Brian Von Ancken - Wellness Growth Mastermind: How to Build a Thriving Industry Community

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to futurofitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now on to the show. Brian Von Anken, welcome to the Future of Fitness, my friend.

Thank you. Really, really great to be here. I'm excited for this.

Well, I uh I owe you a thank you too, because I've been enjoying the Wellness Growth Mastermind group quite a bit. It's not my first mastermind, that's for sure. It's not my first online community. You can double down on that. But uh you do have a really good group of people, and you specifically are driving it really well. Like it's not easy to get in there every day and make sure the conversations uh are worthwhile, that people are getting value out of it, that they're sticking around. Like it's not an easy thing. And to make it look easy and fluid is says a lot. So good job on that. I'm excited to talk to you about a number of things um outside of your mastermind and what you're doing. I think the the wellness industry overall, we were talking about um, you know, maybe healthcare pushing back on the evolution of the fitness and wellness industry nowadays. There's perhaps a war coming. Kind of leave that there and tease it a little bit. Um, and how to how to do communities, right? I think uh how to build, you know, whether paid communities or you know, part of your in-person experience at gyms and health clubs as operators, whatever it may be, community um is something that we all shoot for and we strive for because we know it's so valuable. And you know, as a early-on CrossFitter, I think I learned that very early in my in my industry experience, how powerful community is, but it's not easy, dude. It's not easy. So we're gonna pull some information out of you uh for sure. But Brian, I'm gonna stop talking. If you don't mind, give us a little introduction to yourself, how you got to be the founder of WGM, and then we'll we'll uh take it from there.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. Uh it's always so nice when you're on a podcast and you actually know the host, and we've we were like friends, we've chatted. And so it just feels like exciting and very natural to chat here. So yeah, I'm Brian Von Anken, founder of the Wellness Growth Mastermind. I always like to say I'm somebody who I grew up living the should life, kind of did what was expected of me, kind of, you know, got good grades, went to a good school, went to law school, and then in my third year of law school, I took a little bit of a veer because I interned for a company called Tough Mudder, which at the time was just 10 people in a room. We had put on one event, and I was like, you know what? I think I could help this company from a legal perspective, but also just from a growth perspective. And I really think what they're doing is amazing. So joined Tough Mutter, had a great run there, helped them grow to, you know, everybody knows they had a great run there, and then started my first company after that called Anchor, which was a mindful social workout. So I've got experience, you know, being a founder, learned a lot from that, which I'm sure we'll get into. Then I was early on at OtherShip. For those of you who know Othership, the sauna cold punch space. They also have a breath work app, led partnerships and growth there, was at Berry's for a hint, doing corporate sales and partnerships as well. But what I'm doing right now is something I've actually been doing for the last three years, which is building a community of leaders in the health and wellness space called the Wellness Growth Mastermind. So we're a community of about 200 founders. We come from places like Aura Ring, Eight Sleep, Peloton, Headspace, Levels, a lot of up-and-coming brands as well. And we just chat about growth and we support each other. And basically, I believe that this industry is an all boats rise industry and that there's a lot of incentive for us to get to know each other. And I believe that it's also hard, which we'll get into. It's hard to build these types of businesses. So I just try to build a community that's a give first community. It's authentic, it's with people in it who are authentic, kind, generous. And if you put enough people like that together, good things happen. Some people get partnerships, some people find new growth channels, some people find investors, some people just find friends. And I find that, you know, I started this by accident, and it's just fun to every day to witness it grow.

Yeah. Well said. Yeah, it's uh I think I told you this. I started about when I sold my gyms, so probably about seven years ago now. I tried to start something called the what I call it, the fitness growth community or something, I don't know what it was, but very, very similar. And it was, I believe it was before its time. It was based on a Slack community. And I had, you know, it got got off to a quick start. And then I was like, dude, this is a grind. Like to make sure that everyone continues to get value, you know, month after month. And like, because a lot of people maybe will think they'll just come in, extract, and leave, right? But to keep it going is a very difficult thing. We'll get into like, I'm sure, all the nitty-gritty of that. But let's start with um maybe defining some things. So in your mind, when you when you think of the term wellness as a category, how would you define that? Because I think it's kind of all over the place right now.

It is, and and and I'm not saying that I love the term. If I knew this was going to be a thing, would I have called it the wellness growth mastermind? I don't know. But it smells like the two bit. I don't know. I from my perspective, I'm defining wellness pretty broadly as well. And I'm kind of putting a case-by-case basis on it, right? So I think that at the highest level, it's not traditional healthcare, right? So if you're a company that's engaging, covered by insurance, using the traditional healthcare system, pay or payee type stuff, I'd say that, you know, those are the types of companies that to me are not kind of included in wellness, is I define it right now. But wellness very much does include, to me, a lot of different categories. I think there's obviously the the gyms and the fitness industry. Then I've got a lot of, you know, the nutrition, food is medicine type people. We've got a lot of wearables that are in there as well. And then we've got a lot of mental wellness, like mental wellness apps or different devices. And, you know, I kind of have a broad range, and I think uh, you know, I've I've cut the line off at medical system and then dogs on the other end, you know, no, no canines yet, no canine health yet. Not that I'm saying never, but I'm putting my own kind of guardrails on it. And I think you're right. I think at the end of the day, everyone's gonna claim wellness very soon, and and we're gonna have to figure out what it means. But for now, I'm kind of going on a case-by-case basis, not just on the vertical in which they're in, but the person who wants to be a part of my community, who's applying, and whether they are the right type of person who's gonna have a give first mentality and want to be a value add to the group.

Yeah. You know, it's I talk about this often about how we just need a better term because there's a rebrand going on right now of the whole thing fitness, health, wellness, right? And I know Pete Moore is pushing Halo, which is I think health with living outdoors, right? He's really pushing that one hard to be at the forefront. Yeah. Um, and I I tell people like, hey, if you're listening and you have a really good name for what this this new industry emerging is should be called, is I if you send it over and we like it, I'll give you a free podcast collective hat, a $20 Starbucks card. But it's gotta be good. So uh keep him coming.

Listen, let's just remember rebrands are hard and they take a lot of time. And so, you know, as somebody who my first company was called Anchor, which was it was a workout company. I think it was a great name because like it was a workout to combined breath work, meditation. You anchored your day, but it was spelled differently, and like it was a big education gap. And and I think that ultimately, if wellness is something that people are using right now and we have a lot of ways to go in educating, I'm I'm not sure a rebrand is worth the energy. I mean, maybe eventually, but um, but yeah, I I love what Pete's doing, and and I do like the term halo as well.

Yeah, it sounds good, right? Well, what uh you know, when you look across the whole spectrum of wellness brands that you work with and companies, like what uh what's hot, what's thriving right now in wellness?

Yeah, I mean, I I can't pretend like we're I'm gonna probably give answers that people haven't heard before. I mean, there's there's all the focus on protein right now that you hear. There's all the focus on peptides and longevity that you hear. You know, I also think that there's a lot of I think there's a lot of really big momentum behind um integrating wearable data into other aspects of wellness. I think that's something that I've seen is is is hopping a little bit more and and getting a little bit more traction. But I think that what we know about this space is is to be very tepid of trends in fads. I think Tough Mutter was an amazing company, but ultimately was a great lesson in what this industry is, which it has its ups and its downs. And you need to, you know, want to cater to the fads and cater to what's hot right now, but also have that perspective of, okay, we'll see what's going to have staying power here, right? Are cold plunges here to stay? Right? Or are they gonna kind of be a fad? And and you know, I I would bet on the fact that bathhouses have been around for a very long time and there will be bathhouses for a long time. But, you know, when you see articles come out about cold plunges and if it affects women's hormones and whether that's true or not, you know, there there's there there's potential for it to be taken down. And so so yeah, I think I think my only thing I've learned in this space is just to have a little bit of skepticism on the staying power of almost anything because it's such a difficult business and because consumers are so fickle and kind of unloyal.

Yeah. Have you noticed with the uh the companies that are thriving in your community, is there any specific like traits of the business or the founders, you know, as far as the models that that you see are like, okay, that there's there's something, there's a consistency here.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's what I think of is I think of, you know, Othership, I think of superpower, I think of Rosebud, which is this AI journaling app, and they are just obsessed with details and they're obsessed with design, and they're kind of really over-the-top kind of customer experience-centric in order to differentiate in a market that's extremely crowded. And so if you have that excruciating level of detail, that's something that it just seems to, you know, throughout the different verticals, have some ability to stick out and and and cause help you get a little bit more successful.

Yeah. You know, that uh other ship's a great example because you both you and I, well, obviously you you were part of that in your career. But I've I've only gone once. And I don't think there's another experience or brand that I've talked about more without having any kind of incentive than other ship. Because the experience, it was so from the moment you walk in through the whole thing, you can tell the details were very focused on, right? Like how they exactly want the lighting and the coloring, like the smell of the tea that they probably specifically chose, right? Like everything about it experientially was very, very thought out. It really stuck out to me. A lot of my colleagues who have gone have said the same thing.

Yeah. I mean, and I think there's there's lessons to so many gym operators, fitness people as well, of just like they they nail that first timer experience, right? You come in, you get a wristband that indicates that you're a first timer. Then everybody is signaled to the other people, uh, and not just the guides. But at this point, if you're a veteran, you know, you help those people out, and then when they leave, they get a signature score that like when they're home and they burn the incense, they're like, oh yeah, that's the smell of othership. Let me think about coming back. And so, you know, they're you know, it's so precise. It's very, I think you said you're you got a trip. Um it's like Japanese, it's so so precise on every little detail, and and that goes that goes quite a long way. And they do it on in not just in the physical experience, but on their website, on their app. Uh, every little detail is thought thought through in detail in that way.

Well, it's it's uh it's an interesting lesson, right? Because I think most people start, a lot of founders start, they're like, okay, how do I scale? Right. And that's the thought is like, how do I build something and scale? But like you have to build something that's really unique and well thought out and well branded, right? That that produces the opportunity to scale. Like, I don't know if other ship will ever scale. I don't know if Robbie has any plan to ever scale. I mean, in a conversation I have, he's like, this is really hard. This takes a lot of money to do these things. We're just taking one location at a time. And then I think about like that's that's a great way to take your business because whenever we're shooting for like, well, how do I get to a thousand? There, there's different mindsets at work. I'm I'm not saying that that, you know, the build to build to scale is is a bad thing, but it's just an interesting thing in the wellness area. I don't know because it's it wellness is so fitness and wellness are experiential. It's emotional, right? Like people work out for different reasons because of whatever motivations they have. And it's generally, you know, something about the way they look or something that happened in their life, or, you know, something that uh they're facing some kind of sickness. Like they're there, it's very emotional, it's very unique to each every person. So we have to kind of honor that and make that experience worthwhile for every single person because it's not also not easy. Like no one likes getting in a cold plunge, right? You do it because it's the way you're gonna feel after, right? And no one likes doing a hard workout, they just know that it's good for them. So it's not like selling french fries or tacos, like you can't just waft it in the air and have people come by. You have to make sure the experiences were really well thought out. So yeah, kudos to Robbie. I feel like this is a great advertisement for him.

Listen, man, I I love Robbie to death. And I think the mindset that he has of building for 20 years from now, building for the long term, taking your time. That's the recipe to me that gives him the chance at becoming the billion-dollar or however many billion-dollar company, because if you just do the scale and repeat, to some degree it's less defensible, to some degree you have less ability to, you know, you get tapped out. I have great examples. I mean, Solid Core Berries have had, you know, great valuations, but are they pushing a billion? You know, I'm not sure that they're they're they reach that level. And I think in order to get to that level, you need to do do it a little differently. And so I'm interested to see to see how it goes. And yes, clearly advertised. We need to have make this an advertiser for WGM, man. If we're gonna advertise anything, you know, it's totally well.

Okay, let's let that was my next question. So let's talk about that. So, you know, I've been thinking about this, Brian is like this is gonna sound a little random, but bear with me here. Business school is really expensive, right? For and most entrepreneurs, uh, you know, or young founders especially may opt out of business school due because I don't want to walk out of here with $100,000 in debt. You know, I see the way that you run WGM is like, you know, you have a monthly educational series. I was fortunate enough and honored to come in and talk about podcasting and the whole industry and where the opportunities are in podcasting. So thank you for that. Um, but you have something unique, you know, there's education happening throughout that. I mean, do you start to think that maybe this isn't just because a traditional mastermind is like uh, what is it? It's like you shared um resources, networks, and and experience, right? That's kind of what builds a traditional mastermind. But education is something that you're you're throwing in there in a very, very meaningful way, right? So do you think there's possible opportunities where maybe master automatic models start to become more of a business school program? Is that something never think about?

I think it's a really interesting topic. No, first of all, um, I never went to business school. My wife went to business school, though, and so I got to like be there and audit a couple classes, and I realized how much it is about the network. I mean, yes, it's about weat learn, but it is very much about your network. And so it's funny you say that. So I'm actually gonna be closing membership for WGM in September and uh no new members, and we're gonna put up everybody on a wait list and we're gonna do our first cohort in January. And so, yeah, I haven't even spoken about this publicly, but like the goal is to create a bit of that business school vibe of like, oh yeah, I'm from class of 2026, joined WGM. And one thing that's very, you know, I want to make very clear, I don't claim to be an expert in everything. I'm not the one who's like, I the Brian method will grow your business 10x. Like, that is not me. I'm I'm just like, how do I put people in positions and get people who are able to share experiences from credible sources? And the way I think about membership for these sort of things is like, let's just say you get one actionable tip to grow your business every month. Like, you know, the return on that could be like 10x at least. And so, you know, we try to make sure that we bring in people like yourself who are experts in the space, have done it, can talk to their experience, and then, you know, people who are genuinely interested in helping. I I this is gonna sound random as well, but I always think back to Tough Mutter and how we had all these obstacles, right? Electric shock, Arctic enema, like dah dah da. And the obstacle that always got rated the best was the obstacle where somebody climbed up a wall and helped someone else up. It was called Everest. And you reached down, you helped somebody else up over the wall. And it was like people want opportunities to help other people. We just don't get it in everyday life. And so, what I'm hoping to do is create space where, you know, you're an expert in health and wellness and the fitness space. Let's get you connected with other people who you can help because it feels good to help. And let's be honest, it comes what goes around comes around. And if you help a lot of these people are earlier in their journey, and so if you help someone who's at that seed stage and then who knows, they become the next big thing, like it's nice to say I knew you when. And so I think we've got a lot of that going on in the group, and and just I don't want to be business school in the sense of like, you know, you're done in like I kind of want this to just be like a club that you're you're a part of and it's exclusive and and you feel really proud to be a part of it. And it's something that you're it's exciting to come to the events. You're not like, oh, I have to go to this networking event. You're like, this is I know I'm gonna meet good people. You're somebody described WGM to me recently as good people pipeline. And I'm like, yeah, that actually that tracks. It's like you're probably most people pretty much almost everybody you meet is gonna be a good good person, which is which is I think nice.

One of the uh benefits I always I've always seen for masterminds, because I've been a part of a number of them and I've I've run a few of them too. And the being a founder and a business owner can be a very lonely situation, right? Like just unrelatable for a lot, right? Like even um, you know, my poor wife, when she hears me dump my problems at the end of the day, like she she's she's never experienced what it's like to have you know the pressure of the end of the month and the next month and making the payroll and you know, dealing with investors and you know, all the different things, the the innovation, there there's so many things that come at you at a daily basis, it's brutal. So to be in a group where everyone was like, Oh, yeah, I get it, I get it. So maybe this is the conversation we can start getting into, like, is building community. Like it's it's very difficult. So, how do you uh intentionally uh create space for those type of moments? And what do you think is the most valuable aspects of building, you know, community, whether it be online or in person or a mixture of both?

Yeah. Well, let me tell you this the story of WGM is me building it by accident. So um, I think what happened was is I I had wound down my previous company. It failed because I didn't know enough about growth. And so I was like, I'm gonna lean into my weaknesses as opposed to my strengths. And when I was early at Othership, I was meeting all these amazing founders, growth leaders in the health and wellness space. Honestly, it was like I would meet one person who was really smart. I'd be like, you need to meet this other person that's really smart, but I want to listen to your conversation. So let's do a monthly call. And so I got them on this call, called it a mastermind. And it was just this opportunity for me to find space to connect with people. And, you know, when I did this, I did it for free. And I just added value. I was obsessed with just adding value to people and not taking up too much of their time. So when I run these calls, I am so, I think you've seen it. I'm like an efficiency master. I'm like, we got to get this done. Where we pack so much into an hour, it's so different. I bring the energy. And I think that me being able to make people aware that I'm very considerate of their time, I'm very considerate of wanting to give them value, and I'm not really asking for anything in return. And so when you think about building community, I think it is very much about building trust in the beginning. You got to be building trust. And so if your initial reaction and just think about if you had a friend, right? So if you had a friend and your first interaction was, I'm gonna pay you 200 bucks to be your friend, you're gonna be like, Well, what's this deal here? How what am I getting out of this? How am I? But instead, if you're like, I met you at this thing, yeah, let's follow up, cool, let's maybe get in a sauna, let's let's connect, let's play a sport, like that little bit of like three or four touch points allow you to build trust to put you in a different category in someone's brain, so that if and when you have something of offer to value, I think you know, people can be excited to support and to give. And so that's kind of what I did for this first couple of years. By the time I turned this into a paid community, people were excited to support, they were excited to be a part of it. And I was very chill about it. I mean, I think Robbie does it. I gotta stop talking about other shit, but they do a great job about it too, where they kind of give away they give away a lot of stuff. And I'm never, if it's not the right fit for anybody, like I don't do any outbound sales or marketing, it's all referral. So I'm not like, and if somebody joins and they're it's not the right fit, that's fine. Or if they're like, hey, I really want to check out a call first, cool, check it out. Like, I'm here to um add value and to get you in a mindset to be like, you know what? It's really cool to feel part of it. Bigger, something bigger than myself. It's a cool to be with other people who think of the same way as me, and it's cool to give and to support them. And once you get that, then I feel like the the membership. Feels like you know, easy enough to do. Those are some initial community thoughts. I I can dive in deeper too.

Yeah. Well, I want to talk about the value-first mindset because I think that's something that uh is easily said but rarely done. Have you ever read the book The Go Giver by Bob Berg?

No.

Okay, I'm gonna send you a copy. So it's uh I've I it's the most uh it's the book I've gifted the most over the years. It's small, it's short, it's a parable, and it talks about the go, the go-giver uh mentality. And Bob Berg, I've I've actually had him on this podcast in past years because you know I was a toll fanboy of the book. And for a while I was just calling him, I'm like, you know, I got questions about your your theories, and he's like, hey, just don't read too much into it, man. I'm like, okay, all right, you're but the the thought of is just always giving first, right? And knowing that somehow things are gonna work out so that the universe will come back at you. But you can't expect anything in return. Like I think a lot of people are like, well, yeah, I'll help you out in return. You know, just know that you owe me one. Like that's not that's not the way this works, right? So to have a true value-first mindset is kind of rare nowadays, but it takes trust. It takes trust that by doing all these things, and uh like I give up a lot of my time sometimes. I'm wondering, I'm like, why am I doing this? Like I could be in 30 minutes doing something else, right? So when you identify the value-first mindset, it's hard to see in other people, but obviously it's something that you believe in. So, how do you explain to people or look into it or look into people and see that they have it? Or is it something that you feel is just like it's got instinct?

You know, so my hypothesis is that we as a species, we want to be that way. We want to give. We just, in our modern world, it's hard. I mean, I live in New York City, and if I had a giving mindset to everybody that I saw, it would break my brain, it'd break my bank account. It just does not work. And so we've had to put up these guardrails, which are very understandable. But once you find a space where it is modeled very clearly, that people who you see that you respect, that you admire are giving their time, are sharing insights freely, are just interested to connect, I think we're a mimic species. And so like we we will mimic those things. And so obviously, I think I mean we don't allow everybody in, and there are people that I think, you know, just kind of don't get it. But I think if I know someone's accomplished, if I can tell that they're kind, if I can tell that they're, you know, open to generosity, I think, you know, it becomes a self-selecting thing. If you, if you you kind of get my vibe once you talk to me, you kind of get the group. And so if you're interested, usually I believe that you're gonna go that way. But I think it is it's a gut instinct, and then it also just comes down to how you talk about other people. How do you talk about other people? How do you talk about your employees? How do you talk about your partners? And if you talk about them in in this way or a certain way of, you know, yeah, I've got I've got a lot of respect for them or whatever, I I think that's a great indicator for it. But yeah, it's not a science, it's not, it's definitely more of an art than a science.

Yeah, yeah, well said. With the we we've talked about success and people have done really well, but within your community or just within your noticings of the industry, like what do you think is the similarities of these founders and companies in the wellness space that don't make it? Like have you noticed anything on the reverse side?

Yeah, I mean, the health and wellness fitness space, it's hard. It is an uphill battle. There's a lot of headwinds. There's the fact that you have to change someone's behavior, which people don't realize is extremely hard. There's the fact that it is discretionary income, which is getting easier, but initially, you know, it's it's hard to get people to, you know, spend that taxed, already taxed dollars for the most part, money on stuff. And then there's the whole sick care system, nutritional healthcare, that I think is pushing back and you know, making a lot of the decisions that are healthy harder for people. And so I think that all of those headwinds make it really, really hard. And that coupled with the fact that it's a very admirable space to work, and it's a very natural space for a lot of people who are like, I love being healthy. I want to work in this space, or I just learned about meditation, I want to create a meditation app. There's quite a lot of people who are drawn to this because it does feel like their purpose, it feels like something that would align with their passions. And so I think that those two factors create a lot of crashed ships, for lack of a better term, just like me. I was one of those people. I, yes, I had worked in the space, but I was a first-time founder, I was guided by my heart and I knew business, but I definitely didn't know enough. And so there was just a lot of people that were going in eyes wide open, or not eyes wide open, just like without having true awareness of what this industry can do. And I think you've actually seen this recently. I think Brian Johnson just announced that he's gonna step back from Blueprint and he's gonna focus more on don't die. And I think he's an example of somebody who he killed it in the tech space. There's so many people that are killing it in all these other industries, but if you come to health and wellness, it's hard. It's like the salt mines. You got to really get down in there. It's daily daily grind, building trust over time, education. There's there's just a lot in here that's hard. And I think that the founders who don't make it are the ones who expect it to be. I was able to, you know, change my life in this way, and and so will you. And no, I think the other people people fall for the fact, well, of course it's good for you to have X, Y, or Z. Like, why aren't you doing it? And it's like, you know, there's no rationality to human behavior in this space, even though we all know we got to sleep well, eat good, exercise, but you know, who does that? What percentage of the population actually does it? And so I think that if if you go into this without knowing all that, and you're uh not a seasoned founder who knows how hard things can get, I think that can be that can be a tricky combination.

Eddie Hertzman and I talk about this all the time because not only is fitness and wellness difficult, but doing B2B media in fitness, health, and wellness is like another layer of like stupidity, right? So we're like, we're like, what are we doing? Like what like why is why are we doing something like why not like we talk about unsexy businesses? Like, well, I just want an unsexy business, right? Like, I don't know.

Yeah, an HVAC, HVAC business, like helping people with this. It's like oof, great.

Self-storage, yeah, stuff like that. Or a pizza shop, even like the margins are huge, right? Um but I don't know why we drag ourselves through this to make it happen. I think it's just a love of the industry, and certainly it hasn't made me a rich man over the years. I have a lot of other friends who have chosen other paths and they've done extremely well financially. Uh, I'm fine, but you know, you you get the point, right? It's like you you you have there has to be something about why you're doing this that's more than just money, because there's a lot of ways to make money. Money is not actually difficult to make.

I think that's right. I I will add, listen, I don't want to be full doom and gloom. I am an optimist. I believe that the other thing that's happening in this space, though, is that you're making a bet that the world will be moving in a direction that is healthier. And then there might be a world in which some of the healthcare, insurance, pharmaceutical dollars might start flooding into this space. And so to me, it's actually, you know, listen, if you're gonna bet on AI, like maybe that's the right bet right now. But I think we're pretty up and coming. And there is a chance that this space could be very flush, very flooded in the not too distant future. And so it is a matter of grinding through these initial years of getting people to the point whereby they change their relationship to the health of their own body and they're starting to, you know, put dollars towards it, and and maybe we can find ways to get be a part of the healthcare system or have a different system or whatever it might be. But I I just think there's a bet that there could be a big spike potentially in the next couple of years. But who knows?

I dude, I agree. I mean, one of the reasons I'm still here is that I I think we're just seeing the start of a revolution. And, you know, I talked to uh have the honor and pleasure of talking to really a lot, a lot of smart people, Dr. Glory Winners from YMCA, Jeff Sweefle, Dr. Stacey Sims just had a conversation with her, and she's gives more of a global aspect. But the healthcare system's broken, and we've been talking about it for a long time, but now the pain that people are peeling feeling financially of the system is becoming overwhelmingly great. And that's when things change, right? It'll snap. And you're starting to see the demand from the ground up is like we want a better way, we need to take control of our health. How do we start doing that? The younger generations are investing a lot of time and energy and resources into doing that. So it may not happen like that, but it's gonna happen and it's happening now. And I think we're all in a very good place. We just have to be aware of there's a lot of factors working in here, right? And insurance companies are not gonna give up their right to win in this space easily. So we have to work out, and this is something that I have to credit Dr. Winters for is like we have to figure out to work how to work out, work within their incentives currently and understand the incentive models that they have, which isn't necessarily keeping people sick. They're incentivized to make money. So if they can charge a lot and not spend a lot on actual health care, they're gonna be happier. So it's like, well, how do we, you know, there's a lot of smart people working on this problem, right? I'm sure a lot of them are in your community. So I agree, man. And I guess anyone who's listening and we sound a little downer there for a second, like stay, this is the best time. Like I've been doing this for I've been in this industry for 17 years. This is the most hopeful and optimistic time I've been in this industry.

Absolutely. And and I think we're we don't know the path forward, but that's okay. And it's it's just a matter of everybody doing their part and being short. Like I say this all the time. We are brothers and sisters in arms in a battle right now to reclaim the health of the world, of the country, whatever you, whatever you want to use. And so the more that you think about it through that lens of not like, oh, that soul cycle just opened next door, like, no, actually, this is we're all it's an all boats rise. We're really trying to move the world in a healthier direction. You know, we have the ability to be competitors, but also be people who realize that it's it's a big pie and we're not even scratching the surface on it. And so if we can be complementary to each other and support each other, I think we have the best chance of actually moving the needle here. I mean, I don't know about you, but to me, the reason why I'm doing this work is I believe that health is it's a root cause of so much that's wrong in this world, right? If people were healthier mentally, physically, emotionally, I mean, I think a lot of the other stuff might just start to sort itself out a little bit. It and it's who knows? But to me, I enjoy working on root causes, and to me, health is the root cause, and there's lots of ways to attack it, and no one's gonna have the exact answer, but it feels like very, very good and important work to be doing.

Yeah, yeah. And also, I mean, if you look at the uh the capital markets, like there's a lot of very large private equity firms that are making big moves in fitness and wellness right now. Like that's something that, you know, in the last few years, I mean we've kind of seen dabbles of it, but we saw some major transactions happen this year, which are signaling like, okay, the big boys are seeing the opportunities here and uh they're moving in. So good or bad, that's happening, right? Like they're just you know, pay attention, I guess would be the only thing. I want to face forward for you a little bit here, Brian. So let's uh set the table in in 2030. I'm out in New York, we're hanging out, and you're like, dude, UGM's crushing it. It's expensive, it's it's gone past all of my expectations, right? What does that look like? What do you what do you envision in that moment?

Yeah, so uh it's crazy. My my son will be like 11 at that time. My my daughter, which is on the way, will be like nine. And so, you know, I very much see you meeting me in uh a little bit outside of New York in in uh a retreat space that's like who knows, maybe it's like the the other ship, the biggest other ship you've ever seen. And we're doing a WGM retreat there, and we're doing some programming, some connecting, some sweating, some sharing. And yeah, we're just talking about how, yeah, it's it's so cool that the the London hub is is really getting going and the UAE, and and we've got some people in Australia that are really keeping this going strong. And we're we're so psyched that all the discretionary income and insurance issues have kind of fallen by the wayside, and people are now have ability from their insurance company or the government to like spend on health and wellness, which which is allowing all of our businesses to grow. And some of the people that we you had on your podcast are now, you know, huge, huge deals, and and you know, we all still stay in touch and we all still stay grounded, and we all still support each other. And it's it's it's a group that's not thousands and thousands of people, but it's it's like a robust maybe a thousand people or so, and it's but it still feels intimate, and it's a space where you know we are connecting authentically on a regular cadence and supporting each other. And you know, maybe I've got some support too. I'm kind of doing this thing on my own right now, and so I've got a little little team who I trust and and that allows me to kind of get out there and and uh do the things that I love, which is moderating, support, you know, getting on calls with people, um, making connections, that sort of thing. So yeah, I think mostly it's just a space where we're connecting and having gratitude of of how we stuck with it and and where the industry is now.

Yeah, nice. So what I hear is potentially different chapters globally of WGM. Is that in more events, more in-person?

Yeah. I think maybe I'll pause the global. I mean, that's 10 years. 10 years is a long time, you know. But I said five.

So 20, 30. I thought you said 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alex, we can do 10. It's just it's just numbers, yeah.

Well, so maybe you know, I just listened to the guy who has a book next is easier than 2x. So so maybe that I'll apply that mindset. But yeah, I do think it's very much we've got our core. So basically, for those of you who don't know, WGEM has monthly virtual calls, quarterly in-person events, and a Slack community. And so what I see is maintaining our quarterly events, but making sure they're you know as great as they can be. I'm really proud of what they already are, having more touch points for in-person on a day-to-day. So, what I'm probably gonna pilot very soon is these like wellness Wednesdays every month or so, where like everybody in LA, there'll be like five slots at an other ship or uh similar type thing where people can connect and and you know, start to have more of the in-person touch points. And then, and then yeah, I think in in at some point I'll do a retreat where people can come and you know, we can dive deeper. And I just did this big hike with some members and it was like a full day. And like, wow, the depth that we got to in terms of how much space we gave ourselves to think big, to share ideas, to support each other. It was it was very cool. And so I I do see opportunities like that growing. But the biggest thing for me is just getting great people and adding value and maintaining the integrity of the community, which is that it is like people are excited to be a part of it. And so, so yeah, we'll see. We'll see where it all goes.

Yeah, right on it, man. I love it. Last question I always ask is, you know, what do you, as an industry, what do you what can we help you with? What is the challenge that you're facing right now within your business? You know, basically, if people are going to reach out, what would you want them to reach out to you about?

Yeah, so I think the two big things right now are just needing great people in the industry. I I know a good chunk, but if you're somebody who's building a health and wellness business and you resonate with the messaging of accomplished, kind, generous people getting together, supporting each other, it's kind of like, I mean, there's a lot of conferences out there. To me, I see these, we average about 80 people on our calls. And so I see these as mini conferences every month. So as opposed to going to a conference once a year, you get to actually stay connected with people and you know, not lose the thread, so to speak. And so, and it's also not a big time commitment. I think that's something that I'm really proud of as well. So I think, yeah, reach out if you're curious to chat with me. I think the other thing is I'm looking for speakers, I'm looking for people who can share their expertise with the community. Hey, I'm somebody who built this, that business, and I'm an expert in SEO and partnerships or influencers or events or B2B or whatever it might be. You know, come talk to our group like you did for 10, 15 minutes, you know, and I think if we can get great people doing that, I think that'd be sweet. And then, you know, I don't spend a lot of time on sponsors. We only have two sponsors, and so, you know, we've got TrueMed sponsors us, and you know, we've also got V, who's a really great sponsor, who I know you know doing some great stuff in the AI space. So, but if it, you know, I'm open to having another one. So if there's somebody who like wants to talk to this sort of industry in an authentic way and add value first, I'm always happy to have a chat on that front too. So I think those are the three things that are kind of top of mind for me right now.

Awesome, man. And uh, where would you like people to go as far as like reaching out to you or checking out the website and all those things?

Yeah, just uh check me out on LinkedIn, it's just my name, and then uh go to the website joinwgm.com, and uh that's where you can apply. It takes like a minute, but feel free to message me on LinkedIn or you know, just apply on the website. And yeah, appreciate you. This is really fun, man. Appreciate you having me on.

Yeah, it's been a pleasure, Brian. So we'll uh you and I will definitely be talking very soon, and uh, urge people to go check it out. I've I've got a lot of value out of it. So, ladies and gentlemen, Brian, Vaughn, Enkin.

Thank you. This is so fun. Appreciate it, man.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minus. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futurofitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.