Pat Rigsby - Franchising Reality Check: B2B Acquisition, Broker Dependency, and Loss of Control

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to futurofitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. One theme keeps coming up: the right technology can make or break your business. That's why I'm thrilled to introduce our new presenting sponsor, Perfect Gym. Perfect Gym isn't just another gym management system. They are part of the Sport Alliance Group, Europe's leading fitness software company that has officially entered the US market. Now, I've seen this movie before, but here's the difference. They've opened up a U.S. headquarters in Boston because they understand that the American market deserves dedicated, localized support. After digging into the platform, one benefit especially stood out. They are simplifying the nightmare that keeps business owners up at night migrations. These guys were able to migrate one mega client with more than 250 locations in six different countries in just 20 days between two payment runs. No disrupting operations, no member loss, one seamless operation that simply works. Now, if you have ever switched platforms, you know how terrifying that process can be and how truly impressive that feat is. At a high level, here's their secret sauce. They give the power back to the operator. Instead of forcing you into their closed ecosystem, their Perfect Gym Marketplace connects with over 120 integration partners. So want to use your own app, your preferred payment processor, class pass for booking? No problem. Whether you're running a single studio or managing a multi-location enterprise, Perfect Gym was built from the ground up for multi-club operations. They've invested a ton into this platform, and now they're bringing that European engineering excellence to America. The migration experts have arrived. Check out perfectgym.com where enterprise level sophistication meets operator freedom. In an industry full of noise, with more features, more screens, more promises, eGym is focused on something far more meaningful. Progress that counts. EGM is a global fitness technology leader building the infrastructure behind real results. Their open ecosystem connects smart strength equipment, AI-powered software, and data-driven services to turn fitness into measurable, repeatable progress for members, trainers, operators, and communities. Now what really excites me is how EGM brings its ecosystem together with Wellpast, their corporate wellness platform. By combining their strength equipment with AI-powered software and their corporate wellness platform, Wellpast, they're leading the shift to proactive, preventative health. Isn't that what we all want? That's why we're here. The result, members feel more confident and motivated, trainers have better tools to support people, operators see stronger retention and growth, and employers benefit from healthier, more engaged teams. This isn't innovation for show. It's progress you can see, measure, and repeat. To learn more, please visit eGym.com. All right, let's go. Pat Rigsby, welcome back. How are we doing, my friend?

I'm happy to be here. Anytime you and I get to spend some time together, it's always uh always a win for me.

Yeah, it is. It's always a win. And you know, I'll uh set the table here. So we're gonna talk about a couple things. Um, number one, you're launching you're launching a new franchise. Really excited about that. Um, I think for anybody specifically who's considering, you and I are joking about how many times you probably heard people say, you know what, man, I'm thinking about franchising this thing. And you're like, whoa, right? Um, but this isn't your first rodeo. You've done this before, you've seen success here, you've also worked with a lot of successful franchises. So we're gonna get into that thought process. And I think not only if you're an operator or gym owner, but if you want to have an understanding of like how this part of the industry works and what it takes to get one of these things launched is super valuable. And also want to get your take on on the year of 2025. It was a very dynamic year for a lot of different sectors of our industry, but specifically, you know, to the one that that you know really well, which is the gym space and independent boutique operators and things like that. Um, you know, for people I haven't ha heard you on this podcast before, uh, you first crossed my desk before we even met in the uh little black book of fitness business success, which was something I read uh I don't know, 2009, 10. Does that make sense? Yeah. And then uh subscribe to your newsletter, which I think is iconic if people aren't on it. Um Pat has written his email newsletters now. And you've never breaken the never broken the chain, right? Like you you always every day for over 20 years. Everyone just take a second and just realize like the power of consistency over time. You know, I look at this podcast and I've been publishing consistently for going on nine years now, and it just fee it's just part of what I do. It's a habit, which I presume is you know, your emails is like it's just I couldn't imagine not doing it at this point. So I'm I'm stuck.

I can't stop now. I'm not gonna create another 20 year streak, right?

So that's awesome. So anyway, you've been around for a while, man. Um let's let's uh let's start with this. Like looking at 2025, any outstanding themes or learnings um that you can take you can take away?

Yeah, I I mean I think that the landscape has evolved so quickly in in fitness. You know, you and I have both been around the the the service side of the fitness industry, not just mainstream health clubs or whatever else for for quite some time. And it it it's just kind of it's like a flywheel. It's just picked up speed, right? And that has made the landscape a whole lot more competitive. Um you know, you can't really get by without being an actual business owner now. You can't just be a coach with a Venmo account and that sort of thing. It I mean, you have to to be able to operate a business, you have to market, you have to be able to lead a team if you're gonna scale beyond yourself. And I and I think that's exciting. I think that there are more people building a real livelihood now in this industry rather than just kind of creating a really challenging job. You know, I I think the marketing side of things has really evolved. And I'm sure this is for every industry, but you know, 95% of my work is in this, you know, fitness, sports performance. It it used to be there was like this kind of linear attribution, right? Like you could put up an ad on Facebook or some other platform, and somebody would fill out a, I mean, it, you know, hey, there's a woo foo form, fill this out, and then they'd join your challenge, and there's this really direct process. But now it just doesn't seem to work that way, right? Like you have to kind of be visible, people do their shopping kind of on their own time. I I think consume a lot of your content and and read your reviews and learn about your business anonymously, right? Like without you ever knowing. And to be fair, that's probably where a lot of the good work you do, the podcasting comes into play, right? I can binge episodes of podcasts and learn about somebody before I've ever had to engage with them and put myself in maybe a little more vulnerable environment of a consult or a trial. And so I think we as business owners need to understand that's how people shop now. People they have this incredibly powerful research tool in their pocket and they may see your ad, but then instead of following this kind of linear path, they're just gonna start looking around and learning about you and doing things on their term. So some of the buying processes shifted from being maybe business-centric to consumer-centric. And I can only imagine that that it's gonna continue to go that way. The AI side of things has been pretty fascinating too, so much so that I actually became a limited partner in a VC fund that invested in AI companies, in part because I feel like, hey, I need to understand this better. Um, but you know, now content is easy for people to develop, and most of the time it's not very good. So, but it means there's just more stuff in people's feed. There's more for people to sift through. So it's even harder to get somebody's attention and maintain it or retain it over time, I guess. Um, so you need to be better at it. Again, that probably uh, you know, I I mean, if I'm turning this into a commercial for podcasting, uh you know, that was maybe an unintended bonus, right? But uh I mean, that's where being authentic and being able to help somebody feel like they're actually connecting with you instead of getting some kind of one size fits all canned piece of content. I I think that that becomes more and more powerful, right? You know, I think that the pendulum swings really far in certain directions when things are relatively new. And I think it's kind of been that way with uh AI now, just like you know, during the pandemic and soon after the online training stuff was that way. And now we're kind of seeing it kind of settle in and find its place. And um, you know, so those are those are the things I'm seeing, maybe more on the independent side of the training industry. Obviously, just mainstream with boutique fitness. I think we're seeing a lot of wellness being integrated. You know, and I think you and I may have talked about this five years ago. Like, this is where it was headed. It I mean, it seemed pretty obvious to me, and I I think it did to you too, that it was going this way, right? Like people don't silo the way they think about these things, maybe the way that somebody grew up in the fitness industry might. And I positive, I think that's a positive thing. And I think that gives us in the fitness industry an opportunity to have a broader impact, a more meaningful long-term relationship with clients. Um, I think the maybe I wouldn't say emergence, but maybe popularity of the the services provided to the 50 and overcrowd has grown and grown and grown. Um, you know, with which as a 53-year-old, as we record this, I'm I'm not sad about. Um I'm excited. I think the for many years the the industry felt like it was a young person's industry and it was very aesthetics focused, and then you know, things like CrossFit made it, you know, in maybe increased the perception of the importance of performance too. But now now I I think we're we're getting it to be a little bit more holistic, and I think that's a win for all of us.

Yeah, it is, and there's a I mean, obviously there's a lot to to dive into there, but the I think what you and I talked about was years ago, and I've continued to talk about, I'm sure you have, is like this this merger that we're having with health, right? Like fitness isn't kind of what it we need a new name for it. I don't know what it is. I've heard a lot of different, I've heard wellness, which doesn't really ugh, I don't know. It's okay. Halo, Pete Moore loves Halo, which is what was it, health, active lifestyle, and outdoors, if I get that right. Sorry, Pete, if I'm wrong. And then, you know, just that that whole thing, you know, vitality, whatever it is, people are searching out more than just aesthetics, and that's a huge opportunity for for us because it opens up pat, you know, a lot of partnership opportunities. It opens up much more expensive offers, if we're honest. Uh and I think one of the things that I've I've seen this year, and it continues to grow, is people over 50, but also especially I think women over four, because there's all this new science and research coming out about women's health during this critical phase of life. And um there's a lot of frustrated women out there who their body just starts changing, right? And maybe they look at their spouse if they're married to a man and they're like, what the hell? Like that guy's he can just this is something maybe happens in my household every once in a while. It's like, you know, I can sneeze and lose five pounds if I need to after the holidays, right? And I think a lot of changes there and you know, the opportunities for hormone management and things like that. So it's it's a very cool, cool time. And of course, AI seems to be underlying the whole thing. So yeah, well said. Any other major things that that you've noticed?

You know, I I just think that there's there's been this kind of dividing line in the and again, I I spend most of my time in the training gym side of things more than health club side of stuff, right? But in the training gym side of things, there's almost like this dividing line of business owners and trainers who happen to pay rent in their own facility. And I I think that over time it's actually become this black and white thing, whereas in the beginning, it it was very, very much shades of gray. Um you know, you could get by early on because there weren't a whole lot of competitors in a given market, and you might be the only one conveniently enough low, like conveniently located enough to serve a per you know a particular neighborhood. And now, you know, it the competition, you know, the competition's pretty dense. You you've that's one of the great things I think about you know franchising probably is it it forces the independent owner's hand a little bit. Like you've got to raise the bar, you've got to become a better operator, you be gotta become a more consistent marketer, you need to be better at hiring and developing a team. And you know, I I think that for a long time people kind of just get by, and you know, for years we we talked about, you know, maybe the industry needed to be more professional, and maybe licensing was the you know, the answer or whatever else. Sometimes this is almost like Darwinism, right? Like maybe becoming more professional just, you know, the industry had to just become more competitive and it made people raise the bar a little bit. So so I think that's a positive thing. I think that you know, now it it's a profession, not just a trade.

It's it's interesting you say that because I also have concerns on the flip side that very few less people are interested in the profession of fitness and coaching than before. And there's a lot of like the uh, you know, um looking for like like they're doing multiple jobs all at once, right? Maybe they're they're a fitness trainer, but they also have their Instagram, but they're also, you know, driving an Uber or they're delivering or doing whatever, right? Mowing lawns, like just multiple jobs at once. The gig economy, that's what I'm looking for. So when you look at like the the profession of the coach, what do you think it has in store for this perfect particular profession? Do you think there's gonna be more of them, or there's gonna be fewer of them that are gonna get better paid and more professional? Or like, yeah, what's what's your trend that you're seeing?

I think there will be fewer long-term dabblers, I'll call them, right? Like I think that from my perspective, it it makes sense because you know, you and I have spoken about this a lot. Like, I I come from also coaching in college baseball. I still coach like high school baseball. It was very normal for somebody to leave college baseball or professional baseball and do lessons for a little bit while they were kind of figuring it out. Like, what am I gonna do next? What am I gonna build as a career? And that just served almost like a bridge. And I think that historically in our industry, we've had a lot of people use the training profession as a bridge. And, you know, they don't know what they're gonna do after college. They like being in the gym, they're comfortable with that environment, but ultimately they're they're not being paid what they need to be paid to have the life they want to live, they're not getting benefits. And so I I think of this like how many people graduate from that stage to actually become professionals in our industry. And those are those are the numbers that I probably would be more interested in. And the other people are kind of just passing through. And I think if you're a business owner, that's great because we need that. I think that just like a lot of, you know, franchisable businesses like fast food restaurants or quick service restaurants or whatever else need those types of employees too. We probably need them just as much. But I do think that there will be more people who build great livelihoods in our industry over the next 10 years than have over the last 20 years. It's I think the vehicle is stronger. I think the mainstream popularity, I mean, there are more people who belong to gyms than ever before. Whether we call it health or fitness or wellness or halo or whatever else, that's only growing and more awareness. It's probably a little harder to find people who've never experienced a gym before than it would have been when you and I got into this. So, yeah, I think there's a better path for a nice livelihood here than there would have been. I I used to be fond in the first 10 years of coaching business owners of saying you just don't know any retired personal trainers. You might know some people who quit.

Yeah.

You don't know anybody who retired from that profession.

Really good point, yeah.

It's maturing now. And I think that with maturity, you know, there there comes some some better opportunity.

Yeah. Uh that's great. Well, hell yeah. I like that optimism. We're gonna stick with that. Um let's talk about uh your franchise and what you're doing here. Now, okay, let's start with this. What is your experience with franchises? I know it's 20 plus years that you've been doing this, so let's let's give us a little bit of background before and set the table here before we get into what you're doing at uh Athletes Accelerated.

So we were um I I you know had business partners at the time, franchisee number 33 of Anytime Fitness. So there were just a couple partners and an administrative assistant, very early adopters there. So we got got involved there. So that was my first experience with any sort of franchising. But then in 2009, my company that had been involved in like business coaching and certifications and stuff launched Athletic Revolution, which was a sports performance, youth athlete development franchise. Eventually we got up to like 72 locations. It was, I think, at its peak, it was number one in its respective category in the entrepreneur franchise 500. I mean, it got some traction. In 2011, kind of did the same thing, launched Fitness Revolution, which was kind of the same type of model, but it was for adult fitness. And again, it got to the point where it was number one in its respective category there. You know, the the kind of parent company those was franchise business reviews, top franchise for franchisees satisfaction. So, I mean, it did well, but it in many ways it was probably a little bit ahead of its time, right? Because uh the idea then was to provide the the benefits of franchising that that you know I kind of learned through Anytime Fitness, and you could observe through so many other franchises, like you know, they provide you structure and systems and support and protected territories and buying power, you know, and and over time brand recognition as you grow. But you know, we were trying to do that, but instead of selling to investor groups or people leaving corporate America or whatever else, we were converting existing fitness business owners, sports performance business owners to give them that so they could better compete in their respective marketplace. You know, I sold my stake in all of that at the end of 2014. You know, I think they went a different direction with with the company and moved it to more of licensing and coaching. After that, I consulted with a couple other franchises, actually several franchises since and continued to kind of refine my thinking and evolve my thinking on it. Uh You know, a little over a year ago, one of our clients, and I say our, I partnered with Doug Sperling on a couple coaching programs for really successful fitness business owners. One of our clients and friends, Graham Wilkerson, had come to uh come to us and said, Hey, I'm I'm curious about franchising. Graham at the time had like three sports performance locations. He's since you know grown to four and had some people reaching out, some of those companies that say, Hey, we'll franchise your business, which always sounds like a really cool idea. Right. But um, yeah, I think once he got under the hood of it, it wasn't as good as maybe it originally sounded. And so we talked, and so the three of us uh decided to explore the possibility of franchising his model, um, because it I mean it it ran counter to the bigger franchises that have been in that industry, the big footprint, like you know, 10 to 30,000 square foot spaces that typically are those uh investor-driven models. And I said, well, okay, let's, you know, let's let's talk about this, what needs to happen. And we said, well, we need, you know, proof of concept. Does this work when you're not the driver? Because that's what happens with a lot of franchises.

Right.

You know, when you when you touched on this earlier on the in the episode, we you know, we hear people a lot saying, oh, hey, I'd like to franchise this or franchise that. Well, I mean, you may be a wonderful operator and you may have an incredible business, but is it something else, or is it something that somebody else can run? Is it something that somebody else can go and take and operate? So we said, look, we're gonna get some case study people here. They're not gonna drop uh adopt your brand. We're gonna kind of license the IP and coach them. And we we did that originally, like we thought three to five, and eventually it grew to you know, I think 24 now.

Wow.

And um, and it's going incredibly well. Um Graham is a top 1% operator. He uh he's you know, he's got his handle on the sports performance market, like very few people do. It it just made all the sense in the world. But our approach is very similar, maybe, but maybe more timely and certainly more refined and dialed in to the way that we may have thought about this, or I thought about this uh you know a decade ago. And it's uh, you know, let's go and take independent owners and provide them a vehicle to build wealth and have greater impact and become scalable and potentially scale to multiple locations. And I think the industry's certainly more ready for that now. I mean, uh like we just said that it's a more mature industry. We've got more people who aspire to be an actual business owner. So we're we're really close. You know, as we record this, we're we're almost ready to begin issuing FDDs in non-registration states, and franchising's got no shortage of hoops to jump through, and you know, you've got to register in a number of states individually, and so we won't be offering franchises there until we can meet all their criteria and be approved. But you know, I'm excited because you know, franchising itself is it's a bear, it's it's a challenge to do, but I think the vehicle is wonderful. It helps you build a more saleable business, you know, being us being able to kind of pour resources into that kind of that vehicle instead of you know relying exclusively on like a coaching program or something like that, you can just kind of double down on it because the relationships are stronger with the people that you're serving, you've got more commitment on both sides, and so you just can go deeper and have more impact.

So, what I'm hearing here is like uh you've been very deliberate with the process. And you know, one of the people I look at, I think I'm sure you know Rick Mayo, but and what he's done at Alloy Personal Training is you know, he's been in the industry for 35 years, right? He's he's done a lot of things, probably made a lot of mistakes. Um, you know, he started by licensing and you know, seeing how it goes. And and um I think a lot of people may look at the opportunities in franchising, their eyes get really big, right? Their mouths start watering at the potential, and they just haven't proven out a scalable model. And you know, I think you nailed it like you could be an amazing operator, right? But uh, you know, all the struggles I see in like the the mid-level of growth for for most franchises, or even just trying to get over 10, is that it's not scalable, right? Like there's the quality control issue. Um, you can't duplicate the experience from one location to the next um and keep it consistent across the brand. So it's there, there's a lot of things and and capitalization. A lot of them come in very undercapitalized. And um, so looking listen to your process is super interesting. So you have like you said 20 to 24 people who have tested out the model. I presume those are potential franchises.

Well, I I mean, I I think that hopefully they they all are. Hopefully they've had a a really positive experience. The feedback that we've gotten certainly has said that, right? And but some of them are in registration state, so we're kind of down the line from being able to do that. Yeah, those would be the first people that we'd want to connect with. And something else we did that I thought was was exciting is we forged a partnership with Athletes Acceleration to adopt their brand. I mean, we couldn't trademark Graham's gym name. It was not, you know, available to be trademarked. And it's like, well, what do we want to do that would be um you know reflective of the type of business we want to run? That and you know, to be able to say, okay, we can borrow on the credibility and goodwill that that brand's already developed. You know, I thought that was that was pretty great. But really, I think it's just a a different approach to franchising, too. It's not like most franchises, you're you're looking for an investor, right? And they're seeing this as an investment as a vehicle to multiply the their money, right? For for us, we saw this as uh a vehicle to help an owner become a better business owner and build wealth as a business owner. Um and it's a little bit different because I mean there are incredibly smart, accomplished guys like Rick out there, and I think mo Rick Rick has a few conversions, I believe, but most of them are investors. And I think that if you look at places like D1, I mean, you know, most of the like gym owners that that we would have relationships with, they couldn't come up with the resources to open a D1. But for us, it's like you know, smaller footprint, very much the same type of location, the same model, or even more likely in many cases, even converting an existing model business to this. Just give somebody uh, you know, a more durable, sustainable, profitable business.

Give me some insights on why you like the concept here. Um, you know, and and maybe I always find a good place to start. It's like what is the member experience?

Well, it's I get a unique perspective, right? I'm a dad of a freshman in high school who happens to be an athlete. I coach travel baseball, I coach high school baseball, I was a college baseball coach, and I consult with a bunch of businesses that are in this kind of realm. And I think that it's just, you know, what would I, what experience would I want my kid to have? And it's kind of why I've coached in general. It's like, okay, do, you know, is he going to get better, but is he going to be in an environment where, you know, people are going to care about him and advocate for him and make him feel important and valued? Because I think that's one of the really cool pieces of the private sector side of youth athlete development. You know, if you go to a high school team or whatever else, it's almost kind of that big team little me mentality, as it should be, right? Like you're learning to be part of an organization. But that doesn't mean there's not value in somebody getting some personalized attention and you know, them kind of being, you know, maybe the center of some of the spotlight and working on their individual needs and helping them pursue their individual goals. And I think so it's a nice kind of mix or or something that dovetails with team sport. And it's small group training, is, you know, it's kind of what I would think of as premium service, maybe premium price for group, because it is not like large group, one size fits all, cookie cutter. It's definitely more the small group training model, but it's not one-on-one, right? It's not, you know, somebody needing to come in and invest $150 an hour for a one-on-one session. Who's the uh who's the I you know, I I think it's a an existing sports performance gym owner. That would be like the first the first pick in the draft here.

Okay.

Existing sports performance gym owner who wants to maybe graduate from feeling like they've just created a pretty hard job for themselves, right? They're they're working every evening, and so I'm coaching everybody else's kids, but I don't ever get to watch mine play, you know, and and they feel like maybe they've hit a plateau financially, and so they're looking for uh just a better vehicle to give them the life they want while still being able to have a really powerful impact on the athletes in their market. The second kind of tier would be those like physical therapy practices or something along those lines, or a you know, a sports skill facility, like a baseball facility who wanted to bolt this on and cross-promote internally and maximize the value of the relationships they have.

It's it I I hear you you talking to, and I always think about this within our industry. And it's not just for coaches and and gym operators, but everyone comes into this industry with a high level of passion, right? You hear this word all the time. People come from other industries, they're like, I'm so happy to be in this fitness and wellness industry, I have so much passion for it. And maybe I'm just, you know, getting old and crusty, but I'm like, whenever I hear that, I'm like, all right, well, protect that passion because it's gonna wear thin eventually because it's not it wears out, and then you're kind of stuck with, what did I just do? So I like I I hear this, and I I think of like a friend who's just opening uh a reopening for the second time a sports performance gym here in Whitefish. And I see him and he's like, he's taken two years off from coaching, and he's like, I can't wait, I'm so passionate about this. I love it. It's something I'm born to do. And I'm like, dude, that passion. When it gets to 12, 14 hour days, six days a week, you know, and he's got four kids, he's got all kinds of things writing on this. It's like, you know, that I think the antidote, and it's just a it's not a bad thing, it's just a quality of our industry, right? But I I think the antidote to that is systems and structure.

In many ways, that's our guy, right? Like that's our person. And I know, like selfishly for me, this is, you know, if I think about like what do I want my professional legacy to be, it's like taking somebody like that and saying, okay, I can help that person have the impact they want to have, which I think can be really awesome in a community. And, you know, speaking as a as a parent, as a coach of these players, I know the difference it can make for them if it's done well. But also, he's got to be able to create the type of life he wants because he's pouring a lot of himself into it. And so I think for me, that's a fun, you know, professional legate legacy to pursue, is like helping people do that. And obviously, I try to do that with business coaching and have for many, many years. But that's the you know, I think that's the vision is like, can we help these individual business owners create something that has you know a lasting impact, but pays them well, allows them to build wealth, allows them to have a life. You know, not I'm not saying they're never gonna step foot in the gym and this is an entirely hands-off thing because some people are really, really excited about coaching on the floor with athletes.

Yeah, it's fun.

But they still need to be able to go watch their kids play. They need to be able to take family vacations without feeling like it's all gonna burn down. And so being able to do that, I think, is incredibly exciting for me as part of this.

When you talk about like the athlete experience at the facility, what does that look like? Is there um you mentioned small group, is there a coach on the floor, is there any specific types of technology? Are you guys tracking any kind of data on each on each kid? Like, yeah, what what do you got? What's what's the salary?

So one of the things that that I think has been a hallmark of Graham's business that I really loved is he has what he calls his brand guarantee, where there's a certain guaranteed amount of improvement within 30 sessions for a vertical leap and you know, running mile miles per hour, basically. So a speed improvement. I think, you know, that's I think that's huge, right? Because having some certainty that you can go into an environment and know you're gonna, you know, get better provided you're willing to to make that level of commitment, I think goes a long way, especially in a market where a lot of parents don't know and there are a lot of promises here and there. And so these are realistic, but but you know, I think lofty targets to hit, but they've hit them time and time again. And so all that data is tracked, somebody comes in, they do their athlete assessment, then they're moved into small group where they're gonna get kind of a foundational program, but within individualized, you know, components. So they're gonna be progressions and regressions. They're gonna be the, you know, the the programming isn't just cookie cutter one size fits all, but they're gonna be fundamentals, you know, you just don't deviate from, I guess is the best way to put it.

And is it is it all sports or are you guys finding like most traction in just two or three?

Um, you know, I I think that in Graham's market, like he's in Indianapolis and owns a facility in Cincinnati, Ohio. You know, there's a little bit of variety. I think in like Indianapolis, they've gotten more of a broad spectrum of people. I think the business he acquired in Cincinnati was a little heavier on the baseball side and is now becoming maybe more diverse in the types of athletes. I think ideally you're gonna have several different sports represented because the seasonality of sport, you're going to, you know, you're you're gonna see people drop off when it gets to be in season. And you need, you know, you need those fall sport folks in whenever the the spring sport guys are in season. So, so yeah, I think ideally there's there's gonna be some diversity. Uh, I don't necessarily know that every sports performance business does that well because most of us gravitate to what we know. So, you know, I would instinctively go after baseball players since that's my background. And then I'd try to eventually make some inroads other places. But I think that with the marketing, the systems, the social proof, the things that we can provide, it makes it so much lower friction for somebody to go get into volleyball, even if they don't necessarily have a network or a background in volleyball.

And you know what I what I started to notice with my gym operator days towards the last few years is I was working summer programs with high school athletes, um, primarily waterpole, because that's a sport I knew. Um, you know, maybe a little bit of volleyball and thing like that. I first of all, I loved it. It was so much fun. Just the smell of chlorine in the room again was very nostalgic for me. Um, but just seeing how they could advance over the summer, you know, they look like baby giraffes when they first walked in, healing a dark, you know, a barbell, and then by the end, at least they look somewhat functionable, right? Functional. Uh so I I think it's just a lot of fun to work with these athletes, but I also noticed that it's a pretty good market to be in. Like there is a lot of money in high school sports performance. Maybe talk about that size of that market. I'm sure you you're very aware and astute on it.

I mean, you know, it's constantly growing, it's billions and billions of dollars. Uh, USports is is blown up. I mean, now you've gotten private equity involved, acquiring, you know, tournament organizations, facilities. I mean, it's just booming. And um it's not it's not gonna go away, right? Parents have historically been willing to invest in their their kids, regardless of economic downturns or whatever else. They'll they'll spend money on them before they'll spend money on themselves. All you have to do is go to any, like uh, you know, a baseball or softball tournament, and you see people carrying around two to four bats in their bat bag that each cost four hundred dollars plus.

That's crazy.

I mean, it it's wild. But you know, it's uh it it's also a market because there's a deadline associated with it, right? Like I I mean, I'll use my my son as an example. Oh, yeah. You know, if he wants to go play collegiately, then you know, he has to have a little bit of urgency, right? Like he's gotta do things by a certain point to to be marketable enough to attract college opportunities. And so I think that that also helps, right? Like it's not one of those things you can just continually kick the can down the road on. But yeah, there's there there's just so much upside to that market that you know, as a as a parent, I get it. As a high school coach, I get it. As a travel coach, I get it. I I mean, it's competitive, it's more competitive than it's ever been. Um, I'm not gonna tell you I agree with everything that goes on in youth sports by a long shot. There are plenty of things that I don't, you know, I don't love that go on. I know Eric Cressy and I did a lengthy podcast on youth sports uh about a year ago and talked about, you know, the value of long-term athletic development and how a lot of people get very short-sighted. But that's I think an opportunity that we can we can tap into. We can be um you know advocates for taking the long-term development approach. And if we're playing a role in that, then we can you know we can help kids and keep them from kind of bouncing from trend to trend or chasing shiny objects and put them in an environment where they're gonna improve. It's a you know, a safe environment, but it's a challenging environment. And I think, again, as somebody who's spent the better part of the past 30 years mentoring young athletes, it's that's something that I don't take for granted because it's kind of rare.

Yeah, there's uh I mean there's so many different books about well, I had a conversation with uh Hewitt Tomlin from Team Builder, and you know, one of his favorite topics to chat about on podcasts, or just if you catch him just like, you know, on a non-recording day, is how, you know, maybe the competitiveness in the United States has kind of ruined sports or long-term development, right? Because it's like if they don't get to a certain point by their senior year, they just give up on it. Where it's like maybe there's the if in a perfect world we would focus on playing multiple sports and having a love for the game. And you know, maybe having strength training is like, okay, this is just something I do now forever, not just in the offseason. Like, you know, having this this and it's it's almost like what's good about our culture here in the United States, but also there's a there's a trade-off to everything. And I think that's that's kind of what what you're describing here. What do you think like when people look to potentially franchise their concept? This is something that stuck out to me with with Rick when I talked to him about it. It was like you're gonna need more money than you think um to get it through. So if someone's sitting in there like, okay, I have this great concept, maybe I have two locations and they're they're operating independently, and I'm like, yeah, now's the time. Where where do you kind of like tell them, like, hey, hit the brake for a second. Here here's some of the things you're gonna need that you don't think you need.

Well, I mean, the first thing I would ask somebody is why? Like, why do you want a franchise rather than Expand to more corporately owned locations? Why do you want to franchise instead of coaching other people to do things that you do? Because there are definitely a number of different ways to scale, right? To have a greater impact, to have a larger footprint. Franchising is just one of those, and in many ways, it's the toughest. Because if it's corporately owned, you have a whole lot more control, right? Like these people are your employees. You get to um, you know, you get to really in some ways kind of unilaterally decide on pretty much everything. Because, you know, in in the franchising world, it's I mean, they're your customer, right? Like they they're buying a franchise because they believe that your systems, your vehicle, your support, that's that's how they're going to get to where they want to go faster, fewer mistakes, lower hassle, less risk. And so I think the the challenge there though is you're not the one hiring their team members. You're not the one, you know, I mean, they're they're probably entrepreneurial in their own right. So you're trying to uh you know kind of herd them in in some some regard. And that that can be pretty foreign to um yeah, to somebody that's always had the control as an owner. Um just like you know, coaching. Coaching a lot of times is making suggestions. I can give somebody tools and templates, but I I'm not deciding for them, right? I'm suggesting, recommending. But yeah, so I think franchising's tough that way. I think the franchisee acquisition is tough. A lot of people, I mean, I I know that when I did this the first time, I kind of just told brokers thanks, but no thanks. I didn't, you know, I wasn't pursuing their franchise prospects. And so I didn't really want to give up the lion's share of you know the the upfront franchise fee that that they took to for us to acquire people because that wasn't our person. We were going after b you know existing fitness business owners, not BizOp people. In franchising, you gotta decide like who do you want to be the owner? Who's gonna operate? Like, what role are you gonna play? It's very foreign. And it's it's often like I use kind of maybe the comparison, like if you if you like grilling out on your back patio, that doesn't mean that you should go franchise a burger restaurant. I mean, these are two very different things that you may think, well, I love doing this, and I love it, you know, and I plenty of other people would love this. But you know, see it and they they hear about franchises getting sold to private equity for large sums of money. And and I I get it, right? Like, but you gotta decide because you're a partner with these people now, right? Like the people that become franchisee, franchisees, you are a partner who is obligated to help them become successful, like legally obligated to help them become successful. And that's yeah, that's a pretty strong marriage with a you know, pretty important ask. And so I think a lot of people, they don't necessarily want to do that once they think about it. And then also, most people who've been business-to-consumer businesses have never dealt with B2B. They've never had to go and acquire B2B clients. And so they're at the mercy of brokers, they're at the mercy of this third-party person that you may have a wonderful concept, but if you can't get anybody to take you up on your offer and you're at the mercy of these third-party people who have 200 other franchises in their portfolio that they're selling, you know, that that's a tough spot to be in, too. I that's never really been my vision for franchising. You know, I wanted to help the people that I've enjoyed working with most and create a better vehicle for them. I don't know that that would be the model that I would choose or the the path that I would seek, because I don't think that I just want to be one other brand in somebody's portfolio.

Well said. Well said. Is there information out there publicly on this yet? Do you guys have a website?

Are you We haven't launched the website until we are official, just so we don't muddy the waters at all. But I will pass it along to you as soon as it is available.

Yeah, please do. And I would presume that if people want to find out more, they just go to patregsby.com and plenty of plenty of ways to find you. Uh Pat, always always a pleasure, man. I'm really excited to see how this thing unfolds, and I have no doubt um, you know, there's no guarantee of success no matter how much experience you have, right? But I'm thinking things got a pretty good shot. So uh I'll keep an eye on it.

Well, I appreciate it. Appreciate your support and your friendship, and it's just fun to get together and talk through some of the stuff that we see happening, and obviously this is a big thing happening in my world.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's gonna be great. Ladies and gentlemen, Pat Rigsby.

Thank you.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.