Dr. Tania Elliott - What If Fitness IS the New Primary Care? And What If That's a Good Thing?

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[00:00:33] futureoffitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. Dr. Tania Elliott, welcome to the Future of Fitness. How are you? Thanks for having me. I'm good. This is gonna be a lot of fun. I've been doing the research over the past week on everything that you do. You and I met briefly, I think it was in Los Angeles at the Connected Health and Fitness Summit. But you're bold in what you say. You have strong content to put out. I really urge people to go check it out.

[00:01:03] You know, you are a board certified physician, three time chief medical officer. Is that right? Did I get that right? Three times? You do a lot of consulting now. You obviously have a very, very strong media presence. But don't worry, I'll still take it easy on you here. I know this is very new to you being interviewed. Oh, no, no, no. That's a joke. But there's a lot to talk about here. And I want to spend our time in a very useful way. So here's the first question I have for you. As the fitness industry is evolving into, you know, this healthcare paradigm, I think it's kind of finding its niche wherever it is, right?

[00:01:31] But fundamentally, we can all agree if you're fit, you're probably healthier for the most part. Right? Yeah. Easy to say. Okay. I agree. But we're starting to see more and more in these larger, we were just talking about Equinox, talking about, you know, Dr. Glory Winters at YMCA, like chief health officer, chief medical officer tends to be coming more into the conversations for these traditionally fitness forward companies and brands, whether it's gyms, you know, health club chains, whatever it may be.

[00:01:57] So as you're seeing this evolve, is that a noticing that you're seeing as well? And what's your feeling on it? Are you excited about it? Do you think it's the right direction? Give us your insights on that. So I think it's a step in the right direction. I think that, but it's got to be done right. And so right now, what I'm seeing is just everybody scrambling for a doctor to get a stamp of clinical credibility. But like, what does that actually mean? And why is that important?

[00:02:24] And I guess it goes back to, there is a lot of misinformation or inaccurate information that exists in the health and wellness and fitness space. And so the thinking is likely, I mean, I'm not in the heads of people at Equinox, but the thinking is likely, okay, well, if we get this credibility by having a board of female physicians that are supporting our initiatives, then, you know, people will believe us, right?

[00:02:51] It's kind of like a marketing, a PR play. I see it as an opportunity to do so much more, right? Like if you just take a step back and you say like, you know, what, what can the wellness industry do for healthcare overall?

[00:03:05] In my mind, it's the top of the funnel. It's what traditional healthcare and, you know, I was at Aetna in the past. I was at Ascension, a really large health system. Like they really struggle with patient engagement, right? And they really struggle with prevention and sort of optimizing people so that they don't end up getting sick.

[00:03:25] So traditional healthcare is just really good at being there when you're sick, when you need it, when you need a prescription, when you need a procedure, when you need a surgery, when you need to be in the hospital. But then there's this huge gap of like overall well people, but a huge opportunity. Like we're kind of sitting back in traditional healthcare being like, okay, well, this is a ticking time bomb. We'll just wait till they get sick. And then we'll engage when we get, when that person is ill.

[00:03:50] And the whole system, I promise I'll kind of get back to your first question, but the whole system is set up for medical cost savings. So the dollars are spent in the people that are already sick. So if I have, if I'm at a huge health plan and I've got $100 million healthcare spend on asthma and I've got $10 million to do something about it, am I going to say, let's prevent asthma and people who don't have it yet?

[00:04:13] Or let me address this $100 million cost by investing $10 million and working to reduce my asthma spend. So where does that leave prevention and wellness and health optimization and longevity and living longer? Nowhere. Similarly with primary care, right? Primary care is a loss leader for traditional healthcare systems. Like they don't make money. And unfortunately we're in a fee-for-service world, like value-based care hasn't taken off yet.

[00:04:37] So it's a loss leader for them. And so like who goes for their annual wellness visit? And then there's data to say like, you don't even need to have an annual wellness visit with your doctor. And guess what? 30% of the general population doesn't even have a primary care doctor. And you know what happens when you go to your PCP. They're sitting there with their back to you, typing on the computer, clicking a bunch of buttons for something called meaningful use so that this wellness visit gets reimbursed.

[00:05:01] But they're not saying like, how's your energy levels? How's your fatigue? Like, you know, are you getting the right nutrition? Are you physically active? And like, tell me about your everyday life and how's your sleep, right? That conversation is not happening within primary care. So there's a huge gap, right? And this gap exists, like this patient engagement gap exists, right?

[00:05:21] Like the stickiness is missing in traditional healthcare because our focus is all on sick care. Our focus is on addressing a huge healthcare spend of people that are already sick. So we're not focusing time, energy, attention into prevention and wellness and keeping the broader population healthy. If you ask me, I think life insurance companies should probably be the ones jumping on the bandwagon to like, you know, focus on wellness and prevention.

[00:05:45] So then where does the fitness industry come into this? In my mind, it's the top of the funnel. It is like that engagement opportunity to say like, hey, you are physically in our gyms. You are working out with us. We're going to be talking with you about nutrition. We're going to get you moving. We're going to do all this stuff. So now this person is engaged, then enter in a chief medical officer type of role as well as the ability to have direct-to-consumer laboratory testing, right?

[00:06:11] And so now this person can essentially be optimized, but then have a connection point to traditional healthcare if they need it. So in my mind, primary care doesn't exist. It's a loss leader and it's checking a bunch of boxes. It is wellness, longevity, prevention within communities, within a fitness community or some another, you know, maybe it's a sauna studio or whatever it is, right? That's actually the primary entry point. You layer in the opportunity to do direct-to-consumer laboratory tests.

[00:06:41] You layer in an ability to do a telehealth visit with a provider, right? And now you're able to identify the people that are outside of the norm that are at risk, pull them into traditional healthcare. And then the people that are doing well, great, let's continue to optimize them. Let's continue to get them physically active, have them eating right, provide that surround sound support, provide them with the feedback loop through wearable devices.

[00:07:06] And now you have a generally healthy population with that connection point to traditional healthcare if done right. So that's where I think like the real opportunity is, know whether or not that's actually going to happen. Right now it feels a lot more like a perceived value of like, hey, we're credible because we've got doctors involved. But I really think that there's an opportunity to truly shift and change the care model. That's amazing. And as a, you know, as a 17 year fitness industry veteran, like this is what we've always wanted.

[00:07:33] We, what you just described, Dr. Elliott is like, that's what everyone's like, yes, like, yeah, give me that. That's what we want. We want to be at the forefront of preventative health, right? But it's just been, it's been a slog to get it there. It's like, you know, you see some really cool models popping up now. Monarch Health Clubs is one of them or Carbon World Health, right? Where it's kind of like the whole thing's integrated from the start. There's no like, it's not like bolting on something that was just something that was already existing. From the start, cleanly built specifically for this thing or this model. So let me ask you this.

[00:08:03] If you were going to, someone was like, hey, Dr. Elliott, we want you to build the health club of the future, right? This is, this is what you want. What would, what would that look like in your mind's eye? What would need to have to happen? And I know that's a big question. I don't know if you've thought of it before, but you know, for the member experience, are they members? Are they patients? Like the whole thing, what would that look like? I think they're members. I don't think they're considered patients. Like I think we're going to see more and more like traditional healthcare, like staying in their lane.

[00:08:29] And like in the future, like I've always said this, like primary care offices are going to be like blockbuster video. We're going to be like, well, what were those things? Wait, what? You had to like show up and like get a DVD and then bring it home and put it, what is that? You know, like that's sort of like, I think outpatient care is going to go away and we're going to have like freestanding facilities for radiology, places where you can go for your blood work or blood work in the comfort of your home or blood work at a, at a point of care site, like a, like a club or what have you.

[00:08:58] And then the doctors are going to quote, it says, but I'm a doctor. So I can say it stay in their lane and be there for when people are really, really sick. Like I think traditional healthcare should just like step away from like preventive health and wellness. And then we need to better organize the wellness space and wellness shouldn't be a destination. It should be a way of life. Now, granted the fitness club is a destination, but what it has there is community. It's got connection. It's got essentially the pillars of longevity, right? Like want to avoid social isolation.

[00:09:27] The community and connection is really important. That's also why I think like any longevity company or, you know, practice or whatever that's fully online is not an answer. Right. Because I think it's a hybrid model because you need that in person. We know that like social isolation and loneliness is an independent risk factor for mortality, for dementia, for depression, all of that. So like you need that hub, right? You need that connection point. That's how human beings, like we've lived in villages for like all of evolution, right? Like, so you need that hub.

[00:09:56] So I think that's that. And like, it is a way of life. I want to be careful to not over measure everything and have protocols and, you know, science back this X, Y and Z for everything. Like, let's just keep it simple. Like we need to move our bodies. We need to be doing strength training, but that's like we need to keep our muscles active. You know, we need to be doing that. We need to be doing those things within the context of community. But like I want to be careful as to not overly biohack and over measure, overly measure everything because then we get fixated on numbers.

[00:10:26] We have to have healthy eating. Right. And so it's a heck of a lot easier to do that at your club where like all the thinking has been taken out of it. I would love to see something that also has like a local farm right nearby. And there's a little bit more ownership over like the nutritional aspects and nutritional component of stuff versus like takeout or like a smoothie bar, like a real intentional nutritional aspect or component to it. But then you essentially have all of it. You've got connection. You've got community. You've got physical activity.

[00:10:53] And you've got nutrition, you know, and like that's a way of life. And that should be covered by all health plans as something that's a way of life. And then, like I said, as long as we've got a regular like lab testing or what have you to check your biomarkers, then you can get just get pulled in to traditional health care. So I guess the last piece of this model, this care model of the future is those connection points to traditional health care through referrals. Right.

[00:11:22] Because that's how traditional health care currently works. Like a primary care doctor just refers to a specialist. So we need to have piping and connection points to specialists when needed. So when that biomarker comes back and everybody's using AI anyway to look at what their blood work results are. But maybe you want to have that intermediate step of a telehealth visit with a provider, what have you, who now has all this data and information from how you've been living your life.

[00:11:46] And then if something's outside of range, you have a clean connection point where all of your records and all of your information is transferred over to the sick care system, the traditional health care system. Oh, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Beautiful. And, you know, it resonates right now because as of this morning, I had this longstanding Achilles ankle issue. It's just been around forever. And it always comes up in different ways depending on what season it is and what I'm doing as far as activities. And finally, I was like, you know, I woke up this morning and talked to Claude, right? Like a lot of people do. Like, hey, what should I do? It's like, it's time, dude.

[00:12:15] It's like, dude, it's time to go see a specialist, right? So I have to call my primary care. I have to set an appointment with him, right? And he's a great guy. He's a great dude. But everything you describe is very much the experience you have. You sit there. It's on his laptop. It's more of a gatekeeper role. And I can tell it's frustrating for him. I can feel it, right? Primary care was a gatekeeping role. Like, let's, if we think about like where primary care came from, it was the world of HMOs where insurance companies said we've got to curb medical costs. So we can't just let people go straight to specialists.

[00:12:44] We have to have an interim step of a doctor doing that triage, essentially triage to determine whether or not this person is eligible because otherwise we're going to spend too much money with unnecessary businesses specialists. So like that was the origin of the role. So it is a gatekeeping role. Well, do you think that's antiquated now? Like, do you think as more people, do you think more people should be able to take control over their health journey? Or do you think, yeah. Yeah. And this is the whole thing that I said, and it's sort of why I decided to focus my energy on social media.

[00:13:12] Is health information is no longer gatekept by doctors. Period. Sure, there's misinformation out there. But you can absolutely know a heck of a lot more about a topic than me as a physician because you've gone down a rabbit hole. And you have access to all the studies and you have access to AI, which can fish through like millions and millions of scientific papers and spit out the information and results. Now, you need to be the smart consumer and the discerning consumer around that. And I think that is where the physician will play a role.

[00:13:42] But like, come on. Like, the information is no longer gatekept by doctors. It used to be if you had a health question, you had to go to your doctor to ask that question. And then it was like, oh, shame on you if you ask Dr. Google. But now, come on. You know, like Mayo Clinic has got a YouTube channel. Stanford's got a YouTube channel. Like, you know, top physicians are online providing health information every single day. You can learn so much.

[00:14:06] And then the way the algorithms work, like they will feed you down a rabbit hole so that you will understand your Achilles heel issue all the way down to the individual molecule to the point where you're like ready to do the surgery. I got it. Let me put on my sleeves and do my own surgery. I mean, that's how much information is out there. So we just have to acknowledge that our current system is totally antiquated and be humbled as a doctor.

[00:14:30] Like when someone comes into my office and they come in with information that I haven't heard about before I poo poo it as misinformation because I'm tired of like hearing that term. Oh, it's misinformation. No, you're dismissing something that like the train has left the station already. The health information is there. So before I dismiss it, I say, oh, that's really interesting. Let me be your advocate. Kit, show me what research you've looked at, what studies, whatever it is. Send me the YouTube. Let me on your behalf look into it. I haven't come across it, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

[00:14:58] And we need to show up in health care with that attitude and that mentality because then we're going to be the ones as physicians that lose trust when the truth is the patient was right because they happened to have, I don't know, listened to a podcast or heard a speaker that I just didn't hear about. I didn't know.

[00:15:46] Because that's just ignorance on my end and a resistance to this shift that's happening in medicine and health care. And health care is the last to adopt. We only adopted computers 15 years ago. Like what? We were scribbling on a piece of paper, like your entire health story? So like, let's be honest, health care is one of the last industries to adopt change. And it is still the one that has yet to be disrupted.

[00:16:13] But this whole social media, health information availability, biometrics, biomarker data, all that being available. Like this is it. This is now the change in health care. The consumerization of health care. Well said. And, you know, obviously there's frustration. I can feel it from you. I can feel it from everybody I talk to who comes on this podcast. Just like the health care system is frustrating. It's just we want it to be better, but it's just slow. So you used to be a clinical physician. You've been a chief medical officer. And now you're heavily into media, right? Like you're out there. You're creating.

[00:16:42] Was looking at your Instagram feed. I'm like, oh, my God, how she come up with so many ideas on content? Like how does like how does that work? And I've had friends who were, you know, I don't like this term, but it's what everyone relates to as an influencer. And they're always it's a it's a full time job. Right. So I guess the question again, too, is when you went from clinical and then you made this journey, you decided, OK, I can do more good in the media side of things, educating publicly. Like, is that is that how you made this decision? Is that how you got to where you are now, like doing major morning shows and all of that?

[00:17:12] So, yeah, I felt bad for patients who had clinical issues like that couldn't get in to see me. Right. The most patients I've seen into the day is probably 30. I've had in the last month by count up across my platforms, probably 60 million views in the last month of my content, you know. So in terms of like the reach and the ability to meet people where they are, like that's it. This is where health education is at, you know.

[00:17:38] So in my mind, you know, just like the entry point in a community is the fitness studio, the gym, whatever it is. The entry point in my mind for health is social media and online. It's the top of the funnel. It's where everybody is every single day, regardless of age. So I'm like, I need to meet people where they are at the top of the funnel. Right.

[00:17:59] And I need to empower them with little tidbits of information to make healthy lifestyle choices, because I can't tell you how many times people were like, I didn't know that wasn't healthy. Or, oh, I just didn't realize that. Or, OK, sure, I could take off my shoes before I come into the house. Or, OK, I just liked black plastic utensils because they looked pretty. I didn't realize they were potentially treated with chemical flame retardants. I'll throw them out. Right. So these little aha moments for people that could be life changing, you know.

[00:18:28] So I'm like, I need to meet people where they are with little things that they can do in their everyday life, because the future of health care is all about empowerment, whether it's empowerment through education, empowerment through AI, empowerment through wearable devices that provide you with a feedback loop. Right. You're going to be able to stay healthy because you're your own advocate and you're using the data and information you have to show up as the best version of yourself. Right. What's the alternative? Like having a doctor like live with you, you know, like how else like how else?

[00:18:57] So you have to take control and ownership over your health. And then when you're too sick to do it, that's when you go to see your doctor. So I was like, forget it. This is where it's at. If I want to educate people and help people live healthier lives, I'm going to turn towards social media. And because my background as a chief medical officer has been in health care innovation and I was one of the OGs who did telehealth and telemedicine back in 2013 when nobody knew what it was.

[00:19:20] I'm like the second entry point for patients now that they're already on their computers and their screen is online and online is click a button and talk to your doctor, you know. And so now the fact that people can go and use like a function health or whatever, go direct to quest or lab core dot com and order whatever the heck blood test they want. You know, I can patient can have all the information they need, show up with their blood work, click a button, connect with a doctor, get information, feedback, advice. And then if they need to, then if they need to, they can see a doctor. Right.

[00:19:50] And really the only reason to see a doctor is if they have to physically put their hands on you, like give you an injection or do a procedure or do a surgery. So like the fact that you have to like go to your doctor to talk about your Achilles, like that's ridiculous. You know, five, five, ten years from now we're going to say, yeah, that was ridiculous that we even had to do that. You know, so we've talked a lot about the health care industry and how it needs to evolve in this conversions that I'm so dying to see over time of the fitness and health care. But what does the fitness industry need to do?

[00:20:18] Where are we lagging in this agreement that we need to move towards? Like what can we be doing better from your point of view? So I think like we get like so fixated on protocols and on numbers and on like which type of exercise is the best exercise. And is it, you know, what's the latest high rocks or whatever? And like that's the craze and all these things.

[00:20:40] And, you know, I just would love to see a little bit more of like, you know, just move, you know, or just like it doesn't have to be so measured. It doesn't everything doesn't have to be so protocol based race is not better than the other race. One thing is like let's just, you know, reduce the barrier and the complexity and just allow people to show up and like have fun.

[00:21:03] So I guess my point is and maybe it's because I'm a woman too, which I think is an aspect of it that just feels like such an intensity to everything. And there doesn't need to be, you know, I think we just need to be like, like let's do this because it's fun and it's enjoyable. Not like to be the best self and to persevere and the grit and the die hard. Like, you know, at least it doesn't resonate with me as a female, you know.

[00:21:27] And then at the same time on the female side of it, it's like, let's do Pilates and stretch and like wear cute pink clothing. And so then it's like the opposite end of the spectrum where I think about like the Jane Fonda videos and all that sort of stuff that's like, and now you can lift this pink weight with your pinky finger or whatever. And it's like, so we've like stereotyped and gone to extremes with fitness that I just wish we can have it be a little bit more community centered,

[00:21:53] have it be a little bit more focused on like have a fun time with your friends, like have a little bit more integrated into everyday life. Like let's have a lawn mowing party. I don't know, like something that just like incorporates physical fitness into like your everyday life as opposed to like extremes. So I guess that would be my major critique is like, it could be a little bit intimidating. It could be a little bit too like, you know, has to be grit and it's got to be painful.

[00:22:19] It's got to be hard on one side of it or the other side of it is it has to be like dainty and pretty, you know. And I'm just like, it just needs to be a way of life, you know. I mean, you know, guilty as charged. Like, so I came from the CrossFit world. Nobody sold hard work and sweat. You're one of those. There you go. I mean, it was Puky the Clown was the mascot, right? It was so ridiculous looking back. And, but you know, it's interesting.

[00:22:40] My good friend Brandon Cullen, who's one of the founders of Metabolic, he recently posted on LinkedIn last week about this thing where there's been a lot of conversation around how the fitness industry isn't focusing on women. He's like, well, actually, let's look at the numbers. Like the boutique industry absolutely is. Like it is overwhelmingly female, right? But they're selling what you're talking about. They're selling, you know, strengthening and lengthening, right? And sculpting, which aren't even really things. Like they're just, they're just made up terms. Like they just sound good. But then there's like, there's got to be a middle ground. Now it's like, well, no, actually strength training can be really good for women when it's done properly.

[00:23:10] And, but it does have to be fun. People have to want to come. And I think that's, you know, giving CrossFit some credit. That is one of the things that it sold really well was like community and fun. Like it was engaging, right? On Saturdays, the classes I have were 25, 30 people have the barbecue out afterwards. Like that is something that was very tangible that we learned. But man, you know, trying to sell hard work and pain is probably one of the reasons why we only have a 20% penetration rate into the market. It's because like, that's, we're not selling tacos and French fries, right? That's easy. That smells good. That's, that's just natural to people.

[00:23:39] If they're hungry, they're going to eat. If we're selling this hard work thing, maybe we should be selling enjoyment and community and a good feeling, right? That's, that's, is that what I'm hearing? A hundred percent. And the community piece, and I think the reason why CrossFit was so successful is because you met people, you know, you were friends with people. And there is something to be said for like suffering through something together, right? But it's not necessarily the suffering. It's more that you're doing it in like the community and connection piece that I think is most important.

[00:24:08] And then, you know, the other piece of it is, gosh, I wish we could figure out how to just like replace like partying and alcohol all together. I recently was in Las Vegas and there was a, and it's like my least favorite place because of all the partying and everything. But I found a wellness club and they did like wellness parties where you do like cold plunge at night and there's a DJ and there's like fitness classes at night. So I'd love to see more of that. And I think fewer and fewer people are drinking alcohol.

[00:24:34] So I'd love to see a little bit more of that is the fitness community getting a little bit more creative on like how to spend evenings and nights. Now, technically, you shouldn't be exercising at night because it can impact your sleep. But you get my point that like some sort of involvement and replacement, like because there is such an important social aspect of it. And to replace some of the unhealthy social behaviors that we have. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's such a strong trend. I mean, just the younger generations, as I'm sure you're fully aware, they're just not drinking.

[00:25:02] They're not, you know, and like in New York City, like they're going to other ship, which is one of my favorite places to go. Right. Like these wellness activities, they're emerging. Older generations like mine are probably a little slow on the uptake. Although I hosted an event, a dinner event at the Connected and we budgeted a certain amount for alcohol. Right. Like, OK, we have to hit our alcohol. I was actually shocked that we weren't even close. Like we had to like we had so much more money to spend. I was at the end. I was like, you guys want to buy it? Like somebody want to get a drink or because I'm going to have to get a drink. Like, like, I don't care.

[00:25:32] I mean, you were at the Connected Fitness Summit, you know? But I mean, if you know this industry and I've been around for a long time, like people party. Like it's the definitely part. No, no, no. Right. Now it's Oura Ring. Now they're like Spore Baby. Like they're like totally obsessed. Like that, that industry who used to be out and partying, doing all that sort of stuff or like prioritizing sleep over all else and obsessing over their, you know, their metrics, their sleep numbers. Well, it's, I mean, that's an interesting point too.

[00:25:59] Because I think the over protocolization, I'm just using that word, but like in all the data, right? It can be very overwhelming. I know myself, I have a hate sleep. I have a Garmin. I have an Aura. I have like, I'm over. It's just too much. It's too much. I admit it. Right. But I just, I like it. But I think there's something to what you said, you mentioned a bunch of times like we're trying to build out these strong protocols. And my friends at the Ready State, Kelly and Juliet Starrett, like they talk about this a lot too. It's like, it's just too many protocols.

[00:26:26] Like just live your life to have some healthy fundamental habits. Right. So how do you, how do you address that particular issue of this? It's, it's too much. Well, and also, and it kind of goes back to the misinformation thing is like, there's one study and then we're like, this is it. Cold plunge doesn't work in women. Or this is it. Cold plunge is the best thing ever.

[00:26:49] And this is, so that is one of the issues with like the data trickling in and becoming available to anyone and everybody that we're like taking one thing and running with it. And like a piece of all of it is probably true. So as much as we're saying this is misinformation, it's just like, this is how science works. Like it takes time to develop a point of view. There are multiple studies that need to take place. Those studies take time.

[00:27:12] The way in which we're doing clinical studies is changing because now you can do decentralized clinical trials and get a huger sample size and all the, so like all of this like is changing so much. And medicine is an art. It's not a science. It is an art. And there may be studies to support things, but you can poke holes in almost every single study. So like as it relates to wellness and longevity, like you've got to just go back to basics and what I call common sense.

[00:27:38] And if like something doesn't make sense, even though there's like a protocol supporting it, I'm going to be like, but that doesn't make sense. And like for thousands of years, humans never did this. And if I can't find an evolutionary like benefit to like a reason why we're doing something, I'm going to say no. I also go back to like, you know, Eastern medicine and like Ayurveda or like acupuncture and medicines that have been around forever, which are historically like not rooted in science. Well, you know what? They've been around for 3,000 years.

[00:28:07] I'm pretty sure they freaking work. Otherwise, they wouldn't still be around. People wouldn't still be doing them. So like the common sense element, I think, is really important. I think we have to be really careful to not overprotocolize and just dismiss things because the studies don't support it. Because you really need to understand, like I said, how long it takes for a study to be done, how many variables need to be controlled for in a study. And I don't care how much fancy statistics you do around something. You can't control for everything.

[00:28:34] So in my mind, a lot of these clinical studies are sort of like taken out of context. And that's why it seems like there's so much misinformation. I don't think people are sitting there lying, coming up with stuff. They're just reading and misinterpreting a study or taking it out of context where the study itself was done for a different purpose or whatever. So like I just think we need to be careful. I would say like directionally on the margin, yes, okay. Then marry that to something called common sense, right?

[00:29:00] And then think about whether or not there's any ancient practices that also support it. And that's sort of my framework for how I jump onto or not jump onto a trend or that. Yeah, so good. So, I mean, if I've said it once, I've said it probably a million times, that when we look at the fitness industry, we're not really in the exercise industry. We're in the industry of behavior change. Like that's what we do, right? That's what fundamentally what we're trying to do. And when I was owning and operating gyms, one of the things we always had was like maybe a biannual challenge.

[00:29:29] And, you know, I'm not a huge fan of challenges because there's six weeks. Anyone can do anything for six weeks. But we want to see like, but what we hope for is like at the end of six weeks, they picked up one habit that they can carry with them for the rest of their life. That compounding interest on that habit is shocking, right? And one of the things we would hold like classes every week, we would have one night, we'd have a class on something, whether it was meditation or, and the one that always showed up and to me was the most impressive was the cooking class because no one really knows how to cook. I've cooked my whole life.

[00:29:59] I took it for granted. Like how to chop a red pepper, right? How to like boil and make pasta, right? Whether we can argue whether or not pasta is good for you, whatever. It doesn't matter. You see it being cooked. You know, it's a whole food. So I guess the question I'm getting now is when you look at like the fundamental tenets of health and wellness that anybody can do, like what do you find yourself preaching over and over again that almost probably gets boring to you? You said it so many times. Yeah.

[00:30:26] I mean, so like the movement and physical activity, but again, doing that within the context of your everyday, like if you have kids, pick up your kid, carry him up the stairs, you know, like whatever. Like housework counts as physical activity and all that. And so like, you know, make that count in terms of like things that you do in your everyday life. Taking a fart walk after you eat. Who doesn't want to do that? But seriously, like you think about in Italy, right? The passeggiata, right? That everybody, you know, in so many different cultures, taking walks after meals because it stimulates digestion.

[00:30:55] So those are like super like simple, low hanging fruit. As it relates to the food industry, it is so important to hammer home key like things that people are doing when they think they're being healthy. And then like they're inadvertently harming their health. So you mentioned pasta. An imperfect example of pasta is what type of pasta to eat and making sure that the label says bronze cut or bronze dyed pasta,

[00:31:24] because that means the machine that you used to cut the pasta is made out of bronze. If it doesn't say that, the machine is made out of Teflon. Teflon is what's no longer allowed in nonstick pots and pans because it's been known to cause birth defects. It's an endocrine disruptor. It leads to obesity. So is it the pasta that was leading to obesity? Or was it the pieces of Teflon that you were eating in your pasta that leads to obesity? Like if pasta and carbs were so bad for you, why isn't everybody in Italy obese?

[00:31:54] You know? And so it's thinking about little things like that, about like how your food is made, how the food is processed and simple little things. That's sort of why my social media stuff is like useful because it's these snackable sound bites. And then it's like, you know, I think the fitness industry is guilty of this. Like protein shakes, protein powders, like again, this intensity to like your food should just be fueling your exercise, right? Well, no, you should be eating the whole food.

[00:32:23] Like I think about protein powders the way I think about juice from concentrate. You're stripping out all of the important nutrients that are needed for protein absorption when you're distilling it down to just the powder. And that's not healthy for us. Sure. Here and there, like to supplement when you're exerting yourself and you've got a lot of energy, you know, like spending a lot of energy. But like whole foods are really important. But then the next layer of that is where are those whole foods coming from and are those foods in season?

[00:32:51] So the minute a fruit or vegetable is picked off of a plant, right, it starts to lose its nutrient content. So I don't care if you're eating organic strawberries every single day and you're thinking you're getting good fiber intake and you're being so healthy when it's the middle of January and strawberries aren't growing anywhere except for 5,000 miles from where you live. By the time that strawberry got picked, transported all the way to your supermarket where you're buying it, it has zero nutrient content. So you have a perception that you're eating well and you're not actually eating well.

[00:33:21] So whole foods, shopping locally, making friends with farmers, asking about their farming practices, making sure that farming is regenerative farmed, which in some ways is more important than organic because organic requires a lot of money to spend on a certification. So all those little things, that education piece is important. But then like I love the idea of the fitness industry getting more involved and engaged with food.

[00:33:45] And that doesn't mean selling David protein bars and like having smoothies with your protein shots and powders. That kind of just goes back to the whole like hardcoreness of the fitness industry. And you're missing out on like the importance of fuel for your body that should come from whole foods. Love it. We have some time left that I want to get on something I think is really important I want to talk to you about, which is women's health. And, you know, I've had a lot of leaders in this space. Dr. C. Sims has been on this podcast numerous times.

[00:34:11] We've talked about the advancement in women's health research, which we don't have to get into that game. We talked about it. It's embarrassing, right? Like we're, but now it's turning around. That's a big thing. So there's a lot of investment coming in. Femtech as a category is really big. And we alluded to like how the industry kind of positions itself as, you know, can position itself as hardcore and maybe, you know, not as attractive to the normal female consumer. So when you look at women's health in the light and aspect of the fitness industry, where are the biggest opportunities?

[00:34:41] What are some things that we can improve upon to really capitalize on this tremendous movement that's happening right now in women's health? Yeah. I mean, I think the strength training is probably the most important. And I think strength training and recovery are the two areas of opportunity. Meeting people where they are, though, with strength training protocols that aren't just the tone and the sculpt and about physical appearance in your body or, you know, whatever in your looks, but more about how strength improves your, can improve your energy. Strength improves your sleep. Strength improves your mood.

[00:35:11] And like the pain points that women experience, it can help with brain fog, all of that. And then acknowledging and recognizing that the female body is different. And I think that's one area of real opportunity. Like even when you look at the fitness machines and stuff and the muscle groups and where they are, like all those things feel positioned for male bodies, not necessarily female bodies. And my own personal experience, I tore both ACLs. I played soccer in college.

[00:35:37] And like there just was no, and one in three women who play a college sport chair, their ACL, because there wasn't a training program that recognized that women's hips were wider. And that our knees were not, you know, in the same location as men's. So like all of these things factor in. So I would love to see more female focused strength training opportunities for the big muscle groups, not just the, like I said, the three pound pink weight and like the Pilates and all this.

[00:36:05] And also just saying like Pilates isn't strength training. I don't, you know, like we need to be doing like the same kind of hardcore strength training, like hardcore that men are doing catered to the female body. You know, I think we shouldn't shy away from that. I think women still worry that they're going to over bulk if they're holding a huge dumbbell or just the appearance of that. And it just feels very masculine. But we need to work those big muscle groups. And like, I'm not saying Pilates is bad.

[00:36:34] I'm just, I think it's great and it'd be a great supplement, but it's not the same supplement as working those large muscle groups with weights. And, but I would like to see more of the emphasis being on the, how women's bodies are different and how our center of like gravity is different. And then the specific programs cater to that. I mean, I think it doesn't have to be hardcore. I think, you know, traditional compound movements, right? You know, there's, if you can learn five or six compound movements when it comes to weight training, right? With SMOF, that'd be great.

[00:37:03] And one of the things I would like to see, and I think this is along the same lines, and I noticed this at different gyms that I go to, you know, both here in Montana. And then when I travel is I would love to see, cause the popularity of strength training is undoubted. It's undoubted, right? You can't doubt it. Like it's, it's, you see it everywhere. Like just in my gym here over the last five years, you've seen them go from two weightlifting platforms to five, right? There's dumbbells and barbells everywhere. They keep expanding, keep expanding, but no one's teaching anyone how to lift weights.

[00:37:30] You know, I love to see an introduction class in more places of like, hey, we'll teach people to do yoga. We'll teach people to do, you name it. It's easy. I was like, I'll even do it. If I had more time, I'll do it. I would love to, right? Especially cause the high school students, I see them doing it. I love that. Cause it's the entry point and it's like intro to strength training for women, you know, even calling it for women that, and, and like, look, I don't mind if the dumbbells are pink. Like I have no problem with that. I think they're, they're pretty, they're nice. They're great.

[00:37:58] But I do think we need to call out that strength training is different for men and women. And maybe certain machines are better for women and other ones are better for men, whatever they are. But an intro to strength training class, like, you know, you don't have to rearrange the world to have that happen. That's a really easy, low hanging fruit. And I think you'd have huge uptake and sign up around that. But especially if you then tie that to a cooking class, if you tied it to more of a female centric activity afterwards, I think you'd see huge engagement. Yeah.

[00:38:26] And if people are listening, like Eric, Tanya, we're doing that. Like email me. I want to hear about it. I want to hear the model. I want to see how you're doing and implementing it. Cause we'll talk about it. It's Erica, futurefitness.co. When you look at like the, the, the femtech component, right? All the technologies that are advancing in this particular area. Is there any one or two that you're really excited about something you're keeping your eye on that you think could be revolutionary within the space? You know, I'm going to reserve my opinion because like I, there's nothing out right now that is just like, yes, that's it.

[00:38:55] I think we're in a little bit of like the hype cycle right now. And I'm like, there's nothing that's standing out. That's like, oh, this is going to be revolutionary and differentiated in the marketplace. I just, there's too much noise right now. Well, I think it's, if it is, I mean, it's probably fairly opaque at this point, but all the wearable data, especially like women during specific parts of their life cycle, right? Is really interesting. I think we're learning a lot from that and what to do with it. I don't know if anyone's really figured that out yet, but I think we're kind of in this collection phase of data and research. That seems to be promising.

[00:39:24] You know better than I, but it seems like the flood of new data. We're just not sure how to use it yet. Yeah. And I hope that we are able to use it because historically there have just been like this real, you know, boundary between like consumer wearable device data and then that data we use in like healthcare for clinical trials. And so the biggest hope and opportunity is that the data is accessible so that we can really dig into it and understand and have insights around like, well, what does this mean where I'm at this point in my cycle?

[00:39:53] And perhaps that will be a way in which we can better cater to a female population. I do think the cycle tracking is incredibly valuable, even if it's just a marker for women to understand that like they shouldn't be doing the same thing all day, every day. Maybe in the few days before their period, those are the days that maybe they shouldn't be working out. And that was never anything that we really had insight into. But now we actually understand and have insight into our overall physiology from these devices. So, yeah, I agree.

[00:40:22] I think that the vast amount of data that's available is exciting. I just hope that we don't have as much restriction and regulation around how we can use and interpret that. Well, you know, ultimately, I think with any industry right now, when you ask like what is the most exciting technology, it can't be anything other than AI. Because, you know, you looked at the beginning of the year. I say this quote all the time, but it was ChatGPT announced their ChatGPT Health that was coming out. I don't know if it's come out yet. I'm on its list. I haven't been tracking it.

[00:40:49] But in that announcement, 230 million users per week make health-related inquiries into ChatGPT. 230 million per week is astonishing. So it's like that's hard to ignore. Even if that number is slightly off in either direction, it's impossible to ignore. And I think that's like the thing, the cohesive thing is bringing everything in. Like if you have wordable data on yourself or you just have questions, you can include a clot or croc or whatever it may be.

[00:41:14] You can start getting some decent information, maybe not the best and most reliable, but pretty darn good. And it's getting better. Well, it's a starting point, right? And then I always like to say like compared to what? Could 230 million people a week access their doctor? No. Like, you know, so it's like compared to what? As much as we're like, oh, it's not good. We shouldn't be using AI for health care, right? That's kind of like the other side of the argument. It's like, well, you know what?

[00:41:39] I think this is, again, this democratization of health care and the fact that health information is no longer gatekept by the system, you know? And that's going to be a real opportunity when done responsibly and used responsibly. Last question I always ask everyone here, talk to LA is as an industry, how can we help you? You know, if people are listening to this, you like to hear from people about specific things. What are those topics and where can we help you with your ventures? For like the audience, like the industry overall. In general? Yeah, the fitness industry.

[00:42:06] I would love to hear them talk a little bit more about health care of the future and being a little bit more bold about what their role should be. You know, I'm actually a little sick of people saying, well, we're not replacing this or we're not replacing that. Well, what if you are? And what if that's not necessarily a bad thing? Like, I want you guys to be more bold and to actually dream and design what does the future of health care look like and what role do we play in it?

[00:42:31] And take a stance and be bold about it and hold focus groups and invite doctors and figure out what those connection points should be. But don't be like, oh, well, I'll draw the line here because I'm not a health care person. You are because you're square into a pillar of longevity. Like, we're prescribing exercise for cancer patients because it can modulate cancer cells. You know, like you guys are a key part of health.

[00:42:57] So, you know, step into that and be bold about what the future of health care delivery could and should look like. Where would you like people to go? Instagram, of course, or if they want to contact or reach out, like where's the best spots? Yeah, they can go to my website. They can reach out to me on my Instagram. And yes, I'd love to hear from people. I'd love to keep the conversation going. You do a lot of consulting too. So I'll let people know that. Obviously, you have a very unique perspective and knowledge that could be quite valuable. Dr. Tanya, thank you.

[00:43:25] Yeah, it's not all about heart walks, you know? You know, it's not a bad topic. It got my attention. Thank you again for doing this. It's been an absolute pleasure and hopefully we'll get you back on next year and talk about what you're working on. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Fitness. If you did, I'm going to ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it.

[00:43:53] Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, CastBox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media. Talk about it to your friends. Send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me. Simply go to the futureoffitness.co.

[00:44:23] You can subscribe to our newsletter there or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.