Financial Fitness For Fitness Pros - Billy Hofacker

Somebody just asked me asked the other day in a group on me, is it is it actually possible to make it? And I'm like, well, what do you mean by making it? And he said, Well, actually being able to pay for my bills and having some money at the end of the month and not feel like I'm a slave to my business and I have to work 60 hour weeks. And I it was like sad to me. He was asking a dead serious question. He genuinely thought that it was not possible to have a better life.

Hey Fitness fans, welcome back to the Future of Fitness podcast and interview series. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and this is episode number 105. I get to talk to Billy Hothacker. So what a great story, uh, what a great service that he is launching. So let's let's get real for a second. Okay. Um, I talked to a lot of fitness professionals a lot. Uh I am one of you, I am a fitness professional, I've been doing it for a long time. And I can tell you this as much as we truly care for people, we want to change lives, we want to make an impact, we haven't really figured out how to fill our bank accounts, have we? Right? And if you haven't been instilled with great financial habits uh over your lifetime, there's a good chance you can get into trouble. And Billy tells a story um the trouble he was in, the debt he was in, and how he got himself out of it. And now he's devoted himself to helping people within the fitness and health industry get out of debt and get into the black and start living the lives that they want and deserve. So um really good insights, you know, it's so interesting the mindset around money that we have, um how we deal with it. And it's a topic that frankly is just not talked about enough within our profession. And it's one of the ways we can elevate is by talking about money. Money is, you know, for some reason we all want we always want to um sacrifice ourselves for the greater good. We don't have to, we shouldn't, right? We offer a ton of value, and money is just an easy way of establishing value, it's the most communicated way of establishing value. That's it. That's all the mindset you need to know about money. So are you worth it? Then establish the value with money and go from there. So um I'm asking you for a favor today, call to action would be if you can, please go to iTunes or wherever you're listening to this and uh subscribe. That helps us a ton. We have a ton of great interviews coming out, like amazing ones. Dean Somerset is after this, a bunch of other ones that I've lined up for Q1 and beyond. Uh, it'll blow your mind. You're not gonna want to miss them. And then write us a review. So uh I'm gonna read reviews out for every single one uh that I do. And Scott Michelle from Orange To Personal Fitness, uh, he wrote this hands down, the most consistent high-value content you will find on a podcast. Eric ensures the episodes give the listener the most return on their time investment. I own 11 studios, and I'm still learning how to improve my fitness, my business from this podcast. Thank you, Scott. That was awesome. And uh yeah, so you guys, it's that it takes you two minutes, and it's it's so helpful to me. It's so helpful to the cause of what we're trying to do here. We are trying to elevate the industry, we're trying to modernize the industry, right? I'm interviewing business leaders, thought leaders, technology leaders, all the stuff we need to have in our hands in order to elevate the industry to a higher level, and that's what it's about. So please go to iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever you're listening to this, subscribe and review. That would be amazing. Without further ado, number 105, Billy Hofacker. Enjoy the show. All right, Billy, welcome to the show, my friend.

Thank you, brother. I am super, super duper excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you. You you're doing some really, really good stuff for the fitness industry. I mean, something that is is truly a great service to um to fitness professionals. So it's it's an honor to highlight you on the show. And uh there's gonna be a lot of value, listeners, um, for stuff that maybe you don't necessarily like to deal with, which is your finances and uh and how to manage your money. Uh, but we all need it. And uh it's like it's like doing the fundamentals of fitness, right? It's the planks and the squats um that get you to where you want to go. So uh Billy, let's do this, man. Give us give us a bio, give us your your background, and then uh we'll get into the what you're up to now.

Yeah, absolutely. Um yeah, so I've been in the fitness industry uh a long time. Uh I've done everything that most of the fitness entrepreneurs do as they come up. I started off uh working in a commercial club as an independent contractor, and then I went on to everything from working in private studios to a gym on wheels at one point, which was very interesting. Um I ended up I ended up having a studio in my home. So I I bought a home and it has two that two-family house. I converted part of it into a little studio, I did that for a while, and then I actually kind of went part-time with personal training, and I went on to be a full-time professional martial artist for a few years. I believe it was three and a half years. I worked for a uh for a very well-known martial artist and managed facilities for him, and uh it was a great experience, and there was definitely some uh similarities with the personal training business and kind of took what I learned there. And uh ultimately going back now close to eight years, I I took the leap of faith and I started my own facility. And uh since then I haven't looked back. Uh now I own two successful facilities on Long Island. I have a a corporate uh corporate uh wellness as well, and I've also delved into the whole fitness business side. And last year I I released a course uh called Small Facility System, where it was kind of showing our systems how to be really profitable with a small facility. Uh so that was really fun, and uh, as I know we're gonna discuss now, I am uh more excited than ever to really help uh fitness professionals win with their personal finances. It started on the personal side, so I a lot of what I learned uh was on the personal side. So I was probably like a lot of people, I was you know doing what I loved, and I kind of felt that hey, I could either do what I really love doing, or I could maybe try to make a lot of money. I didn't really think I could do both, and uh that's sort of what happened. I was kind of uh you know coasting along, I guess you would say, and yeah, uh I got a knock on the door, and it uh I it was early in the morning, and I'm kind of shocked. I opened the doors, this big dude with a shaved head and goatee and tat it up, and uh look into the street and I see uh my car is hooked up to his tow truck. Uh, he was uh repossessing my car, and it was like a slap in the face. Uh, I didn't even realize that uh things were that bad. That was the that was the real wake-up call because it's one thing to kind of know it's coming, but it was like, wow, things are really that bad. I didn't even realize that I was gonna be losing my car. Uh that led to me finding out uh a lot more how bad things really were. I uh I wasn't I was uh I am and was married at the time, and my wife and I uh looked into things and realized that we were in a bad way. Uh not only was the car repossessed, but we were several months behind on our mortgage. We were at risk of being foreclosed. We had north of six figures in non-mortgage debt, and that ranged in everything from credit cards to student loans to loans with friends and family members, medical bills, I mean, you name it, we had it in terms of debt. Uh, and we were we were being suffocated, and we were we were we were teetering on being hopeless. And what I mean by hopeless is that we we were we weren't sure how things were gonna turn out. We didn't know uh if things were gonna just keep getting worse. Uh it was scary, it was hard on our marriage, we uh we couldn't really talk about money without arguing. And uh that's that's sort of um my life story, a big part of my life story, uh, which has led to where I am now. Uh, I don't know if if you want me to kind of share that or you want to kind of just kind of move on here.

Yeah, I mean, I'm like how you know, was it was it the gym? Was it was it lifestyle choices? Was it like what or is it a collection of all of it? Like how because I know I a lot of people have who don't talk about it, especially on podcasts, have dealt with, you know, yeah, it's not it's not something it's not something most people are highlighting on Instagram. No, no, it's not, but it's real.

It's real, yeah. I guess is is it I guess insidious, is that the right word? Where it was just it was just like like you know, like if I if I do this, you know, a hundred times, it won't matter, but if I do it like a million times, like my hand's probably gonna start bleeding. That's kind of how it was with death by a thousand cuts, and uh, and that's that's when we woke up at that point. We did we honestly, it's crazy because I feel really stupid or I felt really stupid, and we we honestly didn't realize how bad things were. And it's like how, like even now, I feel like I'm a different person. It's like, how could I have not have realized that I needed to make a change? And I guess, like a lot of people, you know, we sweep stuff under the we swept stuff under the carpet, we ignored it, and when you ignore things, they don't get better. And that's true with everything. We know that. We know it's true with our clients and their physiques, we know it's true with our finances, it's true with our marriages and our relationships. Uh, the those those are the I mean we know that's the those are the traits of people that have characters that they they they deal with those things as hard as they are. Um, and that's that's kind of what it took for us. I I for for a while I was beating myself up, uh, but at the end of the day, it made me who I am, and it's kind of like that cliche, but it's true. Like, I don't think I would have made the changes necessary had it not gotten that bad. And now I've been coaching a lot of people who are you know struggling financially, fitness uh professionals. And sometimes it's I I it's like our clients, it's the ones that that you know, they go into the doctor and the doctor told them, Listen, you're gonna die if you don't make a change. Those are the people that oftentimes make those changes and they put in the hard work, but it's the ones that are like, hey, you know what, you're you're just 15-20 pounds overweight, and uh you're you know, you're probably somewhat okay, like they're not as motivated. No, I had like no choice. Like I had, I want to just make sure I have the time frame correct. I have a daughter that is seven and a half, so this was like right around the time where we were starting our family. We now have three little girls, and it was like I I have a wife and a daughter, and I have no freaking choice. I have to make a change, and this is not the life that I want. I will not tolerate just being suffocated by this debt. I got very angry at it, and ultimately it led to the fuel that I needed to make some of the changes that I've made.

Wow. So, how did you get out of it? What tells walk through that through that process? I mean, it's um, you know, I was thinking about like, oh, wait, what a great, you know, way to get into consulting. I'm like, well, the people you're working with, they don't have money to pay for consulting. Oh no, you know, five, ten grand a month in consulting fees. But this isn't the market you're going to. So I guess, you know, that's just a side thought. But no, it's good. How'd you get out of this?

I have some thoughts on that. Uh, the well, uh as far as how I got out, it was it in hindsight, it was a it was a step-by-step process. I did some things that um that just really led to the great success that I've had, and it started with, I think, like with any change, it started. I know this is not necessarily what you're looking for, but I feel like it has to be said, it started with that decision. That's the key. It started with that decision that was right here. It started with my wife and I getting to that point where we said, we are we are going to change. We don't want to raise our kids in the same way that we were, which was very much uh false negative views towards money and just all these twisted mindsets. We want something different, and that's where it started. And once you do that, once you what is it? It's like the um the Victor Frankel quote once your why is strong enough, you'll endure anyhow. Yeah, and that's what it was for us. Uh so then, but then there were practical steps. I mean, that started with the vision, like what what what were we trying to do? What were our our goals, both short term and long term? And I I know we we had a I still have it. We have a journal, notebook journal, where we started scribbling out you know everything from our feelings about money to our goals and attitudes and the steps we needed to take. We put motivational quotes and scriptures and we made our vision very real over time, and we still have it. We have it's not the sexiest thing, uh, probably for most wives, but we have like um like poster boards in our in our closet door with our goals and uh uh you know charts and all this stuff of where we're at, and it kept us motivated over time. Uh, there wasn't a lot of communication between us. We still do a monthly meeting. Uh it's uh we do a we call it a family meeting, and we talk about uh now we've added several topics to it, but the finances is a big part of it. I think not being on the same page as if you're married as your spouse is uh is is is very problematic. Uh so that was one of the keys was getting on the same page. Uh when you're it's hard enough when you're on the same page, and when you're not, it's just very difficult. So that was that was and that was there's more to that and how we did that, but that's that's part of it. And then um then it was just hey, let's let's make a plan. And I think one of the issues is kind of like fitness, and the the the similarities with our training clients is are uncanny because I believe with fitness, a lot of the uh issue is that it gets overcomplicated. Everybody's trying to figure out the perfect program. Right. Well, what is the perfect program? The perfect program is the one that you do and the one that makes sense and that you can actually follow. I don't care how great the program is and how much science is behind it, but if the person doesn't do it, it doesn't do any bit of good. So same thing here, we need a simple plan, and that's what we uh and that's what we that's what we followed. It was a simple plan. We we use what I now call uh a spending plan. Uh the spending plan is just really it's just telling your money where to go uh on paper or on a uh on a spreadsheet or however you want to do it. It's it's just being planned. It's it's this this uh a lot of people think that it's something that's gonna be very limiting, it's gonna be I compare it to kind of like a system in a business. You know, people think that, oh, when the trainer has a system they have to follow, like you know, greet the client this way, do the program this way, customer service, you know, people falsely believe that that's gonna create a lack of freedom. But we all know that what that does is actually it creates more freedom within that context of what you're trying to do. And it's the same thing there. When you plan out your spending, you actually have more freedom because you realize how much money was going to things that you really didn't need or possibly even want, and you start cleaning that up, you start getting organized with your finances, and you feel like you've got a raise because there's all that extra money that wow, now I can actually put this to where I want it to go. Uh and we had to make we had to make a plan uh to to to get out of our debt. We had so much debt, and we we use what's called the debt snowball. Um, if anybody's familiar, I know uh we learned it from Dave Ramsey, who's uh it it's it's it's counter, it's somewhat counterintuitive. The debt snowball uh is is where you list out all of your debts from lowest to highest. So you have your whatever student loan, student loan, you know, we had like we had like a long list of things, uh credit cards, and rather than paying off the high interest rate first, which is how many people approach it, and it makes sense on paper, like why not pay off the things where you're paying the highest interest because you're losing the most money. This is more from a psychological, emotional standpoint, where you're you're kind of at that point where you're you're borderline discouragement, you're kind of in a desperate state. So you need to start racking up those wins. You need to start feeling like, wow, I there's light at the end of this tunnel. And I'm telling you that this system works because right now I'm coaching people through it, and people that were hopeless are now feeling like I don't have to be suffocated by my debt, I don't have to live this life where somebody just asked the other day in a group I'm in, is it is it actually possible to make it? And I'm like, Well, what do you mean by making it? And he said, Well, actually being able to pay for my bills and having some money at the end of the month and not feel like I'm a slave to my business and I have to work 60 hour weeks. And I it was like sad to me. He was asking me a dead serious question. He genuinely thought that it was not possible to have a better life, a life where you can do some of the things you actually want to do, where you could have a great and growing business, you can have the facility of your dreams. He he he he wasn't sure that was possible. And I short him it was, uh, but that's that's the way that people think when they're in those positions. So it's important to start racking up those wins and that momentum builds. And with the debt snowball, I'll try to make this simple. Once you pay off your smallest balance, not your not your minimum payment, but your smallest balance, you then add the minimum payment of that debt to your next lowest balance. Right. So now you can see the snowball, and just imagine because most people have some smaller balances that are just kind of they're just kind of hanging around. Yeah, they've been there forever, and people just kind of think that's just the way their life is, that they just have these balances. But no, you knock those suckers out, and then you add those minimum val um payments to the next debt, and then before you know it, when you start cranking through those, it doesn't take long. Two, three, four. I mean, we had our biggest debt, if you can imagine, it started off as like at like sixty something thousand. But by the time we were, it was at the it was the last debt that we had, and it was thirty thousand dollars. So our last debt that we had after paying everything else off with the debt snowball was thirty thousand dollars. And that might sound completely overwhelming. And guess what? It really wasn't for us because we saw the power of this snowball, and we by the time we got to that, we were throwing so much money at that debt that we actually paid it off pretty quickly. It was less, it was it was it was well inside of a year, and had then we obviously that freed up a ton of cash, but it was all the power of that momentum that we said, this is this is happening. We saw it, we knew it. It was just a matter of time, and then finally we we paid it off and we were able to celebrate, and we went to uh you know a nice dinner and celebrated, and it was it was an awesome feeling. Uh, but that was a step. And then and then you know, then there's more steps. We you know looked at retirement and college planning for our girls and uh and things like that. And um that was the kind of the plan in the nutshell.

Yeah. Did you ever see the movie What About Bob?

Yeah, you can't even do it.

Yeah, yeah.

He's not gone, he's never gone. Yeah, yeah.

It's so good. And uh, you know, the classic line is that baby steps, right? He's like he's like, just take one small step, you know, in the direction, and then you can do it. And it's it's so similar to fitness. You know, I have a story of you know, a gentleman I worked with for a long time who came in and never really spent much time in the gym, um, very severely um overweight. And you know, we just start with like, hey, let's just meet for 10 minutes every week. You know, versus like, okay, we're gonna start off with three days a week, you're gonna, you know, squat, squat, hinge, press, pull, right? Like that, it's too much. Um, but human behavior and behind all these things, we always forget, like, we can have the most beautiful programs either for fitness or for finance. Um, beautiful designs, right? Of like, hey, here's the architecture of how we're gonna get there. And but it's it's it's human nature that we have to understand and how people work, and and you know, what you said, the mindset around money is something that I would like to dive into because I don't I don't fully understand, you know, like people say, Well, what's your relationship with money? Right. I'm like, well, I don't, I never really thought about it. Um, do you do you dive into that and how people work, how the relationships with money are?

Yeah, I do. It's so important. I was just talking to one of my clients, I guess you would say. She's going through the program and she's doing really well. And we were talking, and she was she was saying how when she grew up, it was like I I don't know if her her her parents were super. Successful, but whatever the how however things played out, she was taught, and a lot of this this stuff is verbal and a lot of it is non-verbal. It's like, hey, what did your parents sort of recognize? Did they did they did they think did they did they did they say or did they act like it was wrong to have money? Like if people that have money are jerks, or did they act like it was impossible to get ahead financially? Like did they just kind of act, you know, that's that's that's something that rich people can do. Like for us, like we have to like just this is our this is just the way it is for us, and it sucks, but that's just you know, again, with words or without those things matter, and that creates our mindset as we get older, it's a big part of how we turn out. We all have these these mindsets from our genogram or from our family uh of origin, and with her, it was it was like she has some siblings that are like uber successful, right? And so, for whatever reason, that created a mindset in her that she wasn't good enough. So now what she's doing, and before it wasn't even conscious, she was equating her value or her worth as a person with the money she had. And that's that's that's something that that's very dangerous because that'll you'll never be happy with that mindset. Because when is it enough? It's never enough. I'm sure we can relate to that. Um, it's like the you you reach that that line that you were trying to cross, and then the line moves. Like, wait a second, I I was there, but then it moved it moves again. I remember I remember thinking that if I make 50,000 a year as a personal trainer, man, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna be like happy. And then then the line moved, then it was more, and then it was more, and then it was but it we have we have we have to understand that that that's never gonna do it. Yeah, we're never gonna we are never going to satisfy an internal insecurity with an external result. Yeah. And then so with her, it was really just just honing in on her mindset, having her process that, finding out where it came from, and then to start to reframe that. And that's a huge part of this. I think that's one of the biggest parts. I don't think it's the kind of like you were saying, it's not the architecture. I think it really is it's what's underneath that matters most. We have to, you know, that whole thing, like, you know, we have to uh believe it to achieve it. And I it's true, we'll we'll never outperform our own self-image. Like I remember thinking things like, you know, like like like again, it wasn't even something I verbalized, but I remember just thinking as a uh student, like I would like see the smart kids, and I would just think, like, oh, that's really cool. Like the athletes, the athletes. Now they were athletes and they were also good, uh, they were also very academic. And I was like, wow, that's awesome, they could do both. And like I just, it was, I don't know, it was from my family of origin. I never thought of myself as I can why can't I do both? Like, there's no difference between that person and I am, but I am automatically assuming that they could do it, but I can't. So for that reason, I fell behind and I goofed off and I chased girls, and then I got to college, and I'm like, you know, what am I doing? Like, I I don't I don't know what I need to know to succeed. So I had to make a decision at that point and say, I am going to do whatever it takes. So I had to take this is something else you won't see on Instagram. I had to take a remedial math class because I goofed off my last years of high school, and I and I'm going to this class, and finally I'm I'm getting ahead, and I'm spending I'm staying at school from morning until late at night at extra help, and I'm I want to be a physical therapist, so I had to catch up on my sciences and my math. Finally, I'm sitting in the I'm taking a pre-calculus class that I needed for for PT requirements, and I'm I go to my professor's office for for special health office hours, Dr. Skernick, and I uh and we're sitting here and we're working through a problem and I'm asking him questions, and he looks up at me and he says, you know, Billy, I this is 20 years ago, mind you, I do this every Tuesday and Thursday for two hours, and you are the only person that comes. He said, You seem like the kind of guy that can do anything you put your mind to. And right then and there, for the first time in my entire life, I started to believe that I could do something with myself on the academic side. Right then and there, it's all it took. From that point forward, I became the kid, the student, not right then and there, but after some time, people were coming up to me. I never forget, it was such a surreal moment. Like a a girl came up to me and it was like it was like an advanced chemistry question. She was asking me, and I was explaining it to her, and then after I was like, wow, if this girl only knew what I was like a year ago. But the the the the bottom line, I know I went off on a bit of a tangent there. No, it's good. The bottom line is that A, you can change. You can change, you can change. You are responsible for changing, nobody else is going to do it. You have to decide, and you can do it. It just takes that decision, and then it's the power of that belief. I had thankfully Dr. Skernik, and I I actually wrote him a note this past year thanking him, and it was awesome. He wrote back, yeah. Uh he that that that again that was life-changing.

Yeah, yeah, that's great, man. And it's uh it's interesting how those just the words of someone else can make you aware of the actions that you're actually doing and then the potential thereof, right? If you just reapply the same, the same effort and energy. And yeah, I just as you're speaking, I just start thinking about my own relationship with money. And I'm I'm so lucky that I have a wife who keeps me so damn disciplined on.

You are very lucky, my friend. Yeah, I am. I really.

Yeah. And it's um, you know, you talk about that that kind of that line moving of like, you know, um, if you make more money, you'll just adjust and you'll just spend more. Or that that let you know, but I found it works both ways. You know, it's interesting is that, you know, since I sold the gym, you know, we walked away with some money, which was about 14 months ago. Um, but as I knew it would take time for me to build my online um presence and and do the things that we want to do to sustain a lifetime of of mobility and freedom that that we enjoy right now. And, you know, so we we had to lay back and kind of you know lean up and and work on her salary for a while because we knew that's the that's the sure thing, you know. Of course, you know, something could change with her job situation. So we we kind of lowered, I don't know, I don't want to say lowered our standard of living, but just lowered our expense of living. You know what? We're just as happy, if not happier. And um we've got rid of all the shit, right? Got rid of all the crap in our lives, um, at least most of it is still a lot of stuff. But uh life is simplified. And I found that, you know, you can move both ways. And I'm sure, you know, as things are picking up for me, um, you know, we'll probably just adjust the same thing. But what nice about it is you kind of figure out what really makes you happy and what you need. And you don't need much, you know. Um, yeah, we like to go out to dinner every once in a while. We like pizza, you know, um, you know, wherever we we travel to with our destinations, um, you know, because we move every three months. And, you know, we want to go out and try the local fair, right? So we save money for that. And it's just a simpler budgetary thing. And uh life, and it does provide, we have a ton of freedom, dude. Our life is super free because we have some discipline. Yeah, that's it. And your life is is is is very well hit. So let's talk about your system. Um, give us insight. So, how does this work? Uh, let's say, you know, let's come with an avatar, right? Like who's your most common, you know, type of person that you work with, and maybe you know, give us some examples of how this whole thing unfolds.

Yeah, sure. The I I think the ideal person to go through the program, and I think it would help almost you know anybody wherever they are in the spectrum. I've worked with people that have no debt and that they are looking just for just to improve. You know, they even have retirement and they're doing a lot of good things, but they maybe don't have a a solid plan. They've just been kind of lucky, maybe they have a spouse that's super helpful, whatever the case is, and and I think it would work really well for them. But I think the ideal person is somebody who has a vision, who wants more, and they're at this point they're struggling, they are being uh they they they they maybe they they can't they're they're barely surviving. They're they're they're they're they're they're doing things and they're trudging along and they're feeling kind of disappointed in uh this is not how they uh wanted things to go. Um, and they know that uh they have a vision and they want more. So they want, for example, I talk a lot about margin, and to me, what that means is basically what you were saying is you have the freedom and the options to do more. So it's somebody who says, I don't want to just be a slave to my business, charging away working 60 hours a week so that I could barely make ends meet. I feel that I deserve to work as hard as I do to a better life, to have more freedom, to have that margin, to be able to do the things that I want to do. So that's sort of like the mindset of the ideal person. And it could be somebody who has their own club, they they they maybe recently opened, and they I think these are really valuable things to learn early on. Uh, I was thankful that I started with a lot of these principles early on in my current training business. I learned a lot of these lessons beforehand, and uh, but also for somebody who's been in it for years who really just needs to uh start over in a sense financially. I I think any anybody along that that line would be uh a great fit for the program. And one of the things that I think makes it as valuable uh as it is is the accountability because we know, like with our clients, like you could probably I mean, no one's gonna love me saying this, especially the the trainer geeks that are that are watching. I mean, most people would probably have to agree that if the average person that wanted to experience some fat loss and feel better, if they had a little bit of common sense and they followed a workout they found online or in a magazine, and even the nutrition principles they found online or in a magazine, they would probably do okay as long as they followed through and they did the actual steps. Same thing with fine with this, it's no different. The average person, if they were to make a plan, follow the plan, they would get ahead. But it's like, why does anybody need a coach? One thing we know is that people do better with coaches, they do better with accountability, and that's one thing when you asked me about what I did, and I missed I missed that step. Is I had a lot of accountability built in in several different ways. I had a coach, I went to a program, I I had my wife, I had friends, we had all this accountability built in, and uh it's the same thing here. So there's there's there's there's tons of accountability. Uh so we make it as bail-proof as possible. And uh I just can say that the people that are going through it, and this is not meant to be a sales pitch, but they're they're they're they're the testimonies are amazing. People who were hopeless are now hopeful, and they're already in short period of time, already have a plan, already paying down debt, and on their way to financial freedom.

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, it's it's uh, you know, at least with my experience and and the experience I've had with business owners in the fitness industry is, you know, everyone looks at top line, right? Like, you know, how much revenue you have, right? And you know, it's sometimes it's it's really impressive number. But then you get down to it, start seeing the layers underneath, and it's it's a hot mess. And that's why we were talking about like profit first, you know, and some of the other things. And I I implemented that and saved me probably immediately uh, you know, that one trick of like, okay, just cancel all of your credit cards and get a new credit card number. Yeah. Um, you know, and that's like for people listening, this is a great thing because it saved me probably somewhere between one and two grand a month of just pure profit, um, which was in my pocket, right? And it was just, you know, the what I call those warts on your business of things that are just always there, reoccurring billing, you're not too sure, but you have so many transactions going on in your business, you don't see them. Um, so it's it's uh interesting. And what happens is if you cancel and and something comes up, um, you know, maybe you you lose service for something on a day or two, you're like, okay, I really needed that.

Yeah.

Uh otherwise um, like, screw it, don't worry about it. You won't need it anymore. And you know, there's so many little things, but it's it's everyone's chasing the revenue, everyone's chasing the new clients, everyone's chasing everything. But what if what if you just have what you have now and that's gonna only only be it? What do you do? Right? Well, you follow a system like yours, right? You you optimize it and you find out you have a whole lot more than you thought, most likely.

Yes, yeah, that that that actually triggers a couple of thoughts. One is when I started making progress, I was making less income than when I got into the mess I was in. So collectively, we were doing over six figures before when we got into the mess that we got in. And as you know, as a startup business, I was I was not making that much, and we made more progress because of the reason you're saying. And as far as profit first, I could not agree more. Top line, I'm sure you've heard you've heard this, top line feeds the ego, bottom line feeds the family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. That's great. And it's it's just, you know, it goes like uh, you know, I can give so many examples, especially from personal friends, you know, my myself and my wife included, you know, when when everything was really humming and we lived in Santa Barbara, California, you know, mortgage was four grand a month on a you know 1,100 square foot home. Like you just start thinking how these things add up, but like, you know, you look at our top line, people are like, oh, you guys are doing great. Like, are we? Because it doesn't feel like it. You know, and I have a friend who's um, you know, very successful, and both him and his wife work for Salesforce in San Francisco, and that you know, you look at their total income, you're like, whoo, you guys are doing amazing. And they're like, really? Because we don't feel like it. And I think that's you know, it's that that really, because we don't feel like it kind of person that can use a lot of help. It's not just the people who are struggling to make ends meet.

Yeah, great, great point. Absolutely. So there's uh one of my favorite uh finance authors is a guy named Thomas Stanley, and he's essentially has dedicated his whole uh working life to studying the habits of financially successful people, and he looks at net worth, and a lot of it has to do with income versus versus assets, essentially, and a lot of times it's very disproportional. So, like you're saying, the people that are making a ton of money, they're just spending according to what they're making. And unless you're like uber, uber, uber, uber successful, like I'm talking about like celebrity level, like if you're a Jay-Z, you can drive around a Maserati and still have extreme wealth. But for the average person, and I I mean anywhere in that, even that what the average person considers a high level of income, it's you can have you can't have it all. You can't have the big house, the the exotic vacations, the designer clothes, the top, top shelf spirits, Rolex, and have security or financial freedom. It's it's kind of like one or the other. So the the the the the the his one of his popular books is The Millionaire Next Door, and it's goes back to what you said before in that it's being content. And so my wife and I, just like you and your wife, we learned that hey, we were just as happy packing up lunch and going on a picnic than we were going to a fancy restaurant that we really couldn't afford. So it's doing those kinds of things and being happy with the nice, reliable, slightly used car versus the the Maserati or whatever it is. Again, there's nothing wrong with those things. If you have the money and you want to and you wanna you want those things, but it's really determining the difference between the need and the want. Uh, because a lot of people are very confused over those things. I need a brand new Mercedes. You don't need a you don't need that. You want that, and that's okay, but don't say that you need it. And then um, yeah, so uh the other the other uh title of uh his book that I love is Stop Acting Rich. Uh that's a great one. And it's exactly as it sounds. It's it's it's hey, let's let's uh slow down, slow your role, and just you know, if you as simple as if you don't have the money for it, then don't buy it. That would that would help a lot of people if they just followed that simple uh uh common sense advice.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. And it's you know, so much of it is built in for our it's just our our hard wiring for status.

Right?

We just really want, I mean, if if people listen, I'm sure a lot of people on here listen to Russell Brunson from ClickFunnels and his marketing materials and his you know thoughts on how you have to you you essentially speak to people's need for status. And uh one of my favorite things, I'm sure you've heard of FOMO, right? Fear of missing out. Um the new one I've heard I've been using quite often is FOCU, uh fear of keeping up, right? How this is just systematically kind of built into our societies, you know, and it's uh it's crazy. And you know, it if you can, if you're once I guess first step one is always awareness, right? If you're aware once you can, I think, and I think you do most likely an amazing job of helping people become aware of like, hey, this is what's going on, right? If you're if you're realizing you're you're chasing whatever the the Johnsons are doing down the block because they appear to be, you know, super happy and they have the Mercedes and they have all these things, you don't like most of the time, these people are a hot mess, you know, when it comes down to it, you know. And uh, you know, like some of the most successful people I know in my upbringing, um, I didn't know that their family was so financially successful until I hit my 30s because they were so humble, right? You know, it's just uh, you know, I think of this guy, Tony Nicoletti, and his family, and they just, you know, little I know this this family is just sitting on, you know, I won't say anything, but just a lot of money, but they live so humbly every day. And meanwhile, you know, the one down the block, uh, you know, with the nice Mercedes is now they're not doing so great, right? Um, so yeah, it's it's so much of it is is mindset and society's influence on yeah.

And the the the one thing that's awesome. The one thing I want to add is that I don't I I would really not want anybody to make a mistake and think that like I'm preaching, like you have to like sacrifice a happy life, because that's not what either one of us is saying. What Thomas Stanley studies and what I've experienced is that people that are living within their means and they're enjoying the simple things, they're enjoying the relationships in their lives and the experiences, they are genuinely happier. It's not like we're just saying that so that we're tricking you into saving more money. It's like no, but you are genuinely a happier person when you're more content with the simple things. And there's nothing wrong with nice things, but it will not create happiness. Never, ever, ever.

No. It can give you momentary glimpses, it can give you injections of happiness. Yeah, right, for sure. And you know, there's certain things that I want that are expensive. You know, uh, if you saw how much I spent on ski gear, Billy, you'd be like, holy cow, this guy's nice. But to me, it makes me really happy because I use it all the time, right? At least four or five months out of the year. I know it's just sitting there. But there's like, you know, you gotta figure out really like if you are gonna go, you know, spend the money on the things that um, you know, I would just double check and make sure that it's truly stuff that makes you happy. How often do you use it? That's that's my thing. It's like it's something I use every day.

Yeah, and then think about what you're saying too. It's it's it's it's something that you're doing, that you're probably doing as a family, right? You're probably or doing it with people that you like. You're doing something that's healthy for you. It's it's like you're saying, it's great happiness. So that's that to me is is is a little bit different than some other things. And again, it's not to judge anybody, but yeah, it's it's like you're saying, it's discovering what it is that uh that you are really passionate about, and that yeah, I have plenty of things that I spend on that maybe a lot of people wouldn't, but that that that's that's me. That is something you have to figure out.

Yeah, well, it's your values. Yes. And that's the thing is is everyone, you know, needs. I think if um one of the most influential things I've been taught by a mentor was James Fitzgerald, and he really got me honing in on values and not just my own values, which was you know, if you really look at your values, you know, what is it? It's like if you look at your bank account or your calendar, uh, you can tell exactly what someone values. Um, you know, that's that's really having a keen understanding of yourself, but then starting to see how other people's values and how those, you know, how those reflect, especially motivating somebody, you know, to to be fitter or financially more healthy. Um, you know, and really like that, I know it sounds like an obscure thing, but you can go and check out Dr. D. Martini um and some of his work he's done on value systems. You can even take a test he has online. That's really eye-opening. And you know, once you start honing And understanding what you truly value, then you can spend your money there and you'll be perfectly happy. But what happens is we just spend money on what we think we should value. Yes, that's huge. And then that's when we get into unhappiness and uh and and all that. And yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. You're right about that because I did the opposite. I did what you know, I did what uh what everybody does. I got married, so I needed two nice reliable cars, I needed uh the the house and all the things in it. We needed to go to Disney because we were young fam. So it's like that I did, that's what I'm supposed to do. That's what everybody does, but it didn't make me happy. It just it just created a mess out of my life because I didn't have my my stuff in order.

Yeah.

Absolutely right.

Yeah. So Billy, let's let's um I think we we went pretty philosophical there. I know. Which is good. It's important.

If you're still with us, then uh yeah, yeah, no, it's important.

It really is because I think you know, people want those, those top, you know, just give me that one thing, Billy, that'll make me financially more free. Like it's a process, you know, just like anything else. Um so you know, with the program you're doing now, where where do people get on board? They want to find out more about it. Where do you send them?

Okay, so I'm gonna suggest you visit this website. It's your fitnessmoneycoach.com. Your fitnessmoneycoach.com. Um, and check it out there, and you'll be able to find whatever info you need. And then I'm very accessible, so just reach out to me. I'm on Facebook, and I guess that's pretty clear. Yeah, my number, but it might be a little weird.

Awesome. Well, Billy, it's um I I appreciate coming on being so authentic and telling your story, honestly. It's it's really cool that that you feel comfortable doing that because obviously, you know, that situation, and it's just another example of like when people go through the hardest times, they're actually being set on a road with for purpose, right? And uh and now you're turning that around, you're helping a lot of people, and it's such a you know, I from for me and all of our audience, I appreciate what you're doing for the fitness industry and uh and keep it up, man. Awesome, Eric, right back at you, brother. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, Billy Hovacker. Hey fitness fans, don't leave yet. It's your host, Eric Malzone, and I have a quick favor to ask, actually, three favors. So, number one, if you're a fan of our show, I ask you to do something that takes under three minutes. Go to iTunes, please, and subscribe to our show. Please, please, please. It means so much to us, it's so important. And then give us a favorable review. We would really, really appreciate it. And uh, I can't tell you how much it means and helps us out. So I know it takes two minutes of your day, and uh, it means a lot to us. So please do that. Number two, go to our YouTube channel or Fitness Marketing Alliance, and uh please subscribe to our YouTube channel there. Number three, if you like this episode or any of the episodes that we've released, share it on social. That's huge, that's a big deal for us. And when we put a lot of work into these episodes uh trying to give you great actionable content uh for the fitness industry. So that would mean a lot. And that's it. So we have some big plans coming up for this show. I'll be talking about that in the next couple episodes. But thank you so much for listening. It means so much. And uh, if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from everybody. Eric, E R I C at Fitness MarketingAliance.com