Al Noshirvani - Key Fitness Technology Trends -2024

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[00:02:07] All right, we are live. Al, Norsher, Vani.

[00:02:10] Welcome back to the future of fitness, my friend.

[00:02:12] It's been way too long.

[00:02:14] Way too long. Thanks for having me again, Al.

[00:02:16] Yeah.

[00:02:18] You are like when I think of like fitness technology, you come to mind a lot.

[00:02:23] Just because you know everybody, you have a very deep understanding of what's going on in the

[00:02:29] industry and as we're going to kind of talk about here.

[00:02:32] I think you've seen, you've been around long enough to see some cycles run through

[00:02:36] and you understand what the long-term trends are versus the hype cycles and things that hit

[00:02:42] the headlines and you're coming into the real like deep technology changes of the industry.

[00:02:46] Obviously your time at MotionSoft, which we'll talk about, you know,

[00:02:49] what you've been up to since then, but I just get a lot of, I guess I could have a lot of respect

[00:02:53] for what you do and I get a lot of insights from our conversation.

[00:02:58] So let's get right into it.

[00:03:00] People can look you up, you know, check them on LinkedIn.

[00:03:02] He's got plenty of information on what your background is, Al.

[00:03:07] So first and foremost, you have the fitness technology summit coming for the first time

[00:03:11] to the West Coast this October and exact dates are October 21st and 23rd, 21st to the 23rd.

[00:03:20] Tell me a little bit about the summit itself.

[00:03:23] Let's start with that, like the history of the summit.

[00:03:25] Why did you start it?

[00:03:26] And what is like the, when you look at the mission or the goal,

[00:03:30] like the value that you want your attendees to get, like why did you do it?

[00:03:36] Yeah, so the summit actually started as the MotionSoft Technology Summit and the first one

[00:03:41] we did was in New York City 15 years ago.

[00:03:44] And I did it because I found there to be a void for technology executives and the fitness industry

[00:03:51] and the traditional conferences and trade shows that were available.

[00:03:55] So if you were going to, what was then the Ursa Trade Show now,

[00:03:58] the Health and Fitness Association or IDEA or SIDBAC or any of these other meetings,

[00:04:03] they were always geared towards operational personnel.

[00:04:06] And I felt like the technology folks needed to have a forum where they could exchange ideas.

[00:04:12] And technology folks tend to be a lot more open when it comes to IDEA sharing.

[00:04:16] So that first event was actually, as I said, in New York City and we had Jay Blanik who is

[00:04:22] responsible for the design and development and the product roadmap for the Apple Watch

[00:04:27] come with the first watch.

[00:04:29] He had it on his wrist.

[00:04:30] He wouldn't let anyone hold it in his hands.

[00:04:32] It was very Apple-esque, but he didn't walk around the room and let everyone sort of look at

[00:04:36] it, which was kind of cool.

[00:04:37] And we sort of created a little bit of buzz for the folks that were there at MotionSoft.

[00:04:41] We had some great customers, of course, organizations like Crunch and Equinox and Towns Sports

[00:04:46] that were all New York based.

[00:04:48] And that's why we did it up there.

[00:04:49] Subsequent to that, I obviously sold MotionSoft to DAXCO in 2020,

[00:04:54] but I kept the fitness technology.

[00:04:57] Well, what became the Fitness Technology Summit, obviously MotionSoft was

[00:05:00] the brand that DAXCO acquired.

[00:05:02] So we rebranded as a Fitness Technology Summit and we continue to grow it.

[00:05:07] Our mission is to create, obviously, a forum where technology, marketing, and finance executives,

[00:05:13] and more recently this year, CEOs, as well, because we now have a dual track event.

[00:05:18] So it's not just about technology anymore.

[00:05:20] There's an operations track and a tech track.

[00:05:23] But we wanted to create this forum where they could get together, exchange ideas.

[00:05:26] And we sort of have a couple of other goals when we do the event.

[00:05:30] We want it to be a double bottom line event.

[00:05:32] Obviously, we want to generate income and revenue and all that sort of thing.

[00:05:36] But we also want to highlight certain things.

[00:05:39] And so as a company that was a startup at some point and went to the venture capital raises

[00:05:44] and all that sort of stuff and ultimately exited, I wanted to create an opportunity

[00:05:47] for other startups in the fit tech space to be able to present what they have.

[00:05:52] So we have a startup spotlight where organizations come in and they get to do a CEO,

[00:05:57] get to do a five minute pitch.

[00:06:00] And then the room votes on the startup that they're most sort of inspired and excited about

[00:06:04] on our LinkedIn page, Fitness Technology Summit LinkedIn page.

[00:06:09] And then we also partner with Charity.

[00:06:12] So each year we find an organization that is connected to the fitness industry.

[00:06:17] Last year as an example, we worked with the John W. Brick Foundation,

[00:06:21] which was started by Lynn and Victor Brick to raise mental health awareness.

[00:06:27] And it was a wonderful event.

[00:06:30] We donate to it this year.

[00:06:32] We are partnering with the folks from Augies Quest.

[00:06:34] They used to have a bash at the Ursa Convention each year

[00:06:40] and wanted to find a forum where they could sort of recreate that.

[00:06:43] And so we've rented out on the second night of the event,

[00:06:47] we've rented out the Omnia Night Club in Caesars Palace,

[00:06:49] which is so, so cool.

[00:06:51] You can sort of see the entire by Vegas Strip.

[00:06:54] We've got their outdoor terrace and we're contributing all of the food and beverage

[00:06:59] and venue rentals and all that stuff to Augies Quest.

[00:07:03] So there's a lot of reasons why I do this event.

[00:07:05] Of course it keeps me connected to the industry and it's been great.

[00:07:10] It's a passion project for sure.

[00:07:12] Yeah, yeah, that sounds fantastic.

[00:07:14] And I mean, so it started 15 years ago,

[00:07:16] I would just kind of get started in my fitness industry career

[00:07:19] and from what I remember, fitness technology was barely even a thing.

[00:07:23] I mean, I think back then when I would have thought of fitness technology,

[00:07:26] I would have thought of software, maybe, you know, maybe,

[00:07:29] I don't know, wearables.

[00:07:31] I had like, I think I had my first HRB tracker as a chest,

[00:07:35] like a chest strap that I had to put on every morning.

[00:07:38] And it gave me just a green or a red for the day.

[00:07:41] And that was like, that was technology, right?

[00:07:43] So it's obviously come a long way.

[00:07:45] It's expanded in its breadth.

[00:07:47] Maybe if you could, like,

[00:07:49] when you look back the last 15 years,

[00:07:51] does it blow your mind at the advancements of fitness technology

[00:07:55] and what do you think have been some of the biggest surprises

[00:07:58] in fitness technology?

[00:08:00] Yeah. I mean, it's exponentially different than it was 15 years ago these days.

[00:08:06] I think, you know, one of the reasons that they're thinking back

[00:08:09] is I'm talking to you.

[00:08:11] I remember talking to customers or prospects at the time

[00:08:15] when we were running MotionSoft,

[00:08:17] and we were always referred to as point of sale systems.

[00:08:21] So that used to really annoy me because we did so much more in our products.

[00:08:26] There was reporting and data and all of these things.

[00:08:29] And we had the luxury of working with some organizations.

[00:08:31] So I give a lot of credit to likes like Equinox,

[00:08:35] who really drove us to develop functionality in our applications

[00:08:39] that enables operators to leverage technology

[00:08:42] in a much different way than historically we were used to.

[00:08:46] The fact of the matter is that the software industry

[00:08:48] and the fitness space grew out of accounts receivable management companies

[00:08:51] that were doing billing and collections.

[00:08:54] You know, if I look at the sort of a timeline over the past 15 years,

[00:08:58] there was this sort of growth into CRM.

[00:09:00] That was a big push.

[00:09:02] And then once the CRM sort of got a foot hold with companies like Jim Sales

[00:09:06] and VSV and ClubOS,

[00:09:08] then we sort of could really focus on data

[00:09:11] because now you had multiple systems that you had to get information out of.

[00:09:15] You had your member management system,

[00:09:16] you had your CRM system, you had your website.

[00:09:19] Then it got into search engine marketing

[00:09:21] and all the things you could do with Google Analytics and local search.

[00:09:24] And it just, it's, we were constantly moving the ball forward.

[00:09:29] You know, albeit I would say at a much slower pace than other industries.

[00:09:33] And so, you know, today, you know, we have, we talk,

[00:09:38] we're going to tell you, we're going to talk about this convergence of healthcare

[00:09:40] and health club that's happening around GLP ones

[00:09:43] and lots of other things, insurance reimbursements, et cetera.

[00:09:46] The technology plays a role in all aspects of operations.

[00:09:49] And I think that we have finally started to make a transition

[00:09:53] from viewing technology as just a cost center

[00:09:55] and more so as a revenue generating center.

[00:09:58] And I'd encourage club operators to sort of look at their technology teams

[00:10:02] as a vendor, an inside vendor who is responsible for delivering solutions

[00:10:07] that are operationally oriented for your spa department

[00:10:11] or your food and beverage department

[00:10:13] or your personal training department or your group X department.

[00:10:16] So, you know, that's the, it's now everywhere, right?

[00:10:19] Before it was just at the front desk and monthly billing.

[00:10:21] And of course with wearables and integrations and APIs,

[00:10:25] there's just a lot to talk about.

[00:10:26] And sometimes it's overwhelming.

[00:10:28] So, you know, we think that the summit allows idea sharing

[00:10:31] which is really see networking opportunities, education sessions

[00:10:36] and an opportunity for people to take something

[00:10:39] that they can implement in their organizations once they get there.

[00:10:43] Yeah, awesome.

[00:10:45] Question of curiosity.

[00:10:47] Why do you think the fitness industry is slower to adapt with technology?

[00:10:51] Do you have any theories on that?

[00:10:53] You know, I think January is a double-edged sword for our industry

[00:10:57] because it comes around every year.

[00:10:59] People know that they're going to get this bump.

[00:11:01] Interestingly, the last couple of years,

[00:11:04] it seems to be smoothing out a little bit, right?

[00:11:07] And so I think that we have these sort of fulcrums in our industry

[00:11:11] where you get these massive influxes of people coming in.

[00:11:14] And everyone is always preparing for those.

[00:11:16] But it's much better to be able to do that sort of production

[00:11:21] on a more sort of in a smoother way over the course of a 12-month period.

[00:11:26] So I guess my sense is that technology can enable organizations to do that.

[00:11:34] So part of it is you can't rely on January anymore.

[00:11:38] There's too much competition.

[00:11:39] There's way too many aggregators out there,

[00:11:42] organizations like GymPass and ClassPass and Weld, etc.,

[00:11:45] that are doing work that requires you to be on your game all the time.

[00:11:50] You can either put bodies in play, which is very expensive,

[00:11:53] or you can leverage tech.

[00:11:55] Yeah, well said.

[00:11:56] Yeah, I was talking to a run a mastermind group in technology.

[00:12:02] One of the conversations was like the guy I found out this time of year is really hard because

[00:12:07] people start looking at January, February, and they're like,

[00:12:10] okay, we need everything ready by December.

[00:12:13] And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, it doesn't work like that.

[00:12:15] Like we need to start, but no one cares about it in March.

[00:12:18] Right?

[00:12:19] So it's like this weird cycle that we've been, we put ourselves in.

[00:12:23] Well, let's talk about, and these are my words, not yours.

[00:12:27] I feel like our industry tends to love the hype cycle when it comes to every year,

[00:12:33] there's one or two new things that everybody is super excited to talk about.

[00:12:36] There's a buzzword for two.

[00:12:38] It's so predictable.

[00:12:41] I actually get enjoyment out of it just from an entertainment standpoint now.

[00:12:45] But this year, I gotta believe that you would agree that GLP1 and artificial intelligence

[00:12:51] are basically in 90% of the conversations across the board.

[00:12:55] And I mean, even just like AI is like every dinner party I'm at comes up.

[00:13:01] So when you look at those two kind of macro trends of 2024,

[00:13:05] do you agree that they are the two biggest things we should be talking about?

[00:13:09] And then secondary question is what are we missing as far as trends that should be talked about?

[00:13:14] Yeah, I do think those are the two biggest.

[00:13:16] And when you bring up the hype cycle, I keep remembering WED 2.0.

[00:13:20] I don't know if anyone remembers that point.

[00:13:22] That was three or four years ago when everyone was buying the virtual properties

[00:13:27] and creating their fake avatars.

[00:13:29] I'm not sure what happened to all those fake avatars.

[00:13:31] I'm sure some people are succeeding with it.

[00:13:36] But yeah, it was total hype cycle.

[00:13:38] I think GLPs are a little bit different and I'll come to Jenny.

[00:13:40] I stuck in.

[00:13:41] I think GLPs are different because they're not really necessarily driven by the fitness industry.

[00:13:46] And in fact, WED 2.0 wasn't driven by fitness either.

[00:13:49] But I think that, look, there's some ridiculous number,

[00:13:53] 150 million Americans that are now taking GLPs in some way, shape, or form.

[00:13:58] I don't think that we necessarily have to, in our industry, drive GLP adoption.

[00:14:04] It's happening because the obesity cycle in this country is what it is.

[00:14:09] And bariatric surgeons and general practitioners are prescribing these medications because

[00:14:15] people are dying because they're overweight.

[00:14:18] It's as simple as that.

[00:14:20] I have a friend of mine who's a bariatric surgeon and he shared with me that in 2000, 1998 to 2000,

[00:14:28] when he graduated from med school, there were something like 500 bariatric surgeons in the U.S.

[00:14:33] that were providing bariatric surgery bypasses, etc., gastric bypasses.

[00:14:41] And those 500 met 2% of the U.S. need for that type of surgery.

[00:14:48] Today, there are thousands of bariatric surgeons in the United States.

[00:14:52] And we still represent only 2% of the need that they have.

[00:14:56] And so I think GLPs are interesting for us as an organization because they solve one of the biggest

[00:15:01] problems that we have always had in the fitness industry.

[00:15:05] And that is that people come in and they expect immediate results.

[00:15:10] They walk into the gym.

[00:15:12] They work their butts off that first day because, by the way, nothing hurts if you

[00:15:16] haven't been to the gym in two or three years and you show up that first day and pretty much do

[00:15:19] anything. But the next day doesn't feel so great.

[00:15:23] And of course, we all know that the number one reason people join is because of the GLPs.

[00:15:28] So I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry.

[00:15:29] The number one reason people join is because of weight loss.

[00:15:32] They are interested in the reality.

[00:15:34] And the GLPs sort of allow us to deliver that immediate gratification, which fortunately,

[00:15:39] unfortunately, is what we as people want.

[00:15:42] And so what's interesting, of course, about them, and I'm sure all of the listeners are

[00:15:48] familiar with this, is that there's a disproportionate loss of muscle mass versus fat.

[00:15:55] And I think that's where we come in.

[00:15:57] We say to the doctors and to the prescribers out there, do what it is you're doing.

[00:16:02] We can be the solution for this other problem that is being caused, right?

[00:16:07] General feelings of crump.

[00:16:09] You don't feel great.

[00:16:10] You sort of have, you're losing this muscle mass.

[00:16:14] We can solve for that problem.

[00:16:15] And so I think I view it more as a partnership as opposed to a solution for fitness.

[00:16:20] So that's my two cents on GLPs.

[00:16:24] We've surveyed the members of the clubs that I own and we've got thousands of people that

[00:16:29] are using them. Some people go on them for a short period of time.

[00:16:32] They come off, et cetera.

[00:16:33] So that's the GLP thing.

[00:16:35] Gen AI, I mean, I think whether you like it or not, it is touching every single one of our

[00:16:41] lives every day, whether it's interacting with a website chat feature, et cetera,

[00:16:46] or writing a marketing post.

[00:16:49] Everyone's using it, whether they admit it or not, they're using it.

[00:16:52] And so I think that there are some very specific use cases that are interesting

[00:16:55] with Gen AI.

[00:16:56] I think we have to be careful because you've heard there are lots of opportunities for

[00:17:02] technology to replace people and that's not always ideal.

[00:17:05] The screenwriters are a great example of that.

[00:17:07] They stopped it.

[00:17:08] I think personal trainers in our industry have to be sensitive to that because you can

[00:17:12] go into chat GPT, for example, and say, hey, give me a marathon training program.

[00:17:16] I'm running in the New York City Marathon in September and it'll give you a great

[00:17:19] schedule of what you should do.

[00:17:21] But I do think that there are other ways that it can be leveraged without

[00:17:25] compromising staff and people.

[00:17:27] So for example, everyone is selling memberships online.

[00:17:30] Wouldn't it be great if you could sell sort of an a la carte specific membership to a

[00:17:36] person based on what it is they want as opposed to this sort of bundle of arbitrary

[00:17:40] services that are out there?

[00:17:42] Chat GPT and Gen AI allow you to do that.

[00:17:44] And that's just one use case.

[00:17:45] I think there's lots of others.

[00:17:47] I'm excited about Gen AI.

[00:17:48] Can you expand on that?

[00:17:50] Like, what does that look like exactly?

[00:17:51] Like Eric Malzone comes to a health club or gym.

[00:17:55] I have specific goals.

[00:17:56] I'm more of a longevity guy.

[00:18:00] Like I want to reduce knee pain, but still stay strong and active and maybe lose like five pounds.

[00:18:07] So if I have specific goals, how does that help?

[00:18:10] And then I think the challenge with any kind of bespoke membership is that it gets very

[00:18:15] complicated to input into the system and then eventually fulfill.

[00:18:19] So how does that in your mind say, how does that work?

[00:18:26] Fitness San Francisco, the S and the F stand for that.

[00:18:30] Fitness SF did a Gen AI function on their website.

[00:18:34] They call it Cardi O, which I think is kind of cool.

[00:18:37] But if you go onto their website, you can do exactly what you just did.

[00:18:42] You can do on the what you just said, you can type into the website and it will

[00:18:45] turn back to you a set of variables that say, okay, based on everything you just shared with

[00:18:51] me, you're interested in longevity, you're sort of strength training,

[00:18:54] you're not a big fan of select rise to put in it.

[00:18:57] All of those types of things, it will tell you what it is that it thinks based on other members

[00:19:03] of similar behavior and characteristics attributes have done.

[00:19:08] And by the way, what it can also do is say, what is the package that creates the longest

[00:19:12] member life based on this person's requirements?

[00:19:16] And you don't have to now go enter all that stuff into the system.

[00:19:20] The integrations that are available via many of the member management system APIs

[00:19:24] will actually suck that data in and create the membership.

[00:19:28] But I agree with you, it's tough to put that in the hands of a sales person in the gent.

[00:19:33] They're just too much way too many variables, but technology enables it in a very,

[00:19:38] very effective way.

[00:19:39] It reduces if in my view enhances the member experience because I now have been able,

[00:19:45] I can join a gym that gives me exactly what I want in 10 minutes as opposed to go through

[00:19:51] the whole work of moral of the tour and the visit and all that sort of stuff.

[00:19:54] So I just think it's a game changer.

[00:19:57] And then again, that's just one use case, PT, saves, all of those types of things are

[00:20:02] other use cases.

[00:20:03] Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting.

[00:20:06] I've never heard that before.

[00:20:07] Very thought provoking.

[00:20:08] Going back to the GLP one, so I'm an advocate, a proponent.

[00:20:13] I think it's a good thing for the industry.

[00:20:15] I mean, it irks me that the food industries made so much money on making us fat and

[00:20:23] sick.

[00:20:23] Now the pharmaceutical companies are coming in and make a lot of money on a problem

[00:20:26] that never really should have existed in the first place.

[00:20:29] So anyway, that being said, it is the way it is.

[00:20:32] Right?

[00:20:32] There's a lot of people in the industry who've been around for a while.

[00:20:35] Even some of them have been on the show and we'll say,

[00:20:38] no, you got to do it the old fashioned way.

[00:20:40] There's no magic pill.

[00:20:41] Right?

[00:20:42] Like you got to...

[00:20:43] What do you say to that percentage of our part grouping?

[00:20:48] We talked about the fact that the number one reason people join GEMs is they'll lose weight.

[00:20:54] We are an industry that has attrition rates that approach 50% annually.

[00:20:59] Like we also said, January shows up every year so all of our repeat offenders come back in

[00:21:04] through the revolving door.

[00:21:05] As an industry, we have in essence failed to deliver on the promise.

[00:21:11] And so my sense is that while there are certain people that you can really drive lifestyle change,

[00:21:17] et cetera, and the vast majority of people...

[00:21:19] And by the way, we have a 20% penetration and our 25% penetration of our population.

[00:21:25] And so we're not even touching the majority of people.

[00:21:28] And so if you can get those people in the GEM, I think the conversation stops there.

[00:21:32] Right?

[00:21:33] Historically 50% attrition never broke in that 20%, 25% barrier instead of penetration.

[00:21:39] If I can get my physician to be the trusted source of weight loss advice for me,

[00:21:46] and that physician says to me, walk into the GEM...

[00:21:49] By the way, that same bariatric surgeon in front of mine.

[00:21:51] The other thing that he's done is he's opened up personal training studios

[00:21:54] in the basement of his medical office building.

[00:21:56] Why aren't we partnering with those folks?

[00:21:58] My two cents.

[00:22:00] Yeah, no, I agree.

[00:22:01] I'm 100% with you.

[00:22:02] I think it's one of the greatest opportunities I've seen since I've been in this industry

[00:22:05] because I mean, 17 years now for me and the penetration rates didn't exactly the same.

[00:22:11] I haven't seen it.

[00:22:12] The arm thing change and it gets tiresome to keep talking about it, to be honest with you.

[00:22:17] Yeah, I admit.

[00:22:19] Hey friends, Eric Malzone here.

[00:22:22] I've had the honor of interviewing over 750 professionals across the fitness,

[00:22:26] health and wellness industries.

[00:22:28] There's one thing I know for sure.

[00:22:29] Without a doubt, there is a tremendous opportunity to leverage a highly valuable

[00:22:33] and relatively untapped network of independent podcasters and content creators.

[00:22:38] Traditional advertising isn't what it used to be.

[00:22:41] Costs are high, consumer trust is low.

[00:22:44] I've seen the results firsthand.

[00:22:45] It can assure you there's a much better way to connect with your target audience

[00:22:49] and emerge as a thought leader in our industry.

[00:22:52] That's exactly why I've launched the podcast collective.

[00:22:54] Ultimate solution designed to empower executives, founders,

[00:22:59] and thought leaders in the fitness, health and wellness sectors.

[00:23:01] Our mission?

[00:23:02] To help you leverage the extraordinary opportunities within our handpicked

[00:23:05] network of independent podcasts.

[00:23:08] We don't just place you on podcasts, we make you unforgettable.

[00:23:12] One-on-one coaching ensures that you show up the right message

[00:23:14] for the right audience with confidence and swagger.

[00:23:17] We create eye-popping digital assets and social media overhauls

[00:23:21] to ensure that you are optimizing each and every appearance.

[00:23:25] Key introductions to strategic partners and potential enterprise clients

[00:23:28] provide unparalleled value that only a professional network like ours can offer.

[00:23:33] We work with a very limited number of clients to ensure the highest level

[00:23:37] of service so please don't hesitate to reach out and learn more.

[00:23:40] Go to podcastcollective.io to learn more and contact me directly.

[00:23:45] That's podcastcollective.io.

[00:23:51] Yeah, okay, so we talked about those two major things but what are we missing?

[00:23:55] What are some of the major trends or advancements

[00:23:58] that may be flying under the radar because these two things are taking such a

[00:24:03] huge portion of awareness?

[00:24:06] Yeah, I think in-club technology is something that we're missing.

[00:24:10] Right, and so how can you leverage technology inside the four walls of your facility

[00:24:15] to capture more data around member usage and patterns?

[00:24:19] You can sort of think about this with beacon technology, integration to wearables,

[00:24:25] digital signage that's interactive.

[00:24:27] The idea is to again enhance the member experience, increase revenue,

[00:24:32] increase staff productivity.

[00:24:34] Those are the goals of technology for a gym in my view.

[00:24:37] So digital signage is something that fast casual restaurants and airlines have been,

[00:24:42] and when I say digital signage, screens inside of clubs.

[00:24:46] They've been doing it for a long time, whether it's the airline kiosk that you use to check

[00:24:51] in or print your boarding pass, or the menu board that you now select your fast food order on

[00:24:58] when you go into a fast casual restaurant.

[00:25:02] I think there's lots of opportunities to leverage that tech inside of clubs.

[00:25:06] One of the most obvious ones to me outside of selling memberships at the front desk

[00:25:11] and eliminating commission payments to salespeople.

[00:25:14] I know that's not always a popular position but it's the reality.

[00:25:17] And I think in these days where we're trying to control operating expenses,

[00:25:22] it's something that people should look at.

[00:25:25] But one of the other use cases is having interactive kiosks outside of group exercise

[00:25:29] studios so that a member can walk in and by virtue of walking past the kiosk,

[00:25:33] either with an integrated camera or an RSID or some sort of an NFC communication with

[00:25:39] their phone being able to track what class they're in, how many people are there.

[00:25:43] That's a really manual process right now.

[00:25:45] So in-club tech, I think is a huge opportunity.

[00:25:50] Integrations to wearables is another one.

[00:25:53] If you have beacon technologies and integrations to watches,

[00:25:56] you can start to look at heat mapping your club so that you know where to put

[00:26:01] the next piece of equipment that might be valuable for folks.

[00:26:05] So I think there's a lot of opportunity but generally in-club technology is something

[00:26:10] I'm excited about.

[00:26:11] Yeah, I love that.

[00:26:13] One of the things I want to ask you about and what I see too is as gym equipment evolves,

[00:26:18] like I think about the smart side of things like the e-gym and techno gym,

[00:26:23] of course at the forefront of really having smart technologies in the gym which is unlocking

[00:26:26] new data.

[00:26:27] I'll look at something like produce motion which is unlocking completely new sets of data

[00:26:32] that we never had before.

[00:26:33] When you look at the data game for people like myself who aren't as a depth to how

[00:26:39] data can actually be applied in useful ways.

[00:26:42] I mean you mentioned a few with the wearables but what about those particular data sets?

[00:26:47] Like how can those at high levels of value to the industry?

[00:26:51] Well, look if you take those data sets and it's difficult to sort of spitball this stuff.

[00:26:55] I think the idea here is let's figure out if there are questions that an operator has

[00:27:00] with regard to their business because the data is there.

[00:27:03] It's a matter of taking that data, putting it in a store that allows you to access it

[00:27:08] in meaningful ways.

[00:27:09] And there's a lot of companies that have done some really interesting work around this

[00:27:12] in our space and then using that data to answer the business question.

[00:27:17] So for example, if you want to know, and by the way the business question could be

[00:27:21] how many miles does my average treadmill last before I have to get maintenance on it

[00:27:26] and not have any downtime?

[00:27:27] It doesn't have to be member centric questions, it can be anything.

[00:27:31] So it's a tough question to answer because really data, we are a really data rich industry.

[00:27:39] There's a massive amount of data out there but we're not a real information rich industry.

[00:27:45] And there's a distinction there right?

[00:27:46] Because the data is solid.

[00:27:48] So I would just encourage people, the data is there, trust me it's there,

[00:27:52] whether it's in the eGEM systems by the way, it's in the life fitness systems,

[00:27:55] it's at the matrix systems, it's all available for us to extract.

[00:27:58] It's certainly available in wearables, it's certainly available in the member management

[00:28:02] and check-in systems.

[00:28:03] It's all there.

[00:28:05] Find a partner that you think can work effectively with you if you have business

[00:28:09] questions that and they can take all of the ambient data from these various systems,

[00:28:14] mash it up together, can start providing you with answers.

[00:28:18] Yeah, awesome.

[00:28:19] And a slight shift of the conversation here, I want to talk about industry events.

[00:28:23] Obviously you've been doing this for quite some time.

[00:28:26] As we were talking before recording, I just feel like there's change in the air.

[00:28:30] You know kind of the typical trade floor type event seems to be getting less and less popular,

[00:28:35] seeing a kind of a decline in that.

[00:28:38] But people do crave in-person events.

[00:28:41] There seems to be more popping up right?

[00:28:43] I mean we have, I don't know, the type industry events I went to eight years ago

[00:28:47] are very different than the ones I go to now.

[00:28:49] Now I go for more business before I went for coaching and gym ownership,

[00:28:53] specific what I need.

[00:28:54] So when you look at kind of the evolution of industry events,

[00:28:58] like what are some of the things that you're noticing now and how are you guys looking to

[00:29:01] meet the needs of the new I guess consumer demands?

[00:29:06] Well look, I think our event, the Fitness Technology Summit is a good example.

[00:29:10] People come to it because it's not just a trade show.

[00:29:14] There's lots of elements of education, research, networking.

[00:29:19] And those are the things that are in relationship building.

[00:29:21] I think that's what we have been able to duplicate at our event every year.

[00:29:26] And I think that organizations like FISA and Cybeck are doing similar things.

[00:29:32] I do think there's still a really nice opportunity for organizations like the

[00:29:39] Health and Fitness Association, formerly URSA, to run their event because I think it's great

[00:29:45] to have everyone in the industry come together.

[00:29:48] These smaller events tend to be, or these face-to-face events,

[00:29:52] or I think they're called the buyer sponsored events,

[00:29:55] it's the seller sponsored events where the vendors essentially pay my way as a buyer

[00:30:00] to go to these events.

[00:30:02] And those tend to be much more intimate in terms of getting to know somebody.

[00:30:08] But at the end of the day, if you want to take your head of fitness to try out the new

[00:30:13] matrix line of equipment, you're going to have to do that at the URSA conference,

[00:30:20] at the HFA conference.

[00:30:21] So I do think that the smaller events create much more creative opportunities

[00:30:28] for relationship building.

[00:30:29] And then URSA HFA is still where a lot of the business gets done.

[00:30:34] But that's sort of my two cents on that.

[00:30:36] Yeah, yeah, interesting.

[00:30:38] Yeah, I feel like it's getting, there's more options now,

[00:30:40] which can be more specific to what you're looking for.

[00:30:44] Like one of the ones I really enjoyed this year was the Connected Health and Fitness Summit.

[00:30:48] It was the first time I went to that.

[00:30:49] It was curated, smaller.

[00:30:51] Got to talk to a lot of people in the hallways,

[00:30:53] maybe just because I knew a lot of people I enjoyed it.

[00:30:55] But I enjoy URSA too.

[00:30:56] I love playing around with all the recovery aspect.

[00:30:59] I've learned from some people who have gone to these things multiple times

[00:31:03] that you spend the last day doing all the recovery testing

[00:31:05] because your legs are tired.

[00:31:07] So it's a good time to do it.

[00:31:08] It's kind of fun.

[00:31:08] Yeah.

[00:31:10] So you, I think it was 2020 you said you sold.

[00:31:14] So motion soft, right?

[00:31:15] And then you started now the Ulta Technology Group.

[00:31:19] What is that?

[00:31:21] Give us some insights.

[00:31:22] So what are you up to right now?

[00:31:23] Yeah, so Ulta Technology Group is a boutique management consulting shop for

[00:31:30] what I'll call health, beauty, wellness businesses.

[00:31:33] So consumer service businesses that are in that, in those sort of segments.

[00:31:37] It really started out just as a little side gig for me.

[00:31:42] I get calls from organizations that would ask me to do a contract review

[00:31:46] or provide them with some insight into what software application they should pick.

[00:31:52] And it's sort of snowballed and we started to have a lot of large organizations calling me

[00:31:57] and asking me to come help them put together an RFP or an RFI,

[00:32:01] which by the way, if you're selecting software and you're doing it by just simply

[00:32:06] a sales demo, you're missing the boat.

[00:32:09] And this has become more and more apparent to me as I have continued to grow Ulta where

[00:32:14] my partner, Tara Levin and I have grown the business now to six or seven folks

[00:32:19] and we're doing work for some of the largest health and fitness,

[00:32:22] some of the best brands in the fitness industry.

[00:32:24] And I think we bring a lot of value.

[00:32:26] I have to say it is fun to sit across the table from all my old competitors

[00:32:30] because I know some of the tricks.

[00:32:34] And that's been a lot of fun for me anyway.

[00:32:36] And maybe a brap's off for them.

[00:32:38] But I think that as technology, as we talked about earlier,

[00:32:43] as technology has gained more of a foothold,

[00:32:45] having folks that are experts in it on your team is pretty critical.

[00:32:51] And so that's what we do.

[00:32:53] So we've got that part of the business and then we've got our events business.

[00:32:56] Now on the events business, we're actually doing conferences and events,

[00:33:00] including the fitness technology summit for folks in the industry.

[00:33:03] So we've got, we work with some corporate folks that we put on their annual events.

[00:33:09] We work with some franchise companies and we work with some software companies

[00:33:12] to put their events on similar to what I was doing when I was at MotionSoft.

[00:33:16] Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.

[00:33:17] Sounds like you're having a lot of fun.

[00:33:19] Yeah. It's been a blast.

[00:33:21] I wasn't planning on working quite this hard after selling MotionSoft,

[00:33:24] but it has been fun.

[00:33:26] Yeah. That's great.

[00:33:28] You know what I kind of look at some, I've always loved having someone like you on here

[00:33:33] and getting some insights on things like this.

[00:33:34] But I want to go back to AI again.

[00:33:39] So a lot of people talked about, there's a lot of concern,

[00:33:42] I think all over the world in every industry about, hey, AI is going to affect

[00:33:46] particular occupations within an industry.

[00:33:49] I think for our industry, personal trainers are a little concerned, but we're,

[00:33:54] you know, may put a time horizon on this 2030.

[00:34:01] And we have no idea.

[00:34:02] Everything seems to be advancing so much faster than we thought.

[00:34:05] But who should be planning for some change in their lives?

[00:34:09] Do you think?

[00:34:10] Who should be a little bit concerned?

[00:34:12] Who should be looking to leverage?

[00:34:14] What kind of maybe heads up can you give our industry right now?

[00:34:19] You know, I, any time in the last 50 years you could have gone,

[00:34:23] bought a book on what to eat.

[00:34:25] You could have gone and bought a book on how to exercise.

[00:34:28] You could have done all these types of things.

[00:34:30] And if you had stuck to it, you would have succeeded.

[00:34:33] The reality is that as social creatures,

[00:34:37] I think we need more than just a list of things to do.

[00:34:41] I mean, I know inherently that if I go for a five mile walk every day,

[00:34:45] I will see results and yet I don't do it.

[00:34:48] I think personal trainers, while I understand that there may be this initial,

[00:34:53] this initial sort of concern that they are going to get replaced by AI,

[00:34:58] I think it's somewhat misfounded.

[00:35:00] I'm not sure I fully believe it.

[00:35:02] And there could be a small population of people that sort of embrace it

[00:35:05] and start to implement them and get rid of their trainers.

[00:35:08] But at the end of the day, having somebody who is standing behind you

[00:35:11] and sort of encouraging you and advising you in real time as to what you should be doing,

[00:35:17] how you should be doing it and keeping you accountable.

[00:35:20] Because the reality is that a computer is not going to keep you accountable.

[00:35:24] I think that the trainers are safe, to be honest.

[00:35:28] I do think the trainers should embrace what is out there

[00:35:32] and incorporate AI into their routines.

[00:35:36] And I think that the new products and new technologies are going to come

[00:35:39] that are going to enable people to do that.

[00:35:41] So for example, if I'm a personal training client and I am traveling,

[00:35:47] and I'm in my hotel and I want to do my training regimen,

[00:35:51] having an AI-based application that ensures that form on a bench press is right,

[00:35:55] I think it's powerful.

[00:35:56] I think that's helpful.

[00:35:57] It's still not going to keep me accountable,

[00:35:59] but perhaps it'll stop me from hurting myself.

[00:36:01] And so I think that we tend to be in this industry,

[00:36:05] technophobes and we don't necessarily adopt things.

[00:36:07] And sometimes that's good, ID what? 2.0?

[00:36:09] And sometimes not so much.

[00:36:12] And so my sense is that there are ways to incorporate AI into our businesses

[00:36:17] without compromising our staff.

[00:36:21] And that's the direction that I hope it goes.

[00:36:24] Yeah. I'm trying to remember who I had.

[00:36:27] I think it was Dr. Ted Vicki.

[00:36:29] I had a conversation with him and he's really big on using

[00:36:33] gen AI for trainers and getting them educated.

[00:36:36] But I agree with what he said was AI is not going to take over

[00:36:41] personal training, but personal trainers who use AI will.

[00:36:45] And I think that's a really good perspective on it.

[00:36:47] You've got to be adopted.

[00:36:48] I look at this early when wearables start coming out

[00:36:52] and people are saying, at first I had my clients coming to me

[00:36:55] and they're like, hey, what do I do with this Fitbit information?

[00:36:57] And I was like, well, I'm not really sure yet.

[00:37:01] But everyone as a trainer should get a wearable and start using it

[00:37:06] and start getting an idea of just familiarity with the technology

[00:37:10] so you don't get completely blindsided when you have these conversations.

[00:37:13] But yeah, I'm curious.

[00:37:14] I can tell you have something to say there.

[00:37:15] Yeah. Well, we're a pretty smart species.

[00:37:17] Right? People were having this exact same conversation

[00:37:19] when the Cotton Gem came out.

[00:37:22] And rewind the clock 25 years.

[00:37:26] Did you ever think that there was going to be a bunch of people

[00:37:28] running around taking pictures of themselves,

[00:37:30] putting them up on social media sites and making millions of dollars a year?

[00:37:34] Influencers, where do they come from?

[00:37:36] And so I think that we'll figure out how to leverage AI in a way

[00:37:38] that's accretive to our overall species and economies, et cetera.

[00:37:45] And it will continue to grow.

[00:37:48] I'm not worried.

[00:37:49] Yeah. Well, I think it's actually quite necessary

[00:37:51] and not to get into too big of a conversation here.

[00:37:55] But we're seeing a very steady drop in birth rates across the world.

[00:37:59] And eventually, we're going to have a smaller workforce.

[00:38:02] And AI seems pretty timely to come in and help with the work

[00:38:06] that we may just don't have people to do.

[00:38:09] I don't know if people are aware of that or not,

[00:38:11] but that's kind of the reality of things.

[00:38:12] That's a point.

[00:38:15] Last question.

[00:38:17] What piece of technology has you the most excited right now?

[00:38:22] Well, going back to that whole sort of integration

[00:38:24] or convergence of healthcare and health club,

[00:38:27] I really think some of the work that folks like InBody or Delay,

[00:38:30] Saku, those companies that give you as a consumer information

[00:38:35] that you would otherwise only be able to get into a doctor's office.

[00:38:38] And I love the fact that those companies are now inside of clubs.

[00:38:42] Because really what I would love to see,

[00:38:44] I would love to see gyms and fitness facilities and studios

[00:38:47] become the trusted source of wellness in people's lives.

[00:38:50] Because I think that we can be, whether it's nutrition,

[00:38:54] body fat, exercise, sleep, recovery, fill in the blank.

[00:39:00] We can fill that void because right now it's coming from 100 different apps

[00:39:03] and 100 different sources.

[00:39:06] So that's what I'm really excited about.

[00:39:08] I love this.

[00:39:09] I love what's happening there.

[00:39:10] And all the insurance and all the other stuff aside, right?

[00:39:13] That's all sort of the gravy, if you will.

[00:39:16] Just the information that we can give consumers is pretty powerful.

[00:39:20] Yeah. Well, I think one of the greatest things I'm really excited about

[00:39:23] is that this whole shift to longevity, not because it's a buzzword,

[00:39:27] but it changes the consumer's mindset from like,

[00:39:31] hey, this is something I need to do for eight weeks to lose 20 pounds,

[00:39:35] or to get ready for my wedding or whatever it may be to like,

[00:39:39] no, this is actually what you do for life.

[00:39:40] This is it.

[00:39:42] Right? This is part of the formula.

[00:39:43] Yeah. I read something about lifespan versus health span.

[00:39:46] And I think it's a pretty powerful statement, right?

[00:39:49] I mean, you can live a long life, but live miserably for the last 20 years,

[00:39:54] or you can live a long life and have that last 20 years be comfortable.

[00:39:59] And I think that's where we fit in.

[00:40:01] Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

[00:40:03] So people wanted to go to Fitness Technology Summit.

[00:40:08] I think the website is just Fitness Technologies.

[00:40:09] What is the website and the information on that?

[00:40:11] Yeah. So it's an invitation only event at this point.

[00:40:14] We are fully sold out as far as sponsors and vendors in the space go.

[00:40:21] We keep it very tight.

[00:40:22] Thank you.

[00:40:23] We have a few tickets remaining.

[00:40:25] And if people send me a note, al.

[00:40:28] at getalta.com, G-E-T-A-L-T-A.com

[00:40:32] and mention that they heard about this through your podcast, Eric.

[00:40:38] I'm happy to extend them a discounted ticket.

[00:40:40] Awesome. Awesome. Appreciate that, Al.

[00:40:43] Yeah. Always a pleasure.

[00:40:45] And I'm going to see if I can make it out there in October.

[00:40:48] It sounds like I haven't been to Vegas in a long time, so it's having a great...

[00:40:53] Al, it's always a pleasure, man.

[00:40:59] I really enjoy it.

[00:41:00] I, like I said, I value and respect your insights here.

[00:41:03] You're one of the true OGs in this Fitness Technology space.

[00:41:08] So yeah, really great.

[00:41:10] Ladies and gentlemen, Al Nortstrabani.

[00:41:12] Thanks, Eric. Good to see you.

[00:41:15] Hey, wait. Don't leave yet.

[00:41:17] This is your host, Eric Malzone.

[00:41:19] And I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Feminist.

[00:41:22] If you did, I'm going to ask you to do three simple things.

[00:41:26] It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way.

[00:41:29] We really appreciate it.

[00:41:30] Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it.

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[00:41:54] Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me,

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[00:42:00] You can subscribe to our newsletter there

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[00:42:08] This is Eric Malzone

[00:42:09] and this is the future of Finesse.

[00:42:10] Have a great day.