one person I know

[00:47:36] particular take the drug and had a very you know bad side effects from it so you know we got to

[00:47:42] be careful but at the same time look therapies the deal with science it's uncovering more details

[00:47:48] how the human body actually functions with its hormonal systems and you know how it processes

[00:47:54] blood sugar and all these things I mean this is this is our anatomy and you know thank god we

[00:48:00] had penicillin invented I mean it's no different really when you start thinking about it I think

[00:48:05] we're on a kind of a we're going to be in a wave of these kind of therapies emerging over time

[00:48:10] to help people make the transition into a better healthy preventative lifestyle yeah we'll say

[00:48:17] I mean it's funny when people say well it's not natural and I stop what people say I'm like look

[00:48:22] around like what about it's lifestyle is natural there's nothing about it like we're on or

[00:48:27] nothing but I'm not saying technology I'm spending 97% of my day indoors like this isn't natural so

[00:48:32] like we got to look for unnatural ways to kind of counterbalance and it just makes a lot of sense right

[00:48:37] I had um you know I think this was a glimpse into why I'm optimistic about you know this these

[00:48:42] programs that Cohen's side with some agglutized like I uh in my gym in the you know probably 2012

[00:48:49] 2013 time I was working with post-pariatric surgery patients and I could tell you um very motivated

[00:48:57] people right they had just lost a ton of weight they knew nothing about nutrition and exercise

[00:49:04] but they were they they knew they had to do something otherwise all this time and energy that

[00:49:09] they would go back to where they were so they were there they were motivated and these are people

[00:49:13] who had never been in the gym before so that was like a small glimpse into why I think this is a big

[00:49:18] deal um and I'm really optimistic about it um I know uh I'm kind of button up on on your time here

[00:49:25] Brian yeah what's uh yeah yeah I really appreciate I could talk to you and ask you questions for

[00:49:31] a long time so hopefully you'll agree to come back on next year at some point um or that's very

[00:49:35] kind of you I'd be happy to join you yeah and uh yeah so I guess the last question is how can we

[00:49:41] help you as an industry what do you need assistance with what do you mean exactly well if you want people

[00:49:47] to reach out to you for specific things like uh you want to get some of what we should hear about

[00:49:51] I'm pretty open I mean go on LinkedIn I'm pretty open I'm on all the platforms of I'm very fortunate

[00:49:58] to have a lot of followers in my network and I follow a lot of folks too like you and uh you know

[00:50:04] um you know I um I'm pretty responsive even with everything going on so I'm more of a servant

[00:50:12] leader so I don't ask for help as much as I give it and so uh you know of course I'd love people to

[00:50:19] look at our products and all the companies that in this one in particular but um but no I appreciate

[00:50:25] you asking but uh it's really more about what I can do for the audience and you right on uh and

[00:50:31] I presume LinkedIn is a good good place for uh people to go they want to connect with you yeah yeah

[00:50:36] you can google my name is Plenty of Platforms LinkedIn's a good one and um you know um you

[00:50:41] know so just reach out awesome and also uh Brian Keo-Rork is a .com is a good place to go and um

[00:50:48] Brian thank you so much for joining me uh I'm gonna let you go so you can continue uh CEO

[00:50:52] right there and uh yeah it's been great blazing gentlemen Brian Keo-Rork a thanks and Eric one last

[00:50:59] thing I want to thank the 1700 employees around the world of core for their warm welcome into

[00:51:03] working with the team and all of my other partners and friends in the industry space for all of our

[00:51:08] time and collaboration over the years and you for doing what you're doing keep up the good work

[00:51:12] right on love it hey wait don't leave yet this was your host Eric Mao-Zone and I hope you enjoyed

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[00:52:09] have a great day