Sal Di Stefano - Mind Pump Media

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[00:02:20] All right, we are live. Sal to Stefano. Welcome to the future of fitness my friend.

[00:02:25] Eric thank you so much for having me on great conversation before we started recording

[00:02:29] here too. This will be a fun one. Yeah, yeah, Hale to San Jose California. That's where

[00:02:33] our roots are man. It's cool to hear that and I can almost tell just by the last name

[00:02:37] in the way I hear you talk like I know there's no Northern California accent. I think

[00:02:40] it's actually void of accent which makes me characteristic but it was cool to hear that

[00:02:44] as well and this is a salad is a real treat for me. You know, I think as a podcaster see

[00:02:50] the work you guys have done at mine pump the work you put in the type of guess you have

[00:02:55] the reach and impact that you guys have created in the world so I'd imagine when you stop

[00:03:00] and think about it you should be pretty darn proud of what you guys have done and it's

[00:03:03] just really cool to get you on as a podcaster so thanks for doing this.

[00:03:07] I appreciate that. It's been a just an incredibly blessed and humbling experience. I mean none

[00:03:14] of us really were seeking to be media you know anything really. It was just a means

[00:03:19] to an end and the way it took off and the people we've been able to meet has just been phenomenal

[00:03:24] and it's wild. I get to talk about my favorite subject and get paid to do it and then

[00:03:29] people send me free supplements on top of it so it's amazing.

[00:03:34] Okay, so this is funny. I mean the free stuff I didn't expect that either. This

[00:03:38] is my seventh year like last night. This is a funny. Have you tried EMS suits yet? No,

[00:03:44] I haven't tried that. So I'm testing one catalyst. Kels with a K and I got it yesterday

[00:03:52] and I you know video like the unboxing and all that stuff and I put it on I was doing

[00:03:56] it. My wife comes upstairs as we're where Jim is and she stops and I'm wearing this

[00:04:02] black suit with electric buyers and everything and she literally spits her water out and

[00:04:06] starts laughing hysterically like what is going on? I'm like, I don't really know but this

[00:04:11] is gonna be cool. Anyways that you know shout out to catalysts. I get to try stuff like

[00:04:14] that's it's it's a pretty unexpected benefit of the journey. Yeah, it's been a blessing

[00:04:19] in the curse for me. I have a not the best relationship with supplements. It's like

[00:04:23] a dysfunctional relationship I developed as a kid and now I get free supplements so you

[00:04:28] know I don't know. Yeah great. That's funny. Let's start with this. I know we kind

[00:04:32] of diving into it but if you don't mind for people who in our industry who aren't yet

[00:04:37] familiar which would be weird. Tell us a little about your story and the story of MindPum

[00:04:41] and then we'll take it from there. Yeah I started as a professional in the fitness industry

[00:04:46] really early as soon as I was the gym could hire me I applied so I was 18 years old.

[00:04:50] became a personal trainer very in a very short period of time was managing trainers. By

[00:04:54] the time I was 19 20 I was managing a big box gym so I worked for 24 fitness. I grand

[00:05:00] opened some clubs then I went off and was an entrepreneur and ever since I'd say I think

[00:05:06] I was 23 I've worked for myself. I owned a wellness studio trainers and you know acupuncturist

[00:05:13] massage therapist that kind of stuff up here in the Bay area in fact and just loved it love

[00:05:17] doing it. Love helping people, loved learning about health and fitness also personally I was

[00:05:24] just a fanatic about it and then I met a while I had a client named Doug's our producer so

[00:05:29] I met Doug and him and I became friends and he convinced me to launch an online digital workout

[00:05:35] program. And then we talked to Adam and Justin who are co-hosts I knew of Adam because he was a

[00:05:41] high performer at 24 fitness back in the day when I was so I just knew of the name and you know

[00:05:46] long story short we connected online and immediately hit it off and Adam Justin myself sat down had

[00:05:54] a conversation that lasted for four hours our first time sitting down was just a four-hour conversation

[00:05:59] about everything that's right and wrong with the fitness industry and the business of it and how

[00:06:04] we would do things different or frustrations and we just it was amazing. It was just a great

[00:06:10] conversation like I said four hours felt like 30 minutes in fact Adam's wife then girlfriend

[00:06:15] was so she was so enthralled by she recorded the whole thing on an iPad and we I think we have

[00:06:21] that recording somewhere and that was it we decided to start a podcast Doug had the equipment he

[00:06:25] was not in the space he was a he sold insurance but he as a hobby liked you know producing stuff

[00:06:32] and so he had all the recording equipment and we launched a mine pump and in a very short

[00:06:38] period of time it just it exploded in terms of listeners and rankings and within about a year

[00:06:44] we decided to monetize all of us have families and other businesses so we waited quite a bit

[00:06:50] then we decided to monetize and then the writing was on the wall like this is this is our business

[00:06:55] this is what we need to do this is not only are we passionate about this that the potential in the

[00:06:59] space is massive and that's it we did a full time and we've been doing it ever since.

[00:07:03] And wait a year was that so? Oh god it's been nine years Doug when did we start mine pump

[00:07:10] about nine years ago yeah so I got that right so we started then and you know now we're

[00:07:15] you know we'll get close to 10 million listens and views a month and it's just it's climbing and it's

[00:07:21] it's it's incredibly rewarding it's almost as rewarding as personal training was personal training

[00:07:27] I'd say probably a little more rewarding because you got to really work with people and meet with them

[00:07:31] but it's it's close but the impact is just it's it's massive and it's been it's been incredible

[00:07:38] we had a lot of fun doing it. Yeah man I mean that is impressive in 2000 I just checked

[00:07:42] 2270 episodes I mean that's that's work man yeah you know we're big number. You know why

[00:07:49] we did that it's so funny we're such fitness guys right so if you want to get better at a skill

[00:07:56] or an exercise the best way to do it is to practice it often just practice it often

[00:08:00] when we got started with the podcast none of us had media experience at all I mean we'd run

[00:08:06] gyms and own fitness businesses and been entrepreneurs but none of us had been on camera

[00:08:10] none of us had recorded our voices doing a show and so we knew we sucked I mean it's just to

[00:08:17] be straight up we knew however awesome we thought we were and there is definitely a level of

[00:08:22] narcissism that comes with being able to do this where you kind of think you're better than the average

[00:08:25] guy there's also the element of realism which is yeah I think we're awesome but we probably do suck

[00:08:30] we've never done this before so let's do this as often as possible and let's get good quickly

[00:08:35] and so we decided to do five episodes a week and it's you know yes it's five episodes a week but

[00:08:41] we're talking about things that we've talked about for you know I did this this is not 25 years I've

[00:08:45] been in the space so it's not hard for me to talk about health and fitness you know for five episodes

[00:08:51] a week for nine years I could do it for another 30 years and it won't be a problem so we just

[00:08:54] piece that together it's like you know however bad we are now will be that much better if we do more

[00:09:00] episodes and so we just took that approach yeah it's I think it's the only approach I mean people who

[00:09:05] comes to me and they're interested in starting a podcast I was telling this is like a five-year

[00:09:08] project minimum minimum just pick a cadence that you can do for five years right and just start

[00:09:13] executing I do you ever go back and listen to like the first 50 episodes I you know I have it in

[00:09:20] a while because it's so you know what reminds me of you know when you're like like like 17 years old

[00:09:26] and then your mom and dad pull up a video when you were like 13 and awkward and you're like

[00:09:30] ah turn it off I don't want to see that right so maybe maybe in 20 years I'll be able to listen

[00:09:35] to those first episodes and finally remember but now when I listen to them I just it's so cringy

[00:09:40] it's so painful to hear just how bad we were at media what we were good at to our credit was

[00:09:45] communicating fitness I mean because we had practiced effectively communicating health and fitness

[00:09:51] to people for two decades like we had learned through trial and error how to communicate fat loss

[00:09:56] muscle building recovery you name it in the realm of health and fitness in ways where it got people

[00:10:01] to change their behaviors so what you heard in those early days was great fitness communication

[00:10:07] terrible media guys so what's changed now is we're better at the media park yeah well yeah you are

[00:10:13] you are much better and one thing about your story uh because I I've actually no no disrespect to

[00:10:20] any of my first 20 episodes or the interviews that I had for them but I go back like they're good

[00:10:25] friends but I go back like god uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh

[00:10:29] nobody and listen to those anymore in your story there's one thing I want to unpack a little bit

[00:10:33] because you you mentioned that you owned a wellness studio yeah back then that would have been kind

[00:10:39] of a weird thing to say now it's like ubiquitous right like yeah how did you how did that happen

[00:10:45] so I've always been a better trainer for my clients than I was for myself and the reason why I'm

[00:10:50] saying that is uh you know I really paid close attention to what was helping people and what was

[00:10:55] really working as a trainer and now at the time when I first opened my wellness studio uh I don't

[00:11:01] know how it's 23 and I was a meet head at that point okay in the sense that I understood strength

[00:11:07] training cardio proteins fats carbs calories and that's it like that was the scope of my knowledge

[00:11:15] and I was decent at it but that was it like anything outside of that you know gut health hormone

[00:11:20] health sleep you know wellness related so whatever I had no idea you know food quality whatever

[00:11:27] I had no idea right but I was I knew that but I at least did know that the clients that I had

[00:11:32] that worked with acupuncturists or chiropractors or bodywork specialists or my clients that

[00:11:38] meditated on a regular basis or when they would implement things like that I would notice

[00:11:42] an improvement I would notice an improvement in the things that I paid attention to like

[00:11:46] performance and muscle and fat loss not stuff so I knew that it was valuable so I wanted to

[00:11:52] fix my idea then was in really as we here as communicate on the show right my my concept was

[00:11:57] I would like a space that has the strength training has the fat loss component has the cardio but also

[00:12:04] has the bodywork specialist that has people to understand wellness from a you know spiritual health

[00:12:10] standpoint that understands erivetic medicine maybe some Chinese medicine gut health this was a

[00:12:16] completely new concept at the time at least for me but I mean we're talking you know 15 years ago more

[00:12:23] actually a lot more than that 20 years ago nobody was talking about over 20 years ago nobody was

[00:12:28] talking about gut health but I had known enough to know that people had seen value in it so I brought

[00:12:33] these people in to my studio and I wanted it to be a place where you know you had different modalities

[00:12:38] in different ways to to help yourself and what I learned through that process was just the 14

[00:12:44] or 15 years I own that place I learned so much just from watching these practitioners you know I could

[00:12:51] I could it was a small studio which was so so amazing looking back right because I got to be so close

[00:12:57] to these people in a sense that like they would be across the room just right there and I would hear

[00:13:01] what they were communicating and what they were looking at and you know the signs that they

[00:13:05] were looking for and then we would share clients when I realized like wow this is really valuable let's

[00:13:09] let's start working together and the clients that we share just got wait just just light years of

[00:13:14] better results than the clients that didn't you know work with these other practitioners and I'd

[00:13:20] watch them and listen and learn and ask questions and then through my own struggles I had some my

[00:13:24] own health issues gut health issues in particular and what I learned from that so it was amazing it was

[00:13:31] it was like the best education I could ever ask for in the health and fitness space just from working

[00:13:35] with these you know incredible people so it was it was really really good time wasn't the best

[00:13:39] money making time owning a gem or being in that service type of business as if anybody who's

[00:13:44] owned a gem I know you have yeah I mean that's a that's like you got to love it you got to love it

[00:13:49] it's not it's not tech and it's not finance you know yeah I mean one of the reasons I I sold my

[00:13:55] gems for numerous reasons but one of them was like I kind of came into the realization I'm like

[00:13:58] you know I don't think I'm ever going to make money I want to make being a gem over that was

[00:14:03] top because I did love it you know it was a hard thing to kind of let go of in what a interview is

[00:14:09] I was listening to this morning when I was prepping for the sal I heard you say a quote and it was

[00:14:14] kind of the mission I guess of mine pump was to communicate health of fitness in an effective way

[00:14:18] with integrity no and it stuck out to me I wrote it down I was because it implies that statement

[00:14:23] applies that maybe sometimes it's not done with integrity right but it's not done effectively

[00:14:28] so you what does that when you say that like what does that mean to you what's kind of in your heart

[00:14:33] when you say it well we got to flip that and put integrity first because the rest will make sense okay

[00:14:38] so I don't think I'm going to shock anybody who's listening to this right now when I say that the

[00:14:43] health and fitness industry which encompasses the weight loss and the diet and the supplement

[00:14:49] you know and pill industry and all that right so that whole industry I don't think I'm

[00:14:52] shocking anybody when I say that 90% of it is absolute complete garbage terrible doesn't work

[00:14:59] is praying on your insecurities and is probably making things worse okay I think everybody knows

[00:15:05] that by now it's been around long enough to you know maybe 40 years ago you could fool somebody but

[00:15:09] now people are like okay you know this there's a lot of bad information that's why we started the

[00:15:14] podcast so integrity is telling the truth what really works and what works in a way that that that is

[00:15:21] meaningful in the sense that you want to lose 30 pounds can you lose 30 pounds in a way to where

[00:15:27] you're for sure going to gain it back you can is there a way to lose 30 pounds where we keep it off

[00:15:31] forever yes that's the one I'm going to communicate that's integrity because I care about the fact

[00:15:37] that you want to get something you want to improve your health but you want to do so in a permanent

[00:15:41] way you're not just trying to change yourself so you can go back to where you were before or worse

[00:15:46] so that's the integrity I'm talking about telling the truth in a way where as a practitioner as a

[00:15:52] trainer as a coach like I'm doing this you know I'm going to communicate what's best okay now

[00:15:58] here comes now here's the other part the effective way the effective part like communicating effectively

[00:16:02] it's easier to convince people to pursue health and fitness the wrong way than it is to do

[00:16:09] the right way because I can lie right I can say to you you know take this pill fall this diet

[00:16:14] do this workout program and lose 30 pounds in 30 days right like I could say that and that sounds

[00:16:18] to somebody who's desperate to somebody who's really coming to grips with their health

[00:16:22] or who just felt terrible you know self-esteem because they saw a picture or whatever

[00:16:28] like yeah like that's a luring to hear that like and I'm going to capitalize on that if I

[00:16:32] just want to sell you a garbage and just sell it quick I have to find on me okay host of mind pump

[00:16:37] I am trying to find ways to communicate as effectively or more effectively with the right message now

[00:16:43] what's the right message all right you want to lose 30 pounds gonna take you a year okay well how do I

[00:16:47] say that how do I sell that better than the other guy that's the problem the problem is that right

[00:16:54] there and so that's what we that is really what we study and work on and think about like how

[00:17:00] can we sell the right way better than these guys are selling the wrong way so I'll give you an

[00:17:06] example this is a something I've said you know probably said it I first said it maybe seven years

[00:17:11] it's gotten viral many many times but it was something I would say to clients because

[00:17:17] I realized when I first was able to communicate this it worked it was really the only

[00:17:22] only ways that or ways I could say what I'm about to say that where it got people to adopt it and

[00:17:27] that's this right if you chase aesthetics if your goal is just to look better and that's all

[00:17:32] you focus on you will compromise your health and when your health declines so does your aesthetics in

[00:17:37] other words if you chase looks you lose your health and you lose your looks okay if you chase

[00:17:42] health you'll get healthier the side effect of which being you look better so chasing health

[00:17:47] you'll get a great deal of health and looks now to somebody who just cares about how they look when

[00:17:53] they hear that I've sold them oh wow so what you're telling me is not the other way is not just

[00:17:58] the wrong way I'm not going to get any results doing it that way I'm gonna get better results

[00:18:03] doing it the way that you're saying that's why that's you know that's that's that's an example

[00:18:08] of communicating effectively so when you when you say that too and maybe this is this is probably

[00:18:13] gonna branch into the overall state of the fitness industry and wellness industry as we may call

[00:18:18] it but selling that right selling the long game right selling the one year like and I'm dude I'm

[00:18:25] just as guilty as any male I saw the ton of six week challenges right I just did it's help keep

[00:18:30] the lights on you know to be honest with you but the that that truth is hard to sell right let's

[00:18:36] hard to productize over time so I mean maybe in recent years have I've seen it but I want to hear

[00:18:41] from you like if you start to see an evolution where people are starting to sell the right thing

[00:18:46] with the right messaging like what where do you think we stand right now the problem is is that

[00:18:52] there's this false belief that there's the fast way and then there's the slow way and in the slow

[00:18:58] way I'm more likely to keep my results it's more likely to maintain you know it to be sustainable

[00:19:05] then people when they hear that they think well I'm gonna try the fast way and then I'm gonna

[00:19:08] contend with keeping these results once I get there how many times have you heard that right I'll

[00:19:12] lose the weight and I'll figure out how to keep it off when I get there that's false that's that's

[00:19:16] that's not the right context it's actually not what it is there's the fast there's the there's

[00:19:21] there's the the right way and then there's the wrong way in other words there's only one way there's

[00:19:26] only one way to get more fit and healthy in a way that you that that actually matters which is

[00:19:33] that it that you keep it there's only one way to do it look the data by the way on this is clear

[00:19:37] 90% of people who lose weight every year gain it back okay and that so what does that mean

[00:19:42] that does that means we don't have a weight loss problem we have a keep the weight off problem

[00:19:46] and that's just weight right we're not even looking at other metrics so there is there is no

[00:19:51] there is no fast or slow there's there's yes or no there's like the right way and then the wrong

[00:19:56] way and that's that's what we need to communicate and that's telling the truth and if we do that then

[00:20:01] people realize they're there really isn't another choice there's there's really only I mean there's

[00:20:06] only one way to build a house and that's my start starting with the foundation like I could tell you

[00:20:10] I'll I'll build it twice as fast with no foundation but am I building you a house now I'm not right so

[00:20:16] at we have to be honest the problem is is that you know it's it look it's a market the industries

[00:20:23] a market like any market and it's and the consumers run it consumers tell you what direction

[00:20:29] you're gonna go and you know markets are great because they're the most efficient way of

[00:20:33] allocating resources and they do they do they produce incredible things but the drawback to markets

[00:20:39] is that the problem with the market it's that it gives us what we want and not what we need so and

[00:20:43] what do people want they want fast easy no you know struggle you know whatever so what happens

[00:20:49] the market starts to morph itself is lie in twists itself many get people in the space that

[00:20:55] lack integrity or whatever or maybe you get you know people with body dysmorphia themselves which

[00:21:00] a great percentage of people in the fitness space have body dysmorphia so they're you're hearing

[00:21:04] a dysfunctional person communicate to you what's effective uh you know when in reality they're

[00:21:09] even though they may look ripped they're far from healthy um so you know that's what happens so

[00:21:15] our goal is you know how can we get the consumer to want the right thing and that means we're

[00:21:20] gonna have to we have to really figure out how to communicate effectively I mean look uh

[00:21:24] and we give this away we talk about this all time so people could I don't care other people could

[00:21:28] try this same approach or whatever but you know when i was a trainer to be an effective trainer

[00:21:33] there's a lot of components being an effective trainer but the number one

[00:21:37] trait of an effective trainer and i mean effective in the sense that your clients get good results

[00:21:43] good success you also have good success you can run a business you could support yourself right so

[00:21:49] all those things right is a great trainer has to be an incredible salesperson and i don't just

[00:21:53] mean selling their products that's part of it but selling ideas like how can I get this person

[00:21:59] to change very hard to change behaviors because these are very hard to change but getting someone

[00:22:03] to change their diet like your diet is such a part of who we are i mean the entire culture like if

[00:22:08] i say mexican food you can picture a culture of food right if i say chinese food if i say breakfast

[00:22:14] foods lunch foods dinner foods foods you take your date out on or a tv dinner like there's entire

[00:22:19] cultures around diet so i'm trying to tell someone to change this fundamental part of themselves

[00:22:25] i have to be able to sell it effectively and then here's another part and this is just again if you

[00:22:30] listen or show you know this i got to get you to keep showing up so that means i got to be good

[00:22:35] i got to give you good workouts that actually work but you also have to come and want to see me

[00:22:40] like there's an entertainment component in the sense that if you're going to if you're going to see

[00:22:44] me for two hours a week one you know two days a week one hour each day for undivided attention

[00:22:50] first off you're probably gonna if you stay with me for three years for i mean i had clients

[00:22:54] with me for 12 years right yeah you stay with a trainer for six months a year whatever twice a

[00:22:59] week for you see that person and talk with them more than most of your family members so you have

[00:23:04] to also be like somebody people want to hang around with right so when you listen to my podcast

[00:23:09] that's why when you hear me introduce the show i call it a fitness and entertainment podcast like

[00:23:16] i'm going to get more people fit and healthy or more people to hear the message the right message

[00:23:21] if you also just like to listen to us right so when you listen to the show there's a strong

[00:23:25] entertainment component but that was all by design i'm trying to get you to want to listen to my show

[00:23:30] and you don't want to like most people that want to just listen to fitness all like no fitness

[00:23:34] fanatics do but most people you know they're like 20 minutes of fitness like figures and they're like

[00:23:37] they'd like to also be entertained yeah yeah it's it's uh it's an excellent point and i've asked this

[00:23:42] question with a lot of people who you know have come up actually coaching like in the trenches right

[00:23:46] of what you know what percentage of six getting clients to be successful and i guess

[00:23:53] therefore being successful in your business as a gym owner or coach is

[00:23:57] creating the environment the soft skills those things right it's not programming necessarily

[00:24:01] sure that's important right it's not nutrition science necessarily that's important but and i

[00:24:06] anywhere ranging really good you know for experts i've asked like anywhere between 60 and 80 percent

[00:24:12] is what they say is the soft skills and the environment that you have right the interpersonal skills

[00:24:17] and i think that's truly and sales is important too i just contributed to the fit guides report about

[00:24:23] what i read through all their data and number one was like we suck at converting sales yeah like

[00:24:28] like getting the money this episode of the future of fitness is brought to you by our friends at

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[00:25:42] future of fitness now on to the show. Like i don't know what it is i mean i came from sales so

[00:25:50] that's probably why i saw a decent amount of success release a gym owner but that's something too

[00:25:54] it's not it's just you're right like all over the place just changing behavior or communicating value

[00:25:59] in a way that people will engage with i think is something that we can do much better. Eric i'm

[00:26:03] gonna again i'll tell you what i just did okay so um a lot of trainers and fitness professionals

[00:26:10] people in the health uh space while in the space they're allergic to sales because uh they

[00:26:17] entered into the space wanting to help people and they have a perception of sales as being like

[00:26:22] manipulative or taking from people or like car salesmen right so i just did this right now look

[00:26:28] i thought to myself how can i convince this one i used to own own gyms how can i convince these

[00:26:33] trainers that sales skills are damn important i need to focus on them oh i know i need to change

[00:26:38] their perception of sales well how do i do that well what are they constantly trying to do their clients

[00:26:43] they're constantly trying to sell their clients on why they need to change their behaviors and habits

[00:26:47] so sales skills is it just asking for money it's actually what you're trying to do all the time

[00:26:52] when you're working with your clients and then life bulbs will go off and the trainers will go yes

[00:26:57] i need to learn sales but i just did what i told you we try to do with the podcast i we got to make

[00:27:02] the message we have to be able to communicate effectively and the only effective means the person

[00:27:06] takes it in and then says i want to do this if they don't do that then it doesn't matter what you

[00:27:11] communicate doesn't matter yeah yeah great point great point the yeah so i had tom down on

[00:27:18] he's the new CEO of f 45 we had a conversation just a few months ago and he came from outside

[00:27:23] the industry right he works with murky morrick and he's a business guy so very interesting lifestyle

[00:27:27] he leads but i asked him you know coming in from outside the industry and looking at what we can

[00:27:31] do better what is it that you see and he's like education right consumer education like most

[00:27:37] people still don't know how to eat right so yeah what i'm getting as i feel like we're having a

[00:27:41] moment right between like you guys mind pump we're seeing the huberman effect after gabriel lines

[00:27:47] like i feel like consumers are becoming more hungry for education about their health and wellness

[00:27:53] do you do you feel that too and and do you think it's starting to to make a dent in

[00:27:58] how our industry is able to actually put together our you know our craftsmanship yeah i do

[00:28:04] and it's mainly because of long form media you know something that was kind of hamstrung the fitness

[00:28:10] base was that most media was really uh kind of short form you know like magazine ads articles but

[00:28:16] you know we're kind of long form issue but the problem with articles were all the fitness magazines

[00:28:21] were really just you know supplement companies that uh we're trying to advertise their product so

[00:28:26] the information in them was geared to sell you know supplements and products so long form

[00:28:33] you know types of media either to sell product let's just talk about selling products

[00:28:38] long form media really didn't exist i mean and there were gatekeepers right if you wanted to talk

[00:28:43] about like fat loss for an hour before podcasting and the internet like how would you do a documentary

[00:28:50] like how's that gonna happen like it's not gonna happen right here on radio show yeah right and then

[00:28:54] but think of all the gatekeepers and all that stuff right like there's no way anybody would have

[00:28:57] given us a radio show you know before you know podcasting existed so now why is it important

[00:29:04] you can't communicate effective health and fitness uh in short form you just can't it's not a

[00:29:10] short form conversation i mean i trained people for years it would take me years to get certain things

[00:29:16] to work and happen and for them to like for to stick and then you know now i haven't trained them

[00:29:20] for years but now it's permanent like they're they now are fit and healthy and they will be for

[00:29:24] the rest of their life right but it's it wasn't a it wasn't an ad it wasn't a short commercial it

[00:29:30] wasn't a product it wasn't like one diet tip so i think the long form uh media has contributed to that

[00:29:37] so now you can listen to a podcast and we could talk about all the nuances of diet we could talk

[00:29:42] all the nuances of fasting or strength training or cardio i mean it's very personal there's so much

[00:29:50] nuances so much individualization when it comes to exercise and diet and sleep and even supplements

[00:29:55] even though those don't make that big of a difference there's still nuance there that uh you need

[00:29:59] long form so i i think that the opening up of the channels has allowed for this to come through

[00:30:06] and people are hearing it and it's it's like wow and it's trickling to the short form

[00:30:11] i'm starting to see reels in short form that is starting to communicate uh more accurately now

[00:30:17] because uh they're they're easily contended with or i saw this you know we started the podcast nine

[00:30:22] years ago there was like a three year period where we would say things and people would be like oh that's

[00:30:27] stupid right or whatever and then you'd see these these means are these reels of the wrong

[00:30:32] information and then people will be like no go listen to episode whatever they talk about the whole

[00:30:36] thing and then you know and then people would listen and so it's little by little we're starting to

[00:30:40] see change the biggest change i'm seeing right now which we've communicated for nine years is

[00:30:45] the shift in attitude towards strength training strength training and i mean i could i could stay on

[00:30:50] here i reckon i could be on here for two hours talking about the data and all that stuff but

[00:30:53] just a long story short and if you want i'll back it up but it's if you have to pick one form

[00:30:58] of exercise okay and you're not going to work out a lot you're gonna work out two days a week

[00:31:02] three days a week and you want what most people want fat loss hormone improvement you know you want

[00:31:07] you want to be able to burn more calories on your own faster metabolism you want to change the

[00:31:11] way you look like they're strength training and then there's everything else like nothing comes

[00:31:14] close it's it's the most even longevity in a time for time basis strength training period and a

[00:31:19] story i mean it wasn't even in the category of longevity health or fat loss 10 years ago let alone

[00:31:25] 20 years ago or more when i started but the attitude towards strength training is totally shifting

[00:31:31] i mean one of the biggest differences that i see i mean i usually work out at home uh or i work

[00:31:37] out here in our studio but lately i've been going to a commercial gym and the the contrast the

[00:31:43] strength training area is now at least 50 percent women at least it's so cool when i ran gyms

[00:31:51] you know back in the late 90s early 2000s like there was like one or two and they were in the corner

[00:31:57] with the two with the one pound dumbbells like they didn't they didn't they maybe use machines

[00:32:01] but they definitely didn't go in the strength training area and the squat rack had dust on it nobody

[00:32:06] used that i mean when i would deadlift in the late 90s early 2000s which is a very stand i mean

[00:32:11] it's a the base strength training exercise i would have members stop me because they'd be like you

[00:32:15] gonna hurt your back what are you doing that's you should be lifting things that way or whatever

[00:32:18] so that's made a huge a huge shift no problem it's made a huge shift so i'm seeing some some

[00:32:26] definite positive of course there's also you know there's more opportunity for crappy information but

[00:32:31] you know i get to get on a podcast now and count it real quick and then we see it go away so it's

[00:32:35] it's i'm positive now do i think it's enough to change the tide uh i don't know man we got a lot

[00:32:42] going against us because simultaneously we're moving less hyper palatable food is becoming a larger

[00:32:49] part of our uh diet and diets have become politicized which they were they were never politicized

[00:32:54] there was always a religious component but they were never politicized so is it enough to beat that

[00:32:59] i don't know we'll see yeah i mean there's a lot i mean the the women in weight training thing

[00:33:03] it's been talked about on this podcast and you know many summits it's it's super exciting man and

[00:33:08] anecdotally like i'll go into my gym here the white fish wave you know uh love them always like to

[00:33:12] shout out to them they do a great job so they recently expanded from two platforms to three and

[00:33:17] it used to be just me back squatting and deadlifting right and now at like i walk in i'm like oh my

[00:33:22] gonna wait after my initial point of just irritation for having to wait i am so happy that people are

[00:33:29] lifting like that and seeing it's not just you know it's young women who are really getting in

[00:33:34] this which is which is really cool and and very exciting i mean maybe just sticking to the topic

[00:33:40] of podcasting again because it's the kind of world i love and living in it seems to be seeing a moment

[00:33:46] right for sure i mean it has been kind of gradually increasing i think popularity in the past few

[00:33:51] years but was there a point in this nine year journey that you guys have had at my and pump where

[00:33:56] you're like i think we're i called escape velocity right where it's like you pump out podcast

[00:34:00] you pump them out you're just doing it like you're just grinding right making it better and all of a

[00:34:05] sudden it seems like i think we're gonna make it uh we're gonna do something significant here i

[00:34:11] maybe i can actually make a living doing this like it's through your journey like two parts of

[00:34:16] this question i guess is when do you feel like maybe you saw escape velocity if you did and then how

[00:34:21] has the rise of podcasting as a medium kind of helped you guys along the way yeah well i remember

[00:34:28] three moments where i felt that uh where i was like wow this is this is this is something is becoming

[00:34:34] something else the first time was very quickly actually we had just launched the podcast we put up

[00:34:40] uh five episodes uh as on our launch and we put them up and then that was it right and at the time

[00:34:46] I own my studio and my partners were all doing other things other businesses and we would meet up

[00:34:51] at night to record these episodes so we dropped them and it must have been it was short it was like a

[00:34:57] week like like five days after we dropped it i'm training a client and my phone is buzzing in my

[00:35:03] pocket and i look at it and it's Adam Adam is my co-host so i you know skip to voicemail put it back

[00:35:08] on my pocket he calls again you know what's going on back to voicemail after the third time i said oh

[00:35:12] this must be an emergency so i said you know please excuse me i go outside i get on the phone i'm

[00:35:16] like hey what's up man i'm with the client right now and he goes go to iTunes so i said okay he

[00:35:21] goes go to new and notable so i went to new and notable this is where they they'll put you know

[00:35:26] highlight podcasts that are doing really well that just started i think it's like the first two

[00:35:29] month period or something like that and there we were we were in the new and notable section on iTunes

[00:35:35] and that was the first time where i was like oh crap like this is like like you know this is this

[00:35:41] may work this may be something that people actually like and listen to the second time was uh

[00:35:47] this was probably i don't know maybe nine or ten months into podcasting so we would meet up once

[00:35:53] a week we'd record a bunch of episodes together till midnight and we'd have a lot of fun doing it

[00:35:57] whatever we put them up and all we had at the time was an Instagram and an email okay and i don't

[00:36:04] know about nine or ten month mark we just kept getting messages and emails from people who were like

[00:36:09] your show was so impactful it's helping me so much is there's is there something i can buy do you

[00:36:14] have a t-shirt do you have a patreon can we don't can i donate money and you know you see one of those

[00:36:20] and it's like oh that's cool you know and then we saw three of them and then ten of them and then

[00:36:24] it's like oh my god like people are like asking us how to give us money now at the time i had already

[00:36:30] put together and developed and we'd already had it done was our first workout program maps and

[00:36:35] a ball look that's that's our flagship workout program dug and i had finished that before we've

[00:36:39] launched the the podcast in fact initially when we started the podcast we thought it might be a

[00:36:44] way to sell the program at some point and it was just like i said it was a project between dug and

[00:36:48] i so we already had that we didn't sell a thing though we wanted to wait to see if we could

[00:36:53] provide enough value to it to our audience where you know okay now we can ask for money but we don't

[00:36:58] want to ask for money right out the gates we wanted to like provide value and see if there's any

[00:37:01] signs well these were pretty clear signs so we said all right let's launch our first workout program

[00:37:06] and let's see what happens and we did and i don't remember what we did that first month but it

[00:37:11] was some stamps like forty thousand dollars of program sales that's and uh yeah yeah and right

[00:37:17] away we were like this is a business like we got a business here you know so i think it was two

[00:37:22] months later we you know i sold my studio and everybody you know stop what they were doing

[00:37:30] as a primary business and we did mine pump full time so that was the second time where i was like oh

[00:37:35] man this is really you know starting to take off the third time was i want to say uh it might have been

[00:37:42] year three or four we went to our first like health convention you know like there's these fitness

[00:37:48] conventions that happen all over you know people know like the Arnold clat there's the Arnold

[00:37:51] classically limpia there's wellness ones that happen as well i don't remember the name of this one

[00:37:55] it was the wellness one in austin that we went to paleo effects thank you very much yes so we

[00:38:00] went to paleo effects it was our first time going to one of these things and we all show up and we're

[00:38:05] getting stopped i mean there's like five groups of five or six people that are following us talking

[00:38:10] to us and i'm like oh my god like this is wild like this like we're really making an impact

[00:38:17] and at at this moment i thought i wonder if this is now a good time to try and find sponsorship

[00:38:22] so i went to all the different vendors introduce myself talk to the owner they said oh i've heard

[00:38:27] of mine pump and i think we got like three or four sponsorships uh right on the spot because

[00:38:32] they had kind of heard of us and also so that was that was a pricing strategy or did you like no you

[00:38:37] know this so you know i i'm so blessed to work with the guys that work with adam is like a business

[00:38:43] just the guy's a business of all and the way he's really revolutionized how in particular how we

[00:38:48] operate with sponsorships at the time it was like the standard formula i don't remember what

[00:38:53] the number was $30 per cpm or something like that back then which is like $30 per thousand downloads

[00:38:58] and and we went off that to start with but we we started off and said we'll do this for three months

[00:39:02] and then after that we'll we'll talk some more because we know we can convert way higher than uh

[00:39:07] than other people and in the way and we knew this because we had sales backgrounds from running gyms

[00:39:12] and all that stuff but also because the way that podcast and a lot of podcasts they'll do commercials

[00:39:16] this way it's a read right you listen to a podcast and it's like you know go check out so-and-so at

[00:39:22] www.com because they're got great products right so read and you know people fast forwarded or

[00:39:27] it's not i mean it's somewhat impactful i mean podcasts i'll be clear it's the highest converting

[00:39:32] medium in new media there's no medium that that converts higher the podcast a lot of it has to do

[00:39:37] with the fact that you know it's a long form people build a relationship they trust you type of deal

[00:39:40] but the way we wanted to do commercials was to integrate it into our conversation so we

[00:39:46] we sought out sponsors or products that we actually used and then i you know i'm a science nerd

[00:39:51] and i could pull up studies to support ingredients or processes or whatever and i could bring that

[00:39:56] up in conversation organically and then mention the product and and that definitely worked we converted

[00:40:03] and we still convert extremely high and you know now Adam uh you know he he put together how we

[00:40:08] manage uh all those sponsorships and it's a major revenue source for us but uh but yeah that was

[00:40:13] in the beginning how we start out was it we said okay we'll go with the standard but after a few

[00:40:16] months we're gonna read we're gonna look at this because we know uh we know we can convert really well

[00:40:20] and really that's at the end of the day that's what matters yeah you know i i think about what

[00:40:24] you guys have done and not that i would change anything in my own journey right but i wish i kind of

[00:40:29] paid attention to total available market like for this podcast i know who listens and i'm super

[00:40:35] grateful i love it's like a community of people that i love seeing events and so thank you everybody

[00:40:39] but i wonder i'm like what if i went to a more larger consumer market like i look at you know stuff like

[00:40:44] i don't know what if you had a podcast about game of thrones right not that i'm passionate about

[00:40:48] game of thrones but imagine like a total available market right and the people will listen to that

[00:40:52] and i did you guys when you're planning it did you consider like okay like those types of things

[00:40:57] tam and you know you know how big the reach could possibly be uh well the name mind pump specifically

[00:41:04] was chosen uh for that reason we didn't want to be pigeonholed into just fitness so mind pump fitness

[00:41:11] is implied but the mind part is kind of like huh is this like about building your mind maybe becoming

[00:41:16] a better person learning new things i mean you can go in a lot of different directions so we wanted

[00:41:22] that uh the ability to go be we don't want to be like you know like fitness pump or bicep pump or

[00:41:29] you know barbell pump or whatever because first off uh as trainers and coaches and gym owners the

[00:41:35] app we worked with the average person i mean we didn't train a majority of our clients weren't like

[00:41:40] high level hardcore athletes or you know competitors or like fitness fanatics it was like the average

[00:41:45] person that's trying to figure out how to integrate fitness into their life they have lots of

[00:41:50] interests they don't live for fitness but they use fitness to live better you know type of deal

[00:41:55] and we're also interested in lots of different things in topics and we wanted the show to be more

[00:41:59] free flowing so so we that's and that's again you hear that on the show right we talk about everything

[00:42:03] our expertise is health and fitness but we talk about everything on the show you know as part of

[00:42:08] that so yeah we didn't want to what's interesting about that is when you start a podcast it's

[00:42:13] easier to gain traction when you pigeonholed yourself but then it's harder to grow so like if you

[00:42:17] started a podcast ten years ago if i started a far podcast was called keto pump ten years ago we

[00:42:24] probably would have had a bigger initial audience because it's a keto like oh i'm searching for keto

[00:42:30] but then it would have screwed us because all right what do i talk about you know just keto all the time

[00:42:35] and i want to go outside of that and then what if i change my mind like what if the data changes

[00:42:40] or whatever so that that's the struggle i think podcasters come up with it's like okay it's good

[00:42:45] you want to be specialized but then how do i not put you know too many boundaries so that if i

[00:42:50] end up growing yeah well i mean uh you guys have definitely grown i mean don't sell do you know

[00:42:54] right jordan piderson yeah i'm recently on the show don't get real lions yet an astronaut who is it

[00:42:59] a like masamino masamino yeah yeah yeah that's fucking cool man those are great gas and i think

[00:43:07] that's the type of conversations and anybody who knows a podcast eventually wants to get to you

[00:43:10] that's the dream right so so i got you for about ten more minutes i want to get into like i never

[00:43:16] do this but i thought it'd be kind of fun more of a hot take type thing right so i'm going to name

[00:43:20] some trends health and wellness trends right and i want to give you maybe just give me like you like

[00:43:25] it you don't like it you're not sure yet and maybe you know a few thoughts on why so first one is uh

[00:43:32] yeah dr. William seeds on glp1 as a category yes okay uh glp1 as a category in terms of medical

[00:43:40] interventions uh it's hands down the most effective least risky across the board medical

[00:43:49] interventions you could do for weight loss that's a fact so if you compare all the medical interventions

[00:43:53] that have ever existed for weight loss glp1 agonist like semagglutide uh they blow them out of the

[00:43:59] water okay here's why however i'm not like it's the panacea using it by itself without a trainer

[00:44:05] without a coach this is what's gonna end up happening while you're on it you'll eat less

[00:44:10] you lose weight when you get off of it you'll eat more you'll gain the way back with a trainer

[00:44:14] or coach you can go on it and what it does is it does make you eat less through some very interesting

[00:44:20] mechanisms but the trainer coach number one's going to make sure you don't lose muscle if you just

[00:44:23] lose weight by the way this is not exclusive to glp1s if you just eat less to lose weight your body

[00:44:28] always loses muscle to try to regulate its metabolism to meet the new lower caloric intake but if you

[00:44:33] do strength training proper strength training and high protein you don't lose muscle in fact you

[00:44:38] often gain muscle while losing body fat in the beginning and then you at the very least you don't

[00:44:42] lose any muscle so a good coach or trainer will teach you how to do that but here's the most

[00:44:46] important part now that we've taken the edge off can we develop new a new relationship with food

[00:44:53] can we develop and work on new behaviors that'll stick beyond the glp1 agonist so i love them

[00:44:59] with a coach with a good trainer on the round it's this is it's going to be on the on on off on

[00:45:06] off is what you're gonna experience nice love it uh next category is longevity i'm going to keep it

[00:45:12] it's too big so i'm going to keep it specific to like hrt haptides you know kind of the chemical

[00:45:17] side of longevity how do you feel about those hrt is amazing if you've exhausted the non intervention

[00:45:26] paths towards optimizing your hormones so if you're a man and you test with low testosterone you have

[00:45:31] the symptoms of low testosterone uh but your sleep is crap like fix your sleep you'll probably

[00:45:36] raise your testosterone right or if you diet is off or exercise or your health is down or whatever

[00:45:41] but if you're doing all those things and there's still symptoms of of of hormone imbalance

[00:45:47] or whatever well medical intervention can definitely improve the quality of your life now can it

[00:45:51] improve improve longevity in some cases yes in some cases yes in other cases no but it'll

[00:45:57] definitely improve the quality you take a man with low testosterone who's living a healthy life

[00:46:02] you put him on testosterone raise it up to a higher level will he live longer uh maybe but he'll

[00:46:06] definitely feel better we'll feel stronger more vigor you know that type of thing so it's like any

[00:46:11] medical intervention depends how you use it and who the person is is uh you know who's who's the

[00:46:16] person that's administering it and coaching the person peptides are remarkable now I thought I

[00:46:21] didn't know what the difference was between a peptide and a drug I thought okay peptide is a chain

[00:46:26] of amino acids but that's kind of a loose definition so growth hormone like so what are we talking

[00:46:31] about here with these peptides peptides are signaling chemicals for lack of better term that already

[00:46:37] exists in the body that your cells use to modulate you know actions or behaviors so scientists have

[00:46:43] identified these and then they synthesize them and then you use them and so you're telling

[00:46:48] yourselves to do something with a signal that it's already familiar with and it knows how to read

[00:46:53] meaning it also has safeguards and ways so in other words if you took a growth hormone releasing

[00:46:59] peptide you're not going to be able to get your growth hormone levels to levels that you would be

[00:47:04] able to get if you took exogenous growth hormone like you're not going to get it to like pro body

[00:47:07] builder growth hormone levels you'll get to like you know when I was 25 growth hormone but anything

[00:47:13] beyond that the peptides not going to do more than that and a lot of peptides if I if I were to

[00:47:18] compare peptides to lifestyle diet sleep exercise like they don't even come as I mean they didn't

[00:47:25] come close doesn't it mean it's like comparing an air filter to the engine like can you get more

[00:47:30] horsepower if you get a better air filter in your car yeah but you know it's not going to be like

[00:47:34] you know putting a bigger engine in your car is like is that gonna come close to that so

[00:47:39] so I think people focus on them though because they are money makers and so when you look at the

[00:47:45] market and you consume information the information is skewed towards what's going to produce revenue

[00:47:51] so I think people think that those things and supplements are more effective than they are when

[00:47:56] they're they do something peptides do something but it means it's not going to come close to

[00:48:02] the you know the important stuff yeah well said and I'm glad you defined the difference between

[00:48:06] peptide and an actual drug I think a lot of people get confused on that quite quite often actually

[00:48:12] next one is artificial intelligence and I've tremendously large topic so I want to narrow down

[00:48:18] for you man artificial intelligence in the way to get better health health outcomes for consumers

[00:48:24] if they're if it's used in a way to to improve a person's connection to their body if it if it's

[00:48:31] used in a way to help a person develop better behaviors and a better relationship with themselves

[00:48:38] and exercise and diet then it's going to be amazing if it's used in a way to to detach us from

[00:48:44] those things it's not gonna help at best will become reliant on this thing to tell us what to do

[00:48:51] and people don't really like to live that way anyway so we have all the information already I mean

[00:48:56] you can go on Google you could find out anything you need about exercise they can listen to my podcast

[00:49:00] lots of but it's really about developing the wisdom to adopt behaviors and live in a way because you

[00:49:06] want to right like people have a tough time with exercise and diet because it's like they're

[00:49:11] white knuckling at the whole time and it's like oh I hate this like imagine if you didn't imagine

[00:49:16] if this is the way you want it to live right there's a way to do that and I think we can use AI like

[00:49:22] I'll use a technology now as an example that's that's kind of like this so CGMs have existed for a while

[00:49:28] continue a glucose monitor so for people aren't familiar you put one on and it measures your

[00:49:33] blood glucose in real time okay so literally I can eat something and I can see on my app oh there's

[00:49:38] my blood sugar oh that food affects my blood sugar more than this food and whatever which is

[00:49:42] cool because there's a big it turns out there's a big individual variance I mean somebody could get

[00:49:45] an a blood sugar spike from an avocado that doesn't even have any sugar because they have an

[00:49:50] intolerance to it so their immune reaction low-level immune reaction causes their liver to dump

[00:49:54] sugar and they get that they would have never known it had they not worn this now is that

[00:49:59] gonna help people it will if they can look at the app and connect it to how they feel their behaviors

[00:50:07] like oh I noticed I was cranky you know or irritable around three o'clock or I got kind of like

[00:50:14] anxious or my god there's that energy crash that I get and then they connected to the foods that

[00:50:19] oh my god I had no idea that that turkey sandwich I thought was healthy was causing this crazy

[00:50:25] glucose spike and then subsequent drop and that's when I'm always exhausted is right around

[00:50:30] that time that's when I reach for another coffee so if they can use the data to connect more to

[00:50:36] their body it's gonna be incredibly effective but if we use it to detach you know or from ourselves

[00:50:45] like like you know I have a better chance of going the right direction now because of my navigation

[00:50:50] on my phone fact right but here's the fact also I know how to get to less places on my own now

[00:50:55] yeah that's true like you know I have more I have more phone numbers in here than I could ever

[00:51:02] remember but I also simultaneously remember no one's phone numbers I don't know anybody's phone

[00:51:07] number people I talk to every single day I don't know the phone number because of this this device

[00:51:12] so that might not sound like a big deal but if we extend that out to the point where we're so

[00:51:17] disconnected from ourselves that we're constantly looking at this thing to tell us first of all

[00:51:21] don't even think people would live that way I think people rebel against that but even if that

[00:51:25] were possible and that were part of human behavior where we just listen to this thing and become

[00:51:30] robotic like I think we'll notice a dramatic decline in our quality of life and thus our health

[00:51:35] maybe mental health might decline so AI both good and bad yeah awesome man

[00:51:41] well I feel like as far as technology goes we're kind of the frogs literally boiling in the water

[00:51:47] right sometimes like it's it's like all those things you mentioned I see you know over a lifetime

[00:51:52] right just I used to know everybody's phone number now I know two yeah right yeah my wife and my mom

[00:51:57] yeah probably exactly your old phone you know one question that we used to get that kind of

[00:52:01] connects to this one is we still get this sometimes someone says do you think that we will eventually

[00:52:06] have a pill that you could take that would give you all the benefits of exercise and diet okay do

[00:52:13] you think we'll ever get to that point and my answer is no now here's why do I think it's possible

[00:52:19] for us to reach a point with modern pharmacology technology you know to where we're going to have a

[00:52:25] pill that will give us all of the physical effects of diet and exercise yeah I think at some point

[00:52:31] we'll figure that out where yeah I'll take this pill and I'll be lean and muscular and mobile

[00:52:36] and just right I think yes but will it give us all of the benefits of pursuing health and fitness

[00:52:43] of the journey no it's no different than taking a helicopter to the top of Mount Everest that beautiful

[00:52:48] view wow look at this like I can see everything this is crazy is it the same thing as climbing the

[00:52:53] mountain would you come out the same person not even close those of us in the space understand

[00:52:58] in fact what you'll figure out by the way this is a lesson to learn and not just in fitness but in

[00:53:03] business and in family life or whatever it's never about the destination it's always about

[00:53:09] the journey like how many times of people reach their you know financial goal I finally made a

[00:53:14] million dollars and then they're depressed a week later because like wait a minute this was like

[00:53:18] I thought this would be different but it's not you know what I thought or oh I finally hit that

[00:53:22] PR I finally lost that weight and then they're like you know I've interviewed best-selling authors who's

[00:53:26] dream was to have a best-selling book and then they were more depressed than ever a month after

[00:53:30] because it's like what do I do now so it's so yeah I think AI can be I think technology can it

[00:53:37] depends on how we use it and if we use it in a way to improve our wisdom we're gonna be great

[00:53:43] if we just use it to give us our wants we're totally screwed

[00:53:51] great takes man well I've kept you a little over time so I always have this final question but

[00:53:56] as a community fitness and wellness industry folk right how can we help you how can we help

[00:54:01] south what would you like to hear people oh man just just be the soldiers in the war against poor

[00:54:09] health we and it is a war and I paint this often and sometimes people say I'm being dramatic but

[00:54:14] listen it's the truth if you if you live the way you're supposed to if you follow the rules and eat

[00:54:20] the way that they tell you and work the way that you that they tell you you are going to be sick

[00:54:27] fat unhealthy depressed and or anxious okay every market is geared towards poor health every I don't

[00:54:36] care what market you pick even even my market the gyms are not geared towards better health look at

[00:54:41] the gym model pay 20 bucks a month if everybody showed up who actually had a membership they wouldn't

[00:54:47] be able to open the doors because it'd be too many members the model is literally pay us so little

[00:54:52] that you don't want to cancel but we don't want you to show up we don't want you to use the equipment

[00:54:55] we just want your donations right so every market is geared that way so if you're a fitness professional

[00:54:59] or coach or you really care about this like this is a war man and and and if we don't win this war

[00:55:04] it's it's bad news and the best way to do it is to communicate the truth communicate it often

[00:55:10] and to to be consistent be consistent with your integrity and your message and then I think we have

[00:55:15] a chance that's awesome we'll wrap it up right there so thank you so much for joining me man and

[00:55:19] obviously people can find you anywhere just go look at mine pump media or you know

[00:55:23] sales name and you'll find it it's been a real pleasure I really admire what you guys do keep

[00:55:27] up the great work and hopefully because I have a million more questions for you maybe you'll come

[00:55:31] back on next year sure and I can finish some of those off because it's it's it's a lot of fun

[00:55:35] minutes really valuable too so yeah ladies and gentlemen Sal just a phono thank you appreciate her

[00:55:42] hey wait don't leave yet this was your host Eric Malzone and I hope you enjoyed this episode of

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[00:56:34] thank you so much this is Eric Malzone and this is the future of fitness have a great day